Yes. On an Atrox built for tanking, you have lots and lots of shield heals. Using EPTS only leads to not using all of your shield heals while your hull eventually blows up from what comes through occasionally.
No, on the "USS Tolerance" you have lots and lots of shield heals, marred by long and shared cooldowns. With a real ship (I wouldn't fly the carrier personally but I can build one in my sleep) you wouldn't need more than one and TT, letting you dish out freebies to your team and just generally being both a threat with the tastier Sci powers and a good upstanding member of your community, i.e. your pug team.
Dalnar, this isn't about min-maxing vs. fun builds. My point that I'm stressing over and over is that no one can post comments about a fun build, because we ultimately don't even know what the facts are or what the criteria for judging a ship should be. With a fun build, the only one who can comment is the person who finds it fun. It makes for silly thread material.
I propose we make an experiment: Post your build in a serious thread like this one, asking for comments. Look how the more immature elements of the PvP community react.
Even though I know this comment is not about me. I figured I'd respond before I crash to dream land to this statement here.
If your going to post a thread asking for comments, you had best be ready for not only criticism, but also accept if/when you are wrong. And be willing to accept help, instead of mock it, and disregard ANY help you get regardless of how it's presented.
Personally, I've done what you've suggested in not just this game, but others. I've had my share of being trolled or flamed posts, but I've also been mature enough to listen to what people had to say that were actually trying to help, and been better off for it.
You've been bad mouthing, insulting, and a down right jerk when some one has just been trying to be helpful, and even polight. So don't be surprised when those same people turn around and start to snap your head off for your own additude and comments.
I my self will never say a build is bad when it comes to PVE. Because in PVE, anything is plausable. But NEVER judge your performance in PVE against the players you will run into in PVP matches. Weither it's 1v1 or 10v10.
If your going to try to fly the Atrox as a Tactical Officer in PVP, don't waste your Fore Weapon slots with Dual Cannons/Dual Heavy Cannons. Why is it a Waste? You said you already know the reasons. Yet you insist on using them anyway. If it was a Vor'quv, You'd at least have Rapid fire/Scatter Volley 2 AND 1 to use. Still a bad idea, but at least you'd have the tools avaliable. In an Atrox, you don't. So please, do us all a favor, and try to use what many will call a better set up. If you MUST use Cannon type damage, use Single Cannons. Other wise, stick to Beams.
It must be late, not only am I almost on the verge of a Wall of Text, I'm actually trying to help you again. Better be greatful, because I'll be damned if I do it when I'm actually not groggy.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Now no one ever said that the only use for a Tac captain is in an all-cannon escort. That's just throwing your toys down and stomping off home. I've seen Eng captains outperform Tacs in escorts (it works a lot better than you'd think). Sure, there are very general rules which hold true, but powers in this game are diverse and there are all kinds of off-the-wall builds that work. The Vor'cha is almost as sluggish as the Atrox and yet people fly them as Tacs all the time.
You could build an Atrox for a tactical captain in your sleep? Cool for you. I cannot. Yet (this being a game) I want to find out how to get the most out of the ship. find out myself, that is. By trying stuff out. Not by following orders barked at me by unfriendly strangers in a forum.
But yes, I am very close to the final conclusion that it is not possible, under current circumstances, to have a tactical captain command anything but an escort with an all-cannon build. If that conclusions turns out the be correct, that is sad for the game.
Welp im sorry our input (which you asked for btw and disragarded) let you down the long road to the easiest anwser (which weve been telling you) Atrox is carrier/ support ship. Its not a damage dealer thats not how the class was designed to be played, as you and your calculator have deduced. Next time you are looking for anwsers and you just want to get them on your own please dont waste your time asking the community for help when your responses are nothing but contrary. Its counterproductive.
nature of the beast. Carriers are usually ganged up on first as spam gets in their way. Need more tank and team support to survive and support the team. If your continually shooting out runabouts you think your going to be ignored? Fly something more inconspicuous. 1 on 1 im sure your good but queue up in pugs and your play style and strategy might be better served in a support role. You can alway roll another toon for your 1v1 build and another for a team based build. You might enjoy that
Or he can simply have 2 sets of BOs and equipment...
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
If you don't want to be primary target every single time....
1) don't fly a spam box
2) don't act like an arrogant jackass
If you have fun flying the carrier Sophie go to it my friend. I fly odd stuff on all my toons as well from time to time. Some works well some don't work as well but provides me entertainment value. If flying tac carrier does that for you have at it... don't however expect everyone on the PvP forum to nod and agree with you that it somehow works... cause as far as pvp goes and this is the pvp section of the forums it Don't.
Now you can bla bla bla all you like about how we shot ya down before we "tested" it ourselves. However what you need to understand is some of the people responding to you have MUCH MUCH more XP then you do in STO. I don't need to fly a ship to tell you how something is going to work... give me the layout, the defense stats... the turn stats and I will tell you what will work... cause I tested enough TRIBBLE in this game to know. Anyway I can not believe I responded to this... lol
You likely stopped reading after I called you Sophie... but anyway here is my credentials... post yours...
[System] Qaw' Sopta' has been on active duty for 19 days, 22 minutes, 10 seconds.
[System] Qaw' HoS has been on active duty for 7 days, 3 hours, 52 minutes, 16 seconds.
[System] Qaw' chaH has been on active duty for 32 days, 21 hours, 29 minutes, 50 seconds.
[System] Qaw' Hoch has been on active duty for 10 days, 16 hours, 53 minutes, 44 seconds.
[System] Qaw'SoH has been on active duty for 24 days, 5 hours, 4 minutes, 35 seconds.
[System] Qaw' Zen has been on active duty for 3 days, 13 hours, 23 minutes, 16 seconds.
[System] Oizys has been on active duty for 20 days, 15 hours, 4 minutes, 0 seconds.
[System] Hadrian has been on active duty for 18 days, 4 hours, 9 minutes, 50 seconds.
[System] Morrigan has been on active duty for 7 days, 3 hours, 10 minutes, 37 seconds.
[System] Skatha has been on active duty for 12 days, 20 hours, 17 minutes, 10 seconds.
[System] Pascal Vigo has been on active duty for 14 days, 13 hours, 46 minutes, 20 seconds.
A friend asked me earlier and it was on my notepad, I left out a couple Dilithium farmers cause that don't count... anyway it would be interesting to see how many hours you have logged in that cat carrier... before you decided tacs only work in escorts.
PS. I am in no way proud of having spent 16% of the last 2.5 years logged into STO. lmao
Seeing your played time makes feel a lot better now. I felt bad with my 19 days on my fed tac.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Ye, my condolences to your free time lol. It just I now feel that I have not wasted so much time like others did. Feels great.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
If we can put dual heavies in the aft section.... then you could theoretically:
eng batt/evasive
CRF 1
All the usual tac goodies
Feedme Pulse 3
hmmmmmmm
Ok, now i'm off to work.
"No, there is no real problem with P2W in STO. Obviously, if you fight against someone with an equal level of skill in the game, better equipment will give you an edge. But usually, it is the skill level that determines the outcome, not the P2W." -Logimo
If that was the case and it bothered you, you could easily destroy that plan by not replying here.
However, that is not the case anyway. This thread was originally intended as a short display of "that's how one can make it work" and then got a life of its own because lots of people felt and still feel the urge to prove how incredibly awesome and superior they are.
Yep, to the point of people building ships specifically to counter my current build. Which tells a lot about the people who PvP. But PvP is still the best option to test builds and get Dilithium fast.
Funny you make these statements when you've been arguing how superior your ship build is for the last 80 pages...
I AM awesome...
Since you pvp, your arrogant comments about pvp'ers also pertains to you...
Run dual cannons if you want. Hell, the way I see it, the more carriers using stupid things like that, the better
See, I see people who are clearly not the brightest of our conspecifics mocking me for being dumb (...) and for them being able to blow my ship up 3:1 or in a 10-console-ship. That is frustrating, of course. It spoils any fun that I could have, just as those ******* intend. Naturally, I think about switching to the easy way just because those people annoy me too much.
Look, my friend, I can tell you right now that if you think piloting a Tac carrier is hard, you're going to wash out when you try flying an escort. It's by far the most difficult class in the game, which is why so many of us have switched to flying them; a single mistake can be a death sentence and damage actually sticks.
If you find escorts boring (and I can promise that if you try and learn it, you'll never look back, but I digress) there are still dozens of other options that are totally viable, I'm sure a lot of people here would be happy to make suggestions so long as you're open to listening to them.
Soph, (I must be feeling nice today, I left off the last two letters )
Tac Carrier -can- work in pugs.. but certainly not the way your are trying to do it. That being said I have literally seen exactly One Atrox build that I would remotely trust in more than mere pug pvp. And that's because I trust Web Deaths' abilities with a given ship, than I do the ship itself. Web would find a way to be useful in a given situation with his tac cat house.
The thing is, you are burning far far too many of your heals on yourself, and you then load up on yet more heals. The only problem with this, and it's obvious to anyone with even half as much playtime as I have, is Tacs do Damage. Your ship Doesn't. Not on it's own.
Tacs can do great damage with Science Abilities. They don't even need high aux settings to do it either. The thing is your refusal to use EPTS, is literally killing you in arena play. You nom on all your heals are unable to throw them to team mates (while I can, even in an Advanced Escort), and have nothing left on your buff bar. You don't have to worry about bleedthrough really as long as you have shields going. And the times you -do- have to worry about it, you are playing against highly specialized Burn Builds in the first place. Which if you had EPTS, you'd have more room for Hull healing, and offense counter skills in the first place.
Also, if you are able to support team mates and still provide offense you are Doing It Right.
As far as non escort Tacs go, I've done it all, from Carriers, to Cruisers, to Sci ships, Bops, and even Shuttles. Now had you not gone and made a complete TRIBBLE of yourself from day one, you might still have people being Nice and helpful instead of poking fun at you, and posting up Good Builds in the first place so others don't get it twisted and run your builds by mistake.
Here is a breakdown of my toons and what I learned from each.
Firestorm has been on active duty for 61 days, 4 hours, 38 minutes, 15 seconds.
Firestorm is my first toon in STO. I have had him, in Escorts (all 3 of the originals + the mvam and Akira) Shuttles, Cruisers, and Sci ships. Firestorm is the baseline for all of my toons expectations, and where I got my knowledge from. I have had Firestorm in both the Assault and Starcruiser (This was my first real experiment with Limited Tac Slots, and Alternative Damage back in season 1.5) I learned the joys of buffable sci skills and warp plamsa.. which is quite literally the only way to make a starcruiser actually do anything in combat even with a tac at the helm. The ship still sucked so it got sacked, I kept the notes though for future experiments. I put him in the Recon, at two different points in STOs many many patches. Both times I had stumbled upon very effective damage dealing builds, that were also incredibly resilient. Both notes, went straight for my second toon which I was working on sporadically. Firestorm went back to the Beloved Advanced Escort where he's been since then.
Jeson has been on active duty for 21 days, 20 hours, 35 minutes, 45 seconds
Jeson is my first sci. I have had her in the Recon, the Intrepid, a Starcruiser, Excelsior, Advanced Escort, and Mvam. I've put her back in the recon. Jes was the first time I ran dedicated sci builds. I learned alot about shield healing, balancing healing with crowd control, and learned the baselines of what made a Sci good at Sci vs a tac sci. Jes as a Starcruiser I took the lessons of CC I learned from Firestorm and applied it. I had sci flete as an additional massive resist that I could give all of my teammates, along with scattering field (which was called dampening field back then). She made a reasonably good solid healer, and was one of the first healers that ran Extend Shields consistently, because back then? Yeah it only had a 5km range and did not reapply if your buddy left the range. Between the CC, Subnuc and target weapons 1 and 2 that I ran she was utterly annoying to deal with. As a Recon she's run the gamut of GW, Tykens, TBR, PSW, FPB2, FBP3s. I've had her with Cannons, Tri Dbbs, and tri turrets, 6 beam arrays. Oh and can't forget early Viral Matrix experiments.
Fire has been on active duty for 11 days, 23 hours, 22 minutes, 0 seconds.
Fire is my first and only KDF toon. I have had him in Bops, Vorchas, and the Karfi. Fire is the toon I discovered the minimum viable speed and turn rate for DC and DHC weapons (and only DHCs are usable) 22 speed, and 24 turn rate unbuffed. Fire is also the culmination in doing damage with limited tac slots and limited sci slots in my arsenal. He can tank like a boss, and often score within 20 percent of the leader's damage and kill counts, if he's not leading the charge himself. I tested sci heavy bops, and the Karfi, which was just ungodly effective at murdering people with it's Ltcmdr and lt tac slots I actually had people threatening real harm to my person over my Karfi. I put him back in the Vorcha though due solely to my love of the ship. And soon he'll be in the fleet vorcha.
Iceheart has been on active duty for 7 days, 18 hours, 46 minutes, 45 seconds.
Iceheart is the culmination of everything I learned about Cruisers, between previous team mates, my own experiments, and the pvp community through reverse engineering builds. He is capable of good steady damage in full on arenas, through crowd control and high weapon power, but he's best at healing. I have had Iceheart in the starcruiser, assault cruiser and even a nebula. I keep him primarily in the AC because I love the ship. It's also incredibly flexible and quick enough to most of the time keep up with the faster ships on my team.
Ms. Murder has been on active duty for 14 days, 13 hours, 43 minutes, 15 second
This is my ground toon. I had her in an excelsior at one point which was devastatingly effective even in premade pvp. I put her back on the ground where she belonged though. I'm still learning ground, but I'm no chump at it.
Thunder has been on active duty for 12 days, 5 hours, 8 minutes, 25 seconds.
Now this toon, was Built from the ground up to be my Tac Sci. I wound up replacing Firestorm with him as my current fed primary toon. Everything I learned about damage dealing with sci ships was applied directly to Thunder right down to Trait Selection. Right now, the toon bounces between a Recon and an MVAM, but he's going to get a Fleet Nova. My Recon is often the top of the damage and kill charts, and second or third in overall healing. My Recon, is such that I get hate messages consisting of "How the **** do you do that much damage in a sci ship you cheater!" "I hate you. " "Mav never que with that ship again plz... " It can keep pace with Escorts on the charts, pretty regularly. It's infurating to deal with on crowd control, it does great damage, it does only so so healing, but doesn't need more because it's so good at putting people down, or kicking them around or shutting down their subsystems. It is the Tac Maxim applied to science. Do as much damage as physically possible as fast as possible, and you probably won't need nearly as much healing to save your, or your team mates backsides. My Mvam is hardly any slouch either.
These are my Primary Toons, (thats right I have more) which between them all, and what former team mates, friends, and rivals alike have run in pvp, have formed the Backbone of my two major threads. One of which was the most viewed and one of hte most liked threads before the PWE migration. Even on ships I have not personally run, I have gotten nothing but compliments on, because at this point I know enough about the game that I can setup -any- ship in the game and have it work well, not just in pugs, duels or pve. But on Premade levels as well. Tac Atrox though? You won't ever see that in my cruiser or sci threads. Because the ship is like the starcruiser, it's not built for tacs in any capacity for serious play. Now, the Tholian Carrier on the other hand. I have some nasty plans for that one, for tacs, sci and engies alike. I know it'll be devastating as well. Because I learned how to setup ships, through countless hours of play, testing, refinement, and more testing.
For every build that Works, that I posted up I probably tried at least 4 more in my early days that didn't. While I don't know everything, I do know most of it. Or know people that know what I don't and have the ability to ask them for help because I didn't make a complete TRIBBLE of myself on the forums.
Please, quote where I said that, with context (apart from me mocking Mav as a kind retribution for him doing that earlier - that obviously doesn't count.)
Lol...half of this post is a disclaimer about a post you made that describes your build as being superior to mavs...
Damn Mav can crit both with weapons as well as with text walls...
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
I was more talking about building them for DPS. You will agree that this is kind of blatantly obvious how to do it with a tac/escort combination.
Well, no, it really isn't... in fact there are arguments and disagreements all the time over this. There are so many variables and so many things that go into it... some people won't touch torps, some people use GDF to bait, some swear by X energy type, etc. There are builds that are generally agreed upon as being the best all-purpose DPS template, but this again depends almost entirely on the circumstances: are you pugging, are you with a team...
What people have been saying is that your ship needs a purpose in mind. You need to constantly be thinking, "If I get into X scenario, what can I use? How can I be a threat?" You want to be asking how you're using your resources effectively to achieve your goals (this includes your captain choice). Even with escorts that depends on so many different questions.
But yes, I am very close to the final conclusion that it is not possible, under current circumstances, to have a tactical captain command anything but an escort with an all-cannon build. If that conclusions turns out the be correct, that is sad for the game.
I killed you 1v1 in a tac galor build, so other tac builds must be possible...
There have been many ppl in this thread alone that have talked about various tac builds that does not include an all cannon escort build. Funny that you would make a comment like that.
Tac builds are possible in other vessel types besides Escorts and are effective in combat. They are just not the same type of effective as Escorts, which is a vessel that the Tac is designed for in STO.
We can't have all classes equal in effectivness (player ingenuity aside) in all vessel types. There must be an amount of give and take as one moves through the different vessel types or everyone would just fly those vessels that best suit thier class and nothing else.
I was more talking about building them for DPS. You will agree that this is kind of blatantly obvious how to do it with a tac/escort combination.
Actually commanding the ship in battle is certainly something that requires training (and btw, I have commanded escorts in the past, it just wasn't fun for me), but for that, discussion is far less useful than for builds.
But I'll give the Tolerance a few more chances. I just love carrier pets, and lots of them.
Hmmm... there is so much interesting fodder here.....
1 it is only obvious how to do massive dmg in an escort to the narrow minded.
I fly many escort builds
1 runs all cannons
1 runs 2 torps
1 runs 1 beam and cannons
1 runs ALL torps
Some are built to speed tank... some just to slug it out...
Some do pressure dmg... some have more spike then needed and almost no heals.
Use your imagination and have fun... I doubt your Hate of escorts has ANYTHING to do with flying them ever.
Here is something interesting
New Forum Sucks.. but people responded to you so its not hard to find that this was posted by Sophlogimo on 01-26-2012, 05:12 AM.
Hmmm you started the carrier thread 06-04-2012, 09:17 AM
Well, I am one of those new players, and I must say, the game is great, and I have already spent a little money in the C-Store..
I do not understand why people say that there would be only 30 hours of gameplay in this? There are so incredibly many things to do here, even when not counting the Foundry missions... so why do people state such a thing?
Honesty how long exactly did you pilot an escort ?
It is also knee slapping funny that you have said in the past that escorts felt very UN-Trek to you then say you really love to fly ships that act more like a ship from BSG then Trek. Oh the contradiction.
Comments
No, on the "USS Tolerance" you have lots and lots of shield heals, marred by long and shared cooldowns. With a real ship (I wouldn't fly the carrier personally but I can build one in my sleep) you wouldn't need more than one and TT, letting you dish out freebies to your team and just generally being both a threat with the tastier Sci powers and a good upstanding member of your community, i.e. your pug team.
Dalnar, this isn't about min-maxing vs. fun builds. My point that I'm stressing over and over is that no one can post comments about a fun build, because we ultimately don't even know what the facts are or what the criteria for judging a ship should be. With a fun build, the only one who can comment is the person who finds it fun. It makes for silly thread material.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Even though I know this comment is not about me. I figured I'd respond before I crash to dream land to this statement here.
If your going to post a thread asking for comments, you had best be ready for not only criticism, but also accept if/when you are wrong. And be willing to accept help, instead of mock it, and disregard ANY help you get regardless of how it's presented.
Personally, I've done what you've suggested in not just this game, but others. I've had my share of being trolled or flamed posts, but I've also been mature enough to listen to what people had to say that were actually trying to help, and been better off for it.
You've been bad mouthing, insulting, and a down right jerk when some one has just been trying to be helpful, and even polight. So don't be surprised when those same people turn around and start to snap your head off for your own additude and comments.
I my self will never say a build is bad when it comes to PVE. Because in PVE, anything is plausable. But NEVER judge your performance in PVE against the players you will run into in PVP matches. Weither it's 1v1 or 10v10.
If your going to try to fly the Atrox as a Tactical Officer in PVP, don't waste your Fore Weapon slots with Dual Cannons/Dual Heavy Cannons. Why is it a Waste? You said you already know the reasons. Yet you insist on using them anyway. If it was a Vor'quv, You'd at least have Rapid fire/Scatter Volley 2 AND 1 to use. Still a bad idea, but at least you'd have the tools avaliable. In an Atrox, you don't. So please, do us all a favor, and try to use what many will call a better set up. If you MUST use Cannon type damage, use Single Cannons. Other wise, stick to Beams.
It must be late, not only am I almost on the verge of a Wall of Text, I'm actually trying to help you again. Better be greatful, because I'll be damned if I do it when I'm actually not groggy.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Welp im sorry our input (which you asked for btw and disragarded) let you down the long road to the easiest anwser (which weve been telling you) Atrox is carrier/ support ship. Its not a damage dealer thats not how the class was designed to be played, as you and your calculator have deduced. Next time you are looking for anwsers and you just want to get them on your own please dont waste your time asking the community for help when your responses are nothing but contrary. Its counterproductive.
1) don't fly a spam box
2) don't act like an arrogant jackass
If you have fun flying the carrier Sophie go to it my friend. I fly odd stuff on all my toons as well from time to time. Some works well some don't work as well but provides me entertainment value. If flying tac carrier does that for you have at it... don't however expect everyone on the PvP forum to nod and agree with you that it somehow works... cause as far as pvp goes and this is the pvp section of the forums it Don't.
Now you can bla bla bla all you like about how we shot ya down before we "tested" it ourselves. However what you need to understand is some of the people responding to you have MUCH MUCH more XP then you do in STO. I don't need to fly a ship to tell you how something is going to work... give me the layout, the defense stats... the turn stats and I will tell you what will work... cause I tested enough TRIBBLE in this game to know. Anyway I can not believe I responded to this... lol
You likely stopped reading after I called you Sophie... but anyway here is my credentials... post yours...
[System] Qaw' Sopta' has been on active duty for 19 days, 22 minutes, 10 seconds.
[System] Qaw' HoS has been on active duty for 7 days, 3 hours, 52 minutes, 16 seconds.
[System] Qaw' chaH has been on active duty for 32 days, 21 hours, 29 minutes, 50 seconds.
[System] Qaw' Hoch has been on active duty for 10 days, 16 hours, 53 minutes, 44 seconds.
[System] Qaw'SoH has been on active duty for 24 days, 5 hours, 4 minutes, 35 seconds.
[System] Qaw' Zen has been on active duty for 3 days, 13 hours, 23 minutes, 16 seconds.
[System] Oizys has been on active duty for 20 days, 15 hours, 4 minutes, 0 seconds.
[System] Hadrian has been on active duty for 18 days, 4 hours, 9 minutes, 50 seconds.
[System] Morrigan has been on active duty for 7 days, 3 hours, 10 minutes, 37 seconds.
[System] Skatha has been on active duty for 12 days, 20 hours, 17 minutes, 10 seconds.
[System] Pascal Vigo has been on active duty for 14 days, 13 hours, 46 minutes, 20 seconds.
A friend asked me earlier and it was on my notepad, I left out a couple Dilithium farmers cause that don't count... anyway it would be interesting to see how many hours you have logged in that cat carrier... before you decided tacs only work in escorts.
PS. I am in no way proud of having spent 16% of the last 2.5 years logged into STO. lmao
Nothing says sick feeling to the gut then when you realize your pushing half a year in a game barely over 2 years old. haha
R.I.P
and i'm not surprised i can't find an answer to webdeath's post
If we can put dual heavies in the aft section.... then you could theoretically:
eng batt/evasive
CRF 1
All the usual tac goodies
Feedme Pulse 3
hmmmmmmm
Ok, now i'm off to work.
Funny you make these statements when you've been arguing how superior your ship build is for the last 80 pages...
I AM awesome...
Since you pvp, your arrogant comments about pvp'ers also pertains to you...
Run dual cannons if you want. Hell, the way I see it, the more carriers using stupid things like that, the better
Look, my friend, I can tell you right now that if you think piloting a Tac carrier is hard, you're going to wash out when you try flying an escort. It's by far the most difficult class in the game, which is why so many of us have switched to flying them; a single mistake can be a death sentence and damage actually sticks.
If you find escorts boring (and I can promise that if you try and learn it, you'll never look back, but I digress) there are still dozens of other options that are totally viable, I'm sure a lot of people here would be happy to make suggestions so long as you're open to listening to them.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Tac Carrier -can- work in pugs.. but certainly not the way your are trying to do it. That being said I have literally seen exactly One Atrox build that I would remotely trust in more than mere pug pvp. And that's because I trust Web Deaths' abilities with a given ship, than I do the ship itself. Web would find a way to be useful in a given situation with his tac cat house.
The thing is, you are burning far far too many of your heals on yourself, and you then load up on yet more heals. The only problem with this, and it's obvious to anyone with even half as much playtime as I have, is Tacs do Damage. Your ship Doesn't. Not on it's own.
Tacs can do great damage with Science Abilities. They don't even need high aux settings to do it either. The thing is your refusal to use EPTS, is literally killing you in arena play. You nom on all your heals are unable to throw them to team mates (while I can, even in an Advanced Escort), and have nothing left on your buff bar. You don't have to worry about bleedthrough really as long as you have shields going. And the times you -do- have to worry about it, you are playing against highly specialized Burn Builds in the first place. Which if you had EPTS, you'd have more room for Hull healing, and offense counter skills in the first place.
Also, if you are able to support team mates and still provide offense you are Doing It Right.
As far as non escort Tacs go, I've done it all, from Carriers, to Cruisers, to Sci ships, Bops, and even Shuttles. Now had you not gone and made a complete TRIBBLE of yourself from day one, you might still have people being Nice and helpful instead of poking fun at you, and posting up Good Builds in the first place so others don't get it twisted and run your builds by mistake.
Here is a breakdown of my toons and what I learned from each.
Firestorm has been on active duty for 61 days, 4 hours, 38 minutes, 15 seconds.
Firestorm is my first toon in STO. I have had him, in Escorts (all 3 of the originals + the mvam and Akira) Shuttles, Cruisers, and Sci ships. Firestorm is the baseline for all of my toons expectations, and where I got my knowledge from. I have had Firestorm in both the Assault and Starcruiser (This was my first real experiment with Limited Tac Slots, and Alternative Damage back in season 1.5) I learned the joys of buffable sci skills and warp plamsa.. which is quite literally the only way to make a starcruiser actually do anything in combat even with a tac at the helm. The ship still sucked so it got sacked, I kept the notes though for future experiments. I put him in the Recon, at two different points in STOs many many patches. Both times I had stumbled upon very effective damage dealing builds, that were also incredibly resilient. Both notes, went straight for my second toon which I was working on sporadically. Firestorm went back to the Beloved Advanced Escort where he's been since then.
Jeson has been on active duty for 21 days, 20 hours, 35 minutes, 45 seconds
Jeson is my first sci. I have had her in the Recon, the Intrepid, a Starcruiser, Excelsior, Advanced Escort, and Mvam. I've put her back in the recon. Jes was the first time I ran dedicated sci builds. I learned alot about shield healing, balancing healing with crowd control, and learned the baselines of what made a Sci good at Sci vs a tac sci. Jes as a Starcruiser I took the lessons of CC I learned from Firestorm and applied it. I had sci flete as an additional massive resist that I could give all of my teammates, along with scattering field (which was called dampening field back then). She made a reasonably good solid healer, and was one of the first healers that ran Extend Shields consistently, because back then? Yeah it only had a 5km range and did not reapply if your buddy left the range. Between the CC, Subnuc and target weapons 1 and 2 that I ran she was utterly annoying to deal with. As a Recon she's run the gamut of GW, Tykens, TBR, PSW, FPB2, FBP3s. I've had her with Cannons, Tri Dbbs, and tri turrets, 6 beam arrays. Oh and can't forget early Viral Matrix experiments.
Fire has been on active duty for 11 days, 23 hours, 22 minutes, 0 seconds.
Fire is my first and only KDF toon. I have had him in Bops, Vorchas, and the Karfi. Fire is the toon I discovered the minimum viable speed and turn rate for DC and DHC weapons (and only DHCs are usable) 22 speed, and 24 turn rate unbuffed. Fire is also the culmination in doing damage with limited tac slots and limited sci slots in my arsenal. He can tank like a boss, and often score within 20 percent of the leader's damage and kill counts, if he's not leading the charge himself. I tested sci heavy bops, and the Karfi, which was just ungodly effective at murdering people with it's Ltcmdr and lt tac slots I actually had people threatening real harm to my person over my Karfi. I put him back in the Vorcha though due solely to my love of the ship. And soon he'll be in the fleet vorcha.
Iceheart has been on active duty for 7 days, 18 hours, 46 minutes, 45 seconds.
Iceheart is the culmination of everything I learned about Cruisers, between previous team mates, my own experiments, and the pvp community through reverse engineering builds. He is capable of good steady damage in full on arenas, through crowd control and high weapon power, but he's best at healing. I have had Iceheart in the starcruiser, assault cruiser and even a nebula. I keep him primarily in the AC because I love the ship. It's also incredibly flexible and quick enough to most of the time keep up with the faster ships on my team.
Ms. Murder has been on active duty for 14 days, 13 hours, 43 minutes, 15 second
This is my ground toon. I had her in an excelsior at one point which was devastatingly effective even in premade pvp. I put her back on the ground where she belonged though. I'm still learning ground, but I'm no chump at it.
Thunder has been on active duty for 12 days, 5 hours, 8 minutes, 25 seconds.
Now this toon, was Built from the ground up to be my Tac Sci. I wound up replacing Firestorm with him as my current fed primary toon. Everything I learned about damage dealing with sci ships was applied directly to Thunder right down to Trait Selection. Right now, the toon bounces between a Recon and an MVAM, but he's going to get a Fleet Nova. My Recon is often the top of the damage and kill charts, and second or third in overall healing. My Recon, is such that I get hate messages consisting of "How the **** do you do that much damage in a sci ship you cheater!" "I hate you. " "Mav never que with that ship again plz... " It can keep pace with Escorts on the charts, pretty regularly. It's infurating to deal with on crowd control, it does great damage, it does only so so healing, but doesn't need more because it's so good at putting people down, or kicking them around or shutting down their subsystems. It is the Tac Maxim applied to science. Do as much damage as physically possible as fast as possible, and you probably won't need nearly as much healing to save your, or your team mates backsides. My Mvam is hardly any slouch either.
These are my Primary Toons, (thats right I have more) which between them all, and what former team mates, friends, and rivals alike have run in pvp, have formed the Backbone of my two major threads. One of which was the most viewed and one of hte most liked threads before the PWE migration. Even on ships I have not personally run, I have gotten nothing but compliments on, because at this point I know enough about the game that I can setup -any- ship in the game and have it work well, not just in pugs, duels or pve. But on Premade levels as well. Tac Atrox though? You won't ever see that in my cruiser or sci threads. Because the ship is like the starcruiser, it's not built for tacs in any capacity for serious play. Now, the Tholian Carrier on the other hand. I have some nasty plans for that one, for tacs, sci and engies alike. I know it'll be devastating as well. Because I learned how to setup ships, through countless hours of play, testing, refinement, and more testing.
For every build that Works, that I posted up I probably tried at least 4 more in my early days that didn't. While I don't know everything, I do know most of it. Or know people that know what I don't and have the ability to ask them for help because I didn't make a complete TRIBBLE of myself on the forums.
Lol...half of this post is a disclaimer about a post you made that describes your build as being superior to mavs...
Text [CritD]X3 came in a lockbox 😉
Well, no, it really isn't... in fact there are arguments and disagreements all the time over this. There are so many variables and so many things that go into it... some people won't touch torps, some people use GDF to bait, some swear by X energy type, etc. There are builds that are generally agreed upon as being the best all-purpose DPS template, but this again depends almost entirely on the circumstances: are you pugging, are you with a team...
What people have been saying is that your ship needs a purpose in mind. You need to constantly be thinking, "If I get into X scenario, what can I use? How can I be a threat?" You want to be asking how you're using your resources effectively to achieve your goals (this includes your captain choice). Even with escorts that depends on so many different questions.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Thanks, I will do so.
R.I.P
I killed you 1v1 in a tac galor build, so other tac builds must be possible...
There have been many ppl in this thread alone that have talked about various tac builds that does not include an all cannon escort build. Funny that you would make a comment like that.
We can't have all classes equal in effectivness (player ingenuity aside) in all vessel types. There must be an amount of give and take as one moves through the different vessel types or everyone would just fly those vessels that best suit thier class and nothing else.
R.I.P
Hmmm... there is so much interesting fodder here.....
1 it is only obvious how to do massive dmg in an escort to the narrow minded.
I fly many escort builds
1 runs all cannons
1 runs 2 torps
1 runs 1 beam and cannons
1 runs ALL torps
Some are built to speed tank... some just to slug it out...
Some do pressure dmg... some have more spike then needed and almost no heals.
Use your imagination and have fun... I doubt your Hate of escorts has ANYTHING to do with flying them ever.
Here is something interesting
New Forum Sucks.. but people responded to you so its not hard to find that this was posted by Sophlogimo on 01-26-2012, 05:12 AM.
Hmmm you started the carrier thread 06-04-2012, 09:17 AM
Honesty how long exactly did you pilot an escort ?
It is also knee slapping funny that you have said in the past that escorts felt very UN-Trek to you then say you really love to fly ships that act more like a ship from BSG then Trek. Oh the contradiction.