i almost never see it (but then I rarely see Science VA's)
Thats because, to most, DPS is King... which I am not a particular fan of... but no need to go into it here... lots of other threads cover this subject.
Abilities and Potential abilities only matter if they are USED. Goes back to the old saw about the valedictorian driving the taxi while the guy at the bottom of the class is running a multinational-Potentially, a VA has more to offer a team than a Lt. but only if he/she is actually willing to USE that potential-otherwise known as the guy who contributes is useful, the guy who doesn't , is useless, no matter HOW much potential ability he's sitting on. a Pretty Stat-stack is of zero value if it's hiding in the turbolift or 'not spawning' through phase 2 of Incursion (and most of 3) only to show up AFTER the enemy Captain's already left the building and most of the shooting is over and done with.
and sure as hell, he's not worth anything if he's bailed out already. The Lt. who's "in use'' is FAR more valuable to the team than a VA who's sulking in his tent like Achilles.
Note that NOT all Vice Admirals act like that, but some do, and frankly, their defense of such behaviour disgusts me.
This ^
Sollvax's OP, I think, has some merit.
My wingman and I have seen a slew of leavers recently. I'd guess, at least one in three matches, surprisingly enough. (we both only do fleet mark stuff on VA/LG's, for the record).
A penalty would be nice. Only because, as has been stated, the leaver did LESS for the team than a "lowbie".
And kudos to marc8219. 40+ in a pug is impressive. Best one I've had was somewhere around 36-37.
Blockade should not be attempted below captain (unless you fly a Flight deck cruiser armed with EXTREME combat pets)
I've never understood attack pets in blockade.
Why not use shield repair drones and make life easier?
Or, if in a carrier, you won't even have to fire a shot while your freighter warps out with full hull and shields. (using TSS and HE)
I think a lot of people still don't realize that it's about finesse, not strength.
Just easier :cool:
Also, ran Blockade with a lvl 30-something in a Peregrine.
Contributed nothing (besides a high death count).
People that troll like that should get a penalty too, regardless of level :P
It's me, Chrome. [Join Date: May 2009]
"Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~
I admit a very few times I have left an incursion zone, but only for 1 reason, I'm the only one in the first section bothering to actually find and kill saboteurs while EVERYONE else is going around shooting guards and turrets - Why should I do all the work while 4 others can't be bothered to read whats on their journal window to the right of the screen? In those occasions I don't care what happens to those 4 people, I'm not there to carry them in the first section of the zone. A lock out only does one thing and that's excludes 1 man fleets from having a chance at completing their daily grind to get their starbases leveled.
I used to ask politely at the beginning of the zone before section 1 starts if people could focus on killing the saboteurs, right up until someone decided that my nice use of please and thank you was a direct insult to them and that i should stfu - guess which team member died the most and shot the most turrets..
Abilities and Potential abilities only matter if they are USED. Goes back to the old saw about the valedictorian driving the taxi while the guy at the bottom of the class is running a multinational-Potentially, a VA has more to offer a team than a Lt. but only if he/she is actually willing to USE that potential-otherwise known as the guy who contributes is useful, the guy who doesn't , is useless, no matter HOW much potential ability he's sitting on. a Pretty Stat-stack is of zero value if it's hiding in the turbolift or 'not spawning' through phase 2 of Incursion (and most of 3) only to show up AFTER the enemy Captain's already left the building and most of the shooting is over and done with.
and sure as hell, he's not worth anything if he's bailed out already. The Lt. who's "in use'' is FAR more valuable to the team than a VA who's sulking in his tent like Achilles.
Note that NOT all Vice Admirals act like that, but some do, and frankly, their defense of such behaviour disgusts me.
^ This
Interesting event last night... after leaving this thread to attend a fleet marks events with some fleet members, we got to talking about this very thing (well more specifically Leavers in general).
One of the the fleeties, was advocating for leaving without penalty for the exact same "justifications" given here. Obviously, he and I were not seeing eye to eye on the subject.
None the less, I took a deep breath and we headed in to a Blockade... we had 4 fleet members, so I queued us as a team (3 VA's and a RA 43)... we get in... and the pick-up player left within before the timer wound down to actually start the mission (I assume, he info'd each of us there, to check our rank/ship), decided we weren't worth his time... and warped out.
My believe in leaving friend, went on a tyrade about being left. I remained quite, and we completed the mission... didn't do half bad, but could have done better with a 5th ship. We exit the mission, and he continues to express his disbelief that the person left. My comment on the subject was "sucks to be left doesn't it"... he changed his tune pretty quickly... He then realized, that the 4 of us were disadvantaged by 1 single leaver. And as the quoted poster points out... that RALH did us a lot more good than the person who left... because he, at least, was there.
I think it's extremely safe to say that you missed the entire point of the post that you decided to take an excerpt from.
The snippet I pulled is pertinent to the conversation. VA's have "more to offer" IF THEY STAY. And following up with that, a VA having "more to offer" hurts that much more when they decide to randomly leave.
I'll take a newbie over someone that pulls a Cartman: "TRIBBLE you guys, I'm going home." At least the newbie will be there shooting at things in between respawns, rather than spontaneously leaving the team a valuable man short.
Anyhow, the solution would be for Cryptic to fine-tune the fleet missions to be accomplished by three people (with the exception of Defense, I'll leave ranting about that to another thread). Given that for whatever lack of logic, they've decided not to level-gate the events.
This would allow for the standard PUG to complete them, given that each Event seems to have one well-meaning, but ill-prepared newbie who spends most of the time respawning and one person who rage-quits when they see aforementioned newbie on the team.
__________________________________________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I weary of the chase. Wait for me. I shall be merciful and quick."
I beamed out only once in an incursion. That was when 3 people happened always to be together in the same quadrant. I tried to leave, a few seconds later the same group was with me in the quadrand as they were probably all running counter clockwise through the area.
I suggested that it would be far more efficient if we would split up and only one person would patrol a quadrant. The reply was that STO not my personal game and I should shut up.
Phase one timer was almost up we had barely 10 saboteurs and I decided that these guys are not worth the effort, so I let them fail. *shrug*
1 Turrets do not count for your score
2 Turrets do count for an accolade (which some people are going for)
3 it takes on average 5 seconds to take one out with a hand phaser
My view is that if not taken out the bloody things can crossfire you (Flank you) while you deal with sabs
Also that ranging guards are false targets (you see a shadow and move to engage )
So if i pass one I take him out (normally at a dead run)
Turrets can be casually removed while you search
Weaker characters (no armour or weaker shields) can not ignore this stuff its the duty of the strong to protect the weak
Sadly, the fact is, in time-gated missions, most lower level characters (captain and below) aren't going to be able to contribute enough DPS/DAMAGE to win the match or to get all the objectives. This isn't a VA's fault; they just see it for what it is.
This is more Cryptic's fault. THEY need to level gate the mission or make it rank-gated a la Starbase 24.
Take out the turrets - always. They will encourage respawn and they reduce enemy chatter when destroyed.
Except far too many people I've seen have run right past a saboteur, which is right in front of them to go shoot turrets. also the audio cues i hear through my head set help me find saboteurs more easily, but having another one play for when the turret is beamed in doesn't help.
Sadly, the fact is, in time-gated missions, most lower level characters (captain and below) aren't going to be able to contribute enough DPS/DAMAGE to win the match or to get all the objectives. This isn't a VA's fault; they just see it for what it is.
This is more Cryptic's fault. THEY need to level gate the mission or make it rank-gated a la Starbase 24.
Yeah, they really do need to do that for at least the Fleet missions. Unfortunately I only realized this after jumping into a blockade action with my then-Lieutenant Commander. Oh sure I gave it my all and made myself the best distraction I could to keep those Orions off the transports, but I'd be lying if I said I was doing near as good as with my science VA. I'm just glad none of the VAs in that match decided to leave and that we still kicked TRIBBLE.
Admiral Katrina Tokareva - U.S.S. Cosmos, Yorktown-class Star Cruiser Admiral Dananra Lekall - R.R.W. Teverresh, Deihu-class Warbird General J'Kar son of K'tsulan - I.K.S. Dlahath, Vo'devwl-class Carrier
Incursion strictly Commanders downwards
Fleet alert open to all
Blockade RA and above
starbase defence captains and downwards
STF normals captains and RA's
STF elites RA and Up
Starbase 24 captains and down
Gorn minefield captains and down
Mirror incursion Commanders and down
Breaking the planet commanders and up
Temple commanders and Captains
Then limit nukara to VA's
Defera to VA's
And everythings fixed
of course you could privately queue for any of these with a team of friends
Abilities and Potential abilities only matter if they are USED.
A T5 Cruiser that just uses Auto-attack with BFAW and 8 beams and DOES NOTHING ELSE, still brings more than a T1 Cruiser with 3 beam arrays and 1 tactical power.
Again, if you want to have a discussion you need to discuss all things being equal and not this silly argument.
...My comment on the subject was "sucks to be left doesn't it"... he changed his tune pretty quickly... He then realized, that the 4 of us were disadvantaged by 1 single leaver. And as the quoted poster points out... that RALH did us a lot more good than the person who left... because he, at least, was there.
Couple points.
1) A RALH is actually useful, it's not some joke of a T1 or T2 ship with 3 starter beam arrays, maybe a copy of TT or BFAW, maybe 1 copy of EPTS 1.
2) You, and your man-down team, could have left and rejoined the queue at no penalty. Maybe you would have lost 2 minutes.
The only disadvantage to you was that you felt you had to complete the mission disadvantaged when nothing in the game prevented you from starting a completely fresh instance, while losing about 2 minutes of time.
The snippet I pulled is pertinent to the conversation. VA's have "more to offer" IF THEY STAY. And following up with that, a VA having "more to offer" hurts that much more when they decide to randomly leave.
And a T1 never has more to offer.
Ever.
They are a permanent drain on the team, they can barely keep themselves alive.
They don't have enough weapons, enough skill ranks, enough boff powers, no consoles of any value.
Their gear will generally be a mess of stuff they have happened across in their journey levelling all the way to the prestigious level of 7.
Leaving the team short, as I mentioned above would be an issue if there was actually an in-game consequence.
It's all make-believe.
The starbase isn't real, no one is really going to die on the starbase.
You can all leave, and restart within minutes and probably gain more time then some team that insists on dragging a couple of XP/fleet mark leeches.
Leeches.
That's what most of them are.
Just like PvP afk dilithium farming, or STF leeches who join and do nothing.
Would you condone any of that?
I do not now, never have and never will, condone leeching in any form.
I will continue to abandon leechers and ridicule leeching as an acceptable practice.
Thinking that it is not leeching, is just a misguided sense of altruism.
as a MAJORITY of mission groups contain only 1 or 2 VA's (excluding STF )
if both of them sit there typing "work for it losers" then the LT Com is worht more than both of them
I'm just glad none of the VAs in that match decided to leave and that we still kicked TRIBBLE.
If you still kicked TRIBBLE... and the VA's didn't leave... I fail to see why the system needs to change... again, the system was designed for all ranks to fight together..
Incursion strictly Commanders downwards
Fleet alert open to all
Blockade RA and above
starbase defence captains and downwards
STF normals captains and RA's
STF elites RA and Up
Starbase 24 captains and down
Gorn minefield captains and down
Mirror incursion Commanders and down
Breaking the planet commanders and up
Temple commanders and Captains
Then limit nukara to VA's
Defera to VA's
And everythings fixed
of course you could privately queue for any of these with a team of friends
Or leave the system as it is, and private queue with just the ranks you want to do the mission with... no development... no changes... no fuss.. no muss
1) A RALH is actually useful, it's not some joke of a T1 or T2 ship with 3 starter beam arrays, maybe a copy of TT or BFAW, maybe 1 copy of EPTS 1.
2) You, and your man-down team, could have left and rejoined the queue at no penalty. Maybe you would have lost 2 minutes.
The only disadvantage to you was that you felt you had to complete the mission disadvantaged when nothing in the game prevented you from starting a completely fresh instance, while losing about 2 minutes of time.
1) Yes, he was useful... and so would have the VA who dumped would have been.
2) I understand your point, but I don't join missions to quit them... can I... sure... and maybe the next team doesn't have a leaver... or maybe it will. I have to queue again because someone left that mission too. Maybe that Captain 30 is trying his best.. and maybe he will have many teams that dump on him... Mine will not be one of them.
No thanks... I'll stick with the mission, and complete it to the best of my ability.
2) I understand your point, but I don't join missions to quit them... can I... sure... and maybe the next team doesn't have a leaver... or maybe it will. I have to queue again because someone left that mission too. Maybe that Captain 30 is trying his best.. and maybe he will have many teams that dump on him... Mine will not be one of them.
Maybe that Captain 30 is just there for a free lunch, fast xp and fleet marks.
I'm not sure why "leavers" are a problem but "leeches" are not.
Funny story.
Last night I decided to take your words to heart (yours, and yours alone).
I stuck it out with a team that only had 1 lowbie, L23 captain, T3 ship.
I watched him die, maybe 5 or 6 times? While contributing very little.
The best part, is that Captain Spacedust earns the same fleet marks at the end as the rest of us do - while we're basically pulling extra weight for someone that might as well not even be there.
It's bad enough when good players like yourself have to pull weight for bad players, much less bad players in lowbie ships leeching XP & Fleet Marks.
Irrelevent? No it isn't. Doing a mission with a leecher as a handicap is FAR worse than having an ensign player as a handicap.
If you are an ensign player on a team of VAs, you are effectively leeching whether or not that was your intent through the simple lack of available options and overall lack of capabilities you have.
> No skill ranks allotted in most skills (many of which increase powers up to 50% extra effectiveness)
> Generally poor weapons.
> Few to no real boosts from weak consoles and limited console stations.
> Very few actual Captain skills available.
> Fewer weapons on ship.
> Weaker gear for your ship.
> Limited BOFF powers available, and limited to only low tier powers.
No matter how much effort you give, you would have brought more to the team in a higher level, especially level capped, ship.
If you are an ensign player on a team of VAs, you are effectively leeching whether or not that was your intent through the simple lack of available options and overall lack of capabilities you have.
firstly an ensign character CAN'T enter fleet missions
but even if he could he is still worth more than the VA who logged out
>
No skill ranks allotted in most skills (many of which increase powers up to 50% extra effectiveness)
as opposed to skills which make things HARDER (like threat control)
>
Generally poor weapons.
scaled to be equal to your VA weapons (and better than some of them)
> Few to no real boosts from weak consoles and limited console stations.
>
As opposed to useless pay to lose consoles which are only any good in pvp??
Very few actual Captain skills available.
so?
you VA types never use them
> Fewer weapons on ship.
a weapon being used worth several NOT being used
#
> Weaker gear for your ship.
but being USED
> Limited BOFF powers available, and limited to only low tier powers.
some of which are the most important in these missions (Engineering team)
No matter how much effort you give, you would have brought more to the team in a higher level, especially level capped, ship.
yeah level capped to VA right ??
ok
you wait upwards of Two hours for a fleet alert to fill
then you fly out
your mission team of five VA's
check each other out??
Hey that guys not flying an escort
EVERYONE quits
or Hey that Gal isn't a TAC
Everyone quits
or suppose you actually Do get started
well one of them goes AFK at once
Another one has a rainbow cannon defiant
and a third is a griefer
meanwhile another instance a team of 1 cap 1 lt com 2 lts and a RA has gained 20 fleet marks and is laughing at you
Maybe that Captain 30 is just there for a free lunch, fast xp and fleet marks.
I'm not sure why "leavers" are a problem but "leeches" are not.
If referring to AFK... I agree they are a problem... but if Cap 30 is actively trying to contribute, I have no problem with him/her... heck, could turn into a great VA one day...
Funny story.
Last night I decided to take your words to heart (yours, and yours alone).
I stuck it out with a team that only had 1 lowbie, L23 captain, T3 ship.
I watched him die, maybe 5 or 6 times? While contributing very little.
The best part, is that Captain Spacedust earns the same fleet marks at the end as the rest of us do - while we're basically pulling extra weight for someone that might as well not even be there.
It's bad enough when good players like yourself have to pull weight for bad players, much less bad players in lowbie ships leeching XP & Fleet Marks.
First, thank you for trying...
How did the team do, comparatively? Did you earn significantly fewer fleet marks? See, thats my sticking point on leavers. I've been in teams with Commanders and such, and scored approximately the same fleet marks (or the difference wasnt great enough for me to notice, or care too much about). But what I do notice with leavers is that I end up completing less <whatever goal... rescued freighters in blockade, sabs in incursion, etc>, and get a fleet mark decrease that I notice.
If he was trying, I just dont see that as leeching. If he just sits there, does nothing... goes afk... then yes, that's leeching (in my opinion)... but i've seen plenty of VA's do that. So as long as Captain Stardust tried... he's welcome to go with me anytime.
Sure is it easier with 5 VA's, absolutely... i'd never argue that point... and faster. But it isnt even all that difficult with LT Com, Commander, Captain, RA's in the mix...
as opposed to skills which make things HARDER (like threat control)
I really don't think you understand this particular skill... it has some excellent, and welcomed benefits.
so?
you VA types never use them
I generally don't see this (and I can certainly tell you, Ulti has pulled me back from the brink on more than 1 occassion)... with the exception of those not used to team dynamic play... where their focus is completely on keeping themselves alive. Frankly STO doesn't do a good job at fostering team play, and team dynamics.
Edit: For that matter, not many fleets do this well either. Too many are concerned with just pure numbers of people grinding, and forgot that the game is about having fun.
you wait upwards of Two hours for a fleet alert to fill
then you fly out
your mission team of five VA's
check each other out??
Hey that guys not flying an escort
EVERYONE quits
or Hey that Gal isn't a TAC
Everyone quits
or suppose you actually Do get started
well one of them goes AFK at once
Another one has a rainbow cannon defiant
and a third is a griefer
meanwhile another instance a team of 1 cap 1 lt com 2 lts and a RA has gained 20 fleet marks and is laughing at you
Ok, so I've gone to extremes to make points, but this takes the cake...
Seriously, there are times I think about switching sides if I find myself on the same side of an argument as you. I think you may be a mole, here to cause more people to go to the other side, and support leaving matches.
Comments
Thats because, to most, DPS is King... which I am not a particular fan of... but no need to go into it here... lots of other threads cover this subject.
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Which does nothing whatsoever if they're a nerd-raging QQ'r.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I weary of the chase. Wait for me. I shall be merciful and quick."
I think it's extremely safe to say that you missed the entire point of the post that you decided to take an excerpt from.
This ^
Sollvax's OP, I think, has some merit.
My wingman and I have seen a slew of leavers recently. I'd guess, at least one in three matches, surprisingly enough. (we both only do fleet mark stuff on VA/LG's, for the record).
A penalty would be nice. Only because, as has been stated, the leaver did LESS for the team than a "lowbie".
And kudos to marc8219. 40+ in a pug is impressive. Best one I've had was somewhere around 36-37.
I do. Regularly. My science captains are all medics on ground.
My Eng has shield recharge (and equip diag). And I use them.
I've never understood attack pets in blockade.
Why not use shield repair drones and make life easier?
Or, if in a carrier, you won't even have to fire a shot while your freighter warps out with full hull and shields. (using TSS and HE)
I think a lot of people still don't realize that it's about finesse, not strength.
Just easier :cool:
Also, ran Blockade with a lvl 30-something in a Peregrine.
Contributed nothing (besides a high death count).
People that troll like that should get a penalty too, regardless of level :P
It's me, Chrome. [Join Date: May 2009]
"Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~
I used to ask politely at the beginning of the zone before section 1 starts if people could focus on killing the saboteurs, right up until someone decided that my nice use of please and thank you was a direct insult to them and that i should stfu - guess which team member died the most and shot the most turrets..
^ This
Interesting event last night... after leaving this thread to attend a fleet marks events with some fleet members, we got to talking about this very thing (well more specifically Leavers in general).
One of the the fleeties, was advocating for leaving without penalty for the exact same "justifications" given here. Obviously, he and I were not seeing eye to eye on the subject.
None the less, I took a deep breath and we headed in to a Blockade... we had 4 fleet members, so I queued us as a team (3 VA's and a RA 43)... we get in... and the pick-up player left within before the timer wound down to actually start the mission (I assume, he info'd each of us there, to check our rank/ship), decided we weren't worth his time... and warped out.
My believe in leaving friend, went on a tyrade about being left. I remained quite, and we completed the mission... didn't do half bad, but could have done better with a 5th ship. We exit the mission, and he continues to express his disbelief that the person left. My comment on the subject was "sucks to be left doesn't it"... he changed his tune pretty quickly... He then realized, that the 4 of us were disadvantaged by 1 single leaver. And as the quoted poster points out... that RALH did us a lot more good than the person who left... because he, at least, was there.
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
The snippet I pulled is pertinent to the conversation. VA's have "more to offer" IF THEY STAY. And following up with that, a VA having "more to offer" hurts that much more when they decide to randomly leave.
I'll take a newbie over someone that pulls a Cartman: "TRIBBLE you guys, I'm going home." At least the newbie will be there shooting at things in between respawns, rather than spontaneously leaving the team a valuable man short.
Anyhow, the solution would be for Cryptic to fine-tune the fleet missions to be accomplished by three people (with the exception of Defense, I'll leave ranting about that to another thread). Given that for whatever lack of logic, they've decided not to level-gate the events.
This would allow for the standard PUG to complete them, given that each Event seems to have one well-meaning, but ill-prepared newbie who spends most of the time respawning and one person who rage-quits when they see aforementioned newbie on the team.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I weary of the chase. Wait for me. I shall be merciful and quick."
I suggested that it would be far more efficient if we would split up and only one person would patrol a quadrant. The reply was that STO not my personal game and I should shut up.
Phase one timer was almost up we had barely 10 saboteurs and I decided that these guys are not worth the effort, so I let them fail. *shrug*
there are three main views on this
1 ignore them entirely
2 take them out as you pass if convienient
3 code 14 (terminate on sight)
now the Facts
1 Turrets do not count for your score
2 Turrets do count for an accolade (which some people are going for)
3 it takes on average 5 seconds to take one out with a hand phaser
My view is that if not taken out the bloody things can crossfire you (Flank you) while you deal with sabs
Also that ranging guards are false targets (you see a shadow and move to engage )
So if i pass one I take him out (normally at a dead run)
Turrets can be casually removed while you search
Weaker characters (no armour or weaker shields) can not ignore this stuff its the duty of the strong to protect the weak
This is more Cryptic's fault. THEY need to level gate the mission or make it rank-gated a la Starbase 24.
Take out the turrets - always. They will encourage respawn and they reduce enemy chatter when destroyed.
Except far too many people I've seen have run right past a saboteur, which is right in front of them to go shoot turrets. also the audio cues i hear through my head set help me find saboteurs more easily, but having another one play for when the turret is beamed in doesn't help.
Yeah, they really do need to do that for at least the Fleet missions. Unfortunately I only realized this after jumping into a blockade action with my then-Lieutenant Commander. Oh sure I gave it my all and made myself the best distraction I could to keep those Orions off the transports, but I'd be lying if I said I was doing near as good as with my science VA. I'm just glad none of the VAs in that match decided to leave and that we still kicked TRIBBLE.
Admiral Dananra Lekall - R.R.W. Teverresh, Deihu-class Warbird
General J'Kar son of K'tsulan - I.K.S. Dlahath, Vo'devwl-class Carrier
Incursion strictly Commanders downwards
Fleet alert open to all
Blockade RA and above
starbase defence captains and downwards
STF normals captains and RA's
STF elites RA and Up
Starbase 24 captains and down
Gorn minefield captains and down
Mirror incursion Commanders and down
Breaking the planet commanders and up
Temple commanders and Captains
Then limit nukara to VA's
Defera to VA's
And everythings fixed
of course you could privately queue for any of these with a team of friends
A T5 Cruiser that just uses Auto-attack with BFAW and 8 beams and DOES NOTHING ELSE, still brings more than a T1 Cruiser with 3 beam arrays and 1 tactical power.
Again, if you want to have a discussion you need to discuss all things being equal and not this silly argument.
Couple points.
1) A RALH is actually useful, it's not some joke of a T1 or T2 ship with 3 starter beam arrays, maybe a copy of TT or BFAW, maybe 1 copy of EPTS 1.
2) You, and your man-down team, could have left and rejoined the queue at no penalty. Maybe you would have lost 2 minutes.
The only disadvantage to you was that you felt you had to complete the mission disadvantaged when nothing in the game prevented you from starting a completely fresh instance, while losing about 2 minutes of time.
And a T1 never has more to offer.
Ever.
They are a permanent drain on the team, they can barely keep themselves alive.
They don't have enough weapons, enough skill ranks, enough boff powers, no consoles of any value.
Their gear will generally be a mess of stuff they have happened across in their journey levelling all the way to the prestigious level of 7.
Leaving the team short, as I mentioned above would be an issue if there was actually an in-game consequence.
It's all make-believe.
The starbase isn't real, no one is really going to die on the starbase.
You can all leave, and restart within minutes and probably gain more time then some team that insists on dragging a couple of XP/fleet mark leeches.
Leeches.
That's what most of them are.
Just like PvP afk dilithium farming, or STF leeches who join and do nothing.
Would you condone any of that?
I do not now, never have and never will, condone leeching in any form.
I will continue to abandon leechers and ridicule leeching as an acceptable practice.
Thinking that it is not leeching, is just a misguided sense of altruism.
a LT Com Fighting is worth a VA who is on autofire or doesn't target turrets or guards
Thank you for this obvious and utterly useless observation.
Let's continue:
A T1 fighting is worth 1000 VAs who don't turn the game on!!! Wooo!!
Irrelevant information is irrelevant.
if both of them sit there typing "work for it losers" then the LT Com is worht more than both of them
If you still kicked TRIBBLE... and the VA's didn't leave... I fail to see why the system needs to change... again, the system was designed for all ranks to fight together..
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Or leave the system as it is, and private queue with just the ranks you want to do the mission with... no development... no changes... no fuss.. no muss
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
1) Yes, he was useful... and so would have the VA who dumped would have been.
2) I understand your point, but I don't join missions to quit them... can I... sure... and maybe the next team doesn't have a leaver... or maybe it will. I have to queue again because someone left that mission too. Maybe that Captain 30 is trying his best.. and maybe he will have many teams that dump on him... Mine will not be one of them.
No thanks... I'll stick with the mission, and complete it to the best of my ability.
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Maybe that Captain 30 is just there for a free lunch, fast xp and fleet marks.
I'm not sure why "leavers" are a problem but "leeches" are not.
Funny story.
Last night I decided to take your words to heart (yours, and yours alone).
I stuck it out with a team that only had 1 lowbie, L23 captain, T3 ship.
I watched him die, maybe 5 or 6 times? While contributing very little.
The best part, is that Captain Spacedust earns the same fleet marks at the end as the rest of us do - while we're basically pulling extra weight for someone that might as well not even be there.
It's bad enough when good players like yourself have to pull weight for bad players, much less bad players in lowbie ships leeching XP & Fleet Marks.
you don't like it ??
Stay in nukara
My character Tsin'xing
If you are an ensign player on a team of VAs, you are effectively leeching whether or not that was your intent through the simple lack of available options and overall lack of capabilities you have.
> No skill ranks allotted in most skills (many of which increase powers up to 50% extra effectiveness)
> Generally poor weapons.
> Few to no real boosts from weak consoles and limited console stations.
> Very few actual Captain skills available.
> Fewer weapons on ship.
> Weaker gear for your ship.
> Limited BOFF powers available, and limited to only low tier powers.
No matter how much effort you give, you would have brought more to the team in a higher level, especially level capped, ship.
firstly an ensign character CAN'T enter fleet missions
but even if he could he is still worth more than the VA who logged out
>
as opposed to skills which make things HARDER (like threat control)
>
scaled to be equal to your VA weapons (and better than some of them)
>
As opposed to useless pay to lose consoles which are only any good in pvp??
so?
you VA types never use them
a weapon being used worth several NOT being used
#
but being USED
some of which are the most important in these missions (Engineering team)
yeah level capped to VA right ??
ok
you wait upwards of Two hours for a fleet alert to fill
then you fly out
your mission team of five VA's
check each other out??
Hey that guys not flying an escort
EVERYONE quits
or Hey that Gal isn't a TAC
Everyone quits
or suppose you actually Do get started
well one of them goes AFK at once
Another one has a rainbow cannon defiant
and a third is a griefer
meanwhile another instance a team of 1 cap 1 lt com 2 lts and a RA has gained 20 fleet marks and is laughing at you
If referring to AFK... I agree they are a problem... but if Cap 30 is actively trying to contribute, I have no problem with him/her... heck, could turn into a great VA one day...
First, thank you for trying...
How did the team do, comparatively? Did you earn significantly fewer fleet marks? See, thats my sticking point on leavers. I've been in teams with Commanders and such, and scored approximately the same fleet marks (or the difference wasnt great enough for me to notice, or care too much about). But what I do notice with leavers is that I end up completing less <whatever goal... rescued freighters in blockade, sabs in incursion, etc>, and get a fleet mark decrease that I notice.
If he was trying, I just dont see that as leeching. If he just sits there, does nothing... goes afk... then yes, that's leeching (in my opinion)... but i've seen plenty of VA's do that. So as long as Captain Stardust tried... he's welcome to go with me anytime.
Sure is it easier with 5 VA's, absolutely... i'd never argue that point... and faster. But it isnt even all that difficult with LT Com, Commander, Captain, RA's in the mix...
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
I really don't think you understand this particular skill... it has some excellent, and welcomed benefits.
I generally don't see this (and I can certainly tell you, Ulti has pulled me back from the brink on more than 1 occassion)... with the exception of those not used to team dynamic play... where their focus is completely on keeping themselves alive. Frankly STO doesn't do a good job at fostering team play, and team dynamics.
Edit: For that matter, not many fleets do this well either. Too many are concerned with just pure numbers of people grinding, and forgot that the game is about having fun.
Ok, so I've gone to extremes to make points, but this takes the cake...
Seriously, there are times I think about switching sides if I find myself on the same side of an argument as you. I think you may be a mole, here to cause more people to go to the other side, and support leaving matches.
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....