Sigh. Hate to bring the news to you, but: No, not everyone should prefer DHC's over DC's. There are perfectly good reasons to prefer DH's over DHC's in some cases, not all of which are cost related.
Guess what happens next. :rolleyes:
then i guess i was wrong, you would give advice that bad. it will never ceases to amaze me how you literally have to argue every established truth. the DHC/DC debate was settles long ago. the only advantage with DC's is DEM and tetryon glider, per weapon strike abilities. their cycle also completes about a half second sooner, so after thousands of shots you might get an additional proc or 2. but the damage you loose out on, even if you can complete a DC's full cycle and use DEM and glider, could never make up for the inferior damage dealing abilities of DCs
then i guess i was wrong, you would give advice that bad. it will never ceases to amaze me how you literally have to argue every established truth. the DHC/DC debate was settles long ago. the only advantage with DC's is DEM and tetryon glider, per weapon strike abilities. their cycle also completes about a half second sooner, so after thousands of shots you might get an additional proc or 2. but the damage you loose out on, even if you can complete a DC's full cycle and use DEM and glider, could never make up for the inferior damage dealing abilities of DCs
Even with DEM and tetglider... your better off with DHC, as both skills are heavily dependent on weapon power. Perhaps while nadion is running on an engi you will see some more dmg... however even in that case nadion is only up for 30 sec every 3 min... so I would say if you are going for sustained dmg DHC are still better...
PS Sophie this is the PvP section of the forums... thus I am going to assume people are asking for PvP advice... and not how to draw less argo from donatra. lol
They fire more volleys per second, meaning they proc a bit more.
why am i not surprised. thats wrong, by the way. theres only 1 chance to proc per cycle, not per shot.
DHCs only need to point at your target for about 1 second to deal 100% of their damage. DCs need to point at their target for 4 seconds to deal 100% of their damage. with how maneuverable things are, and how small that arc is, thats an incredibly big deal.
every single shot from a cycle deals damage based on the energy level you have the server tic the shot is fired. the last 2 or 3 shots will be dealing much less damage then the first 2 as your energy levels plummet. DHC's fire off in the first second of the cycle, firing before energy levels can plummet.
thats the theory at least, but the damage logs show that this basically is what happens. the damage logs also show that the total damage after hundreds of shots is simply much higher when its DHCs that fire vs DCs. unless the people that ran those tests are liers, and aside from the bug topic the good posters here don't strike me as intentionally dishonest.
Even with DEM and tetglider... your better off with DHC, as both skills are heavily dependent on weapon power. Perhaps while nadion is running on an engi you will see some more dmg... however even in that case nadion is only up for 30 sec every 3 min... so I would say if you are going for sustained dmg DHC are still better...
PS Sophie this is the PvP section of the forums... thus I am going to assume people are asking for PvP advice... and not how to draw less argo from donatra. lol
it would only seem like it better utilizes those things, i wouldn't be surprised if a test showed that they were worse at using those things too.
I've redone my build a bit after trying some different things based on y'alls suggestions, and this is what I've come up with. Anything obviously wrong with this...or not so obvious?
Fore Weapons:
2 Purple XII Phased Tetryon Dual-Heavy Cannons [ACC]x2, 1 Purple XII Tetryon Beam Bank [ACC]x3, 1 Purple XII Quantum Torp. [ACC]x2[CrtD]
Aft Weapons:
3 Purple XII Phased Tetryon Turrets [ACC]x2
Sets:
2 Piece Borg (Console + Deflector) / 2 Piece XII Honor Gaurd (Shield + Engines)
Consoles:
Tac: 3 Purple + 1 Blue XII Tetryon Consoles, 1 Purple XII Zero Point Console
Sci: 1 Purple XII Field Generator
Eng: 2 Purple XII Neutronium, 1 Purple XII RCS, Borg Console
Tac Abilities:
Tactical Team x2, Cannon Rapid Fire 1, Beam Overload 2, High Yield Torpedo 3, Attack Pattern Omega 1, Attack Pattern Omega 3
Sci Abilities:
Tractor Beam 1, Hazard Emitters 2
Eng Abilities:
Emergency Power to Weapons 1, Emergency Power to Shields 1, Reverse Shield Polarity 1
Active Space Doffs:
3 Purple Shield Distribution Doffs + 2 Conn Officers (evasive maneuvers)
Why both a DBB and a quantum? Shouldn't either of the two suffice for "finish off" spike damage, allowing you to be more aggressive with your main weaponry, the DHC's?
Yes, Dual Beam Bank. I'm using the beam bank + overload along with rapid fire to take their shields down quick and then using the quantums with high yield and KHG bonus for the hull smashing. If I time it right they won't have time to react before the torpedoes hit. With the 3 DHC's it gave them a longer time to use shield buffs before their shields completely failed on one facing. With the DBB + Quantum it doesn't seem to be as good for sustained damage, but the spike damage seems better. I started off with a Phased Tetryon DBB with [ACC]x2, but the overload shot seemed to miss a lot so I got a regular Tetryon with [ACC]x3, which helped some, but I still had a lot of misses, which is why I added the tractor beam.
I've redone my build a bit after trying some different things based on y'alls suggestions, and this is what I've come up with. Anything obviously wrong with this...or not so obvious?
Fore Weapons:
2 Purple XII Phased Tetryon Dual-Heavy Cannons [ACC]x2, 1 Purple XII Tetryon Beam Bank [ACC]x3, 1 Purple XII Quantum Torp. [ACC]x2[CrtD]
Aft Weapons:
3 Purple XII Phased Tetryon Turrets [ACC]x2
Sets:
2 Piece Borg (Console + Deflector) / 2 Piece XII Honor Gaurd (Shield + Engines)
Consoles:
Tac: 3 Purple + 1 Blue XII Tetryon Consoles, 1 Purple XII Zero Point Console
Sci: 1 Purple XII Field Generator
Eng: 2 Purple XII Neutronium, 1 Purple XII RCS, Borg Console
Tac Abilities:
Tactical Team x2, Cannon Rapid Fire 1, Beam Overload 2, High Yield Torpedo 3, Attack Pattern Omega 1, Attack Pattern Omega 3
Sci Abilities:
Tractor Beam 1, Hazard Emitters 2
Eng Abilities:
Emergency Power to Weapons 1, Emergency Power to Shields 1, Reverse Shield Polarity 1
Active Space Doffs:
3 Purple Shield Distribution Doffs + 2 Conn Officers (evasive maneuvers)
Looks like you are going for the super spike idea... it can work... really though... I would say you are way light on the rapid fire patterns which is going to account for 80% of your dmg potential. Myself I would loose the beam and the overload 2.... likely put Rapid Fire 3 in for Omega 3... and then run a copy of Delta 1.
You have lots of shield heals already true... but honestly I would likely say a copy of Transfer shield strength would still be better then the tractor 1... although I get the idea... tractor Overload + HY.
Also if you are going to run torps at all I don't think you can afford to run zero torp doffs.... the dps increase is just way to good when you run them.
Myself I would run Hazards 1 + TSS 2 on your sci....
With 2 Torp doffs instead of the Conn officers. (There likely to be nerfed shortly anyway)
Really I would likely try 2 quantums... with HY 3 and HY 2 + 2 doffs.... then on your alphas you can preload HY 3 and 2 very easily and spit 7 torps as you scream into a target... that is where it would really be nice to have Rapid fire 3 so you can really try to get that facing down... honestly Overload is just to often a miss to be reliable for that.
Still what ever works for you is the way to go... nothing majorly wrong with the build in anyway.
Comments
then i guess i was wrong, you would give advice that bad. it will never ceases to amaze me how you literally have to argue every established truth. the DHC/DC debate was settles long ago. the only advantage with DC's is DEM and tetryon glider, per weapon strike abilities. their cycle also completes about a half second sooner, so after thousands of shots you might get an additional proc or 2. but the damage you loose out on, even if you can complete a DC's full cycle and use DEM and glider, could never make up for the inferior damage dealing abilities of DCs
Even with DEM and tetglider... your better off with DHC, as both skills are heavily dependent on weapon power. Perhaps while nadion is running on an engi you will see some more dmg... however even in that case nadion is only up for 30 sec every 3 min... so I would say if you are going for sustained dmg DHC are still better...
PS Sophie this is the PvP section of the forums... thus I am going to assume people are asking for PvP advice... and not how to draw less argo from donatra. lol
why am i not surprised. thats wrong, by the way. theres only 1 chance to proc per cycle, not per shot.
DHCs only need to point at your target for about 1 second to deal 100% of their damage. DCs need to point at their target for 4 seconds to deal 100% of their damage. with how maneuverable things are, and how small that arc is, thats an incredibly big deal.
every single shot from a cycle deals damage based on the energy level you have the server tic the shot is fired. the last 2 or 3 shots will be dealing much less damage then the first 2 as your energy levels plummet. DHC's fire off in the first second of the cycle, firing before energy levels can plummet.
thats the theory at least, but the damage logs show that this basically is what happens. the damage logs also show that the total damage after hundreds of shots is simply much higher when its DHCs that fire vs DCs. unless the people that ran those tests are liers, and aside from the bug topic the good posters here don't strike me as intentionally dishonest.
it would only seem like it better utilizes those things, i wouldn't be surprised if a test showed that they were worse at using those things too.
tl;dr
Borg procs and stuff like that gets activated from DC fire more often.. Single cannons can be useful in some quirky builds, DCs probably never.
borticus expressly stated that that is how it works in a post here, but i think that was before nu forums, so its lost to us now
oh wait nevermind, he found it. thats individual post he linked is made by me by the way.
If you want to confirm how that works, 2 DHC's have as many energy pulses coming as 1 DC, but 2 weapon cycles running.
Edit: better do it with maco shield or something, the borg 2pc has a cooldown
Edit2: Cannon Rapid Fire..
Fore Weapons:
2 Purple XII Phased Tetryon Dual-Heavy Cannons [ACC]x2, 1 Purple XII Tetryon Beam Bank [ACC]x3, 1 Purple XII Quantum Torp. [ACC]x2[CrtD]
Aft Weapons:
3 Purple XII Phased Tetryon Turrets [ACC]x2
Sets:
2 Piece Borg (Console + Deflector) / 2 Piece XII Honor Gaurd (Shield + Engines)
Consoles:
Tac: 3 Purple + 1 Blue XII Tetryon Consoles, 1 Purple XII Zero Point Console
Sci: 1 Purple XII Field Generator
Eng: 2 Purple XII Neutronium, 1 Purple XII RCS, Borg Console
Tac Abilities:
Tactical Team x2, Cannon Rapid Fire 1, Beam Overload 2, High Yield Torpedo 3, Attack Pattern Omega 1, Attack Pattern Omega 3
Sci Abilities:
Tractor Beam 1, Hazard Emitters 2
Eng Abilities:
Emergency Power to Weapons 1, Emergency Power to Shields 1, Reverse Shield Polarity 1
Active Space Doffs:
3 Purple Shield Distribution Doffs + 2 Conn Officers (evasive maneuvers)
@DevolvedOne
Yes, Dual Beam Bank. I'm using the beam bank + overload along with rapid fire to take their shields down quick and then using the quantums with high yield and KHG bonus for the hull smashing. If I time it right they won't have time to react before the torpedoes hit. With the 3 DHC's it gave them a longer time to use shield buffs before their shields completely failed on one facing. With the DBB + Quantum it doesn't seem to be as good for sustained damage, but the spike damage seems better. I started off with a Phased Tetryon DBB with [ACC]x2, but the overload shot seemed to miss a lot so I got a regular Tetryon with [ACC]x3, which helped some, but I still had a lot of misses, which is why I added the tractor beam.
@DevolvedOne
Looks like you are going for the super spike idea... it can work... really though... I would say you are way light on the rapid fire patterns which is going to account for 80% of your dmg potential. Myself I would loose the beam and the overload 2.... likely put Rapid Fire 3 in for Omega 3... and then run a copy of Delta 1.
You have lots of shield heals already true... but honestly I would likely say a copy of Transfer shield strength would still be better then the tractor 1... although I get the idea... tractor Overload + HY.
Also if you are going to run torps at all I don't think you can afford to run zero torp doffs.... the dps increase is just way to good when you run them.
Myself I would run Hazards 1 + TSS 2 on your sci....
With 2 Torp doffs instead of the Conn officers. (There likely to be nerfed shortly anyway)
Really I would likely try 2 quantums... with HY 3 and HY 2 + 2 doffs.... then on your alphas you can preload HY 3 and 2 very easily and spit 7 torps as you scream into a target... that is where it would really be nice to have Rapid fire 3 so you can really try to get that facing down... honestly Overload is just to often a miss to be reliable for that.
Still what ever works for you is the way to go... nothing majorly wrong with the build in anyway.