Really? 140 tactical and 60 security common doffs required for tier 3 main military project and it still only gives 1k xp? Anybody knows a reward system works by giving more of something for more work when each tier requires more xp. I mean comeon, you're almost doubling the requirements of everything without even giving a 50% increase in the base xp that each tier's project gives. Did you even put any thought into this system before you implemented? I understand you want the starbases to take awhile, but at this rate it's going to be nigh impossible to get tier 5 on anything in less than 2 years. I say we make this our stand, make a stand, less requirements or more xp per tier. Hands up. o/
I already feel like people are well in their way towards realizing the poor implementation of starbases. How often do you hear someone ask a question about what ELSE do the NPCs do in the station, what makes them different from the ones already available in our own ships or DS9, First City, ESD, etc? The answer almost always has the asking player respond with "really? for all that work??!!" I truly believe most people will slow down dramatically after Tier 3. Anyone else wanting to get a Tier 5 ship will simply buy the ability to use the Tier 5 Shipyard from one of the handful of fleets that get there first.
Maybe I'm wrong, but wasn't there talk of missions you would be able to launch (start, queu up for, etc) from your base. Presumably with your fleetmates. And you would get red alert notices like you do with the Borg Incursions when you could run to defend your base? Was all that my imagination or faulty memory or was it all simply made into the queu fleet missions? Seriously, all that time and all I see is a worse Defera, a handful of new repeatable missions and 4 new areas that make up the starbase? I think the most important content of S6 is probably the revamp of NPC enemies!
Would it have been so hard to implement something NEW in starbases? Reworked so so weapons and gear is not what we wanted (but at least it didn't outshine the STF gear, lateral choices instead of gear inflation is my preference after all, good job on knowing when to say no). We want something NEW!! Or story progression... its funny, Vibora Pay scared them from paid Xpacs so much they won't do one even now.
If I understand the OP right, it's just a matter of perspective...
If I understand things right now, OP is complaining that, whether it's a "tier 1", "tier 3", or "tier 5" classXP mission, they typically only pay 500/1000 classXP. He thinks that because a "tier 3" needs over twice the materials than a "tier 1", we should get more classXP for the "tier 3" than the "tier 1".
However, I like the system as it stands now. I know that from now to tier 5, I'll have to do 10-20 missions (depending on how many I do with provisions or without) to get 10,000 classXP. Therefore, getting from the 25,000 "tier 2 point" to the 50,000 "tier 3 point" needs approx. 25-50 missions.
Does the OP really think that this 25-50 mission requirement will change if he gets more classXP per mission, or will the 50,000 classXP requirement go up with the increased earnings so that it'll take 25-50 missions to get there? And if so, how tempted would he, and his fleet, be at making, say, a tier 5 shipyard if the preview screen shows that he'll need over 1,000,000 classXP to reach it, without knowing that he'll be earning 5,000 classXP per run?
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
I'm in a fleet that hit tier 3 starbase and filled it up in a day. i strongly suspect that we will get our tier 5 in or around the 7-8 month mark as they suggested as the minimum.
im sure others will struggle and it could take some people years but even if they adjust the xp given per assignment they would just up the total amounts needed. if 7 months is the minimum they want then its going to remain 7months no matter how the points are needed.
I don't have strong feelings on it, mostly because I knew it'd be a grind/time sink style "keep them occupied while we actually come up with something" sort of deal. Granted, C-store shiny things seem to be coming thick and fast, but I don't think that's the content that'll make the game good, it's just stuff to keep Zen sales up. Monumental dilithium requirements will also help with this.
My only real grievance is that the only way to contribute is PVE.
Yes, I said it - in this case, I'm going to blame us, the victim. Every time one of us buys a silly racing uniform, every time one of us acquiesces and breaks down and buys a per-character unlock vanity item, we are to blame. We have been so damn starved for content we've been willing to accept anything thrown at us, even a blatant resource sink.
Everytime we give PWE a hall pass on this TRIBBLE, we get something that is certainly "working as intended" - for them.
Yes, the bases are supposed to take 7 months-ish. But even though we've been warned, does that make it correct? Does that make it right?Does that preclude any room for adjustment or improvement?
They laid out the minimium amount of time to get to Tier 5 for anything involving the Starbases was 7 months. Obviously, the higher tier it is, the longer its gonna take to complete.
Im not gonna join this 'stand' of yours. I see nothing wrong with taking the amount of time required to build a starbase.
Me either. I realize building a stabase requires thousands of people and years of work put forth by the 'team' that wants it built. In game it's shown as a high requirement for a particularly skilled bunch of doffs, and tho a major outlaying of resources for a small fleet it's accurately represented and achievable by a larger fleet. A starbase would NOT EVER be built for a 5 member fleet so if one IS built for them is should be an almost impossible task- which it is.
Me either. I realize building a stabase requires thousands of people and years of work put forth by the 'team' that wants it built. In game it's shown as a high requirement for a particularly skilled bunch of doffs, and tho a major outlaying of resources for a small fleet it's accurately represented and achievable by a larger fleet. A starbase would NOT EVER be built for a 5 member fleet so if one IS built for them is should be an almost impossible task- which it is.
I agree with you if u speak about something like Earth Spacedock. Its big and im sure it took a lot of time, materials an manpower to built it.
But if ur at war u rly dont have the time to built a starbase that needs a year or longer to get finished.
What u need is a small, cheap base to assemble ur fleet. And as long as i can build my base only in Eta Eridani this base is the only one i would construct there.
And even a 5man fleet should be able to built something like this up in less then a year.
Every player at max level is an Admiral and commanding a crew from 100 to 1000 human beings.
I don't have strong feelings on it, mostly because I knew it'd be a grind/time sink style "keep them occupied while we actually come up with something" sort of deal. Granted, C-store shiny things seem to be coming thick and fast, but I don't think that's the content that'll make the game good, it's just stuff to keep Zen sales up. Monumental dilithium requirements will also help with this.
My only real grievance is that the only way to contribute is PVE.
entirely true. i'm just miffed they didnt tell people what you would get at t5 b/c if everyone knew the TRIBBLE that starbases are loaded with (dmg mods and lame ships) then nobody would have bothered and we would have all gone back to protesting the complete lack of content we have seen recently.
When in doubt, (hehe) c4!
This sig dedicated to the many random objects the Mythbusters crew has blow to smitherines
Well then you will continue to have something to strive for while larger fleets will have long since finished theirs and will have gone back to QQing over there not being anything to do...
Okay, listen large fleet members. Our fleet will provide the opportunity to once again perform your favorite starbase building activities in our fleet, once you have completed yours. The fee will be moderate.
Whatever we deny or embrace, we belong togheter./ Pat Benatar
I would rather rally against the Provisioning Missions for Operational Assets. These simply should not need to exist at all. The only thing Operational Assets do is make getting more fleet marks a tiny bit easier. So you want to throw away a huge sum of fleet marks and resources in order to get a smaller sum of fleet marks in return? That just does not add up.
I have no problem with the higher levels taking a long time to achieve but I do think there should be some kind of scaling with the size of the fleet.
It seems that the current model is:
- Whats our largest fleet? Few hundred people.
- Ok, lets set the requirments so it will take a fleet of that size on average around a year to get to T5.
To my fleet of 3 people (+ a few alts) T2 is slog but we might get there in a few months
T3 looks it will take forever.
Beyond that I think it will be impossible, or to put it another way: The sheer scale of the task will erode any motivation to bother any more.
There's also the fact that whilst I'm sure it would be possible to make faster progress, I (and I assume my fleetmates) don't WANT to pour every single last scrap of our resources into the bloody base.
There is more in game to do with EC, Dil and Doffs. than chuck them down the infinite resource pit. I.e. More to STO than starbases.
Even if we did chuck our collective 100' of millions of EC and every scrap of Dil. in we'd all probably run dry half way to T4.
I have no problem with the higher levels taking a long time to achieve but I do think there should be some kind of scaling with the size of the fleet.
Sorry, but that won't ever happen, because those very same large fleets now, would just split into multiple smaller ones, with each fleet focusing on one area, thus needing smaller requirements for each fleet, while still having access to all the fleet's resources.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
why should it ?
what would happen if everyone breezed through all the projects and starbases were at t5 in about 4 -5 months , then what ? there would be nothing else to do on them and people would be complaining even harder than they seem to be now
The projects are time gated. Reducing the resource cost wouldn't make the projects complete any faster, it would just reduce the grinding.
I have no problem with the higher levels taking a long time to achieve but I do think there should be some kind of scaling with the size of the fleet.
It seems that the current model is:
- Whats our largest fleet? Few hundred people.
- Ok, lets set the requirments so it will take a fleet of that size on average around a year to get to T5.
To my fleet of 3 people (+ a few alts) T2 is slog but we might get there in a few months
T3 looks it will take forever.
Beyond that I think it will be impossible, or to put it another way: The sheer scale of the task will erode any motivation to bother any more.
There's also the fact that whilst I'm sure it would be possible to make faster progress, I (and I assume my fleetmates) don't WANT to pour every single last scrap of our resources into the bloody base.
There is more in game to do with EC, Dil and Doffs. than chuck them down the infinite resource pit. I.e. More to STO than starbases.
Even if we did chuck our collective 100' of millions of EC and every scrap of Dil. in we'd all probably run dry half way to T4.
Who makes a Fleet of 1? 2 or 3? Just friend each other and attempt to be on at the same time.
If Cryptic is to do anything about the fact very small Fleets like yours are having trouble. Its to make it so you cant build LARGE starbases for three individuals. What they need to do is design different sized starbases. The larger your Fleet, the bigger your Starbase is. That way the Tiers could scale to the size. You wouldnt need as much resources for a starbase the size of the one we see in DS9 during the beginning of the Dominion War.
Who makes a Fleet of 1? 2 or 3? Just friend each other and attempt to be on at the same time.
If Cryptic is to do anything about the fact very small Fleets like yours are having trouble. Its to make it so you cant build LARGE starbases for three individuals. What they need to do is design different sized starbases. The larger your Fleet, the bigger your Starbase is. That way the Tiers could scale to the size. You wouldnt need as much resources for a starbase the size of the one we see in DS9 during the beginning of the Dominion War.
I think that's exactly what they have done.
The base assumption that some people have is false. Many seem to believe that every single fleet should have or be able to easily get a full-on Starbase with all the features and be equal to a large fleet.
That's not really the case, nor does it make any sense that a five member fleet would end up with a Tier V phatted-out Starbase.
My only issue with the system is the really long project times - in Tier III they can go up to 7 days. That's a week - a really long time for a project slot to be occupied. It's obviously intentional as a way to stretch the content out, but I find a week to be a bit much. And I fear it will only get worse as we further progress. Time gating is understandable, but a week in an MMO is a very long time for anything.
The base assumption that some people have is false. Many seem to believe that every single fleet should have or be able to easily get a full-on Starbase with all the features and be equal to a large fleet.
That's not really the case, nor does it make any sense that a five member fleet would end up with a Tier V phatted-out Starbase.
I think you have the wrong idea here. People in small fleets who do not want to be forced into joining a large fleet wanted to be able to enjoy the starbase content. There are advantages and disadvantages for being in a small/large fleet but it shouldn't restrict the content in the game base on the size of your fleet.
There are many ways in which they could've implemented the starbase system, they chose to do it this way. Any system where fleets/starbases are being abandoned is in my opinion a poor choice. Starbases should bring members within a fleet together and make people want to continue building them.
I think you have the wrong idea here. People in small fleets who do not want to be forced into joining a large fleet wanted to be able to enjoy the starbase content. There are advantages and disadvantages for being in a small/large fleet but it shouldn't restrict the content in the game base on the size of your fleet.
There are many ways in which they could've implemented the starbase system, they chose to do it this way. Any system where fleets/starbases are being abandoned is in my opinion a poor choice. Starbases should bring members within a fleet together and make people want to continue building them.
When people are given a reward for engaging in an action, that is not a punishment to those who do not engage in that action.
The team who loses the Super Bowl isn't being punished by not receiving a trophy.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
So I believe it is on Cryptic to give them some sort of support role that can be made to feel as rewarding or at least allowing the same pace of progression as large fleet activities.
I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. If a small fleet can progress at the same rate as a large fleet, all ability for fleets to leverage this for community building evaporates. If 3 people can progress at the same rate as 30, why would the other 27 participate?
Not every single thing added to the system should be identical for every single player. There will be things that reward PvPers. There will be things that reward hardcore PvE play. There will be things that reward RP. There will be things that reward giving PWE more money. Why should there be things that encourage isolating yourself from the first "M" in "MMO"?
That would be like putting in a reward that's only available to people who don't log in for a month, or only available to people who have spent less than $10 on Zen in the last year, or only available to people who have failed the optional objectives in 9 out of their last 10 Elite STF attempts.
There will be rewards you can't obtain without engaging in something you don't enjoy. That's not a punishment; that's a reward for somebody else. I hate running; I don't log onto running forums and complain I should get the Olympic Gold Medal for the 100 yard dash because I walk that far from my car to the office every morning, and then again from the office to the car in the evening.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. If a small fleet can progress at the same rate as a large fleet, all ability for fleets to leverage this for community building evaporates. If 3 people can progress at the same rate as 30, why would the other 27 participate?
Not every single thing added to the system should be identical for every single player. There will be things that reward PvPers. There will be things that reward hardcore PvE play. There will be things that reward RP. There will be things that reward giving PWE more money. Why should there be things that encourage isolating yourself from the first "M" in "MMO"?
That would be like putting in a reward that's only available to people who don't log in for a month, or only available to people who have spent less than $10 on Zen in the last year, or only available to people who have failed the optional objectives in 9 out of their last 10 Elite STF attempts.
There will be rewards you can't obtain without engaging in something you don't enjoy. That's not a punishment; that's a reward for somebody else. I hate running; I don't log onto running forums and complain I should get the Olympic Gold Medal for the 100 yard dash because I walk that far from my car to the office every morning, and then again from the office to the car in the evening.
FYI, I'm in a handful of small fleets (around 15-30 active players). In each fleet there exists the 27 other people that don't do contribute as most of it is done by a select few players.
I don't get what you have against letting everyone enjoy the game, if 3 people can build a starbase then great! If 500 people want to do it that's also great! Where is this sense of fairness coming from? I want to build a starbase but at the current rates/prices the cost of a starbase isn't really feasible.
If they implemented starbases so that it was linear, 100 fleet marks/player in the fleet then it wouldn't matter how big your fleet was, the same amount of work still needs to get done per person. Take a look at your leaderboard and tell me if your fleet is evenly distributed and that everyone is contributing equally.
Anyway, it doesn't matter how I think they should've done it, what matters is that it is done. My real concern is in future content, if/when they decide to add more stuff that becomes starbase tier x available only is when it will become a problem. It's already mildly started with converting fleet credits into duty officers. You want a purple? Get a higher tier starbase You want fleet ships/fleet weapons? Get a higher tier starbase.
I understand why a lot of people are upset about the SBs.
Instead of giving us a well thought out system that was customizable and would make the fleet feel PROUD, they gave us this. Why would we invite anyone to our star base? Its the exact same as theirs.
The system was very lazily created. They made a star base, didn't bother to add a bartender when the bartender mission is completed, it'll sit there saying unlock me all day long, its lazy design.
They could have easily created a modular system which allowed the fleet to add in options in different places and create a unique base. They could have even charged zen for luxury finishes and styles and you know people would pay for it. Making people happy and proud of what they build is what they want, let me invite you to our decked out SB with high end transparent or shiny finishes. Instead we got a grinding project, we got to work to build exactly the same thing as everyone else.
They could still change it, it isn't that much work to grandfather exist progress, but they won't.
Really? When? So far PVPers have to do PVE to get "PVP-grade" gear. Hell, not even Very Rare item drops for the winning team. Not even PVP marks to get a PVP set or something. PVP hasn't had unique rewards since Cryptic decided on "one currency to rule them all", then subsequently introduced two more.
I get what you're saying, by the way, but your superbowl analogy falls flat too. Some people want to get this gear their own way, I don't think anyone's suggesting it should be free. You're saying if you want to get the Superbowl Trophy, win the Superbowl, but what we want is to get A trophy that's just as good, and maybe play Rugby or Box instead. But with each new season it feels like we're being herded into playing the game how we're told if we want the "good stuff", I guess as somebody who dabbles with PVP often enough, we get the worst of this because the good stuff's more necessary. Let's face it, you can beat PVE in a stock ship in this game as long as your boff power selection is decent.
In fact, it's ironic that the toughest gameplay mode yields the most meager rewards, and the gear necessary to compete is from slogging through unchallenging PVE content for X-ammount of time until you've played the game Cryptic's way sufficiently to be allowed to do your own thing.:(
One again, I'm not blaming you, just calling it as I see it and trying to articulate why some folks are getting fed up of this starbase shindig consuming their STO experience if they want to get in on the best stuff.
Edit: The post above mine also rings very true, and that it seems like more than a few of us see it as a means to an end, not something cool and rad in and of itself, should be an alarm bell right there.
you got it wrong. starbases were designed as a time sink to buy time for cryptic to make stuff worth doing. they offer lame rewards for ludicrous prices. and drozana station works fine as a social area. 2 ) they are designed to swing the dilth xchange in cryptics favor. less dilth per zen+more zen bought to xchange for the same amount of dilth.
my point is that this whole blaze (minecraft reference) war is rather pointless, and syberghost can just close this thread now because no one here has anything to say that is relevant or helpful.
This is sort of what I was trying to express. Those of you who defend the starbase system maybe you haven't started the tier 3 stuff yet and you don't see how high the requirements are for only getting 1k or 500 xp per project. I'm part of a very large and active fleet on both the fed and kdf side, and we're already having trouble keeping things filled. The requirements are getting out of control in the later stages, "what's wrong with it taking longer"? Well I would have to say that what's wrong with that is the fact that some of you seem to be okay with the fact that all we should be doing is farming things for our starbases, I would prefer not to have to focus all my gameplay on this aspect. In other threads people want /new/ factions to be independent? So you want another faction to have to start all over on these starbases and farm all over again to get the things we're just starting to get now? It's a "long term" project I get that, but for it to be so long term that people get tired of it..
You know the saying about beating a dead horse? Or squeezing blood from a turnip?
levi you're saying exactly what I've been saying, a long term project that takes roughly a year from start to finish is fine. However, if it takes much more than that people are going to get tired of the grind and start leaving. People keep telling you "well stop grinding for awhile and have fun", but the point of a new project is to WANT to finish it? Yes? We want new things to do, to master, and then more. This is what you sign up for when you decide to develop a MMO, you say "I could make a game that could keep people's interest".
For the longest time the only thing there was to do was stf and grind gear for dil for cp for ships. ALOT of good players left, quite a few have come back with alot of the new things like the starbase that has come out. However, this is going to hold those people's interest for so long if you don't introduce something new soon. Because they're going to see it for what it is, a gimmick to try to get people's attention away from the fact they left because there was no new content.
The starbase was a good call, I think it's great, but once you start the tier 3 stuff (which costs 900 fleet marks per project btw fyi) it starts wearing on you, because to get anywhere you're spending all your time doffing, doing stfs to buy purple doffs to degrind for the doff requirements, and grinding marks. People need to stop saying that a 20-25 man fleet is capable of doing this within "X" amount of time, because my fleet has more active people than that and we're having issues with people just getting burnt out on the doff grinding for the starbase, fleet marks aren't an issue with that many people, but 60 uncommon security doffs and 140 common tactical doffs per 1k project is leaving everyone rather unhappy with the starbase reward system.
Me either. I realize building a stabase requires thousands of people and years of work put forth by the 'team' that wants it built. In game it's shown as a high requirement for a particularly skilled bunch of doffs, and tho a major outlaying of resources for a small fleet it's accurately represented and achievable by a larger fleet. A starbase would NOT EVER be built for a 5 member fleet so if one IS built for them is should be an almost impossible task- which it is.
years of work? Really? I've left lesser MMOs because they thought leveling should take years. A large fleet shouldn't take 'years' to do anything. Maybe this thread was too soon, I realize that most of you haven't even started the tier 3 stuff, let it sit for awhile, see how you feel in a couple months when you catch up.
Finally, I will say since I've been away from my own post for awhile because it turned into something of a flame fest for awhile and I got tired of listening to it.. that everyone has gotten completely off topic anyway. Each tier is giving the exact same amount of xp per tier for requiring almost double resources. It is ludicrous. tier 3 upgrades require a full week to finish and offer the exact same amount of xp per upgrade as the tier 1 upgrades. This was not meant to turn into a fan boy defense of PWE or Cryptic, or a flamefest on each other or PWE or Cryptic, merely a stand for those who have a problem with how the reward system itself works. As I said before though, lets let it stew for awhile and when the rest of the STO community starts getting burnt out on it, just remember this thread.. I promise not to say I told you so.
Comments
posted a reply and question in my thread:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=374151
I already feel like people are well in their way towards realizing the poor implementation of starbases. How often do you hear someone ask a question about what ELSE do the NPCs do in the station, what makes them different from the ones already available in our own ships or DS9, First City, ESD, etc? The answer almost always has the asking player respond with "really? for all that work??!!" I truly believe most people will slow down dramatically after Tier 3. Anyone else wanting to get a Tier 5 ship will simply buy the ability to use the Tier 5 Shipyard from one of the handful of fleets that get there first.
Maybe I'm wrong, but wasn't there talk of missions you would be able to launch (start, queu up for, etc) from your base. Presumably with your fleetmates. And you would get red alert notices like you do with the Borg Incursions when you could run to defend your base? Was all that my imagination or faulty memory or was it all simply made into the queu fleet missions? Seriously, all that time and all I see is a worse Defera, a handful of new repeatable missions and 4 new areas that make up the starbase? I think the most important content of S6 is probably the revamp of NPC enemies!
Would it have been so hard to implement something NEW in starbases? Reworked so so weapons and gear is not what we wanted (but at least it didn't outshine the STF gear, lateral choices instead of gear inflation is my preference after all, good job on knowing when to say no). We want something NEW!! Or story progression... its funny, Vibora Pay scared them from paid Xpacs so much they won't do one even now.
If I understand things right now, OP is complaining that, whether it's a "tier 1", "tier 3", or "tier 5" classXP mission, they typically only pay 500/1000 classXP. He thinks that because a "tier 3" needs over twice the materials than a "tier 1", we should get more classXP for the "tier 3" than the "tier 1".
However, I like the system as it stands now. I know that from now to tier 5, I'll have to do 10-20 missions (depending on how many I do with provisions or without) to get 10,000 classXP. Therefore, getting from the 25,000 "tier 2 point" to the 50,000 "tier 3 point" needs approx. 25-50 missions.
Does the OP really think that this 25-50 mission requirement will change if he gets more classXP per mission, or will the 50,000 classXP requirement go up with the increased earnings so that it'll take 25-50 missions to get there? And if so, how tempted would he, and his fleet, be at making, say, a tier 5 shipyard if the preview screen shows that he'll need over 1,000,000 classXP to reach it, without knowing that he'll be earning 5,000 classXP per run?
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
im sure others will struggle and it could take some people years but even if they adjust the xp given per assignment they would just up the total amounts needed. if 7 months is the minimum they want then its going to remain 7months no matter how the points are needed.
My only real grievance is that the only way to contribute is PVE.
Yes, I said it - in this case, I'm going to blame us, the victim. Every time one of us buys a silly racing uniform, every time one of us acquiesces and breaks down and buys a per-character unlock vanity item, we are to blame. We have been so damn starved for content we've been willing to accept anything thrown at us, even a blatant resource sink.
Everytime we give PWE a hall pass on this TRIBBLE, we get something that is certainly "working as intended" - for them.
Yes, the bases are supposed to take 7 months-ish. But even though we've been warned, does that make it correct? Does that make it right?Does that preclude any room for adjustment or improvement?
Me either. I realize building a stabase requires thousands of people and years of work put forth by the 'team' that wants it built. In game it's shown as a high requirement for a particularly skilled bunch of doffs, and tho a major outlaying of resources for a small fleet it's accurately represented and achievable by a larger fleet. A starbase would NOT EVER be built for a 5 member fleet so if one IS built for them is should be an almost impossible task- which it is.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
I agree with you if u speak about something like Earth Spacedock. Its big and im sure it took a lot of time, materials an manpower to built it.
But if ur at war u rly dont have the time to built a starbase that needs a year or longer to get finished.
What u need is a small, cheap base to assemble ur fleet. And as long as i can build my base only in Eta Eridani this base is the only one i would construct there.
And even a 5man fleet should be able to built something like this up in less then a year.
Every player at max level is an Admiral and commanding a crew from 100 to 1000 human beings.
Off topic: funny what cbs told me about ablative armor.
P.S.: im sorry 4 my terrible english
entirely true. i'm just miffed they didnt tell people what you would get at t5 b/c if everyone knew the TRIBBLE that starbases are loaded with (dmg mods and lame ships) then nobody would have bothered and we would have all gone back to protesting the complete lack of content we have seen recently.
This sig dedicated to the many random objects the Mythbusters crew has blow to smitherines
Okay, listen large fleet members. Our fleet will provide the opportunity to once again perform your favorite starbase building activities in our fleet, once you have completed yours. The fee will be moderate.
and thats the only reason
It seems that the current model is:
- Whats our largest fleet? Few hundred people.
- Ok, lets set the requirments so it will take a fleet of that size on average around a year to get to T5.
To my fleet of 3 people (+ a few alts) T2 is slog but we might get there in a few months
T3 looks it will take forever.
Beyond that I think it will be impossible, or to put it another way: The sheer scale of the task will erode any motivation to bother any more.
There's also the fact that whilst I'm sure it would be possible to make faster progress, I (and I assume my fleetmates) don't WANT to pour every single last scrap of our resources into the bloody base.
There is more in game to do with EC, Dil and Doffs. than chuck them down the infinite resource pit. I.e. More to STO than starbases.
Even if we did chuck our collective 100' of millions of EC and every scrap of Dil. in we'd all probably run dry half way to T4.
Sorry, but that won't ever happen, because those very same large fleets now, would just split into multiple smaller ones, with each fleet focusing on one area, thus needing smaller requirements for each fleet, while still having access to all the fleet's resources.
The projects are time gated. Reducing the resource cost wouldn't make the projects complete any faster, it would just reduce the grinding.
Grinding is boring and makes people leave.
If the goal is making people leave, then gj...
Who makes a Fleet of 1? 2 or 3? Just friend each other and attempt to be on at the same time.
If Cryptic is to do anything about the fact very small Fleets like yours are having trouble. Its to make it so you cant build LARGE starbases for three individuals. What they need to do is design different sized starbases. The larger your Fleet, the bigger your Starbase is. That way the Tiers could scale to the size. You wouldnt need as much resources for a starbase the size of the one we see in DS9 during the beginning of the Dominion War.
I think that's exactly what they have done.
The base assumption that some people have is false. Many seem to believe that every single fleet should have or be able to easily get a full-on Starbase with all the features and be equal to a large fleet.
That's not really the case, nor does it make any sense that a five member fleet would end up with a Tier V phatted-out Starbase.
My only issue with the system is the really long project times - in Tier III they can go up to 7 days. That's a week - a really long time for a project slot to be occupied. It's obviously intentional as a way to stretch the content out, but I find a week to be a bit much. And I fear it will only get worse as we further progress. Time gating is understandable, but a week in an MMO is a very long time for anything.
I think you have the wrong idea here. People in small fleets who do not want to be forced into joining a large fleet wanted to be able to enjoy the starbase content. There are advantages and disadvantages for being in a small/large fleet but it shouldn't restrict the content in the game base on the size of your fleet.
There are many ways in which they could've implemented the starbase system, they chose to do it this way. Any system where fleets/starbases are being abandoned is in my opinion a poor choice. Starbases should bring members within a fleet together and make people want to continue building them.
When people are given a reward for engaging in an action, that is not a punishment to those who do not engage in that action.
The team who loses the Super Bowl isn't being punished by not receiving a trophy.
I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. If a small fleet can progress at the same rate as a large fleet, all ability for fleets to leverage this for community building evaporates. If 3 people can progress at the same rate as 30, why would the other 27 participate?
Not every single thing added to the system should be identical for every single player. There will be things that reward PvPers. There will be things that reward hardcore PvE play. There will be things that reward RP. There will be things that reward giving PWE more money. Why should there be things that encourage isolating yourself from the first "M" in "MMO"?
That would be like putting in a reward that's only available to people who don't log in for a month, or only available to people who have spent less than $10 on Zen in the last year, or only available to people who have failed the optional objectives in 9 out of their last 10 Elite STF attempts.
There will be rewards you can't obtain without engaging in something you don't enjoy. That's not a punishment; that's a reward for somebody else. I hate running; I don't log onto running forums and complain I should get the Olympic Gold Medal for the 100 yard dash because I walk that far from my car to the office every morning, and then again from the office to the car in the evening.
FYI, I'm in a handful of small fleets (around 15-30 active players). In each fleet there exists the 27 other people that don't do contribute as most of it is done by a select few players.
I don't get what you have against letting everyone enjoy the game, if 3 people can build a starbase then great! If 500 people want to do it that's also great! Where is this sense of fairness coming from? I want to build a starbase but at the current rates/prices the cost of a starbase isn't really feasible.
If they implemented starbases so that it was linear, 100 fleet marks/player in the fleet then it wouldn't matter how big your fleet was, the same amount of work still needs to get done per person. Take a look at your leaderboard and tell me if your fleet is evenly distributed and that everyone is contributing equally.
Anyway, it doesn't matter how I think they should've done it, what matters is that it is done. My real concern is in future content, if/when they decide to add more stuff that becomes starbase tier x available only is when it will become a problem. It's already mildly started with converting fleet credits into duty officers. You want a purple? Get a higher tier starbase
Instead of giving us a well thought out system that was customizable and would make the fleet feel PROUD, they gave us this. Why would we invite anyone to our star base? Its the exact same as theirs.
The system was very lazily created. They made a star base, didn't bother to add a bartender when the bartender mission is completed, it'll sit there saying unlock me all day long, its lazy design.
They could have easily created a modular system which allowed the fleet to add in options in different places and create a unique base. They could have even charged zen for luxury finishes and styles and you know people would pay for it. Making people happy and proud of what they build is what they want, let me invite you to our decked out SB with high end transparent or shiny finishes. Instead we got a grinding project, we got to work to build exactly the same thing as everyone else.
They could still change it, it isn't that much work to grandfather exist progress, but they won't.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
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Really? When? So far PVPers have to do PVE to get "PVP-grade" gear. Hell, not even Very Rare item drops for the winning team. Not even PVP marks to get a PVP set or something. PVP hasn't had unique rewards since Cryptic decided on "one currency to rule them all", then subsequently introduced two more.
I get what you're saying, by the way, but your superbowl analogy falls flat too. Some people want to get this gear their own way, I don't think anyone's suggesting it should be free. You're saying if you want to get the Superbowl Trophy, win the Superbowl, but what we want is to get A trophy that's just as good, and maybe play Rugby or Box instead. But with each new season it feels like we're being herded into playing the game how we're told if we want the "good stuff", I guess as somebody who dabbles with PVP often enough, we get the worst of this because the good stuff's more necessary. Let's face it, you can beat PVE in a stock ship in this game as long as your boff power selection is decent.
In fact, it's ironic that the toughest gameplay mode yields the most meager rewards, and the gear necessary to compete is from slogging through unchallenging PVE content for X-ammount of time until you've played the game Cryptic's way sufficiently to be allowed to do your own thing.:(
One again, I'm not blaming you, just calling it as I see it and trying to articulate why some folks are getting fed up of this starbase shindig consuming their STO experience if they want to get in on the best stuff.
Edit: The post above mine also rings very true, and that it seems like more than a few of us see it as a means to an end, not something cool and rad in and of itself, should be an alarm bell right there.
This is sort of what I was trying to express. Those of you who defend the starbase system maybe you haven't started the tier 3 stuff yet and you don't see how high the requirements are for only getting 1k or 500 xp per project. I'm part of a very large and active fleet on both the fed and kdf side, and we're already having trouble keeping things filled. The requirements are getting out of control in the later stages, "what's wrong with it taking longer"? Well I would have to say that what's wrong with that is the fact that some of you seem to be okay with the fact that all we should be doing is farming things for our starbases, I would prefer not to have to focus all my gameplay on this aspect. In other threads people want /new/ factions to be independent? So you want another faction to have to start all over on these starbases and farm all over again to get the things we're just starting to get now? It's a "long term" project I get that, but for it to be so long term that people get tired of it..
You know the saying about beating a dead horse? Or squeezing blood from a turnip?
levi you're saying exactly what I've been saying, a long term project that takes roughly a year from start to finish is fine. However, if it takes much more than that people are going to get tired of the grind and start leaving. People keep telling you "well stop grinding for awhile and have fun", but the point of a new project is to WANT to finish it? Yes? We want new things to do, to master, and then more. This is what you sign up for when you decide to develop a MMO, you say "I could make a game that could keep people's interest".
For the longest time the only thing there was to do was stf and grind gear for dil for cp for ships. ALOT of good players left, quite a few have come back with alot of the new things like the starbase that has come out. However, this is going to hold those people's interest for so long if you don't introduce something new soon. Because they're going to see it for what it is, a gimmick to try to get people's attention away from the fact they left because there was no new content.
The starbase was a good call, I think it's great, but once you start the tier 3 stuff (which costs 900 fleet marks per project btw fyi) it starts wearing on you, because to get anywhere you're spending all your time doffing, doing stfs to buy purple doffs to degrind for the doff requirements, and grinding marks. People need to stop saying that a 20-25 man fleet is capable of doing this within "X" amount of time, because my fleet has more active people than that and we're having issues with people just getting burnt out on the doff grinding for the starbase, fleet marks aren't an issue with that many people, but 60 uncommon security doffs and 140 common tactical doffs per 1k project is leaving everyone rather unhappy with the starbase reward system.
years of work? Really? I've left lesser MMOs because they thought leveling should take years. A large fleet shouldn't take 'years' to do anything. Maybe this thread was too soon, I realize that most of you haven't even started the tier 3 stuff, let it sit for awhile, see how you feel in a couple months when you catch up.