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thelizard
Member Posts: 4 Arc User
I'm sure someone else noticed besides me but I'm not sure if there was a discussion on it. I'm a trek fan. But I'm also a sci-fi fan in general (I love BSG and StarGate as well) so a lot of canon things didn't inherently bother me like a lot of other trek fans.
However... one thing I found that did seriously bother me that surprised me...
Gender...
Now... I doubt Cryptic would take note since I'm a nobody... and this is ultimately a minor flavor thing but to me it would make all the difference because it's just a blatant inaccuracy.
Tholians... are hermaphroditic. That means they technically don't have a gender... or they can be shortened as being a "herm". So why is it that the Tholian Duty Officers have a gender? Why are they "male"?
Another thing I've noticed: T'likchik'zi is "female" why? Xindi-Insectoids are asexual, they reproduce asexually. So they would be "asexual".
I admit, changing this wouldn't change the gameplay any way... but in star trek there's many and various different types of life forms and many of them might not adhere to the typical reproduction process as we and thus wont have genders.
Why are individuals in genderless races assigned a gender? They had to actually choose a gender over herm or asexual. What if Tholians or Xindi-Insectoids or any other genderless star trek race become playable... would they just be "male" or "female".
IDK why but this bothers me a lot everytime I see it since I have all 6 Tholian doffs
Anyone else feel the same?
However... one thing I found that did seriously bother me that surprised me...
Gender...
Now... I doubt Cryptic would take note since I'm a nobody... and this is ultimately a minor flavor thing but to me it would make all the difference because it's just a blatant inaccuracy.
Tholians... are hermaphroditic. That means they technically don't have a gender... or they can be shortened as being a "herm". So why is it that the Tholian Duty Officers have a gender? Why are they "male"?
Another thing I've noticed: T'likchik'zi is "female" why? Xindi-Insectoids are asexual, they reproduce asexually. So they would be "asexual".
I admit, changing this wouldn't change the gameplay any way... but in star trek there's many and various different types of life forms and many of them might not adhere to the typical reproduction process as we and thus wont have genders.
Why are individuals in genderless races assigned a gender? They had to actually choose a gender over herm or asexual. What if Tholians or Xindi-Insectoids or any other genderless star trek race become playable... would they just be "male" or "female".
IDK why but this bothers me a lot everytime I see it since I have all 6 Tholian doffs
Anyone else feel the same?
Post edited by thelizard on
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I've always liked the Trek shows, but I did not know that about the Tholians nor the Xindi insect things.
nor is the xindi
I guess... Says so in Memory Alpha
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Tholian
but anyway hermaphrodites can be defined as male
Is ENT not canon? Because the herma characteristics is referenced with ENT episodes... And what about the Xindi-Insects?
and enterprise is off canon most of the way due to time death
That would be a valid counter if the wiki didnt credit an actual original source.
Regarding ENT not being canon... Arent the Xindis an ENT introduced race anyway? Which are present ingame? You'd figure that if the Xindis were an ENT creation you'd get the ENT reference to asexual reproduction right... So why is Tisck (my nick for "her") female?
You take ENT source but not actually use what ENT established about it? Why not just make her an it?
(self fertilised but female)
Why are hermaphrodites male and asexual female? They both come from the same source. Or rather... Both have ovaries
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Asexual creatures are deemed female
Indeed. I can somewhat forgive missions, plotlines, designs, etc. But this is such an easy thing to avoid. Just have a system for "he, she, it". Not exactly hard to implement. Almost as if they purposefully avoided references or implementations of non traditional reproduction... Come on do we have to be that PC?
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Based on ENT Tholians can reproduce asexually
Not true. Asexuality refers to a lack of gender.
HOWEVER, asexual reproduction DOES NOT equate to a lack of gender, and I don't personally know a single insect that actually lacks gender. Many do or can reproduce asexually, but those are in fact female as they reproduce via parthenogenesis.
I don't know whether the Insectoids being genderless was ever introduced into canon via Enterprise, or whether some wiki writer decided that since the reproduced asexually that they must be asexual themselves (a common, if incorrect, assumption) but either way I think it's likely just a product of assumptions and poor science.
Are you going to site your source or just claim this over and over again. I havent found anything other then some questionable ask/answer sites where this information might have been pulled.
All descriptions of hemaphrodites that Ive come across especially non-humanoids like Tholians refers to them as both not one or the other.
*sigh* poor science is really the actuality of star trek. At first it was due to low tv budget but now its more of just writing shortcuts.
Btw arent starfishes genderless? Plants are genderless too.
Sure. There are tonne of genderless creatures on Earth. No insects that I know of though (not saying it's impossible that some exist, but I've never heard of such a thing).
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Yeah its safe to assume the Xindi-insects reproduce similarly to earth insects so the "she" is fine i guess. I still would like the Tholians to have a hermaphrodite designastion... It would do
Canon doesn't need to give credit to wikis (being as its the source material), but wikis do need to give referances to where the information is from (mostly the part in the source material where that happened/was said/etc), and it is stated ALL live action series (maybe the Animated too, not sre) are Canon (by CBS, who also govern whats canon in this game) and as such they define ST:Enterprise being canon.
Subbed since 8th February 2010
Depending on the species they are either both (having parts for both genders) or Asexual (more or less clone themselves), as for Starfish... not really sure.
Subbed since 8th February 2010
Your biggest beef should be the damnation of the canon by making their ships playable and putting them on Federation ships.
Wow... just wow...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite
A hermaphrodite is an organism that has both male and female reproductive systems, and normally requires two individuals to reproduce.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asexual_reproduction
An Asexual organism (biological speaking) is one that does not have a dichotomy of sex roles in reproduction, and only one organism is required for reproduction.
Thus, the gendered pronouns in either case is incomplete.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Tholian and it says right there in the first sentence "Hermaphroditic" Memory Alpha ONLY accepts information that is canon by definition of being seen onscreen as one of the five series or one of the eleven movies produced by CBS and Paramount.
And I agree here... Not only is the idea of a Tholian turncoat just odd in itself (Normally, I am the first to stand up against the stereotype of an species... but COME ON!!) But there is also the idea of the Tholian's natural demon class environment. So, they would have to live their entire shifts in pressure EVA suits, and have a compartment airlocked, stripped down, and converted to a demon like environment. Just for ONE crew member...
As for the pronouns, I am sure that for the convenience of everyone in the battlefield, everyone just uses the male pronouns when it is useful,
"Tango heading to the shield controls!"
"I got him!"
neutral pronouns when they are being demeaning or maybe PC in a form,
"Damn bugs... It got me in the leg."
"It appears that it is interrogating the Mirror Universe Terrans. Find out why, Officer."
and female pronouns when they are being overly PC to the point of sarcasm.
"And I thought she smelled bad on the OUTSIDE..."
"Gosh, she put up a fight."
At least, that is how I have seen it done in every other instance of hermaphroditic bad guys. If they were on our side or even neutral, we might have specialized nongendered or bigendered pronouns that we would use based on what both parties agreed would translate correctly.
I agree with this.
Fleet leader Nova Elite
Fleet Leader House of Nova elite
@ren_larreck
Depends on the plant.
Of the flower-bearing plants -- some have two separate genders, some are "hermaphroditic" (both genders in one plant).
Insects are all gendered. In the case of ants and bees, the workers are sterile females.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I weary of the chase. Wait for me. I shall be merciful and quick."
Well the SCE could have put on EVA suits and just stripped out the environmental systems on Tholian ships and replaced them with Starfleet standard issue gear. The SCE found out how to turn down the temperature on the Cardassian ships after all.
Also Tholians in the Mirror Universe are known to use Humanoid slaves (and a Gorn slave master) so its possible there is a Humanoid setting on their thermostat.
At least according to the TNG tech manual Federation starships are fitted so some crew quarters can be set up for special environmental conditions. The (Mirror) NX-01 even had the ability to provide a Tholian environment for the prisoner it captured and that ship is around 250 years old by 2409 standards. On DS9 it was shown the Starfleet ships can be set up for variable gravity to accommodate different species, and I doubt the Benzites sleep with that re-breather on, they have to have quarters aboard with their atmosphere.
So what if they have to wear EV Suits on duty? The Engineering crews in the early movies wore had RADHAZ suits (minus the helmet). Heck if Star Trek were realistic the crew would be wearing EV Suits (or partial EV Suits) whenever the Red Alert was sounded (how many times do we see a helpless crewman blow out in to space before the emergency force fields are in place?)- most real life navies issue protective gear for sailors to wear at battlestations ranging from gear to protect from fires and smoke to protection from chemical, biological, and radiological agents.
they are considered MALE as they do not have Functional reproduction (they are without exception Mule)
It like many things is a mythology reference
Asexual creatures generate EGGS ergo they are female