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Why Turrets?
alexindcobra
Member Posts: 608
Why is the rate of fire for turrets and reguler cannons so slow? Turrets are already weak weapons, why handicap it further with a rate of fire that make the weapon almost non-existant? I use a turret in concert with cannons, heavy cannons, and beams. I pick the turret to make up for the blind spots that beams and cannons leave behind. The problem is that the turrets fire too slow to do much, even against NPC's, let alone players. Why do do you think Deferi Ships can't defend themselves? I will tell you, because they are armed with just one turret that fire 2 shot per second. At that rate, they abosolutle do nothing to the enemy. Rapid fire barely increase the rate of fire to 5 shots per second. That is laughable. Regular cannons are also quite slow in rate of fire but faster the the turrets in rapid fire. Rapid Cannon Fire 1 is all that a cruiser captain can use except for the Oddyssey, but it can't mount heavy cannons. RCF 1 does not sustain longer than 5 seconds and has a 10 sec cooldown, while RCF 2 and 3 are almost never ending and only availble to escort captains. That is total BS and goes against the Cryptic's so called game balance. There is no balance when most players in PVP are in carriers or escorts, because canon cruisers are hadicaped in their abilities, so you need weapons other than beams to protect the blind spots. Beams in this game miss fighters alot, while turrets don't miss. Its doesn't make sense to have the smaller weaker weapons shoot slow like P shooters while heavy cannons fire like a repeating machine gun.
The point I'm trying to drive home is that turrets need a faster rate of fire. I'm talking to you, Devs.
The point I'm trying to drive home is that turrets need a faster rate of fire. I'm talking to you, Devs.
Post edited by alexindcobra on
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Upping the firerate would leed to less damage per shot to keep everything equal.
Except for visuals it would change nothing at all.
[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent
Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
Not that it has to be said again since its been said enough times but turrets have a 360 degree arc, they are balanced around that. They are the only weapon in the game you can load on your aft and still fire if you keep your fore on your target.
They aren't meant to be powerful, they are meant to be useful.
I think the fact that your mixing Beams and Cannons with Turrets is your problem, Beams or Cannons and Turrets will result in better builds.
The funny thing is some of the builds I see claim a high rate of fire for turrets allowing for a near constant Disruptor proc. 3 shots every 2s if I recall correctly.
But as is typical for this poster, he's not wrong, the game is wrong. As proven by pretty much every thread he starts complaining an aspect of the game is not powerful enough.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Your not making sense by not reading what was said. They Fire 360 arc. Thats Constant DPS. Others Dont have a Constant DPS wich balences things out. If they got a Hire Rate of fire the DPS would increase. thus a Nerf would be made to the DPS. On my Carrier i use them I have no issuse i also rotate from Scatter volly to Rapid which adds to my DPS and Rate of Fire!
Ask yourself: Do you do more DPS with 4 dual heavy cannons on the front of your escort and 3 beam arrays on the back?
When you attack and enemy, those aft weapons aren't firing. They are providing 0 DPS.
Now replace those aft weapons with turrets. Now you have both front and back weapons firing forward. Regardless of how little DPS turrets bring by themselves, the fact remains that a little more DPS is still better than nothing at all.
What I want to know is: Where did you get this idea that they fire slower than beam weapons? I've always noticed the same rate of fire for both weapon types- shots and beams. They haven't been nerfed at all, at least not in the last 6 months.
-The Milkshake Song: Vulcan Edition
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Just a point here, All levels of Cannon Rapid Fire and Cannon Scatter Volley have a 10 second uptime, a 30 second cooldown and a 15s system wide cooldown. By running two copies of this and TT1 an Escort keeps it's buffs up 2/3 of the time or 66% not 100%. Even with DOFF enhanced cooldowns both the Tac Team and the Cannon Rapid/Scatter have a 15s system wide cooldown that can not be bypassed.
If your going to complain about how the mechanics work against you at least get them right.
The higher Rapid Fires shoot more rounds per burst and I believe both Beam Fire at Will and Scatter Volley hit more targets at higher levels.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Rapid Cannon Fire increase the cannons rate of fire substantially, but not help turrets much. There mixing cannons, beams and turrets, as long as you have enough console to back them up. I flying a Dread, so go figure. I didn't ask for them make more powerful, just speed up the rate of fire, proportionately for the turrets.
-The Milkshake Song: Vulcan Edition
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I don't know what you are talking about? My cooldown is not 30 secs. It all depends on the DOFF set up, but we are not talking about doffs. The subject is about turret rate of fire, by default.
"But as is typical for this poster, he's not wrong, the game is wrong. As proven by pretty much every thread he starts complaining an aspect of the game is not powerful enough."
If you will continue to attack "the poster" everytime you jump into someone else's thread and disagree, then this "poster will disregard anything that will come out of your post, as if you said nothing.
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It is a peculiar phenomenon that we can imagine events that defy the laws of the universe.
What i'm saying is that the rate of fire in this game doesn't make sense. Think about real life turrets, or turrets in the Star Trek universe. In real life, the one turret on a US Naval Ship is Phalanx CIW, a 20mm gun which fire 4,500 rounds/minute. then there is the Mk-46 GWS, a remotely operated naval gun system that uses a 30mm high velocity cannon. It fires 200 rounds/minute. The main gun on most modern warships, is the Mk 45 Naval artillery gun that fires 20 rounds/minute. As you can see, the more powerful the weapon, the slower the rate of fire.
If you want to use the sci-fi universe, you can look at any show, Star Wars, Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, etc.,and will see the heavier weapons fire ate a slower rate of fire than smaller weapons. The arc of the weapon is irrelevant to a weapon rate of fire. That why, I say the way this game has the weapons set, doesn't make any sense. For example: the rate of fire for the Defiant and Klingon Birds of Prey in this game fire alot faster than the Defiant and Birds of Prey in the shows and movies. The Devs always use the excuse that they have to follow Star Trek lore when a player wants to make this game more like other MMO's. What happened with the weapons in this game, why aren't they following "Star Trek lore?"
First effect would be damage (of course).
Second effect would be the weapon type effect.
Third effect would be dependent on the boff ability that is being used.
Rapid Fire: adds +25% chance to crit (damage)
Volley Fire: adds +25% chance to inflict second effect.
...and allow them to be used for subsystem attacks. They're turrets..they fire small enough rounds and their 360 degree line of fire would make them ideal for subsystem targeting.
You posted a question on the forum, then attacked players that had completely useful responses. They make sense.
Turrets have a slower rate of fire and lower damage output per volly b/c of their 360 degree firing arc. This is due to game mechanics not allowing an 8x Turret Boat to completely dominate the field.
If you want the rate to be higher on turrets, then the damage output would need to be lowered, by your RL scenerio. Anybody would be able to get off more shots from shooting a small-caliber automatic rifle, rather than a bazooka.
I use 3x turrets aft and 1x DBB w/3x DHC fore on my escort. I don't seem to have much of a problem, and I'm not a god at this game. I'm also not attacking people w/any useful input on any thread when I'm asking for help or support from the players to get something noticed by the company(s).
Ok, using examples of real life weapons is completely ridiculous... :rolleyes:
Turrets are balanced. They may not fire fast enough for you, but that is irrelevant. The only thing that matters are the numbers.
Once again, what happens in some movie has no bearing on game mechanics; and this is as it should be.
But I do have a solution for you and all you will need is a small flashlight.
The next time your turrets fire, start making motorboat noises while quickly flashing your flashlight into your eyes. It will be just like the turrets are firing faster. Better even as you can pretend that you are being blinded by therie awesome power...:P
And my solution makes a lot more sense than your thread...just saying...
I use all turrets on my main character's ships. Combine them with the rapid fire skill, and they are quite effective.
The bonus of a turret (and the reason it has a slower fire rate and lower damage) is that it fires into all firing arcs. With 6 turrets equipped, that allows 6 weapons to fire into every firing arc. If those same slots were replaced with beams, only 3 weapons could fire into 2 of the firing arcs, and 6 in only 2 arcs.
If you make a list of all the DPS figures for each weapon you have, and listed what arcs they fire into, you'd see that equipping all turrets INCREASES your overall DPS effectiveness (despite their lower damage). That's because more of them can fire at any enemy.
That's not to say that they are overpowered, they are not. I have other ship builds that use all beams, some that use cannons, etc.
They are perfectly balanced as is.
You don't know what I'm talking about? But I quoted you saying that CRF1 only has a 5 second uptime and I pointed out it infact has a 10s uptime.
Real world machine guns are not a good analogue to Star Trek Online weapons. I mean you compared machine guns to laser turrets? What is the firing rate of a Naval Laser cannon? What are you asking for, the ability to lower the caliber of the Turret so that it fires faster. Maybe if you get it down to 1 dps per shot it will look like a beam.
This is precisely the point I made which you mistook for an insult. You want the game changed to suit your vision of how it should be. Rather than accepting the game for what it is, and adjusting your vision.
I don't want 3 turrets on the back of my Intrepid, I'd like them to be 3 beams which can shoot forward, but that won't happen so I use turrets. I think somebody else said the exact same thing.
This game has to disregard 100% show accuracy to make the game fun and balanced. Do you think Starfleet would allow officers to put on any uniform the captain liked? No of course not but in the game it's a customisation option.
There are more promotions in a week of STO than in all the episodes or movies of Star Trek combined. And I'm talking about just my ship. I remember seeing one and only one promotion in the entire series of TNG, and that was Worf making Lt.Com. I prefer to ignore the JJ Abrams Movie but that brings our total to 3.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Think I might just have to spend a weekend in Memory Alpha and make some nice shiny new turrets.
Hold up, you have no Idea about the conversation between me and that other poster because there is an old rivalry from old Cryptic forums. You can disagree without calling people out and telling them that they just always wrong. That was message was for him.
Its no fun when you fly a ship that this game decides to cripple with rediculously slow turn rate. Turrest should be there to help ships who can't turn fast enough to keep aim on zipping escorts. The rate of fire is not realistic in real world or sci-fi world. Maybe you like they way things are in this game, but I don't and I want this game to stay true to Star Trek and not drift off into "Never Never Land." What you think is fun is somone else's misery. Intrepid is not crippled by slow turn rate as much as large cruisers and carriers, so you may not have the need for them as much.
Seriously, did you just actually post this? lol
#1 Pick a ship that turns faster. If you pick the slow turning majesty of the Galaxy Class than deal with it.
#2 Turrets are not there to help slow ships who can't turn fast enough. They are there to provide 360 degree Cannon Fire.
#3 Rate of Fire not Realistic? I don't know about you but my real life Phaser Turret doesn't exist. Turret does not imply a rate of fire, it implies a gun on a swivel mount, like a Tank Turret. Tanks are not known for their high rate of Fire. Battleships also had Turrets for there large guns again not known for their High rate of fire. High Speed firing does not go hand in hand with Turrets.
#4 The usual argument from you, the game is not fun because Turrets don't shoot fast enough or that Manual Shield Distribution is too slow. I have to question why if everything is wrong with this game that you continue to play it
#5 Some Science builds are based around a forward 90 arc (Torpedo, DBB, Lots of Sci abilities), putting anything other than turrets on the back of such a ship means they won't be shooting at your intended target or at all most of the time.
I run my Cruisers as either a 6 Beam boat for broadsiding or Cannons with an ability to increase their turn rate Dramatically. I think you may be better off going to Cannons and Turrets and using Aux to Dampeners to compensate for the turn rate... Oh wait Compensate that's something the game should do to suit you, not what you should do to suit the game.
In nearly two years of this game I have never seen anyone complain about the rate of turret fire. Than again I've never seen anyone seriously consider the DPS of a single turret as vital. Oh yeah I run 3 Turrets on the back of my Escort (and one of my Cruisers) and those babies are worth about 6k DPS, but we all know the meat of my Damage is the 3 DHCs in the front.
I have tried 6 Turrets on a Carrier, I found switching to Beams and getting Aux to Dampeners a bigger increase to my DPS than chaining CRF.
Just for the record I don't see any rivalry with you at all, I just never agree with a thing you say like 99% of the people who respond to your posts.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Guys,
come on now.
Don't abuse this poor OP
Lets up the Turret rate of fire, boost its damage, and lower the energy cost.
Woot woot!