Well... I'm really hard-pressed to believe that being vocal is a bad thing unless you're someone like ...
But I think this post was designed because there are someone's like ...
(I don't want to name names, as that's not a good thing to do. But, I am trying to point out that Atomic made this post as a reaction to exactly what you just mentioned. The "Someones Like" if you will).
But I think this post was designed because there are someone's like ...
(I don't want to name names, as that's not a good thing to do. But, I am trying to point out that Atomic made this post as a reaction to exactly what you just mentioned. The "Someones Like" if you will).
Search for "bonus" which appears on page 2. The bonus is actually for out performing revenue targets for CO and STO combined. There's two payout periods, the first scheduled for August of this year. The bonus may have something to do with the contractual launch date but I think it's more than likely CBS since they put up with Perpetual's vaporware for so long.
You're right that Atari acquired Cryptic specifically for their ability to quickly develop a MMO with a reduced budget and reduced resources. Cryptic uses that and their proprietary game engine which facilitates this to market themselves. Jack Emmert also mentioned how quickly STO would be finished in Vegas 2008.
There's nothing really wrong with this business wise... *if* that model fit the demand. What went wrong is CBS, Atari and Cryptic underestimated the response to STO. This is proven during Closed Beta where they simply were overwhelmed by the numbers of people who had access. Plans were changed for CB purchasers so the servers wouldn't be overloaded. Then at open beta the test servers had to be converted into live servers, etc. We know the story.
Cryptic is now the little engine that could. I don't believe they are evil people who don't care about Star Trek and who just want to grab our money so they can go onto their next MMO. They were faced with a difficult situation given their size, the overwhelming demand and the grand scope of the Star Trek IP.
They had to launch under contractual agreement. Simply put... They bit off more than they could chew. It explains everything from no TOS mini skirt at launch to an undone Klingon faction. Everything people have been ranting and raving for they want to do but didn't have the time & resources for.
This "minimal resource required" business model continues. Cryptic has lost plenty of subs (some claim a hemorrhage) over them not being able to meet player demands for features and content. I think it's maybe not a hemorrhage but certainly more than that "it's normal for MMOs to loose subs after launch" argument.
I believe they are doing their very best but most everything has to be implemented on a triage basis. I think they are honestly busting their nuggets not only for us players but also so they can show Atari and CBS that they are up to this challenge. If people understand this maybe they would be more understanding.
That being said, I still understand people who are upset about STO. After all, corners were cut to get the game launched. Advertised features are still not available or were made available much later than anticipated. The irate customer is not at fault here. Some understanding should be given to that angry person too, especially those who are staying to fight for the features they want.
I'm quoting in full your response for truth. Firstly, THANK you for digging up that article. I would have sworn that there was another such location such as their fiscal statement that confirmed that the targets had to be met within a given amount of time, but I am not definitely sure.
Regardless, your assessment was outstanding given the consideration and factors circumstances you put forth. Very well done. You are right, they bit off far more than they could chew. Side note, I just looked at my battery life, and I still have 5 hours left... GREAT computer woot. Anyway, continuing...
The better thing for *us* would have been for Cryptic to realize that this would be far too much for them to handle. But let's be honest... even if I ran a small studio, and I somehow winding up getting the rights to the game, there is no WAY I would want to give it up selflessly even if I knew someone else could make it better.
I think it might be a good idea for the lot of us who are dissatisfied with this game to be "okay" with taking a break. Stepping away and coming back when things are more up to par. I say this specifically relating to disgruntled lifetime subscribers. Unfortunately... it may be the case, that Cryptic at the very least needs the current base of monthly subscribers to sustain themselves. What with settling at 100k subscribers with the last official announcement, and with a continued perceivable loss of game population, I'd say that it might be reasonable to assume that we have already sunk below their "minimum target population".
This boils down to people paying the "bare minimum" to sustain this game. That means no surplus for a growing development team and extra grand features on the horizon. People will have to make a decision. They need to decide whether they are going to stick it out and hope that Cryptic delivers on their word.... or simply take their business elsewhere and not look back.
The other thing is...people (including myself) need to realize this magical metamorphosis isn't going to happen over night. In fact, it may take a LONG time, provided that the project survives this long.
This all could be simple a series of unfortunate events. One thing that I do want to specifically counter, or at least bring up for consideration Mirror-Master is that you do not necessarily see them as evil money grabbing schemers. To be honest, I don't know what to think.
Given their propensity to fumble in fiascos and cook up debacles seemingly left and right, I wonder at their business management and marketing side. Are people so easily worked up because of the overall disappointment with the game (this can't be so, because I'm seeing more and more "fanboys" turn into skeptics. they STARted loving Cryptic and STO), or it because they really lack wisdom in their planning and communications? I've stated before, they need to either hire someone, or fire someone to fix this problem (although, the team seems pretty thin at the moment anyway)
And with regards specifically with people's perception of them...well... the C-Store is starting to become a point of contention for me. And as many people have echoed... it seems that QUITE a lot of what is getting designed and developed ends up as a locked away goodie.
Because your complaint is based on the faulty premise that this thing is going to be good. And it isn't.
That's not what my complaint is based on, and your speculation that it will be inferior is just as speculative as saying that it will be balanced or that it will uberpwn everything.
That's not what my complaint is based on, and your speculation that it will be inferior is just as speculative as saying that it will be balanced or that it will uberpwn everything.
My speculation is based on in game mechanics. And on in-game examples of other items of that nature.
Yours is based on what the thing did in a show.
Here's a great example. The Red Matter device. It was so powerful in the Abrams film it helped destroy Vulcan.
DISCLAIMER: This is not a flame bait thread. So if possible please limit responses to a constructive analysis of the post and or information/opinions of all posters.
I got to looking back at Dstahl's posts from today and yesterday in this section and I got the feeling that he was conveying a "vibe" if you will. One akin to a candy sweet tart. While some of his posts had a hint of comedic intent, the almost felt like they were flavored with a tad of sarcastic angst.
So, that got me to thinking that possibly with all this outpouring of anger and frustration that we have had over the RAF we might have gone a bit too far. Now, I recognize that some people don't care if we (as a community) have gone too far in our push back. Those folks aren't going to take this thread seriously anyway, I doubt.
Allow me to explain. Some of us have been here since the beginning. Yadda Yadda Yadda old timers, that sort of thing. In that time we have had Salegate. Lifergate, etc. Honestly, too many gates for me to remember them all. Some I cared about and some I didn't. Now, we have referralgate. In each case, there has been two parties, us and Cryptic/Atari. (Although I blame salegate on Atari not Cryptic). So in effect, we have created or they have created, depending on your point of view, a us verses them mentality so to speak.
I can't think of any manner is which that mentality is a good thing. I would tend to think it is actually a bad thing. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying don't tell Cryptic how you feel about a certain action or elements of gameplay etc. I am also not suggesting that we flower them with roses and hugs either. All I am saying is that after Dstahl told us he went to the CEO about this RAF program and that it wasn't going to change. Maybe, just maybe we should have accepted that we were not going to succeed in our desire to have it changed.
Personally, I don't think laying the blame on anyone is helpful in this case, as to be honest the only people who will really suffer is us the community.
Just wanted to share these thoughts with you.
I think you are entirely correct. I know that in the DP kerfluffle I didn't exactly make the best showing, and I've tried to pull back from the dramatic posts that rail at the reps. ("How's My Posting? 1-800-NOT-FUNNY.") I admit I hadn't thought that the coders and other folks there would be affected, but it does stand to reason.
To be honest, normally I would say that I couldn't care less what the people whose names end in 'C*O' think; I'm too populist that way. ^_^ But TRIBBLE rolls downhill, which means that if they get torqued from uprisings in the forums, then the middle guys get it from both ends.
Now, I am not saying we should not speak up when we see something we don't like. We always have that right as paying customers. But there are ways to express dissatisfaction without it trying to turn it into the virtual equivalent of the October Revolution. This might be something we want to work on.
That I am not sure if anyone has mentioned yet or not.
But perhaps one of the reasons why this has purportedly gone over board, is because Cryptic was decidedly silent on the issue. We seemingly raised our voices in unison... and Cryptic "supposedly being a developer who actively listens to their userbase" gave us no feedback.
Dstahl said "management is aware of this thread"... but thats it. We didn't get a "we're changing it" or "we're sticking with the plan", etc. Instead we got a "acknowledge receipt of message" (500 credits for whoever gets the reference).
I wrote a post on this subject in the past regarding different styles of developer interaction. Here is the link ::digs it out of the archives and dusts it off::
Cryptic is cryptically somewhere "in the middle" and it isn't working out to their favor so much. Oh well, we gotta give them a break. Have a beer! (or Cosmo if you prefer).
i'd like to point out that while the forums are insanely active with rage, i tried bringing the referal program disuccsion in game, via both my factions on either side, talking in sol space dock, and qonos.... 95% of the people who replied asked #1 what's a galaxy-x, #2 we have a referal program? how does it work? and the other 5% said they didn't care either way...and 2 people that knew about it said they liked the idea and 1 person spent 3 post swear about how much of a bad idea it is...... so the results in game show a vastly different result then on the forums.. people either a) weren't overly aware of it b) didn't care either way or c) didn't care enough to voice their opinion... which just goes to show that the minority here is the forums, like all the reasonably logic people have been saying all along...
also i'd like to point out how far the game has come in 3 months, imagine how far it will be in another 3 months... give it 5 months and your friends will be begging for a referal from you, so it won't be very hard to get referals....
personally, i think the forums are just filled with people who would rather whine about the game then play
or, the few of us, who (like me ) can't play at a particular time do to w/e reason, and so instead we browse the forums ( though i find these people tend to be the logically reasonable people )
But perhaps one of the reasons why this has purportedly gone over board, is because Cryptic was decidedly silent on the issue. We seemingly raised our voices in unison... and Cryptic "supposedly being a developer who actively listens to their userbase" gave us no feedback.
Dstahl said "management is aware of this thread"... but thats it. We didn't get a "we're changing it" or "we're sticking with the plan", etc. Instead we got a "acknowledge receipt of message" (500 credits for whoever gets the reference).
Not correct. Dstahl said the did talk to the Powers that Be on the issue and that the offer would not be changing. He hasn't been silent at all on it.
(Edit: I'll save you the trouble of looking for it)
Well... if its any consolation... I've made a huge stink about the Galaxy X threads in internal meetings and have even talked directly to the the CEO John personally about it and for now it remains an exclusive reward for the challenging task of recruiting 5 friends.
But perhaps one of the reasons why this has purportedly gone over board, is because Cryptic was decidedly silent on the issue. We seemingly raised our voices in unison... and Cryptic "supposedly being a developer who actively listens to their userbase" gave us no feedback.
That's not always going to get results. Sometimes things are going to take place in this game that entire groups of players do not like.
A polished TRIBBLE is a polished TRIBBLE and people have a right to be upset about it.
If the people who polished that TRIBBLE are upset by the critics then they did not polish hard enough.
Angry customers aim that anger at whoever they have access to whether they are the right ones to be angry with or not. It isn't the customers fault if its aimed at the wrong person.
The Devs/Forum jockeys should, and in most cases do, know this.
I get the feeling that the devs that regularly interact with the forum community know quite well what the problems with the game are but imagine if every time someone got all flamey at them they said it's not my fault its (insert upper management name here) fault.
They would be right out of a job pretty quickly.
The true problem is they started listening to the players. No really. Of course they probably wouldn't have made this mistake if they had finished STO prior to release but since the game started bleeding subscriptions due to the lack of content they scrambled and unfortunately focused on what the players were asking for that they could just hammer out really quickly.
There is a difference between listening to the players and letting them hijack your development schedule.
I blame Cryptic/Atari for the initial state of the game. I blame the players for the "content" released since then that the bulk of which has been useless fluff with hardly any game-play content.
Dstahl said "management is aware of this thread"... but thats it. We didn't get a "we're changing it" or "we're sticking with the plan", etc. Instead we got a "acknowledge receipt of message" (500 credits for whoever gets the reference).
My speculation is based on in game mechanics. And on in-game examples of other items of that nature.
Yours is based on what the thing did in a show.
Here's a great example. The Red Matter device. It was so powerful in the Abrams film it helped destroy Vulcan.
In this game?
Yeah ... it falls a tad short of that.
o_0
Mine is based on the statements of dstahl alone, that it will have a unique combat power. It doesn't matter how overpowered, underpowered, or sideways powered it is, as I have repeatedly explained. If the forward cannon turned out to be as powerful as demonstrated in the show, then I wouldn't be arguing that Cryptic was dishonest, I'd be arguing that they're insane.
Mine is based on the statements of dstahl alone, that it will have a unique combat power. It doesn't matter how overpowered, underpowered, or sideways powered it is, as I have repeatedly explained. If the forward cannon turned out to be as powerful as demonstrated in the show, then I wouldn't be arguing that Cryptic was dishonest, I'd be arguing that they're insane.
Unique combat power ONLY matters if it's good.
A unique piece of fecal matter is not anything anyone cares about.
When it turns out to be the handicap it is going to be ... all you're going to see is complaint threads. About how weak it is.
Because people want a big gun. And they're going to get a red matter device. My plasma shooting tactical console is utterly unique. It's also not anything I bother equipping after Lt levels because it's not powerful, and causes more trouble than it's worth.
I think you are right, and I've had this sneaking suspicion that things are not all rosy at the studio (in fact i heard they are not, by someone associated with them). There are in fact a lot of things I want to say, but don't for the simple consideration that they may be just as disheartened with the way things turned out as we are... but for which are beyond their control.
Not to mention the fact that there have been several high profile people who have left the company (Awen, Gozer, Daeke, Shane Hensley, and a few nameless others that have posted here and there) and some not so high profile people who have made their way to the forums to post their thoughts and how they wished things had gone differently.
There very well may be a slight sense of exhaustion on their part. As I've said before... they are forced into this position of constantly churning out light content at a fast rate because they HAVE to in order to keep the subscriber based interested. Instead of giving themselves time to breathe and a length of time to work on something grand and big on the horizon they are forced to work harder and more quickly. And for their efforst, they see a bleeding subscriber base, and a consistently unhappy forum community.
I for one will be cutting back to give them time and a break. A smart idea, or a clever one, isn't necessarily a wise idea. And I wish they would consider more carefully (or hire me, as I can work magic). While it might be wise to say to keep fighting... on the other hand I personally am getting tired. Espescially after the recent spate of being targeted and discriminated against by Phoxe... I just don't feel inclined to bring constructive ideas to the table any more.
You are reading to much into it. Most games shed developers after the game has launched. This is a problem Cryptic needs to deal with if they want to rush games and consider them done at live. They should treat their people well and keep their developers on staff for at least the first year. This goes for all MMO's where they shed people like water after a few months of launch.
Just so you know, most live game forums tend to be filled with youthful vitriol and massive angst spilled everywhere. Though I believe you knew that and were simply throwing barbs.
honestly People, Come on this early into the launch of a game is no place to be bytching. Give it up. Cryptic has done a great job. and if you had an ounce of respect for anything you would focus on that. Get over yourselves and understand that as a game grows it gets better. it does not come out perfect in the begining. Wow was deplorable when it launched graphic crashes, glitches visible in every city missions that never complted. powers that didnt work. it got better over time. same with EQ, CoH, Conan, Pirates of the Burrning Sea. the thing that makes all of these games great is that they have a drive to get better and people that will say hey there are problems but here are some recomendations to fix them. but understand when the planning of the updates and patches comes that not every issue they reccomend will be addressed imediately. or some will not be addressed at all as it is not a priority.
things that should be done in a game on a scale of priority are going to be
Graphics issues. - Bugs ect
Mission Issues - Bugs and incomplete missions.
Content for Lower ranks as the new players are the life blood of any game
content for mid rank and high ranks this takes time the alpha testing stage is twice as long as any beta
additional options - *ships/mounts/races*
fluf - non essential content. crafting, armor, ect additional toys basicly.
you will see in most updates that you will have a little of everything addressed but they can not address all our issues at once. if you have an idea of how something can be fixed in game write it out logicaly and post it to them. no guarentee that they will take your idea and run with it but if it is written well and works with the scheme of the game it is entirely possible that they will use it.
Patience is a virtue and though my exwife says it is my only virtue atleast it is a virtue that I can be proud of having.
The core of the frustration comes from Cryptic offering something only by referral when quite the many people know that despite how much they might enjoy the game, they can't in good faith pitch something as incomplete as STO to friends who aren't already playing. You got the wall at RA5, a very incomplete Klingon faction etc..
They say it won't change but chances are it might when the program doesn't get results past the 1 self paid recruit to get the holo BO and as long as the player base continues to speak out about it one never knows..
I don't think complaints about a certain ship associated with a referral program are going to break the dev's spirits. In all honesty I can only think of one post where a couple of devs seemed genuinely offended, and it was a fairly scathing sarcastic comment. Overall they seem to take the positive feedback with the negative (constructive or otherwise) fairly well.
With that said, I do wonder what kind of transitions are going on behind the scenes. There's been no mention as to whether or not Gozer will be replaced as far as I know. While dstahl is still happily talking about updates through Season 5, it feels more like PR than substance. I suspect it's more a reflection of my own boredom of the game (just got my 2nd character to RA5 last week) and the cynicism prevalent on these boards, as well as the fact that we haven't seen a calendar or Engineering Reports update for a little while now.
Again, I hope that Cryptic realizes that no one would bother posting, or making long-winded tirades if they didn't have feelings for STO.
Most of the people who're angry are fans who feel they've been cheated out of the Star Trek experience they dreamed of. Fact is that no matter what Star Trek Online was, people were always going to be upset about it, because nothing can ever match up to what you dream of.
I just hope that Cryptic keeps on keeping on, because as much as there is wrong with STO, it's the only Star Trek MMO we've got. Chances are that it will forever be the only one we've got, and that is something that I think is worth fighting for.
So no, don't stop complaining, but maybe take a breather once in a while to compliment Cryptic on something they've done that you do like.
this is very true....we are players yes, but we allso have great emmotions to the star trek name title games book comics so on...and we all see what this game could be..
i love this game, i love the fleet members that are around me, we all became very good friends...we had high hopes talking abought the game a year before launch...
if players vent what they think is wrong dont make them a bad players or person just shows there love of the game and there hopes for it....
I can't think of any manner is which that mentality is a good thing. I would tend to think it is actually a bad thing. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying don't tell Cryptic how you feel about a certain action or elements of gameplay etc. I am also not suggesting that we flower them with roses and hugs either.
Agreed...people think Im wierd when I try to use the relationship analogy with respect to the player/dev interaction. But it applies...no mutally supportive relationship propers when the two see each other as the "enemy". No disagreement can be productive if both sides look to only demonize and be-little the other.
Its fine, its expected, its healthy to disagree and have different perspectives...but its all for not if you use that disagreement to raise a flag of opposition and hunker down behind a wall of bitterness, flinging attacks at each other.
...as well as the fact that we haven't seen a calendar or Engineering Reports update for a little while now.
While I can't speak to the Calendar update - I posted in the Engineering Report yesterday that things are for the most part still on track (ie.. some changes) but for the most part features are on track. I'll have a full update later today.
To the OP - from my perspective it was ok to voice opinion over the referral program - and it was discussed several times in executive meetings and it was felt that the reward was worthy of the challenging task. We realize it isn't a cake-walk to recruit 5 friends, which is why the reward was asked to be cool.
And as I've stated elsewhere - the program is really intended for players who are enjoying the game and having fun and want to share their love of the game with their friends. If that isn't you, then the program really isn't designed for you. I don't think it does anyone any good (including the community) to bring people into the game who really don't want to play it in the first place - or to purchase their own subs just to get a reward - it doesn't help the game to do that. What helps the game is finding more people who do enjoy and want to play the game. I know its hard to gather from reading these boards sometimes, but there are quite a few people who do enjoy and love this game.
If that's not you - then I can only assume you're here because you want to make the game better - and I can tell you that the team is working breakneck to get updates into the game so that there is always a flow of new features and content that you've been asking for. If you are here just to cause trouble, then don't be surprised if the mods bounce... because it really just isn't helping.
Whether or not the community went too far is something you'll have to look at personally. From this perspective your concerns were heard, communicated, and responded to.
Is the Galaxy X only going to be available via referral? Probably because that is what it was designed for - but who knows... things can always change.
this is very true....we are players yes, but we allso have great emmotions to the star trek name title games book comics so on...and we all see what this game could be..
i love this game, i love the fleet members that are around me, we all became very good friends...we had high hopes talking abought the game a year before launch...
if players vent what they think is wrong dont make them a bad players or person just shows there love of the game and there hopes for it....
I have to agree with this statement. However, I also agree that the community takes things too far. But then that is also to be expected. The customers are the children... the Developers are the parents. Parents always make mistakes and children have to learn to be respectful. And sometimes..... sometimes.... we will realize that us "children" do not get everything we want.
We realize it isn't a cake-walk to recruit 5 friends, which is why the reward was asked to be cool.
*waves* Hi dstahl. Um... how's that local sports team, eh?
But... yeah. I'm still not feeling good about this part. Something 'cool' is a distinct concept from 'something gameplay-affecting'. You could still get a cool (and unique from any other model if you wanted to make it that way) visual representation of the Galaxy-X's heavy spinal phaser by making that the emission point for dual-beam items equipped to the ship and associating a unique graphical effect with that. With a promotion designed entirely around money changing hands (with the intent being that it not be a single person's money, obviously, but there's nothing stopping that) this still really sets an uncomfortable precedent in my eyes and a progression past the 'just gimmicks' of prior promotions. It makes me feel foolish for vocally supporting cosmetic paid extras on the grounds that things would stop there. Well, I already do because of C-store species, but now I feel it moreso.
Comments
At this point? Meh.
Because your complaint is based on the faulty premise that this thing is going to be good. And it isn't.
But I think this post was designed because there are someone's like ...
(I don't want to name names, as that's not a good thing to do. But, I am trying to point out that Atomic made this post as a reaction to exactly what you just mentioned. The "Someones Like" if you will).
BINGO!
Exactly.
I'm quoting in full your response for truth. Firstly, THANK you for digging up that article. I would have sworn that there was another such location such as their fiscal statement that confirmed that the targets had to be met within a given amount of time, but I am not definitely sure.
Regardless, your assessment was outstanding given the consideration and factors circumstances you put forth. Very well done. You are right, they bit off far more than they could chew. Side note, I just looked at my battery life, and I still have 5 hours left... GREAT computer woot. Anyway, continuing...
The better thing for *us* would have been for Cryptic to realize that this would be far too much for them to handle. But let's be honest... even if I ran a small studio, and I somehow winding up getting the rights to the game, there is no WAY I would want to give it up selflessly even if I knew someone else could make it better.
I think it might be a good idea for the lot of us who are dissatisfied with this game to be "okay" with taking a break. Stepping away and coming back when things are more up to par. I say this specifically relating to disgruntled lifetime subscribers. Unfortunately... it may be the case, that Cryptic at the very least needs the current base of monthly subscribers to sustain themselves. What with settling at 100k subscribers with the last official announcement, and with a continued perceivable loss of game population, I'd say that it might be reasonable to assume that we have already sunk below their "minimum target population".
This boils down to people paying the "bare minimum" to sustain this game. That means no surplus for a growing development team and extra grand features on the horizon. People will have to make a decision. They need to decide whether they are going to stick it out and hope that Cryptic delivers on their word.... or simply take their business elsewhere and not look back.
The other thing is...people (including myself) need to realize this magical metamorphosis isn't going to happen over night. In fact, it may take a LONG time, provided that the project survives this long.
This all could be simple a series of unfortunate events. One thing that I do want to specifically counter, or at least bring up for consideration Mirror-Master is that you do not necessarily see them as evil money grabbing schemers. To be honest, I don't know what to think.
Given their propensity to fumble in fiascos and cook up debacles seemingly left and right, I wonder at their business management and marketing side. Are people so easily worked up because of the overall disappointment with the game (this can't be so, because I'm seeing more and more "fanboys" turn into skeptics. they STARted loving Cryptic and STO), or it because they really lack wisdom in their planning and communications? I've stated before, they need to either hire someone, or fire someone to fix this problem (although, the team seems pretty thin at the moment anyway)
And with regards specifically with people's perception of them...well... the C-Store is starting to become a point of contention for me. And as many people have echoed... it seems that QUITE a lot of what is getting designed and developed ends up as a locked away goodie.
All in all, I wish things were better.
That's not what my complaint is based on, and your speculation that it will be inferior is just as speculative as saying that it will be balanced or that it will uberpwn everything.
My speculation is based on in game mechanics. And on in-game examples of other items of that nature.
Yours is based on what the thing did in a show.
Here's a great example. The Red Matter device. It was so powerful in the Abrams film it helped destroy Vulcan.
In this game?
Yeah ... it falls a tad short of that.
I think you are entirely correct. I know that in the DP kerfluffle I didn't exactly make the best showing, and I've tried to pull back from the dramatic posts that rail at the reps. ("How's My Posting? 1-800-NOT-FUNNY.") I admit I hadn't thought that the coders and other folks there would be affected, but it does stand to reason.
To be honest, normally I would say that I couldn't care less what the people whose names end in 'C*O' think; I'm too populist that way. ^_^ But TRIBBLE rolls downhill, which means that if they get torqued from uprisings in the forums, then the middle guys get it from both ends.
Now, I am not saying we should not speak up when we see something we don't like. We always have that right as paying customers. But there are ways to express dissatisfaction without it trying to turn it into the virtual equivalent of the October Revolution. This might be something we want to work on.
But perhaps one of the reasons why this has purportedly gone over board, is because Cryptic was decidedly silent on the issue. We seemingly raised our voices in unison... and Cryptic "supposedly being a developer who actively listens to their userbase" gave us no feedback.
Dstahl said "management is aware of this thread"... but thats it. We didn't get a "we're changing it" or "we're sticking with the plan", etc. Instead we got a "acknowledge receipt of message" (500 credits for whoever gets the reference).
I wrote a post on this subject in the past regarding different styles of developer interaction. Here is the link ::digs it out of the archives and dusts it off::
Two Kinds of Developer Relations.
Cryptic is cryptically somewhere "in the middle" and it isn't working out to their favor so much. Oh well, we gotta give them a break. Have a beer! (or Cosmo if you prefer).
also i'd like to point out how far the game has come in 3 months, imagine how far it will be in another 3 months... give it 5 months and your friends will be begging for a referal from you, so it won't be very hard to get referals....
personally, i think the forums are just filled with people who would rather whine about the game then play
or, the few of us, who (like me ) can't play at a particular time do to w/e reason, and so instead we browse the forums ( though i find these people tend to be the logically reasonable people )
I have just added a new word to my vocabulary. It is brilliant. Hard to find neologisms this good these days!
Not correct. Dstahl said the did talk to the Powers that Be on the issue and that the offer would not be changing. He hasn't been silent at all on it.
(Edit: I'll save you the trouble of looking for it)
That's not always going to get results. Sometimes things are going to take place in this game that entire groups of players do not like.
I'm going with Zoot on this one.
Angry customers aim that anger at whoever they have access to whether they are the right ones to be angry with or not. It isn't the customers fault if its aimed at the wrong person.
The Devs/Forum jockeys should, and in most cases do, know this.
I get the feeling that the devs that regularly interact with the forum community know quite well what the problems with the game are but imagine if every time someone got all flamey at them they said it's not my fault its (insert upper management name here) fault.
They would be right out of a job pretty quickly.
The true problem is they started listening to the players. No really. Of course they probably wouldn't have made this mistake if they had finished STO prior to release but since the game started bleeding subscriptions due to the lack of content they scrambled and unfortunately focused on what the players were asking for that they could just hammer out really quickly.
There is a difference between listening to the players and letting them hijack your development schedule.
I blame Cryptic/Atari for the initial state of the game. I blame the players for the "content" released since then that the bulk of which has been useless fluff with hardly any game-play content.
"What do you hear?"
o_0
Mine is based on the statements of dstahl alone, that it will have a unique combat power. It doesn't matter how overpowered, underpowered, or sideways powered it is, as I have repeatedly explained. If the forward cannon turned out to be as powerful as demonstrated in the show, then I wouldn't be arguing that Cryptic was dishonest, I'd be arguing that they're insane.
Unique combat power ONLY matters if it's good.
A unique piece of fecal matter is not anything anyone cares about.
When it turns out to be the handicap it is going to be ... all you're going to see is complaint threads. About how weak it is.
Because people want a big gun. And they're going to get a red matter device. My plasma shooting tactical console is utterly unique. It's also not anything I bother equipping after Lt levels because it's not powerful, and causes more trouble than it's worth.
make sure you don't spell it incorrectly then
http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-ker1.htm
You are reading to much into it. Most games shed developers after the game has launched. This is a problem Cryptic needs to deal with if they want to rush games and consider them done at live. They should treat their people well and keep their developers on staff for at least the first year. This goes for all MMO's where they shed people like water after a few months of launch.
Just so you know, most live game forums tend to be filled with youthful vitriol and massive angst spilled everywhere. Though I believe you knew that and were simply throwing barbs.
things that should be done in a game on a scale of priority are going to be
Graphics issues. - Bugs ect
Mission Issues - Bugs and incomplete missions.
Content for Lower ranks as the new players are the life blood of any game
content for mid rank and high ranks this takes time the alpha testing stage is twice as long as any beta
additional options - *ships/mounts/races*
fluf - non essential content. crafting, armor, ect additional toys basicly.
you will see in most updates that you will have a little of everything addressed but they can not address all our issues at once. if you have an idea of how something can be fixed in game write it out logicaly and post it to them. no guarentee that they will take your idea and run with it but if it is written well and works with the scheme of the game it is entirely possible that they will use it.
Patience is a virtue and though my exwife says it is my only virtue atleast it is a virtue that I can be proud of having.
I salute Cryptic on their efforts.
They say it won't change but chances are it might when the program doesn't get results past the 1 self paid recruit to get the holo BO and as long as the player base continues to speak out about it one never knows..
With that said, I do wonder what kind of transitions are going on behind the scenes. There's been no mention as to whether or not Gozer will be replaced as far as I know. While dstahl is still happily talking about updates through Season 5, it feels more like PR than substance. I suspect it's more a reflection of my own boredom of the game (just got my 2nd character to RA5 last week) and the cynicism prevalent on these boards, as well as the fact that we haven't seen a calendar or Engineering Reports update for a little while now.
this is very true....we are players yes, but we allso have great emmotions to the star trek name title games book comics so on...and we all see what this game could be..
i love this game, i love the fleet members that are around me, we all became very good friends...we had high hopes talking abought the game a year before launch...
if players vent what they think is wrong dont make them a bad players or person just shows there love of the game and there hopes for it....
Agreed...people think Im wierd when I try to use the relationship analogy with respect to the player/dev interaction. But it applies...no mutally supportive relationship propers when the two see each other as the "enemy". No disagreement can be productive if both sides look to only demonize and be-little the other.
Its fine, its expected, its healthy to disagree and have different perspectives...but its all for not if you use that disagreement to raise a flag of opposition and hunker down behind a wall of bitterness, flinging attacks at each other.
While I can't speak to the Calendar update - I posted in the Engineering Report yesterday that things are for the most part still on track (ie.. some changes) but for the most part features are on track. I'll have a full update later today.
To the OP - from my perspective it was ok to voice opinion over the referral program - and it was discussed several times in executive meetings and it was felt that the reward was worthy of the challenging task. We realize it isn't a cake-walk to recruit 5 friends, which is why the reward was asked to be cool.
And as I've stated elsewhere - the program is really intended for players who are enjoying the game and having fun and want to share their love of the game with their friends. If that isn't you, then the program really isn't designed for you. I don't think it does anyone any good (including the community) to bring people into the game who really don't want to play it in the first place - or to purchase their own subs just to get a reward - it doesn't help the game to do that. What helps the game is finding more people who do enjoy and want to play the game. I know its hard to gather from reading these boards sometimes, but there are quite a few people who do enjoy and love this game.
If that's not you - then I can only assume you're here because you want to make the game better - and I can tell you that the team is working breakneck to get updates into the game so that there is always a flow of new features and content that you've been asking for. If you are here just to cause trouble, then don't be surprised if the mods bounce... because it really just isn't helping.
Whether or not the community went too far is something you'll have to look at personally. From this perspective your concerns were heard, communicated, and responded to.
Is the Galaxy X only going to be available via referral? Probably because that is what it was designed for - but who knows... things can always change.
I have to agree with this statement. However, I also agree that the community takes things too far. But then that is also to be expected. The customers are the children... the Developers are the parents. Parents always make mistakes and children have to learn to be respectful. And sometimes..... sometimes.... we will realize that us "children" do not get everything we want.
*waves* Hi dstahl. Um... how's that local sports team, eh?
But... yeah. I'm still not feeling good about this part. Something 'cool' is a distinct concept from 'something gameplay-affecting'. You could still get a cool (and unique from any other model if you wanted to make it that way) visual representation of the Galaxy-X's heavy spinal phaser by making that the emission point for dual-beam items equipped to the ship and associating a unique graphical effect with that. With a promotion designed entirely around money changing hands (with the intent being that it not be a single person's money, obviously, but there's nothing stopping that) this still really sets an uncomfortable precedent in my eyes and a progression past the 'just gimmicks' of prior promotions. It makes me feel foolish for vocally supporting cosmetic paid extras on the grounds that things would stop there. Well, I already do because of C-store species, but now I feel it moreso.