I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. If a small fleet can progress at the same rate as a large fleet, all ability for fleets to leverage this for community building evaporates. If 3 people can progress at the same rate as 30, why would the other 27 participate?
Not every single thing added to the system should be identical for every single player. There will be things that reward PvPers. There will be things that reward hardcore PvE play. There will be things that reward RP. There will be things that reward giving PWE more money. Why should there be things that encourage isolating yourself from the first "M" in "MMO"?
That would be like putting in a reward that's only available to people who don't log in for a month, or only available to people who have spent less than $10 on Zen in the last year, or only available to people who have failed the optional objectives in 9 out of their last 10 Elite STF attempts.
There will be rewards you can't obtain without engaging in something you don't enjoy. That's not a punishment; that's a reward for somebody else. I hate running; I don't log onto running forums and complain I should get the Olympic Gold Medal for the 100 yard dash because I walk that far from my car to the office every morning, and then again from the office to the car in the evening.
FYI, I'm in a handful of small fleets (around 15-30 active players). In each fleet there exists the 27 other people that don't do contribute as most of it is done by a select few players.
I don't get what you have against letting everyone enjoy the game, if 3 people can build a starbase then great! If 500 people want to do it that's also great! Where is this sense of fairness coming from? I want to build a starbase but at the current rates/prices the cost of a starbase isn't really feasible.
If they implemented starbases so that it was linear, 100 fleet marks/player in the fleet then it wouldn't matter how big your fleet was, the same amount of work still needs to get done per person. Take a look at your leaderboard and tell me if your fleet is evenly distributed and that everyone is contributing equally.
Anyway, it doesn't matter how I think they should've done it, what matters is that it is done. My real concern is in future content, if/when they decide to add more stuff that becomes starbase tier x available only is when it will become a problem. It's already mildly started with converting fleet credits into duty officers. You want a purple? Get a higher tier starbase You want fleet ships/fleet weapons? Get a higher tier starbase.
I understand why a lot of people are upset about the SBs.
Instead of giving us a well thought out system that was customizable and would make the fleet feel PROUD, they gave us this. Why would we invite anyone to our star base? Its the exact same as theirs.
The system was very lazily created. They made a star base, didn't bother to add a bartender when the bartender mission is completed, it'll sit there saying unlock me all day long, its lazy design.
They could have easily created a modular system which allowed the fleet to add in options in different places and create a unique base. They could have even charged zen for luxury finishes and styles and you know people would pay for it. Making people happy and proud of what they build is what they want, let me invite you to our decked out SB with high end transparent or shiny finishes. Instead we got a grinding project, we got to work to build exactly the same thing as everyone else.
They could still change it, it isn't that much work to grandfather exist progress, but they won't.
Really? When? So far PVPers have to do PVE to get "PVP-grade" gear. Hell, not even Very Rare item drops for the winning team. Not even PVP marks to get a PVP set or something. PVP hasn't had unique rewards since Cryptic decided on "one currency to rule them all", then subsequently introduced two more.
I get what you're saying, by the way, but your superbowl analogy falls flat too. Some people want to get this gear their own way, I don't think anyone's suggesting it should be free. You're saying if you want to get the Superbowl Trophy, win the Superbowl, but what we want is to get A trophy that's just as good, and maybe play Rugby or Box instead. But with each new season it feels like we're being herded into playing the game how we're told if we want the "good stuff", I guess as somebody who dabbles with PVP often enough, we get the worst of this because the good stuff's more necessary. Let's face it, you can beat PVE in a stock ship in this game as long as your boff power selection is decent.
In fact, it's ironic that the toughest gameplay mode yields the most meager rewards, and the gear necessary to compete is from slogging through unchallenging PVE content for X-ammount of time until you've played the game Cryptic's way sufficiently to be allowed to do your own thing.:(
One again, I'm not blaming you, just calling it as I see it and trying to articulate why some folks are getting fed up of this starbase shindig consuming their STO experience if they want to get in on the best stuff.
Edit: The post above mine also rings very true, and that it seems like more than a few of us see it as a means to an end, not something cool and rad in and of itself, should be an alarm bell right there.
you got it wrong. starbases were designed as a time sink to buy time for cryptic to make stuff worth doing. they offer lame rewards for ludicrous prices. and drozana station works fine as a social area. 2 ) they are designed to swing the dilth xchange in cryptics favor. less dilth per zen+more zen bought to xchange for the same amount of dilth.
my point is that this whole blaze (minecraft reference) war is rather pointless, and syberghost can just close this thread now because no one here has anything to say that is relevant or helpful.
This is sort of what I was trying to express. Those of you who defend the starbase system maybe you haven't started the tier 3 stuff yet and you don't see how high the requirements are for only getting 1k or 500 xp per project. I'm part of a very large and active fleet on both the fed and kdf side, and we're already having trouble keeping things filled. The requirements are getting out of control in the later stages, "what's wrong with it taking longer"? Well I would have to say that what's wrong with that is the fact that some of you seem to be okay with the fact that all we should be doing is farming things for our starbases, I would prefer not to have to focus all my gameplay on this aspect. In other threads people want /new/ factions to be independent? So you want another faction to have to start all over on these starbases and farm all over again to get the things we're just starting to get now? It's a "long term" project I get that, but for it to be so long term that people get tired of it..
You know the saying about beating a dead horse? Or squeezing blood from a turnip?
levi you're saying exactly what I've been saying, a long term project that takes roughly a year from start to finish is fine. However, if it takes much more than that people are going to get tired of the grind and start leaving. People keep telling you "well stop grinding for awhile and have fun", but the point of a new project is to WANT to finish it? Yes? We want new things to do, to master, and then more. This is what you sign up for when you decide to develop a MMO, you say "I could make a game that could keep people's interest".
For the longest time the only thing there was to do was stf and grind gear for dil for cp for ships. ALOT of good players left, quite a few have come back with alot of the new things like the starbase that has come out. However, this is going to hold those people's interest for so long if you don't introduce something new soon. Because they're going to see it for what it is, a gimmick to try to get people's attention away from the fact they left because there was no new content.
The starbase was a good call, I think it's great, but once you start the tier 3 stuff (which costs 900 fleet marks per project btw fyi) it starts wearing on you, because to get anywhere you're spending all your time doffing, doing stfs to buy purple doffs to degrind for the doff requirements, and grinding marks. People need to stop saying that a 20-25 man fleet is capable of doing this within "X" amount of time, because my fleet has more active people than that and we're having issues with people just getting burnt out on the doff grinding for the starbase, fleet marks aren't an issue with that many people, but 60 uncommon security doffs and 140 common tactical doffs per 1k project is leaving everyone rather unhappy with the starbase reward system.
Me either. I realize building a stabase requires thousands of people and years of work put forth by the 'team' that wants it built. In game it's shown as a high requirement for a particularly skilled bunch of doffs, and tho a major outlaying of resources for a small fleet it's accurately represented and achievable by a larger fleet. A starbase would NOT EVER be built for a 5 member fleet so if one IS built for them is should be an almost impossible task- which it is.
years of work? Really? I've left lesser MMOs because they thought leveling should take years. A large fleet shouldn't take 'years' to do anything. Maybe this thread was too soon, I realize that most of you haven't even started the tier 3 stuff, let it sit for awhile, see how you feel in a couple months when you catch up.
Finally, I will say since I've been away from my own post for awhile because it turned into something of a flame fest for awhile and I got tired of listening to it.. that everyone has gotten completely off topic anyway. Each tier is giving the exact same amount of xp per tier for requiring almost double resources. It is ludicrous. tier 3 upgrades require a full week to finish and offer the exact same amount of xp per upgrade as the tier 1 upgrades. This was not meant to turn into a fan boy defense of PWE or Cryptic, or a flamefest on each other or PWE or Cryptic, merely a stand for those who have a problem with how the reward system itself works. As I said before though, lets let it stew for awhile and when the rest of the STO community starts getting burnt out on it, just remember this thread.. I promise not to say I told you so.
Comments
FYI, I'm in a handful of small fleets (around 15-30 active players). In each fleet there exists the 27 other people that don't do contribute as most of it is done by a select few players.
I don't get what you have against letting everyone enjoy the game, if 3 people can build a starbase then great! If 500 people want to do it that's also great! Where is this sense of fairness coming from? I want to build a starbase but at the current rates/prices the cost of a starbase isn't really feasible.
If they implemented starbases so that it was linear, 100 fleet marks/player in the fleet then it wouldn't matter how big your fleet was, the same amount of work still needs to get done per person. Take a look at your leaderboard and tell me if your fleet is evenly distributed and that everyone is contributing equally.
Anyway, it doesn't matter how I think they should've done it, what matters is that it is done. My real concern is in future content, if/when they decide to add more stuff that becomes starbase tier x available only is when it will become a problem. It's already mildly started with converting fleet credits into duty officers. You want a purple? Get a higher tier starbase
Instead of giving us a well thought out system that was customizable and would make the fleet feel PROUD, they gave us this. Why would we invite anyone to our star base? Its the exact same as theirs.
The system was very lazily created. They made a star base, didn't bother to add a bartender when the bartender mission is completed, it'll sit there saying unlock me all day long, its lazy design.
They could have easily created a modular system which allowed the fleet to add in options in different places and create a unique base. They could have even charged zen for luxury finishes and styles and you know people would pay for it. Making people happy and proud of what they build is what they want, let me invite you to our decked out SB with high end transparent or shiny finishes. Instead we got a grinding project, we got to work to build exactly the same thing as everyone else.
They could still change it, it isn't that much work to grandfather exist progress, but they won't.
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Really? When? So far PVPers have to do PVE to get "PVP-grade" gear. Hell, not even Very Rare item drops for the winning team. Not even PVP marks to get a PVP set or something. PVP hasn't had unique rewards since Cryptic decided on "one currency to rule them all", then subsequently introduced two more.
I get what you're saying, by the way, but your superbowl analogy falls flat too. Some people want to get this gear their own way, I don't think anyone's suggesting it should be free. You're saying if you want to get the Superbowl Trophy, win the Superbowl, but what we want is to get A trophy that's just as good, and maybe play Rugby or Box instead. But with each new season it feels like we're being herded into playing the game how we're told if we want the "good stuff", I guess as somebody who dabbles with PVP often enough, we get the worst of this because the good stuff's more necessary. Let's face it, you can beat PVE in a stock ship in this game as long as your boff power selection is decent.
In fact, it's ironic that the toughest gameplay mode yields the most meager rewards, and the gear necessary to compete is from slogging through unchallenging PVE content for X-ammount of time until you've played the game Cryptic's way sufficiently to be allowed to do your own thing.:(
One again, I'm not blaming you, just calling it as I see it and trying to articulate why some folks are getting fed up of this starbase shindig consuming their STO experience if they want to get in on the best stuff.
Edit: The post above mine also rings very true, and that it seems like more than a few of us see it as a means to an end, not something cool and rad in and of itself, should be an alarm bell right there.
This is sort of what I was trying to express. Those of you who defend the starbase system maybe you haven't started the tier 3 stuff yet and you don't see how high the requirements are for only getting 1k or 500 xp per project. I'm part of a very large and active fleet on both the fed and kdf side, and we're already having trouble keeping things filled. The requirements are getting out of control in the later stages, "what's wrong with it taking longer"? Well I would have to say that what's wrong with that is the fact that some of you seem to be okay with the fact that all we should be doing is farming things for our starbases, I would prefer not to have to focus all my gameplay on this aspect. In other threads people want /new/ factions to be independent? So you want another faction to have to start all over on these starbases and farm all over again to get the things we're just starting to get now? It's a "long term" project I get that, but for it to be so long term that people get tired of it..
You know the saying about beating a dead horse? Or squeezing blood from a turnip?
levi you're saying exactly what I've been saying, a long term project that takes roughly a year from start to finish is fine. However, if it takes much more than that people are going to get tired of the grind and start leaving. People keep telling you "well stop grinding for awhile and have fun", but the point of a new project is to WANT to finish it? Yes? We want new things to do, to master, and then more. This is what you sign up for when you decide to develop a MMO, you say "I could make a game that could keep people's interest".
For the longest time the only thing there was to do was stf and grind gear for dil for cp for ships. ALOT of good players left, quite a few have come back with alot of the new things like the starbase that has come out. However, this is going to hold those people's interest for so long if you don't introduce something new soon. Because they're going to see it for what it is, a gimmick to try to get people's attention away from the fact they left because there was no new content.
The starbase was a good call, I think it's great, but once you start the tier 3 stuff (which costs 900 fleet marks per project btw fyi) it starts wearing on you, because to get anywhere you're spending all your time doffing, doing stfs to buy purple doffs to degrind for the doff requirements, and grinding marks. People need to stop saying that a 20-25 man fleet is capable of doing this within "X" amount of time, because my fleet has more active people than that and we're having issues with people just getting burnt out on the doff grinding for the starbase, fleet marks aren't an issue with that many people, but 60 uncommon security doffs and 140 common tactical doffs per 1k project is leaving everyone rather unhappy with the starbase reward system.
years of work? Really? I've left lesser MMOs because they thought leveling should take years. A large fleet shouldn't take 'years' to do anything. Maybe this thread was too soon, I realize that most of you haven't even started the tier 3 stuff, let it sit for awhile, see how you feel in a couple months when you catch up.