The Hakaishin Dreadnought

hakaishinlegion

By popular request, the thread is back. I've taken the liberty of updating it accordingly.

Before I continue, I should provide the following: WARNING!!! WALL OF TEXT TO FOLLOW!

Now then... Good afternoon, fellow dreadnought users and activists (and those stupid enough to scoff us).

I've been away from the game for a few months, though with Season 6's impending completion, I felt it was worth giving a shot (at least so long as Cryptic maintains the promise that they will give PvP the attention it deserves). Prior to my departure, some of you may have had the chance to view my dreadnought threads in the past, and I hope it helped you in some fashion.

As I hope it will help again.

In the past I've received countless PMs and in-game mails regarding my dreadnought, this thread is in an effort to answer them all universally and provide a central place to define my build and use tactics. A hub for my PvP experience for those interested in learning. I'll be blending both build mechanics and general cruiser PvP into one.

If anyone has further questions, feel free to respond to this thread and I'll do my best to provide as sound a response as I can. If you have something you feel you can (constructively) contribute, feel free. I'm not claiming to be the end-all-be-all source of information on the Galaxy-/Venture-X, and if I've missed anything of note, you are welcome to bring it up.

First, let me get the (seemingly) obvious mistakes out of the way...

1.) Galaxy-X is NOT an Escort. It is a DREADNOUGHT (spelled with an "o", by the way...). A battleship. It is large, slow, hits very hard, able to soak lots of damage, and designed as an anchor for fleet operations and tactics.

2.) Galaxy-X is NOT a Sovereign. Same BOFF/Console layout, but THAT'S IT. Those two factors DO NOT define the ship. If you walk into this thread expecting a comparison to that TRIBBLE piece of scrap tin showcased in First Contact that I can 2 shot in all of 4 seconds max, may I kindly point you to the exit as nothing you find here will benefit your style of play.

3.) Galaxy-X is NOT for everyone. Most find it to be very difficult to get a rewarding PvP experience out of it (though most will cite it works fine in PvE even with limited skill). This ship requires precision, brains, and reflex to control effectively. It requires you to not only out-think your opponent, but (as you would in Chess) think AHEAD of your opponent and move/act accordingly and with the support of your team.

4.) Galaxy-X is NOT a solo ship (though I will admit that 1v1s are very fun with this ship). Like the Nebula, it is designed for team play, and when anchored with a good team, you are a MONSTER.

An oddity question I received, but I will answer... No, I did not design a website/wiki on the use and mechanics of the Galaxy-X. I am a gamer just like the rest of you, and just happen to enjoy using this ship as opposed to others and post my experience/findings while using it for your benefit/examination respectively. Again, I do not claim to be an authority on the Galaxy-X or STO PvP. I simply enjoy the two, just as most of you do, and have a bit of experience between them.

So then... I've been flying the Galaxy-X for some time, and in all areas of gameplay (PvE Missions, STFs, PvP, and even the new Season 6 Fleet Actions), and have in that time tried a great many things. I've found several variants that work well, and I'll do my best to share them with you.

Doing some number testing in both PvE and PvP, I've found that with JJ's (a 12th Fleet Captain and the one who helped me perfect my first Dreadnought) suggestion of 2x DEM on my original Dreadnought, loading primarily Dual Beam Banks, I was doing well enough however my overall DPS wasn't quite hitting the numbers I wanted. I experimented and swapped my rear torpedo for another turret. My numbers universally improved slightly, but barely enough to notice. I swapped my forward Quantum for a forward Tricobalt. The numbers spiked up significantly as well as providing me a means of bursting my Lance targets down to debris instantly, but still wasn't what I wanted.

The major change came when I swapped my forward DBB's with Single Cannons and adding Cannon - Rapid Fire (CRF) to my arsenal.

For those curious why single cannons... well, you may have noticed, but this ship moves slow. Like it or not, even the best Galaxy-X pilot can't turn on a dime. I can get my nose on any target, but the true test is how long I can KEEP it on that target.

Single cannons bare a 180 degree firing arc, and allows me to bare down heavily on forward DPS bursts as well as broadside. I can, more-or-less, move freely in combat without having to worry too hard about keeping my nose or broadside on my target and maintain that damage.

If I went all beams, I would be provided fine broadside damage (provided I swap my 2x Directed Energy Modulation for Emergency Power to Weapons to maintain through their incredible drain), however the true strength of the Dreadnought, the forward-facing killing power, would be undermined.

And that is not what this ship is about, in my opinion.

Since I came back, I've even swapped out the Tricobalt for another Cannon (4x cannons, 4x turrets) to maximize this capacity and so far I am pleased with the results. While I miss the killing power of the torpedo from time to time, I've evolved enough that I don't require it to get fast, effective kills.

The build with Trico is still very usable however.

Moving on...

This resulted in almost no loss in per-hit damage, though double the firing arc (on this slow of a ship, you notice, and single cannons still generate more damage output than single beams) and the added bonus effect of 2x DEM on cannons versus beams (more hits = greater penetration with DEM, particularly with CRF), my strength bumped up quite a bit.

Note that even with F2P's launch, you STILL want to retain 100% Phasers. Phaser Relays will universally enhance your weapons, including your Lance, and allows us to equip the mix we need of Cannons/Turrets/Beams. Until Cryptic lets us choose the energy type of our Lance, we will continue to use Phaser. Swapping to Antiproton (the other energy types, imho, are not worth slotting on the Galaxy-X) would mean you would need to effectively have 7-8 Single Beams (which receive less benefit from your 2x DEM as well as smaller per-hit damage numbers) to be effective, and use the beam weapon console for maximum effect, but this method does not provide the same instantaneous punch power of the cannon variant. It also means you are constantly swapping between broadside and front arcs, which is not always feasible in active PvP combat as a Tactical. I would use that variant for an Engineer or Science Galaxy-X as opposed to Tactical (you get steady DPS continuous with the occasional light Lance burst, but rarely have the killing power of a Tactical. This would grant you a good means of offense with your Eng or Sci support mechanics).

BAM! Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the newer, and sexier with the advent of DirectX 11 beta, U.S.S. Hakaishin N.X. 97626-A (Destruction God, for those that require the Japanese translation).

Note: The following video is not intended to troll/belittle those I have squared off against. It is used solely as a method of demonstration. Thank you for compelling battles, and I look forward to more of the same. See you in PvP.

Cannon Build: Hakaishin PvP: How Many Klingons Can We Make Die?

Cannon Build: Hakaishin PvP: Battle Against Angry Clowns Premade

Cannon Build: Hakaishin PvP: AnonOps - LanceTheN00bz

Cannon Build: Hakaishin PvP: What If?

Cannon Build: Hakaishin PvP: No One Listens To Hakaishin

Cannon Build: Hakaishin PvP: Spartans 1, Klingons 0

Cannon Build: Hakaishin PvP: Don't tell ME It Can't Be Done!

Cannon Build: Hakaishin PvP: Domestic Occupation

Cannon Build: Hakaishin PvP: Destruction God Academy

Cannon Build: Hakaishin PvP: Shades of Grey

Beam Build: Hakaishin PvP: FIRE AT WILL!!!

Beam Build: Hakaishin PvP: Post F2P Extravaganza

PvE Application: Hakaishin PvE: FASTEST CE KILL EVAR!!1!1

Note: I include my UI for those who have a difficult time finding a set that works for them, as a reference of what works for me. If you question my key mapping, note that I use a Razer Naga Epic, and the button configuration is what is most comfortable for me given my style of play. I have absolutely no ship functions tied to the keyboard with the exception of turning. My left arm actually has significant nerve damage due to combat injuries sustained overseas, so I bound just about every ship function, to include Ventrillo/Teamspeak, to my mouse. This is the result.

Character Profession: Tactical
Ship Class: Venture-X Dreadnought

Build Link: Current Hakaishin Dreadnought Build

Space DOFF Assignments: 3x Shield Distribution Officers, 1x Cannon Officer, 1x Emergency Power Officer

Standard Power Settings (changes regularly in combat)-

Weapons: 100 / 124
Shields: 50 / 82
Engines: 25 / 60
Auxiliary: 25 / 50

Weapon Loadout -

Fore (PvP): Phaser Cannon Mk XII [ACC]x3
Fore (PvP): Phaser Cannon Mk XII [ACC]x3
Fore (PvP): Phaser Cannon Mk XII [ACC]x3
Fore (PvP): Phaser Cannon Mk XII [ACC]x3

Aft (PvP): Phaser Turret Mk XII [ACC]x3
Aft (PvP): Phaser Turret Mk XII [ACC]x3
Aft (PvP): Phaser Turret Mk XII [ACC]x3
Aft (PvP): Phaser Turret Mk XII [ACC]x3

Yes... I have all ACCx3s. You may substitute other weapons if necessary... this weapon loadout must've costed me about 700 hours and about 180-190mil Energy Credits (a bargain, I know... many have spent even more than that). But, I love it.

If you need to alternate, I recommend [CritH] primarily, followed by [CritD]. [Dmg] modifier is alright, but the aforementioned are far more beneficial, especially with the increased Crit rates base that the new skill system provides.

---

Fore (PvE): Phaser Cannon Mk XII [ACC] [CritH] [Borg]
Fore (PvE): Phaser Cannon Mk XII [ACC] [CritH] [Borg]
Fore (PvE): Phaser Cannon Mk XII [ACC] [CritH] [Borg]
Fore (PvE): Phaser Cannon Mk XII [ACC] [CritH] [Borg]

Aft (PvE): Phaser Turret Mk XII [ACC] [CritH] [Borg]
Aft (PvE): Phaser Turret Mk XII [ACC] [CritH] [Borg]
Aft (PvE): Phaser Turret Mk XII [ACC] [CritH] [Borg]
Aft (PvE): Phaser Turret Mk XII [ACC] [CritH] [Borg]

Deflector: MACO Mk XII
Engine: MACO Mk XII
Shield: MACO Mk XII

Tactical Console: Phaser Relay Mk XI
Tactical Console: Phaser Relay Mk XI
Tactical Console: Phaser Relay Mk XI

Science Console: Antimatter Spread Module
Science Console: Field Emitter

Engineering Console: Cloaking Device
Engineering Console: Graviton Pulse Generator
Engineering Console: Assimilated Module
Engineering Console: EPS Flow Regulator

Devices: Shield Battery, Engine Battery, Scorpion Fighters, Subspace Field Modulator

Role: Tank, Burst, DPS, Support/Heal

PvP Uses: The Hakaishin Dreadnought is built to do one of two things, and can perform each task equally well.

1.) The surprise and instantaneous elimination of an enemy healer or secondary target (separate of the main group's primary focus target) before rejoining the main party as a supportive DPS and tank/healer while waiting on burst cooldowns.

2.) Focus with the main party, allowing your burst to instantly kill a target with them, allowing the entire group to move on to your next target. This creates swift and uniform kills, and for particularly difficult enemies, allows your group the ability to still successfully break the enemy's spine and turn a tide.

Either way, the general tactics used are the same. Modify to suit your own needs. I should warn you all that I am a military man, and my approach to combat and team play reflects that.

It should be noted that Engineers and Science Captains can still make good use of this ship. I simply recommend swapping all weapons to 8x Phaser Arrays and changing out the Directed Energy Modulation instances for 2 instances of Emergency Power to Weapons. You can maintain 24/7 Emergency Power to Weapons and Shields both, making such a build possible and effective. For that, simply change out to 2x Fire At Will and either a Tac Team or Attack Pattern Beta, your choice.

1.) Cloak at the outset of the match. In-combat maneuvers should be maintained at 1/2 impulse to maximize your ship's questionable turn rate (think of it like a car... the faster you move, the wider your turn will be). Full impulse should only be used to catch prey, retreat, or regroup with your party. Use Engine Batteries, Attack Pattern Alpha, and Evasive Maneuvers as appropriate.

2.) Allow your group to move ahead of you and engage. Linger a minimum of 10km behind the furthest back ally to avoid the initial wave of enemy detection and AoE while cloaked.

3.) Confirm with your group leader if their strategy enables you weapons free on a target of your choosing, or if they need you to focus your guns on their primary target. Coordination is the key to any victory. If you are group lead, decide quickly and instruct your group on what target to focus.

4.) When safe to do so (no Gravity Wells or Plasma in your way, for example), lock in your target and move in to between 2-3km of your enemy's broadside (NOT aft or fore - avoid the possibility of enemy Plasma and their primary firing arc). No greater than 4km (particularly against Escorts - this will improve your damage and keep the enemy in range of a tractor and in position for your Lance). Yes, this is very close, and takes some skill to do properly. So practice.

5.) [Warning! Step 5 encompasses complicated instructions and actions that must be processed VERY quickly! Read carefully and, if you have one, put that Razer Naga (Epic) to good use to better your reaction time!]

Do not decloak. Instead, apply all of your tactical damage-dealing buffs. The 3rd buff will automatically disengage your cloak if within 5km of your enemy, saving you precious seconds.

[IF YOU ARE USING THE TRICOBALT BUILD - RECOMMENDED USE ALONE WITHOUT TEAM SUPPORT] While finishing your buffs, tractor your opponent (if available), launch Scorpion Fighters with Antimatter Spread (the 3 extra "targets" with the scramble sensor effect of AS will make it MUCH harder for the enemy to shoot down your torpedo, retaliate against you, and heal themselves/allies. You've effectively made your enemy militarily irrelevant) and fire your High Yield Tricobalt and Lance before they could react (yes, fire the Tricobalt simultaneously with the Lance, NOT after. Not only does this bridge the time gap between enemy shield strip and torpedo hit, however the Lance beam, as large and bright as it is, will actually "cloak" the incoming Tricobalt, lowering your enemy's chances of shooting it down even further). If done successfully (and it will take a few attempts at practice to get your timing right... I've had the luxury of LOTS of practice, and subsequently, lots of kills), you will rip off the enemy facing shield and between 25%-45% of their hull on a non-critical. With all buffs applied, a critical is capable of 1-shotting an Escort (I've topped 71k damage with 1 of the 2 shots from the Lance on a Defiant... McAllen, if a name is necessary as validation).

[IF YOU ARE USING THE CANNON BUILD - RECOMMENDED USE COMPLIMENTED ON YOUR TEAM'S MAIN TARGET, OR IF YOU ARE AN ENGINEER OR SCIENCE CAPTAIN] While finishing your buffs, tractor your opponent (if available). Open fire with your Lance ASAP upon the decloak, do not grant time for a Reverse Shield Polarity counter. Use your Antimatter Spread to hinder the enemy's ability to heal themselves immediately after and follow up with Cannon Rapid Fire and your full secondary weapons fire. If the Lance doesn't kill them outright, the follow-up fire will make short work of them, particularly with your team's support.

6.) If timed correctly, the enemy (regardless of how strong they are, from Escort to Carrier to Star Cruiser) will die. From here forward, ensure you maintain 24/7 Emergency Power to Shields (your Weapon and Shield power will both be maintained as over 100 indefinitely). You've just pissed someone off royally, and they're likely screaming, "WTF?!!?!" at their monitor. You are now going to become Public Enemy #1. Tank it up!

7.) Maneuver defensively and begin tanking and healing your allies as appropriate. Support DPS any focus targets and/or targets of opportunity while waiting for cooldowns. This ship is still a cruiser and after the burst is done, needs to pilot like one. Support your allies.

8.) Ensure to time skills such as Graviton Pulse Generator, Antimatter Spread, etc to coincide with skills your allies are using to neutralize targets - if your ally uses a SubNuc, it's usually a good idea to follow up with an Antimatter Spread to slow down their ability to remove the effect with a Science Team and make the enemy die much faster/easier. Use common sense and situational awareness.

9.) When your cooldowns are ready (or within 10-15sec of becoming ready), confirm with your team that you're ready for another burst. With your group leader's approval, use Evasive Maneuvers to pull away from the combat zone when safe to do so. After 3 seconds of no damage dealt/received, you will have your Cloak ready for use again.

10.) Repeat from Step #3.

Many use the Galaxy-X as a tank. Many use it as a straight DPS'er. Many use it as a healer. Many use it without a specific role, or without knowing what it is truly capable of.

All of these things the Galaxy-X can do, and can do effectively.

I use it as a Shark. A Sniper. A tool of precision and devastation. A game of Chess.

Strategically move into position with stealth. When the time is right, surgically remove your target from play. Remove yourself from danger when/where appropriate and seek a new vantage point following every shot. Repeat.

This style takes grace and impeccable timing to be truly effective, and is NOT for everyone. If you prefer button mashing, I recommend the Defiant. If you prefer button mashing with slightly better armor/healing, I recommend the Excelsior.

If you prefer to be the tide that changes a battle in your favor, I recommend learning how to use the Galaxy-X effectively before knocking its abilities.

There is no such thing as a poor ship, and likewise a great one (even to those who knock the Miranda, I used it on Tribble with sub-par White equipment all the way through the Romulan and Breen campaigns. Friends of mine have taken shuttles through the old Borg campaign missions).

Only a comparable Captain and team/group make or break a ship.

To quote the famous IT proverb: You cannot blame the system for user error.

Good hunting, dreadnoughts.

sollvax

Interesting and helpful

I can also really feel your love of your ship I understand that well

Small question with the cannon and turret build What Boff powers are you using on your tactical station (it may be in there but if so I missed it)

hakaishinlegion

I change up my BOFFs often in PvP. What I run standard for most situations is 2x Tactical Teams + Cannon Rapid Fire.

I'll sometimes add a single DBB fore and Beam Overload, depending if I'm with a PUG group or not.

For Beams I tend to use 2x FAW 1 and Attack Pattern Beta.

Update: I've added a number of PvP videos and even a PvE video for the ship's use as a guide. I will be adding more.

I've several more enticing matches against rather strong premades such as Angry Clowns, Sad Pandas, and other good fights recorded that I will be posting soon as I migrate many of my videos to a personal channel now that I am no longer in 12th Fleet.

rayezilla

An excellent write up. Cannot wait to see what your thoughts on the new Sovereign +1 are.

What are your thoughts on a 1 of photon torpedo on the front for PVE, to be replaced with a buffed Transphasic for PVP?

The lack of field generator sci consoles was mind blowing to me.

What would you think on a similar setup, but with DBB arrays and the following tac BOFF setup:

tac ensign: TT1

Tac LT: FAW1, Beam Overload

Then the doff setup would be 2-3 TT CD reduction DOFF and 2-3 BO + FAW reduction doffs.

hakaishinlegion

I use 1 field generator sci console, which is enough for a shark. That's why I use 2x EPtS, RSP, and Extend Shields.

Though otherwise, what you suggest is actually similar to what I started with. It worked, don't get me wrong... I even have a PvP video of me using it (but granted, I was drunk off my TRIBBLE).

The problem persists that you must acknowledge that the ship moves slowly. Even the best Galaxy-X pilot must cede this point. DBB has a narrow firing arc (half that of single cannons). You get a minimal increase in damage, but it is limited solely to the frontal arc.

It's similar to making the argument for DHC... why?

Single cannons grant a 180 degree arc where all 8 of my weapons are bared on my enemy.

You end up with far greater damage output when all is said and done.

The argument for a Torpedo however is valid, and I do still use one from time to time. I dislike Transphasics as they stand now, and Photons are pointless because of - again - your slow maneuverability.

Realistically you'll never bare your front arc consistently enough in PvP to make the best use of these weapons.

If you went Torpedoes, I'd have to say capitalize on this. Make that rare Torpedo attack REALLY pack a punch... use Tricobalts. Fire them at near point-blank to both ensure it hits as well as granting a good opportunity to ensure the facing shield is down. The stun this torpedo produces also helps. You may use Scorpion Fighters and Antimatter Spread to mask your incoming torpedo, and make it almost 100% guaranteed to land.

Just takes tactical and strategic planning.

dashuk2381

I tried running the all cannons/turrets build and must say it makes a huge difference. I thought the Gal-X was a ship crushing beast before in PVE but now it's even more ridiculous. I'm still trying to ween myself off of my forward quantum launcher though and run that 4th cannon up front, just a hard habit to break, though I may swap it to the rear for a turret and add the 4th cannon, just seems like they are always trying to flank me and would be nice to have that extra punch in the rear.

hakaishinlegion

dashuk2381 wrote: »

I tried running the all cannons/turrets build and must say it makes a huge difference. I thought the Gal-X was a ship crushing beast before in PVE but now it's even more ridiculous. I'm still trying to ween myself off of my forward quantum launcher though and run that 4th cannon up front, just a hard habit to break, though I may swap it to the rear for a turret and add the 4th cannon, just seems like they are always trying to flank me and would be nice to have that extra punch in the rear.

Something to consider as you make that adjustment - forfeiting the torpedo allows for a rather large number of skill points to be distributed elsewhere without really sacrificing any damage output.

Food for thought.

Doing so allowed me to increase my defenses considerably. I do not regret the decision.

starcommando101

Hey I use the Dreadnought as well and I have made mine a Beam Boat, but this Cannon side has made me wana try this...

Dude you rock hardcore, finally another Dreadnought user that I can bounce Ideas off of, THANK YOU!

Here is a link to my current build, give me some pointers if you feel like it! I'm thinking of making this build in another Character...

:cool:

chillee

I truly worship the Destruction God...

So, in all sincerity, I ask... is the math truly favorable in DPS for the 4 cannon fore and 4 turret aft set up with 2 x DEM VERSUS my old fave 7 beam array + trico forward for the extra burst damage (and preserving that forward punch a dreadnought should have) supported by 2 x EPtW. In addition to actual DPS values, are they sustainable? The old fave even with 7 arrays was usuaully supported with Weapon power consistently above 100 as weapon batteries, Borg universal console, etc. are taken into account.

Yes, arrays make me a lazier pilot, but it tends to frustrate the escorts more when they realize "flanking"" does not mean much benefit as much as focusing on a lower shield.

In addition, I beseech your opinion on the Tactical BO set-up (for beams) of two FAW and APBeta. So you chain your FAW and scarifice having at least one Tactical Team? What is there value in the FAW chaining (post-FAW nerf) vs the faster shield distribution andlittel bonuses from the Tactical Team.

Finally, I thank you for re-entering the forums with the purpose of improving the game play of those interested. Its an outstanding public service requiring the generosity of time and patience. Heaven knows that most Gal-X drivers are hacks who think the vessel is a flying "I-Win" button... as a result, they quickly and appropriately get hosed in PvP. Here is to hoping this improves everyone's PvP experience.

AND don't forget, everyone, if it works in the PvP setup as Hakaishin demonstrates here, it will certainly work in PvE.

hakaishinlegion

chillee wrote: »

I truly worship the Destruction God...

So, in all sincerity, I ask... is the math truly favorable in DPS for the 4 cannon fore and 4 turret aft set up with 2 x DEM VERSUS my old fave 7 beam array + trico forward for the extra burst damage (and preserving that forward punch a dreadnought should have) supported by 2 x EPtW. In addition to actual DPS values, are they sustainable? The old fave even with 7 arrays was usuaully supported with Weapon power consistently above 100 as weapon batteries, Borg universal console, etc. are taken into account.

Hakaishin: Yes, the damage potential is much higher. One contributing factor is that it doesn't require you to keep a broadside facing the target and then sacrificing that broadside power for a forward burst when necessary.

A beam array build realistically only has a 90 degree broadside arc where all fore and aft beams are usable. This also means that the forward torpedo is not seeing full use, because you have to swap the two (which is far easier said than done in PvP against decent opponents - trust me, I've tried. Not undoable and it does work, but far more effort for far too little reward).

With the cannon/turret build you are granted a full 180 degree spectrum of 100% effective DPS. This includes both broadside and fore attacks.

The DEMs provide approximately the same DPS increase you'd see with EPtW on beams, the difference comes that this DPS affects the hull directly, not the shields. This means the ship is still effective even against enemies that pop things like Reverse Shield Polarity, are under Extend protection, etc.

The answer is far more versatility. That versatility in the long run creates far more damage potential. While a single beam will outweigh a single cannon shot for shot, you gain more benefit from the DEMs with cannons and rapid fire due to the lower power drain and higher penetration.

Yes, arrays make me a lazier pilot, but it tends to frustrate the escorts more when they realize "flanking"" does not mean much benefit as much as focusing on a lower shield.

In addition, I beseech your opinion on the Tactical BO set-up (for beams) of two FAW and APBeta. So you chain your FAW and scarifice having at least one Tactical Team? What is there value in the FAW chaining (post-FAW nerf) vs the faster shield distribution andlittel bonuses from the Tactical Team.

Hakaishin: Nerfed or not, dual FAW on an 8 beam cruiser is still very effective, moreso when you have an ally or two with similar setups complimenting your fire (refer to my FIRE AT WILL!!! video). Tactical Team is indeed beneficial and it hurts to see it go, but look closely at the Engineer BOFF abilities. 2x EPtS, RSP, Extends... then Sci Team to assist... You have sufficient shield means to survive in such an environment, particularly if you are an Engineer or Science Captain.

The Beam build I recommend against for Tacticals, since you get more damage and burst with the cannon setup, for reasons posted above.

It should be noted that the Dreadnought is mostly meant for burst damage, not sustained damage as it is. The ability to bare 8 high power weapons on an enemy at the same time as your Lance is where a lot of that power comes from, which cannot be done with beams (fore arc only has 4 weapons in a beam build).

Just small notations to consider.

Finally, I thank you for re-entering the forums with the purpose of improving the game play of those interested. Its an outstanding public service requiring the generosity of time and patience. Heaven knows that most Gal-X drivers are hacks who think the vessel is a flying "I-Win" button... as a result, they quickly and appropriately get hosed in PvP. Here is to hoping this improves everyone's PvP experience.

The sentiment is appreciated, thank you. There are those present who know more than I do, but I'm more than happy to share my experience with hopes that the community can take what I've learned and expand upon it.

Perhaps someone here will find a much more productive build than I have.

AND don't forget, everyone, if it works in the PvP setup as Hakaishin demonstrates here, it will certainly work in PvE.

Responses are in red, hope that helps.

rayezilla

oooohhhh I totally missed that you were using 180 degree cannons! I guess my brain saw 'cannons' and said 'hurr he must mean DHC who uses anything else.' That's flat out brilliant! A 180 degree firing arc would make the ship way easier to manage.

Now, call me old fashioned but I like beam weapons, even though standard beam arrays are not optimal for DPS(in my humble opinion). cannons are sustained, but dual beam banks are burst, from what I've seen.

What do you think about a build that uses the double beam banks (so 90 arc), but utilizing the doffs that reduce the cooldown of Evasive Action to 48 seconds, effectively using it as a offensive ability to stay on target (one that happens to provide a decent defensive boost as well). My fleet admiral uses an oddy with this setup (DBB + evasive action doffs), and is both a fantastic tank and does surprisingly good PVE DPS.

Is this more effort than it's worth, and I should just settle with running cannons for maximum flexibility?

Would standard beam arrays on the front and turrets on the rear lose even more DPS than the cannon setup?

atrus19

Hakaishin, you aren't in 12th fleet anymore? Why's that?

dalolorn

Would this thing work with a regular cruiser? Minus the lance, ofc.

hakaishinlegion

rayezilla wrote: »

oooohhhh I totally missed that you were using 180 degree cannons! I guess my brain saw 'cannons' and said 'hurr he must mean DHC who uses anything else.' That's flat out brilliant! A 180 degree firing arc would make the ship way easier to manage.

Now, call me old fashioned but I like beam weapons, even though standard beam arrays are not optimal for DPS(in my humble opinion). cannons are sustained, but dual beam banks are burst, from what I've seen.

What do you think about a build that uses the double beam banks (so 90 arc), but utilizing the doffs that reduce the cooldown of Evasive Action to 48 seconds, effectively using it as a offensive ability to stay on target (one that happens to provide a decent defensive boost as well). My fleet admiral uses an oddy with this setup (DBB + evasive action doffs), and is both a fantastic tank and does surprisingly good PVE DPS.

Hakaishin: This is actually very similar to what I started with. The increase in per-hit damage is minimal to be honest, and while burst potential is slightly higher, you still sacrifice considerable overall DPS. This is better suited for PvE than PvP where maneuvering doesn't matter as much. 48 seconds is still a long time in PvP, and a lot can happen in that time. PvE it's fine, but still highly recommend the cannon setup for PvP.

Is this more effort than it's worth, and I should just settle with running cannons for maximum flexibility?

Hakaishin: It'd work, but again, far more useful in PvE than PvP due to the long cooldown of Evasives, even with supportive DOFFs.

Would standard beam arrays on the front and turrets on the rear lose even more DPS than the cannon setup?

The problem is not so much the weapon as the power drain. Power drain of beams is double that of cannons, if not more. You'd need to replace the Directed Energy Modulations for Emergency Power to Weapons just to maintain effectiveness, since batteries only go so far. This defeats the purpose, and lowers the effectiveness of the rear turrets as well. This also removes the benefit of Cannon Rapid Fire, and requires you to equip 2 different offensive BOFF abilities whereas 1 used to do the trick. It's counter-productive and far more of a headache than is necessary.

Answers in red, hope that helps.

hakaishinlegion

atrus19 wrote: »

Hakaishin, you aren't in 12th fleet anymore? Why's that?

I am a very brash man, and outspoken. My thoughts, opinions, and expressions tend to not get along well with 12th's administration, which must first look out for their 500 member base over that of one disgruntled man.

We didn't agree on a lot of things, so in the end it was better to part ways and join up with the PvP contingent in TRIBBLE. - good group of excellent PvPers who were kind enough to take me in.

hakaishinlegion

dalolorn wrote: »

Would this thing work with a regular cruiser? Minus the lance, ofc.

Yes it would. Seen Excelsiors and Sovereigns put it to excellent use.

Haven't tried with the Odyssey.

atrus19

hakaishinlegion wrote: »

Yes it would. Seen Excelsiors and Sovereigns put it to excellent use.

Haven't tried with the Odyssey.

I run pretty much this, using a DBB and BO III as a sort of mini lance (with an EPtW to recover from the power drain), on my excelsior right now. It also has the benefit of looking really really awesome when firing, like you are really throwing everything at them. Im using 3x cannon doffs so CRF has a 50% chance to be up by the time it runs out.

hakaishinlegion

atrus19 wrote: »

I run pretty much this, using a DBB and BO III as a sort of mini lance (with an EPtW to recover from the power drain), on my excelsior right now. It also has the benefit of looking really really awesome when firing, like you are really throwing everything at them. Im using 3x cannon doffs so CRF has a 50% chance to be up by the time it runs out.

Not bad at all sir. I'm partial to the shark tactics of cloak/lance, but for a substitute that is definitely a nice configuration.

gremlin

Welcome back to the forums Haikaishin.

It is awesome to finally get my hands back onto your gal X build. Sorry to hear about your break with 12 fleet, but its good you found a home.

With you back, I am going to have to break the ol' girl out of dry dock.

hakaishinlegion

gremlin wrote: »

Welcome back to the forums Haikaishin.

It is awesome to finally get my hands back onto your gal X build. Sorry to hear about your break with 12 fleet, but its good you found a home.

With you back, I am going to have to break the ol' girl out of dry dock.

Should hop into some PvP together at some point, always fun to have some friendly competition.

I'm not worried about 12th, they can take care of themselves with or without me. A large group of 12th's Tactical Division (their PvP core, to which I belonged) migrated to TRIBBLE., so I still get to play with several of my old friends. I'd actually even go so far as to say they took a far heavier blow with their loss than mine, losing some of their best pilots all at once will make it hard to maintain a presence in competitive PvP.

TRIBBLE.'s been good to me, so I have no complaints.

I actually stopped visiting the forums before because Cryptic banned me. That ban was lifted here because my PW account is different than my Cryptic, the only reason I'm able to make that return.

Now watch them get a hair up their TRIBBLE and ban me again, even when I'm trying to help the entire community. Wouldn't put it past them.

rayezilla

so a DBB setup would be great for PVE, that makes sense, but for PVP the cannons are ideal. Got it! I'll just get a beam tac boff/doff set and a cannon tac boff/doff set.

What do you think about directed energy modulation in PVE?

hakaishinlegion

rayezilla wrote: »

so a DBB setup would be great for PVE, that makes sense, but for PVP the cannons are ideal. Got it! I'll just get a beam tac boff/doff set and a cannon tac boff/doff set.

What do you think about directed energy modulation in PVE?

That's actually what I do. I have different Doff/Boff setups for different situations. Either way, my skill point tree is the same whether using cannons or beams, so that's all I need to change.

Directed Energy Modulation is still very usable in PvE, particularly against cubes, tac cubes, and bosses. However, if you're using beams, you desperately need to keep your weapon power up following the drain, and EPtW becomes necessary. This is not an issue with cannons, so if using them for PvE you'll find yourself able to use DEM without an issue.

Just depends on which weapon loadout you're running.

I find greater use with cannons overall in PvE and PvP as a Tactical, however an Engineer or Science Gal-X would be far more beneficial using the aforementioned beam layout, likely in both arenas.

rayezilla

hmm, ok, so maybe I should set up not only a tac off for beam/cannon skills, but also two eng boffs, one with DEM and one with EPTW. Great advice, I sorely appreciate it. If you're looking for a fleet, the Reddit fleet at reddit.com/r/sto has been really impressive.

What are you using for DOffs? Right now I'm using 3 of the new beam cd doff, the 10% battery boost doff (shield batteries are so good with him), and a warp core engineer. I should note that I am an eng, not a tac.

hakaishinlegion

rayezilla wrote: »

hmm, ok, so maybe I should set up not only a tac off for beam/cannon skills, but also two eng boffs, one with DEM and one with EPTW. Great advice, I sorely appreciate it. If you're looking for a fleet, the Reddit fleet at reddit.com/r/sto has been really impressive.

What are you using for DOffs? Right now I'm using 3 of the new beam cd doff, the 10% battery boost doff (shield batteries are so good with him), and a warp core engineer. I should note that I am an eng, not a tac.

Thank you for the kind offer. I will keep it in mind should SOB not work out for any reason.

For DOFFs, I prefer 3x shield distribution officers and 2x cannon officers for the cannon build, swapping the latter two for 2x Emergency Power officers (given you're running 2x EPtS and 2x EPtW continuously, they help).

azaral

If you chain 4 EPtS/EPtW your at the global cool down so how would the cool down reduction doff help? or are you refering to the +25 power doffs?

hakaishinlegion

azaral wrote: »

If you chain 4 EPtS/EPtW your at the global cool down so how would the cool down reduction doff help? or are you refering to the +25 power doffs?

The power increasers. Since you are popping EPTS/W continuously, it tends to proc often enough.

bludagger

welll...

They can not say you did not spell it out for them.

Good write up neighbor.

iampulsar

Build looks Ok I guess, but to be honest, from your videos it just looks like your taking out unorganised pug teams. - This is simple and requires very little skill at all.

Having watched every video you put up ive come to the conclusion that, the alpha strike with lance will ko most people if it crits right, after that you dont do much dps at all. I didnt see much focus fire on you, so am not sure how well you tank either. My guess is against a well versed pvp fleet you would not do so well due to lack of mobility and no real dps without everything coming back off cooldown Also sticking out like a sore thumb would make you primary target against good teams.

On the other hand, thanks for the videos, some good viewing!

hakaishinlegion

iampulsar wrote: »

Build looks Ok I guess, but to be honest, from your videos it just looks like your taking out unorganised pug teams. - This is simple and requires very little skill at all.

Having watched every video you put up ive come to the conclusion that, the alpha strike with lance will ko most people if it crits right, after that you dont do much dps at all. I didnt see much focus fire on you, so am not sure how well you tank either. My guess is against a well versed pvp fleet you would not do so well due to lack of mobility and no real dps without everything coming back off cooldown Also sticking out like a sore thumb would make you primary target against good teams.

On the other hand, thanks for the videos, some good viewing!

Something you don't know about 12th Fleet - 500 people.

EVERY 12th group is a PuG group. There is no such thing as a 12th Fleet premade.

That said, it is PuG vs PuG almost every time. Most of those matches I'm not even in TeamSpeak, just shooting at whatever looks like a decent target.

But yes, I do go up against experienced premades. I had 20 videos on that channel, 12th Fleet administration asked that several of them be taken down (some of them my more epic fights).

One of my former beefs with 12th, and one of the reasons I'm no longer with them.

I'll be reuploading these videos by the weekend's end on my personal channel.

Alpha Strike non-crit on a decloak will kill most targets. The crit will kill ALL targets... important distinction. Non-crit averages over (usually 26k per 2 shot burst) for 50k hull damage, crit averages over 100k total.

Aside from that, the DPS of the cannons/turrets is actually very high. I apologize you overlooked the final numbers in most of the matches. If you read, I am either the top damage dealer, or very close to it. Aside from that, I've made many solo kills in there without my lance, just secondary weapons fire, almost every time without team assistance. I apologize you missed those as well.

For tanking, I am not a dedicated tank/healer. I don't build for that. I can do it (as my videos have indeed shown me as the focus target on several occasions), but I fight as a shark, not a hulking stationary target.

Nevertheless, as aforementioned, the better matches that 12th decided were "offensive" I'll be reposting soon. This will allow you to see how the ship performs against more seasoned premades (even when 12th doesn't have a premade itself).

rayezilla

Ok, since the sovvy refit won't be out for quite a while, I splurged on the oddy 3-pack since it's on sale.

How would you change your setup for an ody? PVE and PVP?

hakaishinlegion

rayezilla wrote: »

Ok, since the sovvy refit won't be out for quite a while, I splurged on the oddy 3-pack since it's on sale.

How would you change your setup for an ody? PVE and PVP?

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=HakOdyEng_0

Were I an Engineer flying an Odyssey, I'd be rolling something along those lines.

8x Phaser beams for weapons. Things like equipment set are optional.

FAW continuously with weapons on auto-fire, Sci Team to remove the accursed AMS/Scrambles and SubNucs, Dual EPTS/EPTW to maintain ship power levels, and 2x Extends/HEs and AtSIF3 for tanking and heal support.

Were you a Tactical, I'd recommend a more offensive build, but this should more than suffice.