as for that game. I don't see it destroying this game. we will lose some people. but both star wars, and star trek have their fans. over all I can see both games continue to grow, and stay alive.
I'll remember to quote you on this in 2011. We'll see what happens. My guess is that STO goes F2P by then.
is F2P a bad thing. what if they go they way of DDO, or what is going to doLOTR? from what I understand it's made them money.
1 year or less for an MMO to go F2P is a bad sign. 2 years still a bad sign. 3 years (in LOTRO's case for this fall) I say is better, but it shows that the MMO market is even more competitive now. But then again DDO went into F2P mode after 3 years (and I consider that more of a failure than STO), so perhaps this is just Turbine's model?
1 year or less for an MMO to go F2P is a bad sign. 2 years still a bad sign. 3 years (in LOTRO's case for this fall) I say is better, but it shows that the MMO market is even more competitive now. But then again DDO went into F2P mode after 3 years (and I consider that more of a failure than STO), so perhaps this is just Turbine's model?
who knows... why not we discuss this in the discussion section. ( I'm tired of switching sub-forums )
who knows... why not we discuss this in the discussion section. ( I'm tired of switching sub-forums )
If you do subscriptions with no e-mail, then you can just visit your control panel: http://forums.startrekonline.com/usercp.php to see what threads you're subscribed to with new posts since you visited.
(Red) Exclusive definition #1 tells us that items can be restricted to a person or group.
(Red) Unique definition #1 tells us the strictest since only applies when their is only one (sole) and says nothing about exclusive otherwise.
(Green) Explains that Unique is : distinctively characteristic. ( this definition applies when the first of one or sole does not apply) This definition applies due to the large amount of the copies available of each single item , and would not apply if only (one) were in of each item was available in existence.
Vendor exclusives are still offered by vendors, it may be Cryptic's wasy of phasing out vendor exclusives over time by offering then in the C- Store
In the Case of the MU set there was one post that said, "Lifetime subscribers will also receive an exclusive Mirror Universe costume set for Star Trek Online." Rekhan the marketing guy, stated that this was an exclusive bundling offer to the STO community and that was the correction that explained the only time exclusive and MU set were ever placed together and was never in the Champions post on the Champions forum. http://forums.champions-online.com/announcement.php?f=2&a=7 (no mention of the word exclusive in reference with the MU set) and were named as incentives in the STO posts.
Being that I have $500.00 invested in Cryptic and this title I feel in no way "screwed" over. We all got what we paid for with several "Unique" incentives. This is a Epic Win for the current and future community members for they will be able to enjoy the "unique" "Trek" experience!
Thank You.
The advertisements for the CO LTS with the Mirror Universe uniform did indeed use the word "exclusive".
And as neither definition (exclusive or unique) has any mention of and does not imply time limits and the advertising for products with those words had no mention of a time limit, one cannot assume that the consumer would know that there was such a time limit. An item exclusive or unique to a certain purchase is expected to remain exclusive or unique to that purchase unless a time limit on said items was advertised on the packaging.
In short, what Cryptic has done could be considered False Advertising and could result in a Class Action.
Just saying, maybe Cryptic should stick to using the word Bonus next time.
The advertisements for the CO LTS with the Mirror Universe uniform did indeed use the word "exclusive".
And as neither definition (exclusive or unique) has any mention of and does not imply time limits and the advertising for products with those words had no mention of a time limit, one cannot assume that the consumer would know that there was such a time limit. An item exclusive or unique to a certain purchase is expected to remain exclusive or unique to that purchase unless a time limit on said items was advertised on the packaging.
In short, what Cryptic has done could be considered False Advertising and could result in a Class Action.
Just saying, maybe Cryptic should stick to using the word Bonus next time.
:cool:
Yup. The word "bonus" would be much more appropriate. I always knew it was a possibility that Cryptic would turn around and re-release these "exclusive" items since they've done sleazier things in the past. But I never would have guessed it would be just 4 months after launch. Oh well.
Funny how fans are defending Cryptic on this point even though other well-known MMO developers use the term "exclusive" to mean never again released. It's obvious that Cryptic is just blowing marketing hot-air all the time. :rolleyes:
Yup. The word "bonus" would be much more appropriate.
I like 'early access'.
As in...
Buy the Super Duper Special Limited 'Spawn of Sami' Edition of Days Of Our Lives Online TODAY and gain EARLY ACCESS to elite character traits that will distinguish your character as an authentic Spawn of Sami Brady! You'll also get EARLY ACCESS to the Bo Brady Harley - just like the one Bo Brady rode in the show! Available exclusively at almost all game stores everywhere!
On this point, I disagree. The items were exclusive. They were exclusive for a time. They never promised they would never be available on the c-store even going so far as putting it in the FAQ after launch. I realize that some people did not understand that they were only going to be exclusive for a time. However many other industries use this same marketing tactic.
"We're sorry, but Daeke was incorrect in saying this" ... even though he's a rep for Cryptic. As they've done with the guaranteed closed beta access. Cryptic is just plain lying here, in every direction.
If only Cryptic had some recourse ... and taken steps to correct the mistakes of Daeke. If only they had done something ... anything ... to get Daeke to stop posting incorrect things on their forums.
If only Cryptic had some recourse ... and taken steps to correct the mistakes of Daeke. If only they had done something ... anything ... to get Daeke to stop posting incorrect things on their forums.
/sigh
Well, it has happened at least twice now with Daeke. If he were an employee of a company where I made decisions, I would have to eat his words and honor the promise. After the first time it would have been a casual reprimand. But the following times would be grounds for separation. Is Atari/Cryptic running a company or a circus? In the end, Cryptic isn't being responsible for this, so they're passing on their mistakes directly to the customer. :rolleyes:
If only Cryptic had some recourse ... and taken steps to correct the mistakes of Daeke. If only they had done something ... anything ... to get Daeke to stop posting incorrect things on their forums.
I hope that this matter never dies, I feel very sad that my Borg, is no longer a exclusive object.
Here is my story:
I am a huge star trek voyager fan, therefor I sent an e-mail to cryptic support before I bought a third copy of the game and asked them if they could grant me a Borg officer.
I told them that I am a huge fan an that I bought 2 copies of the game both the standard an the deluxe edition and the lifetime subscription.
The answer was that even if they wanted to they could not grant me a Borg officer, because they were not available any more. They told me that I could play the liberated Borg character instead.
So I bought a third copy of the game to get that Borg officer.
I paid a lot of money for this and because I was a lifetime member I could not use the 30 days of game time.
I was very proud of my Borg office, I showed her off in missions. You can call me an idiot if you want but it was a bit of a status symbol to have that Borg officer, it was exclusive and it felt like my own.
Because I am a star trek voyager fan I needed a "seven" in my bridge crew.
I hope that this matter never dies, I feel very sad that my Borg, is no longer a exclusive object.
Because I am a star trek voyager fan I needed a "seven" in my bridge crew.
You still have it. Noone has taken it away from You. Does Your enjoyment only comes from depriving others from having ???
I pre-ordered tons of boxes to get stuff too. Connie, Borg BO, uniforms etc. Still I'm happy for others being able to get them as well plus I still have mine and enjoy them.
It gives me no satisfaction or pleassure to go "na na na , look what i have, You cant have it, na na na." :cool:
If only Cryptic had some recourse ... and taken steps to correct the mistakes of Daeke. If only they had done something ... anything ... to get Daeke to stop posting incorrect things on their forums.
/sigh
Since they did nothing to 'correct' what Daeke said concerning exclusives on any occasion, I can only assume he did not post incorrectly.
Because of this, we can only make guesses as to why they let him go. But he still said what he said as Community manager, and they never said it was incorrect.
Since they did nothing to 'correct' what Daeke said concerning exclusives on any occasion, I can only assume he did not post incorrectly.
It would seem they did quite a bit to correct the mistakes he made.
Case in point, he was incorrect about what he said regarding the mirror universe uniforms? How did Cryptic let the fans know this? GM_Destra made a post about the mirror universe uniforms being added to the C-Store. Proving that yes, Daeke was incorrect. What he said was wrong. How do we know this? Because if you click into the C-Store, you'll see the uniforms there. Uniforms Daeke said wouldn't be there. But are there. Because Daeke was incorrect.
Shhhhhh. Don't tell anyone in this forum. Supposedly Cryptic is a bunch of liars because Daeke said the Mirror Universe uniforms would never be put up for sale on the C-Store.
Daeke, who said this, was obviously the "correct" one here. And Cryptic, who pointed out more than once that Daeke was incorrect on other topics, and who went ahead on put this uniform on the C-Store, despite what Daeke said back when Daeke still worked for the company ... when he sometimes said things that were incorrect, and may have said enough incorrect things to maybe lose a job.
No ... it's Cryptic's fault. All their fault. Cause Daeke said ... and that's carved in stone.
It would seem they did quite a bit to correct the mistakes he made.
Case in point, he was incorrect about what he said regarding the mirror universe uniforms? How did Cryptic let the fans know this? GM_Destra made a post about the mirror universe uniforms being added to the C-Store. Proving that yes, Daeke was incorrect. What he said was wrong. How do we know this? Because if you click into the C-Store, you'll see the uniforms there. Uniforms Daeke said wouldn't be there. But are there. Because Daeke was incorrect.
That has to be the worst argument you ever made. You're off your game tonight.
If Daeke said something wrong back then, they were under obligation to correct it back then. When it was for sale. Since they did not, then one must assume what he said was correct, and people made their purchases accordingly. Going against what was said back then currently is another thing entirely, and exactly the point people are making.
If Daeke said incorrect things, that doesn't remove Cryptic's responsibility to correct them at the time they were said. Because his job was specifically to relay information to the customer. If they failed to do so, they have an obligation to the customers who were mislead by those words.
It would seem they did quite a bit to correct the mistakes he made.
Case in point, he was incorrect about what he said regarding the mirror universe uniforms? How did Cryptic let the fans know this? GM_Destra made a post about the mirror universe uniforms being added to the C-Store. Proving that yes, Daeke was incorrect. What he said was wrong. How do we know this? Because if you click into the C-Store, you'll see the uniforms there. Uniforms Daeke said wouldn't be there. But are there. Because Daeke was incorrect.
Oh my goodness. I have rarely seen logic twisted into a pretzel like this outside of FOX and MSNBC. Making the "correction" 10 months after the fact is hardly relevant. That's called "Changing Policy" of "Changing Our Minds" or something similar.
Shhhhhh. Don't tell anyone in this forum. Supposedly Cryptic is a bunch of liars because Daeke said the Mirror Universe uniforms would never be put up for sale on the C-Store.
Daeke, who said this, was obviously the "correct" one here. And Cryptic, who pointed out more than once that Daeke was incorrect on other topics, and who went ahead on put this uniform on the C-Store, despite what Daeke said back when Daeke still worked for the company ... when he sometimes said things that were incorrect, and may have said enough incorrect things to maybe lose a job.
No ... it's Cryptic's fault. All their fault. Cause Daeke said ... and that's carved in stone.
That Daeke may or may not have made a mistake on something else is irrelevant.
That Deake is not with the company and how he left is irrelevant.
I'll apologize in advance if you've already done so, but unless you can show where someone from Cryptic, at the time of the CO LTS promotion last year posted a correction, Deake's announcement stands with Cryptic's tacit approval.
It would seem they did quite a bit to correct the mistakes he made.
Case in point, he was incorrect about what he said regarding the mirror universe uniforms? How did Cryptic let the fans know this? GM_Destra made a post about the mirror universe uniforms being added to the C-Store. Proving that yes, Daeke was incorrect. What he said was wrong. How do we know this? Because if you click into the C-Store, you'll see the uniforms there. Uniforms Daeke said wouldn't be there. But are there. Because Daeke was incorrect.
Superchum is such a smart guy he voices my opinion and the summary of the facts so well, I only need to post that I agree with him.
I'll apologize in advance if you've already done so, but unless you can show where someone from Cryptic, at the time of the CO LTS promotion last year posted a correction, Deake's announcement stands with Cryptic's tacit approval.
Stormshade did make a post. About Daeke being incorrect. About something he said about the Champions Online LIfetime Sub.
That's nice, Superchum. Also irrelevant. Not just for the subject but because both what Daeke said and the correction occurred after the end of the CO LTS promotion. So, to clarify my question.
Can you (or anyone for that matter) show me where someone from Cryptic, at the time of the CO LTS promotion last year posted a correction about the Mirror Universe Uniforms being unavailable without the purchase of that subscription?
That's nice, Superchum. Also irrelevant. Not just for the subject but because both what Daeke said and the correction occurred after the end of the CO LTS promotion. So, to clarify my question.
Can you (or anyone for that matter) show me where someone from Cryptic, at the time of the CO LTS promotion last year posted a correction about the Mirror Universe Uniforms being unavailable without the purchase of that subscription?
Check a thread called Champions offer look for posts by Rekhan the marketing guy, he says at around the time of the offer they will consider when the MU uniforms will be offered again if the market dictates so.
This was due to many, many community members that were unhappy with the Champions offer.
Rekhan also explained that the exclusive was to the STO community not to the Champions offer.
Comments
I'll remember to quote you on this in 2011.
is F2P a bad thing. what if they go they way of DDO, or what is going to doLOTR? from what I understand it's made them money.
1 year or less for an MMO to go F2P is a bad sign. 2 years still a bad sign. 3 years (in LOTRO's case for this fall) I say is better, but it shows that the MMO market is even more competitive now. But then again DDO went into F2P mode after 3 years (and I consider that more of a failure than STO), so perhaps this is just Turbine's model?
who knows... why not we discuss this in the discussion section. ( I'm tired of switching sub-forums
If you do subscriptions with no e-mail, then you can just visit your control panel: http://forums.startrekonline.com/usercp.php to see what threads you're subscribed to with new posts since you visited.
The advertisements for the CO LTS with the Mirror Universe uniform did indeed use the word "exclusive".
And as neither definition (exclusive or unique) has any mention of and does not imply time limits and the advertising for products with those words had no mention of a time limit, one cannot assume that the consumer would know that there was such a time limit. An item exclusive or unique to a certain purchase is expected to remain exclusive or unique to that purchase unless a time limit on said items was advertised on the packaging.
In short, what Cryptic has done could be considered False Advertising and could result in a Class Action.
Just saying, maybe Cryptic should stick to using the word Bonus next time.
:cool:
Yup. The word "bonus" would be much more appropriate. I always knew it was a possibility that Cryptic would turn around and re-release these "exclusive" items since they've done sleazier things in the past. But I never would have guessed it would be just 4 months after launch. Oh well.
Funny how fans are defending Cryptic on this point even though other well-known MMO developers use the term "exclusive" to mean never again released. It's obvious that Cryptic is just blowing marketing hot-air all the time. :rolleyes:
I like 'early access'.
As in...
Buy the Super Duper Special Limited 'Spawn of Sami' Edition of Days Of Our Lives Online TODAY and gain EARLY ACCESS to elite character traits that will distinguish your character as an authentic Spawn of Sami Brady! You'll also get EARLY ACCESS to the Bo Brady Harley - just like the one Bo Brady rode in the show! Available exclusively at almost all game stores everywhere!
I'd buy that for a dollar. The idea, though, not the example.
But most don't turn around and say:
Very strange... I diced to drop this matter... I am tired of this conflict and I think that we have no chance of doing anything about this.
Indeed. Nice find.
Of course Cryptic's response to that would be...
"We're sorry, but Daeke was incorrect in saying this" ... even though he's a rep for Cryptic. As they've done with the guaranteed closed beta access. Cryptic is just plain lying here, in every direction.
We don't. But we can decide to never give Cryptic another dime and refuse to be fooled by their lies in the future.
/sigh
Well, it has happened at least twice now with Daeke. If he were an employee of a company where I made decisions, I would have to eat his words and honor the promise. After the first time it would have been a casual reprimand. But the following times would be grounds for separation. Is Atari/Cryptic running a company or a circus? In the end, Cryptic isn't being responsible for this, so they're passing on their mistakes directly to the customer. :rolleyes:
Didn't Daeke get sacked?
I hope that this matter never dies, I feel very sad that my Borg, is no longer a exclusive object.
Here is my story:
I am a huge star trek voyager fan, therefor I sent an e-mail to cryptic support before I bought a third copy of the game and asked them if they could grant me a Borg officer.
I told them that I am a huge fan an that I bought 2 copies of the game both the standard an the deluxe edition and the lifetime subscription.
The answer was that even if they wanted to they could not grant me a Borg officer, because they were not available any more. They told me that I could play the liberated Borg character instead.
So I bought a third copy of the game to get that Borg officer.
I paid a lot of money for this and because I was a lifetime member I could not use the 30 days of game time.
I was very proud of my Borg office, I showed her off in missions. You can call me an idiot if you want but it was a bit of a status symbol to have that Borg officer, it was exclusive and it felt like my own.
Because I am a star trek voyager fan I needed a "seven" in my bridge crew.
You still have it. Noone has taken it away from You. Does Your enjoyment only comes from depriving others from having ???
I pre-ordered tons of boxes to get stuff too. Connie, Borg BO, uniforms etc. Still I'm happy for others being able to get them as well plus I still have mine and enjoy them.
It gives me no satisfaction or pleassure to go "na na na , look what i have, You cant have it, na na na." :cool:
I have two different pre-order bonuses, including the Borg BO, and i'm all fine and dandy with this.
Since they did nothing to 'correct' what Daeke said concerning exclusives on any occasion, I can only assume he did not post incorrectly.
Because of this, we can only make guesses as to why they let him go. But he still said what he said as Community manager, and they never said it was incorrect.
It would seem they did quite a bit to correct the mistakes he made.
Case in point, he was incorrect about what he said regarding the mirror universe uniforms? How did Cryptic let the fans know this? GM_Destra made a post about the mirror universe uniforms being added to the C-Store. Proving that yes, Daeke was incorrect. What he said was wrong. How do we know this? Because if you click into the C-Store, you'll see the uniforms there. Uniforms Daeke said wouldn't be there. But are there. Because Daeke was incorrect.
Shhhhhh. Don't tell anyone in this forum. Supposedly Cryptic is a bunch of liars because Daeke said the Mirror Universe uniforms would never be put up for sale on the C-Store.
Daeke, who said this, was obviously the "correct" one here. And Cryptic, who pointed out more than once that Daeke was incorrect on other topics, and who went ahead on put this uniform on the C-Store, despite what Daeke said back when Daeke still worked for the company ... when he sometimes said things that were incorrect, and may have said enough incorrect things to maybe lose a job.
No ... it's Cryptic's fault. All their fault. Cause Daeke said ... and that's carved in stone.
That has to be the worst argument you ever made. You're off your game tonight.
If Daeke said something wrong back then, they were under obligation to correct it back then. When it was for sale. Since they did not, then one must assume what he said was correct, and people made their purchases accordingly. Going against what was said back then currently is another thing entirely, and exactly the point people are making.
If Daeke said incorrect things, that doesn't remove Cryptic's responsibility to correct them at the time they were said. Because his job was specifically to relay information to the customer. If they failed to do so, they have an obligation to the customers who were mislead by those words.
You are right about this.
Now I will try to put all of this behind me, but many people feel that they have been betrayed by this even if you don't.
Oh my goodness. I have rarely seen logic twisted into a pretzel like this outside of FOX and MSNBC. Making the "correction" 10 months after the fact is hardly relevant. That's called "Changing Policy" of "Changing Our Minds" or something similar.
That Daeke may or may not have made a mistake on something else is irrelevant.
That Deake is not with the company and how he left is irrelevant.
I'll apologize in advance if you've already done so, but unless you can show where someone from Cryptic, at the time of the CO LTS promotion last year posted a correction, Deake's announcement stands with Cryptic's tacit approval.
Superchum is such a smart guy he voices my opinion and the summary of the facts so well, I only need to post that I agree with him.
/ signed and agreed
Stormshade did make a post. About Daeke being incorrect. About something he said about the Champions Online LIfetime Sub.
And here it is
It's not about the uniforms. It's about the far more popular (at the time) Closed Beta access.
Can you (or anyone for that matter) show me where someone from Cryptic, at the time of the CO LTS promotion last year posted a correction about the Mirror Universe Uniforms being unavailable without the purchase of that subscription?
Check a thread called Champions offer look for posts by Rekhan the marketing guy, he says at around the time of the offer they will consider when the MU uniforms will be offered again if the market dictates so.
This was due to many, many community members that were unhappy with the Champions offer.
Rekhan also explained that the exclusive was to the STO community not to the Champions offer.
Best thing to do. After all it's a game meant to have fun. This is not the end of the world.
There are way more important issues out there to get a banner and protest about. Like enviromental issues. Poverty etc.