The True Cost of a Starbase Is Staggering Billions of EC

levi3

Many people have noted the Dilthium sink of building a Starbase and that in itself is HUGE

Take just the Full upgrage to Tier 2 each supsection requires 108k Dilth and the Upgrade itself another 216K dilth

So over 500,000 dilth to upgrade to tier 2

Now to the EC cost/opportunity cost of moving on to Tier 3

The bulk of the cost is still in Doffs - while Cryptic provided a way to get doffs from your starbase I did a test and bought 1000 doffs and gave the breakdown here:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=5339231&postcount=36

297 Tactical Doffs = 29.7% chance
38 Security Doffs = 3.8% chance - You have less than a 4% chance getting security doff!!
73 Engineering doffs = 7.3%
271 Operational doffs = 20.4%
90 Science doffs = 9%
231 edical Doffs = 23.1%


So lets take 1 Military 1000 xp tier 3 project as and example

Now before people start saying you can get doffs for free - using them is still what's called in finance/accounting and "opportunity" cost - simple what you could get if you did not use the doff into the project

so the requirement for 1000xp tier 3 Military:

60 Tactical doffs - cost 40k ec eack = $2.4 million EC
60 Security doffs - cost 200k ec eack = $16 million EC!!!

100 MK 3 torps 4k each = 400k EC

3000 Provisions - cost 75 ec eack = 225,000 ec

600 Fleet Marks cost - ????

So just 1 assignment for tier 3 = a cost/opportunity cost of $19 Million EC!!(not including fleet marks

23 millitary assigments to complete tier 3 = 19x23 = $437 MILLION ec - Just for Millitary

the others cost 1/2 as much so to tier 3 is a cost/opportunity cost of almost $1 BILLION EC

So is it worth it??? (cost to tier 2 is already several Hunderd million ec)

So if you skipped tier 3 and put all those resources on exchange you would have $1 billion ec for your fleet - not including the Fleet marks and dilth

tobar26th

I hate to say it but does it matter? Energy credits =/= real money so hey, who cares I'm not counting how many bullets I fired to defeat the Zerg in Starcraft

That said, I'd love to see a cost break down by dilithium ;-) That'd be an interesting figure

thecosmic1

Is it worth it? It depends on the individual Fleet. For a 1-person Fleet? No, probably not. For a 150-person Fleet it's not all that difficult. It's even less difficult for long-time players. I mean I alone have over 400 million EC and over 3 million Dilithium I can contribute - assuming I wanted to. And there's always ways for people to make quick ECs: Selling Keys, Modules, etc.

Of course I don't find the Fleet project all that interesting. I mean, it's a lot of grinding just to get some Fleet Ships - that I have to pay money for. Personally, I'd rather join a larger Fleet and just buy my Fleet ships from them - and use my EC to buy the Modules on the Exchange.

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lostmoony

for you again nobody known how much exactly will tier 5 lvl cost or the total starbase, but it will be insane price yes.

so join the bigest fleet what you can find on that way the cost will be the lowest as possiple ea player.;)

and yes small fleets burning recoures down for nothing they will never reach the end.:eek:

sollvax

Doffs are FREE (opportunity cost is a broken concept discredited in the early 22nd century)

Dilith is Free as well if you work for it

everything is Free if you work for it

blakes7tvseries

If you sold your resources on the exchange you still will not be able to buy from the fleet store.

rickeyredshirt

I run a one person fleet and haven't had any issues with Doffs just yet. Every 18 hours I go to Starfleet Academy and see the Vulcan, Tellarite, and Andorian Personnel Officers as well as the Personnel Officer by Lt. Ferra, who gives me 5 more recruitment missions. I can net anywhere from 12-20 common doffs just on these missions alone. I then mail them to myself and store them as opposed to keeping them on the active roster. I have quite a reserve of common boffs going now.

lostmoony

i think dil will kill most starbases fleet marks is also possible.


if 1x projekt on tier 4 eats for example will cost 500k-1mio dil where take this in small fleets, yes no way thats the point not doffs or other junk.;)

levi3

Perhaps a little confusion - as my post was primarily aimed at small fleets

Second my analysis through the doff experiment with commons from the starbase proves that this is not effective for some doffs

"If" Cryptic said that the doffs you get from buying them from the starbase would be Random - then this is an out and out Lie by Cryptic

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arcademaster

rickeyredshirt wrote: »

I run a one person fleet and haven't had any issues with Doffs just yet. Every 18 hours I go to Starfleet Academy and see the Vulcan, Tellarite, and Andorian Personnel Officers as well as the Personnel Officer by Lt. Ferra, who gives me 5 more recruitment missions.

And this is just a lie, those missions have a 64-72 hour cooldown. What you are probably doing is farming those doffs over and over on multiple alt accounts, but then at least admit that and don't make up a story.

thecosmic1

arcademaster wrote: »

And this is just a lie, those missions have a 64-72 hour cooldown. What you are probably doing is farming those doffs over and over on multiple alt accounts, but then at least admit that and don't make up a story.

He might just have a lot of alts, and rotates them between Recruitment missions - I do. 1 character can get 2 Recruitment Missions per week, which is 14ish Doffs per week. If you have 10 alts you're looking at 140 DOFFs per week for what amounts to, maybe, 30 minutes of work to get them all.

rickeyredshirt

*remove me, double post*

rickeyredshirt

arcademaster wrote: »

And this is just a lie, those missions have a 64-72 hour cooldown. What you are probably doing is farming those doffs over and over on multiple alt accounts, but then at least admit that and don't make up a story.

lol. It's not a lie. I suggest you go try before you post on the forums and accuse a fellow player.

thecosmic1 wrote: »

He might just have a lot of alts, and rotates them between Recruitment missions - I do. 1 character can get 2 Recruitment Missions per week, which is 14ish Doffs per week. If you have 10 alts you're looking at 140 DOFFs per week for what amounts to, maybe, 30 minutes of work to get them all.

This. I actually have 7 KDF and 7 STF characters so yes that helps. If you crit these missions, you either get a few more commons or a better rarity of doff (which now can be downgraded into even more doffs). Not sure what the exact cooldown is as it is never displayed, but I have no problem running and collecting on these missions every other day.

j4ck5p4rr0w

tobar26th wrote: »

I hate to say it but does it matter?

The person who posted this thread obviously thought so.

tobar26th

j4ck5p4rr0w wrote: »

The person who posted this thread obviously thought so.

Haha indeed true, I guess my point was more along the lines of - 'what's a game without a goal?'

syberghost

sollvax wrote: »

Doffs are FREE (opportunity cost is a broken concept discredited in the early 22nd century)

Dilith is Free as well if you work for it

everything is Free if you work for it

Dil is the interesting one there, since it has a measurable real-world value; last time I checked, 182 Dil costs about a penny in US dollars.

If you discount opportunity costs, however, come wash my truck for free; I'd normally pay someone to do that, but you don't believe in opportunity costs, so your time has no value.

rickeyredshirt

I know, screenshots or it didn't happen right? Here you go.

General Recruitment: 5 Doffs from Doff Pack
Andorian Cultural Exchange: 1
Tellarite Cultural Exchange: 1
Vulcan Cultural Exchange: 1
Fed Junior Tactical Officer Cadre: 3 (crit)
Fed Junior Engineering Officer Cadre: 2
Fed Junior Science Officer Cadre: 3 (crit)
Fed Civil Corps Officer Cadre: 2
Total: 18

These Doffs are at least common in rarity, I have not seen if I got any green/blue/purple Doffs, which would only add to this total as they can be broken down further all the way commons. This is for 1 turn on 1 character.

szim

Is the Fleet Starbase a gigantic ressource annhilator? YES

Are the costs per person smaller in big fleets? YES

Should you join a big fleet until you have your fleet vessel? ABSOLUTELY


The ressource requirements of Tier 1 and 2 starbase projects seem excessive? Wait till you see the Tier 4 and 5 requirements!

beezle23

rickeyredshirt wrote: »

I know, screenshots or it didn't happen right? Here you go.

General Recruitment: 5 Doffs from Doff Pack
Andorian Cultural Exchange: 1
Tellarite Cultural Exchange: 1
Vulcan Cultural Exchange: 1
Fed Junior Tactical Officer Cadre: 3 (crit)
Fed Junior Engineering Officer Cadre: 2
Fed Junior Science Officer Cadre: 3 (crit)
Fed Civil Corps Officer Cadre: 2
Total: 18

These Doffs are at least common in rarity, I have not seen if I got any green/blue/purple Doffs, which would only add to this total as they can be broken down further all the way commons. This is for 1 turn on 1 character.

That "18" is lovely and believable, what people are taking issue with is your quote "Every 18 hours I go to Starfleet Academy "

The runtime + cooldown is 48 for some of the recruiting missions, 72 for others (1 or 2 day run time + 24hr cooldown).

rickeyredshirt

beezle23 wrote: »

That "18" is lovely and believable, what people are taking issue with is your quote "Every 18 hours I go to Starfleet Academy "

The runtime + cooldown is 48 for some of the recruiting missions, 72 for others (1 or 2 day run time + 24hr cooldown).

As I stated in my previous post, I have no issues running and collecting on these missions every other day. (Yes all 8 of them)

beezle23

rickeyredshirt wrote: »

As I stated in my previous post

The post before that. 18hrs =/= every other day.

rickeyredshirt wrote: »

Every 18 hours I go to Starfleet Academy

Just trying to clear up confusion.

And I tend to go there daily and pick up the missions. because I've managed to get my characters out of sync.

rickeyredshirt

Ok, and I corrected myself in my next post. What's your problem? Bad day already?

beezle23

rickeyredshirt wrote: »

What's your problem? Bad day already?

I'm making the mistake of being on the internet when I should be asleep.

thepleasuredome

An investor site called Seeking Alpha did an article (last line of my signature) on how the monetization of starbases would have an impact on the profits of PW, in a good way. The author researched and concluded starbases would cost at least $1500 real word dollars each on average (massive paraphrase). Cryptic's own numbers say there are over 7000 fleets in STO. That's $10,500,000 in revenue for Cryptic in 7 months.

Since EC can now be converted by buying keys and ship consoles and the like for real money, and is traded on the black market, EC also has a real money equivalent. It is no longer free. Because some of it can be earned for free it is discounted, but it is no longer free.

topset

thepleasuredome wrote: »

An investor site called Seeking Alpha did an article (last line of my signature) on how the monetization of starbases would have an impact on the profits of PW, in a good way. The author researched and concluded starbases would cost at least $1500 real word dollars each on average (massive paraphrase). Cryptic's own numbers say there are over 7000 fleets in STO. That's $10,500,000 in revenue for Cryptic in 7 months.

Since EC can now be converted by buying keys and ship consoles and the like for real money, and is traded on the black market, EC also has a real money equivalent. It is no longer free. Because some of it can be earned for free it is discounted, but it is no longer free.

I have to disagree with this. Sure, I'm sure a fair few people spend real money to make EC - but it doesn't have a real world value like dilithium does. Dilithium is capped at 8k/day/toon. EC has no such limits!

There are plenty of people (myself included) who can make far more EC in a week than the people dumping $100 into FSMs and selling them on the exchange.

There's a huge different between getting 200k dil, and getting 50m EC. Grinding 200k dilithium will take you 25 days at max capacity (for one character). Grinding 50m EC might take you 25 days, but it might take you 5 if you're skilled at playing the market.

I don't think you should equate them to both being RW currencies.

thecosmic1

topset wrote: »

I have to disagree with this. Sure, I'm sure a fair few people spend real money to make EC - but it doesn't have a real world value like dilithium does. Dilithium is capped at 8k/day/toon. EC has no such limits!

There are plenty of people (myself included) who can make far more EC in a week than the people dumping $100 into FSMs and selling them on the exchange.

There's a huge different between getting 200k dil, and getting 50m EC. Grinding 200k dilithium will take you 25 days at max capacity (for one character). Grinding 50m EC might take you 25 days, but it might take you 5 if you're skilled at playing the market.

I don't think you should equate them to both being RW currencies.

Dilithium has an 8,000 limit per character. I routinely make over 17,000 Dilithium per day in just 2-2.5 hours using multiple alts. I average between 500,000 and 600,000 Dilithium per month. I can earn enough Dilithium to buy a Key in 3ish hours and sell it on the Exchange for a million+ - I am assuming around a million as I've never bought or sold a Key there.

levi3

levi3 wrote: »

"If" Cryptic said that the doffs you get from buying them from the starbase would be Random - then this is an out and out Lie by Cryptic

This was Posted by Brandon and what I was refering to:

# 1 Release Notes: August 9, 2012
08-08-2012, 06:22 PM


Duty Officers:


Added "Officer Exchange" assignments to Personnel Officers at Starfleet Academy and Klingon Academy.
These officers will allow you to take assignments that will exchange a single Green, Blue or Purple Duty Officer for 3 of one rarity level lower.
e.g.: 1 Green for 3 Whites
New fleet duty officers are now available!
The Personnel Officer in your starbase's Ops area can provide these new Duty Officers.
Each officer is commissioned individually.
You must have at least a tier 1 starbase to commission a general Duty Officer.
As you unlock higher tier starbases, better guaranteed quality officers become available.
Unlocking facilities at tier 2 and above also allows purchase of officers for specific disciplines.
These officers may have new active roster powers and new arrangements for fleets.
As with all Duty Officers, the type received is random.


My test of 1000 doffs purchased shows that it is not "Random" at all - so is this a lie or not "properly communicated"?

tobar26th

levi3 wrote: »

This was Posted by Brandon and what I was refering to:

# 1 Release Notes: August 9, 2012
08-08-2012, 06:22 PM


Duty Officers:


Added "Officer Exchange" assignments to Personnel Officers at Starfleet Academy and Klingon Academy.
These officers will allow you to take assignments that will exchange a single Green, Blue or Purple Duty Officer for 3 of one rarity level lower.
e.g.: 1 Green for 3 Whites
New fleet duty officers are now available!
The Personnel Officer in your starbase's Ops area can provide these new Duty Officers.
Each officer is commissioned individually.
You must have at least a tier 1 starbase to commission a general Duty Officer.
As you unlock higher tier starbases, better guaranteed quality officers become available.
Unlocking facilities at tier 2 and above also allows purchase of officers for specific disciplines.
These officers may have new active roster powers and new arrangements for fleets.
As with all Duty Officers, the type received is random.


My test of 1000 doffs purchased shows that it is not "Random" at all - so is this a lie or not "properly communicated"?

Random doesn't necessarily equate to equal chance. You're thinking of rolling a dice (a normal 1 to 6 die) where you have an equal chance of receiving a result of either 1,2,3,4,5,6.

Equally if you had a six sided die with the sides labelled 1,1,3,4,5,6 you've still got a random result - but with a greater chance of receiving a number 1.

sardocian

Not only that, but it may actually be truely random. For example, lets say there are a total of 100 different common DOffs (not speciality, just names). Out of that 100, there may be 5 security officers, 2 Astrometrics, 1 sensor officer, ect, ect. So you really do get a random DOff, it's just that the DOff specializations arent distributed equally.