Create MACO ranks where you earn a small amount of experience every time your group completes the optional in an STF, and require people to be a minimum rank to run elites.
I know it wouldn't guarantee that everyone running elites necessarily knows what they are doing, but it would make it MUCH more difficult for clueless noobs to get into elites. At the least, there wouldn't be as many problems as there are now.
And we could all get extra titles by climbing up the MACO ranks.
Also, I don't know if they have the option to run private STF's, but they should if they don't. That way you can play with just your friends if you want to.
The main problem is people who "think" they know best, sit silently and then just abuse everyone for not doing it their way.
1. There is more than one way to do each elite STF
2. Normal STF's (space certainly) are not teaching people to do the Elites - you can pretty much blast your way through a normal, and too many people do.
3. Few people want to take responsibility for advice (not abuse)
4. I have an 8/10 success rate on Elite PUGs - so those who complain they NEVER succeed should look to their own game play
There are several good points with this threads posts.
The one I see that is missing is that Elite STF's is not only demanding on actually knowing what to do. They also require fairly good gear.
Indeed, Cryptic can not force people to learn the strategy of the STF's and even if they could, there is this little detail that most of these STF's can actually be won with more then one strategies. Therefor, learning one strategy, would not guarantee success in a team using another.
What CAN be done however, is making the Que system recognise if you are adequately equipped at least.
The reason for doing Normal STF's is to get a feel for the Borg war and to get your Mk X set.
This MK X set is what I would like to see be the absolute minimum requirement for even que up to an Elite STF. It's not difficult at all to implement such a simple check. I've played MMO games that do have these kind of simple checkups implemented already. Some games use a "flag" system, wich is a bit like accolades, you gotta do one thing before you can continue to the next. This is of course a bad idea for people who are starting new characters and already know the drill.
But an equipment quality control would at least see to it that the rookie/noob has proper armor and firepower. If we then have to explain to him what to do and what to shoot at, well that's probably to be expected in any PuG because asa yet another post said earlier, the strategy for Normal STF's do not always apply for the Elites. You may know how to win Normals in your sleep and with one hand tied behind your back. That aint going to do squiddelypop for your first tray in an Elite since tehy must be played differently.
But if you at least have the minimum required gear when doing your first couple of Elite runs, your chances of performing OK (as long as you follow orders from the experienced players) will increase significanltly. Your risk at being hate-flamed for not having a clue you need to fix your characters or starships injuries and carry enough components for doing so, will also decrease - if the Que system didn't even let you in an STF Elite until you have said equipment.
if TUVOK and WORF could rig a weapon to do this properly qualified officers decades later can do it in their sleep.
Actually its high time there were some PROJECTILE weapons available
the remodulation is in place for gameplay issues...to make the borg more difficult and or require certain gear to defeat.
thats the reason for remodulation in this game...to make it more difficult.
there is a automatic remodulation on the STF sets...so that is not a real problem either.
and the projectile weapons in first contact is actually my favourite misconception of all in star trek.
first the projectile fired on the holodeck is not a real projectile...it's photons held together by forcefields...so basically an energy weapon and the borg need to adapt to it anyway.
second: the very idea to have personal shields is to protect somebody from projectiles...be it in space or ground.
take for instance the navigational deflector on a ship in the star trek universe. It is a low power energy shield that protects the ship from space debree when traveling at high velocities.
Now the borg personal shield has the same function, if it can protect the borg from energy weapon fire it sure as hell can protect it from fast moving projectiles.
third: do borg need to fear projectiles? well no, they have metal (duranium) armor, no bullet can penetrate...and even if it penetrates how vital are "vital organs" to a cyborg?
even most part of the skull is made or covered with metal...
so, the scene in the movie was a ridiculous scene and so was the scene where data gets shot with the assault rifle, but it's still one of my favourite Star trek movies anyway. But to draw conclusion from it, without checking the established canon...or to activate ones brain and think for 5 sec if it's possible what i see, is kind of naive.
Those scenes were only there because they sounded real good in the script...and frankly they are great...but absolutely lack any consistancy with canon.
PS: even melee weapons shouldn't be able to harm a borg...if we stay strictly with TNG canon, because in one scene where the enterprise D encounters the borg the first time, a borg drone beams to engineering and analizes the consoles...when attacked with a phaser a forcefield blocks the beam...then worf (i think) trys to pull him away from the console but is repelled by the personal forcefield.
So did the borg get weaker shields in first contact...were they more advanced before first contact?
the remodulation is in place for gameplay issues...to make the borg more difficult and or require certain gear to defeat.
thats the reason for remodulation in this game...to make it more difficult.
there is a automatic remodulation on the STF sets...so that is not a real problem either.
nah its to make a LAME enemy even more lame
the Borg should be a LT comm level enemy at best
and the projectile weapons in first contact is actually my favourite misconception of all in star trek
.
EH??
there aren't any misconceptions
first the projectile fired on the holodeck is not a real projectile...it's photons held together by forcefields...so basically an energy weapon and the borg need to adapt to it anyway.
actually its a very strong presser beam
and the borg can't adapt to something they can't detect
second: the very idea to have personal shields is to protect somebody from projectiles...be it in space or ground.
slightly wrong you are confusing startrek and DUNE
take for instance the navigational deflector on a ship in the star trek universe. It is a low power energy shield that protects the ship from space debree when traveling at high velocities.
specifically DUST
Now the borg personal shield has the same function, if it can protect the borg from energy weapon fire it sure as hell can protect it from fast moving projectiles.
no actually it can't
a borg shield is an "energy disipator" NOT a deflector
third: do borg need to fear projectiles? well no, they have metal (duranium) armor, no bullet can penetrate...and even if it penetrates how vital are "vital organs" to a cyborg?
even most part of the skull is made or covered with metal...
no they don't
they are flesh , plastic , pvc and rubber
bullets , arrows even FISTS kill borg
so, the scene in the movie was a ridiculous scene and so was the scene where data gets shot with the assault rifle, but it's still one of my favourite Star trek movies anyway. But to draw conclusion from it, without checking the established canon...or to activate ones brain and think for 5 sec if it's possible what i see, is kind of naive.
Those scenes were only there because they sounded real good in the script...and frankly they are great...but absolutely lack any consistancy with canon.
yes data should have disfunctioned at that point
infact he should have been ripped apart at that range
Data is PLASTIC in places
PS: even melee weapons shouldn't be able to harm a borg...if we stay strictly with TNG canon, because in one scene where the enterprise D encounters the borg the first time, a borg drone beams to engineering and analizes the consoles...when attacked with a phaser a forcefield blocks the beam...then worf (i think) trys to pull him away from the console but is repelled by the personal forcefield.
borg DIE if hit but real objects
canon items for killing them include rifle butts , fists , feet , a fire suppression device , an axe , a wall , and in one case I believe a piece of ordinary GLASS
So did the borg get weaker shields in first contact...were they more advanced before first contact?
A borgs disiparot shield is reliant on broadcast power from the collective (as number drops so does shield power) and is useless against ANY physical object
in hand to hand a borg dies easily
slightly wrong you are confusing startrek and DUNE
cool that you bring that up...because the visual effect is exactly the same. i mean it was around the same time.
when i saw the episode the first time i didn't realise it...it was beginning of the 90's, but years later i saw it again, and i was like: "WTF, are the borg from house atredis? i mean picard certainly is! " and yeah there are certain similarities to the harkoonen actually, but never mind.
Anyway a borg dies from a PUNCH on at least one occasion
they are sissy enemies who break easily
they have EXTREMELY limited metal parts (see remains after plasma surge in film)
they are mostly plastic , rubber and pvc
and are badly designed
if you want to remove the weak parts of humans and replace them with metal you lose the TRIBBLE and put in a solid metal chest plate
we still need projectile weapons because I want a tommygun.. it's been in almost ever series at least once... and also a shotgun... to shoot those damn Vulcans with when they land so we can steal their stuff
I PUG everyday, on 4 toons (their whole Dil cap worth) I get 90% success rate on mission, about 60%+ on optionals, I see all classes of players, I simply have adapted some estrategies to deal with noobs in Elites, still those who are "experienced" dealing orders/instructions mess up 50% of the time, since they are supervising everyone+typing+doing their part.
I like the system as it is. The problem is people joining with zero knowledge, gear is secondary problem, I have actually seen people with tremendous DPS go and ruin the elite doing normal STF estrategies (ignoring cubes, killing generators in the other side of the team's location). I am in a big fleet (420+) and it's very rare when i STF with them cause with 4 toons I don't have much "waiting" time. This might change when I care about doing Ground missions but there are a bunch of info in the web to learn the basics, yet people need to read them :rolleyes:.
btw i feel sad for those who have done 100+ elites and haven't got their Protos, that is something Cryptic should tweak up.
if u are doing is propely u dont need people to defend kang they should never make it to kang in the first place.
maybe u shouldnt bash so much when u dont exactly have the best stragy either
Why do people on this forum not read comments in there full and just take parts out to have ago which in doing so changes the original meaning.
I said CERTAIN STRATS mate and this is a pug where talking about not a pre defined mission discussed and planned.
Oh and yes I do have a Strat for not defending the kang that works 99% of the time but again its one that you need to inform all players of what to do and ask who wants what role not something you can do in a pug especially seeings some pugs have all 1 class, I was in an unfortunate elite pug and we where all Sci support lol so you can imagine the kind of dps we where doing...or not doing lol.
Elite STFs are a huge problem, we were discussing this in fleet as we have a few members that are the idiots who ruin the game and something needs to be done about it.
We were thinking an unlocking accolade, a combination of unlocking space elites when you hit all the optional goals and a certain number of missions played; 10 plays each will get you a basic maco shield and 3 pc borg set with some weapons. The optional goals for cure and infected on normal are dead simple, even KA is easy enough but with a PUG you'll need some luck or to know what you are doing. Most of the bad players avoid KA totally.
Unlocking ground elites needs to be separate than space, we all know how absolutely terrible people are in space and on the ground they somehow make their space performance seem capable. The ground optional goals are far more difficult than the space, if you are the idiot running around TRIBBLE with terminals in KA then you lost the optional for your team. Infected is pretty much unpugable, everyone needs to know where not to run, and more than one mess up on a cure turret and its over, a single slip on the towers and its done as well.
I think the equipment check is somewhat valid, but probably too complex. Who is to say what equipment is right and wrong? Our fleet is full of cruisers with Maco XII shields who pop in 2-3 shots on elite, not sure how that can help. You must have repair materials to play elite, sure, but do I need a Maco or Omega set? I don't want that so why should I have to have it?
Removing the public queue for elites might be a blessing and a curse. The eliteSTF channel has virtually no screening process and flocks of ignorant will want to start to find a way to play elites. Right now a choice is made when you see how awful PUGers are and need to find a way out, we find the channel, but when the awful start to find a way to play? What happens then?
I think a skill check needs to be in place, the space optionals are a bit too easy to walk into and gett when you aren't doing anything for the group though.
Elite STFs are a huge problem, we were discussing this in fleet as we have a few members that are the idiots who ruin the game and something needs to be done about it.
.
that sounds funny and why you not help your members what is your job, to cry about any not known never seen player is one think but in there own fleet?
if anyone ask me somethink in fleet he get a 100% guild from me for free, my fleet is epic so sorry for yours.:D
This thread was a duplicate and both were in the wrong forum.
The threads have been merged and moved to the appropriate location.
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that sounds funny and why you not help your members what is your job, to cry about any not known never seen player is one think but in there own fleet?
if anyone ask me somethink in fleet he get a 100% guild from me for free, my fleet is epic so sorry for yours.:D
I'm sorry, but I can't really understand much of your post. I know people get pissed off when a "grammar TRIBBLE" shows up but I think it's fair when a post--meant as a rebuttal to another post--is difficult to actually understand.
However, I think an important point to consider is that some players, in a fleet or not, don't care about strategy or teamwork and do not respond to in-game team chat. From what I've seen, that can be a bigger problem than lack of dps or a lack of understanding about the STF. One player without much DPS can't do much harm unless they are guarding, but one player who doesn't listen to their teammates and doesn't understand the game can ruin an STF singlehandedly in cure.
Anyhow, I agree with the OP's initial premise. Also, while I believe that Cure Space Elite has a couple of valid ways to be completed (rmmrl vs. clear all nanites first; 1 player kills all the bops vs. 2 players defending, though 1 is obviously more efficient if you have a pro player), there are definitely some "wrong" ways to do it (guard sitting on top of kang instead of intercepting bops, blowing a cube as soon as possible, blowing the middle cube first under any circumstances). Now, I haven't had nearly as bad luck with PuGs as the OP, though I have had plenty of bad games, and I wonder if there is anything on his side that he could do to alleviate this. Perhaps continuing to hone his own strategy and dps down to a point, in order to compensate for the other players' lack of it, and trying as much as possible to communicate tactics throughout the game and being prepared to swap plans if necessary due to other players' failure to respond. It stinks but for now...that's all you can do.
Or, if, like me, the OP tends to prefer PuGs to sitting around for 15 minutes just to get a private match set up, he could cut down on the pain by bringing ONE buddy along. I run STF's with my brother pretty often and together we often do 60-80% of the total damage. We practically never lose a game, though we can't always save the optional--but we get it most times.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Former/Cryptic Name: Captain_Hans_Langsdorff
Founding member, Special Service Squadron
"Fear God and Dread Nought." First Sea Lord, Adm. Jacky Fisher
Elite STFs are a huge problem, we were discussing this in fleet as we have a few members that are the idiots who ruin the game and something needs to be done about it.
If you have people in your fleet who cannot do STFs, you should teach them how to do it. This means that you explain what happens, when it happens, and why it happens. You may need to explain as you're going which means failing an optional or two on time. But if your fleet's raid-leader(s) are up to scratch that's something they should accept as part of the teaching proccess.
If you have people in your fleet who are either immune to learning or are intentionally wrecking the STFs, you need to re-examine your recruitment process.
As for the rest of your post, I still don't see how gating Elites will work.
You do whatever number of Normals which are (comparatively) TRIBBLE simple in order to get Accolade X, or piece of equipment Y, and then you'll still do into Elites which are at least twice as hard and wipe as soon as a Heavy Tactical Drone looks at you cross-eyed. You'll know the maps better and that's about the limit. Having to do x number of Normal STFs is not a test of skill, it is a test of patience and progression, and whilst equipment helps, it doesn't make a bad player good. Or even make a bad player alright.
The STFs' problem is they're standalone. There is not comparable content in terms of difficulty and required co-ordination anywhere in the game apart from No Win Scenario, which is hardly a teaching tool.
The game needs multiplayer content of gradually increasing difficulty with complicated objectives that require team co-operation, as you level up to get players accustomed to playing in such an environment rather than saying "here you go, play STFs now!" when they hit level 45, and then offering them Elites at level 50 which are about twice as hard (and spoiler: They're still actually easy once you get used to them). Starbase Blockade and Incursion are a start, but they're really not the same animal as an STF.
However, I think an important point to consider is that some players, in a fleet or not, don't care about strategy or teamwork and do not respond to in-game team chat. From what I've seen, that can be a bigger problem than lack of dps or a lack of understanding about the STF. One player without much DPS can't do much harm unless they are guarding, but one player who doesn't listen to their teammates and doesn't understand the game can ruin an STF singlehandedly in cure.
If I had someone in my fleet consistently not responding to team-chat and not making any effort whatsoever to be a team player (ie. not a single mistake or single isntance of ignoring/missing chat, I mean doing it the whole time), I'd kick them out.
Do people not manage their fleets in this game or something?
However, I think an important point to consider is that some players, in a fleet or not, don't care about strategy or teamwork and do not respond to in-game team chat.
if your fleet is full with newbies"you includet?" and you not able to teach them, mister imba dps 80% dps from a 5 man group.:D
I am shocked nobody in 8 pages has really addressed the problem...
BOTS... the reason the guys were probably sitting at the Kang is because of In Game, Macro Bots, only there to collect marks, and dilithium, I am seeing this more and more. I hope STO figures a way to get rid of them....
One idea that is foolproof (if implemented PERFECTLY)- make it so that people on your ignore list can't be pugged up with you. This requires little explanation as to how it works. Greifer? Ignore. Never have to deal with them again. Eliteist? Same thing. Guy with chat closed and thumbs up his ()? Same. Totally foolproof, and can't be abused.
When in doubt, (hehe) c4!
This sig dedicated to the many random objects the Mythbusters crew has blow to smitherines
leave them the way they are, if you expect perfection from 4 strangers you're an idiot plain and simple. if you continue to pug expecting perfect runs out 4 randoms that's you're problem, not the games. devs don't need to fix something that isn't broken because some people don't have any common sense.
they have enough legit things they need to do besides alter a system that works perfectly fine.
further, i have alts, and tend to make more, all your 'testing' scheme will do is delay me getting into stf's that i already know how to do. not only me i suspect that makes alts. delaying everyone who knows what to do and how to gear because some of you can't make use of the other options.
gear check? pffft, you don't need uber gear...so who decides? is it a mark cutoff? someone could come in with rainbow mkxi...completely wrong loadout in all console/boff slots...but all mkxi so that's a fail.
accolade check? you're joking right? have one character sitting at 49 with a grand total of...1650 accolade points. one more run through mirror event they'll be 50...so umm yeah, accolade points reeeaally matter >.>
# of runs through normals? they're nothing like elite so also pointless.
the only criteria to bar someone from elite...and it should be any mission is critical injuries. either ship or captain they should be locked out of any missions until they heal themselves. if captain, locked out of ground missions, if ship locked out of space missions. something that should have been implemented anyway imo. with a warning on every map transition that they are critically injured.
you can't test for ability to run an elite from current in game parameters. just like you can't test people who can't seem to get the idea they don't have to pug as this and other threads obviously shows.
there are other options, make use of them, otherwise it's your choice to pug, accept the consequences. wonder how many of you call yourself 'gamers' lol
Dr. Patricia Tanis ~ "Bacon is for sycophants and products of incest."
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
leave them the way they are, if you expect perfection from 4 strangers you're an idiot plain and simple. if you continue to pug expecting perfect runs out 4 randoms that's you're problem, not the games. devs don't need to fix something that isn't broken because some people don't have any common sense.
they have enough legit things they need to do besides alter a system that works perfectly fine.
further, i have alts, and tend to make more, all your 'testing' scheme will do is delay me getting into stf's that i already know how to do. not only me i suspect that makes alts. delaying everyone who knows what to do and how to gear because some of you can't make use of the other options.
gear check? pffft, you don't need uber gear...so who decides? is it a mark cutoff? someone could come in with rainbow mkxi...completely wrong loadout in all console/boff slots...but all mkxi so that's a fail.
accolade check? you're joking right? have one character sitting at 49 with a grand total of...1650 accolade points. one more run through mirror event they'll be 50...so umm yeah, accolade points reeeaally matter >.>
# of runs through normals? they're nothing like elite so also pointless.
the only criteria to bar someone from elite...and it should be any mission is critical injuries. either ship or captain they should be locked out of any missions until they heal themselves. if captain, locked out of ground missions, if ship locked out of space missions. something that should have been implemented anyway imo. with a warning on every map transition that they are critically injured.
you can't test for ability to run an elite from current in game parameters. just like you can't test people who can't seem to get the idea they don't have to pug as this and other threads obviously shows.
there are other options, make use of them, otherwise it's your choice to pug, accept the consequences. wonder how many of you call yourself 'gamers' lol
First of all, my system would work, and would not affeect any of your alts. Half your post is adressed there. As for what I expect from a pug I expect... gear >mkVI common, open chat windows, ra or better ships, people who are willing to listen, and a general competantcy whichh one would expect from a first grader. Too much for me to ask? Dam, that would be a depressing thought...
When in doubt, (hehe) c4!
This sig dedicated to the many random objects the Mythbusters crew has blow to smitherines
First of all, my system would work, and would not affeect any of your alts. Half your post is adressed there. As for what I expect from a pug I expect... gear >mkVI common, open chat windows, ra or better ships, people who are willing to listen, and a general competantcy whichh one would expect from a first grader. Too much for me to ask? Dam, that would be a depressing thought...
the no group with those on your ignore list? that's not a test. well, except your own personal test.
expecting anything from a pug, including gear is stupid...except infected space. would you expect 4 random strangers to be able to fix your car? your PC? your house? let me guess, you just grab random people off the street when you want something done and expect them to be able to do it?
you're expecting things in a game you couldn't get in real life...4 randoms who can do everything YOU expect them to do for you.
simply put, your expectations aren't based on reality...even game reality. yea, you can get a pug that runs flawlessly...but you can also get one that goes fubar in the first minute. welcome to the analogy of the real world...strangers don't always do what you expect or want them to :O
protip? don't pug
Dr. Patricia Tanis ~ "Bacon is for sycophants and products of incest."
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
first the projectile fired on the holodeck is not a real projectile...it's photons held together by forcefields...so basically an energy weapon and the borg need to adapt to it anyway.
so then explain a replicator please. in the moment, the security protocols were overridden, the holodeck "replicated" the bullets. also, energy dmg is different than kinetic dmg. we already know today. how? there are suits that can withstand a few thousand volts but they cannot keep you save from bullets. of course, there is armor for that too but this is star trek
the no group with those on your ignore list? that's not a test. well, except your own personal test.
expecting anything from a pug, including gear is stupid...except infected space. would you expect 4 random strangers to be able to fix your car? your PC? your house? let me guess, you just grab random people off the street when you want something done and expect them to be able to do it?
you're expecting things in a game you couldn't get in real life...4 randoms who can do everything YOU expect them to do for you.
simply put, your expectations aren't based on reality...even game reality. yea, you can get a pug that runs flawlessly...but you can also get one that goes fubar in the first minute. welcome to the analogy of the real world...strangers don't always do what you expect or want them to :O
protip? don't pug
expect people to be able to repair my computer? no. expect people to be able to drive their own cars? absolutly. all i expect is a mild level of competentcy, and the standard gear the ship is equipped with. oh, and i expect chat open. if you think thats too much to ask from the average person, then either were in a really sad state as gamers, or you need to see a psychiatrist.
When in doubt, (hehe) c4!
This sig dedicated to the many random objects the Mythbusters crew has blow to smitherines
expect people to be able to repair my computer? no. expect people to be able to drive their own cars? absolutly. all i expect is a mild level of competentcy, and the standard gear the ship is equipped with. oh, and i expect chat open. if you think thats too much to ask from the average person, then either were in a really sad state as gamers, or you need to see a psychiatrist.
i didn't say drive i said repair, and i didn't say their own car i said yours. not a matter of mental instability either, it's reality. your expectations are too high and unrealistic. and kindly don't call yourself a gamer...that's an embarrassment to real gamers. gamers expect only what they can deliver, nothing more, nothing less. realize that relying on randoms is just that, random, no expectations from people you don't know.
the only people you can count on usually is a static group or players you know...everyone else can do whatever they want and do. the only person that may need to have their assessment of reality modified is you. to expect as if it's a given that people will act as you want them too is...naive. to say the least. megalomania to say the worst.
it's a game, and one people will play how they want regardless of your expectations. if they want to run an stf just to TRIBBLE it up for everyone because that's how they get their jollies they will. what's fun for you doesn't apply to everyone. either accept that the world doesn't work the way you want or expect it to or become a hermit...because it's not going to change.
Dr. Patricia Tanis ~ "Bacon is for sycophants and products of incest."
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
i didn't say drive i said repair, and i didn't say their own car i said yours. not a matter of mental instability either, it's reality. your expectations are too high and unrealistic. and kindly don't call yourself a gamer...that's an embarrassment to real gamers. gamers expect only what they can deliver, nothing more, nothing less. realize that relying on randoms is just that, random, no expectations from people you don't know.
the only people you can count on usually is a static group or players you know...everyone else can do whatever they want and do. the only person that may need to have their assessment of reality modified is you. to expect as if it's a given that people will act as you want them too is...naive. to say the least. megalomania to say the worst.
it's a game, and one people will play how they want regardless of your expectations. if they want to run an stf just to TRIBBLE it up for everyone because that's how they get their jollies they will. what's fun for you doesn't apply to everyone. either accept that the world doesn't work the way you want or expect it to or become a hermit...because it's not going to change.
i almost thought you were a troll when i read your last sentance...
is expecting first grade level competentcy unrealistic? no. granted, not expecting trolls may be a bit much, but having chat open is not.
When in doubt, (hehe) c4!
This sig dedicated to the many random objects the Mythbusters crew has blow to smitherines
i almost thought you were a troll when i read your last sentance...
is expecting first grade level competentcy unrealistic? no. granted, not expecting trolls may be a bit much, but having chat open is not.
troll because of the last sentence? trying to be nice...but you just don't get it. people in the game as people in RL aren't going to do anything you expect them to. why should they? they have their own ideas, they're not robots nor clones of you. you expecting anything from 4 strangers is unrealistic.
if the real world doesn't work that way...why would a game? you don't even get that first, second, third or whatever grade competency does not matter...they'll act how they want. in fact some, if they know it bugs you or others will do so intentionally. it isn't age, it isn't schooling...it's individual personalities.
chat open? perhaps many of them do...and just choose not to respond...ever think of that? that they're sitting there laughing at all the people yelling at them?
Dr. Patricia Tanis ~ "Bacon is for sycophants and products of incest."
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
troll because of the last sentence? trying to be nice...but you just don't get it. people in the game as people in RL aren't going to do anything you expect them to. why should they? they have their own ideas, they're not robots nor clones of you. you expecting anything from 4 strangers is unrealistic.
if the real world doesn't work that way...why would a game? you don't even get that first, second, third or whatever grade competency does not matter...they'll act how they want. in fact some, if they know it bugs you or others will do so intentionally. it isn't age, it isn't schooling...it's individual personalities.
chat open? perhaps many of them do...and just choose not to respond...ever think of that? that they're sitting there laughing at all the people yelling at them?
I'm not expecting nor demanding anything. If someone is smart enough to earn the money to buy a computer, then an internet service, then figure out how to download and install sto, then figure out how to play the game, then beat the game, it isn't unrealistic to assume that same person can fly a ship. You made it to l50, so you should have figured out how to control a ship, read the little instruction box that says IN BIG BOLD LETTERS shoot this than this. Also, people ought to have figured out that 'elite' = greater challenge. I don't care what happens on normal, but damn, someone who plays an mmo better sure as hell know how to read. My system is supposed to let those people who take fun in trolling, those who are clueless, and those who greif keep playing their way, and me play mine, but it will suceed where cryptic's system failed- that is, in dividing people up so everyone can play the way they want. And I said ALMOST- I've decided you aren't a troll
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I know it wouldn't guarantee that everyone running elites necessarily knows what they are doing, but it would make it MUCH more difficult for clueless noobs to get into elites. At the least, there wouldn't be as many problems as there are now.
And we could all get extra titles by climbing up the MACO ranks.
Also, I don't know if they have the option to run private STF's, but they should if they don't. That way you can play with just your friends if you want to.
The main problem is people who "think" they know best, sit silently and then just abuse everyone for not doing it their way.
1. There is more than one way to do each elite STF
2. Normal STF's (space certainly) are not teaching people to do the Elites - you can pretty much blast your way through a normal, and too many people do.
3. Few people want to take responsibility for advice (not abuse)
4. I have an 8/10 success rate on Elite PUGs - so those who complain they NEVER succeed should look to their own game play
There are several good points with this threads posts.
The one I see that is missing is that Elite STF's is not only demanding on actually knowing what to do. They also require fairly good gear.
Indeed, Cryptic can not force people to learn the strategy of the STF's and even if they could, there is this little detail that most of these STF's can actually be won with more then one strategies. Therefor, learning one strategy, would not guarantee success in a team using another.
What CAN be done however, is making the Que system recognise if you are adequately equipped at least.
The reason for doing Normal STF's is to get a feel for the Borg war and to get your Mk X set.
This MK X set is what I would like to see be the absolute minimum requirement for even que up to an Elite STF. It's not difficult at all to implement such a simple check. I've played MMO games that do have these kind of simple checkups implemented already. Some games use a "flag" system, wich is a bit like accolades, you gotta do one thing before you can continue to the next. This is of course a bad idea for people who are starting new characters and already know the drill.
But an equipment quality control would at least see to it that the rookie/noob has proper armor and firepower. If we then have to explain to him what to do and what to shoot at, well that's probably to be expected in any PuG because asa yet another post said earlier, the strategy for Normal STF's do not always apply for the Elites. You may know how to win Normals in your sleep and with one hand tied behind your back. That aint going to do squiddelypop for your first tray in an Elite since tehy must be played differently.
But if you at least have the minimum required gear when doing your first couple of Elite runs, your chances of performing OK (as long as you follow orders from the experienced players) will increase significanltly. Your risk at being hate-flamed for not having a clue you need to fix your characters or starships injuries and carry enough components for doing so, will also decrease - if the Que system didn't even let you in an STF Elite until you have said equipment.
and there is no reason why they shouldn't
if TUVOK and WORF could rig a weapon to do this properly qualified officers decades later can do it in their sleep.
Actually its high time there were some PROJECTILE weapons available
the remodulation is in place for gameplay issues...to make the borg more difficult and or require certain gear to defeat.
thats the reason for remodulation in this game...to make it more difficult.
there is a automatic remodulation on the STF sets...so that is not a real problem either.
and the projectile weapons in first contact is actually my favourite misconception of all in star trek.
first the projectile fired on the holodeck is not a real projectile...it's photons held together by forcefields...so basically an energy weapon and the borg need to adapt to it anyway.
second: the very idea to have personal shields is to protect somebody from projectiles...be it in space or ground.
take for instance the navigational deflector on a ship in the star trek universe. It is a low power energy shield that protects the ship from space debree when traveling at high velocities.
Now the borg personal shield has the same function, if it can protect the borg from energy weapon fire it sure as hell can protect it from fast moving projectiles.
third: do borg need to fear projectiles? well no, they have metal (duranium) armor, no bullet can penetrate...and even if it penetrates how vital are "vital organs" to a cyborg?
even most part of the skull is made or covered with metal...
so, the scene in the movie was a ridiculous scene and so was the scene where data gets shot with the assault rifle, but it's still one of my favourite Star trek movies anyway. But to draw conclusion from it, without checking the established canon...or to activate ones brain and think for 5 sec if it's possible what i see, is kind of naive.
Those scenes were only there because they sounded real good in the script...and frankly they are great...but absolutely lack any consistancy with canon.
PS: even melee weapons shouldn't be able to harm a borg...if we stay strictly with TNG canon, because in one scene where the enterprise D encounters the borg the first time, a borg drone beams to engineering and analizes the consoles...when attacked with a phaser a forcefield blocks the beam...then worf (i think) trys to pull him away from the console but is repelled by the personal forcefield.
So did the borg get weaker shields in first contact...were they more advanced before first contact?
nah its to make a LAME enemy even more lame
the Borg should be a LT comm level enemy at best
.
EH??
there aren't any misconceptions
actually its a very strong presser beam
and the borg can't adapt to something they can't detect
slightly wrong you are confusing startrek and DUNE
specifically DUST
no actually it can't
a borg shield is an "energy disipator" NOT a deflector
no they don't
they are flesh , plastic , pvc and rubber
bullets , arrows even FISTS kill borg
yes data should have disfunctioned at that point
infact he should have been ripped apart at that range
Data is PLASTIC in places
borg DIE if hit but real objects
canon items for killing them include rifle butts , fists , feet , a fire suppression device , an axe , a wall , and in one case I believe a piece of ordinary GLASS
A borgs disiparot shield is reliant on broadcast power from the collective (as number drops so does shield power) and is useless against ANY physical object
in hand to hand a borg dies easily
as its MINDLESS
cool that you bring that up...because the visual effect is exactly the same. i mean it was around the same time.
when i saw the episode the first time i didn't realise it...it was beginning of the 90's, but years later i saw it again, and i was like: "WTF, are the borg from house atredis? i mean picard certainly is!
they are sissy enemies who break easily
they have EXTREMELY limited metal parts (see remains after plasma surge in film)
they are mostly plastic , rubber and pvc
and are badly designed
if you want to remove the weak parts of humans and replace them with metal you lose the TRIBBLE and put in a solid metal chest plate
I like the system as it is. The problem is people joining with zero knowledge, gear is secondary problem, I have actually seen people with tremendous DPS go and ruin the elite doing normal STF estrategies (ignoring cubes, killing generators in the other side of the team's location). I am in a big fleet (420+) and it's very rare when i STF with them cause with 4 toons I don't have much "waiting" time. This might change when I care about doing Ground missions but there are a bunch of info in the web to learn the basics, yet people need to read them :rolleyes:.
btw i feel sad for those who have done 100+ elites and haven't got their Protos, that is something Cryptic should tweak up.
Why do people on this forum not read comments in there full and just take parts out to have ago which in doing so changes the original meaning.
I said CERTAIN STRATS mate and this is a pug where talking about not a pre defined mission discussed and planned.
Oh and yes I do have a Strat for not defending the kang that works 99% of the time but again its one that you need to inform all players of what to do and ask who wants what role not something you can do in a pug especially seeings some pugs have all 1 class, I was in an unfortunate elite pug and we where all Sci support lol so you can imagine the kind of dps we where doing...or not doing lol.
We were thinking an unlocking accolade, a combination of unlocking space elites when you hit all the optional goals and a certain number of missions played; 10 plays each will get you a basic maco shield and 3 pc borg set with some weapons. The optional goals for cure and infected on normal are dead simple, even KA is easy enough but with a PUG you'll need some luck or to know what you are doing. Most of the bad players avoid KA totally.
Unlocking ground elites needs to be separate than space, we all know how absolutely terrible people are in space and on the ground they somehow make their space performance seem capable. The ground optional goals are far more difficult than the space, if you are the idiot running around TRIBBLE with terminals in KA then you lost the optional for your team. Infected is pretty much unpugable, everyone needs to know where not to run, and more than one mess up on a cure turret and its over, a single slip on the towers and its done as well.
I think the equipment check is somewhat valid, but probably too complex. Who is to say what equipment is right and wrong? Our fleet is full of cruisers with Maco XII shields who pop in 2-3 shots on elite, not sure how that can help. You must have repair materials to play elite, sure, but do I need a Maco or Omega set? I don't want that so why should I have to have it?
Removing the public queue for elites might be a blessing and a curse. The eliteSTF channel has virtually no screening process and flocks of ignorant will want to start to find a way to play elites. Right now a choice is made when you see how awful PUGers are and need to find a way out, we find the channel, but when the awful start to find a way to play? What happens then?
I think a skill check needs to be in place, the space optionals are a bit too easy to walk into and gett when you aren't doing anything for the group though.
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that sounds funny and why you not help your members what is your job, to cry about any not known never seen player is one think but in there own fleet?
if anyone ask me somethink in fleet he get a 100% guild from me for free, my fleet is epic so sorry for yours.:D
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I'm sorry, but I can't really understand much of your post. I know people get pissed off when a "grammar TRIBBLE" shows up but I think it's fair when a post--meant as a rebuttal to another post--is difficult to actually understand.
However, I think an important point to consider is that some players, in a fleet or not, don't care about strategy or teamwork and do not respond to in-game team chat. From what I've seen, that can be a bigger problem than lack of dps or a lack of understanding about the STF. One player without much DPS can't do much harm unless they are guarding, but one player who doesn't listen to their teammates and doesn't understand the game can ruin an STF singlehandedly in cure.
Anyhow, I agree with the OP's initial premise. Also, while I believe that Cure Space Elite has a couple of valid ways to be completed (rmmrl vs. clear all nanites first; 1 player kills all the bops vs. 2 players defending, though 1 is obviously more efficient if you have a pro player), there are definitely some "wrong" ways to do it (guard sitting on top of kang instead of intercepting bops, blowing a cube as soon as possible, blowing the middle cube first under any circumstances). Now, I haven't had nearly as bad luck with PuGs as the OP, though I have had plenty of bad games, and I wonder if there is anything on his side that he could do to alleviate this. Perhaps continuing to hone his own strategy and dps down to a point, in order to compensate for the other players' lack of it, and trying as much as possible to communicate tactics throughout the game and being prepared to swap plans if necessary due to other players' failure to respond. It stinks but for now...that's all you can do.
Or, if, like me, the OP tends to prefer PuGs to sitting around for 15 minutes just to get a private match set up, he could cut down on the pain by bringing ONE buddy along. I run STF's with my brother pretty often and together we often do 60-80% of the total damage. We practically never lose a game, though we can't always save the optional--but we get it most times.
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If you have people in your fleet who cannot do STFs, you should teach them how to do it. This means that you explain what happens, when it happens, and why it happens. You may need to explain as you're going which means failing an optional or two on time. But if your fleet's raid-leader(s) are up to scratch that's something they should accept as part of the teaching proccess.
If you have people in your fleet who are either immune to learning or are intentionally wrecking the STFs, you need to re-examine your recruitment process.
As for the rest of your post, I still don't see how gating Elites will work.
You do whatever number of Normals which are (comparatively) TRIBBLE simple in order to get Accolade X, or piece of equipment Y, and then you'll still do into Elites which are at least twice as hard and wipe as soon as a Heavy Tactical Drone looks at you cross-eyed. You'll know the maps better and that's about the limit. Having to do x number of Normal STFs is not a test of skill, it is a test of patience and progression, and whilst equipment helps, it doesn't make a bad player good. Or even make a bad player alright.
The STFs' problem is they're standalone. There is not comparable content in terms of difficulty and required co-ordination anywhere in the game apart from No Win Scenario, which is hardly a teaching tool.
The game needs multiplayer content of gradually increasing difficulty with complicated objectives that require team co-operation, as you level up to get players accustomed to playing in such an environment rather than saying "here you go, play STFs now!" when they hit level 45, and then offering them Elites at level 50 which are about twice as hard (and spoiler: They're still actually easy once you get used to them). Starbase Blockade and Incursion are a start, but they're really not the same animal as an STF.
If I had someone in my fleet consistently not responding to team-chat and not making any effort whatsoever to be a team player (ie. not a single mistake or single isntance of ignoring/missing chat, I mean doing it the whole time), I'd kick them out.
Do people not manage their fleets in this game or something?
if your fleet is full with newbies"you includet?" and you not able to teach them, mister imba dps 80% dps from a 5 man group.:D
sorry i am "gramma TRIBBLE" but its your fail.
other fleets work perfect.:eek:
BOTS... the reason the guys were probably sitting at the Kang is because of In Game, Macro Bots, only there to collect marks, and dilithium, I am seeing this more and more. I hope STO figures a way to get rid of them....
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they have enough legit things they need to do besides alter a system that works perfectly fine.
further, i have alts, and tend to make more, all your 'testing' scheme will do is delay me getting into stf's that i already know how to do. not only me i suspect that makes alts. delaying everyone who knows what to do and how to gear because some of you can't make use of the other options.
gear check? pffft, you don't need uber gear...so who decides? is it a mark cutoff? someone could come in with rainbow mkxi...completely wrong loadout in all console/boff slots...but all mkxi so that's a fail.
accolade check? you're joking right? have one character sitting at 49 with a grand total of...1650 accolade points. one more run through mirror event they'll be 50...so umm yeah, accolade points reeeaally matter >.>
# of runs through normals? they're nothing like elite so also pointless.
the only criteria to bar someone from elite...and it should be any mission is critical injuries. either ship or captain they should be locked out of any missions until they heal themselves. if captain, locked out of ground missions, if ship locked out of space missions. something that should have been implemented anyway imo. with a warning on every map transition that they are critically injured.
you can't test for ability to run an elite from current in game parameters. just like you can't test people who can't seem to get the idea they don't have to pug as this and other threads obviously shows.
there are other options, make use of them, otherwise it's your choice to pug, accept the consequences. wonder how many of you call yourself 'gamers' lol
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the no group with those on your ignore list? that's not a test. well, except your own personal test.
expecting anything from a pug, including gear is stupid...except infected space. would you expect 4 random strangers to be able to fix your car? your PC? your house? let me guess, you just grab random people off the street when you want something done and expect them to be able to do it?
you're expecting things in a game you couldn't get in real life...4 randoms who can do everything YOU expect them to do for you.
simply put, your expectations aren't based on reality...even game reality. yea, you can get a pug that runs flawlessly...but you can also get one that goes fubar in the first minute. welcome to the analogy of the real world...strangers don't always do what you expect or want them to :O
protip? don't pug
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so then explain a replicator please. in the moment, the security protocols were overridden, the holodeck "replicated" the bullets. also, energy dmg is different than kinetic dmg. we already know today. how? there are suits that can withstand a few thousand volts but they cannot keep you save from bullets. of course, there is armor for that too but this is star trek
expect people to be able to repair my computer? no. expect people to be able to drive their own cars? absolutly. all i expect is a mild level of competentcy, and the standard gear the ship is equipped with. oh, and i expect chat open. if you think thats too much to ask from the average person, then either were in a really sad state as gamers, or you need to see a psychiatrist.
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i didn't say drive i said repair, and i didn't say their own car i said yours. not a matter of mental instability either, it's reality. your expectations are too high and unrealistic. and kindly don't call yourself a gamer...that's an embarrassment to real gamers. gamers expect only what they can deliver, nothing more, nothing less. realize that relying on randoms is just that, random, no expectations from people you don't know.
the only people you can count on usually is a static group or players you know...everyone else can do whatever they want and do. the only person that may need to have their assessment of reality modified is you. to expect as if it's a given that people will act as you want them too is...naive. to say the least. megalomania to say the worst.
it's a game, and one people will play how they want regardless of your expectations. if they want to run an stf just to TRIBBLE it up for everyone because that's how they get their jollies they will. what's fun for you doesn't apply to everyone. either accept that the world doesn't work the way you want or expect it to or become a hermit...because it's not going to change.
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i almost thought you were a troll when i read your last sentance...
is expecting first grade level competentcy unrealistic? no. granted, not expecting trolls may be a bit much, but having chat open is not.
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troll because of the last sentence? trying to be nice...but you just don't get it. people in the game as people in RL aren't going to do anything you expect them to. why should they? they have their own ideas, they're not robots nor clones of you. you expecting anything from 4 strangers is unrealistic.
if the real world doesn't work that way...why would a game? you don't even get that first, second, third or whatever grade competency does not matter...they'll act how they want. in fact some, if they know it bugs you or others will do so intentionally. it isn't age, it isn't schooling...it's individual personalities.
chat open? perhaps many of them do...and just choose not to respond...ever think of that? that they're sitting there laughing at all the people yelling at them?
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I'm not expecting nor demanding anything. If someone is smart enough to earn the money to buy a computer, then an internet service, then figure out how to download and install sto, then figure out how to play the game, then beat the game, it isn't unrealistic to assume that same person can fly a ship. You made it to l50, so you should have figured out how to control a ship, read the little instruction box that says IN BIG BOLD LETTERS shoot this than this. Also, people ought to have figured out that 'elite' = greater challenge. I don't care what happens on normal, but damn, someone who plays an mmo better sure as hell know how to read. My system is supposed to let those people who take fun in trolling, those who are clueless, and those who greif keep playing their way, and me play mine, but it will suceed where cryptic's system failed- that is, in dividing people up so everyone can play the way they want. And I said ALMOST- I've decided you aren't a troll
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