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It is time to Declare Peace
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I understand that the idea of having a "Hot War" between the Federation and the Klingons (Fed and KDF) was a good idea in theory. Players would pick a faction, and effectively have two different games with PVP being the overlap.
Problem is this: The KDF don't have enough content to really be a "different" game, and PVP isn't enough of a draw to keep the Fed coming to the game to duke it out with those pesky Klingons.
So declare peace. You already have both factions doing the Featured Episodes and (I wager) will continue to do so. Rather than recoding/ writing ALL of the other missions, 75% of the Fed missions are ~not~ against the Empire directly but factions within it, or totally different alien groups (Borg anyone?). Heck that first mission with the Undine imposter where you have to fight past Klingons? All you need to do to 'rework' that for Klingons is change the ambassador's race, and make it a group of very very overzelous Feds that want to take him in. Boom. Another mission/ quest line for the KDF.
Declare an end to the "Hot War" but let the Cold War remain for the purposes of PVP and of course the periodic mission. The KDF already has some nice exclusive content (I really am learning to like the sorties). Plus with the ability to group with the Federation for a periodic mission (since the war is over, right?) you open up EVEN MORE content to content-starved KDF.
Think of it this way: The Fed and KDF still hate each other. But there are bigger fish to fry in the universe than each other. Yes, if the Feds find a listening post or if the KDF find some stealth sensor arrays, they're going to take them out. But they're not going to commit the resources to a massive full scale WAR (like they supposedly are doing now) over it. They'll deal, file a compliant and let the ambassadors keep score.
And you encourage even more people to roll KDF because they can still group with their Fed buddies for some missions which effect puts more people IN the KDF which is also a major rolling compliant.
The idea of two warring factions is an outdated concept that even WoW has more or less abandoned. While the factions in WoW can't group, the lines between them continue to blur and there is less and less development of faction exclusive content in the end game; it's just not cost effective. EQ2 launched with side swapping, COX has joint missions as well as side swapping, CO doesn't have a villain faction. When resources are limited you have to ask if it's really worth it to keep pushing them appart or if it's time to do what can be done to simply provide more content to the smaller KDF.
Not all missions will translate but really many many will.
Problem is this: The KDF don't have enough content to really be a "different" game, and PVP isn't enough of a draw to keep the Fed coming to the game to duke it out with those pesky Klingons.
So declare peace. You already have both factions doing the Featured Episodes and (I wager) will continue to do so. Rather than recoding/ writing ALL of the other missions, 75% of the Fed missions are ~not~ against the Empire directly but factions within it, or totally different alien groups (Borg anyone?). Heck that first mission with the Undine imposter where you have to fight past Klingons? All you need to do to 'rework' that for Klingons is change the ambassador's race, and make it a group of very very overzelous Feds that want to take him in. Boom. Another mission/ quest line for the KDF.
Declare an end to the "Hot War" but let the Cold War remain for the purposes of PVP and of course the periodic mission. The KDF already has some nice exclusive content (I really am learning to like the sorties). Plus with the ability to group with the Federation for a periodic mission (since the war is over, right?) you open up EVEN MORE content to content-starved KDF.
Think of it this way: The Fed and KDF still hate each other. But there are bigger fish to fry in the universe than each other. Yes, if the Feds find a listening post or if the KDF find some stealth sensor arrays, they're going to take them out. But they're not going to commit the resources to a massive full scale WAR (like they supposedly are doing now) over it. They'll deal, file a compliant and let the ambassadors keep score.
And you encourage even more people to roll KDF because they can still group with their Fed buddies for some missions which effect puts more people IN the KDF which is also a major rolling compliant.
The idea of two warring factions is an outdated concept that even WoW has more or less abandoned. While the factions in WoW can't group, the lines between them continue to blur and there is less and less development of faction exclusive content in the end game; it's just not cost effective. EQ2 launched with side swapping, COX has joint missions as well as side swapping, CO doesn't have a villain faction. When resources are limited you have to ask if it's really worth it to keep pushing them appart or if it's time to do what can be done to simply provide more content to the smaller KDF.
Not all missions will translate but really many many will.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Meh. Find the mission text and replace "the Klingon Empire" with "a rogue house of the Empire".
There. It's not the Klingons, it's some small faction.
Then on the Klingon side, you replace "the Federation" with "a band of Federation sepratists" or "a group of mercenaries" or "the New Maquis" or "Section 31" or "a rogue captain and those loyal to him".
Given that there is a finite number of missions in the game that kind of text update should be do-able in a matter of days, not weeks.
Agreed ^
and since open beta....War........???.....where? imo in name only, and also the Feds and KDF do work together on several missons, and occupy the same space in several locations. War?? in name only...bring the 2 factions together and call it. For now it feels like 2 seperate countries, neither hating nor liking, just meh...:cool:
Hm... how to get around that?
Open World PVP with flagging: That is just dismissed as a rogue vessel. Both sides know it happens. Both sides know that they SHOULD do something about it but there just aren't the resources to hunt down pirates within their factions given the bigger problems like the Borg, Undine and Iconians.
Territory Control Zones: Simply put there is no way to negotiate for the limited resources. So the treaty of crossed swords establishes that what happens in the "contested zone" stays in the contested zone. Both factions will send some resources there but again, given the threat of the bigger fish, it's not worth EITHER side declaring full open war and as long as the fighting remains contained they let it go.
OR....
Territory Control Zones: Ship captains are given liscence by their commands to take on contracts within the contested zone. Becuase the Fed are genearlly supportive of "their side" they are willing to take the risk and "rent out" their ships. Because the KDF tend to let captains do what ever they like, they are willing to let them sign on with "Their Side".
Not that hard to come up with a story based way to spin it.
Unless Klingons suddenly are cool with people cramping on their space... which isn't very faithful to the shows.
I know the game's taken a lot of liberties with the IP but "enemies with benefits" doesn't really match anything in the shows. The Klingons declared war over a Starfleet vessel rescuing some Klingons and boarding the ship.
Would cultural norms really change to the point where they'd be down with border invasion, so long as the enemy is there game day?
Now what Cryptic needs to do is allow us to team up on STFs and possibly even Featured Episodes. However the PvP needs to stay because every game has PvP. It can be rationalized as war games/exercises.
While I've not ever denied that I'm Pro Fed Carrier, this is it's own suggestion.
Bottom line is that the Carrier discussions do bring up another valid point: The KDF is hurt in the content department and there are PILES of content in the Fed area that could easily be turned KDF with some tweeks to the language. And small tweeks.
As to staying true to the show, through the run of TNG there were mulitple cases of sides opening fire but not declaring war. War was declared when it was convient to plot and incidents ignored for the same reason. It's like all writing; it has to be plausable, no more.
I think you can keep some kind of "Rogue Factions" on both sides (including when we see the Romulan Faction) and still have general peace between them. The war heats up a bit just as in the real cold war Nato-Supported troops squared off with Soviet Supported Troops without Nato directly firing on Soviets. The same could be done with a territory control game. OFFICIALLY no faction is part of the battle over a certain area. However both sides have their proxies to support.
Qapla'! XD
"Oh, now be honest, Captain, warrior to warrior. You do prefer it this way, don't you, as it was meant to be? No peace in our time. "Once more unto the breach, dear friends." General Chang Star Trek VI.
And of course "We need breathing room. "
To my knowledge, the last expansion pack "Cataclysm" actually pits Alliance and Horde against eachother is a more opened/hot war than any other time in the game of WoW. I do not want to derail this into a WoW Lore debate. But simply look it up for yourself and see what's happening there for yourself. Both factions there are openly fighting eachother for more territory control. Some parts of the map have actually changed hands in Azeroth and there is active combat....
So, why not in STO? Let the war go on.... it's fun game play wise...
Except that they're working on Joint STF's.
While Territory Control PVP is good, the PVP crowd isn't the one clamoring for more content Klink Side. It's the PVE crowd. And you can ~still~ have tensions and even violent outbreaks without having to have an open state of war.
We're in an open state of war but we suspend operations to join up against the Borg, and to "compete" to win the favor of the Defari? Men and Women are giving their lives on the front lines every day, but we send our best and brightest off to fight like brothers with the Klingons agianst the Borg?
I think, personally, it makes more sense to have the war end, and let "rogue factions" be the problem. For Territory control they can spin it a bit like the Defari now where we're competing over a third party to have it be a war by proxy that some of us get caught up in. I find that more palatable then the general casualness of the "open war" we have now. Really in a state of war everytime we see an enemy vessel within a few light years we should be going to Red Alert. While I can't overly recommend Pirates as a serious naval movie, the most recent was pretty telling:
A Spanish ship shows up on the open seas near a British flagged ship. What's the first thing that happens? General Quarters, guns at the ready, musketeers to the tops, and every man ready. Not a "let's just see what they do...." ~That~ is what open war means.
Open War means that when you see a shadow move you call out Thunder and if you don't hear Flash back you shoot and you shoot to kill.
Open War means that every resource you have is dedicated to crushing your enemy's ability to wage war and to force a peace.
Ya ask me we ain't in an open war now between the Feds and the Klingons. Might as well call it what it is and open up the PVE content to thems that wants it.
WotLK set this up as a storyline but it's not really something that Cataclysm delivered on. Basically, there are just a couple more battlegrounds and more NPCs of the opposite faction to fight in quests. All of the instances still center on the idea of truces and struggling for teamwork.
The big difference is that playerkilling outside the battlegrounds no longer makes you a criminal from a lore standpoint and the factions are chest-thumping more now.
IMHO, you can't have completely effective multifaction play unless other players are the core enemy of the game. Otherwise, it's really just a light story motif that acts as a backdrop for PvP.
Although... I would be very intrigued by the idea of a game where you have multiple friendly but competing factions.
For example:
If the feds and Klingons were not at war but could duel/skirmish and the primary competition was not direct opposition but things like economy and resource grabs where you race against a mutual enemy.
In general, I always liked PvE kill-racing PvP best.
To spice it up, combine Fed and KDF for STF's but allow "friendly fire" you have to work together for the common goal, but if things get too heated, the mission is compromised and you blow the heck out of each other. I'm all for chaos.
While the new expansion has created some Territory Control PVP zones, overall the content is blended. Throughout WotLK we had Dalaran a shared city for both factions and in Outlands both factions shared Shatrath city. In fact, they all had more or less the same content between them in both expansions, trying to win the favor of a third party.
Even in Cataclysm as they release more content patches they are releasing single raids that are do-able by ~BOTH~ factions. In 4.2 they are planning another city/ quest hub that will be highly instanced (gag) but will be open to both factions and both factions will share more or less the same quest lines.
In short while it's good to have some differences (for example I don't think the KDF should ever get diplomacy and the Feds shouldn't get raiding sorties), the bottom line is that you stretch your content creation dollar farther if every bit of PVE content is open to BOTH factions.
As far as cross faction teaming, I know it will be coming, so there is little for me to even try to oppose it. I do not agree with it myself but oh well... About Battle Group Omega, it's more like a fragile cease fire agreement between both faction to face the same enemy. Again, common foes does not make enemies allies again. Both simply decided to turn the barrel of their guns to the same direction (Borg) while still having an eye on the neighboring fleet. Even the NPC that greets you there tells you to be careful of the Klingon (if you play Fed side of course).
Again, for me, I am in favor to keep two warring factions. This does not clash with the development of common STFs or even FEs since these generally put common foes on the stage.
they'd be surprised that Iconians has Been Planning A War Against Mighty Superpowers of Alpha Quadront
In Order to Cripple The Mighty Superpowers by turning them against each other.
Klingon Empire Sends Worf to Starfleet Command to Appeal for Help to fight Against Iconians
as well Federation Asks Undine Empire to reconsider and look into what happened too.
Once they find out and combine their Resources into looking for Answers etc and find out that they been duped by Iconians that started this War, and Federation, Klingon Empire, Undine Empire combine together and Fight against this New and Massive Deadly Enemy, just like in Mass Effect 3 where Entire Races in Galaxy Come Together to Fight Reapers.
get what i meant?
we gotta work together to Defeat Iconians
There would still be regions in space where conflict erupts - there could be an entire Sector where neither side is willing to back down, but there could be a formal or informal agreement that this is the only one where fighting continues - that could become our Open PvP Territory Control Zone. Maybe it's Eta Eridani, maybe it's a new Sector Block.
Here is what I see:
The Federation is on the ropes. The Klingon Empire, aligned with the Gorn and Orions are too powerful for the Federation to defeat considering their continuing losses against the Undine, Borg, and now the Iconians. They see the writting on the wall, and they know where this will end.
... So they open up their borders to the Klingon Empire and allow them into their space. They have strict instruction to their captains to not continue hostilities with the Klingon Empire (except for wargames) and to allow them to provide assistance whenever (and where ever) they are so moved. The Federation just hopes and prays this tactic will apeal to the Klingon since of honor and not provoke them to attack the weaker undefended areas of their space.
Why else would they let a hostile enemy into their sectors?
Could it be because they can no longer hold the lines?
That is exactly what I was thinking.
Yes tensions will boil over but we won't have the "Total War" that we're supposed to have now.
I intend to Foundry up a possible end to the war soon.
ORRRRR....
Recognizing that the Empire is nothing but a gaggle of swirling gnats, the Federation ends it's active hunt to maintain boarders. The cost to patrol vast pieces of space against an otherwise ineffectual enemy simply doesn't bear out. So they instruct their captians to be vigiliant but know that there's no reason to be alarmed. The once mighty empire is but a group of fangless P'taks.
It's not so much a peace that's negotiated, it's an acknowledgement that it's a waste of time to hunt them any further. Let them fly through space and toast each other's honor. Even our transports and civil defense are enough to keep them from any real harm.
And the KDF knows it. They won't start a fight becuase they know, deep down, they'll lose. In stead they posture for the honor, they count coup by tagging vessels, but they're not soo foolish as to start a scrap that will only lead to needless death.
Oh... I see.
Can we think of an instance of that happening?
Um, no not really.
Can we think of any time that boarders are opened to prevent the destruction of infrastructure and/or to protect a population?
Absolutely we can!
I'm just saying...
And I say that as both a Fed and KDF player.
From the Fed perspective, the Klingon Empire consists of belligerent bullies bent on conquest and marauding to assert their dominance over the Quadrant. Diplomacy has already failed. The Klingon Empire isn't interested in lasting peace except as a means of lulling the gullable into complacency. They understand only force. Starfleet is the only force capable of stopping them, and stop them we will.
From the KDF perspective, the Federation is nearly as bad as the Romulan Empire. Their "morality" is simply an excuse to interfere with the affairs of the Empire and to turn their backs on any alliance as soon as it suits them to do so. Instead of honest combat, they would cowardly seek to bind our hands with empty words. A pox on the Federation! We fight for the glory of the Empire!