Geeze, nobody even bothered to look at the wiki? IT SAYS WHICH EPISODES (YES, TWO) OF ENTERPRISE SUPPORT THIS CLAIM!
They turned these to face individuals with whom they interacted, which suggested they had some sort of information-gathering organ(s). Tholians were hermaphroditic: they had two sexes, but each individual had both sets of sexual organs. (ENT: "In a Mirror, Darkly", "Bound")
As for the Xindi-Insectoid: Yes, they are Asexual.
They were genderless and reproduced asexually. Also, because of their insectoid nature and the shortness of their life span, they were strongly concerned over the survival of their offspring. They protected their young by making a hatchery brig attached to their ships and shielded it in case of danger, even at the expense of the ship's life support system. Each individual was able to produce large clusters of eggs.
The eggs could not survive out of the ship and were equipped with a gland capable of producing a powerful and subtle neurotoxin. If an unexpected presence was detected in the vicinity of the eggs, the clusters would spray the substance on the intruder, causing (in the latter) an instinctive, obsessive interest in protecting and nurturing the hatchling. (ENT: "Hatchery")
However, some people in this thread are applying an insane amount of Troll Logic to define a race of hermaphroditic and asexual Starfish Aliens (non-humanoid in appearance) as "Male" and "Female", respectively. Stop trying to apply the human definition of gender to a fictional race. Try actually looking at them as their own genders.
What about the Undine, huh? Voyager established that they actually have FIVE genders in their race. Are you going to just simplify them into male and female too?
"My frozen dairy-based confectionery attracts all the males of the species to the facilities. They all agree on it's superiority. Indeed, it is superior to yours. I could teach you the finer details but that would require monetary recompense on your part." -The Milkshake Song: Vulcan Edition
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
What about the Undine, huh? Voyager established that they actually have FIVE genders in their race. Are you going to just simplify them into male and female too?
so everytime they go to make a baby it's an orgy... nice
This can all be summed up by an excerpt from my Foundry mission "The Other Academy";
Ensign Parker: You know I never use the bathroom, since I had the portable transporter device installed in my lower colon. So last night I took this hot alien out on a date.
Lieutenant Black: What was her name do I know her?
Ensign Parker: Her name? I don't think their species has a gender...
Andorians have four rigellians six (i think)
Aliens should have an option to be sexless (or at least not have TRIBBLE)
most species on earth are not mammal you know
HOWEVER, asexual reproduction DOES NOT equate to a lack of gender, and I don't personally know a single insect that actually lacks gender. Many do or can reproduce asexually, but those are in fact female as they reproduce via parthenogenesis.
I don't know whether the Insectoids being genderless was ever introduced into canon via Enterprise, or whether some wiki writer decided that since the reproduced asexually that they must be asexual themselves (a common, if incorrect, assumption) but either way I think it's likely just a product of assumptions and poor science.
I would go with this.
In the very same episode where Tholians are revealed as asexually reproducing, a Tholian makes an insult directed at Archer's maternal ancestor.
Gender is how we identify. It's entirely possible to be male gendered in a species with only one unified physical sex if they have a cultural concept of gender.
And I agree here... Not only is the idea of a Tholian turncoat just odd in itself (Normally, I am the first to stand up against the stereotype of an species... but COME ON!!) But there is also the idea of the Tholian's natural demon class environment. So, they would have to live their entire shifts in pressure EVA suits, and have a compartment airlocked, stripped down, and converted to a demon like environment. Just for ONE crew member...
Starfleet is allegedly full of species like this, based on almost every soft canon source. (One could be an anomaly due to a licensee. But I think virtually every game series, novel, cartoon, comic book series, etc. has it being fairly common that it is not uncommon for species that are not able to live in human conditions serve in EV suits or fish tanks rather routinely in Starfleet.)
Our existing Breen defectors do this too, depending on which version of the Breen story you buy into.
The portraits probably should display Tholians in EV suits if you want to represent what they would look like on-duty but as they're simply personnel file images, that's up to some debate.
Hermaphrodites are originally HUMANS who have both male and female organs (its a greek word don't try and change it)
they are considered MALE as they do not have Functional reproduction (they are without exception Mule)
It like many things is a mythology reference
Asexual creatures generate EGGS ergo they are female
Eh. Then Jem'Hadar and Gorn are female?
I think gender is detached from biology. It's a social construct.
In much the same way as a transexual with male genitals and female identification is most politely referred to as "she," you would call a Jem'Hadar or Tholian whatever gender they choose to identify with.
(In the case of Jem'Hadar, they may in fact be more biologically female or asexual but are probably socialized as males due to what seems to be a universal association between males and aggressiveness, which assists in their duties as agents of terror.)
ok this is a debate on what something would be labeled male or female based on reproductive habits, lol if no ones noticed yet humans tend to stick a gender on everything look at ships they get labeled as she or he i seriously doubt they reproduce at all but there it is.
Jem hadar have no reproductive organs they are ITS not hims or hers
they are made in a LAB
I think gender is detached from biology. It's a social construct.
Gender is ONLY a biological issue "Sexuality" is a social construct
In much the same way as a transexual with male genitals and female identification is most politely referred to as "she," you would call a Jem'Hadar or Tholian whatever gender they choose to identify with.
Actually I would go with in the order given
HE , IT and THAT
(In the case of Jem'Hadar, they may in fact be more biologically female or asexual but are probably socialized as males due to what seems to be a universal association between males and aggressiveness, which assists in their duties as agents of terror.)
Agents of Terror??
you seem to mistake Jem hadar (Soldiers) for Hirogen
ok this is a debate on what something would be labeled male or female based on reproductive habits, lol if no ones noticed yet humans tend to stick a gender on everything look at ships they get labeled as she or he i seriously doubt they reproduce at all but there it is.
I have seen ships reproduce in trek
and of course Farscape
Okay, I must correct some serious misinformation in this thread.
1: the idea that all hermaphrodites are called males. This is untrue in the modern use of the word since a hermaphrodite's gender is usually chosen by the individual.
2: In nature hermaphroditic animals, namely snails and slugs, are considered hermaphrodites as gender, because in a mating pair both individuals carry both male and female sets of reproductive organs and impregnate each other upon an interaction.
Conclusion: It makes logical sense that Tholians would be considered hermaphrodite rather than male of female and cryptic should stop being lazy with their 0,1 gendering system and give us at least a byte to determine gender.
Tholians... are hermaphroditic. That means they technically don't have a gender... or they can be shortened as being a "herm". So why is it that the Tholian Duty Officers have a gender? Why are they "male"?
Because they built a Doff system that could conceivable have missions where gender is a Success/Disaster bonus factor, and then added Tholians, and they're a small dev team. Not every issue can be fixed immediately when it comes up.
You'll note they also don't take into account Andorian and Aenar genders, of which there are four.
Hopefully they'll fix it at some point, but I don't think it should have been allowed to hold up the introduction of Tholians.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
Eh, everyone in the game is male. Even the lady captains are called sir and he. It's because Cryptic are lazy developers, I mean, apparently there's no gender switch that affect dialog at all, I've never been referred to as ma'am or she or even little missy, and that's like BASIC tier programming stuff there.
Now I know you're just making stuff up. This game has taken soft-canon and extended universe books into consideration when making this game. If they had ANY information to base a female gender off of, then the Gorn would have a female gender to play.
"My frozen dairy-based confectionery attracts all the males of the species to the facilities. They all agree on it's superiority. Indeed, it is superior to yours. I could teach you the finer details but that would require monetary recompense on your part." -The Milkshake Song: Vulcan Edition
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Starfleet is allegedly full of species like this, based on almost every soft canon source. (One could be an anomaly due to a licensee. But I think virtually every game series, novel, cartoon, comic book series, etc. has it being fairly common that it is not uncommon for species that are not able to live in human conditions serve in EV suits or fish tanks rather routinely in Starfleet.)
Our existing Breen defectors do this too, depending on which version of the Breen story you buy into.
The portraits probably should display Tholians in EV suits if you want to represent what they would look like on-duty but as they're simply personnel file images, that's up to some debate.
Ok, I will agree with you there. I forgot about the variable gravity room DS9 had. As well as several other species that serves Starfleet. Silly old human thinking in silly human terms. Thanks for correcting me
Gender is ONLY a biological issue "Sexuality" is a social construct
EEEEE Wrong...
SEX is a biological issue. GENDER is a social and psychological issue SEXUALITY is the psychological and physiological drive to these.
Try taking a Sociology class before you start using the terms :rolleyes:
In this case, we are talking about how to address and identify other beings as "Masculine" or "Feminine" when their species is not that clearly cut into two genders. Regardless of their reproductive habits, we, as humans with our bigendered worldview, have trouble looking at another being and not knowing whether we should use "Sir" or "Ma'am".
Jem Hadar? They have more masculine characteristics including a deeper voice, broad chest, and an aggressive warrior like attitude. The Founders are asexual (as far as we know) However, each one presents itself as leaning one gender or another, probably a trait they picked up from solids. The Tholians I see as more Female, as most insects workers and queens are female, and only a woman could bug me so much :cool:
Agents of Terror??
you seem to mistake Jem hadar (Soldiers) for Hirogen
The Jem Hadar are soldiers of terror. They were not used to protect the people from the enemies of the State. They were used to ensure order and submission from the Dominion.
The Hirogen were following there sociological drive to test themselves against better and better prey. It is part of their culture and their religion. They are no more terrorist than your standard missionary screaming Bible Verses at you.
Live on Earth. Work in Space. Play with Dragons. Join the best add on to STO, the Neverwinter holodeck program! Only 14 GPL a month.
Ok, I will agree with you there. I forgot about the variable gravity room DS9 had. As well as several other species that serves Starfleet. Silly old human thinking in silly human terms. Thanks for correcting me
This is soft canon, and up to debate
EEEEE Wrong...
SEX is a biological issue. GENDER is a social and psychological issue SEXUALITY is the psychological and physiological drive to these.
Try taking a Sociology class before you start using the terms :rolleyes:
In this case, we are talking about how to address and identify other beings as "Masculine" or "Feminine" when their species is not that clearly cut into two genders. Regardless of their reproductive habits, we, as humans with our bigendered worldview, have trouble looking at another being and not knowing whether we should use "Sir" or "Ma'am".
Jem Hadar? They have more masculine characteristics including a deeper voice, broad chest, and an aggressive warrior like attitude. The Founders are asexual (as far as we know) However, each one presents itself as leaning one gender or another, probably a trait they picked up from solids. The Tholians I see as more Female, as most insects workers and queens are female, and only a woman could bug me so much :cool:
The Jem Hadar are soldiers of terror. They were not used to protect the people from the enemies of the State. They were used to ensure order and submission from the Dominion.
The Hirogen were following there sociological drive to test themselves against better and better prey. It is part of their culture and their religion. They are no more terrorist than your standard missionary screaming Bible Verses at you.
I understand what you are saying sir, I agree that I am the bold standard.
I recall fondly the days of Star Trek Online with Andorians offered in all four genders during character creation. Which was canonically correct and certainly more trek. Without much explanation, this was patched out to be Male and Female only. The species description no longer made mention of this unique detail.
My speculation (and that's all it is) was that some STO player's are parents who get uncomfortable when asked about more than two genders by their children or teens who may also be playing STO. It just isn't a conversation some parents want to have with their children. It's a response which carry's over from objections to DS9's Rejoined episode.
Imagine how comfortable those same parents will be to explain the hermaphrodite Tholian? I know this shouldn't be on a games designer to be concerned with. But I suspect sometimes that it is.
(/\) Exploring Star Trek Online Since July 2008 (/\)
I recall fondly the days of Star Trek Online with Andorians offered in all four genders during character creation. Which was canonically correct and certainly more trek. Without much explanation, this was patched out to be Male and Female only. The species description no longer made mention of this unique detail.
My speculation (and that's all it is) was that some STO player's are parents who get uncomfortable when asked about more than two genders by their children or teens who may also be playing STO. It just isn't a conversation some parents want to have with their children. It's a response which carry's over from objections to DS9's Rejoined episode.
Imagine how comfortable those same parents will be to explain the hermaphrodite Tholian? I know this shouldn't be on a games designer to be concerned with. But I suspect sometimes that it is.
I was wondering what happened to that...
"My frozen dairy-based confectionery attracts all the males of the species to the facilities. They all agree on it's superiority. Indeed, it is superior to yours. I could teach you the finer details but that would require monetary recompense on your part." -The Milkshake Song: Vulcan Edition
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Comments
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I weary of the chase. Wait for me. I shall be merciful and quick."
They turned these to face individuals with whom they interacted, which suggested they had some sort of information-gathering organ(s). Tholians were hermaphroditic: they had two sexes, but each individual had both sets of sexual organs. (ENT: "In a Mirror, Darkly", "Bound")
As for the Xindi-Insectoid: Yes, they are Asexual.
They were genderless and reproduced asexually. Also, because of their insectoid nature and the shortness of their life span, they were strongly concerned over the survival of their offspring. They protected their young by making a hatchery brig attached to their ships and shielded it in case of danger, even at the expense of the ship's life support system. Each individual was able to produce large clusters of eggs.
The eggs could not survive out of the ship and were equipped with a gland capable of producing a powerful and subtle neurotoxin. If an unexpected presence was detected in the vicinity of the eggs, the clusters would spray the substance on the intruder, causing (in the latter) an instinctive, obsessive interest in protecting and nurturing the hatchling. (ENT: "Hatchery")
However, some people in this thread are applying an insane amount of Troll Logic to define a race of hermaphroditic and asexual Starfish Aliens (non-humanoid in appearance) as "Male" and "Female", respectively. Stop trying to apply the human definition of gender to a fictional race. Try actually looking at them as their own genders.
What about the Undine, huh? Voyager established that they actually have FIVE genders in their race. Are you going to just simplify them into male and female too?
-The Milkshake Song: Vulcan Edition
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
so everytime they go to make a baby it's an orgy... nice
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
you mean in real life I can't solve every problem by reversing the polarity on something?
No, that works just fine in real life. I do that to solve all my problems.
That, or set weapons to maximum.
I beg to differ. Even the most simple creatures, such as worms, are hermaphrodites. They weren't human. :cool:
Like ALL words
the first meaning ALWAYS remains
and oddly many "lower forms" are not hermaphrodites at all
many of them are single celled Hydra
Lieutenant Black: What was her name do I know her?
Ensign Parker: Her name? I don't think their species has a gender...
I think fine details matter.
Aliens should have an option to be sexless (or at least not have TRIBBLE)
most species on earth are not mammal you know
I would go with this.
In the very same episode where Tholians are revealed as asexually reproducing, a Tholian makes an insult directed at Archer's maternal ancestor.
Gender is how we identify. It's entirely possible to be male gendered in a species with only one unified physical sex if they have a cultural concept of gender.
Starfleet is allegedly full of species like this, based on almost every soft canon source. (One could be an anomaly due to a licensee. But I think virtually every game series, novel, cartoon, comic book series, etc. has it being fairly common that it is not uncommon for species that are not able to live in human conditions serve in EV suits or fish tanks rather routinely in Starfleet.)
Our existing Breen defectors do this too, depending on which version of the Breen story you buy into.
The portraits probably should display Tholians in EV suits if you want to represent what they would look like on-duty but as they're simply personnel file images, that's up to some debate.
Eh. Then Jem'Hadar and Gorn are female?
I think gender is detached from biology. It's a social construct.
In much the same way as a transexual with male genitals and female identification is most politely referred to as "she," you would call a Jem'Hadar or Tholian whatever gender they choose to identify with.
(In the case of Jem'Hadar, they may in fact be more biologically female or asexual but are probably socialized as males due to what seems to be a universal association between males and aggressiveness, which assists in their duties as agents of terror.)
some gorn are female (they are HUGE female gorn)
Jem hadar have no reproductive organs they are ITS not hims or hers
they are made in a LAB
Gender is ONLY a biological issue "Sexuality" is a social construct
Actually I would go with in the order given
HE , IT and THAT
Agents of Terror??
you seem to mistake Jem hadar (Soldiers) for Hirogen
I have seen ships reproduce in trek
and of course Farscape
1: the idea that all hermaphrodites are called males. This is untrue in the modern use of the word since a hermaphrodite's gender is usually chosen by the individual.
2: In nature hermaphroditic animals, namely snails and slugs, are considered hermaphrodites as gender, because in a mating pair both individuals carry both male and female sets of reproductive organs and impregnate each other upon an interaction.
Conclusion: It makes logical sense that Tholians would be considered hermaphrodite rather than male of female and cryptic should stop being lazy with their 0,1 gendering system and give us at least a byte to determine gender.
lol ok stand corrected forgot about biological ships.:)
Because they built a Doff system that could conceivable have missions where gender is a Success/Disaster bonus factor, and then added Tholians, and they're a small dev team. Not every issue can be fixed immediately when it comes up.
You'll note they also don't take into account Andorian and Aenar genders, of which there are four.
Hopefully they'll fix it at some point, but I don't think it should have been allowed to hold up the introduction of Tholians.
Now I know you're just making stuff up. This game has taken soft-canon and extended universe books into consideration when making this game. If they had ANY information to base a female gender off of, then the Gorn would have a female gender to play.
-The Milkshake Song: Vulcan Edition
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Ok, I will agree with you there. I forgot about the variable gravity room DS9 had. As well as several other species that serves Starfleet. Silly old human thinking in silly human terms. Thanks for correcting me
This is soft canon, and up to debate
EEEEE Wrong...
SEX is a biological issue.
GENDER is a social and psychological issue
SEXUALITY is the psychological and physiological drive to these.
Try taking a Sociology class before you start using the terms :rolleyes:
In this case, we are talking about how to address and identify other beings as "Masculine" or "Feminine" when their species is not that clearly cut into two genders. Regardless of their reproductive habits, we, as humans with our bigendered worldview, have trouble looking at another being and not knowing whether we should use "Sir" or "Ma'am".
Jem Hadar? They have more masculine characteristics including a deeper voice, broad chest, and an aggressive warrior like attitude. The Founders are asexual (as far as we know) However, each one presents itself as leaning one gender or another, probably a trait they picked up from solids. The Tholians I see as more Female, as most insects workers and queens are female, and only a woman could bug me so much :cool:
The Jem Hadar are soldiers of terror. They were not used to protect the people from the enemies of the State. They were used to ensure order and submission from the Dominion.
The Hirogen were following there sociological drive to test themselves against better and better prey. It is part of their culture and their religion. They are no more terrorist than your standard missionary screaming Bible Verses at you.
I understand what you are saying sir, I agree that I am the bold standard.
You seriously spam every single post on these forums... You hoping to be the first to hit 20k posts?
On Topic: I agree with the OP
My speculation (and that's all it is) was that some STO player's are parents who get uncomfortable when asked about more than two genders by their children or teens who may also be playing STO. It just isn't a conversation some parents want to have with their children. It's a response which carry's over from objections to DS9's Rejoined episode.
Imagine how comfortable those same parents will be to explain the hermaphrodite Tholian? I know this shouldn't be on a games designer to be concerned with. But I suspect sometimes that it is.
I was wondering what happened to that...
-The Milkshake Song: Vulcan Edition
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sex is a biological FUNCTION
Gender is male or female or PDG (meaning neither or both)
nah its options
Nope. Just try using reverse polarity on the wife/girlfriend while fighting and you will find it will not work out so well.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution