Oh God of Destruction, I beseech thee to consider:)
OK... how about a mild variant where we replace the four aft-mounted turrets with four beam arrays. While you miss out on enhancing the central 90 degrees of frontal facing (for which most PvP foes will try to avod placing their ship in), do we not get more forepower/dps on the broadsides and the periphera; fore aspects?
While the power drain is more than turrets, is it REALLY that draining... especially if we link DEM to the cannons (on a Naga) and the beam arrays to one or two EPtW? If we do the latter, the Engineer Boff abilities would probably like DEMx2, EPtWx 1 or 2, EPtSx2, and an RSP?
Oh God of Destruction, I beseech thee to consider:)
OK... how about a mild variant where we replace the four aft-mounted turrets with four beam arrays. While you miss out on enhancing the central 90 degrees of frontal facing (for which most PvP foes will try to avod placing their ship in), do we not get more forepower/dps on the broadsides and the periphera; fore aspects?
While the power drain is more than turrets, is it REALLY that draining... especially if we link DEM to the cannons (on a Naga) and the beam arrays to one or two EPtW? If we do the latter, the Engineer Boff abilities would probably like DEMx2, EPtWx 1 or 2, EPtSx2, and an RSP?
Yes, the power drain difference is significant enough that you would be considering alternatives.
Considering the loss in firepower over a 140 degree or so spectrum along the fore (which is supposed to be your primary punch power), you lose 1/2 of your weapon strength in a burst pass.
I would not advise it.
If you accomodate with the added EPtW, you miss out on the healing and tanking abilities that make this slow ship a viable tank and support ship as well. If you're doing that, you might as well fly an Escort.
The advantage of this ship is its ability to unleash so much devastation, while also being a Cruiser with all the advantages of that role.
An older video with one of my earlier variations of my ship's build, but nevertheless, against a very organized and strong Angry Clowns premade... fighting with the common 12th Fleet pug group (in that I ask in 12th Chat "Hey, anyone want to PvP?" and take the first four people to respond out of 500 active members without at all considering group make-up or builds), plus 1 random pug.
I'd say the ship performs admirably enough, given it is a sub-par build to what I'm currently running these days.
Still... you people think the ship won't perform against experienced and organized opponents? Keep deluding yourselves.
That arrogance will generate many more kills for me.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
Well, that op oddy setup is so tanky: Honestly I don't know how I would hold aggro in PVE Is a ship that amazingly tanky useful in PVP? I know that PVP players joke about 'zombie cruisers,' but do they provide a viable role?
I've been running PVE mostly lately, trying the interesting setup of an eng in a tac oddy. I figure, if PVE isn't too hard, why not run a tank that also can put out some decent numbers? So, I jumped into the tac oddy, set it up with 4 DBB and 4 turrets. Now, I'm not shredding anyone with a phaser lance, but I can tank an elite gate and a cube simultaneously while putting out 3-4k DPS and 30k spike beam overload hits. The current setup I'm running is as follows:
The WTO 2.0 build would cycle EPTS and EPTW (right now I only eat EPTW right after a beam overload hit) and would drop a TSS for a second Hazard emitters for a bit more hull tank. After testing, I decided that the Chevron Sep and the little escort pet consoles weren't worth it, but I do have worker bees equipped.
The main question I have with this setup is about gearing. I have a full set of mk12 MACO, and I love the graviton beam.... but is the graviton beam worth losing out on the borg 2set? Basically, the goal here is to get the bare minimum tank to tank elite STFs while ekeing the maximum DPS from the available choices. Any advice would be great
Well, that op oddy setup is so tanky: Honestly I don't know how I would hold aggro in PVE Is a ship that amazingly tanky useful in PVP? I know that PVP players joke about 'zombie cruisers,' but do they provide a viable role?
I've been running PVE mostly lately, trying the interesting setup of an eng in a tac oddy. I figure, if PVE isn't too hard, why not run a tank that also can put out some decent numbers? So, I jumped into the tac oddy, set it up with 4 DBB and 4 turrets. Now, I'm not shredding anyone with a phaser lance, but I can tank an elite gate and a cube simultaneously while putting out 3-4k DPS and 30k spike beam overload hits. The current setup I'm running is as follows:
The WTO 2.0 build would cycle EPTS and EPTW (right now I only eat EPTW right after a beam overload hit) and would drop a TSS for a second Hazard emitters for a bit more hull tank. After testing, I decided that the Chevron Sep and the little escort pet consoles weren't worth it, but I do have worker bees equipped.
The main question I have with this setup is about gearing. I have a full set of mk12 MACO, and I love the graviton beam.... but is the graviton beam worth losing out on the borg 2set? Basically, the goal here is to get the bare minimum tank to tank elite STFs while ekeing the maximum DPS from the available choices. Any advice would be great
You bring about very valid points, though there is a madness to my method.
...or is it method to madness? Meh, really doesn't matter.
Let me try to separate the issues to answer directly. Forgive me for ripping your post apart, but it's the easiest way I know to address all your concerns.
1.) Is a pure tank vessel viable for PvE?
Hakaishin: In a team it definitely has its moments. Solo not so much. But there is an important conclusion I believe you've to consider.
If you're a powerful tank, you're generally going to be a damn good healer.
That said, it really doesn't matter as much if you're the one holding the aggro. You are healing whoever does have it.
Not optimal... and being someone who HATES the healer role with a passion, I sympathize. But yes, it does work - just not ideal in a PvE environment where everything can be summed up as nothing more than a DPS race.
5 full DPS Escorts can complete ANY 5-man mission or objective likely better than any other setup in the game.
2.) Is a pure tank vessel viable for PvP?
Hakaishin: Yes. As aforementioned, a tank will generally make a formidable healer. Healing is important in a PvP setting.
Could always follow Sad Pandas' example for 4x Oddy Cruisers for Fed Ball healing and a ridiculous number of continuous FAW spams, with 1 Escort to pick off opportunity targets. In this case, they take advantage of the over-abundance of the very ship I posted. FAW on auto-fire and heal the hell out of everything.
With the Sci ability nerf, this is a bit more difficult to counter, and usually steamrolls most any party.
So does it work? Ask the dozens of Sad Panda victims. I don't personally run it, but have fought against it and know what it is capable of.
3.) Engi in Tac Ody?
I am nothing if not bluntly honest. I can complete most any PvE mission with either shuttles or Mirandas.
What makes a PvE mission faster/easier?
More and faster damage.
PvE to me is mind-numbingly boring. I'll do my usual lance burst if I'm actually soiling the hands of my Dreadnought and watch something go boom, then I'll pull the game on my 2nd monitor and let my son in Kindergarten do the rest while I watch Netflix on the other monitor.
It really wouldn't matter if you have 5 ships and between all 5 of you don't even have 1 heal skill. You'll still complete the bonus objective in Elite STFs most every time, provided you aren't TRIBBLE.
Now, these are my opinions. Naturally there will be someone offended (though I personally believe the very notion of offense to words is fundamentally dishonest and disgusting) by what I have to say, but I'm beyond ever caring.
That said, pack as much damage-producing power on that ship as you can and go to town.
4.) Posted Build 1 vs Posted Build 2?
Rule on both: Never mix Beam Overload and Fire At Will. Pick one or the other. Not both.
Trying to do too many things. Choose a role and stick to it.
2 Hazard Emitters, particularly against Borg with all their Plasma spam, is very effective. Don't change that.
Retain 2x EPTS and 2x EPTW. Keep both up continuously if you're running any sort of beam cruiser.
2x RSP is great, but not really needed in PvE. The only thing that's going to realistically kill you are the things that RSP can't protect you from, such as Heavy Plasmas. DEMs would work for added power (especially with a 2x FAW barrage, that's a lot of extra damage seeping to the hull), however I would also consider replacing with 2x Extend Shields. Usable on allies as well when you find they are taking a beating, and in the long run I think you'd find much more benefit from it. Could even just run 1x RSP and 1x Extends.
Your call.
With that many shield heals in PvE, Tac Team isn't really needed. You'll be in good shape in that department, just hotkey your Balance Shield function and go to town.
Were I you, I'd run 2x FAW I and have my Lieutenant slot fill Attack Pattern Beta.
Because Beta will apply to every enemy you hit with FAW in its flurry barrage, you'll find yourself pumping out a sizable increase in damage in my opinion.
5.) Gear?
Gear is a PvP question. PvE it doesn't matter, to be openly blunt.
Nevertheless, full MACO's fine. Graviton's useless in PvE (it's a PvP skill).
I think in PvE you'd find more use out of MACO shield and 3x Borg pieces. But that is my opinion.
Swap for PvP back to full MACO.
That sums up my thoughts. I hope it is helpful.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
Thank you hakai for the detailed and thorough response. I personally consider STFs to be considerably less boring than spending an hour running daily missions for my 8k dil...
I have a KDF BOP that I run for PVP, but I am considering taking up the healer role in PVP and giving it a go. So, a few points of clarification I'd like:
1. Why not run a copy of FAW and a copy or Beam Overload together? I have 2 of the new beam CD doffs that have a 20% chance to reduce the cooldown, so occasionally I get a much reduced cooldown. Still, I am intrigued, because dropping FAW or BO means I'd get an extra tac slot, which is a rare luxury for an eng cruiser. Which leads me into #2:
2. If I were to drop a FAW or a BO, what should I put in the open tac slot? I could put a TT in, to run them both together, that would open up 2 doff slots for me. I don't think that sounds like the best option though. what could I do with that slot to get the maximum amount of damage increase?
3. if I were going PVP healer, should I stay with MACO 3 set? Should I use Chevron separation? I know you don't like PVP healing but most of the guys I play with aren't big PVP fans.
4. If I were going PVP healer, besides 2 copies of extend shields what should I change for BOff skills?
Thank you hakai for the detailed and thorough response. I personally consider STFs to be considerably less boring than spending an hour running daily missions for my 8k dil...
Hakaishin: Very true, but only so many times you can run Infected Space before your head explodes.
I have a KDF BOP that I run for PVP, but I am considering taking up the healer role in PVP and giving it a go. So, a few points of clarification I'd like:
1. Why not run a copy of FAW and a copy or Beam Overload together? I have 2 of the new beam CD doffs that have a 20% chance to reduce the cooldown, so occasionally I get a much reduced cooldown. Still, I am intrigued, because dropping FAW or BO means I'd get an extra tac slot, which is a rare luxury for an eng cruiser.
Hakaishin: By choosing one or the other, that does not mean you only run 1 instance of the skill.
You've seen in most of my Ody builds, it's running 2x FAW for that reason.
With that considered, you'd sacrifice the BO in that case for another FAW.
Though I expressed in the post above another option. Replace Tac Team with a second FAW1, then replace BO2 for Attack Pattern Beta. Beta + Continuous FAW is very strong.
Which leads me into #2:
2. If I were to drop a FAW or a BO, what should I put in the open tac slot? I could put a TT in, to run them both together, that would open up 2 doff slots for me. I don't think that sounds like the best option though. what could I do with that slot to get the maximum amount of damage increase?
Hakaishin: Answered above.
3. if I were going PVP healer, should I stay with MACO 3 set? Should I use Chevron separation? I know you don't like PVP healing but most of the guys I play with aren't big PVP fans.
Hakaishin: Because I don't like it doesn't mean I don't know how to do it.
I didn't like shooting things in Iraq/Afghanistan, but still an expert marksman. Drill Instructor in basic training used to cite: "Become the best at the things you hate."
To answer more directly however, you ask for a preference. I can't answer that for you.
I can give you advice based on my experience, and you have to decide for yourself.
My experience is that if you're running a healer, you won't be targeting the enemy very often in PvP. That's one of the primary reasons I recommend an 8 beam FAW boat on auto-fire. You don't have to target any enemies.
You can focus on healing your allies, and your beams will do the work for you. Just keep chaining your 2x FAW's and hit the spacebar every few seconds.
Because you're not targeting enemies very much, you will not use Graviton Beam hardly at all. You will want defensive bonuses.
In my opinion, MACO shield + 3x Borg Set is superior in that role.
Were you more offensive, full MACO would be my recommendation.
4. If I were going PVP healer, besides 2 copies of extend shields what should I change for BOff skills?
Hakaishin: 2x FAW1 would be my first bet, with 8x single beams. Your LT Tac slot would then become Attack Pattern Beta.
To compliment Beta, I'd run Disruptor beams. The damage resistance debuff of both combined with that many FAW procs would stack nicely.
You can also go Phaser and knock subsystems offline left and right.
Polarons are always fun too.
You're not a pure DPS machine as a healer, so Antiproton loses its luster. I'd look for utility, not damage, as a healer.
Everything else is actually listed in the post I made before this one. Just read through it clearly. If you like, I can put together a renewed build for Engi in Tac Ody for your review.
Hope that helps.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
All you've to do for weapons is replace one of the forward cannons for the Trico, still running 3x cannons and 4x turrets, plenty of punch power across a broad angle.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
I've been loving this set up on my Gal-X and recently tried it on my Assault Cruiser as well and it works like a charm. Running 3 single cannons and a quantum up front and 4 turrets rear on my Sovy and the damage output is awesome, especially with the Sovy's better turn rate than the Gal-X.
I'm wondering on both builds if it might be fun to drop in the universal point defense console from the Thunderchild for a little more firepower?
I've been loving this set up on my Gal-X and recently tried it on my Assault Cruiser as well and it works like a charm. Running 3 single cannons and a quantum up front and 4 turrets rear on my Sovy and the damage output is awesome, especially with the Sovy's better turn rate than the Gal-X.
I'm wondering on both builds if it might be fun to drop in the universal point defense console from the Thunderchild for a little more firepower?
The one from the Armitage is more useful imho.
Equal damage to a Torp Spread 3.
But that depends on your console setup. You want to ensure you aren't sacrificing essentials (+% Shield Capacity, EPS Flow Regulator, AMS, etc).
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
I've used the PDS on my galaxy x. Honestly, it's usefulness is highly situational. If you are doing either khitomer accord or the cure it can come in handy. However it does have a limited range and only shines when your surrounded. I'd suggest keeping it in your inventory and equiping it as needed.
(edit) Not sure in the damage modifier applys to player ships but the thing can rip pve bop's apart.
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
I think this is what i am going to be using since i will only ever use a single torp the 3 to aux will do alot more for me tanking than the torp skill will my dps
I've used the PDS on my galaxy x. Honestly, it's usefulness is highly situational. If you are doing either khitomer accord or the cure it can come in handy. However it does have a limited range and only shines when your surrounded. I'd suggest keeping it in your inventory and equiping it as needed.
(edit) Not sure in the damage modifier applys to player ships but the thing can rip pve bop's apart.
Granted, but we were talking about the Armitage's torpedo point defense, which has equal power to a Torp Spread 3, but hits a 360 degree angle against all targets in firing range.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
Granted, but we were talking about the Armitage's torpedo point defense, which has equal power to a Torp Spread 3, but hits a 360 degree angle against all targets in firing range.
Ah well unfortunately thats bound to the armitage.
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
is it entirely impossible to kill someone very quick with the dreadnought when your a science captain, i meana, i bought a retrain token and i did the same skill tree layout, and now im doing worse than before! everytime im vsing someone, they all go for me and then when i do the tanking method, they seem to counter it, i don't know how, but i know how to use it, im just asking is there a way to increase my damage or countering to other ships with a science captain...and don't start complaining that im a science captain in a dreadnought...
is it entirely impossible to kill someone very quick with the dreadnought when your a science captain, i meana, i bought a retrain token and i did the same skill tree layout, and now im doing worse than before! everytime im vsing someone, they all go for me and then when i do the tanking method, they seem to counter it, i don't know how, but i know how to use it, im just asking is there a way to increase my damage or countering to other ships with a science captain...and don't start complaining that im a science captain in a dreadnought...
Well... you ask that I don't complain you're a Science in a Dreadnought, but there is something you MUST take to consideration.
My Alpha on decloak as a Tactical will be VASTLY stronger than yours.
I'm sorry. That is simply the honest truth.
Now, does that mean you shouldn't fly the Dreadnought? No.
But you cannot expect to fly it the same way I do with a completely different skill set.
As I was explaining earlier in this thread, the Dreadnought in the hands of a Tactical is fundamentally different than an Engineer/Science.
Mine is an offensive craft. Decloak, deal TRIBBLE high damage far faster than anyone could react to, then pull away, similar to a sniper or shark.
Engineer and Science become support craft. Dual-FAWs and lots of team support skills with 8 beams.
Completely different animal.
The cloak in the latter becomes fairly useless. You cloak at the outset and move in for your first lance attack (you won't 1-shot anyone, but you will damage them). Make sure you're focusing the same target as your team so it dies quickly, since you won't be able to pick the target off yourself.
Once that target is dead, you won't be recloaking for the rest of the fight. Set all of your 8 beams to auto-fire, and chain your two instances of FAW. You will be the primary spam-clearer, and with APB, provide nice fire support for your allies.
With your weapons on auto fire, you can put forth almost all your attention on healing and supporting your team. You can do this for 3 minutes straight until your Lance is off cooldown.
If you wanted, you could pull away, cloak, and come back in for another lance - just know again it won't 1-shot anyone in a Science.
Then go back to support.
I am NOT telling you not to fly the Dreadnought as a Science. But you CANNOT expect it to perform the same as my Tactical Dreadnought.
That said, I hope you weren't one of the Dreadnoughts I blew up in last night's TRIBBLE. rapefest on my Armitage. Good hunting and I hope you have better luck.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
Well... you ask that I don't complain you're a Science in a Dreadnought, but there is something you MUST take to consideration.
My Alpha on decloak as a Tactical will be VASTLY stronger than yours.
I'm sorry. That is simply the honest truth.
Now, does that mean you shouldn't fly the Dreadnought? No.
But you cannot expect to fly it the same way I do with a completely different skill set.
As I was explaining earlier in this thread, the Dreadnought in the hands of a Tactical is fundamentally different than an Engineer/Science.
Mine is an offensive craft. Decloak, deal TRIBBLE high damage far faster than anyone could react to, then pull away, similar to a sniper or shark.
Engineer and Science become support craft. Dual-FAWs and lots of team support skills with 8 beams.
Completely different animal.
The cloak in the latter becomes fairly useless. You cloak at the outset and move in for your first lance attack (you won't 1-shot anyone, but you will damage them). Make sure you're focusing the same target as your team so it dies quickly, since you won't be able to pick the target off yourself.
Once that target is dead, you won't be recloaking for the rest of the fight. Set all of your 8 beams to auto-fire, and chain your two instances of FAW. You will be the primary spam-clearer, and with APB, provide nice fire support for your allies.
With your weapons on auto fire, you can put forth almost all your attention on healing and supporting your team. You can do this for 3 minutes straight until your Lance is off cooldown.
If you wanted, you could pull away, cloak, and come back in for another lance - just know again it won't 1-shot anyone in a Science.
Then go back to support.
I am NOT telling you not to fly the Dreadnought as a Science. But you CANNOT expect it to perform the same as my Tactical Dreadnought.
That said, I hope you weren't one of the Dreadnoughts I blew up in last night's TRIBBLE. rapefest on my Armitage. Good hunting and I hope you have better luck.
well actually, to be honest i can actually one-shot the defiant or a bird of prey, believe it or not, you should know that i know how to counter or react to attack pattern alpha, so its basically useless to me, but i have SubNuc, so i can take away buffs from players to gain the advantage, i have another character slot maybe i can make a another character (which i've actually started), but i've spent so much time on my science character im actually going to miss my borg officer etc, oh well... if it will make me a better captain...should i do it?
Actually both of you are right. Tactical dread can one shot any person with low reactions. While science dread might one shot even person that reacts, thanks to sub nuc. In PvE the tac performs better.
A simple EPtS usually nullifies the lance anyway, and same goes for any defence buff that makes the lance miss.
In case of lance, it's matter of accuracy and lucky crit, not much of skill involved except for timing.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
well actually, to be honest i can actually one-shot the defiant or a bird of prey, believe it or not, you should know that i know how to counter or react to attack pattern alpha, so its basically useless to me, but i have SubNuc, so i can take away buffs from players to gain the advantage, i have another character slot maybe i can make a another character (which i've actually started), but i've spent so much time on my science character im actually going to miss my borg officer etc, oh well... if it will make me a better captain...should i do it?
and no, i wasnt on last night, if i ever see you online, do you think you could help me in-game?
Dalnar's correct, though the frequency of the 1-shots is vast enough to conclude that it should not be discounted. EPTS will not nullify a Tactical's lance from a 1-shot by itself, however. So far the only thing that has stopped my full alpha upon a decloak has been either a good premade putting dual Extends + TSS3 + EPTS + Hazards after they see me decloaking rather quickly or an RSP popped in time to avoid my Lance's brunt.
Non-crits will 1-shot most anything if fully buffed on a decloak from a Tactical, assuming the enemy is caught off guard. Crits will 1-shot them through several preparative buffs, such as TSS, EPTS, etc.
Still, debating the power the lance could pump out really doesn't serve much. We all can relatively agree on one fundamental fact:
It hurts. A lot.
@radiatedcube - Any time you need help, just PM me in game - @Hakaishin. I'll do my best to assist and will take you to private matches to allow you to test tactics, builds, etc.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
Dalnar's correct, though the frequency of the 1-shots is vast enough to conclude that it should not be discounted. EPTS will not nullify a Tactical's lance from a 1-shot by itself, however. So far the only thing that has stopped my full alpha upon a decloak has been either a good premade putting dual Extends + TSS3 + EPTS + Hazards after they see me decloaking rather quickly or an RSP popped in time to avoid my Lance's brunt.
Non-crits will 1-shot most anything if fully buffed on a decloak from a Tactical, assuming the enemy is caught off guard. Crits will 1-shot them through several preparative buffs, such as TSS, EPTS, etc.
Still, debating the power the lance could pump out really doesn't serve much. We all can relatively agree on one fundamental fact:
It hurts. A lot.
@radiatedcube - Any time you need help, just PM me in game - @Hakaishin. I'll do my best to assist and will take you to private matches to allow you to test tactics, builds, etc.
ok, i also have mentioned i have a tactical officer at lieutenant 8, would that be worth anything to level up with? or should i stick with the science officer. and yes, i will try to contact you for further support, thank you for your offer.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
ok, i also have mentioned i have a tactical officer at lieutenant 8, would that be worth anything to level up with? or should i stick with the science officer. and yes, i will try to contact you for further support, thank you for your offer.
i was saving 1000 cpoints for the dreadnought retrofit (yeh, saucer separation) i have a retrain token JUST incase, and my new tactical officer only has 2 skills filled at the moment, the attack pattern one and weapons training
@Dalnar - LOL Very true... but honestly if you entered PvP and don't have it, imho, you're TRIBBLE and need to reroll with it.
@Radiatedcube - You're asking me for a question answered by preference. Only you can answer that.
You know what I can do with a tactical dreadnought. If that is something you'd like to do as well, then I believe you already know what you need to do.
If it isn't worth that to you, then keep your Sci. Sci in a dreadnought is still a fine combination, just different, as aforementioned.
I grew another Tactical just to fly the Armitage with its release, even though I had my tactical main already. Just saved me the trouble so I could optimize both characters for their specific roles.
Only you can answer if it's worth it to you.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
Comments
OK... how about a mild variant where we replace the four aft-mounted turrets with four beam arrays. While you miss out on enhancing the central 90 degrees of frontal facing (for which most PvP foes will try to avod placing their ship in), do we not get more forepower/dps on the broadsides and the periphera; fore aspects?
While the power drain is more than turrets, is it REALLY that draining... especially if we link DEM to the cannons (on a Naga) and the beam arrays to one or two EPtW? If we do the latter, the Engineer Boff abilities would probably like DEMx2, EPtWx 1 or 2, EPtSx2, and an RSP?
Yes, the power drain difference is significant enough that you would be considering alternatives.
Considering the loss in firepower over a 140 degree or so spectrum along the fore (which is supposed to be your primary punch power), you lose 1/2 of your weapon strength in a burst pass.
I would not advise it.
If you accomodate with the added EPtW, you miss out on the healing and tanking abilities that make this slow ship a viable tank and support ship as well. If you're doing that, you might as well fly an Escort.
The advantage of this ship is its ability to unleash so much devastation, while also being a Cruiser with all the advantages of that role.
With that said, I am a man of my word if nothing else... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HL3Y9YyY4I
An older video with one of my earlier variations of my ship's build, but nevertheless, against a very organized and strong Angry Clowns premade... fighting with the common 12th Fleet pug group (in that I ask in 12th Chat "Hey, anyone want to PvP?" and take the first four people to respond out of 500 active members without at all considering group make-up or builds), plus 1 random pug.
I'd say the ship performs admirably enough, given it is a sub-par build to what I'm currently running these days.
Still... you people think the ship won't perform against experienced and organized opponents? Keep deluding yourselves.
That arrogance will generate many more kills for me.
"Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
I've been running PVE mostly lately, trying the interesting setup of an eng in a tac oddy. I figure, if PVE isn't too hard, why not run a tank that also can put out some decent numbers? So, I jumped into the tac oddy, set it up with 4 DBB and 4 turrets. Now, I'm not shredding anyone with a phaser lance, but I can tank an elite gate and a cube simultaneously while putting out 3-4k DPS and 30k spike beam overload hits. The current setup I'm running is as follows:
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=wrenchtacoddy_0
but I'm thinking about adjusting it a bit based on feedback from testing and from you. Something like this:
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=wrenchtacoddy2_0
The WTO 2.0 build would cycle EPTS and EPTW (right now I only eat EPTW right after a beam overload hit) and would drop a TSS for a second Hazard emitters for a bit more hull tank. After testing, I decided that the Chevron Sep and the little escort pet consoles weren't worth it, but I do have worker bees equipped.
The main question I have with this setup is about gearing. I have a full set of mk12 MACO, and I love the graviton beam.... but is the graviton beam worth losing out on the borg 2set? Basically, the goal here is to get the bare minimum tank to tank elite STFs while ekeing the maximum DPS from the available choices. Any advice would be great
You bring about very valid points, though there is a madness to my method.
...or is it method to madness? Meh, really doesn't matter.
Let me try to separate the issues to answer directly. Forgive me for ripping your post apart, but it's the easiest way I know to address all your concerns.
1.) Is a pure tank vessel viable for PvE?
Hakaishin: In a team it definitely has its moments. Solo not so much. But there is an important conclusion I believe you've to consider.
If you're a powerful tank, you're generally going to be a damn good healer.
That said, it really doesn't matter as much if you're the one holding the aggro. You are healing whoever does have it.
Not optimal... and being someone who HATES the healer role with a passion, I sympathize. But yes, it does work - just not ideal in a PvE environment where everything can be summed up as nothing more than a DPS race.
5 full DPS Escorts can complete ANY 5-man mission or objective likely better than any other setup in the game.
2.) Is a pure tank vessel viable for PvP?
Hakaishin: Yes. As aforementioned, a tank will generally make a formidable healer. Healing is important in a PvP setting.
Could always follow Sad Pandas' example for 4x Oddy Cruisers for Fed Ball healing and a ridiculous number of continuous FAW spams, with 1 Escort to pick off opportunity targets. In this case, they take advantage of the over-abundance of the very ship I posted. FAW on auto-fire and heal the hell out of everything.
With the Sci ability nerf, this is a bit more difficult to counter, and usually steamrolls most any party.
So does it work? Ask the dozens of Sad Panda victims. I don't personally run it, but have fought against it and know what it is capable of.
3.) Engi in Tac Ody?
I am nothing if not bluntly honest. I can complete most any PvE mission with either shuttles or Mirandas.
What makes a PvE mission faster/easier?
More and faster damage.
PvE to me is mind-numbingly boring. I'll do my usual lance burst if I'm actually soiling the hands of my Dreadnought and watch something go boom, then I'll pull the game on my 2nd monitor and let my son in Kindergarten do the rest while I watch Netflix on the other monitor.
It really wouldn't matter if you have 5 ships and between all 5 of you don't even have 1 heal skill. You'll still complete the bonus objective in Elite STFs most every time, provided you aren't TRIBBLE.
Now, these are my opinions. Naturally there will be someone offended (though I personally believe the very notion of offense to words is fundamentally dishonest and disgusting) by what I have to say, but I'm beyond ever caring.
That said, pack as much damage-producing power on that ship as you can and go to town.
4.) Posted Build 1 vs Posted Build 2?
Rule on both: Never mix Beam Overload and Fire At Will. Pick one or the other. Not both.
Trying to do too many things. Choose a role and stick to it.
2 Hazard Emitters, particularly against Borg with all their Plasma spam, is very effective. Don't change that.
Retain 2x EPTS and 2x EPTW. Keep both up continuously if you're running any sort of beam cruiser.
2x RSP is great, but not really needed in PvE. The only thing that's going to realistically kill you are the things that RSP can't protect you from, such as Heavy Plasmas. DEMs would work for added power (especially with a 2x FAW barrage, that's a lot of extra damage seeping to the hull), however I would also consider replacing with 2x Extend Shields. Usable on allies as well when you find they are taking a beating, and in the long run I think you'd find much more benefit from it. Could even just run 1x RSP and 1x Extends.
Your call.
With that many shield heals in PvE, Tac Team isn't really needed. You'll be in good shape in that department, just hotkey your Balance Shield function and go to town.
Were I you, I'd run 2x FAW I and have my Lieutenant slot fill Attack Pattern Beta.
Because Beta will apply to every enemy you hit with FAW in its flurry barrage, you'll find yourself pumping out a sizable increase in damage in my opinion.
5.) Gear?
Gear is a PvP question. PvE it doesn't matter, to be openly blunt.
Nevertheless, full MACO's fine. Graviton's useless in PvE (it's a PvP skill).
I think in PvE you'd find more use out of MACO shield and 3x Borg pieces. But that is my opinion.
Swap for PvP back to full MACO.
That sums up my thoughts. I hope it is helpful.
"Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
I have a KDF BOP that I run for PVP, but I am considering taking up the healer role in PVP and giving it a go. So, a few points of clarification I'd like:
1. Why not run a copy of FAW and a copy or Beam Overload together? I have 2 of the new beam CD doffs that have a 20% chance to reduce the cooldown, so occasionally I get a much reduced cooldown. Still, I am intrigued, because dropping FAW or BO means I'd get an extra tac slot, which is a rare luxury for an eng cruiser. Which leads me into #2:
2. If I were to drop a FAW or a BO, what should I put in the open tac slot? I could put a TT in, to run them both together, that would open up 2 doff slots for me. I don't think that sounds like the best option though. what could I do with that slot to get the maximum amount of damage increase?
3. if I were going PVP healer, should I stay with MACO 3 set? Should I use Chevron separation? I know you don't like PVP healing but most of the guys I play with aren't big PVP fans.
4. If I were going PVP healer, besides 2 copies of extend shields what should I change for BOff skills?
er ..
wait a minute ...
Hope that helps.
"Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
Difference: I can 1-shot the Assault Cruiser.
Assault Cruiser cannot 1-shot me.
Pretty big difference if I may say so myself.
I dislike the Sovereign. You like it, by all means.
Ody, Gal-X, and Excelsior all outperform it in my opinion.
Don't share that opinion, then that's your choice and you are certainly free to find Sovy-loving threads to share your insights.
"Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
"Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
I do still use my Trico fore every now and then. This is what I run when I do so:
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=HakTrico_0
All you've to do for weapons is replace one of the forward cannons for the Trico, still running 3x cannons and 4x turrets, plenty of punch power across a broad angle.
"Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
I'm wondering on both builds if it might be fun to drop in the universal point defense console from the Thunderchild for a little more firepower?
The one from the Armitage is more useful imho.
Equal damage to a Torp Spread 3.
But that depends on your console setup. You want to ensure you aren't sacrificing essentials (+% Shield Capacity, EPS Flow Regulator, AMS, etc).
"Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
I honestly don't know - haven't bothered with it on any other ship.
"Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
(edit) Not sure in the damage modifier applys to player ships but the thing can rip pve bop's apart.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
I think this is what i am going to be using since i will only ever use a single torp the 3 to aux will do alot more for me tanking than the torp skill will my dps
Granted, but we were talking about the Armitage's torpedo point defense, which has equal power to a Torp Spread 3, but hits a 360 degree angle against all targets in firing range.
"Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
Ah well unfortunately thats bound to the armitage.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Well... you ask that I don't complain you're a Science in a Dreadnought, but there is something you MUST take to consideration.
My Alpha on decloak as a Tactical will be VASTLY stronger than yours.
I'm sorry. That is simply the honest truth.
Now, does that mean you shouldn't fly the Dreadnought? No.
But you cannot expect to fly it the same way I do with a completely different skill set.
As I was explaining earlier in this thread, the Dreadnought in the hands of a Tactical is fundamentally different than an Engineer/Science.
Mine is an offensive craft. Decloak, deal TRIBBLE high damage far faster than anyone could react to, then pull away, similar to a sniper or shark.
Engineer and Science become support craft. Dual-FAWs and lots of team support skills with 8 beams.
Completely different animal.
The cloak in the latter becomes fairly useless. You cloak at the outset and move in for your first lance attack (you won't 1-shot anyone, but you will damage them). Make sure you're focusing the same target as your team so it dies quickly, since you won't be able to pick the target off yourself.
Once that target is dead, you won't be recloaking for the rest of the fight. Set all of your 8 beams to auto-fire, and chain your two instances of FAW. You will be the primary spam-clearer, and with APB, provide nice fire support for your allies.
With your weapons on auto fire, you can put forth almost all your attention on healing and supporting your team. You can do this for 3 minutes straight until your Lance is off cooldown.
If you wanted, you could pull away, cloak, and come back in for another lance - just know again it won't 1-shot anyone in a Science.
Then go back to support.
I am NOT telling you not to fly the Dreadnought as a Science. But you CANNOT expect it to perform the same as my Tactical Dreadnought.
That said, I hope you weren't one of the Dreadnoughts I blew up in last night's TRIBBLE. rapefest on my Armitage. Good hunting and I hope you have better luck.
"Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
well actually, to be honest i can actually one-shot the defiant or a bird of prey, believe it or not, you should know that i know how to counter or react to attack pattern alpha, so its basically useless to me, but i have SubNuc, so i can take away buffs from players to gain the advantage, i have another character slot maybe i can make a another character (which i've actually started), but i've spent so much time on my science character im actually going to miss my borg officer etc, oh well... if it will make me a better captain...should i do it?
A simple EPtS usually nullifies the lance anyway, and same goes for any defence buff that makes the lance miss.
In case of lance, it's matter of accuracy and lucky crit, not much of skill involved except for timing.
and no, i wasnt on last night, if i ever see you online, do you think you could help me in-game?
Non-crits will 1-shot most anything if fully buffed on a decloak from a Tactical, assuming the enemy is caught off guard. Crits will 1-shot them through several preparative buffs, such as TSS, EPTS, etc.
Still, debating the power the lance could pump out really doesn't serve much. We all can relatively agree on one fundamental fact:
It hurts. A lot.
@radiatedcube - Any time you need help, just PM me in game - @Hakaishin. I'll do my best to assist and will take you to private matches to allow you to test tactics, builds, etc.
"Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
ok, i also have mentioned i have a tactical officer at lieutenant 8, would that be worth anything to level up with? or should i stick with the science officer. and yes, i will try to contact you for further support, thank you for your offer.
i was saving 1000 cpoints for the dreadnought retrofit (yeh, saucer separation) i have a retrain token JUST incase, and my new tactical officer only has 2 skills filled at the moment, the attack pattern one and weapons training
@Radiatedcube - You're asking me for a question answered by preference. Only you can answer that.
You know what I can do with a tactical dreadnought. If that is something you'd like to do as well, then I believe you already know what you need to do.
If it isn't worth that to you, then keep your Sci. Sci in a dreadnought is still a fine combination, just different, as aforementioned.
I grew another Tactical just to fly the Armitage with its release, even though I had my tactical main already. Just saved me the trouble so I could optimize both characters for their specific roles.
Only you can answer if it's worth it to you.
"Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin