So the optimum fix is fixed prices (+or-10% of display value)
and then its all sorted.
As to Voyager and its replicator rations thats to stop Janeway replicating 40 bottles of hair gel
This goes against one of the most common rules of MMO design: The display value is meant to be immensely below the price that the rarity, benefit, and cash would give it. It's meant to be the token return of permanently removing the item from the game, not the player trade value.
That value is set so far below the fair value of an item as a deterrent against items simply being destroyed out of hand and instead traded - the limit you propose would simply mean the majority of items will be destroyed out of hand, the yield of selling them isn't worth the time, and the prices limits on items available mean there's no money demand. You think EC is worthless now, it becomes literally irrelevant under your system, as throwing loot down the replicator generates enough EC in a few days to outfit a dozen ships in mk XII purples.
This is why in most MMOs crafting resources have very little value, or even zero as with STO's. The same goes for consumables, tribbles, and so forth. Many items are designed to have no intrinsic value, but a nontrivial functional value to players. Your suggestion would limit crafting material and tribble prices to 0, and many consumables to 110.
I will never ever purchase any item or equipment on the exchange for more than 20 million ECs.... ever!
A 2% increase in ___base___ phaser power for for a tactical phaser relay console does not justify a difference of 43 million between a very rare mk XI and very rare mk xii
Just sayin'.......supply and demand does not counter common sense. sorry
I know there are fools out there who may purchase it.... but not this fool ^^
That is all.
LOL. Common sense doesn't have anything to do with it. Or, I guess I should say that your idea doesn't seem "common" based on what some of the posters in this thread have said. "Common sense" says that rare or hard to find items will cost more. That much, everyone can agree on (hence 'common sense'). But how much more? Well that depends on what the perceived value is. A 2% increase may not seem to be 'worth' 20 million EC to you, but to someone else it may be. If NO ONE thinks that it's worth 20 mill, the item won't sell, and it will get sent back to the seller when the listing expires, and he/she will then re-list it at a lower price. This will repeat until it sells. When it sells, then that is the 'correct market price' so to speak.
Do agree that some items are grossly over/under priced, but it is an on-line time waster which is what Criptic wants (could even be classified as content).
I've had plenty of fun researching prices and posting items for sale. Helps keep my inventory pretty clear.
If one is trying to make a living off the Exchange, it can be advantageous or aggravating....
Oh, I totally agree. Once, I posted a purple Cardassian Technician for 50 mil... just to see if I could. I remember joking with a friend that there is no way in hell that any rational minded person would pay that much for an officer, even if it was perfect for Mk XII console crafting. I assumed that nobody was that stupid... I figured maybe 10 mil at the most.
Yet it sold the very next day. I celebrated like I hit the lottery!
And then I facepalmed myself when I realized that yes... people will pay ludicrous prices for things on the exchange.
So I observe with dread the inflation trend that's going on in the Exchange. Regular consumables are still as cheap as ever, and honestly, prices are rather static for regular purple gear (it's even dropped since Xmas). What's gone through the roof are the new items; Mk XII purple and blue consoles, Jevonite Hardpoints, Duty Officers (especially Bajoran and Cardassian ones), and starships. They've become an unattainable tier. To get these luxury items, players are forced to ignore the staples and traditional markets, such as your standard Mk XI purple gear and your hypos, and jack the price up on high demand luxury items so they can afford luxury items of their own.
Prices will eventually drop as demand cools off, but I doubt a lot of these items will drop below the million EC point. The president has been set. This is the new normal, and our EC comes off as having less purchasing power than ever.
TF-Omega, good luck. However, you'll need a lot more than just yourself to pull that off. You're not THAT big of a wheel in this game.
I will never ever purchase any item or equipment on the exchange for more than 20 million ECs.... ever!
A 2% increase in ___base___ phaser power for for a tactical phaser relay console does not justify a difference of 43 million between a very rare mk XI and very rare mk xii
Just sayin'.......supply and demand does not counter common sense. sorry
I know there are fools out there who may purchase it.... but not this fool ^^
That is all.
My trading history disagrees with you
If you can't afford that price, someone else will eventually.
I hear you. I don't like the exchange. For one thing, as you noted the prices are often extortionate. For another I just don't find it fun within the context of the Star Trek universe. I try to avoid it as much as I can and only use it as a last resort if I'm really, really desperate for something, which fortunately isn't often.
So I observe with dread the inflation trend that's going on in the Exchange.
<snip>
This is the new normal, and our EC comes off as having less purchasing power than ever.
This is what happens when there are no or very little in the way of EC sinks in the game. This is the underlying cause of inflation. People tend to only think of supply/demand on the product side, and often forget that there is the payment/currency side as well. Too much EC created leads to higher prices - always. It's the reason that governments shouldn't just print more money. The total aggregate EC in the game is constantly increasing as people vendor their drops. Without proper sinks, prices will continue to go up (ie the purchasing power of ECs will continue to go down).
This is what happens when there are no or very little in the way of EC sinks in the game. This is the underlying cause of inflation. People tend to only think of supply/demand on the product side, and often forget that there is the payment/currency side as well. Too much EC created leads to higher prices - always. It's the reason that governments shouldn't just print more money. The total aggregate EC in the game is constantly increasing as people vendor their drops. Without proper sinks, prices will continue to go up (ie the purchasing power of ECs will continue to go down).
I've also said that the cost of staple items have been static. So don't worry... hypos and components are as cheap as ever.
So I mean to say that the ability to purchase luxury items have decreased as their prices increased.
Honestly, we have ourselves to blame. Since the exchange is totally run on invisible hand economics... we as players set the prices. Therefore we're at fault for throwing everything out of whack. We have to be the ones that correct it.
How? I don't know. People are too afraid to lower their prices to allow the market to correct itself.
I've also said that the cost of staple items have been static. So don't worry... hypos and components are as cheap as ever.
So I mean to say that the ability to purchase luxury items have decreased as their prices increased.
Honestly, we have ourselves to blame. Since the exchange is totally run on invisible hand economics... we as players set the prices. Therefore we're at fault for throwing everything out of whack. We have to be the ones that correct it.
How? I don't know. People are too afraid to lower their prices to allow the market to correct itself.
Hypos are cheap because you can buy them from the NPC vendors. You can replicate the small/medium ones, so those prices are "fixed".
"We" cannot correct the inflation on the exchange. People aren't "afraid" to lower their prices. I sell a lot of items on the exchange. I still have a bank full of blue/purple gear that I crafted before F2P that I have to sell. I have also been doffing, and buy/sell doffs and gamma quadrant commodities frequently. I check the exchange fairly regularly. I will always check the going rate of something before I sell it. If it is below what I think it is worth, I will not list it. If the prices do not change over time, I am forced to realign my perceived value of the item to what the market says it's worth (or, hold on to it indefinitely and have it take up bank space).
So, the exchange economy 'works'. So long as there are people willing to pay a certain price, then that is, by definition, the 'going rate'. The amount people are willing to pay depends on the amount of EC in the system, and right now, there are no sinks to bring this down. When I leveled my Klink before F2P, I didn't sell anything on the exchange. All my unusable loot got vendored (and actually most of it got placed into the replicator at a 40% return as I was too lazy to actually go to an NPC to sell). I had over 2 million EC from that alone, created out of thin air just from playing. Assuming a lot of the new players are doing the same thing, the total EC in the game is growing rapidly. There is no place for all these EC to go, so prices go up on the exchange. When I had 2 mill, I didn't mind spending 100K on a green quantum torpedo. Now that I have more, I don't mind dropping even more EC than that. Spent 200K the other day on a single white doff just because the one I needed for a particular assignment was already on another assignment, and I didn't want to abort it.
So you propose we need an EC sink. I guess overpriced DOffs and Starships running into the 8 and 9 figures sort of serves that purpose.
Yes, this game needs an EC sink (at least if you want exchange prices to come down). BUT, Doffs aren't a sink because buying a doff merely transfers the EC to another player. You cannot buy doffs with EC from a vendor. The EC remains in the system. "Someone" still has the EC to spend. Nor are starships since the EC is merely transferred to another player. A 'sink' is one that actually takes EC out of the system. Dabo is one example of a sink, but at only a 100 EC bet limit, it is hardly significant.
Yes, this game needs an EC sink (at least if you want exchange prices to come down). BUT, Doffs aren't a sink because buying a doff merely transfers the EC to another player. You cannot buy doffs with EC from a vendor. The EC remains in the system. "Someone" still has the EC to spend. Nor are starships since the EC is merely transferred to another player. A 'sink' is one that actually takes EC out of the system. Dabo is one example of a sink, but at only a 100 EC bet limit, it is hardly significant.
Which is impossible to implement now because potential EC sinks end up being turned into Dilithium sinks instead... nuts!
Well, the next best thing is to increase supply.
TF-Omega, if you're serious about doing something about the sky high prices on the exchange, the best thing you can do is to form yourself a cartel and set prices yourself.
First, you're gonna need friends. Preferably friends with EC to burn. The more the merrier. Fleets... even better!
Second, you're gonna have to figure out who specializes in what. Maybe you know a Ker'rat farmer who's got lots of Mk XII purple stuff. Perhaps you got a guy who's a DOff specialist. Figure out who can do what, and have them assigned to their specialized markets.
I cannot stress the second point enough. One of the things that would discourage people from doing this is the size and scope of the exchange. You can't do it all alone. You need help. And you need people who know what their doing in their respective fields.
Third, Identify which markets you feel need to be adjusted.
Fourth... you gotta dedicate your people to production in their fields. Get your DOff people to churn out more DOffs than ever before. Get your Ker'rat farmers to work at grinding out Mk XII consoles. Production is key!
Then... manipulate the exchange.
The trick is not just to flood the exchange with cheap items and call it a day. Undercut too much and your stuff will not only sell too fast... it'll be resold at market price too! The trick to undercutting is just to put up your item just a little bit cheaper than anyone else. With this method, you can gradually lower prices to something a little more equitable.
Which is impossible to implement now because potential EC sinks end up being turned into Dilithium sinks instead... nuts!
Impossible? Hardly. How about increasing the bet limit at dabo to a million? And they can certainly make fleet starbases cost quite a bit of EC. And speaking of dilithium sinks, there is nothing wrong with having some dilithium sinks. Sinks are good in that it gives value to the currency that is used. That's the problem with inflation - it devalues the purchasing power of your EC, diltihium, or whatever currency you are using.
TF-Omega, if you're serious about doing something about the sky high prices on the exchange, the best thing you can do is to form yourself a cartel and set prices yourself.
<snip>
The trick is not just to flood the exchange with cheap items and call it a day. Undercut too much and your stuff will not only sell too fast... it'll be resold at market price too! The trick to undercutting is just to put up your item just a little bit cheaper than anyone else. With this method, you can gradually lower prices to something a little more equitable.
LOL. Good luck. As they say, altruism has no place in the market. I wonder how long these 'friends' of yours are going to spend gobs of time farming, and settle for a pittance of EC in return for their time (assuming that the goal is truly to LOWER prices on the exchange). They are going to sell for less? If anything, they could 'corner' the market and sell for MORE.
Won't help. The tax just gets passed along to the buyer. You think store prices are lower because they raise the sales tax? Nope. The consumer (ie the buyer) pays the tax.
Impossible? Hardly. How about increasing the bet limit at dabo to a million? And they can certainly make fleet starbases cost quite a bit of EC. And speaking of dilithium sinks, there is nothing wrong with having some dilithium sinks. Sinks are good in that it gives value to the currency that is used. That's the problem with inflation - it devalues the purchasing power of your EC, diltihium, or whatever currency you are using.
Increasing the Dabo limit is pretty pointless though since GPL have even less value than EC. And it has been made abundantly clear that GPL will stay worthless for all eternity since anything appropriate and worthwhile has been conveniently put into the Lobi crystal store instead.
Fleet starbases could become a good EC sink, although ultimately it will have little effect because in order for it to remain "affordable" to the average player, the price has to be low- so low that for the very rich, it will be insignificant. 500k EC/month upkeep. People were already creating threads and complaining on the forums about that when that number was first floated. However, to make a real dent in the economy you will have to be charging at least 10-20x that. Even 10,000,000 EC/month is small beans for most serious fleets. 500k EC/month is less than the pixie dust on the pocket lint in your pocket for many "rich" STO players, who are sitting on multiple alts worth of billion EC accounts, and banks full of items worth untold billions more at market rates.
However, I wouldn't be surprised if starbase upkeep was paid with dilithium. Highly profitable for Cryptic. And conveniently sidesteps the EC mess. Basically they have created ways for players to buy their way into game wealth with RL money, so they don't give a damn about the EC economy.
Fleet starbases could become a good EC sink, although ultimately it will have little effect because in order for it to remain "affordable" to the average player, the price has to be low- so low that for the very rich, it will be insignificant. 500k EC/month upkeep. People were already creating threads and complaining on the forums about that when that number was first floated. However, to make a real dent in the economy you will have to be charging at least 10-20x that. Even 10,000,000 EC/month is small beans for most serious fleets. 500k EC/month is less than the pixie dust on the pocket lint in your pocket for many "rich" STO players, who are sitting on multiple alts worth of billion EC accounts, and banks full of items worth untold billions more at market rates.
However, I wouldn't be surprised if starbase upkeep was paid with dilithium. Highly profitable for Cryptic. And conveniently sidesteps the EC mess. Basically they have created ways for players to buy their way into game wealth with RL money, so they don't give a damn about the EC economy.
I wouldn't be surprised if starbases came in various 'flavors'. They have mentioned they want to be able to give access to both small and large fleets. Yet there needs to be a way for large fleets to differentiate themselves from the smaller ones. One way around this is to make starbases of various sizes, and give ability to upgrade them with certain features. Small fleets may be able to afford the base model, but only larger ones can afford one with all the bellls and whistles. Nothing personal, but I certainly hope you are wrong about using dilithium for SB upkeep.
Comments
This goes against one of the most common rules of MMO design: The display value is meant to be immensely below the price that the rarity, benefit, and cash would give it. It's meant to be the token return of permanently removing the item from the game, not the player trade value.
That value is set so far below the fair value of an item as a deterrent against items simply being destroyed out of hand and instead traded - the limit you propose would simply mean the majority of items will be destroyed out of hand, the yield of selling them isn't worth the time, and the prices limits on items available mean there's no money demand. You think EC is worthless now, it becomes literally irrelevant under your system, as throwing loot down the replicator generates enough EC in a few days to outfit a dozen ships in mk XII purples.
This is why in most MMOs crafting resources have very little value, or even zero as with STO's. The same goes for consumables, tribbles, and so forth. Many items are designed to have no intrinsic value, but a nontrivial functional value to players. Your suggestion would limit crafting material and tribble prices to 0, and many consumables to 110.
Items I don't want I recycle or give away.
By that statement, you have never bought anything from C-Points, Dilithium(Medlas/emblems) or EDC's?
Impressive.
ROLF. Got a good laugh out of this one. Thanks.
LOL. Common sense doesn't have anything to do with it. Or, I guess I should say that your idea doesn't seem "common" based on what some of the posters in this thread have said. "Common sense" says that rare or hard to find items will cost more. That much, everyone can agree on (hence 'common sense'). But how much more? Well that depends on what the perceived value is. A 2% increase may not seem to be 'worth' 20 million EC to you, but to someone else it may be. If NO ONE thinks that it's worth 20 mill, the item won't sell, and it will get sent back to the seller when the listing expires, and he/she will then re-list it at a lower price. This will repeat until it sells. When it sells, then that is the 'correct market price' so to speak.
I've had plenty of fun researching prices and posting items for sale. Helps keep my inventory pretty clear.
If one is trying to make a living off the Exchange, it can be advantageous or aggravating....
Yet it sold the very next day. I celebrated like I hit the lottery!
And then I facepalmed myself when I realized that yes... people will pay ludicrous prices for things on the exchange.
So I observe with dread the inflation trend that's going on in the Exchange. Regular consumables are still as cheap as ever, and honestly, prices are rather static for regular purple gear (it's even dropped since Xmas). What's gone through the roof are the new items; Mk XII purple and blue consoles, Jevonite Hardpoints, Duty Officers (especially Bajoran and Cardassian ones), and starships. They've become an unattainable tier. To get these luxury items, players are forced to ignore the staples and traditional markets, such as your standard Mk XI purple gear and your hypos, and jack the price up on high demand luxury items so they can afford luxury items of their own.
Prices will eventually drop as demand cools off, but I doubt a lot of these items will drop below the million EC point. The president has been set. This is the new normal, and our EC comes off as having less purchasing power than ever.
TF-Omega, good luck. However, you'll need a lot more than just yourself to pull that off. You're not THAT big of a wheel in this game.
Now I spent c points indeed (for a uniform component and a pet Targ for example )
I do not buy Advantages
merely visuals
After all you can't be seen in a badly cut jacket it reflects poorly on your culture.
Trading in Games KILLS the Game in many cases.
My trading history disagrees with you
If you can't afford that price, someone else will eventually.
Right now I'm torn between a 45 mil mk xii neutronium and a mk xii field gen.
It is more than I want to pay. I'd give 30 mil comfortably for either.
(If you're the seller, feel free to pm me
why in the heck should I post it lower?
Gypsy! Give me your consoles and tears! If you will not give them to me, I will take them from you!
Seriously though, if you're the seller I mentioned please pm me and if not, begone you miser!
^ made my morning.. thanks lol
You're welcome.
Sells quickly that way. People love "bargains"!
See... I can be nice.
That would be a fair price for a Bortasq...
This is what happens when there are no or very little in the way of EC sinks in the game. This is the underlying cause of inflation. People tend to only think of supply/demand on the product side, and often forget that there is the payment/currency side as well. Too much EC created leads to higher prices - always. It's the reason that governments shouldn't just print more money. The total aggregate EC in the game is constantly increasing as people vendor their drops. Without proper sinks, prices will continue to go up (ie the purchasing power of ECs will continue to go down).
I've also said that the cost of staple items have been static. So don't worry... hypos and components are as cheap as ever.
So I mean to say that the ability to purchase luxury items have decreased as their prices increased.
Honestly, we have ourselves to blame. Since the exchange is totally run on invisible hand economics... we as players set the prices. Therefore we're at fault for throwing everything out of whack. We have to be the ones that correct it.
How? I don't know. People are too afraid to lower their prices to allow the market to correct itself.
Hypos are cheap because you can buy them from the NPC vendors. You can replicate the small/medium ones, so those prices are "fixed".
"We" cannot correct the inflation on the exchange. People aren't "afraid" to lower their prices. I sell a lot of items on the exchange. I still have a bank full of blue/purple gear that I crafted before F2P that I have to sell. I have also been doffing, and buy/sell doffs and gamma quadrant commodities frequently. I check the exchange fairly regularly. I will always check the going rate of something before I sell it. If it is below what I think it is worth, I will not list it. If the prices do not change over time, I am forced to realign my perceived value of the item to what the market says it's worth (or, hold on to it indefinitely and have it take up bank space).
So, the exchange economy 'works'. So long as there are people willing to pay a certain price, then that is, by definition, the 'going rate'. The amount people are willing to pay depends on the amount of EC in the system, and right now, there are no sinks to bring this down. When I leveled my Klink before F2P, I didn't sell anything on the exchange. All my unusable loot got vendored (and actually most of it got placed into the replicator at a 40% return as I was too lazy to actually go to an NPC to sell). I had over 2 million EC from that alone, created out of thin air just from playing. Assuming a lot of the new players are doing the same thing, the total EC in the game is growing rapidly. There is no place for all these EC to go, so prices go up on the exchange. When I had 2 mill, I didn't mind spending 100K on a green quantum torpedo. Now that I have more, I don't mind dropping even more EC than that. Spent 200K the other day on a single white doff just because the one I needed for a particular assignment was already on another assignment, and I didn't want to abort it.
Yes, this game needs an EC sink (at least if you want exchange prices to come down). BUT, Doffs aren't a sink because buying a doff merely transfers the EC to another player. You cannot buy doffs with EC from a vendor. The EC remains in the system. "Someone" still has the EC to spend. Nor are starships since the EC is merely transferred to another player. A 'sink' is one that actually takes EC out of the system. Dabo is one example of a sink, but at only a 100 EC bet limit, it is hardly significant.
Which is impossible to implement now because potential EC sinks end up being turned into Dilithium sinks instead... nuts!
Well, the next best thing is to increase supply.
TF-Omega, if you're serious about doing something about the sky high prices on the exchange, the best thing you can do is to form yourself a cartel and set prices yourself.
First, you're gonna need friends. Preferably friends with EC to burn. The more the merrier. Fleets... even better!
Second, you're gonna have to figure out who specializes in what. Maybe you know a Ker'rat farmer who's got lots of Mk XII purple stuff. Perhaps you got a guy who's a DOff specialist. Figure out who can do what, and have them assigned to their specialized markets.
I cannot stress the second point enough. One of the things that would discourage people from doing this is the size and scope of the exchange. You can't do it all alone. You need help. And you need people who know what their doing in their respective fields.
Third, Identify which markets you feel need to be adjusted.
Fourth... you gotta dedicate your people to production in their fields. Get your DOff people to churn out more DOffs than ever before. Get your Ker'rat farmers to work at grinding out Mk XII consoles. Production is key!
Then... manipulate the exchange.
The trick is not just to flood the exchange with cheap items and call it a day. Undercut too much and your stuff will not only sell too fast... it'll be resold at market price too! The trick to undercutting is just to put up your item just a little bit cheaper than anyone else. With this method, you can gradually lower prices to something a little more equitable.
And thanks to those who buy my doffs for 2 -5 million.
Sales Tax
Impossible? Hardly. How about increasing the bet limit at dabo to a million? And they can certainly make fleet starbases cost quite a bit of EC. And speaking of dilithium sinks, there is nothing wrong with having some dilithium sinks. Sinks are good in that it gives value to the currency that is used. That's the problem with inflation - it devalues the purchasing power of your EC, diltihium, or whatever currency you are using.
LOL. Good luck. As they say, altruism has no place in the market. I wonder how long these 'friends' of yours are going to spend gobs of time farming, and settle for a pittance of EC in return for their time (assuming that the goal is truly to LOWER prices on the exchange). They are going to sell for less? If anything, they could 'corner' the market and sell for MORE.
Won't help. The tax just gets passed along to the buyer. You think store prices are lower because they raise the sales tax? Nope. The consumer (ie the buyer) pays the tax.
Increasing the Dabo limit is pretty pointless though since GPL have even less value than EC. And it has been made abundantly clear that GPL will stay worthless for all eternity since anything appropriate and worthwhile has been conveniently put into the Lobi crystal store instead.
Fleet starbases could become a good EC sink, although ultimately it will have little effect because in order for it to remain "affordable" to the average player, the price has to be low- so low that for the very rich, it will be insignificant. 500k EC/month upkeep. People were already creating threads and complaining on the forums about that when that number was first floated. However, to make a real dent in the economy you will have to be charging at least 10-20x that. Even 10,000,000 EC/month is small beans for most serious fleets. 500k EC/month is less than the pixie dust on the pocket lint in your pocket for many "rich" STO players, who are sitting on multiple alts worth of billion EC accounts, and banks full of items worth untold billions more at market rates.
However, I wouldn't be surprised if starbase upkeep was paid with dilithium. Highly profitable for Cryptic. And conveniently sidesteps the EC mess. Basically they have created ways for players to buy their way into game wealth with RL money, so they don't give a damn about the EC economy.
I wouldn't be surprised if starbases came in various 'flavors'. They have mentioned they want to be able to give access to both small and large fleets. Yet there needs to be a way for large fleets to differentiate themselves from the smaller ones. One way around this is to make starbases of various sizes, and give ability to upgrade them with certain features. Small fleets may be able to afford the base model, but only larger ones can afford one with all the bellls and whistles. Nothing personal, but I certainly hope you are wrong about using dilithium for SB upkeep.
You really are conflicted, bro.