Why not just buy a Regent class? You get 99.9% of what you are asking for.
because this thread is actually all about the style of the galaxy. They love that ship so much they rather cry for some buffs for it a thousand years rather than just change the ship.
And i actually have sympathy with that, because you shouldn't be forced into another ship just because the one you like most is total TRIBBLE.
because this thread is actually all about the style of the galaxy. They love that ship so much they rather cry for some buffs for it a thousand years rather than just change the ship.
And i actually have sympathy with that, because you shouldn't be forced into another ship just because the one you like most is total TRIBBLE.
I understand and appreciate that, but when you want what pretty much is the same as another ship class, get that ship class!
I HATE the look of the Garumba and prefer the looks of the "Raptor" classes, but I still use the Garumba because its an awesome ship. I don't ask to have a Raptor that mirrors the ship.
I like the look of the MVAM much better than the Dervish variants (old "fleet escort"), but dont like that it doesn't have enough engi' boff slots, but I don't ask that they change the MVAM to have more engie' slots.
The Galaxy-R class was (before the introduction of the Ody') the toughest ship in the game to kill because of its boff layout. Its turn rate is TRIBBLE and its beginning dps is low, but engie boff abilities can fix that while still maintaining its tough-as-nails demeanor. Its not a battleship (never was supposed to be, even in the show).
If the look of the ship is that important, experiment with the ship to find a way to make it work, just dont expect it to be a dps machine with maneuverability on par with ships 1/2 - 2/3 of its size (which many of those are still cruisers).
Why not just buy a Regent class? You get 99.9% of what you are asking for.
Except that it isn't a Galaxy Class.
While you may seem to look first at a ships stats, Hull Hp, BOFF layout, maneuverability and Console layout, i look at ships at how they are in "real" Star Trek and try to make them like that in STO.
I personally don't give anything about cryptics idea how a Star Trek ship should be like. (because they are 99% wrong)
That's the Point of this thread, to discuss ideas of how to CHANGE what the devs deliberately made wrong, not to whine about our favourite ship being just bad. (that's a fine but important difference)
As much as i have seen so far, you just want to bash other peoples ideas because you apparently seem to think the Galaxy Class is allright as it is, but it isn't.
For some of us, the SHIP is what we see when we play this game, not just a number of stats and performance features. We want to fly the ship as it is supposed to be.
If that wheren't the case i would certainly fly Klingon ships.
I have the regent class but i just can't stand the sovereign like super long nacelles. I tride to get accustomed to it, but it just doesn't work for me.
I just find them repulsive ugly. In general i think the sovereign style looks just cheap. For me it looks like a streched constitution class.
Thank you for reading.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
in case of the galaxy it is true, that the ship needs another refit. The chance was there when the fleetbase was introduced. But that ship is not what anybody expected or wanted. srsly that ship should have had atleast a universal ensign slot.
But thats the case with most fleet ships, which is really sad...they can't compete with each other...some are just the obvious better choice.
While you may seem to look first at a ships stats, Hull Hp, BOFF layout, maneuverability and Console layout, i look at ships at how they are in "real" Star Trek and try to make them like that in STO.
I personally don't give anything about cryptics idea how a Star Trek ship should be like. (because they are 99% wrong)
That's the Point of this thread, to discuss ideas of how to CHANGE what the devs deliberately made wrong, not to whine about our favourite ship being just bad. (that's a fine but important difference)
As much as i have seen so far, you just want to bash other peoples ideas because you apparently seem to think the Galaxy Class is allright as it is, but it isn't.
For some of us, the SHIP is what we see when we play this game, not just a number of stats and performance features. We want to fly the ship as it is supposed to be.
If that wheren't the case i would certainly fly Klingon ships.
I have the regent class but i just can't stand the sovereign like super long nacelles. I tride to get accustomed to it, but it just doesn't work for me.
I just find them repulsive ugly. In general i think the sovereign style looks just cheap. For me it looks like a streched constitution class.
Thank you for reading.
I'm, not here to bash anyone's ideas, just to point out the obvious, there are other choices out there, that and this notion based on the T.V. show and the movies, that the Galaxy is some sort of battleship, when it isn't. Its a "steady Eddie" exploration cruiser. It was built at a time of Federation peace and exploration was the order of the day. The Klinks' were our friends (heck , early episodes, Klingon ships flew the Federation flag in the background), only a minute "percentage of the Galaxy had been explored" and of the 1,000 crew compliment, much of them were family members to keep the crew members happy. Heck, enlisted personnel had their own rooms and not bunked atop of each other.
Since this thread went on full tilt, I have been using my Gal-X on my engineer to get some sort of take on what everyone is saying here (I have the Gal-R on my tactical as a freebie, but purchased the X through the C-Store). By taking away the consideration of the lance, the ensign tactical (in place of an ensign engie) and the third tac console (I dont use the cloak console), the hull is still a "steady Eddie" that lays out its damage over time, instead of spike damage, and can do things to reduce the opponents ability to fight, keep itself eternally alive (and others) and even increase the Galaxies dps.
Try using the 180 torp from the Regent you bought and a few other weapons combos and it will be a solid cruiser. It will never be a "spike damage" ship, nor is any other cruiser that the Feds have (save a well placed decloaking volley from a DBB/DHC Gal-X).
As far as the Sovy being ugly and looking like a stretched Constitution class, the Galaxy is a Connie that has been pulled width wise and flattened somewhat instead of stretched.
in case of the galaxy it is true, that the ship needs another refit. The chance was there when the fleetbase was introduced. But that ship is not what anybody expected or wanted. srsly that ship should have had atleast a universal ensign slot.
But thats the case with most fleet ships, which is really sad...they can't compete with each other...some are just the obvious better choice.
I don't know about that, that hull is a pretty darn good increase in damage. If I was more the 6xBA and 2xtorp sort of player (which some players are), that ship would be a pretty serious consideration, especially over the Odysseys out there. With 5 engie consoles, a person could just imagine hearing the enemies weapons bouncing off of the hull.
As of yet, there aren't any fleet cruisers that I am all about. The sci has its Neb' and the Tact have the Heavy Escort Carrier (even though most are going for the fleet defiant). I may just get the Fleet Galaxy for stfs.
I'm, not here to bash anyone's ideas, just to point out the obvious, there are other choices out there, that and this notion based on the T.V. show and the movies, that the Galaxy is some sort of battleship, when it isn't. Its a "steady Eddie" exploration cruiser.
Since this thread went on full tilt, I have been using my Gal-X on my engineer to get some sort of take on what everyone is saying here (I have the Gal-R on my tactical as a freebie, but purchased the X through the C-Store). By taking away the consideration of the lance, the ensign tactical (in place of an ensign engie) and the third tac console (I dont use the cloak console), the hull is still a "steady Eddie" that lays out its damage over time, instead of spike damage, and can do things to reduce the opponents ability to fight, keep itself eternally alive (and others) and even increase the Galaxies dps.
Try using the 180 torp from the Regent you bought and a few other weapons combos and it will be a solid cruiser. It will never be a "spike damage" ship, nor is any other cruiser that the Feds have (save a well placed decloaking volley from a DBB/DHC Gal-X).
As far as the Sovy being ugly and looking like a stretched Constitution class, the Galaxy is a Connie that has been pulled width wise and flattened somewhat instead of stretched.
No (STO) Federation Cruiser is a spike damage ship, not even the Regent. The point is that the Galaxy has the LOWEST damage potential of all Cruisers in the Game!
All it's surviability doesn't help making this ship even remotely fun to fly, it's just too passive.
I use the Galaxy -R with one of my Tac. Captains myself and i use the 180 degrees Torpedo launcher from the Regent, but it's not nearly like the Regent or any other ship when it comes to Firepower. Which is just embarassing.
Of course if you ignore other ships completely the Galaxy Class (in STO) could be a passable ship, but that counts for any other ship too. My point is the galaxy Class as it is in the game is just not nearly like the ship in the show and compared to other cruisers just a joke. (Not to mention escorts)
In PvE you NEVER need the huge amount of Engineering slots this ship has. In PvP there is no point in surviving if your enemy can survive YOUR attack just as well or even better.
All the Engineering BOFF stations don't help to make this ship having more punch. Making the newest incarnation (the Fleet Galaxy) even more passive doesn't help anyone. But i really don't care about the Fleet Galaxy, because my fleet will never get it and it is nothing i would regret not having.
When i bought the Galaxy -R this ship was the biggest dissappointment i had playing STO (and believe me there where a LOT of dissappointments).
If you had read the previous pages you would know by now that the Galaxy Class (or any other Starfleet cruiser) never where inteded to do "tickle" their enemies to death. Their weapons where made to release huge amounts of energy at once, not by doing some sort of constant fire. That's just cryptics idea of how Cruisers should work.
Especially the Galaxy Class never was a "Steady eddie", it was a ship that needed to be able to take care for itself, when operating far away from any other Starfleet ship. That is the big difference between the Galaxy Class and ANY other starfleet ship. It should be able to adopt to a board range of mission, even tactical ones in times of war.
To reflect the the Galaxy Class should have been a bit like a Federation counterpart to the Klingon B'rel Class. Highly universal BOFF stations, but much less maneuverability and speed. But as always people in charge of a Star Trek product rarely know what they are doing, lol.
Instead of misusing the Galaxy as a "total" tank the devs should have used one of their own designs for that role.
Now, there is not much anyone can (or is willing to) do something about it. The only hope i have is the release some special, more "realistic" version of the Galaxy class in the far future. (Or wait for another game, made by people who care about star trek in the far future.)
What this ship needs is at least a universal Lt. in exchange of it's science Lt. Plus a universal console in exchange of one of its science consoles.
About the look of Sov. and Galaxy: Fo me, the Galaxy just looks better because it's lines are much more fluid and elegant, the Sovereign, Akira, norway and sabre look much too angular and especially the soverign looks too much like a skeleton of a ship, it's too much a contrast to other Starfleet ships prior ST:8. But there's no accounting for taste.
Thank you for reading.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
About the look of Sov. and Galaxy: For me, the Galaxy just looks better because it's lines are much more fluid and elegant, the Sovereign, Akira, norway and sabre look much too angular and especially the soverign looks too much like a skeleton of a ship, it's too much a contrast to other Starfleet ships prior ST:8. But there's no accounting for taste.Thank you for reading.
You mean like the Excelsior... one of Starfleets most successful and iconic designs and in my personal opinion their prettiest.
You mean like the Excelsior... one of Starfleets most successful and iconic designs and in my personal opinion their prettiest.
To risk of being off topic, especially the Excelsior i hated that ship since i first saw it in ST III. It looks like a caricature of a starfleet ship. It's proportions are way to extreme (Nacelles are too long, Hull way too bulky and too big, Saucer way too tiny).
I was glad as they introduced the Galaxy and later the Ambassador which where much better looking ships. These ships do emanate a certain kind of elegance and grandness which ships like the Excelsior and Sovereign will never have.
The only reason this ship was so "successful" was because the producers where to lazy and to stingy to introduce another new and more advanced design.
I really hoped they left behind ship designs like that in the TNG era, but the sovereign was a huge disappointment. It was like two steps back in ship design, the designer should be shot even today for it, lol.
I'm happy for you that you like the Excelsior (which is a fine ship in STO), but i find it a shame this old bucket performs much better than the Galaxy to be honest.
I stopped to discuss about things like that for a long time, discussions about taste lead to nothing.
Sorry for being off topic.
Thank you for reading.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I'm, not here to bash anyone's ideas, just to point out the obvious, there are other choices out there, that and this notion based on the T.V. show and the movies, that the Galaxy is some sort of battleship, when it isn't. Its a "steady Eddie" exploration cruiser. It was built at a time of Federation peace and exploration was the order of the day. The Klinks' were our friends (heck , early episodes, Klingon ships flew the Federation flag in the background), only a minute "percentage of the Galaxy had been explored" and of the 1,000 crew compliment, much of them were family members to keep the crew members happy. Heck, enlisted personnel had their own rooms and not bunked atop of each other.
Since this thread went on full tilt, I have been using my Gal-X on my engineer to get some sort of take on what everyone is saying here (I have the Gal-R on my tactical as a freebie, but purchased the X through the C-Store). By taking away the consideration of the lance, the ensign tactical (in place of an ensign engie) and the third tac console (I dont use the cloak console), the hull is still a "steady Eddie" that lays out its damage over time, instead of spike damage, and can do things to reduce the opponents ability to fight, keep itself eternally alive (and others) and even increase the Galaxies dps.
Try using the 180 torp from the Regent you bought and a few other weapons combos and it will be a solid cruiser. It will never be a "spike damage" ship, nor is any other cruiser that the Feds have (save a well placed decloaking volley from a DBB/DHC Gal-X).
As far as the Sovy being ugly and looking like a stretched Constitution class, the Galaxy is a Connie that has been pulled width wise and flattened somewhat instead of stretched.
its a battleship in a strictly military sense. but when its not battling its the largest and most well equipped mobile laboratory in the federation.
there was a full blown cardasian war during most of the galaxy class's development, right after the cease fire cardasians were introduced in tng season 5 i think. soon after the DMZ was negotiated, DS9 started.
prior to sisco's position on the saratoga, he served under laton in what was refereed to as the latest tzenkethi war. that was in at least the late 2350s too. also, there was a conflict with the tholians that was so heated that an entire starbase was destroyed, riker's dad being the only survivor.
so..... the galaxy being designed in and for peace time is BULL****. once several galaxy class and many more nebula class were launched, notice how it didn't take long for that cardasian war to end...
in game, the galaxy's station setup is an extreme hindrance in its ability to deal damage, AND tank and heal. you could do SOOOOO much more with a sci ensign with ether ST, HE, or TSS vs another ET1 or EPtX1.
its made even worse now with doffs. the damage control doffs that can cut 4 EPtX abilities down to 2, and the technician doffs that lower all cooldowns removing the need for doubling up powers are all but unusable on the galaxy, you would have completely redundant and useless station powers in place of a hugely useful TT1, FAW1, HE1, TSS1, and all numerous other tac and sci abilities.
the galaxy class's disadvantages are so compounded and numerous that im convinced their metaphysical weight is why its turn rate and inertia are so bad. it fails in every way it is possible for a ship to fail.
its a battleship in a strictly military sense. but when its not battling its the largest and most well equipped mobile laboratory in the federation.
there was a full blown cardasian war during most of the galaxy class's development, right after the cease fire cardasians were introduced in tng season 5 i think. soon after the DMZ was negotiated, DS9 started.
prior to sisco's position on the saratoga, he served under laton in what was refereed to as the latest tzenkethi war. that was in at least the late 2350s too. also, there was a conflict with the tholians that was so heated that an entire starbase was destroyed, riker's dad being the only survivor.
so..... the galaxy being designed in and for peace time is BULL****. once several galaxy class and many more nebula class were launched, notice how it didn't take long for that cardasian war to end...
in game, the galaxy's station setup is an extreme hindrance in its ability to deal damage, AND tank and heal. you could do SOOOOO much more with a sci ensign with ether ST, HE, or TSS vs another ET1 or EPtX1.
its made even worse now with doffs. the damage control doffs that can cut 4 EPtX abilities down to 2, and the technician doffs that lower all cooldowns removing the need for doubling up powers are all but unusable on the galaxy, you would have completely redundant and useless station powers in place of a hugely useful TT1, FAW1, HE1, TSS1, and all numerous other tac and sci abilities.
the galaxy class's disadvantages are so compounded and numerous that im convinced their metaphysical weight is why its turn rate and inertia are so bad. it fails in every way it is possible for a ship to fail.
yeah, totally agree. But some seem to confuse the problem this one ship has, that cruisers in general can't deal any dmg. And thats just not right.
Galaxy is TRIBBLE for this game because of it's over specialization. to be an effective tank/support both PVE and PVP you need a max of 4 or 5 engi BOFF slots and 2-3 sci boff slots. leaving 4-6 for tac boffs. look at cruisers that actually have this layout and you realize they perform superb in this game.
myself i was allways pro universal ensign and or sci ltdcmdr for this ship. Even a sensor analasys wouldn't be off balance since it only has 2 tac console slots.
a galaxy sci cruiser if you want...not unlike the nebula, which is the smaller more sci vessel oriented version of basically the same design idea.
its a battleship in a strictly military sense. but when its not battling its the largest and most well equipped mobile laboratory in the federation.
there was a full blown cardasian war during most of the galaxy class's development, right after the cease fire cardasians were introduced in tng season 5 i think. soon after the DMZ was negotiated, DS9 started.
prior to sisco's position on the saratoga, he served under laton in what was refereed to as the latest tzenkethi war. that was in at least the late 2350s too. also, there was a conflict with the tholians that was so heated that an entire starbase was destroyed, riker's dad being the only survivor.
so..... the galaxy being designed in and for peace time is BULL****. once several galaxy class and many more nebula class were launched, notice how it didn't take long for that cardasian war to end...
in game, the galaxy's station setup is an extreme hindrance in its ability to deal damage, AND tank and heal. you could do SOOOOO much more with a sci ensign with ether ST, HE, or TSS vs another ET1 or EPtX1.
its made even worse now with doffs. the damage control doffs that can cut 4 EPtX abilities down to 2, and the technician doffs that lower all cooldowns removing the need for doubling up powers are all but unusable on the galaxy, you would have completely redundant and useless station powers in place of a hugely useful TT1, FAW1, HE1, TSS1, and all numerous other tac and sci abilities.
the galaxy class's disadvantages are so compounded and numerous that im convinced their metaphysical weight is why its turn rate and inertia are so bad. it fails in every way it is possible for a ship to fail.
The Galaxy was always an exploration vessel, NOT a battleship. I know you (and others) in your mind and heart of hearts want it to be, but its not. If you want more of a battleship, get the Gal-X (which amazingly looks like a Galaxy class, go figure...) If you want a turning cruiser, get an Excel'.
Battleships have task forces attached to them in everyday operations, not out exploring on their own.
The Nebula didn't partake in the Cardassian war (unless some non-cannon book threw one out there) it was a post Wolf 359 ship and was originally designed in response to the Enterprises first encounter with the Borg.
The Galaxy class was new when the Enterprise was launched, it wasn't in the Cardi' war (unless some non cannon book threw one out there).
As far as engi abilities, there are plenty of engi boff skills that arent linked to ept*** or ET that can be used.
The Nebula didn't partake in the Cardassian war (unless some non-cannon book threw one out there) it was a post Wolf 359 ship and was originally designed in response to the Enterprises first encounter with the Borg.
Actually the Nebular class was first designed to be produced alongside the Galaxy and the two ships were supposed to travel together in-case of saucer separation being required. the plan was that should the galaxy class separate its saucer from the stardrive then the Nebula would pick up the saucer and warp away, it was literally a warp engine without a ship.
They then decided due to the circumstances that was a waste of resources and therefore built the saucer into the drive and made them science ships
No (STO) Federation Cruiser is a spike damage ship, not even the Regent. The point is that the Galaxy has the LOWEST damage potential of all Cruisers in the Game!
All it's surviability doesn't help making this ship even remotely fun to fly, it's just too passive.
I use the Galaxy -R with one of my Tac. Captains myself and i use the 180 degrees Torpedo launcher from the Regent, but it's not nearly like the Regent or any other ship when it comes to Firepower. Which is just embarassing.
Of course if you ignore other ships completely the Galaxy Class (in STO) could be a passable ship, but that counts for any other ship too. My point is the galaxy Class as it is in the game is just not nearly like the ship in the show and compared to other cruisers just a joke. (Not to mention escorts)
In PvE you NEVER need the huge amount of Engineering slots this ship has. In PvP there is no point in surviving if your enemy can survive YOUR attack just as well or even better.
All the Engineering BOFF stations don't help to make this ship having more punch. Making the newest incarnation (the Fleet Galaxy) even more passive doesn't help anyone. But i really don't care about the Fleet Galaxy, because my fleet will never get it and it is nothing i would regret not having.
When i bought the Galaxy -R this ship was the biggest dissappointment i had playing STO (and believe me there where a LOT of dissappointments).
If you had read the previous pages you would know by now that the Galaxy Class (or any other Starfleet cruiser) never where inteded to do "tickle" their enemies to death. Their weapons where made to release huge amounts of energy at once, not by doing some sort of constant fire. That's just cryptics idea of how Cruisers should work.
Especially the Galaxy Class never was a "Steady eddie", it was a ship that needed to be able to take care for itself, when operating far away from any other Starfleet ship. That is the big difference between the Galaxy Class and ANY other starfleet ship. It should be able to adopt to a board range of mission, even tactical ones in times of war.
To reflect the the Galaxy Class should have been a bit like a Federation counterpart to the Klingon B'rel Class. Highly universal BOFF stations, but much less maneuverability and speed. But as always people in charge of a Star Trek product rarely know what they are doing, lol.
Instead of misusing the Galaxy as a "total" tank the devs should have used one of their own designs for that role.
Now, there is not much anyone can (or is willing to) do something about it. The only hope i have is the release some special, more "realistic" version of the Galaxy class in the far future. (Or wait for another game, made by people who care about star trek in the far future.)
What this ship needs is at least a universal Lt. in exchange of it's science Lt. Plus a universal console in exchange of one of its science consoles.
About the look of Sov. and Galaxy: Fo me, the Galaxy just looks better because it's lines are much more fluid and elegant, the Sovereign, Akira, norway and sabre look much too angular and especially the soverign looks too much like a skeleton of a ship, it's too much a contrast to other Starfleet ships prior ST:8. But there's no accounting for taste.
Thank you for reading.
There always is going to be a ship with the lowest damage potential, your beloved Galaxy is in that barrel. As far as taking care of itself, it wasn't supposed to be looking for other warships to fight. Also that Galaxy-R has the same amount of tactical boff slots as the Star Cruiser. Maybe what Cryptic should do is design a ship that has even less damage potential than the Galaxy. Would that make you happy? Heck, it'd be a great excuse to come out with the Ambassador class.
As far as neutering science boffs and consoles so you can get more Tactical spots, its an Exploration cruiser which uses science to do research, kinda negates the whole premise behin TNG. Plus it was dumb enough when they made the Regents science spot a universal, every ships should have at least an ensign of all three types of boffs. If you want an ensign science and an ensign universal, that's one thing, but missing a path completely is nonfunctional.
In regards to the looks, at least you get to look at your favorite ship at endplay, think of all the TOS and Movie Connie fans that wave good-bye to their "best looking" ships after Lt.
As far as PvE and engie boffs, I use them all of the time in STF's, if not for me than my teammates.
Maybe the tree you need to be barking is to have more relevant engineer boff skills when it comes to making extra damage (that don't augment existing damage).
When I am next on, I am going to switch my Tactical (the only toon I have that has a Gal-R) from his Armitage to his Gal-R to do stfs with. I bet you I will be just fine with it. Not a high dps ship, but just fine.
The Galaxy was always an exploration vessel, NOT a battleship. I know you (and others) in your mind and heart of hearts want it to be, but its not. If you want more of a battleship, get the Gal-X (which amazingly looks like a Galaxy class, go figure...) If you want a turning cruiser, get an Excel'.
Battleships have task forces attached to them in everyday operations, not out exploring on their own.
The Nebula didn't partake in the Cardassian war (unless some non-cannon book threw one out there) it was a post Wolf 359 ship and was originally designed in response to the Enterprises first encounter with the Borg.
The Galaxy class was new when the Enterprise was launched, it wasn't in the Cardi' war (unless some non cannon book threw one out there).
As far as engi abilities, there are plenty of engi boff skills that arent linked to ept*** or ET that can be used.
you should definately reread his post, since he only stated that the galaxy and nebula were designed during these wars...never mentioned any of those ships taking part in it.
and it is a fact that engi ensign can only use ET1 and EPtX 1...or pls name one other engi ensign ability.
and new is relative, since it had already 2 other sister ships prior to the enterprise D. Yamato and Galaxy. I also think, though not 100% sure, that the enterprise D had a 1 year shakedown cruise behind it when picard took command.
a little research will make clear that the federation cardassian war was from 2347 until 2360...and the active developement for the galaxy class ship started in 2350 (during a war). all according to memory alpha.
you should definately reread his post, since he only stated that the galaxy and nebula were designed during these wars...never mentioned any of those ships taking part in it.
and it is a fact that engi ensign can only use ET1 and EPtX 1...or pls name one other engi ensign ability.
and new is relative, since it had already 2 other sister ships prior to the enterprise D. Yamato and Galaxy. I also think, though not 100% sure, that the enterprise D had a 1 year shakedown cruise behind it when picard took command.
a little research will make clear that the federation cardassian war was from 2347 until 2360...and the active developement for the galaxy class ship started in 2350 (during a war). all according to memory alpha.
He actually said "once several galaxy class and many more nebula class were launched, notice how it didn't take long for that cardasian war to end". To me, that implies they were out there knee deep in Cardassian space hulks.
So what if the the "ensign skills" are those, it still frees up higher level engi boff skills for EWP, Aceton, DEM and countless other skills.
Actually the Nebular class was first designed to be produced alongside the Galaxy and the two ships were supposed to travel together in-case of saucer separation being required. the plan was that should the galaxy class separate its saucer from the stardrive then the Nebula would pick up the saucer and warp away, it was literally a warp engine without a ship.
They then decided due to the circumstances that was a waste of resources and therefore built the saucer into the drive and made them science ships
That would have been a waste of resources. They should have just put some craptacularly low level warp core/reactor inside the primary hull and some retractable (dinky) nacelles when the saucer was separated. Sounds to me like some story line that Michael Stackpole would've come up with to get out of a writing contract.
The Galaxy was always an exploration vessel, NOT a battleship. I know you (and others) in your mind and heart of hearts want it to be, but its not. If you want more of a battleship, get the Gal-X (which amazingly looks like a Galaxy class, go figure...) If you want a turning cruiser, get an Excel'.
Battleships have task forces attached to them in everyday operations, not out exploring on their own.
The Nebula didn't partake in the Cardassian war (unless some non-cannon book threw one out there) it was a post Wolf 359 ship and was originally designed in response to the Enterprises first encounter with the Borg.
The Galaxy class was new when the Enterprise was launched, it wasn't in the Cardi' war (unless some non cannon book threw one out there).
As far as engi abilities, there are plenty of engi boff skills that arent linked to ept*** or ET that can be used.
sorry, you couldn't be more wrong about all that if you tried. contrary to popular belief, starfleet are not a bunch of hippies, and in the grim darkness of the 24th millennium, there is a fair amount of war.
the galaxy class is a battle ship because thats is a size based designation for the largest type of ship in a military. star fleet likes to think its not a military, its certainty different from a modern one, but the basics between the 2 are the same. they also don't like using military designations like that, but i don't no how anyone can keep track of what they are saying to each other if they refer to everything as 'explorer' or 'cruiser'.
its also as heavily armed as a ship designated a battleship should be. it has the largest phaser arrays of any ship in the entire starfleet, and that maters because all emitter segments in the array store power, and con contribute all that power into a single shot, about every second and a half. in 3 shots it was able to disintegrate approximately the same volume of itself in the hull of a borg cube. its 2 torpedo bays are unparalleled in rapid fire operations, capable of spiting out between 5-10 at a time, or sequentially fireing off 10 in a single second. given another second, i wouldn't be surprised if it could fire 10 more.
if starfleet was just building a flying cruise ship and laboratory with little or no military application, it would have shrimpy phaser arrays, wimpy torpedo launchers, and be no larger then 1/10 its current size. it would be insane to build something like that and not give it armaments that are appropriate for a ship that large, especially during multiple wars. apparently they forgot to tell the writers that they did in fact make it this powerful, because they kept writing situations were it would loss to vastly inferior ships, and only let it show off its true firepower against imaginary/invincible targets or a borg cube, situations were it couldn't win no mater what.
"The Nebula didn't partake in the Cardassian war" OK BOY. go watch the episode the wounded that introduced the nebula class and the cardasian, and get back to me on that.
Captain Benjamin Maxwell of the nebula class uss phoenix is a cardasian war veteran, and when he detected what he thought was more military build up and smuggling, he decided to take decisive action against it, blowing away swaths of cardasina ships in the process. even with prefix codes lowering it's shields, and several direct hits after, its was vaporizing galor class. and any thing the nebula can do tactically, the galaxy can do better, at the very least it lacks the torpedo launchers the galaxy has.
the nebula is a post 359 design? in the flashback sequence in the emissary, the ds9 pilot episode, a nebula and ambassador are seen flying toward the cube. there could have actually been nebula class in service as early as 2357 from some tech manual soft canon i have read, launched with not quite the cutting edge tech that delayed the galaxy class's official commissioning in around 2363.
and at ensign engineering level, there is only version 1 of the EPtX skills and ET. ET sharing cooldown with the team skills of tac and sci, and the 4 EPtX skills all sharing a cooldown with each other. at least tac has team, 2 beam, and 2 torpedo skills at that level, and sci has even more numerous skills. 3 different heals, tractor beam, jam sensors, tach beam. tones of skills, never tripping over each other with shared cooldowns. having 3 engineering ensigns is the WORST thing a ship can be saddled with.
sorry, you couldn't be more wrong about all that if you tried. contrary to popular belief, starfleet are not a bunch of hippies, and in the grim darkness of the 24th millennium, there is a fair amount of war.
Humm no, just no. DS9 showed war, TNG touched on it, barely, why? Because Gene was a communist hippie who wanted a ideal fantasy world.
DS9 was different because Gene's health was already starting to go when they started to discuss the expansion of Star Trek into another series during TNG, By the time the ball started to roll to make a new series, Gene already passed away and was not involved in the creation and story lines of DS9.
As the series went on it kept changing to engage people interested in more then just Utopia, who were at the time were also watching such Sci-Fi as Babylon 5, Terminator, the Alien movies, etc when in the late 1980's and the 1990's sci-fi took a much more dark role then just alien invasions of Earth and the original Star Trek series and the Star Wars movies.
Which is why DS9 started to turn more into a war show then Gene's fantasy. The Galaxy class was created with Gene, so its doubtful he'd have wanted it to be a real war ship. Heck there is clear evidence it was not initially designed for that since Gene wanted to have families on board and make it feel like a community and "extended family" instead of just a workplace like TOS or a battle ship like the Klingon's used.
Humm no, just no. DS9 showed war, TNG touched on it, barely, why? Because Gene was a communist hippie who wanted a ideal fantasy world.
DS9 was different because Gene's health was already starting to go when they started to discuss the expansion of Star Trek into another series during TNG, By the time the ball started to roll to make a new series, Gene already passed away and was not involved in the creation and story lines of DS9.
As the series went on it kept changing to engage people interested in more then just Utopia, who were at the time were also watching such Sci-Fi as Babylon 5, Terminator, the Alien movies, etc when in the late 1980's and the 1990's sci-fi took a much more dark role then just alien invasions of Earth and the original Star Trek series and the Star Wars movies.
Which is why DS9 started to turn more into a war show then Gene's fantasy. The Galaxy class was created with Gene, so its doubtful he'd have wanted it to be a real war ship. Heck there is clear evidence it was not initially designed for that since Gene wanted to have families on board and make it feel like a community and "extended family" instead of just a workplace like TOS or a battle ship like the Klingon's used.
Jim
I liked Star Trek more when it was about peaceful exploration. Other Sci Fi shows/Movies are full of War and people doing dirty stuff. Trek was different, that was what i liked about it.
Althrough i liked DS9 for its characters, i never liked what that show did with Star Trek.
I couldn't care less if some US americans think that Roddenberry was a communist (and i am sure much less people care outside of the US), his idea of a better humanity was what made Star trek stand out from all other Sci Fi shows.
Before DS9, Star Trek was a positive view of the future mankind, with DS9 Trek became just another War Sci Fi show. I don't want to say that DS9 was a bad show, but it wasn't Star Trek for me.
In universe, the Galaxy Class clearly was refitted for war and military missions, no more families on board, maybe even less science laboratories in exchange for some additional Fusion reactors and stronger Power transfer devices. Starfleet would be foolish if they wouldn't have added some more torpedo launchers and a enhanced shield grid over the years, just like on the Sovereign. There is no reason why a Galaxy class shouldn't be able to handle some more of them, since it is much more modular and refit friendly by default.
Thank you for reading.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Before DS9, Star Trek was a positive view of the future mankind, with DS9 Trek became just another War Sci Fi show.
DS9 wasn't about war per say, heck compared to most Sci-Fi of its time it didn't just focus on the battle scenes, and instead focused on how and why war is inevitable and how to keep the paradise you want, sometimes sacrafies must be made.
The episode "In the pale moonlight", was a prime example of the ethical and moral implications they were trying to show are sometimes required even with the veil of paradise being cast upon you and your way of living for your entire life.
You cannot maintain utopia for your entire population with your neighbours who do not share the same views as you without some hard tough choices. It was in TOS, and the original series movies, TNG however tried to remove the tough choices and make everything a question about maintaining the illusion of a prefect Federation, even when no one else around them agreed.
DS9 and TOS are much more believable to me then TNG. Especially as someone who likes to study history, things are not as rosey as they try to make it, both in fiction and real life. There are many shades of grey, and there are shades of black that cannot be escaped from.
In universe, the Galaxy Class clearly was refitted for war and military missions
Being the largest ships, it was clearly meant to be able to provide security in Federation Space, but it was also meant to export the Federation's own ideals, which by having what is effectively a community on ship, it makes sharing the ideals with other species easier as they can observe how you are instead of trusting only your word.
But at the same time, it was far from a battle ship, or a dedicated war cruiser, the larger the size, the more auxiliary systems and weight to keep it afloat in battle, such as shields, structural force fields, etc. The Sovereign class was the attempt of stripping down the Galaxy to be able to defend and fight when required and forgoing the need for families and the extra requirements of having a ship as large as a Galaxy.
Humm no, just no. DS9 showed war, TNG touched on it, barely, why? Because Gene was a communist hippie who wanted a ideal fantasy world.
DS9 was different because Gene's health was already starting to go when they started to discuss the expansion of Star Trek into another series during TNG, By the time the ball started to roll to make a new series, Gene already passed away and was not involved in the creation and story lines of DS9.
As the series went on it kept changing to engage people interested in more then just Utopia, who were at the time were also watching such Sci-Fi as Babylon 5, Terminator, the Alien movies, etc when in the late 1980's and the 1990's sci-fi took a much more dark role then just alien invasions of Earth and the original Star Trek series and the Star Wars movies.
Which is why DS9 started to turn more into a war show then Gene's fantasy. The Galaxy class was created with Gene, so its doubtful he'd have wanted it to be a real war ship. Heck there is clear evidence it was not initially designed for that since Gene wanted to have families on board and make it feel like a community and "extended family" instead of just a workplace like TOS or a battle ship like the Klingon's used.
Jim
star trek was an always evolving universe, at the beginning, there was only 12 ships like the enterprise, but the scope of the federation even looking back then makes that basically impossible, especially when there was 10s of thousands of ships in service in the 24th century.
even though the galaxy class was designed in the mid 80s, and the scope of star trek was smaller then than it is now, the galaxy still fits the role of federation battle ship just fine, even with the post ds9, post nemesis view of things. theres no features missing from it that we would have to explain away to make it work, thats whats great about it. everything that has come after it hasn't made it look like some hippy peace boat in comparison, hasn't handily trounced it even though they are much smaller or only slightly newer, despite what sov and defiant fan boys think.
and gene's tng fantasy utopia is still alive and well even during the darkest parts of post gene trek. ds9 was on the border of a hostel power, far from the federations light, thats the basis for all the early story lines. and voager was on the other side of the galaxy, even farther from paradise. the story's just didn't focus on the federation primary diplomatic component anymore, the enterprise D, the stories in DS9 are about the people on the wall defending the federation, spareing those in paradise the horrors to be found in the rest of the galaxy.
DS9 wasn't about war per say, heck compared to most Sci-Fi of its time it didn't just focus on the battle scenes, and instead focused on how and why war is inevitable and how to keep the paradise you want, sometimes sacrafies must be made.
The episode "In the pale moonlight", was a prime example of the ethical and moral implications they were trying to show are sometimes required even with the veil of paradise being cast upon you and your way of living for your entire life.
You cannot maintain utopia for your entire population with your neighbours who do not share the same views as you without some hard tough choices. It was in TOS, and the original series movies, TNG however tried to remove the tough choices and make everything a question about maintaining the illusion of a prefect Federation, even when no one else around them agreed.
DS9 and TOS are much more believable to me then TNG. Especially as someone who likes to study history, things are not as rosey as they try to make it, both in fiction and real life. There are many shades of grey, and there are shades of black that cannot be escaped from.
Being the largest ships, it was clearly meant to be able to provide security in Federation Space, but it was also meant to export the Federation's own ideals, which by having what is effectively a community on ship, it makes sharing the ideals with other species easier as they can observe how you are instead of trusting only your word.
But at the same time, it was far from a battle ship, or a dedicated war cruiser, the larger the size, the more auxiliary systems and weight to keep it afloat in battle, such as shields, structural force fields, etc. The Sovereign class was the attempt of stripping down the Galaxy to be able to defend and fight when required and forgoing the need for families and the extra requirements of having a ship as large as a Galaxy.
Jim
Eloquently said Jim, I couldn't have said it better myself (and many times tried, but failed)
sorry, you couldn't be more wrong about all that if you tried. contrary to popular belief, starfleet are not a bunch of hippies, and in the grim darkness of the 24th millennium, there is a fair amount of war.
the galaxy class is a battle ship because thats is a size based designation for the largest type of ship in a military. star fleet likes to think its not a military, its certainty different from a modern one, but the basics between the 2 are the same. they also don't like using military designations like that, but i don't no how anyone can keep track of what they are saying to each other if they refer to everything as 'explorer' or 'cruiser'.
its also as heavily armed as a ship designated a battleship should be. it has the largest phaser arrays of any ship in the entire starfleet, and that maters because all emitter segments in the array store power, and con contribute all that power into a single shot, about every second and a half. in 3 shots it was able to disintegrate approximately the same volume of itself in the hull of a borg cube. its 2 torpedo bays are unparalleled in rapid fire operations, capable of spiting out between 5-10 at a time, or sequentially fireing off 10 in a single second. given another second, i wouldn't be surprised if it could fire 10 more.
if starfleet was just building a flying cruise ship and laboratory with little or no military application, it would have shrimpy phaser arrays, wimpy torpedo launchers, and be no larger then 1/10 its current size. it would be insane to build something like that and not give it armaments that are appropriate for a ship that large, especially during multiple wars. apparently they forgot to tell the writers that they did in fact make it this powerful, because they kept writing situations were it would loss to vastly inferior ships, and only let it show off its true firepower against imaginary/invincible targets or a borg cube, situations were it couldn't win no mater what.
"The Nebula didn't partake in the Cardassian war" OK BOY. go watch the episode the wounded that introduced the nebula class and the cardasian, and get back to me on that.
Captain Benjamin Maxwell of the nebula class uss phoenix is a cardasian war veteran, and when he detected what he thought was more military build up and smuggling, he decided to take decisive action against it, blowing away swaths of cardasina ships in the process. even with prefix codes lowering it's shields, and several direct hits after, its was vaporizing galor class. and any thing the nebula can do tactically, the galaxy can do better, at the very least it lacks the torpedo launchers the galaxy has.
the nebula is a post 359 design? in the flashback sequence in the emissary, the ds9 pilot episode, a nebula and ambassador are seen flying toward the cube. there could have actually been nebula class in service as early as 2357 from some tech manual soft canon i have read, launched with not quite the cutting edge tech that delayed the galaxy class's official commissioning in around 2363.
and at ensign engineering level, there is only version 1 of the EPtX skills and ET. ET sharing cooldown with the team skills of tac and sci, and the 4 EPtX skills all sharing a cooldown with each other. at least tac has team, 2 beam, and 2 torpedo skills at that level, and sci has even more numerous skills. 3 different heals, tractor beam, jam sensors, tach beam. tones of skills, never tripping over each other with shared cooldowns. having 3 engineering ensigns is the WORST thing a ship can be saddled with.
That episode you spoke of was POST Cardassian war, he was a Cardi' war vet' and he didn't like or trust the Cardi's when he sent the Phoenix in to Cardi' space. Remember that it was creating an incident between the Fed's and the Cardi's? If it was in a time of war, the Fed's would've been rooting them on (except for the disobeying orders bit.)
Also, sharing cooldowns doesn't mean that they have the same delay. I hae several systems on cooldown at any one given time. The first ones usually 30 seconds or so (the normal cooldown time),while the second is only fifteen. I use them in rotation. Heck, in a fight I try to have an Epts running at all times.
Never said that Starfleet was a bunch of hippes. Even though I should have some reservations by them choosing "Cross over this line and I will draw another one" Picard as the Captain of the Enterprise, but oh well. I said that Starfleet was in a time of peace and exploration and nowhere as violent of a time as Kirk was Captain in.
Just because a ship is huge, doesn't make it a battleship. Battleships are not classified by tonnage or physical dimensions, but by purpose and role. If that was the case, a nation could take supertankers, craft in some 16' guns and call it a battleship, but it wouldn't be (except to those people who go out of their way to call it one). Battleships don't go on extended missions, especially without a task force attached to them, with families aboard.
The Galaxy is an Exploration Cruiser. Does it mean that it can't go into battle? No. Does it mean it can't defend itself against a respectable foe? No. Does it mean it can't be the biggest ship in the fleet (until the Ody' showed up)? Certainly not. Does it mean that it has its primary role in exploration (which is a good thing) but can be called up to defend itself and alongside other ships of the Federation in a time of need? Definately. But that doesnt make it a battleship.
even though the galaxy class was designed in the mid 80s, and the scope of star trek was smaller then than it is now, the galaxy still fits the role of federation battle ship just fine.
You don't put families on a battle ship, even Sail powered Blue Water Navies of this world, where the command officers were typically given quarters to bring their loved ones, (where the whole "Women and Children first" thing came from by the way, because it was the Captain's and his officer's families). The families were always only permitted on Exploration ships or trade route going ships where they were out to sea for years at a time. But always away from planned combat situations.
The fighting fleets of Navies did not allow the officers to carry their families. The ships, although many similar in size and construction, typically had a larger crew complement for war (such as Marines and others to preform boarding party raids), and they typically had more guns. But no families for anyone not even the Captain.
I said that Starfleet was in a time of peace and exploration and nowhere as violent of a time as Kirk was Captain in.
Well after Kirk in his tiny ships, and later on with Sulu in his also small Excelsior, managing to take down one thread to the federation after another, it makes it easy to spend money (err credits) on useless things such as overly large exploration ships so that people don't get home sick.
The Galaxy is an Exploration Cruiser. Does it mean that it can't go into battle? No. Does it mean it can't defend itself against a respectable foe? No. Does it mean it can't be the biggest ship in the fleet (until the Ody' showed up)? Certainly not. Does it mean that it has its primary role in exploration (which is a good thing) but can be called up to defend itself and alongside other ships of the Federation in a time of need? Definately. But that doesnt make it a battleship.
well then the game needs an actual Exploration mechanic that an escort cant do well?
Like, oh I dunno. Big Exploration ships actually USING cargo to haul for instance. Where an escort Pilot would have to make 10 trips where as the Galaxy could do it in 1 trip?
1) Dilithium farming mechanic that involves trade of non-replicable supplies and cargo hold size. It will be much more efficient with a cruiser or a freighter.
2) Tie inventory space and replicator EC prices to cargo bay size of the ship type. Have cruisers with the most generous modifiers, science vessels have a close 2nd, and escorts having the least.
Suddenly, escorts don't seem so OP. Though this might mean that we'll see nothing by Oddy's and Tuffli's flying around in sector space...
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Humm no, just no. DS9 showed war, TNG touched on it, barely, why? Because Gene was a communist hippie who wanted a ideal fantasy world.
DS9 was different because Gene's health was already starting to go when they started to discuss the expansion of Star Trek into another series during TNG, By the time the ball started to roll to make a new series, Gene already passed away and was not involved in the creation and story lines of DS9.
As the series went on it kept changing to engage people interested in more then just Utopia, who were at the time were also watching such Sci-Fi as Babylon 5, Terminator, the Alien movies, etc when in the late 1980's and the 1990's sci-fi took a much more dark role then just alien invasions of Earth and the original Star Trek series and the Star Wars movies.
Which is why DS9 started to turn more into a war show then Gene's fantasy. The Galaxy class was created with Gene, so its doubtful he'd have wanted it to be a real war ship. Heck there is clear evidence it was not initially designed for that since Gene wanted to have families on board and make it feel like a community and "extended family" instead of just a workplace like TOS or a battle ship like the Klingon's used.
Jim
I liked DS9 a little more than TNG as you meantioned and Sisko was more like Kirk than Picard.
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USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer Star Trek Gamers
DS9 wasn't about war per say, heck compared to most Sci-Fi of its time it didn't just focus on the battle scenes, and instead focused on how and why war is inevitable and how to keep the paradise you want, sometimes sacrafies must be made.
The episode "In the pale moonlight", was a prime example of the ethical and moral implications they were trying to show are sometimes required even with the veil of paradise being cast upon you and your way of living for your entire life.
You cannot maintain utopia for your entire population with your neighbours who do not share the same views as you without some hard tough choices. It was in TOS, and the original series movies, TNG however tried to remove the tough choices and make everything a question about maintaining the illusion of a prefect Federation, even when no one else around them agreed.
DS9 and TOS are much more believable to me then TNG. Especially as someone who likes to study history, things are not as rosey as they try to make it, both in fiction and real life. There are many shades of grey, and there are shades of black that cannot be escaped from.
In TNG, humanity has EVOLVED beyond our comprehension of how a society should work. Humanity has become grown up. The Federations wasn't perfect, just look at episodes like TNG: The Measure Of A Man where Picard had to fight for Datas rights. Besides that, the Federation WAS what we would call perfect, that was negated in DS9. In retrospect the federation was pictured as just as un perfect as our societies today. It became trivial, nothing that was worth to look forward to, or a goal that would be worth to achieve.
Being the largest ships, it was clearly meant to be able to provide security in Federation Space, but it was also meant to export the Federation's own ideals, which by having what is effectively a community on ship, it makes sharing the ideals with other species easier as they can observe how you are instead of trusting only your word.
But at the same time, it was far from a battle ship, or a dedicated war cruiser, the larger the size, the more auxiliary systems and weight to keep it afloat in battle, such as shields, structural force fields, etc. The Sovereign class was the attempt of stripping down the Galaxy to be able to defend and fight when required and forgoing the need for families and the extra requirements of having a ship as large as a Galaxy.
Jim
The Galaxy Class we know best (Ent -D) was clearly fitted to serve as the Flagship of the Federation in times of peace. Galaxy Class ships can very easy be re configurated to fit any Mission profile needed, INCLUDING tactical missions. Knowing that, i just don't buy that Starfleet would send Galaxy Class ships configurated like the Enterprise -D into war.
There was no (in universe) need to build the Sovereign in the first place. The only reason we have that ship is because the people in charge wanted to have something that would fit more to the big screen. As i already said the owners of Star Trek must have really strange visions about who is capable to make a star trek product.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
well then the game needs an actual Exploration mechanic that an escort cant do well?
Yes! Its the main reason why so many ask for Cryptic (that so loves to make new systems instead of content) to finally make a proper exploration system. Be aware though, since the ship's roles are defined and are all useful in combat I would not expect Cruisers to be that far above escorts in exploring unless they changed combat to completely exclude cruisers..... actually I can see how having exploration and front line combat separate would net them more ship sales, so everyone please forget i said anything!! *shudders at the idea of exploration lock box ships*
Comments
because this thread is actually all about the style of the galaxy. They love that ship so much they rather cry for some buffs for it a thousand years rather than just change the ship.
And i actually have sympathy with that, because you shouldn't be forced into another ship just because the one you like most is total TRIBBLE.
I understand and appreciate that, but when you want what pretty much is the same as another ship class, get that ship class!
I HATE the look of the Garumba and prefer the looks of the "Raptor" classes, but I still use the Garumba because its an awesome ship. I don't ask to have a Raptor that mirrors the ship.
I like the look of the MVAM much better than the Dervish variants (old "fleet escort"), but dont like that it doesn't have enough engi' boff slots, but I don't ask that they change the MVAM to have more engie' slots.
The Galaxy-R class was (before the introduction of the Ody') the toughest ship in the game to kill because of its boff layout. Its turn rate is TRIBBLE and its beginning dps is low, but engie boff abilities can fix that while still maintaining its tough-as-nails demeanor. Its not a battleship (never was supposed to be, even in the show).
If the look of the ship is that important, experiment with the ship to find a way to make it work, just dont expect it to be a dps machine with maneuverability on par with ships 1/2 - 2/3 of its size (which many of those are still cruisers).
While you may seem to look first at a ships stats, Hull Hp, BOFF layout, maneuverability and Console layout, i look at ships at how they are in "real" Star Trek and try to make them like that in STO.
I personally don't give anything about cryptics idea how a Star Trek ship should be like. (because they are 99% wrong)
That's the Point of this thread, to discuss ideas of how to CHANGE what the devs deliberately made wrong, not to whine about our favourite ship being just bad.
(that's a fine but important difference)
As much as i have seen so far, you just want to bash other peoples ideas because you apparently seem to think the Galaxy Class is allright as it is, but it isn't.
For some of us, the SHIP is what we see when we play this game, not just a number of stats and performance features. We want to fly the ship as it is supposed to be.
If that wheren't the case i would certainly fly Klingon ships.
I have the regent class but i just can't stand the sovereign like super long nacelles. I tride to get accustomed to it, but it just doesn't work for me.
I just find them repulsive ugly. In general i think the sovereign style looks just cheap. For me it looks like a streched constitution class.
Thank you for reading.
But thats the case with most fleet ships, which is really sad...they can't compete with each other...some are just the obvious better choice.
I'm, not here to bash anyone's ideas, just to point out the obvious, there are other choices out there, that and this notion based on the T.V. show and the movies, that the Galaxy is some sort of battleship, when it isn't. Its a "steady Eddie" exploration cruiser. It was built at a time of Federation peace and exploration was the order of the day. The Klinks' were our friends (heck , early episodes, Klingon ships flew the Federation flag in the background), only a minute "percentage of the Galaxy had been explored" and of the 1,000 crew compliment, much of them were family members to keep the crew members happy. Heck, enlisted personnel had their own rooms and not bunked atop of each other.
Since this thread went on full tilt, I have been using my Gal-X on my engineer to get some sort of take on what everyone is saying here (I have the Gal-R on my tactical as a freebie, but purchased the X through the C-Store). By taking away the consideration of the lance, the ensign tactical (in place of an ensign engie) and the third tac console (I dont use the cloak console), the hull is still a "steady Eddie" that lays out its damage over time, instead of spike damage, and can do things to reduce the opponents ability to fight, keep itself eternally alive (and others) and even increase the Galaxies dps.
Try using the 180 torp from the Regent you bought and a few other weapons combos and it will be a solid cruiser. It will never be a "spike damage" ship, nor is any other cruiser that the Feds have (save a well placed decloaking volley from a DBB/DHC Gal-X).
As far as the Sovy being ugly and looking like a stretched Constitution class, the Galaxy is a Connie that has been pulled width wise and flattened somewhat instead of stretched.
I don't know about that, that hull is a pretty darn good increase in damage. If I was more the 6xBA and 2xtorp sort of player (which some players are), that ship would be a pretty serious consideration, especially over the Odysseys out there. With 5 engie consoles, a person could just imagine hearing the enemies weapons bouncing off of the hull.
As of yet, there aren't any fleet cruisers that I am all about. The sci has its Neb' and the Tact have the Heavy Escort Carrier (even though most are going for the fleet defiant). I may just get the Fleet Galaxy for stfs.
No (STO) Federation Cruiser is a spike damage ship, not even the Regent.
The point is that the Galaxy has the LOWEST damage potential of all Cruisers in the Game!
All it's surviability doesn't help making this ship even remotely fun to fly, it's just too passive.
I use the Galaxy -R with one of my Tac. Captains myself and i use the 180 degrees Torpedo launcher from the Regent, but it's not nearly like the Regent or any other ship when it comes to Firepower. Which is just embarassing.
Of course if you ignore other ships completely the Galaxy Class (in STO) could be a passable ship, but that counts for any other ship too. My point is the galaxy Class as it is in the game is just not nearly like the ship in the show and compared to other cruisers just a joke. (Not to mention escorts)
In PvE you NEVER need the huge amount of Engineering slots this ship has. In PvP there is no point in surviving if your enemy can survive YOUR attack just as well or even better.
All the Engineering BOFF stations don't help to make this ship having more punch. Making the newest incarnation (the Fleet Galaxy) even more passive doesn't help anyone. But i really don't care about the Fleet Galaxy, because my fleet will never get it and it is nothing i would regret not having.
When i bought the Galaxy -R this ship was the biggest dissappointment i had playing STO (and believe me there where a LOT of dissappointments).
If you had read the previous pages you would know by now that the Galaxy Class (or any other Starfleet cruiser) never where inteded to do "tickle" their enemies to death. Their weapons where made to release huge amounts of energy at once, not by doing some sort of constant fire. That's just cryptics idea of how Cruisers should work.
Especially the Galaxy Class never was a "Steady eddie", it was a ship that needed to be able to take care for itself, when operating far away from any other Starfleet ship. That is the big difference between the Galaxy Class and ANY other starfleet ship. It should be able to adopt to a board range of mission, even tactical ones in times of war.
To reflect the the Galaxy Class should have been a bit like a Federation counterpart to the Klingon B'rel Class. Highly universal BOFF stations, but much less maneuverability and speed. But as always people in charge of a Star Trek product rarely know what they are doing, lol.
Instead of misusing the Galaxy as a "total" tank the devs should have used one of their own designs for that role.
Now, there is not much anyone can (or is willing to) do something about it. The only hope i have is the release some special, more "realistic" version of the Galaxy class in the far future.
(Or wait for another game, made by people who care about star trek in the far future.)
What this ship needs is at least a universal Lt. in exchange of it's science Lt. Plus a universal console in exchange of one of its science consoles.
About the look of Sov. and Galaxy: Fo me, the Galaxy just looks better because it's lines are much more fluid and elegant, the Sovereign, Akira, norway and sabre look much too angular and especially the soverign looks too much like a skeleton of a ship, it's too much a contrast to other Starfleet ships prior ST:8. But there's no accounting for taste.
Thank you for reading.
You mean like the Excelsior... one of Starfleets most successful and iconic designs and in my personal opinion their prettiest.
I was glad as they introduced the Galaxy and later the Ambassador which where much better looking ships. These ships do emanate a certain kind of elegance and grandness which ships like the Excelsior and Sovereign will never have.
The only reason this ship was so "successful" was because the producers where to lazy and to stingy to introduce another new and more advanced design.
I really hoped they left behind ship designs like that in the TNG era, but the sovereign was a huge disappointment. It was like two steps back in ship design, the designer should be shot even today for it, lol.
I'm happy for you that you like the Excelsior (which is a fine ship in STO), but i find it a shame this old bucket performs much better than the Galaxy to be honest.
I stopped to discuss about things like that for a long time, discussions about taste lead to nothing.
Sorry for being off topic.
Thank you for reading.
its a battleship in a strictly military sense. but when its not battling its the largest and most well equipped mobile laboratory in the federation.
there was a full blown cardasian war during most of the galaxy class's development, right after the cease fire cardasians were introduced in tng season 5 i think. soon after the DMZ was negotiated, DS9 started.
prior to sisco's position on the saratoga, he served under laton in what was refereed to as the latest tzenkethi war. that was in at least the late 2350s too. also, there was a conflict with the tholians that was so heated that an entire starbase was destroyed, riker's dad being the only survivor.
so..... the galaxy being designed in and for peace time is BULL****. once several galaxy class and many more nebula class were launched, notice how it didn't take long for that cardasian war to end...
in game, the galaxy's station setup is an extreme hindrance in its ability to deal damage, AND tank and heal. you could do SOOOOO much more with a sci ensign with ether ST, HE, or TSS vs another ET1 or EPtX1.
its made even worse now with doffs. the damage control doffs that can cut 4 EPtX abilities down to 2, and the technician doffs that lower all cooldowns removing the need for doubling up powers are all but unusable on the galaxy, you would have completely redundant and useless station powers in place of a hugely useful TT1, FAW1, HE1, TSS1, and all numerous other tac and sci abilities.
the galaxy class's disadvantages are so compounded and numerous that im convinced their metaphysical weight is why its turn rate and inertia are so bad. it fails in every way it is possible for a ship to fail.
yeah, totally agree. But some seem to confuse the problem this one ship has, that cruisers in general can't deal any dmg. And thats just not right.
Galaxy is TRIBBLE for this game because of it's over specialization. to be an effective tank/support both PVE and PVP you need a max of 4 or 5 engi BOFF slots and 2-3 sci boff slots. leaving 4-6 for tac boffs. look at cruisers that actually have this layout and you realize they perform superb in this game.
myself i was allways pro universal ensign and or sci ltdcmdr for this ship. Even a sensor analasys wouldn't be off balance since it only has 2 tac console slots.
a galaxy sci cruiser if you want...not unlike the nebula, which is the smaller more sci vessel oriented version of basically the same design idea.
The Galaxy was always an exploration vessel, NOT a battleship. I know you (and others) in your mind and heart of hearts want it to be, but its not. If you want more of a battleship, get the Gal-X (which amazingly looks like a Galaxy class, go figure...) If you want a turning cruiser, get an Excel'.
Battleships have task forces attached to them in everyday operations, not out exploring on their own.
The Nebula didn't partake in the Cardassian war (unless some non-cannon book threw one out there) it was a post Wolf 359 ship and was originally designed in response to the Enterprises first encounter with the Borg.
The Galaxy class was new when the Enterprise was launched, it wasn't in the Cardi' war (unless some non cannon book threw one out there).
As far as engi abilities, there are plenty of engi boff skills that arent linked to ept*** or ET that can be used.
Actually the Nebular class was first designed to be produced alongside the Galaxy and the two ships were supposed to travel together in-case of saucer separation being required. the plan was that should the galaxy class separate its saucer from the stardrive then the Nebula would pick up the saucer and warp away, it was literally a warp engine without a ship.
They then decided due to the circumstances that was a waste of resources and therefore built the saucer into the drive and made them science ships
There always is going to be a ship with the lowest damage potential, your beloved Galaxy is in that barrel. As far as taking care of itself, it wasn't supposed to be looking for other warships to fight. Also that Galaxy-R has the same amount of tactical boff slots as the Star Cruiser. Maybe what Cryptic should do is design a ship that has even less damage potential than the Galaxy. Would that make you happy? Heck, it'd be a great excuse to come out with the Ambassador class.
As far as neutering science boffs and consoles so you can get more Tactical spots, its an Exploration cruiser which uses science to do research, kinda negates the whole premise behin TNG. Plus it was dumb enough when they made the Regents science spot a universal, every ships should have at least an ensign of all three types of boffs. If you want an ensign science and an ensign universal, that's one thing, but missing a path completely is nonfunctional.
In regards to the looks, at least you get to look at your favorite ship at endplay, think of all the TOS and Movie Connie fans that wave good-bye to their "best looking" ships after Lt.
As far as PvE and engie boffs, I use them all of the time in STF's, if not for me than my teammates.
Maybe the tree you need to be barking is to have more relevant engineer boff skills when it comes to making extra damage (that don't augment existing damage).
When I am next on, I am going to switch my Tactical (the only toon I have that has a Gal-R) from his Armitage to his Gal-R to do stfs with. I bet you I will be just fine with it. Not a high dps ship, but just fine.
you should definately reread his post, since he only stated that the galaxy and nebula were designed during these wars...never mentioned any of those ships taking part in it.
and it is a fact that engi ensign can only use ET1 and EPtX 1...or pls name one other engi ensign ability.
and new is relative, since it had already 2 other sister ships prior to the enterprise D. Yamato and Galaxy. I also think, though not 100% sure, that the enterprise D had a 1 year shakedown cruise behind it when picard took command.
a little research will make clear that the federation cardassian war was from 2347 until 2360...and the active developement for the galaxy class ship started in 2350 (during a war). all according to memory alpha.
He actually said "once several galaxy class and many more nebula class were launched, notice how it didn't take long for that cardasian war to end". To me, that implies they were out there knee deep in Cardassian space hulks.
So what if the the "ensign skills" are those, it still frees up higher level engi boff skills for EWP, Aceton, DEM and countless other skills.
That would have been a waste of resources. They should have just put some craptacularly low level warp core/reactor inside the primary hull and some retractable (dinky) nacelles when the saucer was separated. Sounds to me like some story line that Michael Stackpole would've come up with to get out of a writing contract.
sorry, you couldn't be more wrong about all that if you tried. contrary to popular belief, starfleet are not a bunch of hippies, and in the grim darkness of the 24th millennium, there is a fair amount of war.
the galaxy class is a battle ship because thats is a size based designation for the largest type of ship in a military. star fleet likes to think its not a military, its certainty different from a modern one, but the basics between the 2 are the same. they also don't like using military designations like that, but i don't no how anyone can keep track of what they are saying to each other if they refer to everything as 'explorer' or 'cruiser'.
its also as heavily armed as a ship designated a battleship should be. it has the largest phaser arrays of any ship in the entire starfleet, and that maters because all emitter segments in the array store power, and con contribute all that power into a single shot, about every second and a half. in 3 shots it was able to disintegrate approximately the same volume of itself in the hull of a borg cube. its 2 torpedo bays are unparalleled in rapid fire operations, capable of spiting out between 5-10 at a time, or sequentially fireing off 10 in a single second. given another second, i wouldn't be surprised if it could fire 10 more.
if starfleet was just building a flying cruise ship and laboratory with little or no military application, it would have shrimpy phaser arrays, wimpy torpedo launchers, and be no larger then 1/10 its current size. it would be insane to build something like that and not give it armaments that are appropriate for a ship that large, especially during multiple wars. apparently they forgot to tell the writers that they did in fact make it this powerful, because they kept writing situations were it would loss to vastly inferior ships, and only let it show off its true firepower against imaginary/invincible targets or a borg cube, situations were it couldn't win no mater what.
"The Nebula didn't partake in the Cardassian war" OK BOY. go watch the episode the wounded that introduced the nebula class and the cardasian, and get back to me on that.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Wounded_%28episode%29
Captain Benjamin Maxwell of the nebula class uss phoenix is a cardasian war veteran, and when he detected what he thought was more military build up and smuggling, he decided to take decisive action against it, blowing away swaths of cardasina ships in the process. even with prefix codes lowering it's shields, and several direct hits after, its was vaporizing galor class. and any thing the nebula can do tactically, the galaxy can do better, at the very least it lacks the torpedo launchers the galaxy has.
the nebula is a post 359 design? in the flashback sequence in the emissary, the ds9 pilot episode, a nebula and ambassador are seen flying toward the cube. there could have actually been nebula class in service as early as 2357 from some tech manual soft canon i have read, launched with not quite the cutting edge tech that delayed the galaxy class's official commissioning in around 2363.
and at ensign engineering level, there is only version 1 of the EPtX skills and ET. ET sharing cooldown with the team skills of tac and sci, and the 4 EPtX skills all sharing a cooldown with each other. at least tac has team, 2 beam, and 2 torpedo skills at that level, and sci has even more numerous skills. 3 different heals, tractor beam, jam sensors, tach beam. tones of skills, never tripping over each other with shared cooldowns. having 3 engineering ensigns is the WORST thing a ship can be saddled with.
Humm no, just no. DS9 showed war, TNG touched on it, barely, why? Because Gene was a communist hippie who wanted a ideal fantasy world.
DS9 was different because Gene's health was already starting to go when they started to discuss the expansion of Star Trek into another series during TNG, By the time the ball started to roll to make a new series, Gene already passed away and was not involved in the creation and story lines of DS9.
As the series went on it kept changing to engage people interested in more then just Utopia, who were at the time were also watching such Sci-Fi as Babylon 5, Terminator, the Alien movies, etc when in the late 1980's and the 1990's sci-fi took a much more dark role then just alien invasions of Earth and the original Star Trek series and the Star Wars movies.
Which is why DS9 started to turn more into a war show then Gene's fantasy. The Galaxy class was created with Gene, so its doubtful he'd have wanted it to be a real war ship. Heck there is clear evidence it was not initially designed for that since Gene wanted to have families on board and make it feel like a community and "extended family" instead of just a workplace like TOS or a battle ship like the Klingon's used.
Jim
Althrough i liked DS9 for its characters, i never liked what that show did with Star Trek.
I couldn't care less if some US americans think that Roddenberry was a communist (and i am sure much less people care outside of the US), his idea of a better humanity was what made Star trek stand out from all other Sci Fi shows.
Before DS9, Star Trek was a positive view of the future mankind, with DS9 Trek became just another War Sci Fi show. I don't want to say that DS9 was a bad show, but it wasn't Star Trek for me.
In universe, the Galaxy Class clearly was refitted for war and military missions, no more families on board, maybe even less science laboratories in exchange for some additional Fusion reactors and stronger Power transfer devices. Starfleet would be foolish if they wouldn't have added some more torpedo launchers and a enhanced shield grid over the years, just like on the Sovereign. There is no reason why a Galaxy class shouldn't be able to handle some more of them, since it is much more modular and refit friendly by default.
Thank you for reading.
DS9 wasn't about war per say, heck compared to most Sci-Fi of its time it didn't just focus on the battle scenes, and instead focused on how and why war is inevitable and how to keep the paradise you want, sometimes sacrafies must be made.
The episode "In the pale moonlight", was a prime example of the ethical and moral implications they were trying to show are sometimes required even with the veil of paradise being cast upon you and your way of living for your entire life.
You cannot maintain utopia for your entire population with your neighbours who do not share the same views as you without some hard tough choices. It was in TOS, and the original series movies, TNG however tried to remove the tough choices and make everything a question about maintaining the illusion of a prefect Federation, even when no one else around them agreed.
DS9 and TOS are much more believable to me then TNG. Especially as someone who likes to study history, things are not as rosey as they try to make it, both in fiction and real life. There are many shades of grey, and there are shades of black that cannot be escaped from.
Being the largest ships, it was clearly meant to be able to provide security in Federation Space, but it was also meant to export the Federation's own ideals, which by having what is effectively a community on ship, it makes sharing the ideals with other species easier as they can observe how you are instead of trusting only your word.
But at the same time, it was far from a battle ship, or a dedicated war cruiser, the larger the size, the more auxiliary systems and weight to keep it afloat in battle, such as shields, structural force fields, etc. The Sovereign class was the attempt of stripping down the Galaxy to be able to defend and fight when required and forgoing the need for families and the extra requirements of having a ship as large as a Galaxy.
Jim
star trek was an always evolving universe, at the beginning, there was only 12 ships like the enterprise, but the scope of the federation even looking back then makes that basically impossible, especially when there was 10s of thousands of ships in service in the 24th century.
even though the galaxy class was designed in the mid 80s, and the scope of star trek was smaller then than it is now, the galaxy still fits the role of federation battle ship just fine, even with the post ds9, post nemesis view of things. theres no features missing from it that we would have to explain away to make it work, thats whats great about it. everything that has come after it hasn't made it look like some hippy peace boat in comparison, hasn't handily trounced it even though they are much smaller or only slightly newer, despite what sov and defiant fan boys think.
and gene's tng fantasy utopia is still alive and well even during the darkest parts of post gene trek. ds9 was on the border of a hostel power, far from the federations light, thats the basis for all the early story lines. and voager was on the other side of the galaxy, even farther from paradise. the story's just didn't focus on the federation primary diplomatic component anymore, the enterprise D, the stories in DS9 are about the people on the wall defending the federation, spareing those in paradise the horrors to be found in the rest of the galaxy.
Eloquently said Jim, I couldn't have said it better myself (and many times tried, but failed)
That episode you spoke of was POST Cardassian war, he was a Cardi' war vet' and he didn't like or trust the Cardi's when he sent the Phoenix in to Cardi' space. Remember that it was creating an incident between the Fed's and the Cardi's? If it was in a time of war, the Fed's would've been rooting them on (except for the disobeying orders bit.)
Also, sharing cooldowns doesn't mean that they have the same delay. I hae several systems on cooldown at any one given time. The first ones usually 30 seconds or so (the normal cooldown time),while the second is only fifteen. I use them in rotation. Heck, in a fight I try to have an Epts running at all times.
Never said that Starfleet was a bunch of hippes. Even though I should have some reservations by them choosing "Cross over this line and I will draw another one" Picard as the Captain of the Enterprise, but oh well. I said that Starfleet was in a time of peace and exploration and nowhere as violent of a time as Kirk was Captain in.
Just because a ship is huge, doesn't make it a battleship. Battleships are not classified by tonnage or physical dimensions, but by purpose and role. If that was the case, a nation could take supertankers, craft in some 16' guns and call it a battleship, but it wouldn't be (except to those people who go out of their way to call it one). Battleships don't go on extended missions, especially without a task force attached to them, with families aboard.
The Galaxy is an Exploration Cruiser. Does it mean that it can't go into battle? No. Does it mean it can't defend itself against a respectable foe? No. Does it mean it can't be the biggest ship in the fleet (until the Ody' showed up)? Certainly not. Does it mean that it has its primary role in exploration (which is a good thing) but can be called up to defend itself and alongside other ships of the Federation in a time of need? Definately. But that doesnt make it a battleship.
You don't put families on a battle ship, even Sail powered Blue Water Navies of this world, where the command officers were typically given quarters to bring their loved ones, (where the whole "Women and Children first" thing came from by the way, because it was the Captain's and his officer's families). The families were always only permitted on Exploration ships or trade route going ships where they were out to sea for years at a time. But always away from planned combat situations.
The fighting fleets of Navies did not allow the officers to carry their families. The ships, although many similar in size and construction, typically had a larger crew complement for war (such as Marines and others to preform boarding party raids), and they typically had more guns. But no families for anyone not even the Captain.
Well after Kirk in his tiny ships, and later on with Sulu in his also small Excelsior, managing to take down one thread to the federation after another, it makes it easy to spend money (err credits) on useless things such as overly large exploration ships so that people don't get home sick.
Pretty much.
Jim
Like, oh I dunno. Big Exploration ships actually USING cargo to haul for instance. Where an escort Pilot would have to make 10 trips where as the Galaxy could do it in 1 trip?
But no, this is a battle game.
1) Dilithium farming mechanic that involves trade of non-replicable supplies and cargo hold size. It will be much more efficient with a cruiser or a freighter.
2) Tie inventory space and replicator EC prices to cargo bay size of the ship type. Have cruisers with the most generous modifiers, science vessels have a close 2nd, and escorts having the least.
Suddenly, escorts don't seem so OP. Though this might mean that we'll see nothing by Oddy's and Tuffli's flying around in sector space...
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The Galaxy Class we know best (Ent -D) was clearly fitted to serve as the Flagship of the Federation in times of peace. Galaxy Class ships can very easy be re configurated to fit any Mission profile needed, INCLUDING tactical missions. Knowing that, i just don't buy that Starfleet would send Galaxy Class ships configurated like the Enterprise -D into war.
There was no (in universe) need to build the Sovereign in the first place. The only reason we have that ship is because the people in charge wanted to have something that would fit more to the big screen. As i already said the owners of Star Trek must have really strange visions about who is capable to make a star trek product.
Yes! Its the main reason why so many ask for Cryptic (that so loves to make new systems instead of content) to finally make a proper exploration system. Be aware though, since the ship's roles are defined and are all useful in combat I would not expect Cruisers to be that far above escorts in exploring unless they changed combat to completely exclude cruisers..... actually I can see how having exploration and front line combat separate would net them more ship sales, so everyone please forget i said anything!! *shudders at the idea of exploration lock box ships*