I'm sure someone else noticed besides me but I'm not sure if there was a discussion on it. I'm a trek fan. But I'm also a sci-fi fan in general (I love BSG and StarGate as well) so a lot of canon things didn't inherently bother me like a lot of other trek fans.
However... one thing I found that did seriously bother me that surprised me...
Gender...
Now... I doubt Cryptic would take note since I'm a nobody... and this is ultimately a minor flavor thing but to me it would make all the difference because it's just a blatant inaccuracy.
Tholians... are hermaphroditic. That means they technically don't have a gender... or they can be shortened as being a "herm". So why is it that the Tholian Duty Officers have a gender? Why are they "male"?
Another thing I've noticed: T'likchik'zi is "female" why? Xindi-Insectoids are asexual, they reproduce asexually. So they would be "asexual".
I admit, changing this wouldn't change the gameplay any way... but in star trek there's many and various different types of life forms and many of them might not adhere to the typical reproduction process as we and thus wont have genders.
Why are individuals in genderless races assigned a gender? They had to actually choose a gender over herm or asexual. What if Tholians or Xindi-Insectoids or any other genderless star trek race become playable... would they just be "male" or "female".
IDK why but this bothers me a lot everytime I see it since I have all 6 Tholian doffs
Anyone else feel the same?
Allow me to use an analogy from another sci-fi franchise.
In the Star Wars universe, Hutts are hermaphrodites, yet everyone calls Jabba the Hutt a "male" and stuff because he acts like a male. Hutts, despite being hermaphrodites, spend their lives acting either male or female. This causes people to consider different Hutts male or female depending on how they act.
Allow me to use an analogy from another sci-fi franchise.
In the Star Wars universe, Hutts are hermaphrodites, yet everyone calls Jabba the Hutt a "male" and stuff because he acts like a male. Hutts, despite being hermaphrodites, spend their lives acting either male or female. This causes people to consider different Hutts male or female depending on how they act.
So maybe this is what Cryptic is doing.
A similar analogy would be the Goa'uld from Stargate. Some are considered males, others are considered females, yet their hosts can be either. Osiris, for example, has a male personality in a female host. Apophis, however, has a male personality AND host. And so on. Until the last of the Goa'uld got wiped out. And until the Tok'ra inevitably went extinct.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Why is Starfleet even ON nukara ??
its a world claimed by a sentient race and where no federation race can live
Because they know the Mirror universe has their own equivalent of the State-of-the-art Odyssey class cruiser. They know that ship has crashed on Nukara Prime, and they know the Tholians can become an even greater threat by salvaging that ship and reverse engineering it for their own purposes. Dealing with the Mirror Universe is bad enough as it is.
"My frozen dairy-based confectionery attracts all the males of the species to the facilities. They all agree on it's superiority. Indeed, it is superior to yours. I could teach you the finer details but that would require monetary recompense on your part." -The Milkshake Song: Vulcan Edition
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Your insane troll logic never ceases to amuse me...
"My frozen dairy-based confectionery attracts all the males of the species to the facilities. They all agree on it's superiority. Indeed, it is superior to yours. I could teach you the finer details but that would require monetary recompense on your part." -The Milkshake Song: Vulcan Edition
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I'm sure someone else noticed besides me but I'm not sure if there was a discussion on it. I'm a trek fan. But I'm also a sci-fi fan in general (I love BSG and StarGate as well) so a lot of canon things didn't inherently bother me like a lot of other trek fans.
However... one thing I found that did seriously bother me that surprised me...
Gender...
Now... I doubt Cryptic would take note since I'm a nobody... and this is ultimately a minor flavor thing but to me it would make all the difference because it's just a blatant inaccuracy.
Tholians... are hermaphroditic. That means they technically don't have a gender... or they can be shortened as being a "herm". So why is it that the Tholian Duty Officers have a gender? Why are they "male"?
Another thing I've noticed: T'likchik'zi is "female" why? Xindi-Insectoids are asexual, they reproduce asexually. So they would be "asexual".
I admit, changing this wouldn't change the gameplay any way... but in star trek there's many and various different types of life forms and many of them might not adhere to the typical reproduction process as we and thus wont have genders.
Why are individuals in genderless races assigned a gender? They had to actually choose a gender over herm or asexual. What if Tholians or Xindi-Insectoids or any other genderless star trek race become playable... would they just be "male" or "female".
IDK why but this bothers me a lot everytime I see it since I have all 6 Tholian doffs
Anyone else feel the same?
Canon? You must be new here. Tholians serving aboard Federation Starships ain't canon either. The only time something bieng non-canon bothers Cryptic, is when they can't shove it into a lockbox!
Memory Alpha ONLY accepts information that is canon by definition of being seen onscreen as one of the five series or one of the eleven movies produced by CBS and Paramount.
I was reading, and having a good laugh remembering the old days when trek fans argued over the smallest of details. But I kinda had to stop there and make a correction.
You Sir/Miss/It are incorrect there. Or at the very least, incomplete.
I could go on with the list, but I think you get the point. Memory Alpha is a great source of canon AND non-canon information. But I think any arguments related to canon would hold more weight if you cite the exact episode this information is drawn from. Those of us who actually have the entire franchise on DVD can then pull out that particular episode and see it for our selves. Citing the exact scene would also be helpful. But, using Memory Alpha as a reference to obtain the episode number is also acceptable.
I should also point out that some of the species information on Memory Alpha is NOT canon as a portion of what is written for certain species is actually pulled from non-canon sources, like books.
Gender is male or female or PDG (meaning neither or both)
nah its options
Are you ignoring my links? or the logic? or just me in general?
Sex has to do with the state of biological reproduction. Females have larger gametes than Males. It is the state of the body and what bits you have in your pants and in your chromosomes. Some species have great dimorphism, others do not. Human dimorphism is that Males are larger and heavier set, and grows facial hair. Females are typically shorter, less build, have wider hips and pronounced breast.
Gender has to do with the state of mind. It is typically linked with the state of body BUT NOT ALWAYS! Transgendered persons as well as the loose, fluidity of social gender means that a person can drift there gender across a spectrum, or ignore the spectrum all together. In human western culture (the one culture I am comfortable enough discussing), Masculine persons are more aggressive, likes more physical activities, and is a provider and protector. Feminine persons are more social, caring, prefers more social activities and compromises with those around them. However, this is on a spectrum, therefore, you can land anywhere between the two.
Sexuality has to do with the state of heart. It is NOT a matter of opinion as no one has been able to successfully been able to choose their sexuality at whim. While the mechanics are unclear, it is being attracted to someone either of the opposite spectrum of gender, and the opposite sex (Heterosexuality) or someone on the same side of the gender and sex line (Homosexuality) Both sides equally (Bisexuality) or no one in particular (Asexuality).
Now that we have the terms hammered out. We are asking the Tholians about their gender. NOT their sex. We are asking them to align to one side or the other of the sociological gender spectrum.. NOT to be selectively spade or neutered so they only have one or the other sex.
Live on Earth. Work in Space. Play with Dragons. Join the best add on to STO, the Neverwinter holodeck program! Only 14 GPL a month.
Are you ignoring my links? or the logic? or just me in general?
Sex has to do with the state of biological reproduction. Females have larger gametes than Males. It is the state of the body and what bits you have in your pants and in your chromosomes. Some species have great dimorphism, others do not. Human dimorphism is that Males are larger and heavier set, and grows facial hair. Females are typically shorter, less build, have wider hips and pronounced breast
.
thats Gender (physical attributes) its on your passport
Gender has to do with the state of mind. It is typically linked with the state of body BUT NOT ALWAYS! Transgendered persons as well as the loose, fluidity of social gender means that a person can drift there gender across a spectrum, or ignore the spectrum all together.
that would be "political gender" not biological gender
biological gender is
Male Female PDG or Null (very very rare in humans not sure there are any living)
In human western culture (the one culture I am comfortable enough discussing), Masculine persons are more aggressive, likes more physical activities, and is a provider and protector.
Not always
Feminine persons are more social, caring, prefers more social activities and compromises with those around them. However, this is on a spectrum, therefore, you can land anywhere between the two.
Female runs from Xena to princess Diana
Male from Stephen fry to Hulk Hogan
and beyond
Sexuality has to do with the state of heart. It is NOT a matter of opinion as no one has been able to successfully been able to choose their sexuality at whim. While the mechanics are unclear, it is being attracted to someone either of the opposite spectrum of gender, and the opposite sex (Heterosexuality) or someone on the same side of the gender and sex line (Homosexuality) Both sides equally (Bisexuality) or no one in particular (Asexuality).
you missed a few
Same Gender (biological) Homosexual
Either Gender (biological) Bisexual
Opposite Gender (Biological) Hetrosexual
No one at all is also possible (and its not Asexual)
Everyone is possible (nyphomania etc)
All of which occur in trek by the way
So does "mono focus pseudosexuality" but only in the case of odo
but those are all OPTIONS (as in there is a whole range of them not as in people choose them)
there may be as many as 50 different Gender identities but there are only four biological states possible in humans
Now that we have the terms hammered out. We are asking the Tholians about their gender. NOT their sex. We are asking them to align to one side or the other of the sociological gender spectrum.. NOT to be selectively spade or neutered so they only have one or the other sex.
Technically I think they are crystaline and do not actually HAVE gender at all
but thats not really important as they aren't coming to a boy girl mixer
Technically I think they are crystaline and do not actually HAVE gender at all
but thats not really important as they aren't coming to a boy girl mixer
and they do not belong on starfleet ships
They're not any harder to accommodate than Medusans, and not any harder to comprehend either. What's special about a Tholian vs. any other sentient who might choose freely to follow a different path than what is expected of him by his racial peers?
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
Comments
My theory is that there are crystals on their Home World that they expel a type of energy into to start growth.
Wouldn't it be funny if all those Tholians on Nukura were just trying to give the equivalent of the Hawian greeting?
Allow me to use an analogy from another sci-fi franchise.
In the Star Wars universe, Hutts are hermaphrodites, yet everyone calls Jabba the Hutt a "male" and stuff because he acts like a male. Hutts, despite being hermaphrodites, spend their lives acting either male or female. This causes people to consider different Hutts male or female depending on how they act.
So maybe this is what Cryptic is doing.
its a world claimed by a sentient race and where no federation race can live
A similar analogy would be the Goa'uld from Stargate. Some are considered males, others are considered females, yet their hosts can be either. Osiris, for example, has a male personality in a female host. Apophis, however, has a male personality AND host. And so on. Until the last of the Goa'uld got wiped out. And until the Tok'ra inevitably went extinct.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Because they know the Mirror universe has their own equivalent of the State-of-the-art Odyssey class cruiser. They know that ship has crashed on Nukara Prime, and they know the Tholians can become an even greater threat by salvaging that ship and reverse engineering it for their own purposes. Dealing with the Mirror Universe is bad enough as it is.
-The Milkshake Song: Vulcan Edition
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"excuse us could we possibly have that useless ship that landed on your world?
then we offer them a good deal
"hey you let us have it we can let you have 40,000 nearly new lockboxes"
-The Milkshake Song: Vulcan Edition
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Canon? You must be new here. Tholians serving aboard Federation Starships ain't canon either. The only time something bieng non-canon bothers Cryptic, is when they can't shove it into a lockbox!
I was reading, and having a good laugh remembering the old days when trek fans argued over the smallest of details. But I kinda had to stop there and make a correction.
You Sir/Miss/It are incorrect there. Or at the very least, incomplete.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Valiant
Does not appear in ANY on screen production, show or movie.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Genesis_Wave
Does not appear in ANY on screen production, show or movie.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/I,_Q
Does not appear in ANY on screen production, show or movie.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Legends_of_the_Ferengi
Does not appear in ANY on screen production, show or movie.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Kobayashi_Maru
Does not appear in ANY on screen production, show or movie.
(I read a lot, can you tell?)
I could go on with the list, but I think you get the point. Memory Alpha is a great source of canon AND non-canon information. But I think any arguments related to canon would hold more weight if you cite the exact episode this information is drawn from. Those of us who actually have the entire franchise on DVD can then pull out that particular episode and see it for our selves. Citing the exact scene would also be helpful. But, using Memory Alpha as a reference to obtain the episode number is also acceptable.
I should also point out that some of the species information on Memory Alpha is NOT canon as a portion of what is written for certain species is actually pulled from non-canon sources, like books.
Are you ignoring my links? or the logic? or just me in general?
Sex has to do with the state of biological reproduction. Females have larger gametes than Males. It is the state of the body and what bits you have in your pants and in your chromosomes. Some species have great dimorphism, others do not. Human dimorphism is that Males are larger and heavier set, and grows facial hair. Females are typically shorter, less build, have wider hips and pronounced breast.
Gender has to do with the state of mind. It is typically linked with the state of body BUT NOT ALWAYS! Transgendered persons as well as the loose, fluidity of social gender means that a person can drift there gender across a spectrum, or ignore the spectrum all together. In human western culture (the one culture I am comfortable enough discussing), Masculine persons are more aggressive, likes more physical activities, and is a provider and protector. Feminine persons are more social, caring, prefers more social activities and compromises with those around them. However, this is on a spectrum, therefore, you can land anywhere between the two.
Sexuality has to do with the state of heart. It is NOT a matter of opinion as no one has been able to successfully been able to choose their sexuality at whim. While the mechanics are unclear, it is being attracted to someone either of the opposite spectrum of gender, and the opposite sex (Heterosexuality) or someone on the same side of the gender and sex line (Homosexuality) Both sides equally (Bisexuality) or no one in particular (Asexuality).
Now that we have the terms hammered out. We are asking the Tholians about their gender. NOT their sex. We are asking them to align to one side or the other of the sociological gender spectrum.. NOT to be selectively spade or neutered so they only have one or the other sex.
thats Gender (physical attributes) its on your passport
that would be "political gender" not biological gender
biological gender is
Male Female PDG or Null (very very rare in humans not sure there are any living)
Not always
Female runs from Xena to princess Diana
Male from Stephen fry to Hulk Hogan
and beyond
you missed a few
Same Gender (biological) Homosexual
Either Gender (biological) Bisexual
Opposite Gender (Biological) Hetrosexual
No one at all is also possible (and its not Asexual)
Everyone is possible (nyphomania etc)
All of which occur in trek by the way
So does "mono focus pseudosexuality" but only in the case of odo
but those are all OPTIONS (as in there is a whole range of them not as in people choose them)
there may be as many as 50 different Gender identities but there are only four biological states possible in humans
Technically I think they are crystaline and do not actually HAVE gender at all
but thats not really important as they aren't coming to a boy girl mixer
and they do not belong on starfleet ships
They're not any harder to accommodate than Medusans, and not any harder to comprehend either. What's special about a Tholian vs. any other sentient who might choose freely to follow a different path than what is expected of him by his racial peers?