its free in terms of you dont have to pay money for it but actually, its not free. everything you work for is not free. free is, when i get something without giving/doing something.
And even then, Sollvax is still wrong. Unless, of course, Sollvax's time isn't worth anything.
And even then, Sollvax is still wrong. Unless, of course, Sollvax's time isn't worth anything.
Well, maybe his isn't....
Sollvax also believes that in the end the American justice system always gets it`s man - even if it takes decades - and always the right man! - that is parapharsing him from another thread which got removed I believe.
And even then, Sollvax is still wrong. Unless, of course, Sollvax's time isn't worth anything.
Well, maybe his isn't....
Now, now, now... I've been retired for 10 years and can tell you that my time is worth nothing. Maybe Sollvax is as lucky.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I also have a huge problem with the Fleet DOFF vendor. If I buy a random common, I'd like it to be a truely random common. I have bought over 800 DOFFs and -zero- have been sensor officers. somewhere in the area of 10 have been security officers.
Doesn't seem terribly random when two of the DOFF types needed for projects never actually seem to drop. You'd think that out of 800, maybe one or two would be sensor officers.
And don't talk about sample size. The total pool of available doffs isn't that large, comparitively speaking. If the Fleet DOFF vendor was truely dropping random DOFFs, the vast majority in every single pull of 50 Doffs unwrapped, 60% wouldn't always be Ground/Space warfare specialists.
This underscores why 1,000 is a lousy sample size; I spent half an hour in game yesterday doing the "greens for whites/whites for greens" shuffle, and got two Sensor Officers, which I've since sold on the Exchange.
You just can't tell much from that sample size with this many possible variables. 1,000 would be fine if your division was "Ground vs. Space", but there are 46 different kinds of doffs; you need a HUGE sample to get anything meaningful from it.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
This underscores why 1,000 is a lousy sample size; I spent half an hour in game yesterday doing the "greens for whites/whites for greens" shuffle, and got two Sensor Officers, which I've since sold on the Exchange.
You just can't tell much from that sample size with this many possible variables. 1,000 would be fine if your division was "Ground vs. Space", but there are 46 different kinds of doffs; you need a HUGE sample to get anything meaningful from it.
2 things - the Starbase vendor and the Star fleet academy seem to work diferently
also I kno exactly what you are saying is supposedly lousy:
For every security doff I recieved - I got 12 Ground warfare doffs and 10 Space warfare doffs
in 1200 doffs that I have purchased now at the Starbase I got 1 sensor officer!
Just how big a sample size would you need when total is only 46 possible?
This logic does not compute. I will bet that if there are no chages I could do 10,000
I would get Lots of Tactical and almost no Security
I would get lots of Operations and Few Engenieering
I would get Lots of Med and few Science
And that is the whole point of the experient - not the individual doff received - but how many in each of the 2 sub categories that are required for the 1000xp starbase project
It is CLEAR they provide lots of one component doff and few of the other - deliberately
Really I am not interested in how many grond warfare it is or space warfare - or armory or security - all I know is that I need 60 tactical and 60 security(type) doffs - not to be confused with security sepecialization
I know that in 250 packs I will be able to fill up the 60 Tactical doffs - but only have 10/60 of security category filled -THAT IS THE PROBLEM
Just how big a sample size would you need when total is only 46 possible?
I'm not sure; I'm not good enough at the math to do it on paper, and on all the online calculators I've tried to use, it exceeds the maximum size for an integer, which is probably 2.1 billion-ish.
I may be trying to get the margin of error too close though; I was using +/- 5%.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
I'm not sure; I'm not good enough at the math to do it on paper, and on all the online calculators I've tried to use, it exceeds the maximum size for an integer, which is probably 2.1 billion-ish.
I may be trying to get the margin of error too close though; I was using +/- 5%.
Well stats was never my strong suit - that number seems a little high - what formula were you using?
This underscores why 1,000 is a lousy sample size; I spent half an hour in game yesterday doing the "greens for whites/whites for greens" shuffle, and got two Sensor Officers, which I've since sold on the Exchange.
You just can't tell much from that sample size with this many possible variables. 1,000 would be fine if your division was "Ground vs. Space", but there are 46 different kinds of doffs; you need a HUGE sample to get anything meaningful from it.
Apples and oranges. I am not talking about trading in one type for three of another. I too seem to have better luck with the "random" outcome of downgrading rather than the "random" outcome of purchasing at the starbase.
I am talking about buying 800 boxes that should have only 46 possible outcomes...and in 800 attempts only "randomly" getting 3 security and 0 sensor officers. If there was 300 different DOFFs, I would agree 800-1000 wouldn't be a big enough sample. When there is only 46 DOFFs and you are getting the same two types (Ground warfare/Space warfare) 60% of the time, there is something decidely un-random going on.
And I'm not saying its an evil conspiracy. I've been here since day 1 - I know how Cryptic rolls. If I'm right and the sensor/security aren't dropping at their proper rate, its more likely someone screwed up the math then someone is intentionally trying to TRIBBLE us.
Apples and oranges. I am not talking about trading in one type for three of another. I too seem to have better luck with the "random" outcome of downgrading rather than the "random" outcome of purchasing at the starbase.
I am talking about buying 800 boxes that should have only 46 possible outcomes...and in 800 attempts only "randomly" getting 3 security and 0 sensor officers. If there was 300 different DOFFs, I would agree 800-1000 wouldn't be a big enough sample. When there is only 46 DOFFs and you are getting the same two types (Ground warfare/Space warfare) 60% of the time, there is something decidely un-random going on.
And I'm not saying its an evil conspiracy. I've been here since day 1 - I know how Cryptic rolls. If I'm right and the sensor/security aren't dropping at their proper rate, its more likely someone screwed up the math then someone is intentionally trying to TRIBBLE us.
As I have said before _- I love the game - there are just things that they do that could be different
I posted this vid before - I want you to pretend that the Doctor is us the player and Cryptic is Garak
Well stats was never my strong suit - that number seems a little high - what formula were you using?
The wrong one, because further reflection tells me there's numbers we have to have to do this that we simply don't have.
DOFFs aren't generated randomly to order; each one is a hand-crafted creation, if I'm remembering past dev posts correctly. So in order to determine what the actual odds should be, we'd have to know how many doffs of each type there are in the database. We don't have those numbers.
Without that we can't even begin to guess what sample size would be sufficient for any desired Confidence Level. So I'm just going to take the devs' word for it that 1,000 ain't it until I have more information. Others are of course free to choose not to do so.
Now, if a dev were to come in and say "there are X doffs, of which Y are Security Officers, Z are Assault Squad, etc.", then we could compute what size sample you'd need to get a CL of 95% that the distribution from a given source is acceptably random.
We are, as usual, at the mercy of the devs; there's no Freedom Of MMORPG Information Act.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
This underscores why 1,000 is a lousy sample size; I spent half an hour in game yesterday doing the "greens for whites/whites for greens" shuffle, and got two Sensor Officers, which I've since sold on the Exchange.
You just can't tell much from that sample size with this many possible variables. 1,000 would be fine if your division was "Ground vs. Space", but there are 46 different kinds of doffs; you need a HUGE sample to get anything meaningful from it.
The math behind this is somewhat complex, but let me try to explain. With 46 possible outcomes, and assuming all outcomes are supposed to be equal, that means each time you obtain a Doff you should have ~2.2% chance of getting a specific type. Since he didn't get an officer on 800 tries, we can deduct the following:
To reach expectations, at a minimum that means the next 16 officers he opens would have to be of the type he is looking for to make ~2.2%. The probability of that happening is near zero.
Assuming each time he unpacks a Doff he has 2.2% chance of having the type he is looking for, it would take him 31,200 officers to come near the percentage he is expecting.
#1 is unlikely, and #2 would defeat the point of sampling. The truth will be somewhere in the middle.
In other words, further experimentation to prove his point wouldn't yield anything useful as he is certain to get a sensory officer at some point. And it would ridiculous to suggest he has to unpack 31k officers before you will agree to his findings.
But is 800 a good sample size? Well, it could be better, but it certainly isn't "lousy" and it does quantify his argument. What his results show is that he is 95% confident that unpacking a sensory officers cannot be greater than the 2.2% return expected. But it doesn't show just how much lower the return percentage really is. For that he would have to unpack between 2,000 - 6,000 Doffs (or more for better accuracy).
Kobayashi Maru
Join Date: Sept 2008
"Holographic tissue paper for the holographic runny nose. Don't give them to patients." - The Doctor
The math behind this is somewhat complex, but let me try to explain. With 46 possible outcomes, and assuming all outcomes are supposed to be equal, that means each time you obtain a Doff you should have ~2.2% chance of getting a specific type. Since he didn?t get an officer on 800 tries, we can deduct the following:
To reach expectations, at a minimum that means the next 16 officers he opens would have to be of the type he is looking for to make ~2.2%. The probability of that happening is near zero.
Assuming each time he unpacks a Doff he has 2.2% chance of having the type he is looking for, it would take him 31,200 officers to come near the percentage he is expecting.
#1 is unlikely, and #2 would defeat the point of sampling. The truth will be somewhere in the middle.
In other words, further experimentation to prove his point wouldn?t yield anything useful as he is certain to get a sensory officer at some point. And it would ridiculous to suggest he has to unpack 31k officers before you will agree to his findings.
But is 800 a good sample size? Well, it could be better, but it certainly isn?t ?lousy? and it does quantify his argument. What his results show is that he is 95% confident that unpacking a sensory officers cannot be greater than the 2.2% return expected. But it doesn?t show just how much lower the return percentage really is. For that he would have to unpack between 2,000 ? 6,000 Doffs (or more for better accuracy).
Actually I have now unpacked 1600 doffs and the percentages have not changed more than 0.2% from what I posted at the 1000 mark (and out of those 1600 I have received only 1 sensor doff - but over 200 of each - ground warfare - space warfare and flight deck officer)
Thanks for explaining all of that, Kobayashaimaru. Math makes my head hurt.
I hope this gets addressed, or a dev clears up the points of confusion. I don't mind buying huge amounts of DOFFs in my quest for 30 sensor officers - I am in a 4 man fleet and have over 1.5 mil fleet creds to burn - but at some point, one of two things needs to happen.
1.) Either the projects need to be restructured away from specific DOFF job title to DOFF discipline (instead of 30 common sensor DOFFs, switch it to 30 common science DOFFs)
2.) More individual DOFFs of the types specifically slated for projects need to be created and added to the roster to adjust the amazingly low chance of randomly picking up one.
I understand we shouldn't be able to just blink and have a fully built starbase, but with the current scarcity of sensor/security doffs small fleets are coming to a halt on these projects. They have also thrown the DOFF exchange economy totally out of kilter. If you look at security and sensor DOFFs on the exchange, the commons are vastly more expensive than the uncommon and rares. In a healthy economic model, something that is truely common should never be more expensive than something that is truely rare.
Doffs are FREE (opportunity cost is a broken concept discredited in the early 22nd century)
Dilith is Free as well if you work for it
everything is Free if you work for it
Basicly your work is free, meaning it worths nothing ? Come work for me. I could use you.
No, you are mistaken. Doffs are not free, they require:
1.knowledge: where to get them. You had to spend time to aquire this knowledge. You played the game, read wiki, you spent time.
2. They require you to visit the Academy and start the appropriate recruitment missions. That involves loading screens, running, and so on, all these take time, unless, you have a character/account just for this. Still that character account needs to be created, doff system unclocked, it takes some time.
3, It takes lots of micromanagment. You need to check your roster, what is of limited capacity, and store your not immedialty used duty officers. We know what that means. That takes up the most time for me, managing the officers.
So, time, time, time. Time you could spend playing the exchange, getting energy credits, or playing the game to earn other rewards, dilithium for example. Now the time you spend is real life time. You could use that time to work for real cash, just as well. So, basicly, your time worths the amount of real time money you could earn if you spent that time working. It is absolutley not free. Time is money.
Whatever we deny or embrace, we belong togheter./ Pat Benatar
This was Posted by Brandon and what I was refering to:
# 1 Release Notes: August 9, 2012
08-08-2012, 06:22 PM
Duty Officers:
Added "Officer Exchange" assignments to Personnel Officers at Starfleet Academy and Klingon Academy.
These officers will allow you to take assignments that will exchange a single Green, Blue or Purple Duty Officer for 3 of one rarity level lower.
e.g.: 1 Green for 3 Whites
New fleet duty officers are now available!
The Personnel Officer in your starbase's Ops area can provide these new Duty Officers.
Each officer is commissioned individually.
You must have at least a tier 1 starbase to commission a general Duty Officer.
As you unlock higher tier starbases, better guaranteed quality officers become available.
Unlocking facilities at tier 2 and above also allows purchase of officers for specific disciplines.
These officers may have new active roster powers and new arrangements for fleets. As with all Duty Officers, the type received is random.
My test of 1000 doffs purchased shows that it is not "Random" at all - so is this a lie or not "properly communicated"?
Well, that's what random means. It means that it is random, but you assume that random means an equal amount of various doffs. That assumption is false. Based on low test numbers (1000 doffs are nothing if the chances are low) you cannot excpect that the recieved doffs will equally represent all types. Random means just as well 200 security doffs and not a single science one. For another person, the numbers will be different.
Whatever we deny or embrace, we belong togheter./ Pat Benatar
Well, that's what random means. It means that it is random, but you assume that random means an equal amount of various doffs. That assumption is false. Based on low test numbers (1000 doffs are nothing if the chances are low) you cannot excpect that the recieved doffs will equally represent all types. Random means just as well 200 security doffs and not a single science one. For another person, the numbers will be different.
Random doesn't mean 1 out of 1600 or 0 out of 800 when the number of possible outcomes only range from outcome 1 thru 47.
I agree that it is mathematically possible not to get the desired outcome (trying to draw the #34 out of a hopper of 47 numbers given 800 draws). However, it is not very probable that I wouldn't get the desired outcome at least once.
And again, why does it seem that sensor and security doffs are the two you are almost mathematically gauranteed not to draw while fleet projects require 30 of each to be completed? I opened 800 supposedly random boxes and of that 800, a little more than 60% were the same two types of officer (space or ground warfare) that are required for exactly -zero- fleet projects. Something isn't right with the math here.
Currently on Tribble, you can't get dilithium and CXP rewards from dismissing fleet DOffs, and fleet DOffs can't be used for starbase projects. (The latter has been confirmed as working as intended.)
Assuming that goes live tomorrow, I suspect some players might be upset by that. In fact, I can't think of any good reason to waste fleet credits on common fleet DOffs with that change.
People might want to beware of buying those common fleet DOffs on the Exchange...
Currently on Tribble, you can't get dilithium and CXP rewards from dismissing fleet DOffs, and fleet DOffs can't be used for starbase projects. (The latter has been confirmed as working as intended.)
Assuming that goes live tomorrow, I suspect some players might be upset by that. In fact, I can't think of any good reason to waste fleet credits on common fleet DOffs with that change.
People might want to beware of buying those common fleet DOffs on the Exchange...
That would be the BIGGEST mistake crptic could make - why have that Guy at all if you can't use the doffs for fleet projects??????????
No-one would buy commons for their roster!!!!
The guy was put in place to get commons - this will DESTROY half the fleets that have reached T2
Cryptic you better not do this or you will have one hell of a mess
Currently on Tribble, you can't get dilithium and CXP rewards from dismissing fleet DOffs, and fleet DOffs can't be used for starbase projects. (The latter has been confirmed as working as intended.)
Assuming that goes live tomorrow, I suspect some players might be upset by that. In fact, I can't think of any good reason to waste fleet credits on common fleet DOffs with that change.
People might want to beware of buying those common fleet DOffs on the Exchange...
Dumb on both counts. What is the justification for either, really?
If I want to convert the time I spent earning fleet credits into recruitment cxp and dilithium by buying doffs and then dismissing them from the starbase doff vendor, whats the problem? I still have an 8000 daily dilithium conversion cap so I can't abuse that by suicide dismissing my doff roster for dilithium and recruitment cxp is already horribly available compared to development/science/engineering. Its almost worse than espionage.
And not being able to use those doffs on fleet projects is incredibly stupid. Why even bother with having the vendor there in the first place? The only thing he is good for is buying doffs in the hopes of finding the supposedly common (althou in practice - seemingly very rare) security/sensor Doffs needed for the fleet projects.
I think someone has spiked the Cryptic watercooler.
Dumb on both counts. What is the justification for either, really?
If I want to convert the time I spent earning fleet credits into recruitment cxp and dilithium by buying doffs and then dismissing them from the starbase doff vendor, whats the problem? I still have an 8000 daily dilithium conversion cap so I can't abuse that by suicide dismissing my doff roster for dilithium and recruitment cxp is already horribly available compared to development/science/engineering. Its almost worse than espionage.
And not being able to use those doffs on fleet projects is incredibly stupid. Why even bother with having the vendor there in the first place? The only thing he is good for is buying doffs in the hopes of finding the supposedly common (althou in practice - seemingly very rare) security/sensor Doffs needed for the fleet projects.
I think someone has spiked the Cryptic watercooler.
You guys should throw this feedback in on the Tribble forums; that's why they're there.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
You guys should throw this feedback in on the Tribble forums; that's why they're there.
Zero will just tell me I didn't buy a large enough sample size of non-useable DOFFs for my confusion over these really badly thought-out decisions to be statistically valid.
Its perfectly clear why this has been done. Now you cant use fleet DOffs, theres only three (realistic) ways to level starbase projects:
1. Standard recruitment, including breaking down colonial chain purple DOffs, boiling/breaking Fleet ones, and the 2-3 days DOff assignments from the academies. This, will take a long time, especially if you're waiting for specific DOffs..
2. Buy DOff Packs! = More $$$ generated
3. Select starbase projects that dont need DOffs, but need Dilith instead = More $$$ generated.
This is a new low. As is the stealthing of it being introduced with no warning, and the "working as intended" official brush off.
He should have just said "you guys should talk about this somewhere where no one will read it."
There are a lot of Cryptic employees who rarely or never post, so forum readers don't know who they are. Those employees work on various things, and many of them read the forums associated with their projects. (And others get the feedback shared with them by those who do.)
So if there's one thread about a problem, and it's in the forum for that component, devs can easily follow along and see everybody's feedback.
If instead there are a dozen threads in three or four different forums, many of those posts may never be seen by some of the devs who ought to see them.
This is why we consolidate threads and put them in the appropriate places. It's to benefit both the players and the devs.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
Its perfectly clear why this has been done. Now you cant use fleet DOffs, theres only three (realistic) ways to level starbase projects:
1. Standard recruitment, including breaking down colonial chain purple DOffs, boiling/breaking Fleet ones, and the 2-3 days DOff assignments from the academies. This, will take a long time, especially if you're waiting for specific DOffs..
2. Buy DOff Packs! = More $$$ generated
3. Select starbase projects that dont need DOffs, but need Dilith instead = More $$$ generated.
This is a new low. As is the stealthing of it being introduced with no warning, and the "working as intended" official brush off.
Hey its a F2P game. Time = Money. Do you want your stuff quick? then spend some zen. Want it free? Then go grind. How does anyone find this suprising?
You should be glad that you even have the option to do it free in a F2P game and its not locked behind some other micro transaction content unlock.
Hey its a F2P game. Time = Money. Do you want your stuff quick? then spend some zen. Want it free? Then go grind. How does anyone find this suprising?
You should be glad that you even have the option to do it free in a F2P game and its not locked behind some other micro transaction content unlock.
Sadly this.
Any time a change occurs in STO and people ask 'why the hell did they do that?' just look for the money. Cryptic no longer makes changes to STO to enhance gameplay. They make changes to enhance revenue. Fleets (by way of their requirements) are a big money-maker for Cryptic.
Fleet Doffs were a potential problem because, if usable in Fleet projects, they could undermine C-$tore Doff pack sales. Problem fixed, working as intended.
But at least we can play for free. Things will take a lot longer, but that's way better than the alternative. As unhappy as I was with the F2P transition I can honestly say things could be much worse.
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Comments
And even then, Sollvax is still wrong. Unless, of course, Sollvax's time isn't worth anything.
Well, maybe his isn't....
Sollvax also believes that in the end the American justice system always gets it`s man - even if it takes decades - and always the right man! - that is parapharsing him from another thread which got removed I believe.
This underscores why 1,000 is a lousy sample size; I spent half an hour in game yesterday doing the "greens for whites/whites for greens" shuffle, and got two Sensor Officers, which I've since sold on the Exchange.
You just can't tell much from that sample size with this many possible variables. 1,000 would be fine if your division was "Ground vs. Space", but there are 46 different kinds of doffs; you need a HUGE sample to get anything meaningful from it.
2 things - the Starbase vendor and the Star fleet academy seem to work diferently
also I kno exactly what you are saying is supposedly lousy:
For every security doff I recieved - I got 12 Ground warfare doffs and 10 Space warfare doffs
in 1200 doffs that I have purchased now at the Starbase I got 1 sensor officer!
Just how big a sample size would you need when total is only 46 possible?
This logic does not compute. I will bet that if there are no chages I could do 10,000
I would get Lots of Tactical and almost no Security
I would get lots of Operations and Few Engenieering
I would get Lots of Med and few Science
And that is the whole point of the experient - not the individual doff received - but how many in each of the 2 sub categories that are required for the 1000xp starbase project
It is CLEAR they provide lots of one component doff and few of the other - deliberately
Really I am not interested in how many grond warfare it is or space warfare - or armory or security - all I know is that I need 60 tactical and 60 security(type) doffs - not to be confused with security sepecialization
I know that in 250 packs I will be able to fill up the 60 Tactical doffs - but only have 10/60 of security category filled -THAT IS THE PROBLEM
I'm not sure; I'm not good enough at the math to do it on paper, and on all the online calculators I've tried to use, it exceeds the maximum size for an integer, which is probably 2.1 billion-ish.
I may be trying to get the margin of error too close though; I was using +/- 5%.
Well stats was never my strong suit - that number seems a little high - what formula were you using?
Apples and oranges. I am not talking about trading in one type for three of another. I too seem to have better luck with the "random" outcome of downgrading rather than the "random" outcome of purchasing at the starbase.
I am talking about buying 800 boxes that should have only 46 possible outcomes...and in 800 attempts only "randomly" getting 3 security and 0 sensor officers. If there was 300 different DOFFs, I would agree 800-1000 wouldn't be a big enough sample. When there is only 46 DOFFs and you are getting the same two types (Ground warfare/Space warfare) 60% of the time, there is something decidely un-random going on.
And I'm not saying its an evil conspiracy. I've been here since day 1 - I know how Cryptic rolls. If I'm right and the sensor/security aren't dropping at their proper rate, its more likely someone screwed up the math then someone is intentionally trying to TRIBBLE us.
As I have said before _- I love the game - there are just things that they do that could be different
I posted this vid before - I want you to pretend that the Doctor is us the player and Cryptic is Garak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t02v9EUHs30&feature=related
The wrong one, because further reflection tells me there's numbers we have to have to do this that we simply don't have.
DOFFs aren't generated randomly to order; each one is a hand-crafted creation, if I'm remembering past dev posts correctly. So in order to determine what the actual odds should be, we'd have to know how many doffs of each type there are in the database. We don't have those numbers.
Without that we can't even begin to guess what sample size would be sufficient for any desired Confidence Level. So I'm just going to take the devs' word for it that 1,000 ain't it until I have more information. Others are of course free to choose not to do so.
Now, if a dev were to come in and say "there are X doffs, of which Y are Security Officers, Z are Assault Squad, etc.", then we could compute what size sample you'd need to get a CL of 95% that the distribution from a given source is acceptably random.
We are, as usual, at the mercy of the devs; there's no Freedom Of MMORPG Information Act.
The math behind this is somewhat complex, but let me try to explain. With 46 possible outcomes, and assuming all outcomes are supposed to be equal, that means each time you obtain a Doff you should have ~2.2% chance of getting a specific type. Since he didn't get an officer on 800 tries, we can deduct the following:
In other words, further experimentation to prove his point wouldn't yield anything useful as he is certain to get a sensory officer at some point. And it would ridiculous to suggest he has to unpack 31k officers before you will agree to his findings.
But is 800 a good sample size? Well, it could be better, but it certainly isn't "lousy" and it does quantify his argument. What his results show is that he is 95% confident that unpacking a sensory officers cannot be greater than the 2.2% return expected. But it doesn't show just how much lower the return percentage really is. For that he would have to unpack between 2,000 - 6,000 Doffs (or more for better accuracy).
Join Date: Sept 2008
"Holographic tissue paper for the holographic runny nose. Don't give them to patients." - The Doctor
Actually I have now unpacked 1600 doffs and the percentages have not changed more than 0.2% from what I posted at the 1000 mark (and out of those 1600 I have received only 1 sensor doff - but over 200 of each - ground warfare - space warfare and flight deck officer)
I hope this gets addressed, or a dev clears up the points of confusion. I don't mind buying huge amounts of DOFFs in my quest for 30 sensor officers - I am in a 4 man fleet and have over 1.5 mil fleet creds to burn - but at some point, one of two things needs to happen.
1.) Either the projects need to be restructured away from specific DOFF job title to DOFF discipline (instead of 30 common sensor DOFFs, switch it to 30 common science DOFFs)
2.) More individual DOFFs of the types specifically slated for projects need to be created and added to the roster to adjust the amazingly low chance of randomly picking up one.
I understand we shouldn't be able to just blink and have a fully built starbase, but with the current scarcity of sensor/security doffs small fleets are coming to a halt on these projects. They have also thrown the DOFF exchange economy totally out of kilter. If you look at security and sensor DOFFs on the exchange, the commons are vastly more expensive than the uncommon and rares. In a healthy economic model, something that is truely common should never be more expensive than something that is truely rare.
Basicly your work is free, meaning it worths nothing ? Come work for me. I could use you.
No, you are mistaken. Doffs are not free, they require:
1.knowledge: where to get them. You had to spend time to aquire this knowledge. You played the game, read wiki, you spent time.
2. They require you to visit the Academy and start the appropriate recruitment missions. That involves loading screens, running, and so on, all these take time, unless, you have a character/account just for this. Still that character account needs to be created, doff system unclocked, it takes some time.
3, It takes lots of micromanagment. You need to check your roster, what is of limited capacity, and store your not immedialty used duty officers. We know what that means. That takes up the most time for me, managing the officers.
So, time, time, time. Time you could spend playing the exchange, getting energy credits, or playing the game to earn other rewards, dilithium for example. Now the time you spend is real life time. You could use that time to work for real cash, just as well. So, basicly, your time worths the amount of real time money you could earn if you spent that time working. It is absolutley not free. Time is money.
Well, that's what random means. It means that it is random, but you assume that random means an equal amount of various doffs. That assumption is false. Based on low test numbers (1000 doffs are nothing if the chances are low) you cannot excpect that the recieved doffs will equally represent all types. Random means just as well 200 security doffs and not a single science one. For another person, the numbers will be different.
Random doesn't mean 1 out of 1600 or 0 out of 800 when the number of possible outcomes only range from outcome 1 thru 47.
I agree that it is mathematically possible not to get the desired outcome (trying to draw the #34 out of a hopper of 47 numbers given 800 draws). However, it is not very probable that I wouldn't get the desired outcome at least once.
And again, why does it seem that sensor and security doffs are the two you are almost mathematically gauranteed not to draw while fleet projects require 30 of each to be completed? I opened 800 supposedly random boxes and of that 800, a little more than 60% were the same two types of officer (space or ground warfare) that are required for exactly -zero- fleet projects. Something isn't right with the math here.
Assuming that goes live tomorrow, I suspect some players might be upset by that. In fact, I can't think of any good reason to waste fleet credits on common fleet DOffs with that change.
People might want to beware of buying those common fleet DOffs on the Exchange...
That would be the BIGGEST mistake crptic could make - why have that Guy at all if you can't use the doffs for fleet projects??????????
No-one would buy commons for their roster!!!!
The guy was put in place to get commons - this will DESTROY half the fleets that have reached T2
Cryptic you better not do this or you will have one hell of a mess
Dumb on both counts. What is the justification for either, really?
If I want to convert the time I spent earning fleet credits into recruitment cxp and dilithium by buying doffs and then dismissing them from the starbase doff vendor, whats the problem? I still have an 8000 daily dilithium conversion cap so I can't abuse that by suicide dismissing my doff roster for dilithium and recruitment cxp is already horribly available compared to development/science/engineering. Its almost worse than espionage.
And not being able to use those doffs on fleet projects is incredibly stupid. Why even bother with having the vendor there in the first place? The only thing he is good for is buying doffs in the hopes of finding the supposedly common (althou in practice - seemingly very rare) security/sensor Doffs needed for the fleet projects.
I think someone has spiked the Cryptic watercooler.
You guys should throw this feedback in on the Tribble forums; that's why they're there.
Zero will just tell me I didn't buy a large enough sample size of non-useable DOFFs for my confusion over these really badly thought-out decisions to be statistically valid.
This is a show I have to see!!
Not to mention what will happen on the exchange - exciting times!!
Hm that went really well I'd say.
He should have just said "you guys should talk about this somewhere where no one will read it."
1. Standard recruitment, including breaking down colonial chain purple DOffs, boiling/breaking Fleet ones, and the 2-3 days DOff assignments from the academies. This, will take a long time, especially if you're waiting for specific DOffs..
2. Buy DOff Packs! = More $$$ generated
3. Select starbase projects that dont need DOffs, but need Dilith instead = More $$$ generated.
This is a new low. As is the stealthing of it being introduced with no warning, and the "working as intended" official brush off.
Ninth Fleet - 20 years, from SFC2:EAW to STO and still going strong...
PLS - NO NAME CALLING OR FLAMING
Crptic Has made a decision - we don't agree with it - they will have to deal with the effects as we will
That said let the game continue!!
There are a lot of Cryptic employees who rarely or never post, so forum readers don't know who they are. Those employees work on various things, and many of them read the forums associated with their projects. (And others get the feedback shared with them by those who do.)
So if there's one thread about a problem, and it's in the forum for that component, devs can easily follow along and see everybody's feedback.
If instead there are a dozen threads in three or four different forums, many of those posts may never be seen by some of the devs who ought to see them.
This is why we consolidate threads and put them in the appropriate places. It's to benefit both the players and the devs.
Hey its a F2P game. Time = Money. Do you want your stuff quick? then spend some zen. Want it free? Then go grind. How does anyone find this suprising?
You should be glad that you even have the option to do it free in a F2P game and its not locked behind some other micro transaction content unlock.
Sadly this.
Any time a change occurs in STO and people ask 'why the hell did they do that?' just look for the money. Cryptic no longer makes changes to STO to enhance gameplay. They make changes to enhance revenue. Fleets (by way of their requirements) are a big money-maker for Cryptic.
Fleet Doffs were a potential problem because, if usable in Fleet projects, they could undermine C-$tore Doff pack sales. Problem fixed, working as intended.
But at least we can play for free. Things will take a lot longer, but that's way better than the alternative. As unhappy as I was with the F2P transition I can honestly say things could be much worse.