Right now, I am waiting for the inevitable "Don't blame Cryptic, they are just following PWE orders" post.... Well I am finding it harder and harder to seperate the two "factions".
thats easy the ones with all the shiny and getting content are feds erm ..... pwe?
There are some posters on this topic who are dangerously close to being warned for trolling and recommended for an infraction.
If anyone wants to believe, or disbelieve, that the Devs are taking this seriously that's up to them. Feel free to criticize and express your anger and/or disappointment -- that's legitmate feedback.
But don't post over and over about what a Dev said trying to stir up trouble. That is NOT useful feedback. It's trolling.
Borticus has posted a respectful response and I think we should respect that he really can't open this up for discussion on the forums at this time. Very soon, hopefully.
I learned long ago that accusing others of trolling is itself one of the characteristic behaviors of trolling. Productive discussions are contingent on good faith, and questioning the good faith of other posters - especially collectively, since individual posters can't very well be responsible for other individual posters - is inherently unlikely to get a discussion back on track. More often it derails a discussion into a blame game.
Anger and disappointment aren't actually useful as good feedback. Saying "I don't like something" is a lot less useful than "I don't like it, here's why, and here's what I think of the alternatives".
Conversely, dismissing others' "feedback" as a mere emotional state is to preclude the possibility that there is any intellectual depth to it. All the more so when such a superficial interpretation is applied not to any individual post but to many different posts by many different posters about different aspects of the same issue.
To understand an issue and the alternatives to a given approach necessarily requires understanding of the motivations of any given party involved. And the only way those motivations can be divined is by discussion of the available facts. Those facts, such as they are, are dev posts.
To show respect is to recognize the rights and prerogatives of the other party. Amongst the prerogatives that people usually associate with "respect" is the right to one's opinion, and to be dealt with in a responsive and equivocal way. No one likes a curt dismissal or being told that they are incapable of understanding something, or that their time is somehow less important than someone else's.
A major source of dysfunction in business today, and, I think, the MMO industry in particular, is taking stereotyped and unimaginative approaches to problems, including customer service. Few companies really stop to question whether they have more to be worried about from being sued, or any loss of face from doing a mea culpa, or from customers being offended or otherwise disaffected by a perceived lack of honesty or responsiveness.
In this scenario, the question is: what would really have been lost had the intent of this change been explicitly expressed by Bort and the other devs, or if he simply said "sorry we did this in such a way"? Even if Bort thinks he's 100% right - even if he IS 100% right in his thinking behind this change - what would really have been lost in making an apology for perceived bad form?
Notice I said perceived: perception is everything, especially in MMOs. And likewise in real life, one often meets clueless people who affect the forms of etiquette without the essence, doing offense to everyone they meet, and really are only convincing themselves as to their civility. Typically, those kinds people are in a position where they really don't have to care what others think, because if they did, such behavior wouldn't endure very long.
What matters in any given situation is not whether what was said was, factually, respectful, or whether it adhered to the literal standards of respect, but whether it was perceived as respectful. Like I said, people who affect the forms of etiquette but not the essence are usually those who don't really have to care what others think: they rely on intimidation to get their way. So talking about respect then lapsing into veiled threats seems a bit inconsistent with a respect-based approach.
This isn't a matter of national security. If the game is being run in an equivocal way then it is hard to see a rational reason the issue can't be discussed reasonably. The devs can state their design goals, and work with the community on a way to achieve them - and if they are unwilling to do so then it is only logical to ask why.
Now I want to point out that everything I said here was entirely respectful (^_^) and directly on-point and on-topic. There's no speculation or strawmanning, just reference to what was said and a bit of elementary reasoning.
So I would say the way in which what I said is approached would be a good indicator of good faith on the part of all parties involved in this discussion.
Okay thanks for telling us you're working on it. I've already given some of my ideas so I won't repeat them. I just want to add that it would be good to get the fix in the next patch to preserve the peace on this forum.
"Peace is not the absence of war, it is the presence of justice."
You can't very well have peace if people think they're being treated unfairly. And if you think such a perception is itself likely to be unfair then you preclude the possibility of any sort of peace at all.
Sorry for the ongoing silence on this issue, folks.
We recognize the inconvenience that a lack of clear indicator has caused on the Exchange, and are still discussing additional (or alternative) solutions to the underlying mechanics we were seeking to address.
I'm afraid we can't comment further than that on the issue at the moment. Just wanted to let you all know that it is definitely on our radar, and under discussion for additional resolution.
Hope you guys will do it fast and correct, not come with a fix that hurt us more and fix nothing. Starbase building have been stoped till you come with a good fix.
Im keeping all my ec and dilitium (already got myself 2000 zen-points from dil. exchange)
(if the fix will takes months, i don't neeed to grind fleet marks but will grind dilitium with 14 characters...104.000 dil a day = 630 zen-points)
PS: again a great patch, can't you not better patch on Monday, you will have the whole week to fix your errors.
This isn't a matter of national security. If the game is being run in an equivocal way then it is hard to see a rational reason the issue can't be discussed reasonably. The devs can state their design goals, and work with the community on a way to achieve them - and if they are unwilling to do so then it is only logical to ask why.
Actually, they all sign Non-Disclosure Agreements, so they're pretty limited in what they can say, and Cryptic's one of the best companies about letting them speak. Not the best, but one of.
Some pretty innocuous statements made in the wrong place in the past have resulted in people getting in a lot of trouble. Maybe Borticus is free to talk about why things are the way they are, and maybe he isn't. Let's give him some time.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
I know the developers need to be- try to be- vigilant about not introducing anything that can be exploited, but there has to be a reasonable solution in this case. And the most reasonable solution I can see is to simply allow doffs purchased from the starbase to be used in fleet projects.
Sorry for the ongoing silence on this issue, folks.
We recognize the inconvenience that a lack of clear indicator has caused on the Exchange, and are still discussing additional (or alternative) solutions to the underlying mechanics we were seeking to address.
I'm afraid we can't comment further than that on the issue at the moment. Just wanted to let you all know that it is definitely on our radar, and under discussion for additional resolution.
Let me tell you 2 things that I know for sure:
1. By tomorrow I expect at least 1/2 the players of this game to be affected in a negative way by this "decision" - mostly from the exchange
2. This game is different than a game that upsets a lot of players - like the ending in ME3 which caused the company to redo the ending- this game is ongoing and therefore needs even more attention from on top.
So being myself from a corporate world - the people at the top - say if a TRIBBLE-up that effected half of McDonalds customers in a negative way - would NOT just be talking about a resolution but also about what they could give their customers as a token gift/sale etc to make them happy again. And they would be doing it quickly.
I know the developers need to be- try to be- vigilant about not introducing anything that can be exploited, but there has to be a reasonable solution in this case. And the most reasonable solution I can see is to simply allow doffs purchased from the starbase to be used in fleet projects.
In the attempt to avoid a suspected exploit in the game , they have created a much more serious exploit, two in fact.
1) People who are not in the know are being openly exploited by other players on the exchange. it IS HAPPENING.
2) People not in the know are being (I can only assume unintentionaly) exploited by PWE via FLEET DOFFS that they now only have a very limited use for.
OHH and here is a third that I can not and will not spend my money to confirm...
3?) Some have noted that Doffs purchased via the Z-Store are not useable either. Can anyone conirm this?
"Peace is not the absence of war, it is the presence of justice."
You can't very well have peace if people think they're being treated unfairly. And if you think such a perception is itself likely to be unfair then you preclude the possibility of any sort of peace at all.
Well we were given something we should have never seen in game, a free infinite doff generator. It's like christmas but every day. It can't last long in a F2P game. You can discuss on the amount of advantages you can get for free in game but you can't ask for everything to be free. They made a huge mistake, the white doffs were 200 times too cheap or so, if we take a look at our leaderboards. I know people can think it's unfair if the free candies for everyone are removed but I'm sure they did this to preserve their revenue on doff packs.
The fact is that this feature was a huge mistake (for the revenue and for the challenges we have in game), and the temporaty patch is a disaster, but it was an emergency solution to this first huge mistake. I really hope that next time, they consider the facts when they want to please us, so that all this frustration can be avoided. I prefer seeing a useless feature they make cheaper after some time than the contrary, otherwise, it leads to many abuses - and such abuses still exists in game with the grinder/degrinder. The infinite doff generator still exists for those who know how to trick the system, it just takes more time.
And the fact is that there is no fun in a game where you can have everything right away without any effort or challenge.
Edit: The best and most friendly solution would be: make all the current doffs usable in the SB. Raise the price of every fleet doff x200 or 300 (purples x1000 or more). With this system, people can get some more doffs each week (not much but some), and they can farm fleetmarks like mad if they want a bit more. Those who bought some doffs on the exchange can use them, and the candy still exists but it's much harder to get.
Sorry for the ongoing silence on this issue, folks.
We recognize the inconvenience that a lack of clear indicator has caused on the Exchange, and are still discussing additional (or alternative) solutions to the underlying mechanics we were seeking to address.
I'm afraid we can't comment further than that on the issue at the moment. Just wanted to let you all know that it is definitely on our radar, and under discussion for additional resolution.
easy undo the changes to starbase doffs in an emergancy maintaince = everyone happy.
There are massive amounts of Vultures stocking up on fleet doff packs just waiting for the weekend warriors to arrive from Europe in just a few hours and the U.S not long after - completely unaware of the danger.
Fun times on the exchange tomorrow - I expect the full fury of this ****storm to hit over the next 24hrs
After that you can kiss those long range profit projections on starbases for PWE goodbye!!
Actually, they all sign Non-Disclosure Agreements, so they're pretty limited in what they can say, and Cryptic's one of the best companies about letting them speak. Not the best, but one of.
Some pretty innocuous statements made in the wrong place in the past have resulted in people getting in a lot of trouble. Maybe Borticus is free to talk about why things are the way they are, and maybe he isn't. Let's give him some time.
NDA purview is by company discretion so that is a distinction without a difference.
To argue otherwise would be to imply that anyone blames Borticus (or Heretic!) personally for this situation, and that's just not true. No one here has been sighting Bort through their crosshairs, it seems like pretty much everyone blames the management for this situation, and a bad relations policy is part of that.
Conversely, being a human shield is part of why Bort & Co. get paid the big bucks
There are massive amounts of Vultures stocking up on fleet doff packs just waiting for the weekend warriors to arrive from Europe in just a few hours and the U.S not long after - completely unaware of the danger.
I don't see why this is a problem. Massed Vultures are defenseless from the air.
It has already been established why this characterization is contrary to truth.
Let me explain you simple maths with simple words then.
Grind fleetmarks. Turn them into a huge amount of fleet credits with some special projects. Let's say colonists, since we want a cheap one. Reach 1 or 2M of fleet credits. A lot of people already have this. Buy 4000 white doffs with that. It's not infinite, but that's insane. And it's just one month of grinding. Which means 133 doffs a day. This is too much. The academy can offer 5-6 doffs a day (roughtly). Any dev allowing such an imbalance in his game isn't serious.
This abuse still exists. Turn 5 whites into 3 with the grinder and ungrinder. It still makes 80 doffs a day. This is ridiculous. Now, if you can't understand why it may kill a major feature of the game then I fear I can't do much for you. You may be frustrated because your starbase isn't advancing fast enough but it doesn't mean your frustration has to turn STO in a zero challenge game.
It has already been established why this characterization is contrary to truth.
Why try to bring defeated reasoning back to the fore?
Because he thinks no one will call him on it, again. I explained why the fleet DOFF vendor is no different in constraints than the recruitment mission, but since he fears losing the abiltiy to overcharge the uninformed for DOFFs on the exchange, he desperately continues to cling to his flawed reasoning.
Don't waste time explaining it to him again. Just easier to ignore anything he says.
Because he thinks no one will call him on it, again. I explained why the fleet DOFF vendor is no different in constraints than the recruitment mission, but since he fears losing the abiltiy to overcharge the uninformed for DOFFs on the exchange, he desperately continues to cling to his flawed reasoning.
Don't waste time explaining it to him again. Just easier to ignore anything he says.
You can't ignore maths. Or at least, you shouldn't.
Math ends there. Nothing that requires a grind is "infinite" because time is an inherently limited resource.
Don't play on words, this is really becoming ridiculous.
Anyway I hope this issue will be fixed asap, but without making the game too easy. It's already easy to be bored with the lack of content, so please, devs, don't allow anyone to milk doffs from the starbase like mad. Some challenge is required.
If you're not convinced, I'll use the real figures of my fed fleet leaderboard to prove you that the current system already allows us to go through T5 without ANY efforts. It will just be plain and boring travels back and forth between the SB and SFA.
Don't play on words, this is really becoming ridiculous.
Anyway I hope this issue will be fixed asap, but without making the game too easy. It's already easy to be bored with the lack of content, so please, devs, don't allow anyone to milk doffs from the starbase like mad. Some challenge is required.
If you're not convinced, I'll use the real figures of my fed fleet leaderboard to prove you that the current system already allows us to go through T5 without ANY efforts. It will just be plain and boring travels back and forth between the SB and SFA.
I assure you there is effort - I am at 32K xp across the board and have finished all T2 upgrades and it was a lot of work for my solo fleet!!! Now it will take my 1 man fleet a week or 2 more to reach T3!!! That is crazy!!
I know what you're saying, our 260 man fleet is obviously a bit further ahead than you but I was hoping for tier 5 by Monday, now it will be Tuesday!!!
That sucks!!
on a serious note though over the last what 6 weeks? - I have put wayyyyyyyyy to much time into the starbase thing.
Sorry if this has been said by somebody else as I just skimmed through, don't really have the time to read 36pg's lol.
Anyway I don't know what all the fuss is about people thinking fleet doffs from the fleet vendor will appear on the Exchange.
They won't, when buying fleet doffs from the fleet vendors they are locked into your inventory so you cannot sell them, you can however use them to trade them up 5 of them for a possible higher single one doff mission but the higher single one you get will not be locked and will be able to use in fleet projects or sell.
Sorry if this has been said by somebody else as I just skimmed through, don't really have the time to read 36pg's lol.
Anyway I don't know what all the fuss is about people thinking fleet doffs from the fleet vendor will appear on the Exchange.
They won't, when buying fleet doffs from the fleet vendors they are locked into your inventory so you cannot sell them, you can however use them to trade them up 5 of them for a possible higher single one doff mission but the higher single one you get will not be locked and will be able to use in fleet projects or sell.
As above sorry if its been said before...
Sorry but that is simply incorrect. The fleet doff boxes are bound to your character, but once you open the fleet box you get a doff that is NOT bound. You can turn around and sell that doff on the exchange just like you could any other doff, that is the problem. If you go on the exchange right now and start buying doffs for your base projects your going to get some that work and some that don't, there is no way to tell the difference.
If it was the way you outlined where the fleet doffs were bound I would still be annoyed about having to go back to wasting tons of EC on doffs for the starbase, but atleast we could go back to buying them on the exchange, with the current mess you can't even buy doffs for the starbase on the exchange and know they will work.
I just went to starbase, bought a doff box, opened it, and toss that doff on the exchange without a problem. Nothing has been fixed.
I'm not given to quoting myself but I wanted Cryptic to understand what this means.
It means that people are not buying DOFFs of any description. In order to get the millions of EC to buy the hundreds of DOFFs required players are buying fleet ship modules and selling them on the exchange, therefore NO more fleet ship modules are being bought for that purpose. If star base construction has stopped nobody is buying dilithium with Zen either.
Until this mess is cleared up it basically means Cryptic that YOU ARE LOSING A SHED LOAD OF MONEY EVERY MINUTE THIS CONTINUES!
They aren't losing just money, but im making money. Normaly almost all my dilitium goes into projects, now im getting zen-point from the dilitium exchange, if this fix fill take to long i need to look in what the zen-point cap is !!!
I posted this in another thread and seeing that this one is busier, I thought I would add it here as well.
I bought all those doffs off the exchange, (all 41 of them and they were not cheap) so I could donate them to the fleet starbase. As you can see the contribute button is un-highlighted, meaning I can't contribute them.
I am guessing, these are the doffs people bought them with fleet credits and seeing they could not use them placed them on the exchange. Meaning I bought a whole lot of useless, over priced doffs and have nothing to do with them except trade them in with Ferras.
I really do hope this is a bug and is fixed ASAP or I can see the fleet contribution coming crashing to a sudden halt, from all but the most dedicated fleets.
So has anyone from PWE came forward and confirmed this is a bug or it is how they intended it to be.
I posted this in another thread and seeing that this one is busier, I thought I would add it here as well.
I bought all those doffs off the exchange, (all 41 of them and they were not cheap) so I could donate them to the fleet starbase. As you can see the contribute button is un-highlighted, meaning I can't contribute them.
I am guessing, these are the doffs people bought them with fleet credits and seeing they could not use them placed them on the exchange. Meaning I bought a whole lot of useless, over priced doffs and have nothing to do with them except trade them in with Ferras.
I really do hope this is a bug and is fixed ASAP or I can see the fleet contribution coming crashing to a sudden halt, from all but the most dedicated fleets.
So has anyone from PWE came forward and confirmed this is a bug or it is how they intended it to be.
There is a post somewhere back in this thread from someone with PWE, basically they said they are aware of the exchange issue with fleet doffs and are trying to figure out how to deal with it. I guess the simple solution of allowing us to use fleet doffs again, at least until they can fix there TRIBBLE up, hasn't occurred to them. No information as to when they will fix this.
Sorry but that is simply incorrect. The fleet doff boxes are bound to your character, but once you open the fleet box you get a doff that is NOT bound. You can turn around and sell that doff on the exchange just like you could any other doff, that is the problem.
Sorry but you can't, I highly suggest you open your eyes the next time you buy a a doff from a fleet vendor. The box is bound plus once you open it they all have a little locked icon indicating you cannot sell it.
I can easily take a screenshot, take it into paint and draw a big red arrow to the lock icon seeings your so blind!
So you cannot sell those doffs, only way is to use those doffs in your own doff missions to trade them up for a better one that you can then sell or put into fleet projects.
If your buying doffs off the exchange and they are not working well theres a bug somewhere but its NOT with the fleet doffs as above its impossible to move them out of your doff list unless its got to do with one of your doff assignments!.
Wrong wrong wrong. Do you really think as you say that there would be 36 pages about this if that were so easily solved?
Well yes now that you mention it especially the responses I've just got lol, you people just don't open your eyes then go assuming things that just are not true. How hard is it going to be for poor old Cryptic to fix an issue that is made up?
1 you cannot use the fleet doffs to contribute to your base ROFL at the astonishingly poor thinking behind that one
Yes I know that but my post wasn't in response to that it was in response to people been worried about these fleet doffs appearing on the exchange when its simply not true.
Further more you can use those fleet doffs to trade into other doffs that can contribute to the fleet projects.
Did it ever occur to you that some people where taking advantage of the system so it had to be changed rather than some of the things this thread has called it?
As a result NOBODY who knows about this is buying any kind of DOFF on the exchange. Only those poor saps that do not read the forum or whose fleet leaders have not told their fleet are about to lose a fortune on DOFFs that can't be used. The only way to get anything from this utter shambles is to put your fleet doffs through the doff shredder at SFA. At the moment starbase construction has basically stopped.
I suppose I have to go get a screen shot for you too lol, you can't sell those fleet doffs they are locked into your doff inventory lists same as doffs on active duty.
Comments
thats easy the ones with all the shiny and getting content are feds erm ..... pwe?
I learned long ago that accusing others of trolling is itself one of the characteristic behaviors of trolling. Productive discussions are contingent on good faith, and questioning the good faith of other posters - especially collectively, since individual posters can't very well be responsible for other individual posters - is inherently unlikely to get a discussion back on track. More often it derails a discussion into a blame game.
Anger and disappointment aren't actually useful as good feedback. Saying "I don't like something" is a lot less useful than "I don't like it, here's why, and here's what I think of the alternatives".
Conversely, dismissing others' "feedback" as a mere emotional state is to preclude the possibility that there is any intellectual depth to it. All the more so when such a superficial interpretation is applied not to any individual post but to many different posts by many different posters about different aspects of the same issue.
To understand an issue and the alternatives to a given approach necessarily requires understanding of the motivations of any given party involved. And the only way those motivations can be divined is by discussion of the available facts. Those facts, such as they are, are dev posts.
To show respect is to recognize the rights and prerogatives of the other party. Amongst the prerogatives that people usually associate with "respect" is the right to one's opinion, and to be dealt with in a responsive and equivocal way. No one likes a curt dismissal or being told that they are incapable of understanding something, or that their time is somehow less important than someone else's.
A major source of dysfunction in business today, and, I think, the MMO industry in particular, is taking stereotyped and unimaginative approaches to problems, including customer service. Few companies really stop to question whether they have more to be worried about from being sued, or any loss of face from doing a mea culpa, or from customers being offended or otherwise disaffected by a perceived lack of honesty or responsiveness.
In this scenario, the question is: what would really have been lost had the intent of this change been explicitly expressed by Bort and the other devs, or if he simply said "sorry we did this in such a way"? Even if Bort thinks he's 100% right - even if he IS 100% right in his thinking behind this change - what would really have been lost in making an apology for perceived bad form?
Notice I said perceived: perception is everything, especially in MMOs. And likewise in real life, one often meets clueless people who affect the forms of etiquette without the essence, doing offense to everyone they meet, and really are only convincing themselves as to their civility. Typically, those kinds people are in a position where they really don't have to care what others think, because if they did, such behavior wouldn't endure very long.
What matters in any given situation is not whether what was said was, factually, respectful, or whether it adhered to the literal standards of respect, but whether it was perceived as respectful. Like I said, people who affect the forms of etiquette but not the essence are usually those who don't really have to care what others think: they rely on intimidation to get their way. So talking about respect then lapsing into veiled threats seems a bit inconsistent with a respect-based approach.
This isn't a matter of national security. If the game is being run in an equivocal way then it is hard to see a rational reason the issue can't be discussed reasonably. The devs can state their design goals, and work with the community on a way to achieve them - and if they are unwilling to do so then it is only logical to ask why.
Now I want to point out that everything I said here was entirely respectful (^_^) and directly on-point and on-topic. There's no speculation or strawmanning, just reference to what was said and a bit of elementary reasoning.
So I would say the way in which what I said is approached would be a good indicator of good faith on the part of all parties involved in this discussion.
"Peace is not the absence of war, it is the presence of justice."
You can't very well have peace if people think they're being treated unfairly. And if you think such a perception is itself likely to be unfair then you preclude the possibility of any sort of peace at all.
Hope you guys will do it fast and correct, not come with a fix that hurt us more and fix nothing. Starbase building have been stoped till you come with a good fix.
Im keeping all my ec and dilitium (already got myself 2000 zen-points from dil. exchange)
(if the fix will takes months, i don't neeed to grind fleet marks but will grind dilitium with 14 characters...104.000 dil a day = 630 zen-points)
PS: again a great patch, can't you not better patch on Monday, you will have the whole week to fix your errors.
Actually, they all sign Non-Disclosure Agreements, so they're pretty limited in what they can say, and Cryptic's one of the best companies about letting them speak. Not the best, but one of.
Some pretty innocuous statements made in the wrong place in the past have resulted in people getting in a lot of trouble. Maybe Borticus is free to talk about why things are the way they are, and maybe he isn't. Let's give him some time.
Let me tell you 2 things that I know for sure:
1. By tomorrow I expect at least 1/2 the players of this game to be affected in a negative way by this "decision" - mostly from the exchange
2. This game is different than a game that upsets a lot of players - like the ending in ME3 which caused the company to redo the ending- this game is ongoing and therefore needs even more attention from on top.
So being myself from a corporate world - the people at the top - say if a TRIBBLE-up that effected half of McDonalds customers in a negative way - would NOT just be talking about a resolution but also about what they could give their customers as a token gift/sale etc to make them happy again. And they would be doing it quickly.
In the attempt to avoid a suspected exploit in the game , they have created a much more serious exploit, two in fact.
1) People who are not in the know are being openly exploited by other players on the exchange. it IS HAPPENING.
2) People not in the know are being (I can only assume unintentionaly) exploited by PWE via FLEET DOFFS that they now only have a very limited use for.
OHH and here is a third that I can not and will not spend my money to confirm...
3?) Some have noted that Doffs purchased via the Z-Store are not useable either. Can anyone conirm this?
Well we were given something we should have never seen in game, a free infinite doff generator. It's like christmas but every day. It can't last long in a F2P game. You can discuss on the amount of advantages you can get for free in game but you can't ask for everything to be free. They made a huge mistake, the white doffs were 200 times too cheap or so, if we take a look at our leaderboards. I know people can think it's unfair if the free candies for everyone are removed but I'm sure they did this to preserve their revenue on doff packs.
The fact is that this feature was a huge mistake (for the revenue and for the challenges we have in game), and the temporaty patch is a disaster, but it was an emergency solution to this first huge mistake. I really hope that next time, they consider the facts when they want to please us, so that all this frustration can be avoided. I prefer seeing a useless feature they make cheaper after some time than the contrary, otherwise, it leads to many abuses - and such abuses still exists in game with the grinder/degrinder. The infinite doff generator still exists for those who know how to trick the system, it just takes more time.
And the fact is that there is no fun in a game where you can have everything right away without any effort or challenge.
Edit: The best and most friendly solution would be: make all the current doffs usable in the SB. Raise the price of every fleet doff x200 or 300 (purples x1000 or more). With this system, people can get some more doffs each week (not much but some), and they can farm fleetmarks like mad if they want a bit more. Those who bought some doffs on the exchange can use them, and the candy still exists but it's much harder to get.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
easy undo the changes to starbase doffs in an emergancy maintaince = everyone happy.
Fun times on the exchange tomorrow - I expect the full fury of this ****storm to hit over the next 24hrs
After that you can kiss those long range profit projections on starbases for PWE goodbye!!
It has already been established why this characterization is contrary to truth.
Why try to bring defeated reasoning back to the fore?
NDA purview is by company discretion so that is a distinction without a difference.
To argue otherwise would be to imply that anyone blames Borticus (or Heretic!) personally for this situation, and that's just not true. No one here has been sighting Bort through their crosshairs, it seems like pretty much everyone blames the management for this situation, and a bad relations policy is part of that.
Conversely, being a human shield is part of why Bort & Co. get paid the big bucks
I don't see why this is a problem. Massed Vultures are defenseless from the air.
Let me explain you simple maths with simple words then.
Grind fleetmarks. Turn them into a huge amount of fleet credits with some special projects. Let's say colonists, since we want a cheap one. Reach 1 or 2M of fleet credits. A lot of people already have this. Buy 4000 white doffs with that. It's not infinite, but that's insane. And it's just one month of grinding. Which means 133 doffs a day. This is too much. The academy can offer 5-6 doffs a day (roughtly). Any dev allowing such an imbalance in his game isn't serious.
This abuse still exists. Turn 5 whites into 3 with the grinder and ungrinder. It still makes 80 doffs a day. This is ridiculous. Now, if you can't understand why it may kill a major feature of the game then I fear I can't do much for you. You may be frustrated because your starbase isn't advancing fast enough but it doesn't mean your frustration has to turn STO in a zero challenge game.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Because he thinks no one will call him on it, again. I explained why the fleet DOFF vendor is no different in constraints than the recruitment mission, but since he fears losing the abiltiy to overcharge the uninformed for DOFFs on the exchange, he desperately continues to cling to his flawed reasoning.
Don't waste time explaining it to him again. Just easier to ignore anything he says.
You can't ignore maths.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Math ends there. Nothing that requires a grind is "infinite" because time is an inherently limited resource.
Don't play on words, this is really becoming ridiculous.
Anyway I hope this issue will be fixed asap, but without making the game too easy. It's already easy to be bored with the lack of content, so please, devs, don't allow anyone to milk doffs from the starbase like mad. Some challenge is required.
If you're not convinced, I'll use the real figures of my fed fleet leaderboard to prove you that the current system already allows us to go through T5 without ANY efforts. It will just be plain and boring travels back and forth between the SB and SFA.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f159/RaulMonkey/Animated/beating-a-dead-horse.gif
I assure you there is effort - I am at 32K xp across the board and have finished all T2 upgrades and it was a lot of work for my solo fleet!!! Now it will take my 1 man fleet a week or 2 more to reach T3!!! That is crazy!!
end sarcasm
That sucks!!
on a serious note though over the last what 6 weeks? - I have put wayyyyyyyyy to much time into the starbase thing.
Anyway I don't know what all the fuss is about people thinking fleet doffs from the fleet vendor will appear on the Exchange.
They won't, when buying fleet doffs from the fleet vendors they are locked into your inventory so you cannot sell them, you can however use them to trade them up 5 of them for a possible higher single one doff mission but the higher single one you get will not be locked and will be able to use in fleet projects or sell.
As above sorry if its been said before...
Sorry but that is simply incorrect. The fleet doff boxes are bound to your character, but once you open the fleet box you get a doff that is NOT bound. You can turn around and sell that doff on the exchange just like you could any other doff, that is the problem. If you go on the exchange right now and start buying doffs for your base projects your going to get some that work and some that don't, there is no way to tell the difference.
If it was the way you outlined where the fleet doffs were bound I would still be annoyed about having to go back to wasting tons of EC on doffs for the starbase, but atleast we could go back to buying them on the exchange, with the current mess you can't even buy doffs for the starbase on the exchange and know they will work.
I just went to starbase, bought a doff box, opened it, and toss that doff on the exchange without a problem. Nothing has been fixed.
They aren't losing just money, but im making money. Normaly almost all my dilitium goes into projects, now im getting zen-point from the dilitium exchange, if this fix fill take to long i need to look in what the zen-point cap is !!!
I bought all those doffs off the exchange, (all 41 of them and they were not cheap) so I could donate them to the fleet starbase. As you can see the contribute button is un-highlighted, meaning I can't contribute them.
I am guessing, these are the doffs people bought them with fleet credits and seeing they could not use them placed them on the exchange. Meaning I bought a whole lot of useless, over priced doffs and have nothing to do with them except trade them in with Ferras.
I really do hope this is a bug and is fixed ASAP or I can see the fleet contribution coming crashing to a sudden halt, from all but the most dedicated fleets.
So has anyone from PWE came forward and confirmed this is a bug or it is how they intended it to be.
There is a post somewhere back in this thread from someone with PWE, basically they said they are aware of the exchange issue with fleet doffs and are trying to figure out how to deal with it. I guess the simple solution of allowing us to use fleet doffs again, at least until they can fix there TRIBBLE up, hasn't occurred to them. No information as to when they will fix this.
Sorry but you can't, I highly suggest you open your eyes the next time you buy a a doff from a fleet vendor. The box is bound plus once you open it they all have a little locked icon indicating you cannot sell it.
I can easily take a screenshot, take it into paint and draw a big red arrow to the lock icon seeings your so blind!
So you cannot sell those doffs, only way is to use those doffs in your own doff missions to trade them up for a better one that you can then sell or put into fleet projects.
If your buying doffs off the exchange and they are not working well theres a bug somewhere but its NOT with the fleet doffs as above its impossible to move them out of your doff list unless its got to do with one of your doff assignments!.
Well yes now that you mention it especially the responses I've just got lol, you people just don't open your eyes then go assuming things that just are not true. How hard is it going to be for poor old Cryptic to fix an issue that is made up?
Yes there are but I only posted a response to one of them and somehow I'm getting flamed for the other one?
Yes I know that but my post wasn't in response to that it was in response to people been worried about these fleet doffs appearing on the exchange when its simply not true.
Further more you can use those fleet doffs to trade into other doffs that can contribute to the fleet projects.
Did it ever occur to you that some people where taking advantage of the system so it had to be changed rather than some of the things this thread has called it?
I suppose I have to go get a screen shot for you too lol, you can't sell those fleet doffs they are locked into your doff inventory lists same as doffs on active duty.
I just now opened Rereh Evema common duty officer(ground warfare officer) I purchased at my fleet starbase.
He is NOW posted on the exchange for $1,000,000
Check it out...read it and weep. I can post ANY duty officer I have on the exchange.
PS...the BOXES you buy are BOUND to character
Once you OPEN the BOX.....the Doff is bind on equip....
As long as you do NOT put him in your inventory you can sell them.