Actually FirstAngelus, if you recall STO launched with KDF being a shell PVP only faction because Cryptic never imagined there would be players that want to only play Klingons. No PVE content was made, less than half as many ships were released and only one uniform. We the players asked for more content to flesh out the faction. If the die hard KDF players wanted to be Federation lackeys don't you think they would have just rolled Federation Klingons long ago?
Oh ad the house wars you mentioned, non existent since there aren't even any houses. It is exactly the same as FvF pvp. One match you are red team, the next blue.
No, it startet as PvP faction because cryptic didnt manage to finish them before release. They were supposed to be a full faction.
And I said that not everybody would like that. But I know a lot of players, like myself, play klingons because they like the ships. But I want fitting uniforms for my crew, missions to play ect ect ect too.
And, as I suggestet; the Klingons will not get those things.
How about the Fedeeration just stops being nice and leaves the Empire alone with the little Borg problem DStahl promised them :rolleyes:.
The Federation would have a gain either way:
1 Not helping them
- Klingons would be weakened
- Gorn would be assimilated
- The klingons would finally see that they can't even protect their own worlds without crying for help
- Tear the rest of the Borg and the Klingon empire up
- Let the Federation flag fly over the Great hall
2 Helping them
- Not even a simple 'Thanky you'
- Weakening our own forces
- Loosing the lifes of Federation citizens for an enemy
You see not helping them definitely has more pros than cons.
How about the Fedeeration just stops being nice and leaves the Empire alone with the little Borg problem DStahl promised them :rolleyes:.
The Federation would have a gain either way:
1 Not helping them
- Klingons would be weakened
- Gorn would be assimilated
- The klingons would finally see that they can't even protect their own worlds without crying for help
- Tear the rest of the Borg and the Klingon empire up
- Let the Federation flag fly over the Great hall
2 Helping them
- Not even a simple 'Thanky you'
- Weakening our own forces
- Loosing the lifes of Federation citizens for an enemy
You see not helping them definitely has more pros than cons.
Aaanndd We totally wouldn't be playing the Federation if we did that.
If Cryptic implemented this and made it possible for a player or entire fleets to flag themselves as members of one house or the other, ok. But I am willing to bet the pro peace house would either be a near ghost town or on good nights Fed alts.
You might be right, but I've had a couple of conversations with people in my fleet who don't play KDF b/c of the lack of content and the painful grinding. It would be a way to boost activity and from there, if players are given the chance, maybe the rebel faction would grow.
You might be right, but I've had a couple of conversations with people in my fleet who don't play KDF b/c of the lack of content and the painful grinding. It would be a way to boost activity and from there, if players are given the chance, maybe the rebel faction would grow.
Giving the rebel faction a chance is Captains pledging themselves to it. So for more power and territory the enemy just asks for your fealty? These people are rarely honored by the enemy they welcome and never by the home to which they turned their backs. You are right about one thing, it would certainly increase PVP amongst the klingons. The traitors would be hunted at every turn.
So, the Federation cowards are scared of war. We should have known all along that they did not have the mettle to stand up to the might of the Klingon empire.
Watch them as they hide behind Federation principles and Federation rules, whilst Klingon warriors defend them from outside influences, whilst Federation pencil pushers 'um' and 'ah' over petty little details, and all the time belying the fact that the Federation has become a parody of itself.
Nay, let the Federation stand or fall! let it test its mettle against our might, and if they prove themselves strong enough, then maybe (MAYBE) we they shall be able to earn our respect once more.
How about the Fedeeration just stops being nice and leaves the Empire alone with the little Borg problem DStahl promised them :rolleyes:.
The Federation would have a gain either way:
1 Not helping them
- Klingons would be weakened
- Gorn would be assimilated
- The klingons would finally see that they can't even protect their own worlds without crying for help
- Tear the rest of the Borg and the Klingon empire up
- Let the Federation flag fly over the Great hall
2 Helping them
- Not even a simple 'Thanky you'
- Weakening our own forces
- Loosing the lifes of Federation citizens for an enemy
You see not helping them definitely has more pros than cons.
DStahl never said the Borg attack on the Gorn would be playable by Feds. For all we know, as the facts stand now, it could be considered a safe assumption that it will be a KDF-only occurrence.
Perhaps to encourage some Fed-only players to finally roll a KDF alt.
DStahl never said the Borg attack on the Gorn would be playable by Feds. For all we know, as the facts stand now, it could be considered a safe assumption that it will be a KDF-only occurrence.
Perhaps to encourage some Fed-only players to finally roll a KDF alt.
And once again it's about bribing people to do something they don't want to do....
~shrug~
While I really do appreciate all the calls for "Never surrender!", I think there has to be some serious look at this from a game mechanic standpoint. It's profoundly unlikely that the KDF will ever come close to the Federation for numbers, not players, not missions, not ship variety.
When the game launched it was spun that you did Fed for PVE and a little PVP, and you rolled KDF if you wanted to do PVP with a little PVE on the side. And now we have people 500 days later happily entrenched in their own prefered factions and the KDF is still lagging profoundly in content.
We can talk up all the lore reasons we want for not ending the war, but from a pure game mechanics and player populations stand point, this may be the only way to eliminate the Klingon Grind before we hit the point of them handing out 1000 day vet rewards.
If the Federation has become a parody of itself now, the Klingon Empire became a parody of itself a long time ago. In TOS and TMP eras, the Klingons were a cultured warrior society that valued the arts as much as they valued combat. Now the Klingon are just honor spouting cowards who are so narrow minded in their lust for battle and glory it makes them very 1 dimensional as a race.
Yes the current "war" could have been avoided if the Feds had listened to the Klingons, but I seem to recall another incident where many Klingon lives could have been saved if the Klingons had listened to Feds. Attempted invasion of Cardassia to kill some Founders that weren't there. That pushed Cardassia in to the Dominion camp and helped lead to the Dominion War. Do I need to bring up Martok being a changling? Great security.
And once again it's about bribing people to do something they don't want to do....
~shrug~
While I really do appreciate all the calls for "Never surrender!", I think there has to be some serious look at this from a game mechanic standpoint. It's profoundly unlikely that the KDF will ever come close to the Federation for numbers, not players, not missions, not ship variety.
When the game launched it was spun that you did Fed for PVE and a little PVP, and you rolled KDF if you wanted to do PVP with a little PVE on the side. And now we have people 500 days later happily entrenched in their own prefered factions and the KDF is still lagging profoundly in content.
We can talk up all the lore reasons we want for not ending the war, but from a pure game mechanics and player populations stand point, this may be the only way to eliminate the Klingon Grind before we hit the point of them handing out 1000 day vet rewards.
Im all for more KDF content, but im not sure what ending the war would provide. If you are meaning that the KDF would have access to all fed missions and content, that idea defeats the purpose of what you are suggesting.
Another faction with the same content as the other, would be another faction in name alone. A clone with no meaning, and a 'faction' in name alone.
I would say give the KDF more content, or remove them from the game, giving them the same fed missions available to the majoritory would be a pointless endevour. Alll in all it would mean the only difference between feds and kdf was the colour blue/red, ridges, and carriers for all. (easy street to a carrier in essense)
I personally love the idea of ending the war. I always loved the Fed/Klink alliance in DS9. and it bugged me that the STO storyline is so "already be done" in the DS9 series (replace founders with Undine,...they're the same). And since its CANON that klnks eventually join the federation as members, it seems odd that we're fighting now.
My big reason that I think it would be great, is for cross-faction teaming, and it would open the door to the romulans. WIth klinks and feds on the same team, even in pvp against romulans, would be a lot of fun.
Of course the current FVK modes and system challenges should still be there to precipitate rogue/pirate/Coldwar type klingon v federation engagements.
I just don't see the romulans coming out and not Killing the KDF faction as a whole w/o this kind of change. and I just love the idea of klingon/fed alliance, since it resonates with me as being a DS9 Fan.
Edit thought:
Each faction should have some content that is exclusive, along with some territories that are exclusive to give it character, but for the big picture, it'd be alot of fun.
And once again it's about bribing people to do something they don't want to do....
~shrug~
While I really do appreciate all the calls for "Never surrender!", I think there has to be some serious look at this from a game mechanic standpoint. It's profoundly unlikely that the KDF will ever come close to the Federation for numbers, not players, not missions, not ship variety.
When the game launched it was spun that you did Fed for PVE and a little PVP, and you rolled KDF if you wanted to do PVP with a little PVE on the side. And now we have people 500 days later happily entrenched in their own prefered factions and the KDF is still lagging profoundly in content.
We can talk up all the lore reasons we want for not ending the war, but from a pure game mechanics and player populations stand point, this may be the only way to eliminate the Klingon Grind before we hit the point of them handing out 1000 day vet rewards.
Herald Herald Herald.. :rolleyes:
It's not about making anyone do anything. It's a recognition of the situation the KDF & Cryptics devs are in.
In order to give the KDF more exclusive PvE content, the money-counters at Cryptic have to see larger KDF population numbers. The number 1 reason most players don't play KDF is.. Lack of KDF-exclusive PvE content.
It's not that the vast majority of people dislike the KDF (though to be sure, there are those who do), it's not that there's any kind of Patriotic Pro-Fed fervor, it's just that the KDF doesn't offer enough to make the investment in time & effort worthwhile. If the KDF did offer enough to justify the time & effort, they would play a KDF alt.
It's a Chicken & the Egg problem, a bit of circular logic, a catch-22. And players, like yourself, who mean well, keep proposing solutions that simply will not work. More Featured Episodes? Why roll a KDF toon just for content freely available on your Fed? Making Peace, and giving the KDF access to the Fed PvE, again, why roll a KDF toon for content freely available to your Fed?
Cryptics penny-pinchers are not going to green-light any KDF-exclusive content unless KDF population increases, so one of the two solutions presented by the catch-22 (more KDF-exclusive content) is a no-go. The other solution, the only other solution, is to increase KDF population.
So yes, we are going to encourage KDF population growth, by hook or by crook. By keeping our exclusive content & items exclusive as much as we can. By petitioning as much as we can for KDF-exclusive content or fluff, by trying to get as much as we possibly can to shift the cost-benefit analysis that every STO player instinctively does when they consider whether or not to roll & level a KDF toon.
Like it or not, the KDF is here, we've either paid just as much for lifetime, or pay just as much, just as often for our subs as Fed players do, and we will keep demanding we get what we've paid for, we're not paying for half a Faction, or one and a half Factions, we're all, yes, even you, paying for two full Factions, and by golly, it's time we got them.
It's not about making anyone do anything. It's a recognition of the situation the KDF & Cryptics devs are in.
In order to give the KDF more exclusive PvE content, the money-counters at Cryptic have to see larger KDF population numbers. The number 1 reason most players don't play KDF is.. Lack of KDF-exclusive PvE content.
It's not that the vast majority of people dislike the KDF (though to be sure, there are those who do), it's not that there's any kind of Patriotic Pro-Fed fervor, it's just that the KDF doesn't offer enough to make the investment in time & effort worthwhile. If the KDF did offer enough to justify the time & effort, they would play a KDF alt.
It's a Chicken & the Egg problem, a bit of circular logic, a catch-22. And players, like yourself, who mean well, keep proposing solutions that simply will not work. More Featured Episodes? Why roll a KDF toon just for content freely available on your Fed? Making Peace, and giving the KDF access to the Fed PvE, again, why roll a KDF toon for content freely available to your Fed?
Cryptics penny-pinchers are not going to green-light any KDF-exclusive content unless KDF population increases, so one of the two solutions presented by the catch-22 (more KDF-exclusive content) is a no-go. The other solution, the only other solution, is to increase KDF population.
So yes, we are going to encourage KDF population growth, by hook or by crook. By keeping our exclusive content & items exclusive as much as we can. By petitioning as much as we can for KDF-exclusive content or fluff, by trying to get as much as we possibly can to shift the cost-benefit analysis that every STO player instinctively does when they consider whether or not to roll & level a KDF toon.
Like it or not, the KDF is here, we've either paid just as much for lifetime, or pay just as much, just as often for our subs as Fed players do, and we will keep demanding we get what we've paid for, we're not paying for half a Faction, or one and a half Factions, we're all, yes, even you, paying for two full Factions, and by golly, it's time we got them.
You miss the the whole point of "chicken and egg" argument, It's not something that is rare, most "wiki" people do the same.
Add all the content you want, you won't draw numbers like the FEDs do.
Granted I say you have no idea of what "most" people want. I only say what I do from polls (Nagus will link you), and general fandom...
You aren't a Klingon fan, just a second faction fan. Even that is showing to be a idea not important to this game.
IMHO, you won't draw numbers with content, it's a slippery slope of hope.
I have nothing against Klingon content, just the idea that they would be equal, in number and fans, if it was added. Business trumps any Chicken or Eggs. Sometimes if you build it, no one comes.:rolleyes:
Then again you could just blame people, whose job it is too make money, of not understanding.
Like it or not, the KDF is here, we've either paid just as much for lifetime, or pay just as much, just as often for our subs as Fed players do, and we will keep demanding we get what we've paid for, we're not paying for half a Faction, or one and a half Factions, we're all, yes, even you, paying for two full Factions, and by golly, it's time we got them.
Only we're not going to.
Really. They're dedicating energy to Revamping OLD content. They're going to roll out featured episodes for all. They're going to dangle Romulans for "When the KDF is more fleshed out" but really? And they've baited you in with the magic word "If". "If we get enough KDF players then you can have.... " and it doesn't matter if the rest of the sentance is a dime, a dollar or a Billion.
The KDF just won't be as popular as the Federation for a billion and a half reasons. Exclusive content may draw some over, but no matter how much exclusive you offer, it's not going to balance out. And if you're waiting for the magic day that the Development Staff says "Okay we FINALLY have enough Klingon players to do X" then I have a bad feeling the servers will go dark first.
Yes we pay for two full factions but we don't ahve them and I don't think we ever will.
Which gets me back to the "let's be realistic about where we can go from here".
They're opening up Fed Space to Klingons. Why? Not because the Feds are losing the war. They're doing it to ease travel and try to get more people flying around looking at each other and feeling like the game is full. And, probably, to eventually add more Joint content. Joint content is easier to create and you double your bang for your buck.
I say TRIBBLE the war, call it over, let rogue factions duke it out from time to time and let the KDF have a huge boost of content. Yes it will be very similar to the Feds but it will give that much MORE stuff to the KDF to do. ANd doing that ~may~ just maybe help your numbers out.
I think some are assuming that the Undine can be reasoned with. That they will eventually realize they made a mistake and start making nice so everyone can go fight the Iconians.
But I played through that mission where you enter Fluidic Space... and the Undine were not portrayed as a fundamentally benevolent species that got provoked into hostility. They were basically the Klingons of Fluidic Space, conquering and subjugating weaker races. We don't necessarily understand their motives like we understand the Klingons, but like the Klingons they are not inherently peaceful.
There are plenty of reasons for the UPF/Klingon Empire relations to remain unstable, and Undine agents working to destabilize all of the Alpha Quadrant races is one good reason for the war to keep going. The KDF will never trust the Undine and will not be understanding or tolerant of Federation attempts to open peace talks with the Undine.
From a gameplay perspective, it makes sense to create tension between the factions and using that tension to drive more content.
Honestly I think the War should remain, from my perspective. I think people think too much on the scale of WWII or so where the full military might of two or more nations clashed. Where this is more like two different factions are disagreeing, and showing actual force to take their stance.
Both sides has too much to deal with to commit fully to a war, and too much to lose if they do as well. They are both hardheaded and committed to their beliefs (Peace/Conquest) to ever truely stay allies or even get along for too long before they must part ways. Look at it like two street gangs, fighting isnt always good for business. But sometimes you have to show whos boss.
So they arent in a true war from our perspective, but they still declare it (Klingons feel weak unless they are at war/Federation has no choice but to take the opposite stance) if they run skirmishes, or force fleets across and hit key points during a time when the otherside is too busy with other matters (Romulan ColdWar, Borg Incursions, True Way Terrorism). They can gain ground and do not have to expect a large enough reaction to effect them....what it comes down to is, if they lose the small attack force sent to stir up trouble, or if their fleet is forced into a retreat. They dont have to worry about to heavy of losses, or a large scale reaction. but they still get the point across to the otherside.
When contemplating a peace between the Fed and KDF factions and all the opportunities that it would present for content, think about the following questions:
So what happens to the population percentages of the two current factions if/when a third faction is introduced? If / when a fourth faction is introduced? If any other factions are introduced?
Does anyone foresee a mass exodus from the Feds to Romulans or Cardassians? Or will the larger percentage of population movement come from the KDF because KDF players are already non-Fed players?
Do you really believe that faction-exclusive content would be enough to draw a significant percentage of STO players away from the Fed to the non-Fed factions?
Based on your own answers above, how would you justify the undertaking of providing faction-exclusive content to the percentages of the player base that would be interested in experiencing that content?
I think it's time for a peace, for most. Some will never be at peace and will continue fighting until their last breath. For those there is always PvP.
I understand that the idea of having a "Hot War" between the Federation and the Klingons (Fed and KDF) was a good idea in theory. Players would pick a faction, and effectively have two different games with PVP being the overlap.
Problem is this: The KDF don't have enough content to really be a "different" game, and PVP isn't enough of a draw to keep the Fed coming to the game to duke it out with those pesky Klingons.
So declare peace. You already have both factions doing the Featured Episodes and (I wager) will continue to do so. Rather than recoding/ writing ALL of the other missions, 75% of the Fed missions are ~not~ against the Empire directly but factions within it, or totally different alien groups (Borg anyone?). Heck that first mission with the Undine imposter where you have to fight past Klingons? All you need to do to 'rework' that for Klingons is change the ambassador's race, and make it a group of very very overzelous Feds that want to take him in. Boom. Another mission/ quest line for the KDF.
Declare an end to the "Hot War" but let the Cold War remain for the purposes of PVP and of course the periodic mission. The KDF already has some nice exclusive content (I really am learning to like the sorties). Plus with the ability to group with the Federation for a periodic mission (since the war is over, right?) you open up EVEN MORE content to content-starved KDF.
Think of it this way: The Fed and KDF still hate each other. But there are bigger fish to fry in the universe than each other. Yes, if the Feds find a listening post or if the KDF find some stealth sensor arrays, they're going to take them out. But they're not going to commit the resources to a massive full scale WAR (like they supposedly are doing now) over it. They'll deal, file a compliant and let the ambassadors keep score.
And you encourage even more people to roll KDF because they can still group with their Fed buddies for some missions which effect puts more people IN the KDF which is also a major rolling compliant.
The idea of two warring factions is an outdated concept that even WoW has more or less abandoned. While the factions in WoW can't group, the lines between them continue to blur and there is less and less development of faction exclusive content in the end game; it's just not cost effective. EQ2 launched with side swapping, COX has joint missions as well as side swapping, CO doesn't have a villain faction. When resources are limited you have to ask if it's really worth it to keep pushing them appart or if it's time to do what can be done to simply provide more content to the smaller KDF.
Not all missions will translate but really many many will.
My ship's dedication plaque:
The IKS Kala'yaan is hearby charged to kill feddies. Lots and lots of feddies.
My Klingon Academy class of 2409:
Class color: Human red, vulcan green, andorian blue, whatever-pigments-the-rest-of-the-feddie-species-blood-are
Class motto: Feddie must die
Class song: I killed a Feddie and I liked it, hope my classmates don't mind it
Class ring: Made from the bones of dead Feddies
Class commencement address speaker: Random Feddie prisoner begging for his Feddie life, just before we used him for target practice
My bloodwine: Right mixture of Feddie tears and Feddie blood, chilled to 13.5 degrees centigrade
I appreciate your well argued PoV but actually in the case of STO I disagree with there assertion that there isn't much of a difference between the two factions. I agree fully with your assertion of the differences in WoW, for example.
That said I play both factions in STO and enjoy them hugely and (as a player of EQ2, SWG, WoW and many other titles - with characters in both camps, for RP, PVP and PvE) for me STO actually has the most distinctive factions.
I think a large part of this is (a) how polarised the factions are in terms of nature and (b) the UGC and missions, which fuel this (and help foster RP - certainly I hope much more so once player bases are a reality, though that's probably 6-12 months away).
I really struggle a bit to make a hot war with Klingons fit in with my vision of the Trek universe (it wasn't this hostile even in TOS) but it does serve it's purpose from a gameplay perspective. That said, I wouldn't mind if it was toned down a bit, to just an active war within the neutral zone and immediate vicinity - that would sit a lot better with me and still provide good scope for conflict and PvP.
Comments
No, it startet as PvP faction because cryptic didnt manage to finish them before release. They were supposed to be a full faction.
And I said that not everybody would like that. But I know a lot of players, like myself, play klingons because they like the ships. But I want fitting uniforms for my crew, missions to play ect ect ect too.
And, as I suggestet; the Klingons will not get those things.
The Federation would have a gain either way:
1 Not helping them
- Klingons would be weakened
- Gorn would be assimilated
- The klingons would finally see that they can't even protect their own worlds without crying for help
- Tear the rest of the Borg and the Klingon empire up
- Let the Federation flag fly over the Great hall
2 Helping them
- Not even a simple 'Thanky you'
- Weakening our own forces
- Loosing the lifes of Federation citizens for an enemy
You see not helping them definitely has more pros than cons.
Aaanndd We totally wouldn't be playing the Federation if we did that.
You might be right, but I've had a couple of conversations with people in my fleet who don't play KDF b/c of the lack of content and the painful grinding. It would be a way to boost activity and from there, if players are given the chance, maybe the rebel faction would grow.
Giving the rebel faction a chance is Captains pledging themselves to it. So for more power and territory the enemy just asks for your fealty? These people are rarely honored by the enemy they welcome and never by the home to which they turned their backs. You are right about one thing, it would certainly increase PVP amongst the klingons. The traitors would be hunted at every turn.
Watch them as they hide behind Federation principles and Federation rules, whilst Klingon warriors defend them from outside influences, whilst Federation pencil pushers 'um' and 'ah' over petty little details, and all the time belying the fact that the Federation has become a parody of itself.
Nay, let the Federation stand or fall! let it test its mettle against our might, and if they prove themselves strong enough, then maybe (MAYBE) we they shall be able to earn our respect once more.
Only the mighty and the brave shall survive!
GLORY TO THE EMPIRE!!!!
DStahl never said the Borg attack on the Gorn would be playable by Feds. For all we know, as the facts stand now, it could be considered a safe assumption that it will be a KDF-only occurrence.
Perhaps to encourage some Fed-only players to finally roll a KDF alt.
And once again it's about bribing people to do something they don't want to do....
~shrug~
While I really do appreciate all the calls for "Never surrender!", I think there has to be some serious look at this from a game mechanic standpoint. It's profoundly unlikely that the KDF will ever come close to the Federation for numbers, not players, not missions, not ship variety.
When the game launched it was spun that you did Fed for PVE and a little PVP, and you rolled KDF if you wanted to do PVP with a little PVE on the side. And now we have people 500 days later happily entrenched in their own prefered factions and the KDF is still lagging profoundly in content.
We can talk up all the lore reasons we want for not ending the war, but from a pure game mechanics and player populations stand point, this may be the only way to eliminate the Klingon Grind before we hit the point of them handing out 1000 day vet rewards.
Yes the current "war" could have been avoided if the Feds had listened to the Klingons, but I seem to recall another incident where many Klingon lives could have been saved if the Klingons had listened to Feds. Attempted invasion of Cardassia to kill some Founders that weren't there. That pushed Cardassia in to the Dominion camp and helped lead to the Dominion War. Do I need to bring up Martok being a changling? Great security.
Im all for more KDF content, but im not sure what ending the war would provide. If you are meaning that the KDF would have access to all fed missions and content, that idea defeats the purpose of what you are suggesting.
Another faction with the same content as the other, would be another faction in name alone. A clone with no meaning, and a 'faction' in name alone.
I would say give the KDF more content, or remove them from the game, giving them the same fed missions available to the majoritory would be a pointless endevour. Alll in all it would mean the only difference between feds and kdf was the colour blue/red, ridges, and carriers for all. (easy street to a carrier in essense)
My big reason that I think it would be great, is for cross-faction teaming, and it would open the door to the romulans. WIth klinks and feds on the same team, even in pvp against romulans, would be a lot of fun.
Of course the current FVK modes and system challenges should still be there to precipitate rogue/pirate/Coldwar type klingon v federation engagements.
I just don't see the romulans coming out and not Killing the KDF faction as a whole w/o this kind of change. and I just love the idea of klingon/fed alliance, since it resonates with me as being a DS9 Fan.
Each faction should have some content that is exclusive, along with some territories that are exclusive to give it character, but for the big picture, it'd be alot of fun.
Herald Herald Herald.. :rolleyes:
It's not about making anyone do anything. It's a recognition of the situation the KDF & Cryptics devs are in.
In order to give the KDF more exclusive PvE content, the money-counters at Cryptic have to see larger KDF population numbers. The number 1 reason most players don't play KDF is.. Lack of KDF-exclusive PvE content.
It's not that the vast majority of people dislike the KDF (though to be sure, there are those who do), it's not that there's any kind of Patriotic Pro-Fed fervor, it's just that the KDF doesn't offer enough to make the investment in time & effort worthwhile. If the KDF did offer enough to justify the time & effort, they would play a KDF alt.
It's a Chicken & the Egg problem, a bit of circular logic, a catch-22. And players, like yourself, who mean well, keep proposing solutions that simply will not work. More Featured Episodes? Why roll a KDF toon just for content freely available on your Fed? Making Peace, and giving the KDF access to the Fed PvE, again, why roll a KDF toon for content freely available to your Fed?
Cryptics penny-pinchers are not going to green-light any KDF-exclusive content unless KDF population increases, so one of the two solutions presented by the catch-22 (more KDF-exclusive content) is a no-go. The other solution, the only other solution, is to increase KDF population.
So yes, we are going to encourage KDF population growth, by hook or by crook. By keeping our exclusive content & items exclusive as much as we can. By petitioning as much as we can for KDF-exclusive content or fluff, by trying to get as much as we possibly can to shift the cost-benefit analysis that every STO player instinctively does when they consider whether or not to roll & level a KDF toon.
Like it or not, the KDF is here, we've either paid just as much for lifetime, or pay just as much, just as often for our subs as Fed players do, and we will keep demanding we get what we've paid for, we're not paying for half a Faction, or one and a half Factions, we're all, yes, even you, paying for two full Factions, and by golly, it's time we got them.
You miss the the whole point of "chicken and egg" argument, It's not something that is rare, most "wiki" people do the same.
Add all the content you want, you won't draw numbers like the FEDs do.
Granted I say you have no idea of what "most" people want. I only say what I do from polls (Nagus will link you), and general fandom...
You aren't a Klingon fan, just a second faction fan. Even that is showing to be a idea not important to this game.
IMHO, you won't draw numbers with content, it's a slippery slope of hope.
I have nothing against Klingon content, just the idea that they would be equal, in number and fans, if it was added. Business trumps any Chicken or Eggs. Sometimes if you build it, no one comes.:rolleyes:
Then again you could just blame people, whose job it is too make money, of not understanding.
Only we're not going to.
Really. They're dedicating energy to Revamping OLD content. They're going to roll out featured episodes for all. They're going to dangle Romulans for "When the KDF is more fleshed out" but really? And they've baited you in with the magic word "If". "If we get enough KDF players then you can have.... " and it doesn't matter if the rest of the sentance is a dime, a dollar or a Billion.
The KDF just won't be as popular as the Federation for a billion and a half reasons. Exclusive content may draw some over, but no matter how much exclusive you offer, it's not going to balance out. And if you're waiting for the magic day that the Development Staff says "Okay we FINALLY have enough Klingon players to do X" then I have a bad feeling the servers will go dark first.
Yes we pay for two full factions but we don't ahve them and I don't think we ever will.
Which gets me back to the "let's be realistic about where we can go from here".
They're opening up Fed Space to Klingons. Why? Not because the Feds are losing the war. They're doing it to ease travel and try to get more people flying around looking at each other and feeling like the game is full. And, probably, to eventually add more Joint content. Joint content is easier to create and you double your bang for your buck.
I say TRIBBLE the war, call it over, let rogue factions duke it out from time to time and let the KDF have a huge boost of content. Yes it will be very similar to the Feds but it will give that much MORE stuff to the KDF to do. ANd doing that ~may~ just maybe help your numbers out.
I think some are assuming that the Undine can be reasoned with. That they will eventually realize they made a mistake and start making nice so everyone can go fight the Iconians.
But I played through that mission where you enter Fluidic Space... and the Undine were not portrayed as a fundamentally benevolent species that got provoked into hostility. They were basically the Klingons of Fluidic Space, conquering and subjugating weaker races. We don't necessarily understand their motives like we understand the Klingons, but like the Klingons they are not inherently peaceful.
There are plenty of reasons for the UPF/Klingon Empire relations to remain unstable, and Undine agents working to destabilize all of the Alpha Quadrant races is one good reason for the war to keep going. The KDF will never trust the Undine and will not be understanding or tolerant of Federation attempts to open peace talks with the Undine.
From a gameplay perspective, it makes sense to create tension between the factions and using that tension to drive more content.
Both sides has too much to deal with to commit fully to a war, and too much to lose if they do as well. They are both hardheaded and committed to their beliefs (Peace/Conquest) to ever truely stay allies or even get along for too long before they must part ways. Look at it like two street gangs, fighting isnt always good for business. But sometimes you have to show whos boss.
So they arent in a true war from our perspective, but they still declare it (Klingons feel weak unless they are at war/Federation has no choice but to take the opposite stance) if they run skirmishes, or force fleets across and hit key points during a time when the otherside is too busy with other matters (Romulan ColdWar, Borg Incursions, True Way Terrorism). They can gain ground and do not have to expect a large enough reaction to effect them....what it comes down to is, if they lose the small attack force sent to stir up trouble, or if their fleet is forced into a retreat. They dont have to worry about to heavy of losses, or a large scale reaction. but they still get the point across to the otherside.
So what happens to the population percentages of the two current factions if/when a third faction is introduced? If / when a fourth faction is introduced? If any other factions are introduced?
Does anyone foresee a mass exodus from the Feds to Romulans or Cardassians? Or will the larger percentage of population movement come from the KDF because KDF players are already non-Fed players?
Do you really believe that faction-exclusive content would be enough to draw a significant percentage of STO players away from the Fed to the non-Fed factions?
Based on your own answers above, how would you justify the undertaking of providing faction-exclusive content to the percentages of the player base that would be interested in experiencing that content?
I think it's time for a peace, for most. Some will never be at peace and will continue fighting until their last breath. For those there is always PvP.
My ship's dedication plaque:
The IKS Kala'yaan is hearby charged to kill feddies. Lots and lots of feddies.
My Klingon Academy class of 2409:
Class color: Human red, vulcan green, andorian blue, whatever-pigments-the-rest-of-the-feddie-species-blood-are
Class motto: Feddie must die
Class song: I killed a Feddie and I liked it, hope my classmates don't mind it
Class ring: Made from the bones of dead Feddies
Class commencement address speaker: Random Feddie prisoner begging for his Feddie life, just before we used him for target practice
My bloodwine: Right mixture of Feddie tears and Feddie blood, chilled to 13.5 degrees centigrade
Do you get the picture, Feddie?
I appreciate your well argued PoV but actually in the case of STO I disagree with there assertion that there isn't much of a difference between the two factions. I agree fully with your assertion of the differences in WoW, for example.
That said I play both factions in STO and enjoy them hugely and (as a player of EQ2, SWG, WoW and many other titles - with characters in both camps, for RP, PVP and PvE) for me STO actually has the most distinctive factions.
I think a large part of this is (a) how polarised the factions are in terms of nature and (b) the UGC and missions, which fuel this (and help foster RP - certainly I hope much more so once player bases are a reality, though that's probably 6-12 months away).
I really struggle a bit to make a hot war with Klingons fit in with my vision of the Trek universe (it wasn't this hostile even in TOS) but it does serve it's purpose from a gameplay perspective. That said, I wouldn't mind if it was toned down a bit, to just an active war within the neutral zone and immediate vicinity - that would sit a lot better with me and still provide good scope for conflict and PvP.