I don't know what you are doing, but my fully buffed turrets can hit home for over 1000 damage, each of the four. I wouldn't call that particular useless or insignificant.
I don't know what you are doing, but my fully buffed turrets can hit home for over 1000 damage, each of the four. I wouldn't call that particular useless or insignificant.
He's not complaining about the damage but the speed at which they fire. Although following this to the logical conclusion he's not saying up the speed lower the damage.
No matter how they change the rate of fire I don't see them changing the all important DPS. Actually I don't see them changing Turrets at all. As 99% of the replies disagree with him.
You have to understand the OP has 1 Turret that he expects to fill the hole between his forward DHC's and rear Beam banks. And compete with the 3 turrets an Escort has
I use a turret in concert with cannons, heavy cannons, and beams. I pick the turret to make up for the blind spots that beams and cannons leave behind.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why. When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
I used real world applications for examples to be practical. I even used sci-fi to shows and movies to show practicality. It donesn't matter what I say, you won't like the change. You don't like to be practicle and you want nothing to change in this game for the better. Everything is fine in your world. Well, sorry, I'm not the one to sit by and let good ideas pass me by. I say speed the turret up, and even if its just 2 more shots per second, that would satisfy me.
I used real world applications for examples to be practical. I even used sci-fi to shows and movies to show practicality. It donesn't matter what I say, you won't like the change. You don't like to be practicle and you want nothing to change in this game for the better. Everything is fine in your world. Well, sorry, I'm not the one to sit by and let good ideas pass me by. I say speed the turret up, and even if its just 2 more shots per second, that would satisfy me.
It's hard to use a real world example of a phaser. You picked very subjective turrets for your real world examples too.
You compared real world machine guns to fictional anti-ship weapons and found the anti-ship turrets to be too slow. That is neither practical or a good idea.
Transformers had a race of Giant Transforming robots, this has nothing to do with Star Trek. Much like Battlestar Galactica and Babylon 5 have nothing to do with Star Trek, even the Star Trek TV and Movies have nothing to do with the rate of turret fire in STO because of Game balance and I don't remember seeing a turret or a weapon described as such on the screen.
The Sovereign has a Phaser Cannon mounted in the nose that can be manually fired on paper, never used it in the movies. They doesn't mean the Sovereign gets to be a 5/4 Cruiser with 1 forward slot permantly taken up by a Phaser Cannon.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why. When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
It's hard to use a real world example of a phaser. You picked very subjective turrets for your real world examples too.
You compared real world machine guns to fictional anti-ship weapons and found the anti-ship turrets to be too slow. That is neither practical or a good idea.
Transformers had a race of Giant Transforming robots, this has nothing to do with Star Trek. Much like Battlestar Galactica and Babylon 5 have nothing to do with Star Trek, even the Star Trek TV and Movies have nothing to do with the rate of turret fire in STO because of Game balance and I don't remember seeing a turret or a weapon described as such on the screen.
The Sovereign has a Phaser Cannon mounted in the nose that can be manually fired on paper, never used it in the movies. They doesn't mean the Sovereign gets to be a 5/4 Cruiser with 1 forward slot permantly taken up by a Phaser Cannon.
You have this selective reading problem. You just disregarded that I did mention Star Trek as one of the sci-fi movies. You claim you seen the movies but it seems you don't pay attention to detail. The newest Star Trek movie done by J. J. Abrams, has the ships armed with turrets, not stationary banks, arrays or cannons, but turrets. They didn't fire slow like the turrets in this game.
I'm not talking about the Sovereign or it's cannons that I believe you just made up. I just read the schematics on the Sovereign class and there is no mention of cannons anywhere. You can't use drawing board blueprints and concepts because they don't necessarrily make it onto the ship used in shows and movies. Just like the Enterprise-A was to have sauser separation, thought of by the man who drew and made the ship model, but the directors didn't want that ability, so it didn't become reality.
Its quite obvious that they don't use every weapon a ship is supposed to have. Like the Sovereign Class standard is 12 phaser arrays, 1 quantom torpedo launcher, and 4 Phonton torpedo launchers(the refit has 16 phaser arrays, and 1 quantum torpedo launcher, 9 photon torpedo launchers). This game only allows you to use no more than 8 weapon slots and 1 special weapon.
You completely jumped off suject and will try to deflect the main purpose of this thread. This thread is about Turret's rate of fire, not anything else.
The server does not render graphics, but it does track the location, orientation and motion of every object in the game, as well as hitbox data for said objects. that is the reason why you will never see very fast refiring weapons. even the most advanced computer would be overloaded tracking all of that data for a thousand players if those players were shooting at things with Vulcan Phalanx meatgrinders.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
In terms of weapons the Sovereign-class starship was fitted with a phaser array, should it be nonoperational then there was an auxiliary pulse phaser cannon that emerged from the hull. This cannon was capable of being manually operated and fired two pulse blasts along with a powered shot.
I brought this up not to derail the conversation, but to show an example of something known about a ship which is not evident in the game. I admit I thought it was in the nose not simply mounted to the hull somewhere.
You have this selective reading problem. You just disregarded that I did mention Star Trek as one of the sci-fi movies.
You say I have selective reading but you ignore the bit where I say that even the Star Trek Movies and TV series have little baring on this game.
The JJ movies are not only in the past but it's an alternative past to the games time line. As for the movie I can't say it resonated with me as well as the TNG or TOS shows. So I guess I wasn't paying attention to the turret fire in it.
So let's talk about the Turrets rate of fire than.
You want it to shoot faster, but you never explained how it should shoot faster?
Does this mean the DPS will not change? Will it shoot more shots faster at a lower damage, or it will shoot faster with a longer cooldown?
Now more shots becomes unbalancing because it increases the Proc rate so that is out, so a faster firing pattern with longer cooldowns it what your going to be asking for right?
Rapid fire barely increase the rate of fire to 5 shots per second. That is laughable. Regular cannons are also quite slow in rate of fire but faster the the turrets in rapid fire. Rapid Cannon Fire 1 is all that a cruiser captain can use except for the Oddyssey, but it can't mount heavy cannons. RCF 1 does not sustain longer than 5 seconds and has a 10 sec cooldown, while RCF 2 and 3 are almost never ending and only availble to escort captains.That is total BS and goes against the Cryptic's so called game balance. There is no balance when most players in PVP are in carriers or escorts, because canon cruisers are hadicaped in their abilities, so you need weapons other than beams to protect the blind spots. Beams in this game miss fighters alot, while turrets don't miss. Its doesn't make sense to have the smaller weaker weapons shoot slow like P shooters while heavy cannons fire like a repeating machine gun.
Now keep in mind you've said that Escorts are pretty powerful (see the red bit) well increasing the fire rate will increase procs or increasing the DPS will also make Escorts that much more powerful in the game. Again something you don't want right?
Do you want there to be a Escort Turret that is the same as the current one and a more powerful Cruiser Turret?
I'm a little confused by that blue bit too, Beams and Turrets have the same base accuracy so beams and turrets hit equally. If you have [Acc] Modifiers on your turrets and none on your beams that could explain this. And of course the yellow bit is just plain wrong.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why. When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
I'm a little confused by that blue bit too, Beams and Turrets have the same base accuracy so beams and turrets hit equally. If you have [Acc] Modifiers on your turrets and none on your beams that could explain this. And of course the yellow bit is just plain wrong.
Someone once tested the accuracy of weapons and it seems that beam weapons 'stay accurate longer' at longer ranges. Or rather: at long range, turrets are less accurate than beams.
Someone once tested the accuracy of weapons and it seems that beam weapons 'stay accurate longer' at longer ranges. Or rather: at long range, turrets are less accurate than beams.
I could be mistaken though.
I know turrets being cannons have a massive DPS drop over 5k of range, but what your saying is now completely opposite to what the original poster has said.
I don't remember if a long time ago (S1) beams had more accuracy than cannons but I was under the impression all weapons had the same basics.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why. When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
You have this selective reading problem. You just disregarded that I did mention Star Trek as one of the sci-fi movies. You claim you seen the movies but it seems you don't pay attention to detail. The newest Star Trek movie done by J. J. Abrams, has the ships armed with turrets, not stationary banks, arrays or cannons, but turrets. They didn't fire slow like the turrets in this game.
I'm not talking about the Sovereign or it's cannons that I believe you just made up. I just read the schematics on the Sovereign class and there is no mention of cannons anywhere. You can't use drawing board blueprints and concepts because they don't necessarrily make it onto the ship used in shows and movies. Just like the Enterprise-A was to have sauser separation, thought of by the man who drew and made the ship model, but the directors didn't want that ability, so it didn't become reality.
Its quite obvious that they don't use every weapon a ship is supposed to have. Like the Sovereign Class standard is 12 phaser arrays, 1 quantom torpedo launcher, and 4 Phonton torpedo launchers(the refit has 16 phaser arrays, and 1 quantum torpedo launcher, 9 photon torpedo launchers). This game only allows you to use no more than 8 weapon slots and 1 special weapon.
You completely jumped off suject and will try to deflect the main purpose of this thread. This thread is about Turret's rate of fire, not anything else.
This game has nothing to do with the bastardized JJ trek movie, and if your bringing examples of the movie why are you not also complaining that Romulans aren't using missiles in game like they did in the movie? If you want to be accurate, the jjprise was firing red blasts...so I guess they were using antiproton weapons then right?
I brought this up not to derail the conversation, but to show an example of something known about a ship which is not evident in the game. I admit I thought it was in the nose not simply mounted to the hull somewhere.
You say I have selective reading but you ignore the bit where I say that even the Star Trek Movies and TV series have little baring on this game.
The JJ movies are not only in the past but it's an alternative past to the games time line. As for the movie I can't say it resonated with me as well as the TNG or TOS shows. So I guess I wasn't paying attention to the turret fire in it.
So let's talk about the Turrets rate of fire than.
You want it to shoot faster, but you never explained how it should shoot faster?
Does this mean the DPS will not change? Will it shoot more shots faster at a lower damage, or it will shoot faster with a longer cooldown?
Now more shots becomes unbalancing because it increases the Proc rate so that is out, so a faster firing pattern with longer cooldowns it what your going to be asking for right?
Now keep in mind you've said that Escorts are pretty powerful (see the red bit) well increasing the fire rate will increase procs or increasing the DPS will also make Escorts that much more powerful in the game. Again something you don't want right?
Do you want there to be a Escort Turret that is the same as the current one and a more powerful Cruiser Turret?
I'm a little confused by that blue bit too, Beams and Turrets have the same base accuracy so beams and turrets hit equally. If you have [Acc] Modifiers on your turrets and none on your beams that could explain this. And of course the yellow bit is just plain wrong.
I don't care where somebody chooses to put their weapons. The turret rate of fire needs to be raised.
Just because the game is not 100% canon doesn't mean it can evolve closer to the Star Trek lore. This game is not some game system cartridge where once the game is sold in stores, there is no changing or tinkering. Quit trying to make excuses to why this game is the way it is and let people push the reality match the lore canonism.
I don't care where somebody chooses to put their weapons. The turret rate of fire needs to be raised.
Just because the game is not 100% canon doesn't mean it can evolve closer to the Star Trek lore. This game is not some game system cartridge where once the game is sold in stores, there is no changing or tinkering. Quit trying to make excuses to why this game is the way it is and let people push the reality match the lore canonism.
Why does it need to be raised, just because you think it does? Give me some real life examples of phaser turrets functioning and I will agree with you.
Turrets don't NEED to have there speed increased, they do their job and they do it fine how it is.
I don't care where somebody chooses to put their weapons. The turret rate of fire needs to be raised.
Just because the game is not 100% canon doesn't mean it can evolve closer to the Star Trek lore. This game is not some game system cartridge where once the game is sold in stores, there is no changing or tinkering. Quit trying to make excuses to why this game is the way it is and let people push the reality match the lore canonism.
I very specifically asked how you want them faster? I'm still waiting on the answer?
Personally of all the problems this game has I don't think turret fire rate is one of them. In fact I believe your alone in this belief
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why. When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Why does it need to be raised, just because you think it does? Give me some real life examples of phaser turrets functioning and I will agree with you.
Turrets don't NEED to have there speed increased, they do their job and they do it fine how it is.
Real, life we don't have phasers, but we do have laser turrets being worked on by the Navy to combat smaller craft the would pull up closer to the ships's side. It is called LaWS, look it up. I'm not ure if its a steady beam or a pulse. i think for starters that it is solid state.
Believe what you will, I just want the turret rate of fire raise by 2 or 3 more shot per second.
Turret rate is currently 3 shots over 2s.
Adding 2 shots per a second would see a Turret fire 7 shots per a firing cycle.
So does that mean with more shots fired that each shot will do less Damage as so not to change the the DPS value of turrets.
More shots per second means more procs which is itself unbalancing or do you want it to fire it's 3 shots in say .75 of a second and have a longer cooldown?
You keep avoiding the very important question of how you raise the firing rate.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why. When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Real, life we don't have phasers, but we do have laser turrets being worked on by the Navy to combat smaller craft the would pull up closer to the ships's side. It is called LaWS, look it up. I'm not ure if its a steady beam or a pulse. i think for starters that it is solid state.
Well we aren't talking about lasers or LaWS...there are no phasers in real life as we know so comparing them to anything in rl is pointless.
They aren't going to change the rate of fire without reducing the damage, they aren't going to make a cosmetic change for one person. I would be smart enough not to ask them to, especially considering if might break something and cause even more bugs. >.<
What i'm saying is that the rate of fire in this game doesn't make sense. Think about real life turrets, or turrets in the Star Trek universe. In real life, the one turret on a US Naval Ship is Phalanx CIW, a 20mm gun which fire 4,500 rounds/minute. then there is the Mk-46 GWS, a remotely operated naval gun system that uses a 30mm high velocity cannon. It fires 200 rounds/minute. The main gun on most modern warships, is the Mk 45 Naval artillery gun that fires 20 rounds/minute. As you can see, the more powerful the weapon, the slower the rate of fire.
Put one of those on the back of an old space shuttle and watch what happens.
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
nice to see that anotherone of the old forum trolls made into the new forum...
only one i'm still missing is the Orion female fleet leader drama queen. Anybody seen her, wouldn't be the STO forum without the troll triumvirat.:(
Obviously, you fail to appreciate the gamebreaking seriousness of this issue. :rolleyes:
I haven't been able to TRIBBLE right since I realized that my antiproton turrets do not fire as fast as the ones in real life. But it isn't just my gastric discomfort, think of the children!
For those of you who say the 360 firing arc compensates the meager damage output of the turrets I ask you to try this:
Get a cruiser. 8 weapon slots.
Equip turrets. In all slots. Purple Mk11
Put an EPS module. Pump weapon power to 125.
Go try to kill a single probe in elite STF.
It will only manage to kill it just before it reaches the gate.
Turrets suck THAT much. The 360 arc in no way compensates for the lack of damage. At all.
Now, put just 3 beam arrays.. white quality ones mk 10. The drone will be dead asap. Thats 180 degree firing arc. 3 white mk10 beam arrays > 8 purple mk11 turrets. 'nuff said.
Turrets should be given a significant boost. Increase the number of shots per cycle to 3x current amount and lower their power costs to just 1.
-or-
give them extra secondary effects. shield regen disruption, hull regen disruption, radiation damage... something.
For those of you who say the 360 firing arc compensates the meager damage output of the turrets I ask you to try this:
Get a cruiser. 8 weapon slots.
Equip turrets. In all slots. Purple Mk11
Put an EPS module. Pump weapon power to 125.
Go try to kill a single probe in elite STF.
It will only manage to kill it just before it reaches the gate.
Turrets suck THAT much. The 360 arc in no way compensates for the lack of damage. At all.
Now, put just 3 beam arrays.. white quality ones mk 10. The drone will be dead asap. Thats 180 degree firing arc. 3 white mk10 beam arrays > 8 purple mk11 turrets. 'nuff said.
Turrets should be given a significant boost. Increase the number of shots per cycle to 3x current amount and lower their power costs to just 1.
-or-
give them extra secondary effects. shield regen disruption, hull regen disruption, radiation damage... something.
You've got it all wrong, turrets are not a substitute for beams.
Beams are used to broadside your target or you can have 1 equipped to take advantage of beam abilities/ beam overloads for e.g.
Turrets are meant to be used in aft position to add to frontal dps of dual/heavycannon builds in conjunction with rapid fire. That's why they have 360 degrees.
If you boost turrets escort flyers will get an overpowered boost to effectiveness.
Turrets are fine.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Your Ramming Speed III deals 52098 (99235) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Remus.
You've got it all wrong, turrets are not a substitute for beams.
The point is 3 beams > 8 turrets damage wise. The 360 turret arc argument is invalidated right there.
Beams are used to broadside your target or you can have 1 equipped to take advantage of beam abilities/ beam overloads for e.g.
I dont need to broadside if 3 beams do more damage than 8 turrets... to beat the damage of 8 turrets that is. Therefore there is no reason to equip 8 turrets since 3 beams will not only outdamage the turrets but they will also be able to use the abilities you mention.
Turrets are meant to be used in aft position to add to frontal dps of dual/heavycannon builds in conjunction with rapid fire. That's why they have 360 degrees.
No, see that is where you are wrong. The numbers show that an escort doing a firing run gets insignificant dps bonus from the rear turrets... and when the escort turns to go for another pass or flies over the target, if he had 3 rear beams, those 3 beams would, at that point, do MORE damage than 3 rear turrets ever did on the way in even if they were using cannon abilities. Turrets are that badly under performing in damage.
If you boost turrets escort flyers will get an overpowered boost to effectiveness.
Turrets are fine.
The boost to turrets does not necessarily have to be given to the weapons themselves.
The bonus could be given to ships. Science ships, carriers and cruisers could be given +turret bonus as an innate boost thus making the turrets viable weapons in those ships. Which makes sense since they cannot turn that well. The less the turn rate the bigger the bonus.
The bonus (whether applied to ship or to weapon) does not need to be +Damage or +rate of fire ... it could simply be given as a sort of 'efficiency' bonus. Efficient at low power levels turret could deliver higher damage than they do now at max power level. Think on how that would benefit the dps-starved cruisers, carriers and science ships.
-or- the turrets could be turned into something similar to quad cannons: a mix of wep power and AUX power to deliver damage. That would definitely make sci ships, carriers and cruisers happy and the turrets functional.
First off I would like to know where you got these numbers skyfaller? Second off turrets weren't meant to be a solo weapon and you normally don't see a all turret build except on maybe slow carriers and even that is rare.
Turrets are fine, your example throws out everything we know about the games design.
First Beams are 270 degrees, Single Cannons are 180.
8 Turrets suck compared to just 3 beams. True. 8 Turrets where never meant to be the only weapons on a ship. Beams on the other hand do work well as the only weapons on a ship.
Also while we are at it 8 Turrets at what range? Under 5km is the magic number for cannons so did you keep the ship in optimal range the whole time or does it drift into and out of range.
Turrets provide synergy with Cannons, not with other turrets, not with beams and not with Torpedoes. Let's not forget that those Turrets would have fired more shots than your beams in the above example with the beams getting a mere 12 chances to proc where the turrets got 48 chances. Meaning at least one of them should have worked.
Now in reality your Cruiser layout should have been 4 Single Cannons, 4 Turrets. If it's a Gal X you could be using a few DHC's in there too.
Turn rate? Hmm Aux2D, Evasive Manuvers, Subspace Jump which is easier to get for Feds than Klingons.
Taking Turrets and making examples about how they suck is easy when you ignore things.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why. When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
No, see that is where you are wrong. The numbers show that an escort doing a firing run gets insignificant dps bonus from the rear turrets... and when the escort turns to go for another pass or flies over the target, if he had 3 rear beams, those 3 beams would, at that point, do MORE damage than 3 rear turrets ever did on the way in even if they were using cannon abilities. Turrets are that badly under performing in damage.
.
If you think thats true, you need to check those "numbers" you talk about or better yet play the game more.
8 Turrets where never meant to be the only weapons on a ship. ///Turrets provide synergy with Cannons, not with other turrets, not with beams and not with Torpedoes.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Your Ramming Speed III deals 52098 (99235) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Remus.
What i'm saying is that the rate of fire in this game doesn't make sense. Think about real life turrets, or turrets in the Star Trek universe. In real life, the one turret on a US Naval Ship is Phalanx CIW, a 20mm gun which fire 4,500 rounds/minute. then there is the Mk-46 GWS, a remotely operated naval gun system that uses a 30mm high velocity cannon. It fires 200 rounds/minute. The main gun on most modern warships, is the Mk 45 Naval artillery gun that fires 20 rounds/minute. As you can see, the more powerful the weapon, the slower the rate of fire.
If you want to use the sci-fi universe, you can look at any show, Star Wars, Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, etc.,and will see the heavier weapons fire ate a slower rate of fire than smaller weapons. The arc of the weapon is irrelevant to a weapon rate of fire. That why, I say the way this game has the weapons set, doesn't make any sense. For example: the rate of fire for the Defiant and Klingon Birds of Prey in this game fire alot faster than the Defiant and Birds of Prey in the shows and movies. The Devs always use the excuse that they have to follow Star Trek lore when a player wants to make this game more like other MMO's. What happened with the weapons in this game, why aren't they following "Star Trek lore?"
shall we use the REST of the facts about those weapons as well? such as the effective ranges of each of those weapons, I.E., about 4000 yards for CWIS and then about 6 miles for the 30mm and about 15 for the 5"? shall we have range limits on the cannons beams and turrets as well?
Comments
He's not complaining about the damage but the speed at which they fire. Although following this to the logical conclusion he's not saying up the speed lower the damage.
No matter how they change the rate of fire I don't see them changing the all important DPS. Actually I don't see them changing Turrets at all. As 99% of the replies disagree with him.
You have to understand the OP has 1 Turret that he expects to fill the hole between his forward DHC's and rear Beam banks. And compete with the 3 turrets an Escort has
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
It's hard to use a real world example of a phaser. You picked very subjective turrets for your real world examples too.
You compared real world machine guns to fictional anti-ship weapons and found the anti-ship turrets to be too slow. That is neither practical or a good idea.
Transformers had a race of Giant Transforming robots, this has nothing to do with Star Trek. Much like Battlestar Galactica and Babylon 5 have nothing to do with Star Trek, even the Star Trek TV and Movies have nothing to do with the rate of turret fire in STO because of Game balance and I don't remember seeing a turret or a weapon described as such on the screen.
The Sovereign has a Phaser Cannon mounted in the nose that can be manually fired on paper, never used it in the movies. They doesn't mean the Sovereign gets to be a 5/4 Cruiser with 1 forward slot permantly taken up by a Phaser Cannon.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
You have this selective reading problem. You just disregarded that I did mention Star Trek as one of the sci-fi movies. You claim you seen the movies but it seems you don't pay attention to detail. The newest Star Trek movie done by J. J. Abrams, has the ships armed with turrets, not stationary banks, arrays or cannons, but turrets. They didn't fire slow like the turrets in this game.
I'm not talking about the Sovereign or it's cannons that I believe you just made up. I just read the schematics on the Sovereign class and there is no mention of cannons anywhere. You can't use drawing board blueprints and concepts because they don't necessarrily make it onto the ship used in shows and movies. Just like the Enterprise-A was to have sauser separation, thought of by the man who drew and made the ship model, but the directors didn't want that ability, so it didn't become reality.
Its quite obvious that they don't use every weapon a ship is supposed to have. Like the Sovereign Class standard is 12 phaser arrays, 1 quantom torpedo launcher, and 4 Phonton torpedo launchers(the refit has 16 phaser arrays, and 1 quantum torpedo launcher, 9 photon torpedo launchers). This game only allows you to use no more than 8 weapon slots and 1 special weapon.
You completely jumped off suject and will try to deflect the main purpose of this thread. This thread is about Turret's rate of fire, not anything else.
I brought this up not to derail the conversation, but to show an example of something known about a ship which is not evident in the game. I admit I thought it was in the nose not simply mounted to the hull somewhere.
You say I have selective reading but you ignore the bit where I say that even the Star Trek Movies and TV series have little baring on this game.
The JJ movies are not only in the past but it's an alternative past to the games time line. As for the movie I can't say it resonated with me as well as the TNG or TOS shows. So I guess I wasn't paying attention to the turret fire in it.
So let's talk about the Turrets rate of fire than.
You want it to shoot faster, but you never explained how it should shoot faster?
Does this mean the DPS will not change? Will it shoot more shots faster at a lower damage, or it will shoot faster with a longer cooldown?
Now more shots becomes unbalancing because it increases the Proc rate so that is out, so a faster firing pattern with longer cooldowns it what your going to be asking for right?
Now keep in mind you've said that Escorts are pretty powerful (see the red bit) well increasing the fire rate will increase procs or increasing the DPS will also make Escorts that much more powerful in the game. Again something you don't want right?
Do you want there to be a Escort Turret that is the same as the current one and a more powerful Cruiser Turret?
I'm a little confused by that blue bit too, Beams and Turrets have the same base accuracy so beams and turrets hit equally. If you have [Acc] Modifiers on your turrets and none on your beams that could explain this. And of course the yellow bit is just plain wrong.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
I could be mistaken though.
I know turrets being cannons have a massive DPS drop over 5k of range, but what your saying is now completely opposite to what the original poster has said.
I don't remember if a long time ago (S1) beams had more accuracy than cannons but I was under the impression all weapons had the same basics.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
This game has nothing to do with the bastardized JJ trek movie, and if your bringing examples of the movie why are you not also complaining that Romulans aren't using missiles in game like they did in the movie? If you want to be accurate, the jjprise was firing red blasts...so I guess they were using antiproton weapons then right?
I don't care where somebody chooses to put their weapons. The turret rate of fire needs to be raised.
Just because the game is not 100% canon doesn't mean it can evolve closer to the Star Trek lore. This game is not some game system cartridge where once the game is sold in stores, there is no changing or tinkering. Quit trying to make excuses to why this game is the way it is and let people push the reality match the lore canonism.
Why does it need to be raised, just because you think it does? Give me some real life examples of phaser turrets functioning and I will agree with you.
Turrets don't NEED to have there speed increased, they do their job and they do it fine how it is.
I very specifically asked how you want them faster? I'm still waiting on the answer?
Personally of all the problems this game has I don't think turret fire rate is one of them. In fact I believe your alone in this belief
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Ok, here goes: Turrets have the fastest (space) firing rate in the game.
Delays are easily deduced when we're given DPV and DPS (delay=DPS/DPV);
Turrets/Cannons/DCs: .75s
Arrays/DBBs: 1.25s
DHCs: 1.5s
Torpedoes/Mines: varies by type.
Real, life we don't have phasers, but we do have laser turrets being worked on by the Navy to combat smaller craft the would pull up closer to the ships's side. It is called LaWS, look it up. I'm not ure if its a steady beam or a pulse. i think for starters that it is solid state.
Turret rate is currently 3 shots over 2s.
Adding 2 shots per a second would see a Turret fire 7 shots per a firing cycle.
So does that mean with more shots fired that each shot will do less Damage as so not to change the the DPS value of turrets.
More shots per second means more procs which is itself unbalancing or do you want it to fire it's 3 shots in say .75 of a second and have a longer cooldown?
You keep avoiding the very important question of how you raise the firing rate.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Well we aren't talking about lasers or LaWS...there are no phasers in real life as we know so comparing them to anything in rl is pointless.
They aren't going to change the rate of fire without reducing the damage, they aren't going to make a cosmetic change for one person. I would be smart enough not to ask them to, especially considering if might break something and cause even more bugs. >.<
nice to see that anotherone of the old forum trolls made into the new forum...
only one i'm still missing is the Orion female fleet leader drama queen. Anybody seen her, wouldn't be the STO forum without the troll triumvirat.:(
Put one of those on the back of an old space shuttle and watch what happens.
Obviously, you fail to appreciate the gamebreaking seriousness of this issue. :rolleyes:
I haven't been able to TRIBBLE right since I realized that my antiproton turrets do not fire as fast as the ones in real life. But it isn't just my gastric discomfort, think of the children!
Something must be done!!
:P
Get a cruiser. 8 weapon slots.
Equip turrets. In all slots. Purple Mk11
Put an EPS module. Pump weapon power to 125.
Go try to kill a single probe in elite STF.
It will only manage to kill it just before it reaches the gate.
Turrets suck THAT much. The 360 arc in no way compensates for the lack of damage. At all.
Now, put just 3 beam arrays.. white quality ones mk 10. The drone will be dead asap. Thats 180 degree firing arc. 3 white mk10 beam arrays > 8 purple mk11 turrets. 'nuff said.
Turrets should be given a significant boost. Increase the number of shots per cycle to 3x current amount and lower their power costs to just 1.
-or-
give them extra secondary effects. shield regen disruption, hull regen disruption, radiation damage... something.
You've got it all wrong, turrets are not a substitute for beams.
Beams are used to broadside your target or you can have 1 equipped to take advantage of beam abilities/ beam overloads for e.g.
Turrets are meant to be used in aft position to add to frontal dps of dual/heavycannon builds in conjunction with rapid fire. That's why they have 360 degrees.
If you boost turrets escort flyers will get an overpowered boost to effectiveness.
Turrets are fine.
Your Ramming Speed III deals 52098 (99235) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Remus.
The point is 3 beams > 8 turrets damage wise. The 360 turret arc argument is invalidated right there.
I dont need to broadside if 3 beams do more damage than 8 turrets... to beat the damage of 8 turrets that is. Therefore there is no reason to equip 8 turrets since 3 beams will not only outdamage the turrets but they will also be able to use the abilities you mention.
No, see that is where you are wrong. The numbers show that an escort doing a firing run gets insignificant dps bonus from the rear turrets... and when the escort turns to go for another pass or flies over the target, if he had 3 rear beams, those 3 beams would, at that point, do MORE damage than 3 rear turrets ever did on the way in even if they were using cannon abilities. Turrets are that badly under performing in damage.
The boost to turrets does not necessarily have to be given to the weapons themselves.
The bonus could be given to ships. Science ships, carriers and cruisers could be given +turret bonus as an innate boost thus making the turrets viable weapons in those ships. Which makes sense since they cannot turn that well. The less the turn rate the bigger the bonus.
The bonus (whether applied to ship or to weapon) does not need to be +Damage or +rate of fire ... it could simply be given as a sort of 'efficiency' bonus. Efficient at low power levels turret could deliver higher damage than they do now at max power level. Think on how that would benefit the dps-starved cruisers, carriers and science ships.
-or- the turrets could be turned into something similar to quad cannons: a mix of wep power and AUX power to deliver damage. That would definitely make sci ships, carriers and cruisers happy and the turrets functional.
First Beams are 270 degrees, Single Cannons are 180.
8 Turrets suck compared to just 3 beams. True. 8 Turrets where never meant to be the only weapons on a ship. Beams on the other hand do work well as the only weapons on a ship.
Also while we are at it 8 Turrets at what range? Under 5km is the magic number for cannons so did you keep the ship in optimal range the whole time or does it drift into and out of range.
Turrets provide synergy with Cannons, not with other turrets, not with beams and not with Torpedoes. Let's not forget that those Turrets would have fired more shots than your beams in the above example with the beams getting a mere 12 chances to proc where the turrets got 48 chances. Meaning at least one of them should have worked.
Now in reality your Cruiser layout should have been 4 Single Cannons, 4 Turrets. If it's a Gal X you could be using a few DHC's in there too.
Turn rate? Hmm Aux2D, Evasive Manuvers, Subspace Jump which is easier to get for Feds than Klingons.
Taking Turrets and making examples about how they suck is easy when you ignore things.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
If you think thats true, you need to check those "numbers" you talk about or better yet play the game more.
Your Ramming Speed III deals 52098 (99235) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Remus.
turrets get the same ROF increase all the other cannons do.
shall we use the REST of the facts about those weapons as well? such as the effective ranges of each of those weapons, I.E., about 4000 yards for CWIS and then about 6 miles for the 30mm and about 15 for the 5"? shall we have range limits on the cannons beams and turrets as well?