Call me crazy, but there is plenty of reason to beam out of PUGS. Everyone likes to point out that they should be able to play how they want. I agree, to a point. If your going to run your commander level ship into a PUG you can expect me to say something or warp out. If you can't have the simple consideration for other people to peruse the walkthroughs and bring an appropriate ship with appropriate gear than your about as rude as can be. If you insist on making things hard, by all means find some friends and go run your STF's with people who don't mind or don't have better things to do with their time. Asking total strangers to suck it up for your "fun" is totally out of whack with how people in PUG's should act. TRIBBLE like that is why PUG's have such a horrible reputation. The other day I had some guy in a commander BoP come into a normal Cure PUG. He more or less wasted everyone's time by bringing NOTHING to the team. Why should I or anyone stick around for that? Do that TRIBBLE on YOUR time, not 4 other peoples time.
Want pugs to not suck? Than do your part. Learn the STF's, plenty of links available. Bring the best gear you have, and expect that of everyone else. I am not interested in 30 min KASN runs. Get your head out of your rear end and realize you have 4 other people depending on you...act like you at least care a little about their time and fun.
Baudl.... whether lowlevel players get their gear scaled up to mk11 or mk12 is beside the point. Do you really think that it's reasonable to expect VA players to have Mk12 fleet gear? I don't!
The important part is that they are scaled up to be able to play against VA level enemies and not get annihilated.
well it's more about the misinformation spreaded by sollvax generally...this was only one of the more obvious examples. And yes...a VA can easily get MK XII borg gear, and in my opinion those even are the cheapest to get.
Comparing, and even to state that they are equal with TOS weapons is insane and is misguiding newer players.
A puple MK XII stun pistal can be bought from the exchange for less than 100k...and i was nowhere mentioning fleet gear anyway.
i mean i still meet people online that don't know that there is a puprle MKX Kit for each class nearly 4 free, many run around with starter Kits...no wonder so many events fail.
combine this with a weak weapon, which many think is a good choice and in fact is total TRIBBLE, when in fact the top end weapons are insanely easy to obtain.
Thats advice that should be given on the forum...not that all VA's are bad players and elitists, or that captain gear is good enough. That is a massive misinformation campain that leads to bad players at VA level.
So spread the true information not that untrue sehlat TRIBBLE, that TOS weapons are as good as purple MKXII weapons. (again very easy to obtain)
Did you ralize that sollvax even thinks that the scaling is not necessary since lower levels do a better job than VA's in fleet event in his opinion? And certain fleet events should be low level tier only...combined with his general disgust of VA's...which this thread was really inicially started for by him.
the rason why many leave STF's when the optional fails is because they still don't know that the grp loot box cannot contain prototype borg technology...yet they leave, because they think they lost their chance for the set piece. Misinformation is the reason they leave.
Even during fleet events it does not matter if you fail at the end...you get the fleet marks during the mission...so leaving is always a dumb idea anyway. Even if you go on with only 4 or even 3 you get fleet marks out of it.
You simply can't expect everyone in a PUG to know what they're doing.
I have two VA's and one LG, been playing the game since before Season 2. I've been on these forums ever since. I've never run a single STF, hardly ever played PvP. I've read walkthroughs, and posts galore, and yadda, yadda, yadda. But I haven't actually done it -- I've played my own way, mostly solo PvE, and had fun doing it.
I'm in the process of setting up some of my characters for team play now and when I'm satisfied I will jump into a queue occasionally. So beware.
I'm quite sure that most of the people complaining about PUGs would say that I don't know what I'm doing if I ever showed up to play "Infected". They'd be right. I have no experience with it.
They'd see me play, decide I have the "wrong" build, and then they'd assume I'm a VA noob-wonder and unteachable and they'd drop out in frustration. And they'd be wrong.
I am trainable. But if anyone expects me to grind 6 hours of STO a day to get the "right" build and gear, it's not going to happen. I've got better things to do.
Normal people don't spend every moment out of game poring over the forums so they can max out their builds. A lot of 'em probably don't even care these forums exist. And they don't spend hours more tweaking every little thing to get their ship and characters just so. They just want to play the dang game.
Some of them will learn the hard way that they can't casually join an elite STF run and then they'll avoid them and play something else. I say we let them do it. Some of those will decide they want to beat the thing and change the way they play instead. Might take them a few tries to get the hang of it, maybe try a lower difficulty for awhile. And I say we let them do that too.
Since there's no "L33T G4M4RZ" tag that they can put on players so that the game recognizes the STO demigods and separates them from the mortals... put up with inexperienced players or suffer the leaver penalty.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Since there's no "L33T G4M4RZ" tag that they can put on players so that the game recognizes the STO demigods and separates them from the mortals... put up with inexperienced players or suffer the leaver penalty.
That^, Baudl, is the point I was making. It's a PUG. PUGs have NooBs and lowlevel players, and occasionally, whiners such as yourself. Personally I prefer NooBs to whiners.
And seriously? I think you're greatly overstating the ease with which people can get MK12 gear. Besides... Stun pistol? Really? They're cheap because they aren't very good. I'd rather use a Blue Mk10 than a purple Mk12 stun pistol. I just checked the only purple MK12 personal weapons under 100k are either phased Tetryon (decent) or Sonic Antiproton(not very good)
That^, Baudl, is the point I was making. It's a PUG. PUGs have NooBs and lowlevel players, and occasionally, whiners such as yourself. Personally I prefer NooBs to whiners.
And seriously? I think you're greatly overstating the ease with which people can get MK12 gear. Besides... Stun pistol? Really? They're cheap because they aren't very good. I'd rather use a Blue Mk10 than a purple Mk12 stun pistol. I just checked the only purple MK12 personal weapons under 100k are either phased Tetryon (decent) or Sonic Antiproton(not very good)
thank you for that actually...those weapons are ridiculously cheap on the exchange, and even if you are not fighting tholians still good weapons. If you don't use even this weapons in fleet events as a VA, or a RAUH.
Weapons are good (the sonic modifier is only one modifier out of 3, so the weapon is still equal to a rare MKXII) and very very easy to get.
Any VA, that is running around in fleet events with less than rare MKXI and less than MKX rare Kit, has absolutely no idea of this game whatsoever.
The Kit is obtainable via a vendor, or exchange for just a small amount of EC.
This informations have nothing to do with being elitist or "L33T G4M4RZ"...far from it.
I've read walkthroughs, and posts galore, and yadda, yadda, yadda. But I haven't actually done it -- I've played my own way, mostly solo PvE, and had fun doing it.
doing that would qualify you for some people here already as elitist or even cheater (lol, yeah knowledge is dangerous), but in my opinion thats what everybody should do prior to join an elite STF or any other group content.
I join group content with the intention to give my best, or atleast don't be a burden for the grp...the last i expect from any other person that joins group content, but seeing a person obviously using gimped out gear, and obviously not knowing what to do (multiple injuries, before event starts), I have to ask myself: "what is this person thinking? why is he doing group content? Even if he is new to the game, has he learning disabilities? Can't he google simple things?"
thank you for that actually...those weapons are ridiculously cheap on the exchange, and even if you are not fighting tholians still good weapons. If you don't use even this weapons in fleet events as a VA, or a RAUH.
Weapons are good (the sonic modifier is only one modifier out of 3, so the weapon is still equal to a rare MKXII) and very very easy to get.
Any VA, that is running around in fleet events with less than rare MKXI and less than MKX rare Kit, has absolutely no idea of this game whatsoever.
The Kit is obtainable via a vendor, or exchange for just a small amount of EC.
This informations have nothing to do with being elitist or "L33T G4M4RZ"...far from it.
The point I was making is that the only Purple MK12s are weapon types that are at least IMO generally BAD. I'm not gonna use a cruddy weapon type just because it's the highest level thing I can find. And the prices on the exchange seem to suggest that others also feel that Sonic weapons(mostly high density rifles) and phased tetryon stun pistols aren't that good.
Truth is I have 8 Fed VAs and not all of them have gear of MK10 blue or better. Why not? It's time consuming to get. Some of my guys have awesome stuff, several use a MK11 Jem'Hadar set. Others use random cobbled together bits of whatever they have. All have at least a MK10 weapon but not always great shields and armor.
it's that some people this is just a game, and for others, it's a lifestyle choice.
srsly...the argument "it's just a game" when discussing whether or not some things in game are better than other and how they can be obtained with little effort, has no validity in this context.
Ofcourse it's only a game, and i couldn't care less if somebody runs around with gimped gear in group content.
But it's generally unpolite and shows little interest in the game (in which you just commented on the forum, this alone shows that you take the more serious than others) if you fly around in a weak setup, when you have the possibility to have better stuff, much better stuff with only little effort.
and again...the sonic weapons are good weapons even against normal mobs (still a rare MKXII)
And they cost nothing, because they can be obtained in just minutes of playing nukara prime. Not because they are generally bad. Same goes for the phased tetryons, atleast on ground.
I only brought up the examples of stun pistols, because the type 2 phasers are stun pistols too, very low DPS (uncommon and rare) and scale only to mk XI...
Back to the "just a game argument"...
I browse the forums anyway nearly everyday before midday...so when i see somebody spreading sehlat TRIBBLE about game stuff, i correct that...with evidence preferably.
And stating that TOS phasers are better or same as purple MKXII, or that those weapons scale to MKXII is just the kind misinformation this game and newer players suffer from.
"I don't need to inform myself because it's just a game!" is kind of a philosophy i don't share, and quite frankly in my opinion is pure ignorance.
At the end you are playing with other people that expect a certain level of interest and enthusiasm to be better or get better. If you feel like, "Oh well my TOS phasers are good enough, i don't need those purple pulsewave" you should stop playing entirely...because the main reason to play (appart from just having a digital barby in star trek uniform) should be to advance your toon and get better at playing. (to many thats the reason they play and they enjoy it, and thats not an elitist mindset)
doing that would qualify you for some people here already as elitist or even cheater (lol, yeah knowledge is dangerous), but in my opinion thats what everybody should do prior to join an elite STF or any other group content.
I join group content with the intention to give my best, or atleast don't be a burden for the grp...the last i expect from any other person that joins group content, but seeing a person obviously using gimped out gear, and obviously not knowing what to do (multiple injuries, before event starts), I have to ask myself: "what is this person thinking? why is he doing group content? Even if he is new to the game, has he learning disabilities? Can't he google simple things?"
I agree that people should try to do their best.
But the question I have to ask myself is, how many twelve year old kids and under are playing this game? It is F2P. All you need is an email account, right? Do we expect kids to know what they're doing and read the forums?
Same thing for non-English-speaking players, and I know we have those. Their English might not be that good, or they may be able to speak but not read English. If they don't happen to be able to read French or German well, the internationalization won't help much either.
Maybe they are doing their best, and they're handicapped by the language barrier. Maybe they don't have the same opportunity I have to read up.
Now I'm not saying that there aren't other people out there who don't have either excuse for not knowing.
Maybe they unwisely skipped the optional tutorial about elite difficulty and injuries. There's probably also a fair percentage that simply don't care to go outside the game for information. And there's probably a fair percentage of "gold farmers" out there who are just in it to pile up resources they can sell and don't care how well they play as long as they're able to farm.
Believe me, I am not unfamiliar with your frustration. I was in quite a lot of failed runs in CoH with players who joined a PUG because they couldn't solo the mission but played as if they were still soloing. Classic Frostfire scenario -- I got quite sick of running through that one. I couldn't count the team wipes if I used all my fingers and toes, and yours too, and every player in my fleet.
Maybe what STO needs is its' own "Frostfire" -- an early mission part of the main storyline that forces you to join a group to be successful before you hit endgame.
Still, I agree people should be able to beam out at will and I also agree with the penalty for doing it. Because the people still in the mission are also stuck with a penalty whenever someone quits. I understand both sides of that equation.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Back to Incursion
the highest scores I have seen (including some 40's) were all in instances where
1 no one stealthed , popped drones or security escorts or otherwise messed about in phase 1
2 no one went "sniper mode" in phase 2
3 No one went comms dark and mavericked
4 people understood the concept of "left and right"
5 no one logged out, beamed out or leeched (which incidentally I have NEVER seen from anyone below the rank of VA)
1 - TBH since most of the time PUGs people don't know squat about step 2 strategies and are a weight for the team : letting them die and/or deal with guards while you go on your own with stealth is the best way to ensure the 4 saboters will be killed.
When i PUG this mission that's how i usually save the score to 30ish marks.
2 - Sniping is completely illogical if you can't 1 shot an ennemy heavily guarded.
3 - See 1.
4 - People, actually reading chat ? C'mon after 300+ CSE/ISE including many many PUGs i can assure you this is an urban legend, alot don't even have chat window up !
5 - True, those doing that are b****s. There should be a timer + counter before actually leaving group after a beam out, to give time to people still in group to report/blacklist beamers/leechers and increment the counter so they can't creat private matchs and are set as low piority on queues.
Conclusion : solution to avoid troubles is the same than STFs, creat private room and play with players you know and play well with.
And concerning the other debate : no, high end gear is NOT important for this mission, the *only* important thing here is knowledge. Sadly it is only obtained by people willing to get it and learn/listen who are as common as gold nuggets.
BUT, here is the thing: it's open entry for Fleet mark events, and there's a pathetic little 30 minute wait if you feel like storming off like the very favoured son of Zeus because your army isn't up to your personal standard.
Let me give you a little hint: NOBODY WILL NOTICE, nobody will say "But why won't he stay?" Nobody. They'll say "Douchebag ditched us." and that's the end of it-because nobody CARES how many straight hours you have at the keyboard, how masterfully you've developed your character's income stream, or how you've beaten the game so many times you can do it sleeping-upside-down in a Hurricane, powered by two d-cell batteries and a case of red-bull.
The key here, is that nobody CARES why you feel you're being cheated of your due, they don't care, because NOBODY OWES YOU ANYTHING. MOST players here are Casual players, they don't spend 8-12+ Hours a day grinding STF's and reading the tip-threads on how to have the perfect build for STF, PvP, or PvE play. MOST players don't have Millions of EC accumulated with 20 different toons dating back to the Beta Test, vast stores of Dilithium, and more than half the Z/C store's stock in their inventories plus all the lockbox TRIBBLE.
You are OUT NUMBERED. Fleet events are structured for people who maybe, at most, will spend a couple hours on the game a night, maybe as many as six on weekends, who just WANT TO PLAY. "Max Fleetmarks" is an Objective, not a Right to be Guaranteed.
Can you comprehend that? Can you comprehend someone feeling they've done well if they pull 25 or 30 FM out of a fifteen minute event, because they don't DO STO as a JOB substitute?
Nice diatribe.
It still does not excuse being a leech in the queue, but that's Cryptic's fault for allowing it.
BUT, here is the thing: it's open entry for Fleet mark events, and there's a pathetic little 30 minute wait if you feel like storming off like the very favoured son of Zeus because your army isn't up to your personal standard.
Let me give you a little hint: NOBODY WILL NOTICE, nobody will say "But why won't he stay?" Nobody. They'll say "Douchebag ditched us." and that's the end of it-because nobody CARES how many straight hours you have at the keyboard, how masterfully you've developed your character's income stream, or how you've beaten the game so many times you can do it sleeping-upside-down in a Hurricane, powered by two d-cell batteries and a case of red-bull.
The key here, is that nobody CARES why you feel you're being cheated of your due, they don't care, because NOBODY OWES YOU ANYTHING. MOST players here are Casual players, they don't spend 8-12+ Hours a day grinding STF's and reading the tip-threads on how to have the perfect build for STF, PvP, or PvE play. MOST players don't have Millions of EC accumulated with 20 different toons dating back to the Beta Test, vast stores of Dilithium, and more than half the Z/C store's stock in their inventories plus all the lockbox TRIBBLE.
You are OUT NUMBERED. Fleet events are structured for people who maybe, at most, will spend a couple hours on the game a night, maybe as many as six on weekends, who just WANT TO PLAY. "Max Fleetmarks" is an Objective, not a Right to be Guaranteed.
Can you comprehend that? Can you comprehend someone feeling they've done well if they pull 25 or 30 FM out of a fifteen minute event, because they don't DO STO as a JOB substitute?
if you don't care, why come back and post here anyway. I can understand that you like to play this game in a more casual fashion, and that you feel kind of jealous about people that have achieved more in this game.
But what you do, is actually dismissing good advices to improve your game, and maybe add to a more sattisfying experiance or be more successfull in general in this game.
My advice is ment for players at the beginning, that take the game not as casual as you do, and maybe want to improve over time.
And nobody needs to play more than 6 hours a week to actually be ontop...1h a day is enough.
BUT, here is the thing: it's open entry for Fleet mark events, and there's a pathetic little 30 minute wait if you feel like storming off like the very favoured son of Zeus because your army isn't up to your personal standard.
Let me give you a little hint: NOBODY WILL NOTICE, nobody will say "But why won't he stay?" Nobody. They'll say "Douchebag ditched us." and that's the end of it-because nobody CARES how many straight hours you have at the keyboard, how masterfully you've developed your character's income stream, or how you've beaten the game so many times you can do it sleeping-upside-down in a Hurricane, powered by two d-cell batteries and a case of red-bull.
The key here, is that nobody CARES why you feel you're being cheated of your due, they don't care, because NOBODY OWES YOU ANYTHING. MOST players here are Casual players, they don't spend 8-12+ Hours a day grinding STF's and reading the tip-threads on how to have the perfect build for STF, PvP, or PvE play. MOST players don't have Millions of EC accumulated with 20 different toons dating back to the Beta Test, vast stores of Dilithium, and more than half the Z/C store's stock in their inventories plus all the lockbox TRIBBLE.
You are OUT NUMBERED. Fleet events are structured for people who maybe, at most, will spend a couple hours on the game a night, maybe as many as six on weekends, who just WANT TO PLAY. "Max Fleetmarks" is an Objective, not a Right to be Guaranteed.
Can you comprehend that? Can you comprehend someone feeling they've done well if they pull 25 or 30 FM out of a fifteen minute event, because they don't DO STO as a JOB substitute?
And can you comprehend the group of earned and experienced capable players working hard, grumbling the same thing back that why do we have to suffer LESS marks and missions taking sooo long because of this noob TRIBBLE it up? And that happens 99% of the time with PUGS with noobs in it. Do you think we care if the noob heard us grumbling? No we just dump his low butt on ignore.
So your argument is more or less JEALOUSY that a capable team can do what a noob can't. Hence the whole Zeus comment.
It just appear no matter what, that the ones who have earned their place, played their dues played properly and didn't bail are suddenly such Elitist bad guys for doing so now.
Feel free to ignore me anytime.
Too Bad, So Sad
PS: Sollvax, no need to add your worthless wooden nickel comments.
if you don't care, why come back and post here anyway. I can understand that you like to play this game in a more casual fashion, and that you feel kind of jealous about people that have achieved more in this game.
But what you do, is actually dismissing good advices to improve your game, and maybe add to a more sattisfying experiance or be more successfull in general in this game.
My advice is ment for players at the beginning, that take the game not as casual as you do, and maybe want to improve over time.
And nobody needs to play more than 6 hours a week to actually be ontop...1h a day is enough.
Well said and my sentiments exactly.
Too Bad, So Sad
PS: Sollvax, no need to add your worthless wooden nickel comments.
And can you comprehend the group of earned and experienced capable players working hard, grumbling the same thing back that why do we have to suffer LESS marks and missions taking sooo long because of this noob TRIBBLE it up? And that happens 99% of the time with PUGS with noobs in it. Do you think we care if the noob heard us grumbling? No we just dump his low butt on ignore.
So your argument is more or less JEALOUSY that a capable team can do what a noob can't. Hence the whole Zeus comment.
It just appear no matter what, that the ones who have earned their place, played their dues played properly and didn't bail are suddenly such Elitist bad guys for doing so now.
Feel free to ignore me anytime.
Ya' know? I'm one of those guys who regularly gets the objectives on Colony defense while the rest of the team is shooting stuff. I personally do everything I can to make sure that my team gets the most marks possible. Yeah it annoys me when the other guys ignore the objectives. But... Enh... I can live with it.... especially when we're stuck fighting Breen.... Ugh.... I hate them....
But that doesn't cover the full intent of Fleet Mark events...because there is a secondary reason why they are structured the way they are-to condition NEW players away from the "Solo against the idiot AI/no mistake matters" nature of the mission content, toward learning how to team for STF's...because most players don't read the Forums, and after VA it's hard to find missions where you ARE NOT needing a real-live player covering your back. (Try soloing the base on Nukara... not the outdoor stuff, the BASE, all three levels.)
that may be so, but it is wrong in my opinion...the time it takes people to reach VA is ridiculous short compared to any other MMO. Adding new and harder content to new players is insane! It is overwhelming and frustrating...especiall at the start of a game there shouldn't be any negative experiances. And beeing called a noob, while true, is not very motivating for somebody that played at max 5 hours STO to that point.
let them get to VA by soloing missions...but all missions!
After that the team experiance starts, the real MMO starts. Most other MMO's do it that way, only limited solo focused content for lower levels, the big group content comes at the end.
and srsly, if you can't solo the content on nukara, i mean the advanced missions, you are still a learner or you have gimped your gear extremely.
I used to stay in that cave room and grind the room until i had all objectives of 2 missions multiple times per day...with all classes. Wasn't even that challenging.
Only the hard ones need a grp, but not even a full one.
Note that I specified ALL THREE LEVELS,and I've solo'ed the outdoors portion often enough-all the green and all the yellow missions-but it gets REALLY DULL VERY fast.
The green missions especially-once you know what the AI is going to DO, it's easy to camp-and-kill your way through them, usually completing two or three objectives/missions simultaneously.
and you're still missing the point of intent.
Actually... queue the one for shooting Tholians(i think you have to talk to the interior NPC), then queue all four outside easy and med missions, the purple mission will tick down as you shoot tholians during the easy and med missions the two easy mission can be done simultaneously, the same is true of the two med missions, doing all five is about as time consuming as doing one "real" mission. And yeah, I have managed to successfully solo it.
I really don't understand how anyone can have an entitlement mentality about frankly any aspect of a team they get from a public queue, be it rank, language, use of chat, ability, build, whatever.
Exactly!! If you have that kind of Entitlement mentality then form a premade and then you don't have a problem. If you Que in a public one then you get what you get, and you should be penalized for abandoning them.
Ya' know? I'm one of those guys who regularly gets the objectives on Colony defense while the rest of the team is shooting stuff. I personally do everything I can to make sure that my team gets the most marks possible. Yeah it annoys me when the other guys ignore the objectives. But... Enh... I can live with it.... especially when we're stuck fighting Breen.... Ugh.... I hate them....
And with some quality time in those missions it's not impossible to solo the entire map of Optional objectives too.
Solo engineer or Tactical can also single-handedly win phase 2 of Starbase Incursion and gain access to the Captain by using certain creative tricks.
STF Flight Instructor since Early 2012. Newbies are the reason why STO lives and breathes today. Do not discriminate.
Comments
Want pugs to not suck? Than do your part. Learn the STF's, plenty of links available. Bring the best gear you have, and expect that of everyone else. I am not interested in 30 min KASN runs. Get your head out of your rear end and realize you have 4 other people depending on you...act like you at least care a little about their time and fun.
well it's more about the misinformation spreaded by sollvax generally...this was only one of the more obvious examples. And yes...a VA can easily get MK XII borg gear, and in my opinion those even are the cheapest to get.
Comparing, and even to state that they are equal with TOS weapons is insane and is misguiding newer players.
A puple MK XII stun pistal can be bought from the exchange for less than 100k...and i was nowhere mentioning fleet gear anyway.
i mean i still meet people online that don't know that there is a puprle MKX Kit for each class nearly 4 free, many run around with starter Kits...no wonder so many events fail.
combine this with a weak weapon, which many think is a good choice and in fact is total TRIBBLE, when in fact the top end weapons are insanely easy to obtain.
Thats advice that should be given on the forum...not that all VA's are bad players and elitists, or that captain gear is good enough. That is a massive misinformation campain that leads to bad players at VA level.
So spread the true information not that untrue sehlat TRIBBLE, that TOS weapons are as good as purple MKXII weapons. (again very easy to obtain)
Did you ralize that sollvax even thinks that the scaling is not necessary since lower levels do a better job than VA's in fleet event in his opinion? And certain fleet events should be low level tier only...combined with his general disgust of VA's...which this thread was really inicially started for by him.
the rason why many leave STF's when the optional fails is because they still don't know that the grp loot box cannot contain prototype borg technology...yet they leave, because they think they lost their chance for the set piece. Misinformation is the reason they leave.
Even during fleet events it does not matter if you fail at the end...you get the fleet marks during the mission...so leaving is always a dumb idea anyway. Even if you go on with only 4 or even 3 you get fleet marks out of it.
I have two VA's and one LG, been playing the game since before Season 2. I've been on these forums ever since. I've never run a single STF, hardly ever played PvP. I've read walkthroughs, and posts galore, and yadda, yadda, yadda. But I haven't actually done it -- I've played my own way, mostly solo PvE, and had fun doing it.
I'm in the process of setting up some of my characters for team play now and when I'm satisfied I will jump into a queue occasionally. So beware.
I'm quite sure that most of the people complaining about PUGs would say that I don't know what I'm doing if I ever showed up to play "Infected". They'd be right. I have no experience with it.
They'd see me play, decide I have the "wrong" build, and then they'd assume I'm a VA noob-wonder and unteachable and they'd drop out in frustration. And they'd be wrong.
I am trainable. But if anyone expects me to grind 6 hours of STO a day to get the "right" build and gear, it's not going to happen. I've got better things to do.
Normal people don't spend every moment out of game poring over the forums so they can max out their builds. A lot of 'em probably don't even care these forums exist. And they don't spend hours more tweaking every little thing to get their ship and characters just so. They just want to play the dang game.
Some of them will learn the hard way that they can't casually join an elite STF run and then they'll avoid them and play something else. I say we let them do it. Some of those will decide they want to beat the thing and change the way they play instead. Might take them a few tries to get the hang of it, maybe try a lower difficulty for awhile. And I say we let them do that too.
Since there's no "L33T G4M4RZ" tag that they can put on players so that the game recognizes the STO demigods and separates them from the mortals... put up with inexperienced players or suffer the leaver penalty.
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And seriously? I think you're greatly overstating the ease with which people can get MK12 gear. Besides... Stun pistol? Really? They're cheap because they aren't very good. I'd rather use a Blue Mk10 than a purple Mk12 stun pistol. I just checked the only purple MK12 personal weapons under 100k are either phased Tetryon (decent) or Sonic Antiproton(not very good)
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and stop the grinding
anyone with all MK XII Fleet items has been up to something sneaky (as no one should have that yet)
So you don't want anyone without mk XII Gear in ANY mission so the only way to get it is to pay a scammer??
thank you for that actually...those weapons are ridiculously cheap on the exchange, and even if you are not fighting tholians still good weapons. If you don't use even this weapons in fleet events as a VA, or a RAUH.
Weapons are good (the sonic modifier is only one modifier out of 3, so the weapon is still equal to a rare MKXII) and very very easy to get.
Any VA, that is running around in fleet events with less than rare MKXI and less than MKX rare Kit, has absolutely no idea of this game whatsoever.
The Kit is obtainable via a vendor, or exchange for just a small amount of EC.
This informations have nothing to do with being elitist or "L33T G4M4RZ"...far from it.
doing that would qualify you for some people here already as elitist or even cheater (lol, yeah knowledge is dangerous), but in my opinion thats what everybody should do prior to join an elite STF or any other group content.
I join group content with the intention to give my best, or atleast don't be a burden for the grp...the last i expect from any other person that joins group content, but seeing a person obviously using gimped out gear, and obviously not knowing what to do (multiple injuries, before event starts), I have to ask myself: "what is this person thinking? why is he doing group content? Even if he is new to the game, has he learning disabilities? Can't he google simple things?"
Truth is I have 8 Fed VAs and not all of them have gear of MK10 blue or better. Why not? It's time consuming to get. Some of my guys have awesome stuff, several use a MK11 Jem'Hadar set. Others use random cobbled together bits of whatever they have. All have at least a MK10 weapon but not always great shields and armor.
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srsly...the argument "it's just a game" when discussing whether or not some things in game are better than other and how they can be obtained with little effort, has no validity in this context.
Ofcourse it's only a game, and i couldn't care less if somebody runs around with gimped gear in group content.
But it's generally unpolite and shows little interest in the game (in which you just commented on the forum, this alone shows that you take the more serious than others) if you fly around in a weak setup, when you have the possibility to have better stuff, much better stuff with only little effort.
and again...the sonic weapons are good weapons even against normal mobs (still a rare MKXII)
And they cost nothing, because they can be obtained in just minutes of playing nukara prime. Not because they are generally bad. Same goes for the phased tetryons, atleast on ground.
I only brought up the examples of stun pistols, because the type 2 phasers are stun pistols too, very low DPS (uncommon and rare) and scale only to mk XI...
Back to the "just a game argument"...
I browse the forums anyway nearly everyday before midday...so when i see somebody spreading sehlat TRIBBLE about game stuff, i correct that...with evidence preferably.
And stating that TOS phasers are better or same as purple MKXII, or that those weapons scale to MKXII is just the kind misinformation this game and newer players suffer from.
"I don't need to inform myself because it's just a game!" is kind of a philosophy i don't share, and quite frankly in my opinion is pure ignorance.
At the end you are playing with other people that expect a certain level of interest and enthusiasm to be better or get better. If you feel like, "Oh well my TOS phasers are good enough, i don't need those purple pulsewave" you should stop playing entirely...because the main reason to play (appart from just having a digital barby in star trek uniform) should be to advance your toon and get better at playing. (to many thats the reason they play and they enjoy it, and thats not an elitist mindset)
My crew (which is about 55% male overall incidentally) are PEOPLE
they have realistic body shapes (none of the ladies fall over when they walk)
and getting "better gear" is the opposite of Star Trek (unless you are Ferengi or mirror universe)
It is more in keeping with trek to GIVE a mk XI item to someone than to buy one from them.
ok than...digital ken's with realistic body proportion in your case :P
and spare me this roleplay garbage of what is star trek and what not...
I agree that people should try to do their best.
But the question I have to ask myself is, how many twelve year old kids and under are playing this game? It is F2P. All you need is an email account, right? Do we expect kids to know what they're doing and read the forums?
Same thing for non-English-speaking players, and I know we have those. Their English might not be that good, or they may be able to speak but not read English. If they don't happen to be able to read French or German well, the internationalization won't help much either.
Maybe they are doing their best, and they're handicapped by the language barrier. Maybe they don't have the same opportunity I have to read up.
Now I'm not saying that there aren't other people out there who don't have either excuse for not knowing.
Maybe they unwisely skipped the optional tutorial about elite difficulty and injuries. There's probably also a fair percentage that simply don't care to go outside the game for information. And there's probably a fair percentage of "gold farmers" out there who are just in it to pile up resources they can sell and don't care how well they play as long as they're able to farm.
Believe me, I am not unfamiliar with your frustration. I was in quite a lot of failed runs in CoH with players who joined a PUG because they couldn't solo the mission but played as if they were still soloing. Classic Frostfire scenario -- I got quite sick of running through that one. I couldn't count the team wipes if I used all my fingers and toes, and yours too, and every player in my fleet.
Maybe what STO needs is its' own "Frostfire" -- an early mission part of the main storyline that forces you to join a group to be successful before you hit endgame.
Still, I agree people should be able to beam out at will and I also agree with the penalty for doing it. Because the people still in the mission are also stuck with a penalty whenever someone quits. I understand both sides of that equation.
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1 - TBH since most of the time PUGs people don't know squat about step 2 strategies and are a weight for the team : letting them die and/or deal with guards while you go on your own with stealth is the best way to ensure the 4 saboters will be killed.
When i PUG this mission that's how i usually save the score to 30ish marks.
2 - Sniping is completely illogical if you can't 1 shot an ennemy heavily guarded.
3 - See 1.
4 - People, actually reading chat ? C'mon after 300+ CSE/ISE including many many PUGs i can assure you this is an urban legend, alot don't even have chat window up !
5 - True, those doing that are b****s. There should be a timer + counter before actually leaving group after a beam out, to give time to people still in group to report/blacklist beamers/leechers and increment the counter so they can't creat private matchs and are set as low piority on queues.
Conclusion : solution to avoid troubles is the same than STFs, creat private room and play with players you know and play well with.
And concerning the other debate : no, high end gear is NOT important for this mission, the *only* important thing here is knowledge. Sadly it is only obtained by people willing to get it and learn/listen who are as common as gold nuggets.
Nice diatribe.
It still does not excuse being a leech in the queue, but that's Cryptic's fault for allowing it.
if you don't care, why come back and post here anyway. I can understand that you like to play this game in a more casual fashion, and that you feel kind of jealous about people that have achieved more in this game.
But what you do, is actually dismissing good advices to improve your game, and maybe add to a more sattisfying experiance or be more successfull in general in this game.
My advice is ment for players at the beginning, that take the game not as casual as you do, and maybe want to improve over time.
And nobody needs to play more than 6 hours a week to actually be ontop...1h a day is enough.
And can you comprehend the group of earned and experienced capable players working hard, grumbling the same thing back that why do we have to suffer LESS marks and missions taking sooo long because of this noob TRIBBLE it up? And that happens 99% of the time with PUGS with noobs in it. Do you think we care if the noob heard us grumbling? No we just dump his low butt on ignore.
So your argument is more or less JEALOUSY that a capable team can do what a noob can't. Hence the whole Zeus comment.
It just appear no matter what, that the ones who have earned their place, played their dues played properly and didn't bail are suddenly such Elitist bad guys for doing so now.
Feel free to ignore me anytime.
PS: Sollvax, no need to add your worthless wooden nickel comments.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Well said and my sentiments exactly.
PS: Sollvax, no need to add your worthless wooden nickel comments.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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that may be so, but it is wrong in my opinion...the time it takes people to reach VA is ridiculous short compared to any other MMO. Adding new and harder content to new players is insane! It is overwhelming and frustrating...especiall at the start of a game there shouldn't be any negative experiances. And beeing called a noob, while true, is not very motivating for somebody that played at max 5 hours STO to that point.
let them get to VA by soloing missions...but all missions!
After that the team experiance starts, the real MMO starts. Most other MMO's do it that way, only limited solo focused content for lower levels, the big group content comes at the end.
and srsly, if you can't solo the content on nukara, i mean the advanced missions, you are still a learner or you have gimped your gear extremely.
I used to stay in that cave room and grind the room until i had all objectives of 2 missions multiple times per day...with all classes. Wasn't even that challenging.
Only the hard ones need a grp, but not even a full one.
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Exactly!! If you have that kind of Entitlement mentality then form a premade and then you don't have a problem. If you Que in a public one then you get what you get, and you should be penalized for abandoning them.
And with some quality time in those missions it's not impossible to solo the entire map of Optional objectives too.
Solo engineer or Tactical can also single-handedly win phase 2 of Starbase Incursion and gain access to the Captain by using certain creative tricks.
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