A BO3 console is a bad idea. A heavy phaser array is a good one.
We have the 280 degree torp launcher.
We have quad cannons.
We need a heavy beam array. Galaxy-R and Fleet Galaxy-R only. Don't even let the dreadnought use it. Give it the damage of a beam bank with the arc of a beam array and make it one per ship, forward weapon only. Then BO1 and BO2 will work beautifully with it.
If you read my post two or three pages back you would see a proposal for one of those listed.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
A BO3 console is a bad idea. A heavy phaser array is a good one.
We have the 280 degree torp launcher.
We have quad cannons.
We need a heavy beam array. Galaxy-R and Fleet Galaxy-R only. Don't even let the dreadnought use it. Give it the damage of a beam bank with the arc of a beam array and make it one per ship, forward weapon only. Then BO1 and BO2 will work beautifully with it.
I like that idea!
It would be similar as the 180 degrees Quantum torpedo Launcher that came with the Regent Class. I also like its restriction so it's only useable for the Galaxy -R and Fleet -R (and the Mirror Galaxy, of course).
I think with the release of a 29th century timeship to STO (the wells Class), we can justifiably say that a Galaxy Class with more Firepower and versality wouldn't be a problem anymore.
Thank you for reading.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Oh, and PLEASE for the love of all things good, give cruisers a class specific weapon, like the Heavy Beam Array suggested so many times. Basically it's a beam array with the DPS of a DHC (so that there are still weapons that are just as strong) but with the firing arc of a beam array. If not the DPS of a DHC, at least something above the 250 at mk XII, since I believe the current is only about 201, and DHCs have a base of 280 at mk XII. OR if you aren't going to give such a high dps, at least make the modifiers higher, since atm, beam arrays have the lowest damage modifiers other than turrets. Actually I take that back, even turrets get a better modifier than beam arrays.
X Heavy Beam Array
(tier 5 cruiser only)
X array
Energy Damage
Firing arc: 235 Degrees (slight reduction due to higher energy levels being more difficult to be kept cohesive)
To Target: 250 X damage (250 dps)
To self: -10 energy when firing other weapons
To targets: X (proc based on energy type)
Passive Buffs (due to weapon type, like DHCs automatically get a +10% crit severity)
5% bonus accuracy
5% crit severity
1% crit chance
This weapon can only be mounted on tier 5 cruisers (fed or klingon, even though it might just be limited to fed ships, since klingons have DHCs, but since the klingons already complain that feds get everything, maybe it should be both factions) and SHOULD cover the damage disparity some, or at least reduce it. But basically it would be a slow firing weapon that fires once per second for a heavy beam hit. Combine that with BFAW and then life gets interesting, but after it wears off, it goes back to being slow firing. Lastly this weapon would have a damage modifier that is much MUCH higher than current beam arrays. Something close to DBBs, but not quite that high.
^
|
Your heavy Beam Array. Even though I do also like my idea of the buff aura that is also in that post.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
i love how often that heavy beam array idea comes up, but never together with the reasons why it would be gamebreaking.
The idea behind it, is simply because people seem to ignore the fact that cruisers are not intended as main damage dealers in this game.
Also the developers stated countles times that something you need to have, and that is obviously superior, is overpowered and needs to be nerfed. Such a weapon is a prime example of that.
Why would anybody not want that weapon on his cruiser? what is it's downside, appart from the 15 degrees less?
i love how often that heavy beam array idea comes up, but never together with the reasons why it would be gamebreaking.
The idea behind it, is simply because people seem to ignore the fact that cruisers are not intended as main damage dealers in this game.
Also the developers stated countles times that something you need to have, and that is obviously superior, is overpowered and needs to be nerfed. Such a weapon is a prime example of that.
Why would anybody not want that weapon on his cruiser? what is it's downside, appart from the 15 degrees less?
The downside is that cruisers are too passive to start with. They have too little offensive power compared to Escorts and Science ships.
The downside of that weapon would be that you could only use it on a galaxy Class, which is the MOST teethless starfleet th the game.
Where is the downside of the Ferengi D'Kora able to use Dual heavy cannons? Where is the big downside of the various Klingon Cruisers that are able to use Dual heavy Cannons?
Where is the downside of the Regent class having a Lt. Cmdr. Tactical?
Where is the downside of the Galaxy -X having a Spinal lance?
My point is all ships may have smaller or bigger downsides, if you read some of the previous pages of this thread you will see more than enough downsides we see on the Galaxy Class as it is in STO.
The Heavy Beam arrey we have been discussing would come with the proposed "Mirror Galaxy Class", which is essentially a Ferengi D'Kora with a Galaxy Class appearance.
This ship wouldn't have a "Battle Module 3000" but instead of this one Heavy Beam Array. so the Questioon is: Is this Heavy Beam Array more powerful than the Battle Module 3000? or is it the other way around?
So where is the downside of the Battle Module 3000?
If there is none, then the Heavy Beam array won't need a downside too.
Thank you for reading.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I really really like the "Mirror" idea and the heavy beam array. That wouldn't be too much to ask. ONE heavy beam array, forward only per Galaxy would be something unique and not gamebreaking at all.
With that, I think the ship wouldn't even need a D'Kora BOFF layout, though I wouldn't be against that - it's just that we have to keep the simple MMO-mechanic in mind and a cruiser shouldn't be a slow "escort/raptor". But combine the heavy beam array with a universal ensign (maybe one universal ensign for all cruisers) and I stop complaining
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
If it requires that I have to spend cash in the store, its a bad idea.
If it is only available to those that are willing to be suckered into spending cash in the store in the hopes that their gambling will pay out, its a bad idea.
If it is only available to a select version of said ship then it becomes a mandatory item for competitive play. AKA pay to win.
Putting it on the Galaxy R or Fleet Variant still means cash must be spent. P2W.
It also fails to address the base line of the core ship and the larger issues at hand within the entire fed cruiser line up.
You would also leave out in the cold the Galaxy X owners who either payed for the ship or recruited for the ship under the very guise that it would be a viable T5 competitor.
The very thing you are all asking for here!
Stop giving Cryptic and PWE your money your money!
Neither they nor the game are worth it. And so long as you keep talking with your wallet, they will continue to tune you out.
Its been 2+ years since these concerns have been brought up!
2+ years people! And what of actual substance is there to show for it?
Is the Klingon faction as fleshed out as the feds?
Any further development on meaningful ground combat, PvP on ground or in space?
Has the imbalance between ship classes and career choices been addressed even once?
How many ships have you bought? My total is 3, that's 75 dollars on ships alone.
I preordered the game 60 bucks.
Paid for a couple months as a subscriber. That's another 60 or so bucks.
Random items in the store is close to another 30.
My total is 225 for under 150 days. That's 1.50 a day. And I'm not even subscribing anymore! Nor were those 150 days or so even active as comparable to WoW.
And what did I get for my purchases made in faith that things could and eventually would be addressed?
How will a single heavy beam array wth beam bank stats outclass the Gal-X ? The ships are still different enough, the Gal-X-Abomination being a cannon cruiser and all.
And regarding the "to spend cash" issue: Well, absolutely NOTHING will be free anymore, that's "Free to Play". Anything new which comes to the game will have to be purchased, via cash or dilithium and as long as there is the latter there is no problem here.
If you ask how many ships I have bought the answer is 0. I don't spent any money on this game (I was a subscriber back then, I was disappointed and now I won't spent money on t ever again. I can grind Dilithium though while chatting with some people), as it's basic premise is not what I hoped it'll turn out to be.
But a completely overhauled Galaxy-Class would certainly earn the company money and the suggestions in this thread don't break anything, instead they bring back a ship which no one uses anymore to improve variety at end-game. How is that a bad thing?
All the issues you adressed aren't solved, no true KDF faction and all. But that'll never change, at least it is highly unlikely. So I'd happily buy the "mirror Gal" via Dil, circl her around for a bit and then the servers shutdown anyway XD
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
i love how often that heavy beam array idea comes up, but never together with the reasons why it would be gamebreaking.
The idea behind it, is simply because people seem to ignore the fact that cruisers are not intended as main damage dealers in this game.
Also the developers stated countles times that something you need to have, and that is obviously superior, is overpowered and needs to be nerfed. Such a weapon is a prime example of that.
Why would anybody not want that weapon on his cruiser? what is it's downside, appart from the 15 degrees less?
Load up your engineer and a Gal-R go to a elite STF and you will
Find the down side fast. You can't take anything out by
Yourself.
A Tac has damage buffs that help him increase damage, the
Engineer has one very weak buff for damage that's on
A 4 minute cooldown I believe, it's not much .
This is the Engineers ship , it's what he is soposed
To be I'n. The damage he does I'n this ship should
Put him as a equal I'n pve and pvp against a Tac I'n his ship
Or a science I'n there ship.
The characters I'n there respective ships must be balanced
I'n Dps I'n pve and pvp as a solid base to have fun
Game play
Any team or party based skills have to be factored I'n after
Balance is achieved so balence can be maintained.
Or you have a mess where no one but those with all the
Advantages want to play, kind like what we have right now
Once players find out the odds are stacked so much
Against them they simply refuse to even try a pvp
Match.
You cannot have a interdependent team where 2 parts
Of the team can't stand alone I'n pvp, that's why we have
Such a huge amount of Tac captions now.
The primary rule of any game master is to achieve balance
Between his players even though there classes are differnt.
There are many ways this can be done
The main character here that needs balancing is the Engineer
I'n his cruiser, not a Tac or Science I'n the cruiser but the
Engineer
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Firing arc: 235 Degrees (slight reduction due to higher energy levels being more difficult to be kept cohesive)
To Target: 250 X damage (250 dps)
To self: -10 energy when firing other weapons
To targets: X (proc based on energy type)
Passive Buffs (due to weapon type, like DHCs automatically get a +10% crit severity)
5% bonus accuracy
5% crit severity
1% crit chance
NO this idea is not for just the galaxy-R or galaxy-X. It's for ALL cruisers. And now to answer comments:
Why would anybody not want that weapon on his cruiser? what is it's downside, appart from the 15 degrees less?
Ok, this weapon actually has a reduction of 35 degrees, regular beam array is 270 I believe. Secondly, it's downside is that it is required that you have a tier 5 (vice admiral) cruiser. Those are not free. In fact the few in existence are actually moderately expensive. Lastly, I designed this weapon with the Odyssey class or Galaxy R in mind. You also threw in "simply because people seem to ignore the fact that cruisers are not intended as main damage dealers in this game.". A valid point. One I agree with. We may not be the primary damage dealers in this game, but at least give us a viable weapon that isn't the LOWEST POSSIBLE DPS WEAPON IN EXISTENCE. Beam Arrays have the lowest damage cap out of ANY weapon. Even turrets can go higher in DPS than beam arrays (CRFX + TTX makes a MEAN damage output on a turret). I say again, I am fine with not being the main damage dealer. I understand that escorts are supposed to do that. But don't leave cruisers behind with that mayhem.
All this weapon would do would be to make them not be JUST healers and JUST support. Giving them a weapon with a DPS that's higher that they can use effectively (since let's face it, their horrible turn rate makes them not able to really use much other than beam arrays, at least on the larger ones) would allow them to deal damage, without impugning on escorts. You will notice that my suggested weapon does not even come close to the DPS of a DHC (which I believe at mk XII is 280 or so), nor will it have the damage modifiers that DHCs have (which are the highest in the game, higher than DBBs and DCs which is why most escorts run at least 3 on their forward facing weapons), nor will it have the ability to be modified by something like CRF. If you say BFAW, look at how I had the damage equal it's dps. That means that it will fire ONE shot per salvo per array. And it will fire ONCE per second. So that's pew... pew... pew... Not pewpewpewpew... pewpewpewpew. So BFAW will have less of an effect on it. I took all of your arguments into mind when I designed it. It's basically designed to give cruisers back that constant pressure dps. Cuz getting hit once every second for a decent amount will force the target to actually take into account that extra damage, instead of ignoring it outright like they can now.
If I missed anything, please say so, and I shall answer it.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
adding a universal boff to the galaxy r and even the galaxy x, seems a much more logical solution to the problem they have.
I would even say, give the glalaxy X a ltdcmdr tac, and the galaxy r a ltcmdr sci. Atleast to me that is a much, much better and easier solution to improve thoise 2 ships, and not as gamebreaking as a "superbeam".
Basically you have a tank/support ship, that has a beam weapon that deals dmg close to a DC, with perfect modifiers and an arc covering 63% of all directions. combine that with beam overload2 and you will have oneshot targets everywhere.
If you do not want to play a healer/supporter only, don't use a galaxy. I can understand you like the design and everything, but ship is filling this role exactly. As i said above, i'm very much pro galaxy buff, but only the BOFF layout...not adding a superbeam array, that seems far superior than an actual ltcmdr tac boff slot.
and i don't know why they made klingon cruiser so much superior to those fed cruisers. Maybe to draw some more people on the klingon side?
I'm also very much in favour of giving all federation cruisers +2 turnrate and +5 inertia (or is that -5? whatever makes them better).
the devs intended the galaxy r to be a support tank, with intentionally low dps. if you want a dps cruiser you must part from the galaxy r, plenty of ships to choose from. Thats how it is intended to work. Adding a super beam would make other cruisers jobless.
anyway since i stopped counting the galaxy r/x threads appearing over the last year, and the devs didn't even forward a comment about the state of the galaxy r/x, i'm pretty sure nothing will change (ever), so arguing about it is more than pointless. I respect your opinions and ideas on how to buff the galaxyr/x, but i surely don't share them, and i wanted to point out the obvious flawes of the idea. Atleast what i think are flawes.
I understand what you are saying, and I agree with you on many points. But I still don't really like how cruisers are kinda tossed aside in favor of escorts in this game, but I also know that there have been dozens if not hundreds of threads on exactly that, and exactly nothing has changed except that a few more escorts got added and everything got a little tankier removing some of the escorts dependency on support craft resulting in guess what... cruisers are even more useless now. And in all honesty I don't really expect ANYTHING I posted in this thread to appear in game, or even get looked at, and even if it's looked at and the reasoning behind it read, I doubt that anything would even be considered.
Look at it this way... these threads are our way of venting so that we don't take it out on other players in game. I know my heavy beam array is a little too powerful considering the role that cruisers play in game. I also know that a lot of ideas are a little too powerful again considering the role that they play in game. But since I am frustrated by being almost useless (and yes... in stfs most cruisers are useless unfortunately, esp ones that AREN'T tac captains, and even in a lot of pvp, or what passes for pvp in this game). So what can you do? Sit and seethe? Did plenty of that, ran out of patience and now I post here. Soooo yeah... HEAVY BEAM ARRAY AND BUFF AURA FTW!!! (reference buff aura to post something or the other I think two pages back).
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Well, I'd like to add that if it would be added in the game it would make sense that only the Galaxy R and Oddy could use the HBA (maybe Star Cruisers too, but I forget about those all the time because... well, they are stupid ). Because these vessels have the power to support such strong array weaponry. The Assault Cruisers for example are *not* "better" than the Exploration/Star Cruisers, they are different kinds of vessels, overall more nimble design. Those shouldn't have those heavy beams, as well as the excelsior refit and not even the Gal X. All of those ships have more emphasis on punctual damage, the the phaser lance, cannon loadouts or torp spcialis(z?)ation. The Exploration and Star Cruisers are in it to constantly uphold decent damage to keep the aggro and are more dangerous to shields than hull. One heavy beam wouldn't turn anything upside down, it'd maybe just bring back some ships in endgame content which frankly almost nobody uses anymore.
It's hard to describe Trek ships in three static classes but I think these changes wouldn't put any of them on par with escorts nor would it render the assault cruisers obsolete.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
i love how often that heavy beam array idea comes up, but never together with the reasons why it would be gamebreaking.
The idea behind it, is simply because people seem to ignore the fact that cruisers are not intended as main damage dealers in this game.
Unless of course your on the KDF side where a few of their Cruiser certainly are Escort like in dealing damage PLUS, they have the agility to stay behind a Galaxy class!!!.... :rolleyes:
Unless of course your on the KDF side where a few of their Cruiser certainly are Escort like in dealing damage PLUS, they have the agility to stay behind a Galaxy class!!!.... :rolleyes:
yeah, i never understood that...seems to be the bait for people to play KDF. "look, we have cruiser that actually are viable damage dealers! Join the KDF!"
But the only cruiser to actually makes good use of DHC or DC in PVP is the vorcha...idealy the fleet vorcha. For PVE it really doesn't matter, because i can bring my dual cannons on target even with 6 degree turnrate.
but as i said above, imho, all fed cruiser (and even sci ships) should get atleast +1 turnrate and better inertia.
PS: when i was looking through the new time ships i noticed, that the mirror universe ship was able to use cannons...and the wells had, as any other sci ship sensor analasys and subsystem targeting.
Now this got me thinking...why not instead of a superbeam, give all fed cruisers sub system targeting. Or give the galaxy R/X sensor analasys and subsystem targeting.
No, i think a "Beam overload III" Console which is SOLEY for Galaxy Class ships would be much better IMHO.
It would reflect the huge Phaser Array of these ships.
We're talking about a console that comes with the "mirror Galaxy class", a ship that already has a Lt. Cmdr tactical BOFF station. (BOFF&Console Layout of the D'Kora)
And since this Mirror universe ship can't use Heavy cannons like the Ferengi D'Kora i think a "Beam Overload III" would be a sufficient tradeoff.
Or do you want to propose giving that ship TWO lt. Cmdr tactical BOFF slots?
[/I][/FONT]
I was suggesting going for ONE Lt Cmdr Boff slot. That way a person can BO3, FAW3, HYT3 CRF2 or CSV 2 to thier hearts content.
As far as this "Beam Overload" console on the Mirror Galaxy Class, I have been searching for the stats of the ship and have yet to find them. A console for just that ability seems pretty silly, why would I waste a console slot to just get BO3 and nothing else?
The downside is that cruisers are too passive to start with. They have too little offensive power compared to Escorts and Science ships.
The downside of that weapon would be that you could only use it on a galaxy Class, which is the MOST teethless starfleet th the game.
[/I][/FONT]
Science ships have to do with less hull and only six weapons to use, any increase in damage comes from science abilities, just like several abilites engie boffs have to increase damage
Where is the big downside of the various Klingon Cruisers that are able to use Dual heavy Cannons?
[/I][/FONT]
Most have only Lt. tactical boffs, pretty much limiting them to crf, csv1 (reducing the dhc/dc damage potential and spike damage time, unlike beam weapons who can cycle BO1 and BO2 around each other)
Where is the downside of the Regent class having a Lt. Cmdr. Tactical?
[/I][/FONT]
It's 40 inertia and lower turn rate (compared to the Excel) pretty much confines it to beam arrays for broadsiding, otherwise the Excel is the superior ship
I like that idea!
It would be similar as the 180 degrees Quantum torpedo Launcher that came with the Regent Class. I also like its restriction so it's only useable for the Galaxy -R and Fleet -R (and the Mirror Galaxy, of course).
I think with the release of a 29th century timeship to STO (the wells Class), we can justifiably say that a Galaxy Class with more Firepower and versality wouldn't be a problem anymore.
Thank you for reading.
Why limit it to the Galaxy hulls? Why not the Odyssey and the Sovereigns and Starcruisers? Heck even the Nebula? They have pretty crappy turn rates and cant carry dhc/dc
Well, I'd like to add that if it would be added in the game it would make sense that only the Galaxy R and Oddy could use the HBA (maybe Star Cruisers too, but I forget about those all the time because... well, they are stupid ).
Hence why I added in only TIER 5 cruisers can use it. I believe I highlighted it in blue XD. But that was my intent. That's why it wouldn't make cruisers OP, because it was ONLY FOR TIER 5 SIHPS. Hence why it's not overpowered. I tried to think of everythign I could when I designed it.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Hence why I added in only TIER 5 cruisers can use it. I believe I highlighted it in blue XD. But that was my intent. That's why it wouldn't make cruisers OP, because it was ONLY FOR TIER 5 SIHPS. Hence why it's not overpowered. I tried to think of everythign I could when I designed it.
That's right, but I think assault cruisers (and dread) shouldn't get it because they are due to better turn rate already fitted for a purpose whereas the broadsiding cruisers (exp, star) would be in need of the new weapon
Canonically it would also make sense but I think we can stop arguing with stuff like that, it won't ever matter in STO
But you say it's not overpowered because it's limited to T5. Does anyone play with lower tier ships outside RP/Fun groups? That's an honest question, I can't imagine that balancing would have to consider anything below T5.
With that said, veraticus is right. The whole ship-tier-system in STO is really dumb and should be scrapped entirely. But that would mean effort, time and change. Something that the developers won't invest, don't have and something (change) the playerbase would never accept
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Personaly with the size shuttle bay one was, I always thought the galaxy would make a perfectly reasonable carrier. Ad there are no engineering heavy carries on the fed side.
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
That's right, but I think assault cruisers (and dread) shouldn't get it because they are due to better turn rate already fitted for a purpose whereas the broadsiding cruisers (exp, star) would be in need of the new weapon
Lol... this weapon was designed specifically with Oddys, Fleet Stars, and Gal-R and Fleet Gal-R in mind. Also last I checked the AC was a tier 4 ship. And as for dreads, since they can run DHCs, I don't think they would need this weapon, so I agree with you there.
And yeah, the sad part is, no matter how much hot air, logic, sense, and balance we blow out our rears on this forum, NOTHING will change in game. ESPECIALLY anything that will take even the tiniest bit of dominant power away from those precious escorts and quite possibly add any REAL balance to the game XD.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Sorry, you are right, I thought T4 was captain-grade, mixed that up
Unfortunately you are also right that nothing will change, ever. STO isn't about changes but about new stuff.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Unfortunately you are also right that nothing will change, ever. STO isn't about changes but about new stuff.
New stuff. In lock boxes. That we have less than a 1% chance of getting the good stuffs (unless you really consider some of that garbage good... you know what they say, one man's junk is another man's treasure... in this case though, I think that the reason the tholians cardassians ferengi and future peeps put that stuff in the lock boxes was because it was so terrible they didn't want to look at it anymore so they put it in a box and gave it to npcs to carry around XD). Cuz we Chinese. And we need to make moar moneys.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Lol... this weapon was designed specifically with Oddys, Fleet Stars, and Gal-R and Fleet Gal-R in mind. Also last I checked the AC was a tier 4 ship. And as for dreads, since they can run DHCs, I don't think they would need this weapon, so I agree with you there.
And yeah, the sad part is, no matter how much hot air, logic, sense, and balance we blow out our rears on this forum, NOTHING will change in game. ESPECIALLY anything that will take even the tiniest bit of dominant power away from those precious escorts and quite possibly add any REAL balance to the game XD.
last i checked the AC was also t5, if you start with t1 at ltd level.
the tiers only count as a new one, if BOFF slots are added...and with all z-store ships thats not the case.
So t5 means rear admiral and up...12 Boff slots, z-store ships were generally considered t5.5 if they had a build in power.
Also all t5 ships are endgame ships, including patrol escort, assault escort, reccon vessel, deep space sci vessel, star cruiser assault cruiser.
Personaly with the size shuttle bay one was, I always thought the galaxy would make a perfectly reasonable carrier. Ad there are no engineering heavy carries on the fed side.
yeah, asked myself the same question. could be nice to have atleast one hangar on the galaxy r/x and maybe even on the operations oddy, since that one seems the least favourable of them all.
last i checked the AC was also t5, if you start with t1 at ltd level.
the tiers only count as a new one, if BOFF slots are added...and with all z-store ships thats not the case.
So t5 means rear admiral and up...12 Boff slots, z-store ships were generally considered t5.5 if they had a build in power.
Also all t5 ships are endgame ships, including patrol escort, assault escort, reccon vessel, deep space sci vessel, star cruiser assault cruiser.
yeah, asked myself the same question. could be nice to have atleast one hangar on the galaxy r/x and maybe even on the operations oddy, since that one seems the least favourable of them all.
Not sure about the dread. seems that third nacelle would get in the way. thats not to say it would be difficult to mod the saucer to convert it into a through deck carrier. If you had enterances on the port and starbord side you could have launch and reconery operations running concurently without having to share a bay door.
Give it a science slant and offer it as an alternative to the r and you may get some takers. For obvious reasons I don't think saucer sep should be an option, unless you commanded the saucer and the stardrive section became a pet. That would be kinda neat.
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
We are at the point of those stupid carriers again? What is it with those pet ships?
Yeah, make everything a carrier already. Every ship can launch shuttles, so we should all send our shuttle armadas into death...
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
We are at the point of those stupid carriers again? What is it with those pet ships?
Yeah, make everything a carrier already. Every ship can launch shuttles, so we should all send our shuttle armadas into death...
Actualy I alyays figured the federation would use more support craft VS fighters. Also I always wondered why there are no combat drones. They have the technology now to remotely pilot a drome thousands of miles away. Why can't they do it in the 25th century?
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Actualy I alyays figured the federation would use more support craft VS fighters. Also I always wondered why there are no combat drones. They have the technology now to remotely pilot a drome thousands of miles away. Why can't they do it in the 25th century?
Some middle eastern country took down a drone with fairly simple tech recently. They are mostly just useful at recon if the enemy has good tech.
Comments
If you read my post two or three pages back you would see a proposal for one of those listed.
I like that idea!
It would be similar as the 180 degrees Quantum torpedo Launcher that came with the Regent Class. I also like its restriction so it's only useable for the Galaxy -R and Fleet -R (and the Mirror Galaxy, of course).
I think with the release of a 29th century timeship to STO (the wells Class), we can justifiably say that a Galaxy Class with more Firepower and versality wouldn't be a problem anymore.
Thank you for reading.
^
|
Your heavy Beam Array. Even though I do also like my idea of the buff aura that is also in that post.
The idea behind it, is simply because people seem to ignore the fact that cruisers are not intended as main damage dealers in this game.
Also the developers stated countles times that something you need to have, and that is obviously superior, is overpowered and needs to be nerfed. Such a weapon is a prime example of that.
Why would anybody not want that weapon on his cruiser? what is it's downside, appart from the 15 degrees less?
The downside of that weapon would be that you could only use it on a galaxy Class, which is the MOST teethless starfleet th the game.
Where is the downside of the Ferengi D'Kora able to use Dual heavy cannons? Where is the big downside of the various Klingon Cruisers that are able to use Dual heavy Cannons?
Where is the downside of the Regent class having a Lt. Cmdr. Tactical?
Where is the downside of the Galaxy -X having a Spinal lance?
My point is all ships may have smaller or bigger downsides, if you read some of the previous pages of this thread you will see more than enough downsides we see on the Galaxy Class as it is in STO.
The Heavy Beam arrey we have been discussing would come with the proposed "Mirror Galaxy Class", which is essentially a Ferengi D'Kora with a Galaxy Class appearance.
This ship wouldn't have a "Battle Module 3000" but instead of this one Heavy Beam Array. so the Questioon is: Is this Heavy Beam Array more powerful than the Battle Module 3000? or is it the other way around?
So where is the downside of the Battle Module 3000?
If there is none, then the Heavy Beam array won't need a downside too.
Thank you for reading.
With that, I think the ship wouldn't even need a D'Kora BOFF layout, though I wouldn't be against that - it's just that we have to keep the simple MMO-mechanic in mind and a cruiser shouldn't be a slow "escort/raptor". But combine the heavy beam array with a universal ensign (maybe one universal ensign for all cruisers) and I stop complaining
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
If it is only available to those that are willing to be suckered into spending cash in the store in the hopes that their gambling will pay out, its a bad idea.
If it is only available to a select version of said ship then it becomes a mandatory item for competitive play. AKA pay to win.
Putting it on the Galaxy R or Fleet Variant still means cash must be spent. P2W.
It also fails to address the base line of the core ship and the larger issues at hand within the entire fed cruiser line up.
You would also leave out in the cold the Galaxy X owners who either payed for the ship or recruited for the ship under the very guise that it would be a viable T5 competitor.
The very thing you are all asking for here!
Stop giving Cryptic and PWE your money your money!
Neither they nor the game are worth it. And so long as you keep talking with your wallet, they will continue to tune you out.
Its been 2+ years since these concerns have been brought up!
2+ years people! And what of actual substance is there to show for it?
Is the Klingon faction as fleshed out as the feds?
Any further development on meaningful ground combat, PvP on ground or in space?
Has the imbalance between ship classes and career choices been addressed even once?
How many ships have you bought? My total is 3, that's 75 dollars on ships alone.
I preordered the game 60 bucks.
Paid for a couple months as a subscriber. That's another 60 or so bucks.
Random items in the store is close to another 30.
My total is 225 for under 150 days. That's 1.50 a day. And I'm not even subscribing anymore! Nor were those 150 days or so even active as comparable to WoW.
And what did I get for my purchases made in faith that things could and eventually would be addressed?
And regarding the "to spend cash" issue: Well, absolutely NOTHING will be free anymore, that's "Free to Play". Anything new which comes to the game will have to be purchased, via cash or dilithium and as long as there is the latter there is no problem here.
If you ask how many ships I have bought the answer is 0. I don't spent any money on this game (I was a subscriber back then, I was disappointed and now I won't spent money on t ever again. I can grind Dilithium though while chatting with some people), as it's basic premise is not what I hoped it'll turn out to be.
But a completely overhauled Galaxy-Class would certainly earn the company money and the suggestions in this thread don't break anything, instead they bring back a ship which no one uses anymore to improve variety at end-game. How is that a bad thing?
All the issues you adressed aren't solved, no true KDF faction and all. But that'll never change, at least it is highly unlikely. So I'd happily buy the "mirror Gal" via Dil, circl her around for a bit and then the servers shutdown anyway XD
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Load up your engineer and a Gal-R go to a elite STF and you will
Find the down side fast. You can't take anything out by
Yourself.
A Tac has damage buffs that help him increase damage, the
Engineer has one very weak buff for damage that's on
A 4 minute cooldown I believe, it's not much .
This is the Engineers ship , it's what he is soposed
To be I'n. The damage he does I'n this ship should
Put him as a equal I'n pve and pvp against a Tac I'n his ship
Or a science I'n there ship.
The characters I'n there respective ships must be balanced
I'n Dps I'n pve and pvp as a solid base to have fun
Game play
Any team or party based skills have to be factored I'n after
Balance is achieved so balence can be maintained.
Or you have a mess where no one but those with all the
Advantages want to play, kind like what we have right now
Once players find out the odds are stacked so much
Against them they simply refuse to even try a pvp
Match.
You cannot have a interdependent team where 2 parts
Of the team can't stand alone I'n pvp, that's why we have
Such a huge amount of Tac captions now.
The primary rule of any game master is to achieve balance
Between his players even though there classes are differnt.
There are many ways this can be done
The main character here that needs balancing is the Engineer
I'n his cruiser, not a Tac or Science I'n the cruiser but the
Engineer
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
X Heavy Beam Array
(tier 5 cruiser only)
X array
Energy Damage
Firing arc: 235 Degrees (slight reduction due to higher energy levels being more difficult to be kept cohesive)
To Target: 250 X damage (250 dps)
To self: -10 energy when firing other weapons
To targets: X (proc based on energy type)
Passive Buffs (due to weapon type, like DHCs automatically get a +10% crit severity)
5% bonus accuracy
5% crit severity
1% crit chance
NO this idea is not for just the galaxy-R or galaxy-X. It's for ALL cruisers. And now to answer comments:
Why would anybody not want that weapon on his cruiser? what is it's downside, appart from the 15 degrees less?
Ok, this weapon actually has a reduction of 35 degrees, regular beam array is 270 I believe. Secondly, it's downside is that it is required that you have a tier 5 (vice admiral) cruiser. Those are not free. In fact the few in existence are actually moderately expensive. Lastly, I designed this weapon with the Odyssey class or Galaxy R in mind. You also threw in "simply because people seem to ignore the fact that cruisers are not intended as main damage dealers in this game.". A valid point. One I agree with. We may not be the primary damage dealers in this game, but at least give us a viable weapon that isn't the LOWEST POSSIBLE DPS WEAPON IN EXISTENCE. Beam Arrays have the lowest damage cap out of ANY weapon. Even turrets can go higher in DPS than beam arrays (CRFX + TTX makes a MEAN damage output on a turret). I say again, I am fine with not being the main damage dealer. I understand that escorts are supposed to do that. But don't leave cruisers behind with that mayhem.
All this weapon would do would be to make them not be JUST healers and JUST support. Giving them a weapon with a DPS that's higher that they can use effectively (since let's face it, their horrible turn rate makes them not able to really use much other than beam arrays, at least on the larger ones) would allow them to deal damage, without impugning on escorts. You will notice that my suggested weapon does not even come close to the DPS of a DHC (which I believe at mk XII is 280 or so), nor will it have the damage modifiers that DHCs have (which are the highest in the game, higher than DBBs and DCs which is why most escorts run at least 3 on their forward facing weapons), nor will it have the ability to be modified by something like CRF. If you say BFAW, look at how I had the damage equal it's dps. That means that it will fire ONE shot per salvo per array. And it will fire ONCE per second. So that's pew... pew... pew... Not pewpewpewpew... pewpewpewpew. So BFAW will have less of an effect on it. I took all of your arguments into mind when I designed it. It's basically designed to give cruisers back that constant pressure dps. Cuz getting hit once every second for a decent amount will force the target to actually take into account that extra damage, instead of ignoring it outright like they can now.
If I missed anything, please say so, and I shall answer it.
I would even say, give the glalaxy X a ltdcmdr tac, and the galaxy r a ltcmdr sci. Atleast to me that is a much, much better and easier solution to improve thoise 2 ships, and not as gamebreaking as a "superbeam".
Basically you have a tank/support ship, that has a beam weapon that deals dmg close to a DC, with perfect modifiers and an arc covering 63% of all directions. combine that with beam overload2 and you will have oneshot targets everywhere.
If you do not want to play a healer/supporter only, don't use a galaxy. I can understand you like the design and everything, but ship is filling this role exactly. As i said above, i'm very much pro galaxy buff, but only the BOFF layout...not adding a superbeam array, that seems far superior than an actual ltcmdr tac boff slot.
and i don't know why they made klingon cruiser so much superior to those fed cruisers. Maybe to draw some more people on the klingon side?
I'm also very much in favour of giving all federation cruisers +2 turnrate and +5 inertia (or is that -5? whatever makes them better).
the devs intended the galaxy r to be a support tank, with intentionally low dps. if you want a dps cruiser you must part from the galaxy r, plenty of ships to choose from. Thats how it is intended to work. Adding a super beam would make other cruisers jobless.
anyway since i stopped counting the galaxy r/x threads appearing over the last year, and the devs didn't even forward a comment about the state of the galaxy r/x, i'm pretty sure nothing will change (ever), so arguing about it is more than pointless. I respect your opinions and ideas on how to buff the galaxyr/x, but i surely don't share them, and i wanted to point out the obvious flawes of the idea. Atleast what i think are flawes.
Look at it this way... these threads are our way of venting so that we don't take it out on other players in game. I know my heavy beam array is a little too powerful considering the role that cruisers play in game. I also know that a lot of ideas are a little too powerful again considering the role that they play in game. But since I am frustrated by being almost useless (and yes... in stfs most cruisers are useless unfortunately, esp ones that AREN'T tac captains, and even in a lot of pvp, or what passes for pvp in this game). So what can you do? Sit and seethe? Did plenty of that, ran out of patience and now I post here. Soooo yeah... HEAVY BEAM ARRAY AND BUFF AURA FTW!!! (reference buff aura to post something or the other I think two pages back).
It's hard to describe Trek ships in three static classes but I think these changes wouldn't put any of them on par with escorts nor would it render the assault cruisers obsolete.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Unless of course your on the KDF side where a few of their Cruiser certainly are Escort like in dealing damage PLUS, they have the agility to stay behind a Galaxy class!!!.... :rolleyes:
yeah, i never understood that...seems to be the bait for people to play KDF. "look, we have cruiser that actually are viable damage dealers! Join the KDF!"
But the only cruiser to actually makes good use of DHC or DC in PVP is the vorcha...idealy the fleet vorcha. For PVE it really doesn't matter, because i can bring my dual cannons on target even with 6 degree turnrate.
but as i said above, imho, all fed cruiser (and even sci ships) should get atleast +1 turnrate and better inertia.
PS: when i was looking through the new time ships i noticed, that the mirror universe ship was able to use cannons...and the wells had, as any other sci ship sensor analasys and subsystem targeting.
Now this got me thinking...why not instead of a superbeam, give all fed cruisers sub system targeting. Or give the galaxy R/X sensor analasys and subsystem targeting.
I was suggesting going for ONE Lt Cmdr Boff slot. That way a person can BO3, FAW3, HYT3 CRF2 or CSV 2 to thier hearts content.
As far as this "Beam Overload" console on the Mirror Galaxy Class, I have been searching for the stats of the ship and have yet to find them. A console for just that ability seems pretty silly, why would I waste a console slot to just get BO3 and nothing else?
Science ships have to do with less hull and only six weapons to use, any increase in damage comes from science abilities, just like several abilites engie boffs have to increase damage
It has only a little bit more hull than the Armitage class, which is an escort
Most have only Lt. tactical boffs, pretty much limiting them to crf, csv1 (reducing the dhc/dc damage potential and spike damage time, unlike beam weapons who can cycle BO1 and BO2 around each other)
It's 40 inertia and lower turn rate (compared to the Excel) pretty much confines it to beam arrays for broadsiding, otherwise the Excel is the superior ship
A crappy firing arc, 3 minute cooldown, and the enemy has to have its shields down to do pretty much any damage
Why limit it to the Galaxy hulls? Why not the Odyssey and the Sovereigns and Starcruisers? Heck even the Nebula? They have pretty crappy turn rates and cant carry dhc/dc
Hence why I added in only TIER 5 cruisers can use it. I believe I highlighted it in blue XD. But that was my intent. That's why it wouldn't make cruisers OP, because it was ONLY FOR TIER 5 SIHPS. Hence why it's not overpowered. I tried to think of everythign I could when I designed it.
Escorts are overpowered.
Cruisers are nominal to underpowered.
Science vessels are...
That's right, but I think assault cruisers (and dread) shouldn't get it because they are due to better turn rate already fitted for a purpose whereas the broadsiding cruisers (exp, star) would be in need of the new weapon
Canonically it would also make sense but I think we can stop arguing with stuff like that, it won't ever matter in STO
But you say it's not overpowered because it's limited to T5. Does anyone play with lower tier ships outside RP/Fun groups? That's an honest question, I can't imagine that balancing would have to consider anything below T5.
With that said, veraticus is right. The whole ship-tier-system in STO is really dumb and should be scrapped entirely. But that would mean effort, time and change. Something that the developers won't invest, don't have and something (change) the playerbase would never accept
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Lol... this weapon was designed specifically with Oddys, Fleet Stars, and Gal-R and Fleet Gal-R in mind. Also last I checked the AC was a tier 4 ship. And as for dreads, since they can run DHCs, I don't think they would need this weapon, so I agree with you there.
And yeah, the sad part is, no matter how much hot air, logic, sense, and balance we blow out our rears on this forum, NOTHING will change in game. ESPECIALLY anything that will take even the tiniest bit of dominant power away from those precious escorts and quite possibly add any REAL balance to the game XD.
Unfortunately you are also right that nothing will change, ever. STO isn't about changes but about new stuff.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
S'all g, everyone messes up every so often.
New stuff. In lock boxes. That we have less than a 1% chance of getting the good stuffs (unless you really consider some of that garbage good... you know what they say, one man's junk is another man's treasure... in this case though, I think that the reason the tholians cardassians ferengi and future peeps put that stuff in the lock boxes was because it was so terrible they didn't want to look at it anymore so they put it in a box and gave it to npcs to carry around XD). Cuz we Chinese. And we need to make moar moneys.
last i checked the AC was also t5, if you start with t1 at ltd level.
the tiers only count as a new one, if BOFF slots are added...and with all z-store ships thats not the case.
So t5 means rear admiral and up...12 Boff slots, z-store ships were generally considered t5.5 if they had a build in power.
Also all t5 ships are endgame ships, including patrol escort, assault escort, reccon vessel, deep space sci vessel, star cruiser assault cruiser.
yeah, asked myself the same question. could be nice to have atleast one hangar on the galaxy r/x and maybe even on the operations oddy, since that one seems the least favourable of them all.
Not sure about the dread. seems that third nacelle would get in the way. thats not to say it would be difficult to mod the saucer to convert it into a through deck carrier. If you had enterances on the port and starbord side you could have launch and reconery operations running concurently without having to share a bay door.
Give it a science slant and offer it as an alternative to the r and you may get some takers. For obvious reasons I don't think saucer sep should be an option, unless you commanded the saucer and the stardrive section became a pet. That would be kinda neat.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Yeah, make everything a carrier already. Every ship can launch shuttles, so we should all send our shuttle armadas into death...
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Actualy I alyays figured the federation would use more support craft VS fighters. Also I always wondered why there are no combat drones. They have the technology now to remotely pilot a drome thousands of miles away. Why can't they do it in the 25th century?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Some middle eastern country took down a drone with fairly simple tech recently. They are mostly just useful at recon if the enemy has good tech.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CaptainCidStorm