I don't know about how others felt about the MU and pre-order fiasco, but I know that it was a major turn-off for me and at least one of my RL friends. It was at that point that I got fed up with the C-Store and refused to buy anything more, no matter what was put up (and there are still a couple things that I really want but won't get until Cryptic gets their act together). I'll reiterate what I said before: The C-Store isn't a bad concept, but Cryptic has proven many times in the past months that they don't know how to properly run an MT store.
I agree with you. Granted it took another couple of items beyond the uniforms for me to get there. But I got there.
Ok you dont like the C store for X reason. That is cool.
I use the C store to purchase some clothes my wife liked, some character slots for myself, the G(x) (after i did research and already knew by its specs it was not a "IWIN" button, but makes a good looking PVE ship) and that is about it. No desire to by the excel, and after testing the nebula, omg, what a farse that is after testing it along side the retrofit and luna... wont waste my time with it either. It boils down to choice.
Choose to buy or choose not to buy. Still our choice.
Yes EVEN if they offer the uber X item in the mall that folks thinks is the bomb. They're a company, they're TOS and the EULA allow them that flexibility. Just like Blizzard, Sony, Eucom, Atari, Bioware, etc so forth.
Course I monitor the store to make sure if that "uber" game changing item ever did get added that screwed the game over "he with most money wins" yeah i will be the first to say, Cya! and go about my merry way. Again a choice.
honestly looking at the thread i think people are mainly speaking without reading, or reading yet processing only what they want to see. My feelling about the c store if the items are purely cosmetic they can add as much as they want. comet class ship, miranda refit, coni refit. that alows the player to only get the skin with no silly ability i could care less. i would love a refit for the t2 science to use that skin end game was cool little ship.
but if they add abilities like a the voyager armor, then its gotta be obtainable in game. i heard they are working on getting the Ecselcior in the in the ship yard. for emblems like the defiant but they'll hold it on the c-store to obtain as much revenue from it to cover the expences of making it and then some once no body is buying they'll probably release it. that just makes good business get the people that can't wait first.
best way to voice for the c-store is dont use it. unfortuneately people will use it and it remains profitable so it goes no were and the price for ships will always remain high.
if it were me, i would do f2p and all custimization would be through the c-store. when you go up a tier you'd get 1 ship skin, and at tier 2 it would not be the connie lol. thier would be a way to sell c-store points to other players as well.
thier are alot of people that buy videos games and dump a few 100 in a month if there is a way. i knew this guy that joined our corp in eve. he bought his toon through the charector transaction system from me for 5 bill isk. it was a r&d industrial alt the had dread abilities.
how did he get the isk ? buying PLEX and selling them in game. 365 mil per plex 15 usd
he had to buy 14 plex thats 205 usd.
he then boudt a navy mega and then officer mods for it. the ship he fitted was about 1 bill to 2 bill.
he then trained gallante carrier 1 and bought a carrier fully decked out. he couldn't even use the fighters we told him not to bring his stuff to 0.0 cause he'd lose it. he didn't listen we were in an op and we told him to get a through battleship he said ok when we went to move out he started panicing on vent he was being attacked by reds in .4 space on his way down and couldn't jump the gate. we were like why jump the gate if they follow stay clocked we are on the way. here this dude warped to in his damb carrier even after we told him capitals are to big for the op. this dude just didn't listen, well local had 70+ sniper hacks ripping him up. we lol'd cause we had a force of 30 for the patrol and were 14 jums away. i watched him die in an alt we made it within 4 jumps. most of the hacks warped of the gated and docked only about 10 stayed so we hit um fast. we took down the hacks on the gate and got a few mods before the reds were back on the gate. we jumped and got away.
he was ****ed because he though the carrier was the end all i win botton and he spent 150+ in gtc's just to get it. we had explained to him time and again but he never listened EVE wasn't that type of MMO it wasn't pay to win. you can kill a 3 year old toon in a BC with 1 week old in a frig if you know what your doing.
longer story shorter he was ****ed at us cause of the carrier and left our corp then joined goon even though we told him not to. they cynoed him to 0.0 and ransomed his new carrier with the navy mega in it for 2 bill after he paid it they blew him up then podded him. Needless to say that i never seen him logg the toon in lol but it doesn't matter because in the end CCP made roughly 500 off him maybe more. alls i know is in the 2 weeks he was playing he lost the dread which came with the toon only (t2 mods and captial) the 2 officer fitted carriers and a navy mega he bought with gtc.
i lol when i think about it. some gamers just want to take the easy approach.
this game is PVE centric so PAY to WIN is not a factor me. the pvp is queue so i rarely participate. its not exciting for me to play thier is no sence of loss or achievement. if i want to PVP and really PVP i'll play EVE. STO is an excurtion
thier are alot of people that buy videos games and dump a few 100 in a month if there is a way. i knew this guy that joined our corp in eve. he bought his toon through the charector transaction system from me for 5 bill isk. it was a r&d industrial alt the had dread abilities.
how did he get the isk ? buying PLEX and selling them in game. 365 mil per plex 15 usd
he had to buy 14 plex thats 205 usd.
he then boudt a navy mega and then officer mods for it. the ship he fitted was about 1 bill to 2 bill.
he then trained gallante carrier 1 and bought a carrier fully decked out. he couldn't even use the fighters we told him not to bring his stuff to 0.0 cause he'd lose it. he didn't listen we were in an op and we told him to get a through battleship he said ok when we went to move out he started panicing on vent he was being attacked by reds in .4 space on his way down and couldn't jump the gate. we were like why jump the gate if they follow stay clocked we are on the way. here this dude warped to in his damb carrier even after we told him capitals are to big for the op. this dude just didn't listen, well local had 70+ sniper hacks ripping him up. we lol'd cause we had a force of 30 for the patrol and were 14 jums away. i watched him die in an alt we made it within 4 jumps. most of the hacks warped of the gated and docked only about 10 stayed so we hit um fast. we took down the hacks on the gate and got a few mods before the reds were back on the gate. we jumped and got away.
he was ****ed because he though the carrier was the end all i win botton and he spent 150+ in gtc's just to get it. we had explained to him time and again but he never listened EVE wasn't that type of MMO it wasn't pay to win. you can kill a 3 year old toon in a BC with 1 week old in a frig if you know what your doing.
longer story shorter he was ****ed at us cause of the carrier and left our corp then joined goon even though we told him not to. they cynoed him to 0.0 and ransomed his new carrier with the navy mega in it for 2 bill after he paid it they blew him up then podded him. Needless to say that i never seen him logg the toon in lol but it doesn't matter because in the end CCP made roughly 500 off him maybe more. alls i know is in the 2 weeks he was playing he lost the dread which came with the toon only (t2 mods and captial) the 2 officer fitted carriers and a navy mega he bought with gtc.
i lol when i think about it. some gamers just want to take the easy approach.
I have no idea what any of this means. PLEX, navy mega, gtc's, I mean; I tried to look past the poor punctuation to decipher said contents and the mental computer came back with WTF??? Perhaps standard English grammar and punctuation should accompany analogous information pertaining to other games. If it means you shouldn't be able to buy pre-leveled characters from the c-store, I agree. Otherwise you lost me in the abyss of text.
Have any of you people hating on the C-Store ever been to California? Your precious $25 purchase in the C-Store barely covers lunch.
I heard someone say he would 'start a riot' if they put the Red Matter Capacitor in the C-Store because he spent $80....SIX MONTHS AGO :eek: If you drop the cost of a dinner for two (going easy on the drinks of course) on a video game half a year ago and then have the nerve to log in and rage about how much you've invested in STO and how nobody else should be as special as you, something is seriously wrong with both your self-esteem and financial perspective.
Check the signature!
Actually, I just came from Los Angeles and tbh I find the cost of lunch in Boston to be more.
BUT more to the point, the way I see it: Cryptic wants more money, More money from lifers, more money per month from Monthlies. They are a company, profits are the bottom line, Are subscriptions up?
They are walking a line because they have to keep both parties interested in buying the new "products". They know we get bored easily playing our dallies day, after day, after day, in between new content releases, in the "same old ships". They know we prefer Iconic Trek ships.
They learned this lesson very well with the Galaxy X fiasco. That ship was the most costly C store
offering to date, but I believe that it opened a lot of eyes in their marketing department. It made them realize just how much 'some' players would pay for iconic ship designs. This is STAR TREK online after all and Trekkies LOVE their favorite ships.
Understand, that before the Galaxy X, there were only Cryptic design "skins" being offered in the C store. And for what, 260 cryptic points max, (Imperial)?
Yes, they know we're clamoring for iconic ships. But they also knew in this economy, there might be those who just might not buy, just for an iconic design alone and the Galaxy X showed them just how much some of us would pay for ships, so they added unique abilities to actual ships to ramp up the lure. (and the C point cost?)
And maybe, just maybe, just a bit of a tactical edge to seal the deal. (?) Now the C store is selling ships.... No more skins.
(Is it by accident that the retrofit Exploration cruiser turns into an escort/cruiser hybrid on steriods when it looses the saucer? And hasn't it been rated as the #1 cruiser to have in PVP?, or how's about a science ship that can tank? How useful is that?!)
Sure you get a ship for free when you hit VA, but understand, we get bored easily and we crave new, fun items, more and more, and they knew we wouldn't be able to eat just one .
And good news ! you can purchase a respect in the C store to get the most out of these new retro ships too! Since they require their own special skills. (And with respects, who says you can't purchase an edge in the C store?!)
We were asking for a way to play our favorites at VA level, so instead of offering a new Memory Alpha ship upgrade crafting tier, (and maybe actually making the game more FUN to play), they heard the "cha ching" real loud and clear and offered the rest in the C store, Wish granted?
Sure these ships were eventually added in game for 500 emblems, so you would have to grind, long and hard to get them. To many, that would be putting a carrot on a stick a mile long.
So the C store offered them the alternative. Happily. And many utilized this easier/quicker alternative, myself included, another valuable lesson learned for the marketing department.
This is a game after all, who wants to work and grind and grind and grind to get emblems? That's NOT fun, besides, we need to get the latest purple gear, gotta gear up, or else loose your combat edge!
No one wants to have inferior gear or ships, now do they?
Then watch out!, here comes the Excelsior! Number one on the list of the ships we wanted added in game, And, it's going directly to the C store, (except the commander version, available for energy credits just like always...toss that bone!)
Her unique ability is transwarp, Perhaps me thinks, not quite the lure to get all to buy. Especially since the quantum slip stream was added. Not to mention that you don't actually have to travel anywhere to join a PVP match AND as a reward for reaching ambassador in the new diplomatic corps, you get transwarp ability to all the star bases in the various sectors anyways.
So it better have some tactical incentive.(remember the Galaxy X?), So ..the ship gets another undisclosed and understated unique ability, a tactical edge over the in game assault cruiser. A completely unique b.o. layout not offered ANYWHERE in game, (on the Fed side).
It was never acknowledged, and to this day hotly debated, but make no mistake, it has the edge, or comes DAMNED close to having one, You have to decide based upon YOUR unique playing style, (there in lies the debate) . Never the less, again, the Excelsior is the # 2 rated cruiser to have in PVP, trailed by the poor assault cruiser (obtainable free in game).....Last? The Galaxy X.
Poor Sovereign, at least that ship can take a beating longer right? But that's balanced. BUT
Would YOU buy a new ship that could JUST take a beating longer? Especially if the assault cruiser
you got for free had a offensive edge? MOST wouldn't. And don't let ANYONE tell you different! Because that's just B.S.
Other wise they'd be selling Excelsior skins for the assault cruiser or whatever, for 260 C points, instead of the whole ship for 1200 C points.
And to me, It's doubtful if anyone would purchase another ship with such a limited tactical edge after the Galaxy X let down in PVP anymore.
The T5 Excelsior doesn't even get offered to the whole emblem system this time. Nope, gotta get it and all it's uniqueness, through the C store EXCLUSIVELY.
Now the Nebula is due to come out.....in the C store......With cloak detection, a tactical advantage in PVP, some might say.
And we hear of a Klingon General Chang bird of prey, that can fire torpedoes while cloaked, is coming soon too. Better get that Nebula now folks! And just what use is this cloak detection ability in PVE?
The point to this rather long and tedious tirade? (and thanks for indulging me), There is an evolution here. Give the players what they want, but now they are gonna pay extra for it.
And the C store is now the place to go to, to get an edge in the PVP arms race.
I ask you:
Why did they change the way ships had always been obtained in the first place?
Why weren't these Iconic ships designs sold as skins for existing tier 5 ships?
Why weren't those special ship abilities made obtainable through normal gameplay character progression like all the other skills and abilities up to this point?
Tactical edge IS for sale. Cloak it with iconic flare, players will argue over the existence of that edge endlessly. But they've changed the game mechanics, changed what is offered in the store, (once they realized that there was GOOD money to be made in selling whole ships with special tactical abilities). And that is where they cross the line, in my opinion.
I have no idea what any of this means. PLEX, navy mega, gtc's, I mean; I tried to look past the poor punctuation to decipher said contents and the mental computer came back with WTF??? Perhaps standard English grammar and punctuation should accompany analogous information pertaining to other games. If it means you shouldn't be able to buy pre-leveled characters from the c-store, I agree. Otherwise you lost me in the abyss of text.
I have no idea what any of this means. PLEX, navy mega, gtc's, I mean; I tried to look past the poor punctuation to decipher said contents and the mental computer came back with WTF??? Perhaps standard English grammar and punctuation should accompany analogous information pertaining to other games. If it means you shouldn't be able to buy pre-leveled characters from the c-store, I agree. Otherwise you lost me in the abyss of text.
He is referring to EVE Online, as with most MMO's it has its own language. Basically he's saying you can buy game time cards for real life cash and then sell them for in-game currency, which will allow you to buy the biggest, shiniest in-game items even if you don't know how to use said items very well.
Look at how many people have left the game because of it.
I can't. I do not have access to the data needed for that.
I can only say that noone i know who has left the game did so because of the c-store.
Actually they left because:
It got stale and boring - lag of content
The whole "untrekness" of the experience that is sto.
Appaled by gameplay.
Outrage over the referral/Galaxy X thing. But they came back when it was available in the c store.
noone left because there wee things in the c-store. Not even when pre order stuff got available. noone cared for that.
I refuse to buy anything up there (that I haven't already purchased before this became an issue for me), despite that some of the stuff up there I really want, because of Cryptic's handling of it.
I salute you for making use of your most powerful tool as a customer: you wallet, and keeping it shut.
Yes, I've used terms like "money grubbing" and "cash grab", but that is the way that a lot of us see it. I also see it as an early indication that the game will go F2P (not necessarily soon, nor should it).
You are ill informed.
A Free 2 play game based on MT's LIVES of grind and the consumption of items that will make a horrible gameplay experoience good., (xp boosters ans all incarnation of speedbumps for the play. up to and including items, weapons etc.)
They key there is that all those items get consumed on use. They have to be bought again and again - good games give the items lifetimes that count down every time you actually play - making it into some sort of "pay per play" subscription where you really only pay for the time you actually spend playing.
"Bad" F2P games will have items that have a set date-do-date lifetime, independent of you actual usage times.
STO is really not geared toward that kind of mechanic. There is no "need" to buy from the c-store and you cant viable remake the game to fit the scheme.
And then you also have the issue of Star Trek being a goddam expensive License.
F2P games can survive because the cost of running them are rather low. You do not have 3 companys involved who ALL want their share.
CBS.
Atari.
Cryptic.
Thats 3 companies who all want money out of this. F2P cannot cover that.
Currently, the c-store is indeed a tool a to sell us more doodads. Its like DLC.
Welcome to the new world. Like it or not, its here to stay. Vote with your wallet.
Go to cinema instead. Or Theater. Go see a game of whatever. Save the money.
But do not come here and doom and gloom all day because seriously we do not give a shiite.
Cryptic is owned by Atari. Cryptic was bought by Atari before this game came out. Cryptic is part of Atari. It's just 2 companies in your list.
It's standard for MMO publishers to take 50-75% of the revenues of a game each month. The remainder is what's left for the producer to keep making the game. So while Atari might own Cryptic as the publisher they take their cut off the top, and then get a share of whatever profits Cryptic might make by the end of the year as well.
I can't. I do not have access to the data needed for that.
I can only say that noone i know who has left the game did so because of the c-store.
Actually they left because:
It got stale and boring - lag of content
The whole "untrekness" of the experience that is sto.
Appaled by gameplay.
Outrage over the referral/Galaxy X thing. But they came back when it was available in the c store.
noone left because there wee things in the c-store. Not even when pre order stuff got available. noone cared for that.
Nobody has access to the data except for Cryptari and they're not spilling the beans. While it's not a big of a reason for people to leave or stop playing, the C-Store can still be a contributing factor. Just because nobody you know has left because of it doesn't mean that there are people who HAVE left based purely on the money store. Neither of us has the raw data to confirm nor deny it.
I salute you for making use of your most powerful tool as a customer: you wallet, and keeping it shut.
As a lifer, the C-Store is the ONLY way for me to vote with my wallet. Maybe if the devs make the game better and more fun to play (for me) I MIGHT open my wallet briefly and buy a couple items as a "good job". Until then, it's staying shut.
You are ill informed.
A Free 2 play game based on MT's LIVES of grind and the consumption of items that will make a horrible gameplay experoience good., (xp boosters ans all incarnation of speedbumps for the play. up to and including items, weapons etc.)
They key there is that all those items get consumed on use. They have to be bought again and again - good games give the items lifetimes that count down every time you actually play - making it into some sort of "pay per play" subscription where you really only pay for the time you actually spend playing.
"Bad" F2P games will have items that have a set date-do-date lifetime, independent of you actual usage times.
STO is really not geared toward that kind of mechanic. There is no "need" to buy from the c-store and you cant viable remake the game to fit the scheme.
And then you also have the issue of Star Trek being a goddam expensive License.
F2P games can survive because the cost of running them are rather low. You do not have 3 companys involved who ALL want their share.
CBS.
Atari.
Cryptic.
Thats 3 companies who all want money out of this. F2P cannot cover that.
Currently, the c-store is indeed a tool a to sell us more doodads. Its like DLC.
Welcome to the new world. Like it or not, its here to stay. Vote with your wallet.
Go to cinema instead. Or Theater. Go see a game of whatever. Save the money.
I agree that STO is in no shape for it to go F2P in any form anytime soon. It just doesn't have the infrastructure as it currently stands. However, going F2P is not the death knell that some people think it would be. Look at how Turbine has been handling their games and tell me it's not a viable alternative to a purely sub-based game. If Cryptic changes their model and adapts the game for a hybrid model, then I could conceivably see it making them MORE money than the subscription-with-mt-store system they currently have in place. It just won't happen for a few years. It took DDO and LOTRO a long time for them to be converted into a F2P hybrid system. If I see it before, say the two year anniversary (at a bare minimum), THEN I'll start to worry.
But do not come here and doom and gloom all day because seriously we do not give a shiite.
I'm NOT crying doom-and-gloom here. I'm actually not against the C-Store as a concept, but rather how Cryptic has been handling it. If they make everything attainable in-game by some means, then I'll shut up...or at least not be as vocal about it. I've gotten over the pre-order mess, the RAF fiasco, and now the test tribbles. It's not as big of a deal for me as it once was, but I'd like to see something given back in return for our support.
There is nothing in the C-Store that is a game changer save for visual appeal. Yes there are items and characters that offer unique buffs and/or bonuses, but nothing "leading edge."
I have yet to say, "My tribble saved the day in that engagement." I have played with and without the bonus items and any advantage they give to gameplay is nigh perceptable.
My wife stopped playing even before I did; and she is relatively easy to entertain.
My wife would kill me if I posted something like this.
well like op im bit ****ed of bout the c store ive startet also with lifetime sub in the hope not to trow any more money in. when c store opend fully i feeled sick like the c store is something you expect in free to play games like navy field. in such games its ok for me to spend money on lil extras like some more xps or a bit better wepon. but not in a full price game i trowed 400 euro in alrdy just to play.
There's content in the C-store? Where are they hiding it? All I see are ships and costumes.
Ships, ship skins, uniforms, Tribbles, and playable races are ALL game content. And although I believe no game content should be in the C-Store unless you can also obtain it by playing the game, the C-Store needs to stay. The more people willing to pay above and beyond the subscription fee the better. It's keep the lights on without me having to spend any of MY money.
Ships, ship skins, uniforms, Tribbles, and playable races are ALL game content. And although I believe no game content should be in the C-Store unless you can also obtain it by playing the game, the C-Store needs to stay. The more people willing to pay above and beyond the subscription fee the better. It's keep the lights on without me having to spend any of MY money.
Agreed in pretty much every respect. Let those buy the content (and, yes, EVERYTHING in the C-Store is content, just of different types) who want it now...and let those EARN the content in-game for those who want to feel the accomplishment. Either way, I see it as a win-win scenario for everyone involved...except for the die-hard C-Store haters, at any rate.
Ships, ship skins, uniforms, Tribbles, and playable races are ALL game content.
I believe that Aris' definition of content in the post was actual crunch. I'll agree that ship classes (e.g. Fed Refits), playable races (due to traits), and maybe maybe tribbles could be considered in the crunch category. But since when do ship skins or uniforms provide any kind of gameplay change? And I don't mean appearance, but something worthwhile like a buff, debuff, ability, stat change, or anything else that may tip the battle in your favour.
But agreed. Keep the C-Store and let those who wanna pay, pay. As long as they're still releasing new missions and what-not under the subscription fee and not as puchasable content, I'm cool.
Cryptic could just as well NOT let anyone get any of those items that were originally exclusives for certain circumstances. Anything that I miss out on, for the example the borg tribbles (Mainly because I like collecting the little furballs), I just waited for them to appear in the C-Store, bought them, bing, bang, boom, I'm a happy camper. But from what I'm seeing, all you who complain about the C-Store just want everything for free, so let me spin this on ya'll, what should someone like me who has no problem paying for something I want be punished with closing the C-Store because you want something for free?
A Targ breeding feature would be a more appropriate idea than allowing Klingons to have tribbles. There should be Targ of Borg, Fluidic Space Targ, Chilled Targ, Photonic Targ, and others.
A Targ of Borg would be exceedingly wonderful and a Cryo Targ would be, dare I say, 'cool'?
As a lifer who has been playing since the closed beta, I say keep the C-Store. If something is avalible for purchase, then I will def buy it. I am hoping that you can purchase more stuff on the c-store. Like weapons, shields and engines. I would def pay more money for that...
Opposing view: Keep C-Store, add in-game methods of obtaining all items which properly reflects a level of difficulty appropriate to keep the items relatively rare. NOTE: I believe there are in-game ways to obtain everything but the costume/ship costume/bridges at this point. This includes the referral system.
The c-store isn't going anywhere regardless of anything we say for or against. They didnt get rid of it in city of heroes, they haven't gotten rid of it in champions online and they won't get rid of it in STO.
I think the best we can do is make sure they stick to their original promise with the c-store, anything that can be advantageous should have an ingame way of acquiring it.
The c-store isn't going anywhere regardless of anything we say for or against. They didnt get rid of it in city of heroes, they haven't gotten rid of it in champions online and they won't get rid of it in STO.
I think the best we can do is make sure they stick to their original promise with the c-store, anything that can be advantageous should have an ingame way of acquiring it.
i agree with you, there s nothing we can do about the C store...just hoping we can one day have access to all its contents via in-game currency.
However i would not hold my breath...lately they make some strong statement about the C store and the game in general...meaning they have the right to change any policy and we should not hold on what has been said in the past but rather look ahead.
Over the last few months C store items had different way to be obtained... C store only, C store or 5 sub, C store or 500 emblems, C store T5 and in game currency T3 etc... it looks like they are testing various way of marketing them or just using the most profitable way depending of its potential.
For example if the Nebula was sold like the Excelsior is now(T3 in game and T5 c store) and if the Excelsior was sold the way the Nebula is going to be(T3 and T5 with in game currency) they would probably make less money.
Mr Stahl made a very good statement the other day saying that he has sales goals...so i guess if he can t make them with subs he has to find other ways.
Cause klinks might as well not exist right now. They have no content.
As for C store. C store isn't hurting this game. Actually I've seen -more- players during the week even than I have in a long time. Mostly because of the increased content, and weekly episodes.
What was hurting the game was the lack of content. (and that is what is STILL hurting the klingon faction)
The Cstore though is a good thing in an MMO. (not so much for non mmos... looking at you Team Fortress!) Especially in this one. The Cstore primarily offers -nifty- stuff. And alot of it was stuff you could get by Tribble weekends, preorders etc.
Actually everything save for the Excels, is something you could get through doing something else in STO. Be it Tribble, or a preorder, or Referral.
And the Excelsior, yeah that should be a non cstore item. But it's not > everything else. There's no real advantage of the Excels.
People forget that because of the c-store we also have certain free things in the game. Look at the BOs. Because Tellarites, Klingons, Ferengi, Rigelians, and other species have been modeled for character play we have them as random BOs too. The work woudn't have been put into it at the same pace if Cryptic weren't gettting paid for it. It's the same with the ship skins and now seeing all those new ships in missions rather then the stock ships that were used for so long. Those paying for c-store items are helping the game progress.
Comments
I agree with you. Granted it took another couple of items beyond the uniforms for me to get there. But I got there.
I use the C store to purchase some clothes my wife liked, some character slots for myself, the G(x) (after i did research and already knew by its specs it was not a "IWIN" button, but makes a good looking PVE ship) and that is about it. No desire to by the excel, and after testing the nebula, omg, what a farse that is after testing it along side the retrofit and luna... wont waste my time with it either. It boils down to choice.
Choose to buy or choose not to buy. Still our choice.
Yes EVEN if they offer the uber X item in the mall that folks thinks is the bomb. They're a company, they're TOS and the EULA allow them that flexibility. Just like Blizzard, Sony, Eucom, Atari, Bioware, etc so forth.
Course I monitor the store to make sure if that "uber" game changing item ever did get added that screwed the game over "he with most money wins" yeah i will be the first to say, Cya! and go about my merry way. Again a choice.
but if they add abilities like a the voyager armor, then its gotta be obtainable in game. i heard they are working on getting the Ecselcior in the in the ship yard. for emblems like the defiant but they'll hold it on the c-store to obtain as much revenue from it to cover the expences of making it and then some once no body is buying they'll probably release it. that just makes good business get the people that can't wait first.
best way to voice for the c-store is dont use it. unfortuneately people will use it and it remains profitable so it goes no were and the price for ships will always remain high.
if it were me, i would do f2p and all custimization would be through the c-store. when you go up a tier you'd get 1 ship skin, and at tier 2 it would not be the connie lol. thier would be a way to sell c-store points to other players as well.
thier are alot of people that buy videos games and dump a few 100 in a month if there is a way. i knew this guy that joined our corp in eve. he bought his toon through the charector transaction system from me for 5 bill isk. it was a r&d industrial alt the had dread abilities.
how did he get the isk ? buying PLEX and selling them in game. 365 mil per plex 15 usd
he had to buy 14 plex thats 205 usd.
he then boudt a navy mega and then officer mods for it. the ship he fitted was about 1 bill to 2 bill.
he then trained gallante carrier 1 and bought a carrier fully decked out. he couldn't even use the fighters we told him not to bring his stuff to 0.0 cause he'd lose it. he didn't listen we were in an op and we told him to get a through battleship he said ok when we went to move out he started panicing on vent he was being attacked by reds in .4 space on his way down and couldn't jump the gate. we were like why jump the gate if they follow stay clocked we are on the way. here this dude warped to in his damb carrier even after we told him capitals are to big for the op. this dude just didn't listen, well local had 70+ sniper hacks ripping him up. we lol'd cause we had a force of 30 for the patrol and were 14 jums away. i watched him die in an alt we made it within 4 jumps. most of the hacks warped of the gated and docked only about 10 stayed so we hit um fast. we took down the hacks on the gate and got a few mods before the reds were back on the gate. we jumped and got away.
he was ****ed because he though the carrier was the end all i win botton and he spent 150+ in gtc's just to get it. we had explained to him time and again but he never listened EVE wasn't that type of MMO it wasn't pay to win. you can kill a 3 year old toon in a BC with 1 week old in a frig if you know what your doing.
longer story shorter he was ****ed at us cause of the carrier and left our corp then joined goon even though we told him not to. they cynoed him to 0.0 and ransomed his new carrier with the navy mega in it for 2 bill after he paid it they blew him up then podded him. Needless to say that i never seen him logg the toon in lol but it doesn't matter because in the end CCP made roughly 500 off him maybe more. alls i know is in the 2 weeks he was playing he lost the dread which came with the toon only (t2 mods and captial) the 2 officer fitted carriers and a navy mega he bought with gtc.
i lol when i think about it. some gamers just want to take the easy approach.
this game is PVE centric so PAY to WIN is not a factor me. the pvp is queue so i rarely participate. its not exciting for me to play thier is no sence of loss or achievement. if i want to PVP and really PVP i'll play EVE. STO is an excurtion
I have no idea what any of this means. PLEX, navy mega, gtc's, I mean; I tried to look past the poor punctuation to decipher said contents and the mental computer came back with WTF??? Perhaps standard English grammar and punctuation should accompany analogous information pertaining to other games. If it means you shouldn't be able to buy pre-leveled characters from the c-store, I agree. Otherwise you lost me in the abyss of text.
i can understand this feeling.
I look at it and simple twist my lips and say to myself,... Things that make you go hmmmmm.... (meaning at the C store)
Actually, I just came from Los Angeles and tbh I find the cost of lunch in Boston to be more.
BUT more to the point, the way I see it: Cryptic wants more money, More money from lifers, more money per month from Monthlies. They are a company, profits are the bottom line, Are subscriptions up?
They are walking a line because they have to keep both parties interested in buying the new "products". They know we get bored easily playing our dallies day, after day, after day, in between new content releases, in the "same old ships". They know we prefer Iconic Trek ships.
They learned this lesson very well with the Galaxy X fiasco. That ship was the most costly C store
offering to date, but I believe that it opened a lot of eyes in their marketing department. It made them realize just how much 'some' players would pay for iconic ship designs. This is STAR TREK online after all and Trekkies LOVE their favorite ships.
Understand, that before the Galaxy X, there were only Cryptic design "skins" being offered in the C store. And for what, 260 cryptic points max, (Imperial)?
Yes, they know we're clamoring for iconic ships. But they also knew in this economy, there might be those who just might not buy, just for an iconic design alone and the Galaxy X showed them just how much some of us would pay for ships, so they added unique abilities to actual ships to ramp up the lure. (and the C point cost?)
And maybe, just maybe, just a bit of a tactical edge to seal the deal. (?) Now the C store is selling ships.... No more skins.
(Is it by accident that the retrofit Exploration cruiser turns into an escort/cruiser hybrid on steriods when it looses the saucer? And hasn't it been rated as the #1 cruiser to have in PVP?, or how's about a science ship that can tank? How useful is that?!)
Sure you get a ship for free when you hit VA, but understand, we get bored easily and we crave new, fun items, more and more, and they knew we wouldn't be able to eat just one
And good news ! you can purchase a respect in the C store to get the most out of these new retro ships too! Since they require their own special skills. (And with respects, who says you can't purchase an edge in the C store?!)
We were asking for a way to play our favorites at VA level, so instead of offering a new Memory Alpha ship upgrade crafting tier, (and maybe actually making the game more FUN to play), they heard the "cha ching" real loud and clear and offered the rest in the C store, Wish granted?
Sure these ships were eventually added in game for 500 emblems, so you would have to grind, long and hard to get them. To many, that would be putting a carrot on a stick a mile long.
So the C store offered them the alternative. Happily. And many utilized this easier/quicker alternative, myself included, another valuable lesson learned for the marketing department.
This is a game after all, who wants to work and grind and grind and grind to get emblems? That's NOT fun, besides, we need to get the latest purple gear, gotta gear up, or else loose your combat edge!
No one wants to have inferior gear or ships, now do they?
Then watch out!, here comes the Excelsior! Number one on the list of the ships we wanted added in game, And, it's going directly to the C store, (except the commander version, available for energy credits just like always...toss that bone!)
Her unique ability is transwarp, Perhaps me thinks, not quite the lure to get all to buy. Especially since the quantum slip stream was added. Not to mention that you don't actually have to travel anywhere to join a PVP match AND as a reward for reaching ambassador in the new diplomatic corps, you get transwarp ability to all the star bases in the various sectors anyways.
So it better have some tactical incentive.(remember the Galaxy X?), So ..the ship gets another undisclosed and understated unique ability, a tactical edge over the in game assault cruiser. A completely unique b.o. layout not offered ANYWHERE in game, (on the Fed side).
It was never acknowledged, and to this day hotly debated, but make no mistake, it has the edge, or comes DAMNED close to having one, You have to decide based upon YOUR unique playing style, (there in lies the debate) . Never the less, again, the Excelsior is the # 2 rated cruiser to have in PVP, trailed by the poor assault cruiser (obtainable free in game).....Last? The Galaxy X.
Poor Sovereign, at least that ship can take a beating longer right? But that's balanced. BUT
Would YOU buy a new ship that could JUST take a beating longer? Especially if the assault cruiser
you got for free had a offensive edge? MOST wouldn't. And don't let ANYONE tell you different! Because that's just B.S.
Other wise they'd be selling Excelsior skins for the assault cruiser or whatever, for 260 C points, instead of the whole ship for 1200 C points.
And to me, It's doubtful if anyone would purchase another ship with such a limited tactical edge after the Galaxy X let down in PVP anymore.
The T5 Excelsior doesn't even get offered to the whole emblem system this time. Nope, gotta get it and all it's uniqueness, through the C store EXCLUSIVELY.
Now the Nebula is due to come out.....in the C store......With cloak detection, a tactical advantage in PVP, some might say.
And we hear of a Klingon General Chang bird of prey, that can fire torpedoes while cloaked, is coming soon too. Better get that Nebula now folks! And just what use is this cloak detection ability in PVE?
The point to this rather long and tedious tirade? (and thanks for indulging me), There is an evolution here. Give the players what they want, but now they are gonna pay extra for it.
And the C store is now the place to go to, to get an edge in the PVP arms race.
I ask you:
Why did they change the way ships had always been obtained in the first place?
Why weren't these Iconic ships designs sold as skins for existing tier 5 ships?
Why weren't those special ship abilities made obtainable through normal gameplay character progression like all the other skills and abilities up to this point?
Tactical edge IS for sale. Cloak it with iconic flare, players will argue over the existence of that edge endlessly. But they've changed the game mechanics, changed what is offered in the store, (once they realized that there was GOOD money to be made in selling whole ships with special tactical abilities). And that is where they cross the line, in my opinion.
War IS good for business !
LOL you made me giggle
He is referring to EVE Online, as with most MMO's it has its own language. Basically he's saying you can buy game time cards for real life cash and then sell them for in-game currency, which will allow you to buy the biggest, shiniest in-game items even if you don't know how to use said items very well.
M-I-Z!
I can't. I do not have access to the data needed for that.
I can only say that noone i know who has left the game did so because of the c-store.
Actually they left because:
It got stale and boring - lag of content
The whole "untrekness" of the experience that is sto.
Appaled by gameplay.
Outrage over the referral/Galaxy X thing. But they came back when it was available in the c store.
noone left because there wee things in the c-store. Not even when pre order stuff got available. noone cared for that.
says you.
I salute you for making use of your most powerful tool as a customer: you wallet, and keeping it shut.
You are ill informed.
A Free 2 play game based on MT's LIVES of grind and the consumption of items that will make a horrible gameplay experoience good., (xp boosters ans all incarnation of speedbumps for the play. up to and including items, weapons etc.)
They key there is that all those items get consumed on use. They have to be bought again and again - good games give the items lifetimes that count down every time you actually play - making it into some sort of "pay per play" subscription where you really only pay for the time you actually spend playing.
"Bad" F2P games will have items that have a set date-do-date lifetime, independent of you actual usage times.
STO is really not geared toward that kind of mechanic. There is no "need" to buy from the c-store and you cant viable remake the game to fit the scheme.
And then you also have the issue of Star Trek being a goddam expensive License.
F2P games can survive because the cost of running them are rather low. You do not have 3 companys involved who ALL want their share.
CBS.
Atari.
Cryptic.
Thats 3 companies who all want money out of this. F2P cannot cover that.
Currently, the c-store is indeed a tool a to sell us more doodads. Its like DLC.
Welcome to the new world. Like it or not, its here to stay. Vote with your wallet.
Go to cinema instead. Or Theater. Go see a game of whatever. Save the money.
But do not come here and doom and gloom all day because seriously we do not give a shiite.
Cryptic is owned by Atari. Cryptic was bought by Atari before this game came out. Cryptic is part of Atari. It's just 2 companies in your list.
Nobody has access to the data except for Cryptari and they're not spilling the beans. While it's not a big of a reason for people to leave or stop playing, the C-Store can still be a contributing factor. Just because nobody you know has left because of it doesn't mean that there are people who HAVE left based purely on the money store. Neither of us has the raw data to confirm nor deny it.
As a lifer, the C-Store is the ONLY way for me to vote with my wallet. Maybe if the devs make the game better and more fun to play (for me) I MIGHT open my wallet briefly and buy a couple items as a "good job". Until then, it's staying shut.
I agree that STO is in no shape for it to go F2P in any form anytime soon. It just doesn't have the infrastructure as it currently stands. However, going F2P is not the death knell that some people think it would be. Look at how Turbine has been handling their games and tell me it's not a viable alternative to a purely sub-based game. If Cryptic changes their model and adapts the game for a hybrid model, then I could conceivably see it making them MORE money than the subscription-with-mt-store system they currently have in place. It just won't happen for a few years. It took DDO and LOTRO a long time for them to be converted into a F2P hybrid system. If I see it before, say the two year anniversary (at a bare minimum), THEN I'll start to worry.
I'm NOT crying doom-and-gloom here. I'm actually not against the C-Store as a concept, but rather how Cryptic has been handling it. If they make everything attainable in-game by some means, then I'll shut up...or at least not be as vocal about it. I've gotten over the pre-order mess, the RAF fiasco, and now the test tribbles. It's not as big of a deal for me as it once was, but I'd like to see something given back in return for our support.
I have yet to say, "My tribble saved the day in that engagement." I have played with and without the bonus items and any advantage they give to gameplay is nigh perceptable.
My wife would kill me if I posted something like this.
Ships, ship skins, uniforms, Tribbles, and playable races are ALL game content. And although I believe no game content should be in the C-Store unless you can also obtain it by playing the game, the C-Store needs to stay. The more people willing to pay above and beyond the subscription fee the better. It's keep the lights on without me having to spend any of MY money.
Agreed in pretty much every respect. Let those buy the content (and, yes, EVERYTHING in the C-Store is content, just of different types) who want it now...and let those EARN the content in-game for those who want to feel the accomplishment. Either way, I see it as a win-win scenario for everyone involved...except for the die-hard C-Store haters, at any rate.
I believe that Aris' definition of content in the post was actual crunch. I'll agree that ship classes (e.g. Fed Refits), playable races (due to traits), and maybe maybe tribbles could be considered in the crunch category. But since when do ship skins or uniforms provide any kind of gameplay change? And I don't mean appearance, but something worthwhile like a buff, debuff, ability, stat change, or anything else that may tip the battle in your favour.
But agreed. Keep the C-Store and let those who wanna pay, pay. As long as they're still releasing new missions and what-not under the subscription fee and not as puchasable content, I'm cool.
:cool:
A Targ of Borg would be exceedingly wonderful and a Cryo Targ would be, dare I say, 'cool'?
I think the best we can do is make sure they stick to their original promise with the c-store, anything that can be advantageous should have an ingame way of acquiring it.
i agree with you, there s nothing we can do about the C store...just hoping we can one day have access to all its contents via in-game currency.
However i would not hold my breath...lately they make some strong statement about the C store and the game in general...meaning they have the right to change any policy and we should not hold on what has been said in the past but rather look ahead.
Over the last few months C store items had different way to be obtained... C store only, C store or 5 sub, C store or 500 emblems, C store T5 and in game currency T3 etc... it looks like they are testing various way of marketing them or just using the most profitable way depending of its potential.
For example if the Nebula was sold like the Excelsior is now(T3 in game and T5 c store) and if the Excelsior was sold the way the Nebula is going to be(T3 and T5 with in game currency) they would probably make less money.
Mr Stahl made a very good statement the other day saying that he has sales goals...so i guess if he can t make them with subs he has to find other ways.
Fvk not so much know why?
Cause klinks might as well not exist right now. They have no content.
As for C store. C store isn't hurting this game. Actually I've seen -more- players during the week even than I have in a long time. Mostly because of the increased content, and weekly episodes.
What was hurting the game was the lack of content. (and that is what is STILL hurting the klingon faction)
The Cstore though is a good thing in an MMO. (not so much for non mmos... looking at you Team Fortress!) Especially in this one. The Cstore primarily offers -nifty- stuff. And alot of it was stuff you could get by Tribble weekends, preorders etc.
Actually everything save for the Excels, is something you could get through doing something else in STO. Be it Tribble, or a preorder, or Referral.
And the Excelsior, yeah that should be a non cstore item. But it's not > everything else. There's no real advantage of the Excels.