the point in this is ea projekt will cost on high tier lvl 500k-1mio dil so that will kill most starbases.
so you gring 1 month for 1 projekt but you have run 10 projekts ea starbase part so you see solo you will need 10+ years to finish a starbase good luck in that.
the only way to craft a starbase is join a big fleet like i have done it.;)
IIRC, what I think I was replying to in that post was the idea of hard it was to make Dilithium in comparison to making EC - I find it easier to make Dilithium then EC. And now, with things like Keys and EV Suits, the two are linked. I can play 3 hours and earn Dilithium and buy an item, like a Key, and sell it for 1 million+ EC.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
IIRC, what I think I was replying to in that post was the idea of hard it was to make Dilithium in comparison to making EC - I find it easier to make Dilithium then EC. .
dil i can make daily 8k i dont play alt,.... EC i can make daily how much i will so.:D
and ec or dil never seen a projekt in starbase what need EC so EC or not EC....;)
Exactly - as I said I don't think anyone would spend credits to get credits as the Dev suggested in his post - you get back less than you spend so it's a losing strategy.
It is simply put in place to try to deal with the huge imbalance of doff prices - they had 2 choices as I see it - add another route to get doffs or change the requirements and I think this one was simpler to do.
That said there is still a HUGE in balance between 1 of 2 doff requirements of each subsection with Security being the most glaring at only a 4% chance - I certainly hope my experiment and thread - which has lead to a Dev posting(Always appreciated!!!) makes the changes to the rates in the next patch put out.
I'm not sure you understood what I was aiming at here... fleet credits are relatively expendable for small fleets - precisely the fleets that will have the most issues getting stuff. As a result, spending credits to get credits is a winning strategy despite the fact that you (the donator) lose some credits. You retain more valuable resources such as EC, dilithium, and other things, at the cheap (depending on fleet size, maybe not so cheap) price of a few thousand credits.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
I hate to say it but does it matter? Energy credits =/= real money so hey, who cares
it translates to real money when people start buying cstore items to sell on the exchange to get credits to pay for their fleet projects. quite a few people do
lol. It's not a lie. I suggest you go try before you post on the forums and accuse a fellow player.
no, it was a lie because you implied you did it on 1 character
I have to disagree with this. Sure, I'm sure a fair few people spend real money to make EC - but it doesn't have a real world value like dilithium does
it does when people are selling things they bought on the cstore for EC. the cap has nothing to do with it
Random doesn't necessarily equate to equal chance. You're thinking of rolling a dice (a normal 1 to 6 die) where you have an equal chance of receiving a result of either 1,2,3,4,5,6.
this. and remember, random numbers generated by a computer aren't random
I notice everything about the game and if Cryptic would listen to me then I could make them boatloads of money
somehow I doubt that
Thanks for posting - its nice to see that someone has faith in my experiment and conclusions
except that you have no idea what you are talking about. you're making things up based on ideas you came up with rather than actual data
except that you have no idea what you are talking about. you're making things up based on ideas you came up with rather than actual data
Are you saying the 1000 doffs I purchased and recorded what category they fell under does not qualify as data? It is somehow made up info based on a theory? I may not know exactly what the "random" algorithoms used by Cryptic are - which as you say are not random - but i can get a general idea as to what I am going to get based on my "data"
this. and remember, random numbers generated by a computer aren't random
Well there is that too ;-) I just felt I would be getting a bit far into computer geekdom if I started on the 'no such thing as random' explanation ;-) Took me a few classes to get my brain around that one I assure you - but true!
Well there is that too ;-) I just felt I would be getting a bit far into computer geekdom if I started on the 'no such thing as random' explanation ;-) Took me a few classes to get my brain around that one I assure you - but true!
Congratz on the purples finally coming through! It's purdy.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
except that you have no idea what you are talking about. you're making things up based on ideas you came up with rather than actual data
That is a fairly strong accusation. Even if you think the OP made this up, there are experiments done by others showing the same thing. For example, here is another thread conducting a different experiment which shows similar results:
Random doesn't necessarily equate to equal chance. You're thinking of rolling a dice (a normal 1 to 6 die) where you have an equal chance of receiving a result of either 1,2,3,4,5,6.
Equally if you had a six sided die with the sides labelled 1,1,3,4,5,6 you've still got a random result - but with a greater chance of receiving a number 1.
Well spun... however would it be reasonable to assume that the expectation is an equal chance rather than weighted?
That is a fairly strong accusation. Even if you think the OP made this up, there are experiments done by others showing the same thing. For example, here is another thread conducting a different experiment which shows similar results:
Still the idea that I would make it up is silly - when others had already made the same observastions but on a smalle scale. I am starting the Tier 2 upgrade now and need 180 doffs for it so i got another 200 and the results were the same.
Now Cryptic has indicated that it would be random - now I am not a computer person and you could make all kinds of wordy excuses to cover up what they are doing: providing lots of 1 sub component doff (ie tac lots sec few - Med lots - sci few)
But this is what I consider when someone like Brandon says that the doff you get is "random" - you have a bucket full of the 40+ different doff specialties - you reach in and pull one out - that is what you get - that is random - then you put that doff back in the bucket - next time you reach in you could get the exact same specialty of doff -that is random.
Maybe I am just stupid but that is my idea of random.
Still the idea that I would make it up is silly - when others had already made the same observastions but on a smalle scale. I am starting the Tier 2 upgrade now and need 180 doffs for it so i got another 200 and the results were the same.
Now Cryptic has indicated that it would be random - now I am not a computer person and you could make all kinds of wordy excuses to cover up what they are doing: providing lots of 1 sub component doff (ie tac lots sec few - Med lots - sci few)
But this is what I consider when someone like Brandon says that the doff you get is "random" - you have bucked full of the 40+ different doff specialties - you reach in and pull one out - that is what you get - that is random - then you put that doff back in the buck - next time you reach in you could get the exact same specialty of doff -that is random.
Maybe I am just stupid but that is my idea of random.
I agree...I have not done any statistical analysis, but I do see some obvious trends from the doff atm on the Starbase:
* bunches and bunches of Warfare Specialists
* many Flight Deck Officers
* many Science Officers
* zero Sensor Officers
I have gotten two Sensor Officers from doing many SFA Recruit Missions.
Well spun... however would it be reasonable to assume that the expectation is an equal chance rather than weighted?
I really don't think anyone should have an expectation of equal odds in a FTP game. Every aspect of a FTP game is going to be biased toward the publisher. The goal is to give people ways to get things for free (something the majority of FTP games don't give their players), but make getting them difficult enough that many people will be more willing to buy them rather then simply earn them.
While this is a hobby to us it is a business to them and Cryptic's primary job is to make money for its investors - which include me.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I really don't think anyone should have an expectation of equal odds in a FTP game. Every aspect of a FTP game is going to be biased toward the publisher. The goal is to give people ways to get things for free (something the majority of FTP games don't give their players), but make getting them difficult enough that many people will be more willing to buy them rather then simply earn them.
While this is a hobby to us it is a business to them and Cryptic's primary job is to make money for its investors - which include me.
As I stated before I am all for Cryptic?pwe making money - the Dev`s need to be paid servers need to run - PWE needs to make a profit- etc etc
This doff issue is more of an annoyance issue - especially to the smaller fleets and cryptic needs to remove as many annoyance issues as possibe - especially when the dilth requirements are Astronomical
I just found out that it will require over 1.5 million dilth just for the three Tier 3 projects plus the tier 3 upgrade itself make it even more than 1.5 with the Transwarp gate
At this point I see T3 as the end of the line for any fleet under 10 active(and I don`t know what % of fleets of the 10k fleets Crptic claims have less than 10 people active)
At this point I see T3 as the end of the line for any fleet under 10 active(and I don`t know what % of fleets of the 10k fleets Crptic claims have less than 10 people active)
Then that's the end of the line. That might sound harsh but it is a Fleet system. It was never designed to be anything else.
But at the same time who knows what the requirements will be next year? They might be cut in half, or you might get tons more FMs and drops by then. Look at how much leveling speed has changed in this game. Things change.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
But at the same time who knows what the requirements will be next year? They might be cut in half, or you might get tons more FMs and drops by then. Look at how much leveling speed has changed in this game. Things change.
That would be a guareeteed way to TRIBBLE off half the people in the game.
That would be a guareeteed way to TRIBBLE off half the people in the game.
It happens in games all the time. Remember when the "old" Borg gear was the best? Things in MMOs always change - and people are going to be pissed off if they change and if they don't change.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
It happens in games all the time. Remember when the "old" Borg gear was the best? Things in MMOs always change - and people are going to be pissed off if they change and if they don't change.
Somehow I think people will put more attachment to the time and resources they invest in getting a Starbase then a set of old`gear
Somehow I think people will put more attachment to the time and resources they invest in getting a Starbase then a set of old`gear
I don't believe they will. Did people get angry when it took half as much time to get to VA after FTP then it did before FTP? Did all the old players start screaming about how much grinding of Exploration Zones and Patrols they had to do compared to now? No. Most didn't care. And they're not going to care if Fleetbases get changed a year from now either - especially since most people will have stopped solely focusing on Fleetbases long before that. The only reason it's a big deal now is because of power-gamers trying to get done quickly to prove how cool they are. I'd bet the vast majority of Fleets in the game aren't even to T1 yet, let alone past 2 and on their way to 3.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
As I stated before I am all for Cryptic?pwe making money - the Dev`s need to be paid servers need to run - PWE needs to make a profit- etc etc
This doff issue is more of an annoyance issue - especially to the smaller fleets and cryptic needs to remove as many annoyance issues as possibe - especially when the dilth requirements are Astronomical
I just found out that it will require over 1.5 million dilth just for the three Tier 3 projects plus the tier 3 upgrade itself make it even more than 1.5 with the Transwarp gate
At this point I see T3 as the end of the line for any fleet under 10 active(and I don`t know what % of fleets of the 10k fleets Crptic claims have less than 10 people active)
You know these "annoyance" issues are how cryptic makes money right? No Silver player needs more bank space. Its just annoying to have so little space. So it pushes you to buy more inventory slots. Find the lack of Doffs annoying? Buy packs fromt the Cstore. Need Delithium? But some with Zen. Fleet marks, XP, CXP, pretty much any type of "grind" in the game can be made easier with stuff from the Cstore.
The only grind you can't really avoid getting the STF gear. Even if you buy everything from the Cstore and try to "pay to win" you're still a slave to the random drops. And I think that's plenty fair.
Anyone who played Tribble through Tier III knows that Fleet Starbases turned all of us into defense contractors. We are all collectively overpaying for some capability that is slightly better than what we have, or we are profiting mightily off others who do.
Most of the issues I had with the Starbase system on Tribble were resolved, like quantity and access to rewards.
My only lingering complaint is that some items necessary for the Starbase that are super expensive in game return tiny amounts of fleet credit.
Romulan Ale, for example, sells for 70K on the exchange and is very hard to obtain in game, but only returns TWO fleet marks when given to the Starbase. That means to purchase just the alcohol in game to fill the bartender job, you will spend over 57,500,000 energy credits on the exchange for a total of 1000 Fleet credits.
I also have a huge problem with the Fleet DOFF vendor. If I buy a random common, I'd like it to be a truely random common. I have bought over 800 DOFFs and -zero- have been sensor officers. somewhere in the area of 10 have been security officers.
Doesn't seem terribly random when two of the DOFF types needed for projects never actually seem to drop. You'd think that out of 800, maybe one or two would be sensor officers.
And don't talk about sample size. The total pool of available doffs isn't that large, comparitively speaking. If the Fleet DOFF vendor was truely dropping random DOFFs, the vast majority in every single pull of 50 Doffs unwrapped, 60% wouldn't always be Ground/Space warfare specialists.
All I have is what someone posted about Sci - but as far as Dilth is concerned it would be the same for all 3 and the upgrade is double what 1 sub category project is
Doffs are FREE (opportunity cost is a broken concept discredited in the early 22nd century)
Dilith is Free as well if you work for it
everything is Free if you work for it
its free in terms of you dont have to pay money for it but actually, its not free. everything you work for is not free. free is, when i get something without giving/doing something.
Comments
dil i can make daily 8k i dont play alt,.... EC i can make daily how much i will so.:D
and ec or dil never seen a projekt in starbase what need EC so EC or not EC....;)
I'm not sure you understood what I was aiming at here... fleet credits are relatively expendable for small fleets - precisely the fleets that will have the most issues getting stuff. As a result, spending credits to get credits is a winning strategy despite the fact that you (the donator) lose some credits. You retain more valuable resources such as EC, dilithium, and other things, at the cheap (depending on fleet size, maybe not so cheap) price of a few thousand credits.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
it translates to real money when people start buying cstore items to sell on the exchange to get credits to pay for their fleet projects. quite a few people do
no, it was a lie because you implied you did it on 1 character
it does when people are selling things they bought on the cstore for EC. the cap has nothing to do with it
this. and remember, random numbers generated by a computer aren't random
somehow I doubt that
except that you have no idea what you are talking about. you're making things up based on ideas you came up with rather than actual data
Are you saying the 1000 doffs I purchased and recorded what category they fell under does not qualify as data? It is somehow made up info based on a theory? I may not know exactly what the "random" algorithoms used by Cryptic are - which as you say are not random - but i can get a general idea as to what I am going to get based on my "data"
I think your comment is baseless.
Lol I was thinking that too
Well there is that too ;-) I just felt I would be getting a bit far into computer geekdom if I started on the 'no such thing as random' explanation ;-) Took me a few classes to get my brain around that one I assure you - but true!
Thanks
12345
A little OT but does the purple mean the community mod?
That is a fairly strong accusation. Even if you think the OP made this up, there are experiments done by others showing the same thing. For example, here is another thread conducting a different experiment which shows similar results:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=348001
Join Date: Sept 2008
"Holographic tissue paper for the holographic runny nose. Don't give them to patients." - The Doctor
Well spun... however would it be reasonable to assume that the expectation is an equal chance rather than weighted?
Captain Ariel Trueheart Department of Temporal Investigations
U.S.S. Valkyrie - NCC 991701
=/\= ================================= =/\=
There was a thread I started before this that went through my experiemnt 100 doffs at a time and posted each lot after it was done.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=356101
Still the idea that I would make it up is silly - when others had already made the same observastions but on a smalle scale. I am starting the Tier 2 upgrade now and need 180 doffs for it so i got another 200 and the results were the same.
Now Cryptic has indicated that it would be random - now I am not a computer person and you could make all kinds of wordy excuses to cover up what they are doing: providing lots of 1 sub component doff (ie tac lots sec few - Med lots - sci few)
But this is what I consider when someone like Brandon says that the doff you get is "random" - you have a bucket full of the 40+ different doff specialties - you reach in and pull one out - that is what you get - that is random - then you put that doff back in the bucket - next time you reach in you could get the exact same specialty of doff -that is random.
Maybe I am just stupid but that is my idea of random.
I agree...I have not done any statistical analysis, but I do see some obvious trends from the doff atm on the Starbase:
* bunches and bunches of Warfare Specialists
* many Flight Deck Officers
* many Science Officers
* zero Sensor Officers
I have gotten two Sensor Officers from doing many SFA Recruit Missions.
Thx
Delirium Tremens
Tier 4 Starbase, Tier 3 Embassy
http://dtfleet.com/
While this is a hobby to us it is a business to them and Cryptic's primary job is to make money for its investors - which include me.
As I stated before I am all for Cryptic?pwe making money - the Dev`s need to be paid servers need to run - PWE needs to make a profit- etc etc
This doff issue is more of an annoyance issue - especially to the smaller fleets and cryptic needs to remove as many annoyance issues as possibe - especially when the dilth requirements are Astronomical
I just found out that it will require over 1.5 million dilth just for the three Tier 3 projects plus the tier 3 upgrade itself make it even more than 1.5 with the Transwarp gate
At this point I see T3 as the end of the line for any fleet under 10 active(and I don`t know what % of fleets of the 10k fleets Crptic claims have less than 10 people active)
But at the same time who knows what the requirements will be next year? They might be cut in half, or you might get tons more FMs and drops by then. Look at how much leveling speed has changed in this game. Things change.
That would be a guareeteed way to TRIBBLE off half the people in the game.
Somehow I think people will put more attachment to the time and resources they invest in getting a Starbase then a set of old`gear
You know these "annoyance" issues are how cryptic makes money right? No Silver player needs more bank space. Its just annoying to have so little space. So it pushes you to buy more inventory slots. Find the lack of Doffs annoying? Buy packs fromt the Cstore. Need Delithium? But some with Zen. Fleet marks, XP, CXP, pretty much any type of "grind" in the game can be made easier with stuff from the Cstore.
The only grind you can't really avoid getting the STF gear. Even if you buy everything from the Cstore and try to "pay to win" you're still a slave to the random drops. And I think that's plenty fair.
Most of the issues I had with the Starbase system on Tribble were resolved, like quantity and access to rewards.
My only lingering complaint is that some items necessary for the Starbase that are super expensive in game return tiny amounts of fleet credit.
Romulan Ale, for example, sells for 70K on the exchange and is very hard to obtain in game, but only returns TWO fleet marks when given to the Starbase. That means to purchase just the alcohol in game to fill the bartender job, you will spend over 57,500,000 energy credits on the exchange for a total of 1000 Fleet credits.
That is stupid.
Rules of Acquisition at Priority One
Doesn't seem terribly random when two of the DOFF types needed for projects never actually seem to drop. You'd think that out of 800, maybe one or two would be sensor officers.
And don't talk about sample size. The total pool of available doffs isn't that large, comparitively speaking. If the Fleet DOFF vendor was truely dropping random DOFFs, the vast majority in every single pull of 50 Doffs unwrapped, 60% wouldn't always be Ground/Space warfare specialists.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
5400 DOFFs, crazy amount of dilithium, arm, leg, first born child, co-signer, 3,000 to 6,000 consumables, 7 day timer.
(some of that is actually true
All I have is what someone posted about Sci - but as far as Dilth is concerned it would be the same for all 3 and the upgrade is double what 1 sub category project is
Get your greens ready
Probably blues for T4 and Purple for T5
its free in terms of you dont have to pay money for it but actually, its not free. everything you work for is not free. free is, when i get something without giving/doing something.