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Just the other day I was asked by a group of friends, which I have been gaming online with for many years now, whether or not STO was worth playing. At that point I had to think about it a few minutes at which point I told them no. A bit concerning as a subscriber.
I asked myself why would I say such a thing. After a bit of self analysis I came to the conclusion that the state of the game is heading in the wrong direction. I cannot consciously recommend an MMO which requires you to dig into your wallet to acquire ingame items beyond vanity. Most successful MMORPGs pride themselves on an online persistant world which gives the gamer a sense of accomplishment for time spent ingame. The C-Store does not fulfill that niche in the slightest bit. My understanding of the C-Store when I purchased my lifetime sub was that it was going to be used to sell non game changing things like cosmetic items and account services etc. As a gamer, with a pretty good understanding of the game, I can safely say this is not so.
Instead of seeing the big picture here, it really seems you (Cryptic) are milking the few gamers, who play and utilize the C-Store, as a viable model for future income as opposed to building that great online persistant world which brings in subscriptions. I hesistate using the word "few" to describe the C-Store purchasers but let's face it, in the grand scheme of MMORPGers they really are a minicule few. I do have to give them credit as they are the vocal majority on the forums from which you get your feedback.
In my opinion as a MMORPGer, what would generate more subscriptions is having a game to log into which lets gamers set a goal, short or longterm, and let the gamer have at it. This is done through rewarding content whether it be through pvp with a reason (crosses fingers for territorial pvp), endgame or just some simple quest to get a new shirt or crazy looking weapon. These sorts of things also spur community between players. "Hey, where'd you get that spiffy hat?", "I did the quest chain starting over there on Starbase One." Instead we don't even have to ask. Instead we know it came from the C-Store which took no ingame time to acquire.
The direction your C-Store is heading makes this impossible. Where is the reward? Where do we spend our time ingame? "Hey look at that guy in the new awesome ship! Did he just do some new STF ingame?" Nope, he bought it on the C-Store. Instead we are rewarded with our real world wallets. This is not the way most MMORPGers work. The ones that utilize the C-Store are what you might call "gold buyers" in other games. Buyers of items ingame which affect gameplay with real money. I am not saying this is wrong. To each his own i say. But please don't cater to that sort of subscriber. It seems on the forums here if the community wants something done in a reasonable amount of time they just say "add it to the C-Store" and it lights a fire under your butts.
Is this really the direction you want to go? Do you want to play with the big boys and make a game which attracts more subscribers? I could spend money on the C-Store but wouldn't you rather have five of my friends or family members subscribing at $15 a month? Who's to say they won't get more new subscribers also? Think of all the content you could provide or ingame hours for the gamer with just the items you have in your C-Store as rewards for STFs, quest chains, token exchanges etc. That is countless hours of time spent ingame to acquire just those items. For those that choose to buy it from the C-Store, let them. For everyone else it would provide the much content and reward we seek from an MMORPG. That adds up to many months of subcriptions and would surely attract new subscribers which in my opinion this game really needs.
Thank you for your time Cryptic. It's still not too late to change direction and build that great sci-fi world set in the Star Trek universe many of us were hoping for.
I asked myself why would I say such a thing. After a bit of self analysis I came to the conclusion that the state of the game is heading in the wrong direction. I cannot consciously recommend an MMO which requires you to dig into your wallet to acquire ingame items beyond vanity. Most successful MMORPGs pride themselves on an online persistant world which gives the gamer a sense of accomplishment for time spent ingame. The C-Store does not fulfill that niche in the slightest bit. My understanding of the C-Store when I purchased my lifetime sub was that it was going to be used to sell non game changing things like cosmetic items and account services etc. As a gamer, with a pretty good understanding of the game, I can safely say this is not so.
Instead of seeing the big picture here, it really seems you (Cryptic) are milking the few gamers, who play and utilize the C-Store, as a viable model for future income as opposed to building that great online persistant world which brings in subscriptions. I hesistate using the word "few" to describe the C-Store purchasers but let's face it, in the grand scheme of MMORPGers they really are a minicule few. I do have to give them credit as they are the vocal majority on the forums from which you get your feedback.
In my opinion as a MMORPGer, what would generate more subscriptions is having a game to log into which lets gamers set a goal, short or longterm, and let the gamer have at it. This is done through rewarding content whether it be through pvp with a reason (crosses fingers for territorial pvp), endgame or just some simple quest to get a new shirt or crazy looking weapon. These sorts of things also spur community between players. "Hey, where'd you get that spiffy hat?", "I did the quest chain starting over there on Starbase One." Instead we don't even have to ask. Instead we know it came from the C-Store which took no ingame time to acquire.
The direction your C-Store is heading makes this impossible. Where is the reward? Where do we spend our time ingame? "Hey look at that guy in the new awesome ship! Did he just do some new STF ingame?" Nope, he bought it on the C-Store. Instead we are rewarded with our real world wallets. This is not the way most MMORPGers work. The ones that utilize the C-Store are what you might call "gold buyers" in other games. Buyers of items ingame which affect gameplay with real money. I am not saying this is wrong. To each his own i say. But please don't cater to that sort of subscriber. It seems on the forums here if the community wants something done in a reasonable amount of time they just say "add it to the C-Store" and it lights a fire under your butts.
Is this really the direction you want to go? Do you want to play with the big boys and make a game which attracts more subscribers? I could spend money on the C-Store but wouldn't you rather have five of my friends or family members subscribing at $15 a month? Who's to say they won't get more new subscribers also? Think of all the content you could provide or ingame hours for the gamer with just the items you have in your C-Store as rewards for STFs, quest chains, token exchanges etc. That is countless hours of time spent ingame to acquire just those items. For those that choose to buy it from the C-Store, let them. For everyone else it would provide the much content and reward we seek from an MMORPG. That adds up to many months of subcriptions and would surely attract new subscribers which in my opinion this game really needs.
Thank you for your time Cryptic. It's still not too late to change direction and build that great sci-fi world set in the Star Trek universe many of us were hoping for.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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if you're really trying to reach the devs on this, you might have more luck with this point of view there.
I always find it amusing when people like you post frivolous nonsense like this about post counts to up their own riculous post counts. I am not sure this post was aimed at you nor should it concern a myopic gamer such as yourself.
When talking to friends about STO I bring up the issue of it's "pay double to play" concept as well, although I do not outright tell people it wouldn't be worth playing.
Personally I am still enjoying myself reasonably well with what can be done ingame. What there is is quite nice, I love flying into battles with my defiant retrofit firing pulse phasers (well, 3x DCs for that matter) and quantum torpedos. It is beautiful to watch (STO does have great gfx after all) and it sure reminds me of the shows.
That however does not last very long and reveals STO's other main shortcoming: it is essentially a single player game with a monthly fee granting people access to an online store. Granted, when looked at what it is: a single player game with some limited multiplayer options, it is a pretty good game.
But yeah, couple the single player focus with the utter lack of massive multiplayer/raid-style content with the c-store mentality- and concept, and you have a game that won't hold people for all that long.
Unfortunately both of these huge downsides will remain and most likely even intensify in the future. Cryptic is dead set on neither increasing group sizes in any way form or shape nor getting rid of STO's extreme-instancing (the entire game and engine is designed around it and they are not willing to change it).
The one thing about STO that will ever be truly massive is the C-Store.
As unpleasant and maybe even dispisable it may be, the c-store focus will remain. The reason is simple: it is a business model that works because way too many (and here I disagree with the OP's assessment of there only being a few) people are forking out cash for anything they find remotely interesting or potentially offering an advantage, without thinking about the value/price ratio they are getting.
This behavior is called (not exactly sure if the translation is 100% correct) price indifference of demand.
For STO and the c-store that means the Star Trek (-Online) fans/gamers don't care what something costs, or what the thing is actually worth, as long as the price is not above a certain threshold. That threshold is roughly at 15$. So these people (and believe me there are a hell of a lot of them) just shell out their cash no matter what.
That is how microtransactions work, and they do work. Cryptic is making a load of money off the people that do not make any value/price comparisons/analyses. The ("sane", or let's better say "the more aware") people may call the whole "pay double to play" concept unacceptable, outrageous or even unethical, but fact is it is legal, it is making money and no sane and competitive company would give up on it as long as people are willing (or should we say "dumb enough") to fall- and pay for it.
One may blame Cryptic for the c-store, in a way I do too, but in the end it is the customer's mentality and resulting buying behavior that is at fault.
Of course the company could decide to "go the right way" by focusing more on accquiring more subscription customers by providing a true Massive MOG with true endgame content, but the c-store version is much less risky for them as it requires a whole lot less development resources.
I completely agree with your OP.
I have turned away all my friends and family from this game as the "double pay" features in this game bother me a lot.
I would really like to see a sense of achievement from STO.. give me something that shows I worked hard in this game not opened my wallet and bought it.
The biggest turn off, I believe, for a new comer to this game is loading it up for the first time and seeing over 200 dollars worth of items in the C-Store... ridiculous.
the only thing the C-Store should sell is account features, respecs, and the occasional cosmetic item.
I have purchased nearly everything in the store to support Cryptic with its development of the game given the massive loss of players and I'm not alone in that thinking from what I can tell but truth be told, my patience and open wallet was wearing extremely thin prior to the change in leadership with STO.
Now with that said, I think making everything in the store available in game, as was promised (not counting the blatant lie of the type of things) when it was announced should be a top priority for the dev team now; if not yesterday! I for one would be far more willing to buy more stuff since I can easily afford it if other players not so fortunate have the chance to earn them.
I often find myself at odds with that same question. I actually have a minor dread of being asked that question. Though I like STO I cannot in good conscious recommend it to another person because it does not fulfill the basic expectations of a subscription based MMORPG. This is , in part, due to the C-store vs. in game acquisition issue you have pointed out.
STO is not set up in such a way to become a F2P and probably never will. I do understand the actual need for some kind of c-store income given the rise in economic demands and the static nature of sub fees. However, the decision to include items in the C-store beyond the cosmetic or frivolous is a bad decision. In doing this you have violated the "verbal ToS" us lifers purchased that lifetime sub under. This is where I bring up the phrase "bad faith business practices" again...
Failure is the opportunity to begin again, more intelligently.
hopefully Cryptic will see the truth in that quote, abolish most of the c-store, fix some bugs, add some content, and see the subscriptions flourish again.
Cryptic is in a vicious circle right now.. less and less subs more C-store to account for lost revenue for the missing subs.
Build it and they will come Cryptic.
There are core issues with the game but instead of addressing them, Cryptic continues to release C-Store items and add an episode or two. None of that helps with the problems listed above.
I've also been asked by friends if the game is 'any good' and 'value for money' and the only truthful, objective answer I could give regarding the C-Store and general cost is that they should think of what they would get in terms of enjoyment and time from a standard, single-player, non-online game. If they think £30ish for @a month's gameplay to be good value for money, then STO - which may arguably contain up to four months or so of content for 'casual' gamers, is on par, if not better value... even including another £30ish for various C-Store items.
This is not to say - at all - that I agree with or am happy with the existence of F2P elements in a subscription game, because I don't and I'm not. Unfortunately, as others have said, it's a business model that's been adopted here and what I think is irrelevant.
Personally, I bought the T5 Excelsior as - for various reasons but primarily for its trekdomnesses - I prefer it to the alternatives. I didn't want to pay for it... but had no choice if that's what I wanted to zip around in every time I logged in... but as I said, over a four-month span the total dosh I spend will be plenty less than I'd pay for four 'normal' games.
To be frank, all of those friends were more concerned with whether the game is 'fun' and has plenty of good trekky content. That's another topic
Agree completely. The things you just mentioned are much much worse than the C-store.
I understand that you may want those items, but you don't need them. The items are completely cosmetic, and just like competing with the neighbors over their newest toy, it is ultimately superfluous. Complain about the fact you don't want to spend money on things you want. But don't sit here and complain that they are needed - because they simply are not.
An interesting argument.
So, according to that statement cryptic could simply put any new STFs, missions, crafting system, whatever, in the c-store. I mean hey, "the game still functions without any" of them. Oh hey while we are at it, make access to the pvp-queues a c-store item aswell, even better: make it a monthly-fee thing in the c-store. I mean come on, you can't complain about that, doing so would just be an argument of "need" vs. "want", after all it is just cosmetics, just like the capabilities of an excelsior (and any future ship/item like it that are in the pipeline), even without pvp you can still play the game just like before: fighting other ships/enemies.
New missions? Hell that is just cosmetics and not "needed" as well. While we are at it, all existing story missions could be made c-store as well. As you said it, as far as the c-store is concerned, anything goes that isn't needed for the game to "function". Missions are just cosmetics pulled over the way you earn skill points etc. The game works just fine if you simply grind DSEs to level up, so missions are optional thus they can go in the c-store!
Oh, oh! Emblems, daily missions and the corresponding item vendors: absolutely no need for those either. Just put a c-store purchasable access membership in place for those who "want" these things. After all anyone can play the game with just looted items or the standard equipment on ships when they are bought.
Normally I would end this kind of post with "there are many more examples, but 'you get the point'" unfortunately I am not all too sure about the last part there here.
I'm sorry but I disagree. Many of the items in your opinion or optional.. but they should have been in the game in the first place. The Excelsior class is a CANON ship and deserved to be there since day one.
"need" is subjective and the issue is no other MMORPG relies so heavily on micro transactions.. if this game was F2P then yes, the micro transactions are warranted.. but games F2P games like DDO even have the ability to get all their microtransaction items through in game ways.. including content drops on bosses or transferring gold to their virtual store currency.
Again, this game is in dire straights and you missed the point of the post completely. The C-Store + sub is a total turn off for people to reccomend this game. Thats the point of it. A new person comes into this game and sees the C-Store and its 200+ dollars worth of stuff.. and says "f that".. regardless if its needed or not.. people see it as a cash grab.
The alternative is get more subs.. which requires an outside the box thinking right now as STO has not performed very well and Cryptic acknowledges it.
Age of Conan suffered from going from 800k box sales to under 100k subs from having a crappy start.. but they pulled themselves together with no microtransactions and is now heralded as a very good MMO.
Well, using that logic I never really 'needed" to get my epic in EQ1. But it was something that I was proud to have earned.
Name me that thing. The thing when you are VA... that you are proud to have worked for and earned in game? Something that others who are unwilling to earn it do not have?
Dunno... I'm not there yet. But if the game up to Commander 7 is any indication, there is no such thing. You level, you get a default ship, you can get the same gear as everyone else on the exchange.
Of course, there's no denying the fact that some are perfectly ok with that. Myself, I'm not used to it for sure. Because that's not the way this genre was built.
My epic weapon in EQ loses just about ALL value were it available for purchase.
Proof that sometimes flybys do happen... It is apparent that you did not understand the points I brought up so I will put it more plainly without mention of the C-Store.
In a game you spend time playing wouldn't it be nice to be rewarded for the time you spend playing? Isn't that what playing MMORPGs is about? Ooo! Look at that! SHINY! What did you do to get that Shiny? Nothing? What fun is that? What did you achieve? Why play 6 months down the road?
Even FPS games realize to keep people playing you need to toss them a bone for actually playing these days. Unlocking weapons, skills etc. They give you a sense of achievement.
Newsflash: you can get the Excelsior in game without the C-store.
Ok.. so I can fly around in T3 with limited transwarp feature.. but if I want T5 with all the bells and whistles.. its 15 bucks.. which is MORE than buying the entire game where I am from.
Micro transactions should not cost more than the damn game itself.. hence the MICRO in its name..
As always, Nagus, you miss the point.
Somedays i'm not sure whether or not you troll, or just don't get it.
where r u from?
Maybe your not aware, but you the entire point of the C-store is to get people to buy things they WANT. As has already been mentioned, you dont NEED anything in it. There are T5 ships in game you can use if you dont want to spend more money than the minimum to play the game.
But if I had a dime for every time someone on MMORPG said they would not play game X because it had no player housing in it I could retire right now.
The reason that example makes absolutely no sense is because the C-store only sells different VERSIONS of what you ALREADY have in game. So if we were talking about player housing in relation to the C-store, then all it would mean is that you might be able to buy a different TYPE of house than the one you ALREADY have in game.
Really? Another Tier one ship other than the connie has an extra BO slot?
Really? Another tier 5 Fed ship has a universal BO slot?
Really, I can obtain extra ship/BO slots elsewhere?
Please.
I'm sorry, but again, like someone else said.. I believe you are a troll.
Why would someone pay monthly.. or in my case, a lifetime subscription to play the MINIMUM requirements for a game.. it makes absolutely no sense. F2P games should be MINIMUM gameplay.. not subscription based games.
No other MMO on the market except Cryptics' games have the "we will give our subscribers the MINIMUM level of content and let them pay for anything else they want".
When you go and buy a car (assuming you are an adult or of age) , do you expect that it meets the MINIMUM on everything ? or do you have an expectation that the manufacturer is providing you with a product that far surpasses the minimum?
Just food for thought.
It appears as if you want to have status - you want to be able to possess things in game that can only be achieved in one way so that you can prove your superiority over others. I can understand how the C-Store would completely infuriate you if that's what you're after.
Personally, knowing someone spent cash on things that could be obtained in the game makes me laugh. Certainly there is no jealousy on my part, because I know, with a little effort, I'm going to have the same thing without paying a dime. To me, that's achievement enough.
You and I are in total agreement that things in game should be worth something. The difference between us, however, is that I'm not threatened by someone with a credit card. To me, once achieved, those things are worth something - because quite frankly - what they mean to me is all that matters.
I can Answer this As for right now NOPE there is not even that in the game....
In the meantime, have a hankie - just 100 CPoints!
you can get the ship in game for free, which is excellent
you can pay money to have the refit if that is your desire, and again i agree with that (remember the funds they raise from c-store sales helps to get us these items quicker. if there was no c-store then you would not see the excelsior at all, at least not for some time).
so that to me is win/win. yes some people want to be able to fly the excelsior for tier 5 for free, but if you want extra you usualy in life have to pay extra. so i have no problem with it.
the problem is that the new ships are coming with cool new features or layouts. whilst not needed to play the game or overpowered in my opinion, they are different and should be able to get that configuration in game.
transwarp to me is fine as its not that game altering. a change in bo consoles or powers (phaser lance) is and i dont agree that those abilities should be available to buy only. i dont believe buying those ships gives you any real edge but if thats how you want to play then you have to pay real money to get it and thats not right.
i believe there should be a way to be able to get these extra abilities in game (say 100 emblems/marks means you can swap you standard assault or star cruiser for the same ship but with the excelsior console config)
and the opposite so you can spend 100 emblems/marks equipping your excelsior with the current assault or star cruiser congs if that is the layout you want.
You either didnt comprehend what I said, or are intentionally trying to take it out of context. Assuming its the first, I'll explain it to you. I didnt say the "minimum level of content", I said "if you dont want to spend more money than the minimum to play the game". I was referring to the "minimum" amount of money you have to spend, not the amount of content.
And even if we were talking about content, Cryptic HAS provided more than the "minimum". For example, the "minimum" would be only ONE ship per tier for each class, however we have 3 variations to choose from. Thats not to say I wouldnt like more, but only to show you that we do in fact have more than the "minimum".