1.
2. The difference between 50 and 100 Weapons energy is a buff of +100% damage, not +200%.
()
that dmg lose on 8km can be 50% not 70 is possible.
but 50% vs 100% i dont know if it scale 1:1.
but i know i loose insane dmg if i switch from
from 125 to 70 thats a total of 55 energy lowering that ends fr me in 650dmg in autoattak to 280dmg so its ~180% dmg loose with 55 energy points.
Multiply an escorts DPS by 15
Multiply a cruisers by 45
compare
As a cruiser is on target for 45 seconds and an escort for 15 (if its played as an escort)
not talking static turret escorts here (very high damage totally useless to the team)
You know I thought a while after posting that I'd dropped the ball a little by issuing a challenge across a web forum. It's the kind of TRIBBLE I normally don't pull and it makes me look like a bellend.
But then you go and post this nonsense. And what's more, you believe it.
I can keep things in front of me for much longer than 15 seconds at a time without dying, even in groups of 5 Escorts with no cross-healing. You're pulling stuff out of your backside to try and justify your belief that the damaging dealing class of starship doesn't actually deal the most damage, when in actual fact a properly built and flown Escort will out-DPS a properly built and flown anything else. That is an Escort's job.
I'm not saying you need 5 Escorts in STFs and that Cruisers are useless. That's an attitude that annoys me as well as you. What I am saying, though, is that Escorts deal the most damage. Nothing wrong with Cruisers or Carriers, but Escorts will always win the damage battle if their pilot has a brain.
We can test this plain and simple - We both go into an Infected run, and I'll fire up my combat parser. We'll forget DPS becuase you have some sort of belief it's inaccurate, and go for total damage over the STF. I will beat you on that (because I beat every cruiser I've parsed myself against, and if I didn't, I should stop playing the game) rendering any nonsense about multiplying DPS over the match irrelevant.
I don't have an expendable RA at the moment (I do each arc of STF exactly once) as assimilated is dead (sort of a house rule) but next time i have someone running the gauntlet ill try and get in touch with you and rig a ship specially to demonstrate this
but you talk about escort pilots with brains
Well I saw TWO escort pilots sit within 5 km of the starbase and turn on the spot for an entire fleet alert
Interestingly they both blew up a LOT
they seemed to think the han solo mode (turrets top and bottom) would be most efficient
it isn't
an escort is basically a very large fighter
its job is to swoop and sweep
its not DESIGNED to win battles on its own (nor is a standard class cruiser)
That's true enough. You know you're not optomising your DPS, and are making the decision to do that. I don't see why, since Rainbows don't give you anything pratical in exchange for the DPS loss. I'm sure you can get by in spite of it, but I could get by just fine by removing a DHC from my Armitage and leaving the slot empty, it still doesn't make it a good idea. But you understand the game mechanics. Which means you probably understand a lot about the game and play to a decent level accordingly, even with rainbows.
But most people with rainbows simply don't realise that they're gimping their damage output. And if they don't do enough critical thinking to realise that a Phaser Relay gives a greater damage boost than a Directed Energy Modulator when it's written in front of them, then chances are there's lots of stuff they don't realise about the game - such as power leves, console selection and that blowing up Nanite generators sequentially instead of simultaneously makes bad things happen.
Hence why it's associated with noobishness, and why most ships firing rainbows tend to do about as much damage as a stiff solar wind.
And when you say 'several seasons ago' when do you mean? Because it was an even worse idea to run Rainbows when I started playing the game (December 2010) than it is now.
I'm a 400 day vet. I started playing a few months before the debut of Duty officers. At that time, Phaser Relays had (approximately) the same bonus as Directed energy manifolds. Then again, back then they were more confusing....
A lot of NooBs have no optimization to their ships at all, and run random weapons that have the best damage they can find. Honestly.... it's not a very bad policy if you're a commander or lower... at that level you're better off using cobbled-together junk and focussing on leveling. Sure optimization would increase your DPS and survivability in missions, but by the time you got your ship optimized the gear would be obsolete due to you leveling....
Now that I think about it.... Wasn't the Phaser skill and the other damage type skills Admiral level stuff? that might explain why I never bothered... None of my chars made admiral before Doffs were added to the game.
Anyways, the way things work currently, the bonus of tactical consoles is calculated seperately from other damage boosts, and honestly isn't awe inspiring....
Number shaped objects:
Antiproton beam array MK XI [CrtH][Dmg]x2
With 2 +16.2% consoles: 208.2 DPS (It's a first edition Oddy, it only has 2 tac console slots)
With 1 console: 195.2 DPS
with no consoles: 182.2 DPS
sooo... I get +13 DPS per console, sure I could do somewhat higher damage with damage type consoles, but meh....
I'm a 400 day vet. I started playing a few months before the debut of Duty officers. At that time, Phaser Relays had (approximately) the same bonus as Directed energy manifolds. Then again, back then they were more confusing....
A lot of NooBs have no optimization to their ships at all, and run random weapons that have the best damage they can find. Honestly.... it's not a very bad policy if you're a commander or lower... at that level you're better off using cobbled-together junk and focussing on leveling. Sure optimization would increase your DPS and survivability in missions, but by the time you got your ship optimized the gear would be obsolete due to you leveling....
Now that I think about it.... Wasn't the Phaser skill and the other damage type skills Admiral level stuff? that might explain why I never bothered... None of my chars made admiral before Doffs were added to the game.
Anyways, the way things work currently, the bonus of tactical consoles is calculated seperately from other damage boosts, and honestly isn't awe inspiring....
Number shaped objects:
Antiproton beam array MK XI [CrtH][Dmg]x2
With 2 +16.2% consoles: 208.2 DPS (It's a first edition Oddy, it only has 2 tac console slots)
With 1 console: 195.2 DPS
with no consoles: 182.2 DPS
sooo... I get +13 DPS per console, sure I could do somewhat higher damage with damage type consoles, but meh....
multiply it by 8 (number of beam arrays) and the multiply it by 2 (weapon power at 100+) so its about 450 dps boost, which is 225 per consol. thats big for a cruiser, even more effect on an escort, which means big dps loss on skittle boat.
When in doubt, (hehe) c4!
This sig dedicated to the many random objects the Mythbusters crew has blow to smitherines
Now that I think about it.... Wasn't the Phaser skill and the other damage type skills Admiral level stuff? that might explain why I never bothered... None of my chars made admiral before Doffs were added to the game.
My recollection, which may be wrong, is that the energy specific skills were spaced across three different tiers. Antiproton and Polaron were RA, Tet & Plasma (I think) were Captain and Phaser and Disruptor were Commander skills. They had a bigger effect than the difference in the consoles, so rainbowing was a worse idea than now. Now you could have skillpoints in more than 1 energy type and therefore rainbow effectively, but it'd be a waste of skillpoints towards a single energy build. Plus there was a lot of QQing about how unfair it was to have to spend 2x as much Skillpoints to max Antiproton as max phaser. So that's why it got cut in the skillpoint change.
Anyways, the way things work currently, the bonus of tactical consoles is calculated seperately from other damage boosts, and honestly isn't awe inspiring....
Number shaped objects:
Antiproton beam array MK XI [CrtH][Dmg]x2
With 2 +16.2% consoles: 208.2 DPS (It's a first edition Oddy, it only has 2 tac console slots)
With 1 console: 195.2 DPS
with no consoles: 182.2 DPS
sooo... I get +13 DPS per console, sure I could do somewhat higher damage with damage type consoles, but meh....
Yeah, it something you can get by without. But there's no trade-off for it. You don't really get anything in return for the damage loss because the weapons don't proc enough for you to mix the procs as a viable tactic. So that's why I avoid it.
Also, I think any buffs you deploy in game are on top of your console bonuses. I'm not 100% sure though.
On topic, it wasn't a mission fail or anything, but I had an STF today where the rest of the team seemed to be doing so little damage that I pulled all the aggro every time I opened fire. In a beamboat Kar'Fi (cos I can't manouvre one of those things nearly well enough for a cannon build) that relies on it's fighters for about a third of its damage output. Can't remember the last time I died 4 times in Infected.
lets go back to bad stf experiences before syber comes in with his 'banwagon' and destroys the longest standing no-necroed thread in sto history
OK. I'll bite.
Yesterday in a KASE, myself and a cruiser had finished clearing our side and started on the gateway. At this point, I glanced over to see how the others were getting on on the far side. It turned out that a pair of Escorts had managed to pull both their (left) side's cubes into the middle of that area, beside the gateway. They'd somehow killed both Transformers (it's possible our 5th team member had helped with this before they quit the match) but couldn't make any progress on the gateway itself. Every time they tried to dart in-and-out to fire at the gate or the Cubes, they kept being tractored and killed. The few times they didn't get tractored on their first attack run, they retreated as soon as they started taking any damage.
Oh yes, and every single probe was getting past them.
This sort of thing is just plain painful to watch.
Eventually once my Armitage was done fighting both their cubes simultaneously (by parking directly underneath one to keep out of the way of its Torpedo Arcs, and just plain weathering the damage from the second one), I flew it precisely 8.5KM away from the gateway, parked there, and proceeded to both demolish the gate and take care of every single probe that spawned.
It's such a shame some Escort pilots don't realise the capabilities of their ship. Ignoring how survivable you can make yourself and treating everything like a hit-and-run is just plain silly. But of course, everyone in here already knows that... right? :P
Yeah, it something you can get by without. But there's no trade-off for it. You don't really get anything in return for the damage loss because the weapons don't proc enough for you to mix the procs as a viable tactic. So that's why I avoid it.
Also, I think any buffs you deploy in game are on top of your console bonuses. I'm not 100% sure though.
IIRC I started building a Rainbow ship right after season 5 release... I'm not sure exactly though... Anyways though, that char has a ship that focuses more on durability(2xEptS, HE, etc) than firepower, although she does have a few offensive skills(HYT, FaW, VWP) Anyways though, I only have 1 out of 11 chars that actually uses a rainbow ship, the others each have an assigned damage type because of the DPS thing... Most use either Phasers or Disruptors, although one plays a Pyro build with Plasma beams and Harghs.
multiply it by 8 (number of beam arrays) and the multiply it by 2 (weapon power at 100+) so its about 450 dps boost, which is 225 per consol. thats big for a cruiser, even more effect on an escort, which means big dps loss on skittle boat.
Uh... not really. You'd have to have either an insanely good plan, or flat out insanity to run 8 Beam arrays. It takes a LOT to keep from having your power levels crash when using 8 arrays. So I'm not doing it. And no I don't have 100+ weapon power.... It's a tank build.... not a DPS build.
You'd have to have either an insanely good plan, or flat out insanity to run 8 Beam arrays. It takes a LOT to keep from having your power levels crash when using 8 arrays. So I'm not doing it. And no I don't have 100+ weapon power.... It's a tank build.... not a DPS build.
I'm curious how you'd hold aggro for tanking things on such a build.
If any of my cruiser tank builds (and I do have a few) ran with less than maximum Weapons Power and heavy investment into the "Starship Threat Control" skill, they wouldn't be able to hold aggro over a competent Escort. Damage output plays a large role in generating sufficient levels of hate on a foe for "tanking".
As an aside, I've never been fond of 8 arrays either (preferring a 2x Torp and 6x Array setup for additional spike damage) but if you're hitting 100 weapons power or higher, you won't need to worry about losing any DPS via power drain by taking 8 beams over 7 beams.
I had a good one today. It was a cure normal space. I flew left like normal and noticed that everyone else went right. Two headed to the kang and one guy just yelled Noobs and left. This leaves 4.
I stood my ground and took on the right nodes, then the cube. I was watching an escort at the kang anialating anything that got too close. Two people, both with rainbow beams, were working on the left cube. I killed my cube and went on to the second.
Now keep in mind, I'm running an odessy with disrupters and a single torpedo launcher. I have 1 XII and the rest at a mix of X and XI.
I'm working on the second cube, the two rainbow warriors are working on the third and the escort is still doing a great job at the kang.
I kill the second cube with no help from anyone and head off to the third. The two rainbow warriors still have two nodes to go!
I finish everything off for them and we still have one minute to spare.
So much for rainbow warriors having any kind of dps.
just for fun a sad story what happend to me yesterday,
first time a KASE fail for me:/
jump in with 5 players 1 player loged out for unknown reason or DC so we are 4 in the mission delete cube works nice not fast but works afther that drama start i jump to first nanite generator to knok them out most times 2 random players take defense vortex position automatikly, not this time after i cleared fast first gen i noticed 4 probes pas vortex so i jump there to check out what not works then i see NOBODY protect vortex afther player 4 noticed the same he log out with no coment.
i take defense position but my big fail i am running at moment on a carrier says jump from side 1 to 2 in serious time to protect both sides no way turnrate is much to lame for that gamestyle so i ask in teamchat a secound player for vortex prot , no coment.....
afther ~6 min a random player 4 jump into the mission and his first words are **** i warp into a ****ed up mission i say yes sorry , he make no coment flight 50km away and simply go afk player 1+2 what stil in mission with me reach afther ~7 min to aktivate 2 cubes but they dont kill them they fly away after they was 2 times killed and attak random nonsense the free flying cubes come to me.:D
so i have to handle 2 sides probes solo+2 cubes now so i also decide to stop try to win the total desaster on any way.....
sad sad sad first time i see a KASE failing, only 2 vortex protectors neeedet thats all and that was not possible with 3 players.......
IIRC I started building a Rainbow ship right after season 5 release... I'm not sure exactly though... Anyways though, that char has a ship that focuses more on durability(2xEptS, HE, etc) than firepower, although she does have a few offensive skills(HYT, FaW, VWP) Anyways though, I only have 1 out of 11 chars that actually uses a rainbow ship, the others each have an assigned damage type because of the DPS thing... Most use either Phasers or Disruptors, although one plays a Pyro build with Plasma beams and Harghs.Uh... not really. You'd have to have either an insanely good plan, or flat out insanity to run 8 Beam arrays. It takes a LOT to keep from having your power levels crash when using 8 arrays. So I'm not doing it. And no I don't have 100+ weapon power.... It's a tank build.... not a DPS build.
eptw1+eptw3 spam. keeps my weapon power at 80+ running 8 beam arrays all using faw.
which ship aer you using? mine's a tank, but a tank always has SOME kind of gun the dragon tank layout only works with the bo layout form the assult cruiser, star cruiser, or oddy.
When in doubt, (hehe) c4!
This sig dedicated to the many random objects the Mythbusters crew has blow to smitherines
eptw1+eptw3 spam. keeps my weapon power at 80+ running 8 beam arrays all using faw.
which ship aer you using? mine's a tank, but a tank always has SOME kind of gun the dragon tank layout only works with the bo layout form the assult cruiser, star cruiser, or oddy.
Ah, I usually use EptS, I should check, but I think they share a CD.
I can usually hold their attention by shooting Hargs at them. AIs get POed by that.
the only ship what can take endless dmg is the tholian carrier any other ship is TRIBBLE in compare to it.
and exactly you cry in 1 shot threat that you are always dead from invis thinks what kill you anywhere MR tank.
I can tank well enough with my Ody, thank you very much. And I would never use one of the butt-ugly tholian ships, they don't fit in the ST universe at all.
The tank was me and I don't get one shot with my tank character.
the only ship what can take endless dmg is the tholian carrier any other ship is TRIBBLE in compare to it.
and exactly you cry in 1 shot threat that you are always dead from invis thinks what kill you anywhere MR tank.
A "tank" is a ship (or character) that can take massive amounts of damage from a target while the rest of the team takes it down. They're the one that should be holding aggro. Pretty basic MMO terminology.
Carriers aren't the only ships that can tank either. With the right buffs, heals, consoles, etc. almost any ship can do it. Even the easy-to-shatter escorts.
Now, more horror stories and less "my ship is better than yours" chatting. :P
Speaking of which... I ran Infected Space this morning. I don't remember if it was elite or normal though... probably normal. Figured it'd be a good game because I saw a couple of veteran passives on the other players.
LOLNOPE. The cube and first spheres went down okay, but then three or four people all started shooting at the same generator. They were taking a while, so I dropped mine to 10% and went for a second. One of them immediately popped the generator I'd just left. >.<
Took forever to get the transformers down on each side, then one of them goes and aggros the tac cube instead of targeting the gate. I never shot at the thing, but it promptly switched to shooting at me anyway. Maybe it didn't like me shooting at the gate. :rolleyes:
I've not been doing any STF's lately, just Fleet missions soooo......
There I was....
I come in, type 'Hi" as usual.
No responce.
Fleet mission players are usually pretty good about responding and saying Hi back.
The mission starts, I hit escape to kill the intro and what do I see???
Nobody Shooting!!!! :eek:
After about a minute I say, 'Anybody going to help?'
Someone says, 'We're just here for the stuff.'
I'm thinking, what stuff? The stuff we get out of these is junk and these are mostly for Fleet Credits!
I just stop shooting.
Some guy starts calling us all noobes and he comes in with Rainbow/Tecnicolor beams. Then someone else starts shooting with Skittles. I'm just thinking OH GOODY!
They aren't doing any damage.
I type, 'Please take your weapons off stun!'
Nobody does.
Someone says FU.
By now everyone is shooting. Everyone but me is firing Rainbow/Technicolor beams or Skittles cannons.
We made it through the second wave and lost the mission.
Yes, Skittles and Rainbow/Technicolor beams will do the same damage OVER TIME as any well built escort with cannons. But we don't have hours to complete these missions.
A "tank" is a ship (or character) that can take massive amounts of damage from a target while the rest of the team takes it down. They're the one that should be holding aggro. Pretty basic MMO terminology.
Carriers aren't the only ships that can tank either. With the right buffs, heals, consoles, etc. almost any ship can do it. Even the easy-to-shatter escorts.
:
the ship takes dmg you say it, and what ship have highest ingame stats?
exaxtly that what i sayed.;)
no other ship can take this amount of dmg what the one what i have sayed, and that makes it to the only real tank ingame.
any ship can buff or whatever but it not helps on any way a low hull ship will always have low hull or shild.
A Tank doesn't do enough damage. You need one tank and at least about 3 dds.
And a carrier is never a good dd.
dd?
i think this end in a endless discussion....
lets do the test i say i outdps you on any way with a RAINBOW carrier.
you can use what you want!!!!
my offer for the test you + me + 3 others go into KASE 3 go protect vortex you clear one side solo i clear other side solo, who is faster wins. affraid? if not tell it we make a time when we meat us.;)
the only ship what can take endless dmg is the tholian carrier any other ship is TRIBBLE in compare to it.
"Taking damage" does NOT make you a tank.
"Taking damage" and "Holding aggro" makes you a tank.
A Tholian Carrier can be built to survive more damage than most other ships in the game... but if you build it that way, then the damage it puts out will be too low to reliably hold the attention of enemies. So that setup becomes pretty much pointless.
There is no reason to become more survivable than you need to be at the expense of damage output - and there are other ships that are much better at finding the optimum balance between Damage output and Survivability than the Tholian Carrier.
And to relate it slightly to the thread, I saw someone in a Freebee Odyssey try to "Tank" Donatra earlier this evening. They stayed alive, and made a pretty lightshow, but they never once had aggro the entire fight.
A Tholian Carrier can be built to survive more damage than most other ships in the game... but if you build it that way, then the damage it puts out will be too low to reliably hold the attention of enemies. So that setup becomes pretty much pointless.
.
challange me say me a time tomorrow and we make the run who clears faster a side in KASE solo.;)
the only ship what can take endless dmg is the tholian carrier any other ship is TRIBBLE in compare to it.
and exactly you cry in 1 shot threat that you are always dead from invis thinks what kill you anywhere MR tank.
stats = not that important.
console slots = quite important.
bo layout = the most important.
the tholian ship has a science oriented layout- it has the most sci slots of any ship in the game (bops discluded). assuming when we say endless damage, we do not count any of the cheap one shot weapons, any ship can do that. a tank has a secondary roll thats either A)cc, b)healing or, in the case of the exel and sovi, C) decent damge. the tholian carrier is a class 'A' ship, in that its bo layout makes it optimal for cc and tanking. my 'nx' oddy has a layout which i use for the 'dragon tank' setup (search it- theres a thread about it somewhere) and i can keep all my 8 beams firing at 80+ wep power, so my ship is class 'C', tanking and decent damage. i have nothing against the tholian carrier, but it is not the best ship in the game. there is no best ship in the game. a ship's awesomeness is directly porportional to the skill of the dude in the pilot seat.
/end rant
thanks for reading!
When in doubt, (hehe) c4!
This sig dedicated to the many random objects the Mythbusters crew has blow to smitherines
there is a best ship ingame its called karfi much more firepower , but i say i outdps with the tholian -1 console -1 weapon to karfi anyone in this threat!!!!!
who will challange me say it we make a movie about this run finally and post it here in this threat to show anyone the result+ i sayed the tholian cant die in a STF for this we can also make a test in STFs.
who is interested say it.
7 min STF runs become boring i need new challenge.:D
i start a new threat for this in PVE section, here is it wrong placed, pls check new threat REAl power of the ships in STO.
tank is what?
the only ship what can take endless dmg is the tholian carrier any other ship is TRIBBLE in compare to it.
"Taking damage" does NOT make you a tank. "Taking damage"and"Holding aggro" makes you a tank.
A Tholian Carrier can be built to survive more damage than most other ships in the game... but if you build it that way, then the damage it puts out will be too low to reliably hold the attention of enemies. So that setup becomes pretty much pointless.
challange Me Say Me A Time Tomorrow And We Make The Run Who Clears Faster A Side In Kase Solo.;)
You are NOT going to be able to use your Tholian Carrier's Universal Commander slot for Heals/Buffs and still hold aggro over a decently equipped + pilotted Escort, especially on a Skittle build. Your Damage output is going to be split between you and your fighters, and you won't have the Tactical BOFF slots to match the Escort's DPS. It's just plain not happening. If you switch the Universal Commander slot to a Tac BOFF, then your DPS will rise, but you'll be less survivable. You can't have it both ways.
If you chose to slot the Tac BOFF then I'm sure you'll perform better in PVE. I'm not debating that, because PVE does not require lots of survivability. But even if the Tholian Carrier was capable of putting out the highest-damage in the game, it should be self-evident that bragging about your ship's capacity for large amounts of damage is futile whilst you are simultaneously limiting its damage potential by running multiple energytypes.
That said, have fun in your new thread.
I'm sure you'll find plenty of people to take you up on your challenge there
Comments
that dmg lose on 8km can be 50% not 70 is possible.
but 50% vs 100% i dont know if it scale 1:1.
but i know i loose insane dmg if i switch from
from 125 to 70 thats a total of 55 energy lowering that ends fr me in 650dmg in autoattak to 280dmg so its ~180% dmg loose with 55 energy points.
You know I thought a while after posting that I'd dropped the ball a little by issuing a challenge across a web forum. It's the kind of TRIBBLE I normally don't pull and it makes me look like a bellend.
But then you go and post this nonsense. And what's more, you believe it.
I can keep things in front of me for much longer than 15 seconds at a time without dying, even in groups of 5 Escorts with no cross-healing. You're pulling stuff out of your backside to try and justify your belief that the damaging dealing class of starship doesn't actually deal the most damage, when in actual fact a properly built and flown Escort will out-DPS a properly built and flown anything else. That is an Escort's job.
I'm not saying you need 5 Escorts in STFs and that Cruisers are useless. That's an attitude that annoys me as well as you. What I am saying, though, is that Escorts deal the most damage. Nothing wrong with Cruisers or Carriers, but Escorts will always win the damage battle if their pilot has a brain.
We can test this plain and simple - We both go into an Infected run, and I'll fire up my combat parser. We'll forget DPS becuase you have some sort of belief it's inaccurate, and go for total damage over the STF. I will beat you on that (because I beat every cruiser I've parsed myself against, and if I didn't, I should stop playing the game) rendering any nonsense about multiplying DPS over the match irrelevant.
but you talk about escort pilots with brains
Well I saw TWO escort pilots sit within 5 km of the starbase and turn on the spot for an entire fleet alert
Interestingly they both blew up a LOT
they seemed to think the han solo mode (turrets top and bottom) would be most efficient
it isn't
an escort is basically a very large fighter
its job is to swoop and sweep
its not DESIGNED to win battles on its own (nor is a standard class cruiser)
A lot of NooBs have no optimization to their ships at all, and run random weapons that have the best damage they can find. Honestly.... it's not a very bad policy if you're a commander or lower... at that level you're better off using cobbled-together junk and focussing on leveling. Sure optimization would increase your DPS and survivability in missions, but by the time you got your ship optimized the gear would be obsolete due to you leveling....
Now that I think about it.... Wasn't the Phaser skill and the other damage type skills Admiral level stuff? that might explain why I never bothered... None of my chars made admiral before Doffs were added to the game.
Anyways, the way things work currently, the bonus of tactical consoles is calculated seperately from other damage boosts, and honestly isn't awe inspiring....
Number shaped objects:
Antiproton beam array MK XI [CrtH][Dmg]x2
With 2 +16.2% consoles: 208.2 DPS (It's a first edition Oddy, it only has 2 tac console slots)
With 1 console: 195.2 DPS
with no consoles: 182.2 DPS
sooo... I get +13 DPS per console, sure I could do somewhat higher damage with damage type consoles, but meh....
My character Tsin'xing
multiply it by 8 (number of beam arrays) and the multiply it by 2 (weapon power at 100+) so its about 450 dps boost, which is 225 per consol. thats big for a cruiser, even more effect on an escort, which means big dps loss on skittle boat.
This sig dedicated to the many random objects the Mythbusters crew has blow to smitherines
This sig dedicated to the many random objects the Mythbusters crew has blow to smitherines
My recollection, which may be wrong, is that the energy specific skills were spaced across three different tiers. Antiproton and Polaron were RA, Tet & Plasma (I think) were Captain and Phaser and Disruptor were Commander skills. They had a bigger effect than the difference in the consoles, so rainbowing was a worse idea than now. Now you could have skillpoints in more than 1 energy type and therefore rainbow effectively, but it'd be a waste of skillpoints towards a single energy build. Plus there was a lot of QQing about how unfair it was to have to spend 2x as much Skillpoints to max Antiproton as max phaser. So that's why it got cut in the skillpoint change.
Yeah, it something you can get by without. But there's no trade-off for it. You don't really get anything in return for the damage loss because the weapons don't proc enough for you to mix the procs as a viable tactic. So that's why I avoid it.
Also, I think any buffs you deploy in game are on top of your console bonuses. I'm not 100% sure though.
On topic, it wasn't a mission fail or anything, but I had an STF today where the rest of the team seemed to be doing so little damage that I pulled all the aggro every time I opened fire. In a beamboat Kar'Fi (cos I can't manouvre one of those things nearly well enough for a cannon build) that relies on it's fighters for about a third of its damage output. Can't remember the last time I died 4 times in Infected.
OK. I'll bite.
Yesterday in a KASE, myself and a cruiser had finished clearing our side and started on the gateway. At this point, I glanced over to see how the others were getting on on the far side. It turned out that a pair of Escorts had managed to pull both their (left) side's cubes into the middle of that area, beside the gateway. They'd somehow killed both Transformers (it's possible our 5th team member had helped with this before they quit the match) but couldn't make any progress on the gateway itself. Every time they tried to dart in-and-out to fire at the gate or the Cubes, they kept being tractored and killed. The few times they didn't get tractored on their first attack run, they retreated as soon as they started taking any damage.
Oh yes, and every single probe was getting past them.
This sort of thing is just plain painful to watch.
Eventually once my Armitage was done fighting both their cubes simultaneously (by parking directly underneath one to keep out of the way of its Torpedo Arcs, and just plain weathering the damage from the second one), I flew it precisely 8.5KM away from the gateway, parked there, and proceeded to both demolish the gate and take care of every single probe that spawned.
It's such a shame some Escort pilots don't realise the capabilities of their ship. Ignoring how survivable you can make yourself and treating everything like a hit-and-run is just plain silly. But of course, everyone in here already knows that... right? :P
My character Tsin'xing
I'm curious how you'd hold aggro for tanking things on such a build.
If any of my cruiser tank builds (and I do have a few) ran with less than maximum Weapons Power and heavy investment into the "Starship Threat Control" skill, they wouldn't be able to hold aggro over a competent Escort. Damage output plays a large role in generating sufficient levels of hate on a foe for "tanking".
As an aside, I've never been fond of 8 arrays either (preferring a 2x Torp and 6x Array setup for additional spike damage) but if you're hitting 100 weapons power or higher, you won't need to worry about losing any DPS via power drain by taking 8 beams over 7 beams.
I had a good one today. It was a cure normal space. I flew left like normal and noticed that everyone else went right. Two headed to the kang and one guy just yelled Noobs and left. This leaves 4.
I stood my ground and took on the right nodes, then the cube. I was watching an escort at the kang anialating anything that got too close. Two people, both with rainbow beams, were working on the left cube. I killed my cube and went on to the second.
Now keep in mind, I'm running an odessy with disrupters and a single torpedo launcher. I have 1 XII and the rest at a mix of X and XI.
I'm working on the second cube, the two rainbow warriors are working on the third and the escort is still doing a great job at the kang.
I kill the second cube with no help from anyone and head off to the third. The two rainbow warriors still have two nodes to go!
I finish everything off for them and we still have one minute to spare.
So much for rainbow warriors having any kind of dps.
No time for editing, sorry, I'm at work.
first time a KASE fail for me:/
jump in with 5 players 1 player loged out for unknown reason or DC so we are 4 in the mission delete cube works nice not fast but works afther that drama start i jump to first nanite generator to knok them out most times 2 random players take defense vortex position automatikly, not this time after i cleared fast first gen i noticed 4 probes pas vortex so i jump there to check out what not works then i see NOBODY protect vortex afther player 4 noticed the same he log out with no coment.
i take defense position but my big fail i am running at moment on a carrier says jump from side 1 to 2 in serious time to protect both sides no way turnrate is much to lame for that gamestyle so i ask in teamchat a secound player for vortex prot , no coment.....
afther ~6 min a random player 4 jump into the mission and his first words are **** i warp into a ****ed up mission i say yes sorry , he make no coment flight 50km away and simply go afk player 1+2 what stil in mission with me reach afther ~7 min to aktivate 2 cubes but they dont kill them they fly away after they was 2 times killed and attak random nonsense the free flying cubes come to me.:D
so i have to handle 2 sides probes solo+2 cubes now so i also decide to stop try to win the total desaster on any way.....
sad sad sad first time i see a KASE failing, only 2 vortex protectors neeedet thats all and that was not possible with 3 players.......
eptw1+eptw3 spam. keeps my weapon power at 80+ running 8 beam arrays all using faw.
which ship aer you using? mine's a tank, but a tank always has SOME kind of gun
This sig dedicated to the many random objects the Mythbusters crew has blow to smitherines
I can usually hold their attention by shooting Hargs at them. AIs get POed by that.
This ship is an Odyssey prototype.
My character Tsin'xing
tank is what?
the only ship what can take endless dmg is the tholian carrier any other ship is TRIBBLE in compare to it.
and exactly you cry in 1 shot threat that you are always dead from invis thinks what kill you anywhere MR tank.
I can tank well enough with my Ody, thank you very much. And I would never use one of the butt-ugly tholian ships, they don't fit in the ST universe at all.
The tank was me and I don't get one shot with my tank character.
A "tank" is a ship (or character) that can take massive amounts of damage from a target while the rest of the team takes it down. They're the one that should be holding aggro. Pretty basic MMO terminology.
Carriers aren't the only ships that can tank either. With the right buffs, heals, consoles, etc. almost any ship can do it. Even the easy-to-shatter escorts.
Now, more horror stories and less "my ship is better than yours" chatting. :P
Speaking of which... I ran Infected Space this morning. I don't remember if it was elite or normal though... probably normal. Figured it'd be a good game because I saw a couple of veteran passives on the other players.
LOLNOPE. The cube and first spheres went down okay, but then three or four people all started shooting at the same generator. They were taking a while, so I dropped mine to 10% and went for a second. One of them immediately popped the generator I'd just left. >.<
Took forever to get the transformers down on each side, then one of them goes and aggros the tac cube instead of targeting the gate. I never shot at the thing, but it promptly switched to shooting at me anyway. Maybe it didn't like me shooting at the gate. :rolleyes:
There I was....
I come in, type 'Hi" as usual.
No responce.
Fleet mission players are usually pretty good about responding and saying Hi back.
The mission starts, I hit escape to kill the intro and what do I see???
Nobody Shooting!!!! :eek:
After about a minute I say, 'Anybody going to help?'
Someone says, 'We're just here for the stuff.'
I'm thinking, what stuff? The stuff we get out of these is junk and these are mostly for Fleet Credits!
I just stop shooting.
Some guy starts calling us all noobes and he comes in with Rainbow/Tecnicolor beams. Then someone else starts shooting with Skittles. I'm just thinking OH GOODY!
They aren't doing any damage.
I type, 'Please take your weapons off stun!'
Nobody does.
Someone says FU.
By now everyone is shooting. Everyone but me is firing Rainbow/Technicolor beams or Skittles cannons.
We made it through the second wave and lost the mission.
Yes, Skittles and Rainbow/Technicolor beams will do the same damage OVER TIME as any well built escort with cannons. But we don't have hours to complete these missions.
the ship takes dmg you say it, and what ship have highest ingame stats?
exaxtly that what i sayed.;)
no other ship can take this amount of dmg what the one what i have sayed, and that makes it to the only real tank ingame.
any ship can buff or whatever but it not helps on any way a low hull ship will always have low hull or shild.
But not every ship in an STF can be a tank or you never will be able to do the optionals.
that makes no sense for me can you explain what you mean?
you will say 5x tholians can not reach optional in a stf? or i misunderstand you?
And a carrier is never a good dd.
dd?
i think this end in a endless discussion....
lets do the test i say i outdps you on any way with a RAINBOW carrier.
you can use what you want!!!!
my offer for the test you + me + 3 others go into KASE 3 go protect vortex you clear one side solo i clear other side solo, who is faster wins. affraid? if not tell it we make a time when we meat us.;)
"Taking damage" does NOT make you a tank.
"Taking damage" and "Holding aggro" makes you a tank.
A Tholian Carrier can be built to survive more damage than most other ships in the game... but if you build it that way, then the damage it puts out will be too low to reliably hold the attention of enemies. So that setup becomes pretty much pointless.
There is no reason to become more survivable than you need to be at the expense of damage output - and there are other ships that are much better at finding the optimum balance between Damage output and Survivability than the Tholian Carrier.
And to relate it slightly to the thread, I saw someone in a Freebee Odyssey try to "Tank" Donatra earlier this evening. They stayed alive, and made a pretty lightshow, but they never once had aggro the entire fight.
challange me say me a time tomorrow and we make the run who clears faster a side in KASE solo.;)
stats = not that important.
console slots = quite important.
bo layout = the most important.
the tholian ship has a science oriented layout- it has the most sci slots of any ship in the game (bops discluded). assuming when we say endless damage, we do not count any of the cheap one shot weapons, any ship can do that. a tank has a secondary roll thats either A)cc, b)healing or, in the case of the exel and sovi, C) decent damge. the tholian carrier is a class 'A' ship, in that its bo layout makes it optimal for cc and tanking. my 'nx' oddy has a layout which i use for the 'dragon tank' setup (search it- theres a thread about it somewhere) and i can keep all my 8 beams firing at 80+ wep power, so my ship is class 'C', tanking and decent damage. i have nothing against the tholian carrier, but it is not the best ship in the game. there is no best ship in the game. a ship's awesomeness is directly porportional to the skill of the dude in the pilot seat.
/end rant
thanks for reading!
This sig dedicated to the many random objects the Mythbusters crew has blow to smitherines
who will challange me say it we make a movie about this run finally and post it here in this threat to show anyone the result+ i sayed the tholian cant die in a STF for this we can also make a test in STFs.
who is interested say it.
7 min STF runs become boring i need new challenge.:D
i start a new threat for this in PVE section, here is it wrong placed, pls check new threat REAl power of the ships in STO.
Way to entirely miss my point.
Let me make it a bit clearer for you:
Dealing Damage != Tanking
Taking Damage != Tanking
Holding Aggro != Tanking
Taking Damage AND Holding Aggro == Tanking.
You are NOT going to be able to use your Tholian Carrier's Universal Commander slot for Heals/Buffs and still hold aggro over a decently equipped + pilotted Escort, especially on a Skittle build. Your Damage output is going to be split between you and your fighters, and you won't have the Tactical BOFF slots to match the Escort's DPS. It's just plain not happening. If you switch the Universal Commander slot to a Tac BOFF, then your DPS will rise, but you'll be less survivable. You can't have it both ways.
If you chose to slot the Tac BOFF then I'm sure you'll perform better in PVE. I'm not debating that, because PVE does not require lots of survivability. But even if the Tholian Carrier was capable of putting out the highest-damage in the game, it should be self-evident that bragging about your ship's capacity for large amounts of damage is futile whilst you are simultaneously limiting its damage potential by running multiple energytypes.
That said, have fun in your new thread.
I'm sure you'll find plenty of people to take you up on your challenge there