Well, the Pasteur was a medical ship, the Enterprise a dreadnought. And it's funny, because I'm against the Galaxy-X having a cloak. It was explained, that there was no Romulan Empire to speak of left in that timeline and that's why the Federation got the cloak. This doesn't apply here, so I'm against it.
To be fair, I must admit that I had forgotten about the Romulans in that episode (it's been a while since I've seen it).
So what's your problem? Personally I am sure that the Sovereign is the better ship. I'm still planning to get a Galaxy-X. Why? Style. I don't care for the cloak, but I love the look of the Galaxy and want to fly it on T5. (Okay, I'm no PvPer, so I don't affect you anyway.)
What would be so horrible if Federation ships could get a cloak? You say it yourself: It won't make them better in PvP. So as long as Klingon ships and Fed ships are balanced (meaning you get your hull buffed when the feds get cloak.
Alright, as you're not really a PvPer you wouldn't have played any KvK matches. They're a pain in the TRIBBLE, not because they're close matches or anything like that, but because nobody wants to decloak. People just sit there or fly around for 15 minutes looking for the one person who's either a moron or a bait-tank to pounce on. In almost every case those games take a LOT longer than FvK matches.
With that said I'm not that worried about Capture and Hold maps as you actually do have to decloak in order to cap a flag (contrary to the belief of some believe it or not), but with arenas and the few assault missions that we have, it would be a boring abomination. Nobody plays KvK matches at the max rank, and I do mean nobody as the queues almost always are at 0 and if you try to sit and wait for one to go then you'll be waiting most of the day.
It would be the end of any significant amount of PvP in this game if the Federation got cloaking because people would quit out of boredom and frustration over slow games rather than getting killed all the time.
I really should clarify that I'm not against the ship itself, I'm against it's cloak and the potential snowball effect that it will have in terms of Federation cloaking. If you take the cloak off of the AGT-Galaxy then I will shut up and even support it going into the C-Store, but not with it on.
The Romulans are already angry. The whole point of the Romulan story arc for the Feds is to dissuade them from all-out war through force.
Yes I've played it (I have Fed alts ). But the spirit of the Federation is peace, and they will do everything in their power and then some in order to try and maintain it if for no other reason than they wouldn't want a war on two fronts. So why push a delicate situation over the cliff?
Sure Sela might be a little........bent on certain things, but she's not stupid. She'll maintain peace as long as reasonably possible but she knows that the Empire isn't strong enough for full scale war on two fronts either as when they come into the game they'll either be at war with both the Klingons and the Federation or on the edge with both (or a third where it's Romulans and Federation vs. Klingons, in which case they still wouldn't have cloak because the Federation would realize their need of the Romulans as they did in the Dominion war and bend over backwards to make them happy).
OK, now let's assume every Fed uses a Galaxy X?
-> they just lost all Escorts and Science Vessels.
-> they replaced Assault Cruisers with a worse turning Assault Cruiser with only 2 Tac consoles, which has a cloak and some kind of 45° Beam Overload gun.
The only possible problem is - also in regards of a future Romulan faction - the problem well known from Klingon vs Klingon: The losing side cloaks forever.
The way I see it is that Starfleet doesn't have as tight rein on their captains as it used to. A Starfleet captain with a cloak would be crossing the line, but there are more important matters to deal with than a Captain that is breaking a treaty. Besides the Romulans aren't on good diplomatic terms with the Federation and in a serious position to war with the Federation based on Starfleet captains using cloaks.
Now if a science ship could cloak, then I would have a problem since the ability to see cloaked ships while cloaked is a game-breaking exploit.
I don't have a Klingon character and I don't want my Federation ship to have a cloak. Federation ships don't cloak. Apart from turning PvP into an eternal hide-and-seek, it's always to me been a very un-Starfleet thing to do. Klingons cloak, Romulans cloak, Jem'Hadar cloak. The Federation Captains stick to their treaties.
As far as I am concerned Cryptic just took a giant step backwards. Once again we a seeing the absolute sucking up to the predominately Federation players. They want it, they get it. In the beginning it was to be two totally complete factions. Sorry, Klingons will be PvP centric because they are a warrior race and love to fight.
So Cryptic throws in House vs House. However, no personal dueling??? Well stop the presses, the Feds want to fight amongest themselves too. Lets call it War Games taadaa happy feds. Still no crafting of any kind for the Klingons, even though the system has been revamped and theere are episodic missions for the Feds dealing with "gasp" Klingon crafting. The Vo'Quv was supposed to be big and bad...oops the cloak crashes the system. Instead of fixing it, we nerf the cloak and say its to big to cloak..my TRIBBLE. tell that to the Romulans and the D'dedrix class warbird. But the feds say its to powerfull...nerf gun hits it again. Now its a big fat target and a waste of skill points. Wait one, the Feds want a big bad TRIBBLE ship with cloak...ok no problem, coming right up.
Still no crafting for the Klingons, still waiting on episodic missions, still waiting on crafting, I wager the RSE faction get crafting before the Klingons. Still waiting on some additional ship designs..I lost count on how many the feds have. Would love to see the K'Vort class Bird of Prey as a tier 5. I can go on and on, but at this point it's useless. Craig says they are watching and reading the forums, striving to give us players what we are looking for.
I call ******** unless your strictly a federation player. Can't wait to see season 3 and how goofed up the Romulans will be. Hell the Klingons started the war with the Romulans and can't even travel into thier space.
Have to stick to our own little backyard.:rolleyes:
But lets make the feds happy and stroke em with a new ship that has cloak! Kiss my :eek:
I can whole heartly agree to your post Draconianknight, you say what I'm thinking, too.
Cryptic caters to Feds and what the complain about, it's not hard to see their incompetence. :mad:
The Feds already started the discussion about the armor and weapons from Voyager Endgame.
Wouldn't be surprised if they would get it.
How many Federation players are there compared to Klingon players? Star Trek always had a major focus on the Federation. Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, and Dominion were always secondary. Star Trek would be a very boring show if every episode was about exploration and diplomacy. IMO, the Klingons were originally added to add some conflict to Star Trek.
If there is any discrepancy between the Federation and Klingons, then it is due to the devs putting effort towards the majority. After all, The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.
I can whole heartly agree to your post Draconianknight, you say what I'm thinking, too.
Cryptic caters to Feds and what the complain about, it's not hard to see their incompetence. :mad:
The Feds already started the discussion about the armor and weapons from Voyager Endgame.
Wouldn't be surprised if they would get it.
But why should they not? This type of technology was created around the STO timeline.
What shouldn't happen is that it becomes unbalanced and overpowered. (Or that it becomes useless ).
But I don't see this as a "Fed" thing. I see this as a "Startrek fan" thing. Startrek fans are the guys that find Starfleet, Klingons, Borg, Romulans, Warp Engines, Tricorders and Quantum Torpedoes cool. You might have heard of them. They are a strange bunch of people, to be sure...
How many Federation players are there compared to Klingon players? Star Trek always had a major focus on the Federation. Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, and Dominion were always secondary. Star Trek would be a very boring show if every episode was about exploration and diplomacy. IMO, the Klingons were originally added to add some conflict to Star Trek.
If there is any discrepancy between the Federation and Klingons, then it is due to the devs putting effort towards the majority. After all, The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.
Then they should have released the game as "Federation Online", not pretend to say that it is anything but. Now, I'm not completely sold on the whole "Federation says 'Jump' and Cryptic asks 'How high!'" conspiracy theory yet, however, the fact is that the Klingon faction was thrown in haphazardly and very little has been done to fix it.
Personally, I think what happened was that they had every intention to put in a full blown Klingon faction and someone at a higher level said, "Well, they are here to give into this whole PvP facet that people like so do we really need a story? Afterall there is no story to Counterstrike and it's popular. Just throw them in and people will play them as a PvP aspect of the game." As such, they saw anything beyond giving them a PvP angle only as a waste of their time. After all, who wants to play a silly Klingon, right?
However, the fact is that a large number of people want to play Klingons and Romulans and whatever else beyond the Federation. To compare the current numbers of Klingon players vs Federation players is like comparing the current number of Romulan players vs Federation players and saying, "Well, hell, I guess no one wants to play a romulan. look, there aren't anyone playing one in game!" The majority of players don't play Klingons, not because they don't want to, but because they can't. End of story, there is no Klingon game. There is "Fly klingon ships, grind random (and painfully boring) grind missions while waiting for non-existant PvP sessions." or go play a fleshed out and supported Federation game. Obviously very few people will have the patience to do grind missions over the Federation game. I know that I speak from experience there. I would absolutely love to have some true story and immersion on par with the old Academy and such, but it isn't there. So what do I do? I go play my Federation captain till the Klingon side is actually implemented.
Which is why I don't want to see Romulans released like the treatment that Klingons got. If it takes till season 4.0 to get Romulans right (at least as much content as the Federation had at launch), then they should wait till season 4.0. Also, more people would play Klingons if it wasn't almost completely PvP or exploration missions. You are probably right on the Klingons added in for PvP at the last minute.
I find games suffer from trying to balance PvP and PvE. If STO was completely PvE, then we wouldn't see all the changes that Science skills went through. Which is why I would have a PvP and PvE power for each skill if I was given the chance to create my own MMO.
Allowing the Feds to cloak will NOT fix the game, it will not balance the game and it will send Trek Purists into a tizzy. I can only imagine a new player joining the fray only to see Fed boats cloaking and uncloaking all around him and thinking.. I didn't sign up for this. I hope everybody enjoys straight Fed on Fed multiplayer cuz there won't be much of a purpose to play as a different faction once they all do the same thing.
Wanna do something wonderful? Fix the Klingon Content. Make it truly worthwhile to have different factions so that PvP is full of combatants and stop TRIBBLE with the history of the franchise.
Which is what 2.0 plans to do. Apparently there is some more Klingon episodes and noncombat missions for those Federation captains that don't want to fight. Although I doubt there will be the same amount of Klingon episodes as Federation episodes. I am also not sure if you can pick just noncombat missions, but I plan on leveling a character to VA1 without my captain or bridge officers firing a weapon if it is possible besides the tutorial.
Service message to all those who say what Klingon faction is fine and who wants to play it anyway.
First to those that say the Klingon Faction is fine .... level a Klingon to BG 5 then come talk to us other Klingon's. Most Feds who do try to level a klingon have the rose colored glasses come off fairly fast. Make sure you buy each ship to see the many customization options we have too. /Sarc
Second, when I first got Federation / Cruiser Online er.. STO.. I wanted to make / play a Klingon from the Start but was disappointed that i had to UNLOCK it by playing FED first. No one can say how popular the Klingon faction would be if it was Equal to what the Federation side is now. Equal in polish, story line, and function. We can't even dress up our toons properly with out over laping or torn mismatched skins. Play with shoulder pieces and sashes for example. Try to make your kits show.
The only goal I really ever had was to play a Klingon and fly a Bird of Prey. I couldn't even do that because an Alien is a better race pick for PvP then a true Klingon.
Back to the OP Topic.
As far as the Galaxy X goes I really don't care other then I think it will become the griefer ship of choice.
So many Feds / Players are butt hurt over getting PWNED in PvP that they will get a AGT ship and go into matches and just sit some place cloaked. They will do it just like now by going afk but now they have zero risk of seeing their pretty ship all blown up. You already get 1 or 2 afkers each match now as it is.
Unbalanced Q issues will be worse because players will join and then sit cloaked and do nothing. Yes, Klingons could do this now but they have PvP missions that require wins and that's not always the case on the fed side. So any one who actually wants to play to win will have poor game play issues that can't be directly fixed like the poor Q system could be because the issue will be player generated. They could make all rewards earned by WINNING Only but I really can't see that happening without ****ing off the Feddy Bears to no end.
It will be just one more tiny nail in the coffin for this game.
Well, we all know 'exclusive' means exactly nothing in the hands of Cryptic marketing. We've known that for a long time.
I'm actually pleasantly surprised that lip service was paid to the promise not to include anything gameplay-affecting in the C-store without being available in-game, but I'm sure plenty of weasel words will be employed in an effort to keep that particular mechanical configuration unique to the C-store to try and grab more money from it.
just my 2 cents but seriously, it'll be about 60 cents when I'm done.
Klingons were supposed to be a PvP faction but Klingon players demanded PvE content. Ya'll goin on and on about Feddy Bears QQing to get what they want need to remember who they learned it from....
In CO, players wanted a 3rd travel power... (cause apparently 2 wasn't enough) so they gave em one... and a month long process along with it. I'm thinking Cryptic has something similar in the works. They'll put the Galaxy-X in C-Store for alot of points (like the Connie) and to keep the C-Store as fluff or items obtainable in the game, the fed cloak could possibly come with a month long research mission.
You know... Chang had a cloak that let him fire. The 'its canon' argument goes both ways.
Cloaks key off Aux.... I would not be surprised if the cloaking system got an overhaul. Even Kirk figured out how to detect Chang. This might also solve the Cloaked vs Cloaked stalemate.
I fly an Assault Cruiser Fed-Side because its the Feddiest McFederson looking ship in the T5 line (T5 science ships are close). Unlike the 'Where's my lightsaber cup holder' Star Cruiser, which I believe to be a functionally better ship, my Assault Cruiser makes me feel very Trek.
Players fly the Connie and the Galaxy-X because they can... because they look good doin it. Style I think was word someone used.
Technically, My Klingon captain is only Cdr6... I find piloting my K't'inga as enjoyable as my Assault Cruiser. I do not enjoy PvP in my Assault Cruiser. I cant compare the 2 ships because they are different classes... but I am enjoying the K't'inga alot more than I enjoyed my Heavy Cruiser and Exploration Cruiser. And... I like the look of the K't'inga. I dont show my armor or kits so... I hear in season 2 Orion Females get bikinis... All I need is the Hefner bathrobe (idea shamelessy stolen from my fleet admiral).
PvP will always have afk'ers... just remember where they learned to AFK cloak; a bunch of klingons goin on and on about the FedBall.
Klingons were supposed to be a PvP faction but Klingon players demanded PvE content. Ya'll goin on and on about Feddy Bears QQing to get what they want need to remember who they learned it from....
So the problem isn't that the system is broken because Klingon faction have no PvE or that the majority of the support is for the Federation side, it's that we have the audacity to expect the Klingon faction to be equal to the Federation side in content and support? I didn't realize that this game was originally written as a Federation game and we should be appreciative of the scraps that were thrown our way since they really shouldn't have to do that even. I stand corrected then.
Personally, I thought the vision of the Klingon side was that they were put in as a PvP faction because Cryptic could get say they have PvP, without actually incorporating it correcting since that would cost extra time and resources. Now, they didn't understand how to implement it, but like any good marketing tool, they knew it had to be shoehorned in there somehow and this was what we got. Long story short, since they didn't want to do it right, they put it in so Klingon players could be the equivelant of "Player controlled NPC Enemies" providing opposition for Federation players. Basically, we are paying Cryptic to allow us to be the game content for Federation players benefit, not actually here for our enjoyment. Again, I stand corrected.
In CO, players wanted a 3rd travel power... (cause apparently 2 wasn't enough) so they gave em one... and a month long process along with it. I'm thinking Cryptic has something similar in the works. They'll put the Galaxy-X in C-Store for alot of points (like the Connie) and to keep the C-Store as fluff or items obtainable in the game, the fed cloak could possibly come with a month long research mission.
Perhaps so. However, that does not negate the fact that the Federation, from a game design not Star Trek Lore view, should not have cloak. This is not Counterstrike where everyone is the same with only a different skin. There should be different reasons to play each faction.
You know... Chang had a cloak that let him fire. The 'its canon' argument goes both ways.
True, however do you truly believe that Cryptic or their federation player masters would actually allow a klingon ship to fire from cloak?! Is that why you brought this up? To say that the Galaxy X is canon and should be allowed and that Chang is canon and maybe it will be allowed? Perhaps so. Personally, I don't think it will ever happen, but who knows, maybe I'll be surprised.
Unfortunately, even if they do, I'll consider it another mistake. I'm not looking at the decisions from a lore or a "fair" view, but from a business model and game design view. It would rock if the Klingons could fire from cloak. However, it would be unfairly powerful and you don't offset one poor choice with an equally unfairly powerful poor choice for the other side.
Cloaks key off Aux.... I would not be surprised if the cloaking system got an overhaul. Even Kirk figured out how to detect Chang. This might also solve the Cloaked vs Cloaked stalemate.
Possible and probably a good idea. Personally, I think they need to scrap a majority of the game and take alot of it back to the drawing board. This IP deserves a better effort and I honestly would like to see them do better. Surprisingly, I'm still here with the faith and hope that Cryptic will take some of the ideas they see, correct some of the mistakes they've made and actually build the game that most people want to play, not the haphazard game we currently have. I bought the lifetime sub for that reason and hope to see it pan out. If it doesn't, well, I'll chalk it up to a lesson learned and move on.
Technically, My Klingon captain is only Cdr6... I find piloting my K't'inga as enjoyable as my Assault Cruiser. I do not enjoy PvP in my Assault Cruiser. I cant compare the 2 ships because they are different classes... but I am enjoying the K't'inga alot more than I enjoyed my Heavy Cruiser and Exploration Cruiser. And... I like the look of the K't'inga. I dont show my armor or kits so... I hear in season 2 Orion Females get bikinis... All I need is the Hefner bathrobe (idea shamelessy stolen from my fleet admiral).
Well, the Hefner robe might be a great addition, but can't quite imagine adding it to my Klingon. Maybe a Ferengi, but that wouldn't help the Klingon side.
I'm happy you enjoy the K't'inga and perhaps you understand why we want more than just to be told, "Ah, here's some scraps. Be happy with them, we didn't even have to give you those." We want to enjoy the game to the same level that someone that loves the Federation side enjoys it. I play a Fed character and enjoy that side usually. I see quest arcs and stories and interaction that simply does not exist on the Klingon side and I don't think it is too much to ask for it to.
If Cryptic designed the game, and it's within their right to do so, as a Federation game w/ Klingon PvP only thrown in, then at least have them be honest with that decision. If they want that then they need to come out and say, "Klingons, we understand you want a story and a purpose beyond being a PvP opposition to the real game, but it's not how we designed it and we won't be doing that."
Prime example is LoTRO. If I wanted to play an Orc over there to the same level I play a human, I can't. However, the difference is that Turbine has been very upfront that the Monster Play is simply to shoehorn an aspect of PvP into a game that really, IMHO, doesn't need it but simply because it is popular, it was added. No one complains much because they KNOW that the monster side won't ever have a full PvE existance. However here, Cryptic tries to say that the Klingon faction (and possibly Romulan future one) are just as important, but then when it comes down to their actions, they aren't. They say one thing and do another which makes me wonder about their intentions.
The Galaxy-X is restricted to Mk VIII weapons and it has the speed and turning of a tier 4 ship. Why would anyone take that instead of another tier 5 cruiser? So it has a cloaking device, so what? It's not like it has battle cloak or anything. It shows up, it fails to hurt you, you blow it the hell up before it gets away.
Didn't anyone notice the far more interesting news for Klingons?
How many Federation players are there compared to Klingon players? Star Trek always had a major focus on the Federation. Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, and Dominion were always secondary. Star Trek would be a very boring show if every episode was about exploration and diplomacy. IMO, the Klingons were originally added to add some conflict to Star Trek.
If there is any discrepancy between the Federation and Klingons, then it is due to the devs putting effort towards the majority. After all, The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.
Originally STO was just going to have one faction, Federation. It got a minamal wave of interrest. Cryptic changed it up and added the Klingon faction, interrest boomed. Craig and the rest all promised two fully dressed out factions. Granted most of the series have revolved around the human (Starfleet) side. However when you look at the story lines of all the series, movies, games etc. The ground work was laid to flesh out and give substance to the cultures of the other major factions as well. Klingon has become a living growing language, in the real world.
The fan base behind Klingons is huge, or else things like Klingon Academy would have never done as well as it did. I just wish the game had been better. Hmmm that has a familier ring.
In the TOS, there was lots of conflict that didn't involve the Klingons.
And in the TOS, the Klingon Empire was warping across the stars long before human even thought about cracking the atom.
As for the majority, well our fleet, which was established almost a year before launch had to upgrade it's ventrlo server 3 times to accomadate the demand.
The Galaxy-X is restricted to Mk VIII weapons and it has the speed and turning of a tier 4 ship. Why would anyone take that instead of another tier 5 cruiser? So it has a cloaking device, so what? It's not like it has battle cloak or anything. It shows up, it fails to hurt you, you blow it the hell up before it gets away.
Didn't anyone notice the far more interesting news for Klingons?
My bet: Stasis Weapons from the Animated Series, a sustained and very energy-heavy multi-target ship hold.
Anyone else have any new Klingon-specific powers they would like to see? Because they're coming!
The devs said much, but did little. They lost my trust entirely.
This is wrong. It is restricted to the normal weapon slots of a Galaxy class ship, e.g. it is missing one aft weapon slot compared to a tier 5 cruiser.
But the type of equipment you can use is only limited by your own rank.
I've been up against them a number of times now, they're no more (or less) dangerous than any other Fed out there. Flown well it can be hard to take down, flown normally, well, they go *pop* just like anybody else.
So the problem isn't that the system is broken because Klingon faction have no PvE or that the majority of the support is for the Federation side, it's that we have the audacity to expect the Klingon faction to be equal to the Federation side in content and support? I didn't realize that this game was originally written as a Federation game and we should be appreciative of the scraps that were thrown our way since they really shouldn't have to do that even. I stand corrected then.
As well you should since you missed my point.... which was.. to put it bluntly: you complain about Fed players QQing to get their way when Fed players learned by watching KDF players and their incessant QQing about PvE content that they weren't meant to have. Do I think there should be PvE for klingons? sure... I also think there should be Ferengi, Romulan, Cardassian playable factions. KDF players set the tone and set it early. Others have learned that the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Again... just in case you missed. Fed players qqing about cloaks learned by watching KDF players qqing about PvE content.[/point]
Personally, I thought the vision of the Klingon side was that they were put in as a PvP faction because Cryptic could get say they have PvP, without actually incorporating it correcting since that would cost extra time and resources. Now, they didn't understand how to implement it, but like any good marketing tool, they knew it had to be shoehorned in there somehow and this was what we got. Long story short, since they didn't want to do it right, they put it in so Klingon players could be the equivelant of "Player controlled NPC Enemies" providing opposition for Federation players. Basically, we are paying Cryptic to allow us to be the game content for Federation players benefit, not actually here for our enjoyment. Again, I stand corrected.
on this we might agree, if I understand you correctly (sarcasm not withstanding). I think KDF was meant as pure PvP a la Guild Wars. Problem is players wanted KDF as playable faction (read PvE content). Dont get me wrong... perfectly valid viewpoint. The problem I saw was KDF players wanted PvE they wanted it complete. and they wanted it yesterday. Cryptic caved and this is what you got.
Perhaps so. However, that does not negate the fact that the Federation, from a game design not Star Trek Lore view, should not have cloak. This is not Counterstrike where everyone is the same with only a different skin. There should be different reasons to play each faction.
on this we can agree... however, I am indifferent as to whether Feds get cloaks. Having played KDF (however briefly), a cloak (and its bonus), dual cannons, and the turning rate to keep arc is more than the 8% loss in hull.. If you would like to keep cloaks away from the Feds... I'm ok with that.... however, cloak detection needs a DEVpass and power levels while cloaked need a look/see. Having played both there is a distinct advantage.
True, however do you truly believe that Cryptic or their federation player masters would actually allow a klingon ship to fire from cloak?! Is that why you brought this up? To say that the Galaxy X is canon and should be allowed and that Chang is canon and maybe it will be allowed? Perhaps so. Personally, I don't think it will ever happen, but who knows, maybe I'll be surprised.
I think if they did they would (as suggested) give stealth detection, power levels a look/see. Chang didn't have ANY shields and he only fired torps and he didn't one-shot the Enterprise. Remember, supposedly Cloaks suck the life out of your power l;evels a la Full Impulse. So yea.. if they did that then sure.
Unfortunately, even if they do, I'll consider it another mistake. I'm not looking at the decisions from a lore or a "fair" view, but from a business model and game design view. It would rock if the Klingons could fire from cloak. However, it would be unfairly powerful and you don't offset one poor choice with an equally unfairly powerful poor choice for the other side.
thats the thing.. you claim to argue from a 'business model'... If the bulk of there player base is Fed... then there there go. I dont know what those numbers are so I have to leave it Cryptic to make those calls.
Possible and probably a good idea. Personally, I think they need to scrap a majority of the game and take alot of it back to the drawing board. This IP deserves a better effort and I honestly would like to see them do better. Surprisingly, I'm still here with the faith and hope that Cryptic will take some of the ideas they see, correct some of the mistakes they've made and actually build the game that most people want to play, not the haphazard game we currently have. I bought the lifetime sub for that reason and hope to see it pan out. If it doesn't, well, I'll chalk it up to a lesson learned and move on.
I as well. Like I stated earlier, I have my ideas on the missions I wanna see and factions I'd like to play. I bought the LTS because I they'll get it here eventually... (note to Cryptic: Ferengi Faction and ship capturing... ftw!! )
Well, the Hefner robe might be a great addition, but can't quite imagine adding it to my Klingon. Maybe a Ferengi, but that wouldn't help the Klingon side.
Its a running joke in our fleet [Fleet 1580]. Our Fleet Admiral, upon starting the kdf version fleet [House of J'ak], collected an all Orion Female crew. He stated that h edressed them as modestly as the tailor would let him and that all he needed was the Hefner bathrobe. He then promptly made em all nuns.
]
I'm happy you enjoy the K't'inga and perhaps you understand why we want more than just to be told, "Ah, here's some scraps. Be happy with them, we didn't even have to give you those." We want to enjoy the game to the same level that someone that loves the Federation side enjoys it. I play a Fed character and enjoy that side usually. I see quest arcs and stories and interaction that simply does not exist on the Klingon side and I don't think it is too much to ask for it to.
I dont think it is too much to ask for either but some your KDF bretheren aren't so patient and are definitely, very vocal. Wanting something is not unreasonable. I think the impatient timetable for which KDF players desired this was unreasonable. It is this very impatient and vocal behavior (and Cryptics response to it) that is driving the Fed Cloak issue
If Cryptic designed the game, and it's within their right to do so, as a Federation game w/ Klingon PvP only thrown in, then at least have them be honest with that decision. If they want that then they need to come out and say, "Klingons, we understand you want a story and a purpose beyond being a PvP opposition to the real game, but it's not how we designed it and we won't be doing that."
on this we can agree. I would add... I do not have the forum posts, but Cryptic did start out this way but clearly they abandoned that position and they did it early.
Prime example is LoTRO. If I wanted to play an Orc over there to the same level I play a human, I can't. However, the difference is that Turbine has been very upfront that the Monster Play is simply to shoehorn an aspect of PvP into a game that really, IMHO, doesn't need it but simply because it is popular, it was added. No one complains much because they KNOW that the monster side won't ever have a full PvE existance. However here, Cryptic tries to say that the Klingon faction (and possibly Romulan future one) are just as important, but then when it comes down to their actions, they aren't. They say one thing and do another which makes me wonder about their intentions.
Like I stated earliler... I think that was the original intent on KDF. I think Cryptic underestimated the popularity of KDF. And have subsequently fumbled the ball in deploying what passes for PvE. I think if they had stayed firm and waited to deploy KDF as a developed faction instead of PvP only... it would have faired better. Yes the vocal types would hav ebeen vocal but it is my experience that the really vocal types are never satisfied (just an opinion).
I apologize for the nested and lengthy post... I'm not a fan doing this. I'll still read any responses but I doubt I will respond any further comments.
I don't agree with any fed ships being able to cloak purely because klingon ships having cloaks as a unique ability is one of the main reason why players start klingon chars.
IF fed ships have cloaking ability what will be the point in playing an underdeveloped class in this game. At least don't give cloaks until game content is balanced for all factions with equal numbers of areas/storyline missions to keep players interested.
I think fed ships having cloaks before content is balanced between factions could damage in game pvp due to lack of other faction players to pvp against..
When you say you aren't a fan of Nested replies, that did remind me that they are generally seen as negative. For that I do apologize. I'm the opposite. I generally see them as more efficient and easier to read because they break up each facet of a post that can easily cover many many pieces. My intention wasn't to be rude, but I do forget that others may see that style of response as such.
Now, on to the other things. I think we will have to "agree to disagree" based on some of your stance. I think my initial irritation was the idea that all of this complaining isn't because there is something to complain about, but because we are expecting too much. After reading back, I think that pushed a button and again, I apologize for the tone. Whether we agree or not, it wasn't called for and I (honestly this time... ) stand corrected. We still disagree, but that's ok.
Lastly, I think we can agree that whether Cryptic's intentions for the Klingon faction was one way or another, it's not succeeding. As my example showed, if they were trying to emulate the "monster play" style of LoTRO, then they should have been clear about it and stuck to their guns as to it's purpose. I'm sure there are people who complain they can't take their Orc warrior through the town of Bree skewering the Free People, but that isn't the design that Turbine set down and they aren't going to adjust.
So, if the problem is that Cryptic has created this mess by trying to be too accomadating (and we can ALL agree that they do this by trying to please everyone all the time) then they need to at least come down and say that. However, I don't ever remember STO being set forth as a "Federation primarily" game w/ "Monster Klingon PvP" in the description anywhere. If that was done at some point, then I stand corrected and will step back from my desires to see the Klingons fleshed out. I'm not one to argue for the moon when it's clearly not in the cards. However, if they did promise a Klingon faction and then did a haphazard job, then I'm happy to call a spade a spade and let them know my disappointment.
Anyhow, thanks for your input. Agreed or not, it was insightful.
Misleading topic based on FUD. The Galaxy X has several disadvantages to other Federation ships at T5, never mind compared to KDF ships. I hardly think the phaser lance, sharing a cool down with Beam Overload as it does, makes up for the lower damage output offered. Three rear weapons, one less tactical slot and the inherent slower turning of the T4 Galaxy class cruiser. How is this a threat to any skilled KDF player? One of the most annoying tactics I've had to face in my cruiser is when ships try to stick to the rear shield facing. This ship alone will make that happen even more.
Do I think more ships should get cloak on the Federation side? I'm not sure, a T5 Defiant with it would have to be done very carefully to avoid being overpowered but no cruiser is going to kill a skilled player even with a cloak damage bonus, they don't have the burst DPS to do it.
As i warned about a month ago it appears Cryptic will be offering the Federation Galaxy X Cloaked Ship in the C-Store soon.
And.........
They will be introducing Federation Cloaking to non C-Store ships to in STO.
Every Starfleet player will have the opportunity to cloak.......
next will feds get battlecloak, universal stations, and more river from klingon tears! I warn you all!
Symmetric games are very little fun, if those happen I think I might hang it up on this game, and I know a lot of people who feel the same way unfortunately about those inclusions to the fed side.
Cryptic started out trying to get it right, but instead of trying to fix the problem of Federation players generally being morons against their Klingon counterparts in pugs, they give them everything that makes the Klingons unique and nothing that helps the Federation....
Comments
To be fair, I must admit that I had forgotten about the Romulans in that episode (it's been a while since I've seen it).
Alright, as you're not really a PvPer you wouldn't have played any KvK matches. They're a pain in the TRIBBLE, not because they're close matches or anything like that, but because nobody wants to decloak. People just sit there or fly around for 15 minutes looking for the one person who's either a moron or a bait-tank to pounce on. In almost every case those games take a LOT longer than FvK matches.
With that said I'm not that worried about Capture and Hold maps as you actually do have to decloak in order to cap a flag (contrary to the belief of some believe it or not), but with arenas and the few assault missions that we have, it would be a boring abomination. Nobody plays KvK matches at the max rank, and I do mean nobody as the queues almost always are at 0 and if you try to sit and wait for one to go then you'll be waiting most of the day.
It would be the end of any significant amount of PvP in this game if the Federation got cloaking because people would quit out of boredom and frustration over slow games rather than getting killed all the time.
I really should clarify that I'm not against the ship itself, I'm against it's cloak and the potential snowball effect that it will have in terms of Federation cloaking. If you take the cloak off of the AGT-Galaxy then I will shut up and even support it going into the C-Store, but not with it on.
Yes I've played it (I have Fed alts
Sure Sela might be a little........bent on certain things, but she's not stupid. She'll maintain peace as long as reasonably possible but she knows that the Empire isn't strong enough for full scale war on two fronts either as when they come into the game they'll either be at war with both the Klingons and the Federation or on the edge with both (or a third where it's Romulans and Federation vs. Klingons, in which case they still wouldn't have cloak because the Federation would realize their need of the Romulans as they did in the Dominion war and bend over backwards to make them happy).
OK, now let's assume every Fed uses a Galaxy X?
-> they just lost all Escorts and Science Vessels.
-> they replaced Assault Cruisers with a worse turning Assault Cruiser with only 2 Tac consoles, which has a cloak and some kind of 45° Beam Overload gun.
The only possible problem is - also in regards of a future Romulan faction - the problem well known from Klingon vs Klingon: The losing side cloaks forever.
I'm down with this part completely. If I can make it work in T5 I'll be incredibly happy...
Now if a science ship could cloak, then I would have a problem since the ability to see cloaked ships while cloaked is a game-breaking exploit.
So Cryptic throws in House vs House. However, no personal dueling??? Well stop the presses, the Feds want to fight amongest themselves too. Lets call it War Games taadaa happy feds. Still no crafting of any kind for the Klingons, even though the system has been revamped and theere are episodic missions for the Feds dealing with "gasp" Klingon crafting. The Vo'Quv was supposed to be big and bad...oops the cloak crashes the system. Instead of fixing it, we nerf the cloak and say its to big to cloak..my TRIBBLE. tell that to the Romulans and the D'dedrix class warbird. But the feds say its to powerfull...nerf gun hits it again. Now its a big fat target and a waste of skill points. Wait one, the Feds want a big bad TRIBBLE ship with cloak...ok no problem, coming right up.
Still no crafting for the Klingons, still waiting on episodic missions, still waiting on crafting, I wager the RSE faction get crafting before the Klingons. Still waiting on some additional ship designs..I lost count on how many the feds have. Would love to see the K'Vort class Bird of Prey as a tier 5. I can go on and on, but at this point it's useless. Craig says they are watching and reading the forums, striving to give us players what we are looking for.
I call ******** unless your strictly a federation player. Can't wait to see season 3 and how goofed up the Romulans will be. Hell the Klingons started the war with the Romulans and can't even travel into thier space.
Have to stick to our own little backyard.:rolleyes:
But lets make the feds happy and stroke em with a new ship that has cloak! Kiss my :eek:
Cryptic caters to Feds and what the complain about, it's not hard to see their incompetence. :mad:
The Feds already started the discussion about the armor and weapons from Voyager Endgame.
Wouldn't be surprised if they would get it.
If there is any discrepancy between the Federation and Klingons, then it is due to the devs putting effort towards the majority. After all, The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.
What shouldn't happen is that it becomes unbalanced and overpowered. (Or that it becomes useless
But I don't see this as a "Fed" thing. I see this as a "Startrek fan" thing. Startrek fans are the guys that find Starfleet, Klingons, Borg, Romulans, Warp Engines, Tricorders and Quantum Torpedoes cool. You might have heard of them. They are a strange bunch of people, to be sure...
Then they should have released the game as "Federation Online", not pretend to say that it is anything but. Now, I'm not completely sold on the whole "Federation says 'Jump' and Cryptic asks 'How high!'" conspiracy theory yet, however, the fact is that the Klingon faction was thrown in haphazardly and very little has been done to fix it.
Personally, I think what happened was that they had every intention to put in a full blown Klingon faction and someone at a higher level said, "Well, they are here to give into this whole PvP facet that people like so do we really need a story? Afterall there is no story to Counterstrike and it's popular. Just throw them in and people will play them as a PvP aspect of the game." As such, they saw anything beyond giving them a PvP angle only as a waste of their time. After all, who wants to play a silly Klingon, right?
However, the fact is that a large number of people want to play Klingons and Romulans and whatever else beyond the Federation. To compare the current numbers of Klingon players vs Federation players is like comparing the current number of Romulan players vs Federation players and saying, "Well, hell, I guess no one wants to play a romulan. look, there aren't anyone playing one in game!" The majority of players don't play Klingons, not because they don't want to, but because they can't. End of story, there is no Klingon game. There is "Fly klingon ships, grind random (and painfully boring) grind missions while waiting for non-existant PvP sessions." or go play a fleshed out and supported Federation game. Obviously very few people will have the patience to do grind missions over the Federation game. I know that I speak from experience there. I would absolutely love to have some true story and immersion on par with the old Academy and such, but it isn't there. So what do I do? I go play my Federation captain till the Klingon side is actually implemented.
I find games suffer from trying to balance PvP and PvE. If STO was completely PvE, then we wouldn't see all the changes that Science skills went through. Which is why I would have a PvP and PvE power for each skill if I was given the chance to create my own MMO.
Wanna do something wonderful? Fix the Klingon Content. Make it truly worthwhile to have different factions so that PvP is full of combatants and stop TRIBBLE with the history of the franchise.
First to those that say the Klingon Faction is fine .... level a Klingon to BG 5 then come talk to us other Klingon's. Most Feds who do try to level a klingon have the rose colored glasses come off fairly fast. Make sure you buy each ship to see the many customization options we have too. /Sarc
Second, when I first got Federation / Cruiser Online er.. STO.. I wanted to make / play a Klingon from the Start but was disappointed that i had to UNLOCK it by playing FED first. No one can say how popular the Klingon faction would be if it was Equal to what the Federation side is now. Equal in polish, story line, and function. We can't even dress up our toons properly with out over laping or torn mismatched skins. Play with shoulder pieces and sashes for example. Try to make your kits show.
The only goal I really ever had was to play a Klingon and fly a Bird of Prey. I couldn't even do that because an Alien is a better race pick for PvP then a true Klingon.
Back to the OP Topic.
As far as the Galaxy X goes I really don't care other then I think it will become the griefer ship of choice.
So many Feds / Players are butt hurt over getting PWNED in PvP that they will get a AGT ship and go into matches and just sit some place cloaked. They will do it just like now by going afk but now they have zero risk of seeing their pretty ship all blown up. You already get 1 or 2 afkers each match now as it is.
Unbalanced Q issues will be worse because players will join and then sit cloaked and do nothing. Yes, Klingons could do this now but they have PvP missions that require wins and that's not always the case on the fed side. So any one who actually wants to play to win will have poor game play issues that can't be directly fixed like the poor Q system could be because the issue will be player generated. They could make all rewards earned by WINNING Only but I really can't see that happening without ****ing off the Feddy Bears to no end.
It will be just one more tiny nail in the coffin for this game.
I'm actually pleasantly surprised that lip service was paid to the promise not to include anything gameplay-affecting in the C-store without being available in-game, but I'm sure plenty of weasel words will be employed in an effort to keep that particular mechanical configuration unique to the C-store to try and grab more money from it.
Klingons were supposed to be a PvP faction but Klingon players demanded PvE content. Ya'll goin on and on about Feddy Bears QQing to get what they want need to remember who they learned it from....
In CO, players wanted a 3rd travel power... (cause apparently 2 wasn't enough) so they gave em one... and a month long process along with it. I'm thinking Cryptic has something similar in the works. They'll put the Galaxy-X in C-Store for alot of points (like the Connie) and to keep the C-Store as fluff or items obtainable in the game, the fed cloak could possibly come with a month long research mission.
You know... Chang had a cloak that let him fire. The 'its canon' argument goes both ways.
Cloaks key off Aux.... I would not be surprised if the cloaking system got an overhaul. Even Kirk figured out how to detect Chang. This might also solve the Cloaked vs Cloaked stalemate.
I fly an Assault Cruiser Fed-Side because its the Feddiest McFederson looking ship in the T5 line (T5 science ships are close). Unlike the 'Where's my lightsaber cup holder' Star Cruiser, which I believe to be a functionally better ship, my Assault Cruiser makes me feel very Trek.
Players fly the Connie and the Galaxy-X because they can... because they look good doin it. Style I think was word someone used.
Technically, My Klingon captain is only Cdr6... I find piloting my K't'inga as enjoyable as my Assault Cruiser. I do not enjoy PvP in my Assault Cruiser. I cant compare the 2 ships because they are different classes... but I am enjoying the K't'inga alot more than I enjoyed my Heavy Cruiser and Exploration Cruiser. And... I like the look of the K't'inga. I dont show my armor or kits so... I hear in season 2 Orion Females get bikinis... All I need is the Hefner bathrobe (idea shamelessy stolen from my fleet admiral).
PvP will always have afk'ers... just remember where they learned to AFK cloak; a bunch of klingons goin on and on about the FedBall.
So the problem isn't that the system is broken because Klingon faction have no PvE or that the majority of the support is for the Federation side, it's that we have the audacity to expect the Klingon faction to be equal to the Federation side in content and support? I didn't realize that this game was originally written as a Federation game and we should be appreciative of the scraps that were thrown our way since they really shouldn't have to do that even. I stand corrected then.
Personally, I thought the vision of the Klingon side was that they were put in as a PvP faction because Cryptic could get say they have PvP, without actually incorporating it correcting since that would cost extra time and resources. Now, they didn't understand how to implement it, but like any good marketing tool, they knew it had to be shoehorned in there somehow and this was what we got. Long story short, since they didn't want to do it right, they put it in so Klingon players could be the equivelant of "Player controlled NPC Enemies" providing opposition for Federation players. Basically, we are paying Cryptic to allow us to be the game content for Federation players benefit, not actually here for our enjoyment. Again, I stand corrected.
Perhaps so. However, that does not negate the fact that the Federation, from a game design not Star Trek Lore view, should not have cloak. This is not Counterstrike where everyone is the same with only a different skin. There should be different reasons to play each faction.
True, however do you truly believe that Cryptic or their federation player masters would actually allow a klingon ship to fire from cloak?! Is that why you brought this up? To say that the Galaxy X is canon and should be allowed and that Chang is canon and maybe it will be allowed? Perhaps so. Personally, I don't think it will ever happen, but who knows, maybe I'll be surprised.
Unfortunately, even if they do, I'll consider it another mistake. I'm not looking at the decisions from a lore or a "fair" view, but from a business model and game design view. It would rock if the Klingons could fire from cloak. However, it would be unfairly powerful and you don't offset one poor choice with an equally unfairly powerful poor choice for the other side.
Possible and probably a good idea. Personally, I think they need to scrap a majority of the game and take alot of it back to the drawing board. This IP deserves a better effort and I honestly would like to see them do better. Surprisingly, I'm still here with the faith and hope that Cryptic will take some of the ideas they see, correct some of the mistakes they've made and actually build the game that most people want to play, not the haphazard game we currently have. I bought the lifetime sub for that reason and hope to see it pan out. If it doesn't, well, I'll chalk it up to a lesson learned and move on.
Well, the Hefner robe might be a great addition, but can't quite imagine adding it to my Klingon. Maybe a Ferengi, but that wouldn't help the Klingon side.
I'm happy you enjoy the K't'inga and perhaps you understand why we want more than just to be told, "Ah, here's some scraps. Be happy with them, we didn't even have to give you those." We want to enjoy the game to the same level that someone that loves the Federation side enjoys it. I play a Fed character and enjoy that side usually. I see quest arcs and stories and interaction that simply does not exist on the Klingon side and I don't think it is too much to ask for it to.
If Cryptic designed the game, and it's within their right to do so, as a Federation game w/ Klingon PvP only thrown in, then at least have them be honest with that decision. If they want that then they need to come out and say, "Klingons, we understand you want a story and a purpose beyond being a PvP opposition to the real game, but it's not how we designed it and we won't be doing that."
Prime example is LoTRO. If I wanted to play an Orc over there to the same level I play a human, I can't. However, the difference is that Turbine has been very upfront that the Monster Play is simply to shoehorn an aspect of PvP into a game that really, IMHO, doesn't need it but simply because it is popular, it was added. No one complains much because they KNOW that the monster side won't ever have a full PvE existance. However here, Cryptic tries to say that the Klingon faction (and possibly Romulan future one) are just as important, but then when it comes down to their actions, they aren't. They say one thing and do another which makes me wonder about their intentions.
Didn't anyone notice the far more interesting news for Klingons?
My bet: Stasis Weapons from the Animated Series, a sustained and very energy-heavy multi-target ship hold.
Anyone else have any new Klingon-specific powers they would like to see? Because they're coming!
Originally STO was just going to have one faction, Federation. It got a minamal wave of interrest. Cryptic changed it up and added the Klingon faction, interrest boomed. Craig and the rest all promised two fully dressed out factions. Granted most of the series have revolved around the human (Starfleet) side. However when you look at the story lines of all the series, movies, games etc. The ground work was laid to flesh out and give substance to the cultures of the other major factions as well. Klingon has become a living growing language, in the real world.
The fan base behind Klingons is huge, or else things like Klingon Academy would have never done as well as it did. I just wish the game had been better. Hmmm that has a familier ring.
In the TOS, there was lots of conflict that didn't involve the Klingons.
And in the TOS, the Klingon Empire was warping across the stars long before human even thought about cracking the atom.
As for the majority, well our fleet, which was established almost a year before launch had to upgrade it's ventrlo server 3 times to accomadate the demand.
Please keep your posts clean. Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~GM Tiyshen"
The devs said much, but did little. They lost my trust entirely.
But the type of equipment you can use is only limited by your own rank.
"It has Tier 4 weapon slots and the speed and turn rate of a Exploration Cruiser."
So that means it has fewer slots, not lower Mk weapons? Fair enough. I'm still not worried. That's lower DPS to make up for the cloak.
Again... just in case you missed. Fed players qqing about cloaks learned by watching KDF players qqing about PvE content.[/point] on this we might agree, if I understand you correctly (sarcasm not withstanding). I think KDF was meant as pure PvP a la Guild Wars. Problem is players wanted KDF as playable faction (read PvE content). Dont get me wrong... perfectly valid viewpoint. The problem I saw was KDF players wanted PvE they wanted it complete. and they wanted it yesterday. Cryptic caved and this is what you got. on this we can agree... however, I am indifferent as to whether Feds get cloaks. Having played KDF (however briefly), a cloak (and its bonus), dual cannons, and the turning rate to keep arc is more than the 8% loss in hull.. If you would like to keep cloaks away from the Feds... I'm ok with that.... however, cloak detection needs a DEVpass and power levels while cloaked need a look/see. Having played both there is a distinct advantage.
I think if they did they would (as suggested) give stealth detection, power levels a look/see. Chang didn't have ANY shields and he only fired torps and he didn't one-shot the Enterprise. Remember, supposedly Cloaks suck the life out of your power l;evels a la Full Impulse. So yea.. if they did that then sure.
thats the thing.. you claim to argue from a 'business model'... If the bulk of there player base is Fed... then there there go. I dont know what those numbers are so I have to leave it Cryptic to make those calls.
I as well. Like I stated earlier, I have my ideas on the missions I wanna see and factions I'd like to play. I bought the LTS because I they'll get it here eventually... (note to Cryptic: Ferengi Faction and ship capturing... ftw!!
Its a running joke in our fleet [Fleet 1580]. Our Fleet Admiral, upon starting the kdf version fleet [House of J'ak], collected an all Orion Female crew. He stated that h edressed them as modestly as the tailor would let him and that all he needed was the Hefner bathrobe. He then promptly made em all nuns.
I dont think it is too much to ask for either but some your KDF bretheren aren't so patient and are definitely, very vocal. Wanting something is not unreasonable. I think the impatient timetable for which KDF players desired this was unreasonable. It is this very impatient and vocal behavior (and Cryptics response to it) that is driving the Fed Cloak issue
on this we can agree. I would add... I do not have the forum posts, but Cryptic did start out this way but clearly they abandoned that position and they did it early.
Like I stated earliler... I think that was the original intent on KDF. I think Cryptic underestimated the popularity of KDF. And have subsequently fumbled the ball in deploying what passes for PvE. I think if they had stayed firm and waited to deploy KDF as a developed faction instead of PvP only... it would have faired better. Yes the vocal types would hav ebeen vocal but it is my experience that the really vocal types are never satisfied (just an opinion).
I apologize for the nested and lengthy post... I'm not a fan doing this. I'll still read any responses but I doubt I will respond any further comments.
IF fed ships have cloaking ability what will be the point in playing an underdeveloped class in this game. At least don't give cloaks until game content is balanced for all factions with equal numbers of areas/storyline missions to keep players interested.
I think fed ships having cloaks before content is balanced between factions could damage in game pvp due to lack of other faction players to pvp against..
When you say you aren't a fan of Nested replies, that did remind me that they are generally seen as negative. For that I do apologize. I'm the opposite. I generally see them as more efficient and easier to read because they break up each facet of a post that can easily cover many many pieces. My intention wasn't to be rude, but I do forget that others may see that style of response as such.
Now, on to the other things. I think we will have to "agree to disagree" based on some of your stance. I think my initial irritation was the idea that all of this complaining isn't because there is something to complain about, but because we are expecting too much. After reading back, I think that pushed a button and again, I apologize for the tone. Whether we agree or not, it wasn't called for and I (honestly this time...
Lastly, I think we can agree that whether Cryptic's intentions for the Klingon faction was one way or another, it's not succeeding. As my example showed, if they were trying to emulate the "monster play" style of LoTRO, then they should have been clear about it and stuck to their guns as to it's purpose. I'm sure there are people who complain they can't take their Orc warrior through the town of Bree skewering the Free People, but that isn't the design that Turbine set down and they aren't going to adjust.
So, if the problem is that Cryptic has created this mess by trying to be too accomadating (and we can ALL agree that they do this by trying to please everyone all the time) then they need to at least come down and say that. However, I don't ever remember STO being set forth as a "Federation primarily" game w/ "Monster Klingon PvP" in the description anywhere. If that was done at some point, then I stand corrected and will step back from my desires to see the Klingons fleshed out. I'm not one to argue for the moon when it's clearly not in the cards. However, if they did promise a Klingon faction and then did a haphazard job, then I'm happy to call a spade a spade and let them know my disappointment.
Anyhow, thanks for your input. Agreed or not, it was insightful.
Do I think more ships should get cloak on the Federation side? I'm not sure, a T5 Defiant with it would have to be done very carefully to avoid being overpowered but no cruiser is going to kill a skilled player even with a cloak damage bonus, they don't have the burst DPS to do it.
next will feds get battlecloak, universal stations, and more river from klingon tears! I warn you all!
Symmetric games are very little fun, if those happen I think I might hang it up on this game, and I know a lot of people who feel the same way unfortunately about those inclusions to the fed side.
Cryptic started out trying to get it right, but instead of trying to fix the problem of Federation players generally being morons against their Klingon counterparts in pugs, they give them everything that makes the Klingons unique and nothing that helps the Federation....