Beam out VA's

sollvax

increasingly in incursion we are seeing VA's see the team and beam out
the team a man down then completes the mission

these VA's should be subject to a leaver penalty (say 2 hours)
its usually the same people doing it

Remember the lowbies WIN after you leave

wilsoncutter001

sollvax wrote: »

increasingly in incursion we are seeing VA's see the team and beam out
the team a man down then completes the mission

these VA's should be subject to a leaver penalty (say 2 hours)
its usually the same people doing it

Remember the lowbies WIN after you leave

^THAT

....and/or the remaining team members should be rewarded at a greater rate for thier efforts.

johnny111971

wilsoncutter001 wrote: »

^THAT

....and/or the remaining team members should be rewarded at a greater rate for thier efforts.

^ and THAT

It is a sad thing, that some people who have reached Level 50 (VA's) tend to think that anyone not a VA is unworthy of their time... the forums are full of differing arguments for what is generally referred to as Leavers and leaver penalties...

I completely agree there needs to be a leaver penalty.. my recommendation is beyond the time penalty, they should also receive a Fleet Mark penalty in cases of leaving Fleet Mark generating missions, and dilithium for leaving those missions (STF's).

Please know that not all VA's do this...

sollvax

No not all


So far it seems to be about 6 specific people (two of them from the same fleet)

marc8219

No. Don't expect us to carry you because you keep rolling new characters instead of playing one of your many VA's Sollvax. You need level 50 to have any chance of getting a decent score (I consider 40+ in incursion during FM event decent) Without level 50 you don't have enough skill points in stealth or in survivabilty skills if you aren't a tac to be useful, and I wouldn't want to risk getting locked out and not having earned enough Fleet marks for my time.

Level your alts doing pvp, mirror events and epsiodes. I am leveling a new character and would not even think of trolling in a fleet event with it. I'll wait until it gets level 50 first, its easy enough anyway.

marc8219

johnny111971 wrote: »

^ and THAT

It is a sad thing, that some people who have reached Level 50 (VA's) tend to think that anyone not a VA is unworthy of their time... the forums are full of differing arguments for what is generally referred to as Leavers and leaver penalties...

I completely agree there needs to be a leaver penalty.. my recommendation is beyond the time penalty, they should also receive a Fleet Mark penalty in cases of leaving Fleet Mark generating missions, and dilithium for leaving those missions (STF's).

Please know that not all VA's do this...

I have learned this from experience, all to often a Fleet event fails in the case of Fleet Alert, or we just get such a horrible score in the others that it was a waste of time but still get locked out for 30 min. Sorry but Fleet mark event is only 2 hours and getting a 30 min lockout without having earned a decent amount of FM to show for it is unacceptable.

Don't blame people for beaming/warping out, blame the devs for not putting lowbies in their own instance.

skhc

So, your solution to potentially having your valuable time wasted by a Captain or Commander in an Incursion (and I say a Captain, because you rarely get more than one), is to beam out and waste the time of four other people? What if you requeue, and get 4 VAs who are as thick as pig**** and your time is wasted anyway?

I really don't understand how anyone can have an entitlement mentality about frankly any aspect of a team they get from a public queue, be it rank, language, use of chat, ability, build, whatever.

sollvax

Starbase defence would NEVER run if it was VA only (not EVER)
Blockade should not be attempted below captain (unless you fly a Flight deck cruiser armed with EXTREME combat pets)
Alert (space) is ok with most ranks and can usually score well (and a 40 is impossible)

Back to Incursion
the highest scores I have seen (including some 40's) were all in instances where
1 no one stealthed , popped drones or security escorts or otherwise messed about in phase 1
2 no one went "sniper mode" in phase 2
3 No one went comms dark and mavericked
4 people understood the concept of "left and right"
5 no one logged out, beamed out or leeched (which incidentally I have NEVER seen from anyone below the rank of VA)

My LOW level guys average 30 marks on a good run (no one logs out) and 25 on a bad one (someone leaves)

Now i do have some solutions

these are all suggestions

1 replace door security with the Tactical officers of the players who accept (or at least some of them)

2 Close the Bloody DOOR to the turbo lift so cowardly types can't hide in there (and they do)

3 Scaled Incursions
Standard (as it is now)
Low Risk (scaled to CAPTAIN ) enemies not to include borg , undine or other extreme versions
VA ONLY (Scaled to VA , gated) enemies to ONLY include Borg , Undine , Breen , Tholian and Q
and "Ultra" Scaled to VA gated to full maco only Deathmatch rules (you die you don't respawn)

4 Serious leecher penalty (someone stands and does NOTHING in any phase he pays a heavy penalty)

5 Even more serious leaver penalty (death by firing squad?? )

6 Close the blast doors on phase 3 until EVERYONE is standing

7 Automatically despawn all Drones and Escorts in phase 1 as they spawn

8 auto enable TEAM and LOCAL chat channels for everyone during mission no disable no hiding it

9 scale down the numbers of Enemies in phase two if someone leaves

10 (and perhaps the silliest) if someone leaves put in that flashing yellow text that appears EVERYWHERE when someone gets a new ship "(persons name) has Deserted his comrades in battle"

wilsoncutter001

marc8219 wrote: »

I have learned this from experience, all to often a Fleet event fails in the case of Fleet Alert, or we just get such a horrible score in the others that it was a waste of time but still get locked out for 30 min. Sorry but Fleet mark event is only 2 hours and getting a 30 min lockout without having earned a decent amount of FM to show for it is unacceptable.

Don't blame people for beaming/warping out, blame the devs for not putting lowbies in their own instance.

There must be something wrong with you....errr I mean your TOON.

If your toon isn't strong enough to carry a couple "lesser" players, you need to check ur build. I rarely score less then 40 during the event, and still manage 30 regularly in off hours. Typicaly I take down half of the targets in the first two rounds myself. Not bragging... just good tactics.

If you are as good as you think you are, you shouldn't need the help. If you want to suggest that it is a team game and you do need the help, then what kind of "team" player are you if you turn tail and run when it looks like it might be a little harder this time?

No, sorry.... it's the luck of the draw. If you don't get a team that measures up to your L33t stature, MAN UP and carry them..... you know, like others carried you when you were first learing the game mechs??

marc8219

wilsoncutter001 wrote: »

There must be something wrong with you....errr I mean your TOON.

If your toon isn't strong enough to carry a couple "lesser" players, you need to check ur build. I rarely score less then 40 during the event, and still manage 30 regularly in off hours. Typicaly I take down half of the targets in the first two rounds myself. Not bragging... just good tactics.

If you are as good as you think you are, you shouldn't need the help. If you want to suggest that it is a team game and you do need the help, then what kind of "team" player are you if you turn tail and run when it looks like it might be a little harder this time?

No, sorry.... it's the luck of the draw. If you don't get a team that measures up to your L33t stature, MAN UP and carry them..... you know, like others carried you when you were first learing the game mechs??

I have managed to carry others before, and can take out all 4 saboteurs on my own in second round using stealth most of the time, but once in awhile ill get unlucky and get killed and only manage to take 3 out, so to make sure we don't lose points still need a few others who can do the job just in case.

sollvax

or don't stealth
communicate with your team
work clockwise
and get all four

p2wsucks

On the issue of calling left & right, imo it's better to just use the colors on the ground that outline each of the 4 areas, eg blue for top right. It's easy to get turned around and the minimap isn't a help on this mission. Also, for part 2 call the area cleared so people don't waste time running into a cleared area, eg blue clear.

ussultimatum

johnny111971 wrote: »

It is a sad thing, that some people who have reached Level 50 (VA's) tend to think that anyone not a VA is unworthy of their time...

The Event calendar forces you to squeeze in as much value as you can in the space of 2 hours for the bonus FMs.

So anyone under VA is already hampering the team's performance, at no penalty to themselves.

There is no excuse in a game that takes about 2 to 3 days to reach max level to be doing this.


The public queues should be separate (privates should be able to do whatever they want so fleets can schedule events for all levels), even something simple as two brackets for 1-30 and a second bracket for 31-50 would suffice.

sollvax

Actually VA's hamper much more then the lowbies

I have Watched (tuesday) the following exchange (corrected for spelling and only approximate as it was not recordable off the screen)

Team spawn in

Team chat message (me) "Hello"

Team chat message (VA liberated borg) "Hi"

Team chat message (VA Human in full maco) "Right Here are your orders , (name 1) se (name 2 ) sw (name 3) ne (name 4 ) nw Im on Centre "

Team chat message (Lt com Vulcan ) "er HI I only know the NE area can i swap?"

Local chat message (Va maco) "NOOOOOB"

Team chat message (Capt human full TOS uniform) "yeah we can swap"

Team message (me) "three seconds"

Team message (VA liberated borg) "Go go go"

Team message ( VA maco) "MOVE OUT MARINES "

a few minutes later (end of phase)

Team message (VA maco) "only 23? you guys SUCK "

FACT he had been revived (by the lt com at least TWICE and had spent his time stood on the crates right of the console in the centre SNIPING )

valarauko43

I was playing my Klingon Lt.Gen. a few minutes ago. I answered the Borg Red Alert in Omega Leonis. I had just hit the space bar to activate my weapons to fire at the first group of enemies nearest the beam in point. Then the game crashed. I am terribly embarrassed and deeply sorry. The only thing I can think of that would have saved me from "leaving" is to have not responded to the hail. I do not know the other players who were there nor did I take the time to see what level they were. I don't judge, and I don't leave because I think they can't hang. I stick it out and if I fail I take it like a warrior. But we were not failing because it had just started. For all I know the other players noticed me disappear and will be calling me all kinds of bad names forever. Again, I apologize.

johnny111971

marc8219 wrote: »

Don't blame people for beaming/warping out, blame the devs for not putting lowbies in their own instance.

I most certainly do blame people for beaming/warping out because;

1) It is an inconvienence to the rest of the players... they have done nothing to hurt you, other than queue for a match that is designed to be open to everyone

and

2) There are options to avoid teams you do not want.

You have TODAY (without a single bit of development, coding, or programming) access to the ability to create private matches. Create you matches with only those people you deem worthy of your time, find or create channels for people such as yourself, who want only to play at a certain level. There is nothing wrong with you doing this, if it increases your enjoyment of the game. Nothing is stopping you from doing this the very next time you login.

If however, you join a public queue for an event that is designed to be open for all player levels... and leave because you don't like the looks of another player (skill or whatnot)... then you deserve to be penalized as a leaver.

It is an avoidable situation for everyone.

marctraiderz

People have been screaming and asking this for ages for both PvE and PvP content, Cryptic is too lazy to abide.

wilsoncutter001

johnny111971 wrote: »

I most certainly do blame people for beaming/warping out because;

1) It is an inconvienence to the rest of the players... they have done nothing to hurt you, other than queue for a match that is designed to be open to everyone

and

2) There are options to avoid teams you do not want.

You have TODAY (without a single bit of development, coding, or programming) access to the ability to create private matches. Create you matches with only those people you deem worthy of your time, find or create channels for people such as yourself, who want only to play at a certain level. There is nothing wrong with you doing this, if it increases your enjoyment of the game. Nothing is stopping you from doing this the very next time you login.

If however, you join a public queue for an event that is designed to be open for all player levels... and leave because you don't like the looks of another player (skill or whatnot)... then you deserve to be penalized as a leaver.

It is an avoidable situation for everyone.

^^^gets it.

johnny111971

ussultimatum wrote: »

The Event calendar forces you to squeeze in as much value as you can in the space of 2 hours for the bonus FMs.

So anyone under VA is already hampering the team's performance, at no penalty to themselves.

There is no excuse in a game that takes about 2 to 3 days to reach max level to be doing this.


The public queues should be separate (privates should be able to do whatever they want so fleets can schedule events for all levels), even something simple as two brackets for 1-30 and a second bracket for 31-50 would suffice.

Ahhh Ulti... ya know I love ya right?

To me this is no different then the ppp channel you and I belong to...

The purpose of the channel was to build a private team for STF's, and mission succeeded... we can pick and choose who belongs to the channel and so on... and thereby avoid the queues, and the randomness that comes from them.

Why should the fleet marks events be any different?

The fleet events work as advertised and intended ... open to all a players regardless of level. The dev's were clear on this...

So instead of as I stated above... I have no problem with anyone that wants to form private matches, or pre-build teams before queuing the team... to get the odds in their favor in regards to skills they want to see in a match... I do this myself. No fuss, No Muss... Nonody is inconvienanced. No one is left at a disadvantage.

robeasom

I'm a VA and would never leave a mission no matter how low the team is or how badly they may be doing. I joined when the game went FTP and since then I have become annoyed at some of the high level players seem to think the new or lower level characters are useless and tend to beam out or leave. I believe leaver penaltys should be applied but also maybe a loss of dilithium or EC as well. As there are people like that who give us VA's a bad name and we were all new players at one time or another and they seem to have forgotten that.

johnny111971

For what its worth, the highest marks I have been awarded in Fleet Alert (Completed), and Starbase Incursion (All phases completed) came from a mixed team.

sollvax

Well said

Sir I salute you

johnny111971

robeasom wrote: »

I'm a VA and would never leave a mission no matter how low the team is or how badly they may be doing. I joined when the game went FTP and since then I have become annoyed at some of the high level players seem to think the new or lower level characters are useless and tend to beam out or leave. I believe leaver penaltys should be applied but also maybe a loss of dilithium or EC as well. As there are people like that who give us VA's a bad name and we were all new players at one time or another and they seem to have forgotten that.

I think the penalty should reflect the event... STF's = - Dilithium, Fleet Marks Missions = - Fleet Marks... I advocate them even being able to go into the negative.

ussultimatum

patrickngo wrote: »

Level=/=ability.

Your post is mostly a bunch of anecdotes.

A bad player in a VA ship or with VA kit and gear still has more abilities than a bad player who has a T1 ship or a T1 kit.


You do not, in arguments of this kind, get to automatically assume that all VAs are braindead sub-human mutants and yet all L7 PUGs are miraculously some jedi-master super ninja at the keyboard.

No, you reduce all things to being equal.

All things being equal, VA equipment brings more potential (healing, damage, etc) than low level equipment, this is unarguable.

sollvax

only if the VA uses it
and doesn't stand there with his head in his hands going "oh no a team of people who are only 80% as powerful as me I weep I weep"

and when did you last see a VA HEAL someone ?

johnny111971

sollvax wrote: »

only if the VA uses it
and doesn't stand there with his head in his hands going "oh no a team of people who are only 80% as powerful as me I weep I weep"

and when did you last see a VA HEAL someone ?

Last mission I was in.

sollvax

Really?
Wow

i almost never see it (but then I rarely see Science VA's)

markhawkman

sollvax wrote: »

only if the VA uses it
and doesn't stand there with his head in his hands going "oh no a team of people who are only 80% as powerful as me I weep I weep"

and when did you last see a VA HEAL someone ?

The last time I used Triage.... which was a few months ago. I often use medical generators as Eng, but I've dicovered that actual healing powers don't work as well as you'd think.

ussultimatum

johnny111971 wrote: »

Why should the fleet marks events be any different?

The fleet events work as advertised and intended ... open to all a players regardless of level. The dev's were clear on this...

They sure were.

And then they clearly did not add a leaver penalty, so perhaps they understood that people will want to abandon terrible teams to their fate.