Well, if you consider what people spent (in real money) on the lockbox keys/duty officer packs lottery ships... my guess... most people with lottery ships spent far more than the 2000 Cryptic ($25 approx) on the bug.... some spent hundreds.... many spent well more than 2000 points to get.... nothing...
Even if you bought the boxes/keys/packs from the exchange... someone spent money to get them to post to the exchange. Grinding accounts for some of it... but I'd bet it is a small fraction.
The big issue is not that the best escort in the game is getting buffed to be even better its that the best escort in the game is getting buffed up from day one unlike every other ship that players need to grind out starbase upgrades which will take months to upgrade.
If we take the $200 cost of a bug ship as 100% fact (which can never be proven) it was a cost people paid to get their hands on the ship for the design, stats and boff layout which it still has. Nowhere did cryptic state it would always be the best escort in the game so bugship owners have zero right to complain imho.
If we take the $200 cost of a bug ship as 100% fact (which can never be proven) it was a cost people paid to get their hands on the ship for the design, stats and boff layout which it still has. Nowhere did cryptic state it would always be the best escort in the game so bugship owners have zero right to complain imho.
Where is that written down? Could you please link these complaints? I haven't seen a single moan from BUG owners over the incoming fleet escorts. I own a BUG and it didn't even cross my mind, I just figured that i'd play with the BUG until the new re-hashed escorts came within reach and switch. I was under no illusion that the BUG would be buffed in the same way or in any way.
The reason ALL the Lockbox ships are being buffed is because the D'Kora is being buffed. If it wasen't then why would people keep buying keys for a ship that would be below par within the year? They couldn't buff one without the other. The magic lockbox cash-cow must be protected!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] @Aquitaine985 Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre. 2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
The reason ALL the Lockbox ships are being buffed is because the D'Kora is being buffed.
Oh, really? And you've possessed this ancient knowledge from...
I think it's the other way round. Seeing how good the Jem'Hadar is (and still getting a buff) people will be eager to open future lockboxes. Look at the price of those ships on the exchange. I bought my D'Kora for "just" 65 million EC. The Bug is like 250 (!) million and people still buy it. I don't remember how the Galor was doing but I guess it was around 100 million.
I agree with you on one thing though - if one lockbox ship gets a buff then all of them should.
Nowhere did cryptic state it would always be the best escort in
the game so bugship owners have zero right to complain imho.
Fair enough, and point well taken.
Please provide the link to the post where Cryptic explains that the C-Store T-5 ships would always be the best in the game. If you can do that... you get my full support on buffing the c-store ships.
Lets be realistic, don't quote the ship description... about the Oddy being the pinnacle of Federation technology... The T1 Connie was the pinnacle at one time too... As was the Defiant, Excelsior... etc etc etc
I think it's the other way round. Seeing how good the Jem'Hadar is (and still getting a buff) people will be eager to open future lockboxes. Look at the price of those ships on the exchange. I bought my D'Kora for "just" 65 million EC. The Bug is like 250 (!) million and people still buy it. I don't remember how the Galor was doing but I guess it was around 100 million.
Exactly... the lottery ships net more $$ then the C-Store ships, I believe... simply because the path to get them originates from the C-Store...
Take the D'Kora and Galor... boxes dropped like mad... but the keys to open those boxes were bought from the C-store (20 Keys = 1 C-Store Ship).
The Bug Ship, and Freighter... Duty Officer packs... 10 duty officer packs = 1 C-Store ship...
Given the odds of getting any of these lottery ships... there is a ton of money flowing their way for these lottery ships. More than the C-Store ships I believe...
Even better, having a lottery ship doesn't unlock said ship for all toons... so if you want it for each toon... right back you go to playing the lottery...
Some will say that they didn't pay RL money for their chance... but i counter with someone did... someone bought that key or duty officer pack and placed it on the exchange (I believe the vast majority of these on the exchange were purchased with RL money).
Edit: Yes you can grind dilithium, and exchange for C-Points (or Zen now)... but odds are heavily against this working... at the last exchange rate I saw (345 Dil = 1 CP) it would take 75,900 Dil for a single shot at the Bug or Freighter ... using 1 toon that is 10 days of refining) for 1 shot.
Please provide the link to the post where Cryptic explains that the C-Store T-5 ships would always be the best in the game. If you can do that... you get my full support on buffing the c-store ships.
Lets be realistic, don't quote the ship description... about the Oddy being the pinnacle of Federation technology... The T1 Connie was the pinnacle at one time too... As was the Defiant, Excelsior... etc etc etc
But I'm not asking for c-store ships to be buffed from day one as they should have to be upgraded like every other ship via starbase shipyard projects. Just like the super duper bugship should have to be earned and not just given a free pass that is not just unfair to non lockbox owners but will also destroy game balance.
I do think tho, that to get the super duper fleet version of a c-store ship a player must own the original c-store ship in question otherwise its slap in the face to the people who bought c-store ships that they in fact just payed $20 for a console and ship skin due to the fact the rest of the playerbase can get the ship type for free.
How would bugship owners feel if Cryptic gave away via a ingame mission, an escort with the exact same stats, boff layout of the bugship? Not happy at all I would think.
Edit: Yes you can grind dilithium, and exchange for C-Points (or Zen now)... but odds are heavily against this working... at the last exchange rate I saw (345 Dil = 1 CP) it would take 75,900 Dil for a single shot at the Bug or Freighter ... using 1 toon that is 10 days of refining) for 1 shot.
But you don't have to just use one character to grind dil for conversion to c-points/zen/whatever its called next week Just running two characters a day can net you 100 points easily every few days :cool:
You mean that players will be able to get SB variants of ships that they have not purchased via the c-store?
If that's the case, its just wrong.
I'll join the angry mob over there then, thank you very much! I just spent 237 million for a ship I could grind for, that being the case, not to mention that I have purchased every KDF ship, and about 80% of all Fed ships!!!
the bottom line is that over the next few weeks, fewer and fewer non-bug players will choose to queue for PvP, which ultimately means this is a bad move for PvP...
If by competitive you mean ridiculously OP, sure. That Jem'hadar ship puts all the fleet escorts on both sides to shame, and it will be a day 1 release. (whereas the other comparable ship, the Defiant, won't be hitting the game for months)
I think the best player/captain will win, its not the ship, its the player/captain that wins (1v1).
But I'm not asking for c-store ships to be buffed from day one as they should have to be upgraded like every other ship via starbase shipyard projects. Just like the super duper bugship should have to be earned and not just given a free pass that is not just unfair to non lockbox owners but will also destroy game balance.
PVP Balance, lets be clear on what is so unfair.... it would not be unfair to PVE at all correct? Because I have run with many a player who use "free" ships only... and still heavy contributors to PVE content.
I have pointed out in other QQ'ing threads of this nature, that again skill is not being taken into account... seen many a "free" ship own a C-Store Ship, or Lottery Ship...
I do think tho, that to get the super duper fleet version of a c-store ship a player must own the original c-store ship in question otherwise its slap in the face to the people who bought c-store ships that they in fact just payed $20 for a console and ship skin due to the fact the rest of the playerbase can get the ship type for free.
I can see where you are going with this... but, based on your logic... any future ship offering can not be > then the current C-Store ships... ever (iow... pay to win must rule). That is an unrealistic demand.
How would bugship owners feel if Cryptic gave away via a ingame mission, an escort with the exact same stats, boff layout of the bugship? Not happy at all I would think.
Probably not.... not being a bug ship, d'kora, galor, or freighter owner... I wouldn't know... but since I am a C-Store ship owner (VA Defiant, LSRV, Atrox, HEC), I can answer how I feel about the new fleet version.... Excited... can't wait to get my hands on it...
An important distinction becomes that... I did not have the expectation that the T5 Defiant, or the T5 LRSV, or the Atrox Carrier, or the HEC that I have bought would be the best ever... With the exception of the Atrox (which I flew only a couple times), I have gotten my $20 worth out of each of these ships.
I understood when I purchased them (like when I purchase anything) that eventually, and probably before I want it to) what I purchased would become outdated. So if they (Cryptic/PWE) are providing a new ship that rivals, or is better than the C-Point version... Ok... great... I dont have to buy the new one.
PVP Balance, lets be clear on what is so unfair.... it would not be unfair to PVE at all correct? Because I have run with many a player who use "free" ships only... and still heavy contributors to PVE content.
I have pointed out in other QQ'ing threads of this nature, that again skill is not being taken into account... seen many a "free" ship own a C-Store Ship, or Lottery Ship...
I can see where you are going with this... but, based on your logic... any future ship offering can not be > then the current C-Store ships... ever (iow... pay to win must rule). That is an unrealistic demand.
Probably not.... not being a bug ship, d'kora, galor, or freighter owner... I wouldn't know... but since I am a C-Store ship owner (VA Defiant, LSRV, Atrox, HEC), I can answer how I feel about the new fleet version.... Excited... can't wait to get my hands on it...
An important distinction becomes that... I did not have the expectation that the T5 Defiant, or the T5 LRSV, or the Atrox Carrier, or the HEC that I have bought would be the best ever... With the exception of the Atrox (which I flew only a couple times), I have gotten my $20 worth out of each of these ships.
I understood when I purchased them (like when I purchase anything) that eventually, and probably before I want it to) what I purchased would become outdated. So if they (Cryptic/PWE) are providing a new ship that rivals, or is better than the C-Point version... Ok... great... I dont have to buy the new one.
By unfair I mean c-store ships and those provided via the game for free require starbase + shipyard+ special project to get upgraded to the max version of that ship yet the lockbox ships require nothing to be done to get the maxed out version.
I don't know how to answer your query about c-store ships being the best ever as its not something Iv posted about. To get the maxed out version of the Armitage, Atrox or any other c-store ship I feel players should have to have bought the original c-store version other wise c-store ship owners are paying for the console and skin.
Comments
The big issue is not that the best escort in the game is getting buffed to be even better its that the best escort in the game is getting buffed up from day one unlike every other ship that players need to grind out starbase upgrades which will take months to upgrade.
If we take the $200 cost of a bug ship as 100% fact (which can never be proven) it was a cost people paid to get their hands on the ship for the design, stats and boff layout which it still has. Nowhere did cryptic state it would always be the best escort in the game so bugship owners have zero right to complain imho.
Where is that written down? Could you please link these complaints? I haven't seen a single moan from BUG owners over the incoming fleet escorts. I own a BUG and it didn't even cross my mind, I just figured that i'd play with the BUG until the new re-hashed escorts came within reach and switch. I was under no illusion that the BUG would be buffed in the same way or in any way.
The reason ALL the Lockbox ships are being buffed is because the D'Kora is being buffed. If it wasen't then why would people keep buying keys for a ship that would be below par within the year? They couldn't buff one without the other. The magic lockbox cash-cow must be protected!
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
I think it's the other way round. Seeing how good the Jem'Hadar is (and still getting a buff) people will be eager to open future lockboxes. Look at the price of those ships on the exchange. I bought my D'Kora for "just" 65 million EC. The Bug is like 250 (!) million and people still buy it. I don't remember how the Galor was doing but I guess it was around 100 million.
I agree with you on one thing though - if one lockbox ship gets a buff then all of them should.
Fair enough, and point well taken.
Please provide the link to the post where Cryptic explains that the C-Store T-5 ships would always be the best in the game. If you can do that... you get my full support on buffing the c-store ships.
Lets be realistic, don't quote the ship description... about the Oddy being the pinnacle of Federation technology... The T1 Connie was the pinnacle at one time too... As was the Defiant, Excelsior... etc etc etc
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Exactly... the lottery ships net more $$ then the C-Store ships, I believe... simply because the path to get them originates from the C-Store...
Take the D'Kora and Galor... boxes dropped like mad... but the keys to open those boxes were bought from the C-store (20 Keys = 1 C-Store Ship).
The Bug Ship, and Freighter... Duty Officer packs... 10 duty officer packs = 1 C-Store ship...
Given the odds of getting any of these lottery ships... there is a ton of money flowing their way for these lottery ships. More than the C-Store ships I believe...
Even better, having a lottery ship doesn't unlock said ship for all toons... so if you want it for each toon... right back you go to playing the lottery...
Some will say that they didn't pay RL money for their chance... but i counter with someone did... someone bought that key or duty officer pack and placed it on the exchange (I believe the vast majority of these on the exchange were purchased with RL money).
Edit: Yes you can grind dilithium, and exchange for C-Points (or Zen now)... but odds are heavily against this working... at the last exchange rate I saw (345 Dil = 1 CP) it would take 75,900 Dil for a single shot at the Bug or Freighter ... using 1 toon that is 10 days of refining) for 1 shot.
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
But I'm not asking for c-store ships to be buffed from day one as they should have to be upgraded like every other ship via starbase shipyard projects. Just like the super duper bugship should have to be earned and not just given a free pass that is not just unfair to non lockbox owners but will also destroy game balance.
I do think tho, that to get the super duper fleet version of a c-store ship a player must own the original c-store ship in question otherwise its slap in the face to the people who bought c-store ships that they in fact just payed $20 for a console and ship skin due to the fact the rest of the playerbase can get the ship type for free.
How would bugship owners feel if Cryptic gave away via a ingame mission, an escort with the exact same stats, boff layout of the bugship? Not happy at all I would think.
But you don't have to just use one character to grind dil for conversion to c-points/zen/whatever its called next week
If that's the case, its just wrong.
I'll join the angry mob over there then, thank you very much! I just spent 237 million for a ship I could grind for, that being the case, not to mention that I have purchased every KDF ship, and about 80% of all Fed ships!!!
PVP Balance, lets be clear on what is so unfair.... it would not be unfair to PVE at all correct? Because I have run with many a player who use "free" ships only... and still heavy contributors to PVE content.
I have pointed out in other QQ'ing threads of this nature, that again skill is not being taken into account... seen many a "free" ship own a C-Store Ship, or Lottery Ship...
I can see where you are going with this... but, based on your logic... any future ship offering can not be > then the current C-Store ships... ever (iow... pay to win must rule). That is an unrealistic demand.
Probably not.... not being a bug ship, d'kora, galor, or freighter owner... I wouldn't know... but since I am a C-Store ship owner (VA Defiant, LSRV, Atrox, HEC), I can answer how I feel about the new fleet version.... Excited... can't wait to get my hands on it...
An important distinction becomes that... I did not have the expectation that the T5 Defiant, or the T5 LRSV, or the Atrox Carrier, or the HEC that I have bought would be the best ever... With the exception of the Atrox (which I flew only a couple times), I have gotten my $20 worth out of each of these ships.
I understood when I purchased them (like when I purchase anything) that eventually, and probably before I want it to) what I purchased would become outdated. So if they (Cryptic/PWE) are providing a new ship that rivals, or is better than the C-Point version... Ok... great... I dont have to buy the new one.
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
By unfair I mean c-store ships and those provided via the game for free require starbase + shipyard+ special project to get upgraded to the max version of that ship yet the lockbox ships require nothing to be done to get the maxed out version.
I don't know how to answer your query about c-store ships being the best ever as its not something Iv posted about. To get the maxed out version of the Armitage, Atrox or any other c-store ship I feel players should have to have bought the original c-store version other wise c-store ship owners are paying for the console and skin.