I stand by my outrage that the Galaxy-X will have unique game effects. I feel that this marks yet another step towards turning this game into a pay-for-power cash store MMO despite the endless blandishments to the contrary before release.
I think if they add a cloak, that it won't be exclusive to that ship. That cloaking on the fed side will be something that gets added as the game expands. So that ship will just be the teaser of what's to come.
As far as the super phaser cannon wave motion gun death star beam it can shoot?
That will either be a horrible weapon that's forced onto a cruiser that can't use it very well. Or it will be something akin to the red matter device. Either way, it will handicap the ship.
I'm not trying to offend you. So I'll try to be a bit clearer I guess?
I read your post and what I thought you were saying was that you felt like you were being over-moderated? I am guessing you maybe felt you picked up some infraction points for things that you don't think you deserved them for?
My point was merely to state that ... I've seen much more heavy handed moderation on the Champions Forums for things. I've seen friends and strangers get moderated for things that really were surprising to me.
I can understand that you feel the way you do. No one likes to have their threads close. Or moved around. Or any other things the moderators might do to you. (It's really hard to talk about this without basically discussing their moderation policies, ugh).
So I understand how you feel.
I just ... have seen them be alot more strict with the Champions posters. And I've seen the Champions posters be a lot more deserving of said strictness.
I think discussion in these forums is actually much looser than it was there. And I know some folks think there's a lot of negativity here. But I see a lot more constructive back and forth here.
In my time over there, there was really only one developer ... the one working on their crafting system ... who would get into extensive discussions with the players. Answer questions fast. And give a lot of background info on the process.
It wasn't until Daeke was gone that I saw detailed posts from devs on their test forums about how they test things.
And I haven't been back since January, but I never saw them have anything as useful as the engineering reports here.
In an effort to give a personal anecdote ... I had something like 5 infractions in my time there. I felt 4 of them were ridiculous.
I have 0 here.
My personality hasn't changed. I still post the same way I did there.
I just think there's more reasonable discussion taking place here. I understand some folks might think I'm crazy for saying that.
EDIT: And just to clarify, I mention Daeke ONLy to give a frame of reference for time. My post does not blame that person for the things I saw or experienced. And in fact, the policy shift to be more open was happening with or without that person. So I'm not naming that person for any other reason than to give a point of time for when things changed. Up until that big hubub, I really only saw the crafting forum get fast, and extensive, dev interaction.
Ah, I see. I misunderstood you then, and I apologize for that. I see what you were saying.
Perhaps things are changing here. Since being hyper-active on these forums since the end of 2008, I've never once received so much as a warning for anything I've posted... until Phoxe stepped in.
And yes, we can't discuss the specifics, but needless to say... I feel Phoxe is abusing his position, and have sufficient reason to believe so. As for the CO forums... perhaps they needed to be super ban hammeresque... because those forums were FIERY. Can't blame them though, that product was less than stellar from what I have consistently heard/read/seen, not to mention all the fiascos and debacles they went through. Poor them (and poor Cryptic).
I think the argument over the RAF Enterprise. Went way to far. I think that it's strange to see that many people go crazy over that ship. I remember seeing it on the show and thought it was magnificent.
After seeing it later it was just in an alternate universe. For less than 30 seconds. They just duplicated the nacelle and pylon. Then welded it to the Enterprise model. Instead of designing a futuristic Enterprise. I really don't see that ship as all that iconic. If it had been in more episodes maybe. That was a good TNG show.
When I first saw the ship. I wanted it. When I saw I had to get 5 players to subscribe for one month. I knew there was no way I could get it. I don't believe because I subscribe to a MMO. I should be entitled to get every item in the game. I can also see why they don't want thousands flying around since it was only in one show for under thirty seconds.
It should be an us vs them mentality. Cryptic and Atari shouldn't get away with what they've done, and people continuing to play nice, playing along, and worst of all keep subscribing, are doing great harm.
Us vs. Them? Get away with what they've done? Doing great harm? ...Are you serious about any of that?:rolleyes:
If you like the game subscribe and play it. If you dont, then dont. Its not a war. Its paid entertainment. If you're not entertained, pay for something else instead. But if someone is enjoying the game and continues to subscribe, there's nothing wrong with that.
I agree with most of the posts in this thread. I often see two valid feedback categories on the forums: 1) "Let's kick their f'n TRIBBLE until they change this" And 2) "We love the game but we want this to change, here's why".
Category 1 is perceived as "crazies with pitchforks" by those in Category 2.
Category 2 is perceived as "fanboys, dev pets and sycophants" by those in Category 1.
In reality they are both on the same team, trying to make STO better in their own ways. But their approaches and mindsets are so extreme they will almost never recognize this.
Devs, on the other hand, are weary of having to sift through the flames of those in Category 1. You can see this in recent comments by Dstahl who went to bat for us over the Galaxy X (thank you btw!). And now the mods will be filing all feedback about marketing offers into a "special" more "organized" section of the forums. Uh huh...
Although I almost never post against people in Category 1 (because I too am passionate about certain things) I think the over-the-top negativity is starting to take it's toll. Keep fighting for what you believe in but pick your battles and consider how the devs might perceive any irate posts because more than likely they are starting to fall on deaf ears.
I think the argument over the RAF Enterprise. Went way to far. I think that it's strange to see that many people go crazy over that ship. I remember seeing it on the show and thought it was magnificent.
After seeing it later it was just in an alternate universe. For less than 30 seconds. They just duplicated the nacelle and pylon. Then welded it to the Enterprise model. Instead of designing a futuristic Enterprise. I really don't see that ship as all that iconic. If it had been in more episodes maybe. That was a good TNG show.
When I first saw the ship. I wanted it. When I saw I had to get 5 players to subscribe for one month. I knew there was no way I could get it. I don't believe because I subscribe to a MMO. I should be entitled to get every item in the game. I can also see why they don't want thousands flying around since it was only in one show for under thirty seconds.
I think the RAF riot went to far.
This is a bit of a tangent but I hope I have a point ... heh.
So, like I was trying to think about what I would get that emotional or passionate about in terms of a reward put into a system I knew I couldn't achieve.
I admit ... I look at the RAF and think ... yeah, I can't get 5 people to do that. And it's absurd to buy 5 separate accounts.
So there's no way I could achieve that goal. But I look at the reward and am not interested.
How would I feel if it were a reward I wanted?
Well I'm a uniform FREAK! I absolutely go crazy for uniform variations.
I thought what if the reward was the uniform from that future time?
And realized I'd still not bother.
I think it's an ok uni, but I'm not worried I don't have it.
Then I rememberd ... one of the races the devs want to make playable is Deltans.
What if the reward for the RAF were ... the Motion Picture Uniforms?
It should be an us vs them mentality. Cryptic and Atari shouldn't get away with what they've done, and people continuing to play nice, playing along, and worst of all keep subscribing, are doing great harm.
Regardless of what some of you think right now, this most likely isn't the last mmo you're going to try, and unless you want most mmos being rushed out messes like we've seen the last two or three years that instantly hemorrhage their populations like STO has, you need to start taking a stand.
An us vs. them mentality is almost never a good idea. Rushed mmos that instantly lose their subscriber bases are, amazingly, less productive than ones that keep their sub bases. No mmo ever has gone into production witth the mindset of "We'll get a bunch of money on the box sales to cover our losses and then hope that we keep enough subs to keep the servers up".
The developers want this game to be as good as we do. You think they don't play games? There are a few people there who I know love Mass Effect 2, they've played WoW and other AAA MMOs. If anything it should be us and the developers against Atari. But then it might not even be their fault because they're doing really badly right now and they need every last bit of cash they can get, Atari made some bad choices and now STO is paying for them.
I stand by my outrage that the Galaxy-X will have unique game effects. I feel that this marks yet another step towards turning this game into a pay-for-power cash store MMO despite the endless blandishments to the contrary before release.
I would have left a long time ago. But with their refusal to give me a refund for my LTS... well... I'll stick around give them the feedback I am entitled too, since I am technically a "paid up customer".
To get that Galaxy X squidheadx... you have to essentially earn Cryptic $220. That is how much the Galaxy X is worth to them [5 boxes @ 40% discount ( 29.99x5) +5 months subs (14.99x5) = roughly $220].
I think if they add a cloak, that it won't be exclusive to that ship. That cloaking on the fed side will be something that gets added as the game expands. So that ship will just be the teaser of what's to come.
As far as the super phaser cannon wave motion gun death star beam it can shoot?
That will either be a horrible weapon that's forced onto a cruiser that can't use it very well. Or it will be something akin to the red matter device. Either way, it will handicap the ship.
I wouldn't worry if I were you.
It's not sufficient to me that it be balanced (although the muddled descriptions don't fill me with confidence that it will be, and speculation that it will be is just the same as speculation it won't be). It's selling off gameplay choices. It's indistinct from selling off different BO power options or weapons types or, of course, actual different ship classes rather than skins. The sort of thing to be expected in a game you pay for piecemeal that doesn't have a subscription.
I agree with most of the posts in this thread. I often see two valid feedback categories on the forums: 1) "Let's kick their f'n TRIBBLE until they change this" And 2) "We love the game but we want this to change, here's why".
Category 1 is perceived as "crazies with pitchforks" by those in Category 2.
Category 2 is perceived as "fanboys, dev pets and sycophants" by those in Category 1.
In reality they are both on the same team, trying to make STO better in their own ways. But their approaches and mindsets are so extreme they will almost never recognize this.
Devs, on the other hand, are weary of having to sift through the flames of those in Category 1. You can see this in recent comments by Dstahl who went to bat for us over the Galaxy X (thank you btw!). And now the mods will be filing all feedback about marketing offers into a "special" more "organized" section of the forums. Uh huh...
Although I almost never post against people in Category 1 (because I too am passionate about certain things) I think the over-the-top negativity is starting to take it's toll. Keep fighting for what you believe in but pick your battles and consider how the devs might perceive any irate posts because more than likely they are starting to fall on deaf ears.
Blunt and to the point while being sane and rational with good advice. I commend you.
This is a bit of a tangent but I hope I have a point ... heh.
So, like I was trying to think about what I would get that emotional or passionate about in terms of a reward put into a system I knew I couldn't achieve.
I admit ... I look at the RAF and think ... yeah, I can't get 5 people to do that. And it's absurd to buy 5 separate accounts.
So there's no way I could achieve that goal. But I look at the reward and am not interested.
How would I feel if it were a reward I wanted?
Well I'm a uniform FREAK! I absolutely go crazy for uniform variations.
I thought what if the reward was the uniform from that future time?
And realized I'd still not bother.
I think it's an ok uni, but I'm not worried I don't have it.
Then I rememberd ... one of the races the devs want to make playable is Deltans.
What if the reward for the RAF were ... the Motion Picture Uniforms?
I found my catalyst.
I'd be freaking out because those I'd want.
I am a uniform freak also. I bought the retail collectors edition for the TNG uniforms. I think all the uniforms should have been offered for free. I don't think that is to much to ask of them. I bought the collectors edition for those. I think uniforms should be free. So players can show support for their favorite show or movie.
The liberated Borg and the Alternate Enterprise should be exclusives. In my opinion they shouldn't be common. Since they were never common in the series.
It's not sufficient to me that it be balanced (although the muddled descriptions don't fill me with confidence that it will be, and speculation that it will be is just the same as speculation it won't be). It's selling off gameplay choices. It's indistinct from selling off different BO power options or weapons types or, of course, actual different ship classes rather than skins. The sort of thing to be expected in a game you pay for piecemeal that doesn't have a subscription.
I don't quite see it the way you do. If they're FORCING a cannon into a forward weapon slot on a cruiser ... that's not selling off a gameplay choice.
That's ...
1- Something you can currently equip.
2- A bad choice. Because it doesn't work well on a cruiser.
3- Not something to be upset over as the superior gameplay choice will be to fly something else.
As far as the rumored cloaking device goes ... if they preview it with this, but then make it available to other ships at that tier or beyond ... then it's moot. It becomes the norm once the game makes it standard. I can live with the paltry few people who have that ship getting this BEFORE me, if it eventually just becomes the norm. And a federation cloak? Is something they'd most likely do that with.
So ... in short ... Cannon ... BAD IDEA, because it's going to suck!
Cloak? Not a worry, because if they give it to one fed ship, they'll give it to the rest.
I am a uniform freak also. I bought the retail collectors edition for the TNG uniforms. I think all the uniforms should have been offered for free. I don't think that is to much to ask of them. I bought the collectors edition for those. I think uniforms should be free. So players can show support for their favorite show or movie.
The liberated Borg and the Alternate Enterprise should be exclusives. In my pinion they shouldn't be common. Since they were never common in the series.
I wish the standard unis, like TNG and DS9 were free. Or offered in a magazine. Or something like that. Because I agree with the sentiment being expressed in posts like yours. They're unis from the show. So many more players should have access to them.
I am, however a freak. For unis. And bought a CE and now have the TNG, DS9, TOS and Khan uniforms. I do not recommend that path. And would support a much more player friendly path. And oddly enough, since I am aware of my problem, I wouldn't feel resentment if they made TNG unis and DS9 unis easy to get tomorrow or next week or whatever. I'd just be happy to see more folks in them.
So ... in short ... Cannon ... BAD IDEA, because it's going to suck!
Cloak? Not a worry, because if they give it to one fed ship, they'll give it to the rest.
We already know the cannon on the Galaxy-X is going to be something distinct from the standard cannon weapons.
You're speculating as much as I am, if not more. All we know is it's going to be something different, and trivial assurances taht could be made to the contrary haven't been.
I would have left a long time ago. But with their refusal to give me a refund for my LTS... well... I'll stick around give them the feedback I am entitled too, since I am technically a "paid up customer".
To get that Galaxy X squidheadx... you have to essentially earn Cryptic $220. That is how much the Galaxy X is worth to them [5 boxes @ 40% discount ( 29.99x5) +5 months subs (14.99x5) = roughly $220].
You keep misspelling my forum name
Yeah, I'm unpleasantly aware of that figure already, which is why I object to the Galaxy-X having unique mechanics.
I'm not entirely certain whether I'd still have been subbing or not up to this point. In all honesty I probably would be, but more due to the RP and personal connections I have in game than being impressed by the changes Cryptic has made so far.
Hmm... gone to far. I have to agree with that. Of cousre I have been thru all of the various "gates". Been here since open beta. I keep coming back to one fact. Its a game. I just don't see getting my blood pressure up over a video game. Its cryptics game in the end they can do what they want with it. Yeah we may not like it but while we are the customers they own it. The only rights we have is the right to play that we pay for. Beyond that everything else is a courtesy given to us by Cryptic. They don't have to listen to us. They don't have to seek our advice on things. They don't even have to provide this forum. They choose to. They might be wise to. That doesn't change the fact that they don't have to. Do I like everything they have done? No. I have posted as such. However, I just can't ge worked up over it. Its not mine.
We already know the cannon on the Galaxy-X is going to be something distinct from the standard cannon weapons.
You're speculating as much as I am, if not more. All we know is it's going to be something different, and trivial assurances taht could be made to the contrary haven't been.
I might be speculating about some things. But I am sure of others.
A phaser lance, a phaser cannon, whatever it is ... will have a limited firing arc. Because those things do in gameplay mechanics. You see it with the weapons. But you also see it with the firing arc on things like science powers. The firing arc on Tyken's Rift, for instance. Or Viral Matrix.
Short of being the mythical "I Win Button" that we all fear, it's not going to mesh well with a cruiser. Because it's firing arc is too restrictive. Because of how the mechanics of the game work.
The only way they can make it work is if they give it a Turret's firing arc. But then ... it's a turret. Which means it's damage is ... stinky.
An us vs. them mentality is almost never a good idea. Rushed mmos that instantly lose their subscriber bases are, amazingly, less productive than ones that keep their sub bases. No mmo ever has gone into production witth the mindset of "We'll get a bunch of money on the box sales to cover our losses and then hope that we keep enough subs to keep the servers up".
The developers want this game to be as good as we do. You think they don't play games? There are a few people there who I know love Mass Effect 2, they've played WoW and other AAA MMOs. If anything it should be us and the developers against Atari. But then it might not even be their fault because they're doing really badly right now and they need every last bit of cash they can get, Atari made some bad choices and now STO is paying for them.
I call BS. Sorry, but I have to.
I think that "We'll rush the game out, deceive people and be extremely secretive all through the development cycle, limit the amount of people that will participate in the betas so the word doesn't spread too fast about just how little is there, get a bunch of money on the box sales and life time subscriptions to cover our development costs, and then try and keep enough subs to make a profit" is what both Cryptic and Atari were thinking all along.
I think the only reason we're seeing any new content at all after release is because of the severe subscription drop off that happened almost immediately once people saw what a shoddy rushed out job they'd done, that they're in danger of not making the revenue quota that gets them their 20 million plus bonus, and they're scrambling to retain the few monthly subscribers they have left and maybe get some back.
I've become convinced that both Cryptic and Atari are equally to blame for this mess that is STO. Cryptic is actually probably more to blame. They were touting this rushed development cycle long before Atari was in the picture.
I might be speculating about some things. But I am sure of others.
A phaser lance, a phaser cannon, whatever it is ... will have a limited firing arc. Because those things do in gameplay mechanics. You see it with the weapons. But you also see it with the firing arc on things like science powers. The firing arc on Tyken's Rift, for instance. Or Viral Matrix.
Short of being the mythical "I Win Button" that we all fear, it's not going to mesh well with a cruiser. Because it's firing arc is too restrictive. Because of how the mechanics of the game work.
The only way they can make it work is if they give it a Turret's firing arc. But then ... it's a turret. Which means it's damage is ... stinky.
Why are you going to all the effort to insist that it's going to be an inferior gameplay choice? It shouldn't be. It should be a balanced and useful gameplay choice that is available through playing the game if it exists at all. It's the same reason the drop turret from Steam and the damage-to-EPS converter from D2d anger me - these are game mechanics that could enrich and diversify the gameplay experience (and maybe even retain subscriptions by giving people more options to mess with trying) but they're relegated to silly minor gimmicks.
I think that "We'll rush the game out, deceive people and be extremely secretive all through the development cycle, limit the amount of people that will participate in the betas so the word doesn't spread too fast about just how little is there, get a bunch of money on the box sales and life time subscriptions to cover our development costs, and then try and keep enough subs to make a profit" is what both Cryptic and Atari were thinking all along.
I think the only reason we're seeing any new content at all after release is because of the severe subscription drop off that happened almost immediately once people saw what a shoddy rushed out job they'd done, that they're in danger of not making the revenue quota that gets them their 20 million plus bonus, and they're scrambling to retain the few monthly subscribers they have left and maybe get some back.
I've become convinced that both Cryptic and Atari are equally to blame for this mess that is STO. Cryptic is actually probably more to blame. They were touting this rushed development cycle long before Atari was in the picture.
Read the following carefully:
Unfortunately this is all speculation, but there is the possibility that you may be right. From what I understand, once Cryptic received the rights to the IP, it was a time that wasn't so fabulous for them. Marvel (or DC) comics had pulled out from the super heroes project and they were likely hurting for money at the time.
Hence, the hunt for investors, publishers, and generally any avenue which would help keep them afloat. If you've read their branding... Cryptic has tried to market themselves as "MMO veterans, with a proven technology to cut down on resource cost and development time, in order to capitalize on a streamlined MMO development philosophy and process". That isn't a direct quote. They wanted to sell themselves as a company that can create MMO's quickly and with far less reduced cost than is typical.
In comes Atari... known for fledgling finances/deficets in their fiscal reports. They see Cryptic as a cost efficient way to enter the lucrative MMO market. UNFORTUNATELY, there is a "contractual agreement" in place for the Star Trek IP, either imposed by CBS or Atari... no one is clear on this point. I would venture to say that it isn't too far from the truth to contend that it was Atari who imposed the contractual agreement, for most of us are aware of the purported $20million bonus that Cryptic would get if they completed STO within the first quarter of 2010 (or something like that, details hazy, forgive me), and to reach certain undisclosed sales goals.
The scenario which I feel is likely... is that Atari sets certain sales and profit goals for Cryptic. But it is up to Cryptic to implement actionables which reach these goals. It is Atari's fault for trying to bleed STO to death for the sake of profit, while it is Cryptic's fault for damaging STO and its community by going about it in all the wrong ways.
Bottomline, poor STO was stuck between a rock and a hard place "from day one" LOL. Sorry, I normally don't do that, but consider it an inside joke ;-) If I'm wrong, by all means correct me fellow forum goers, or Cryptic staff.
I think people who don't care about STO don't bother coming to the forums to complain.
So Cryptic should just think of all the complaints as tough love.
We love you Cryptic, but we're not afraid to smack you a couple of times if you get outta line!
You're right and wrong at sort of the same time. Smaller companies like Cryptic and Netdevil are moving to the two year development time frame due to the fact that there is little investment capital being invested in longer development times. Take TOR for example, it has already cost EA a great deal of money to invest in Bioware's TOR. So much so, they have canceled some projects in order to devote more money to TOR. In return the minimum to break even for EA and Bioware is a million subs.
So what Cryptic has done, and after talking to some of the devs and others I am almost certain of this. Is to take a skeleton frame work of a MMO get it out the door and then use input from the community to flesh it out. Netdevil is using the same process, albeit a little different in Jumpscape I believe. At least according to the information from the 2009 Game Developers Conference.
Now add in Atari, who is infamous for making bad marketing decisions (Ghostbusters PC) and the fact that Atari is hurting for cash and you see the origins of the situation.
Problem is: Normally only people who want to vent, rant, or guys in their break at work visit the forum. They let go of their anger, and toss around some unfriendly words and harsh critic , but everythings well under control.
STO itself isn't so bad. And the Referral thing isn't that bad either. The main problem is the lack of content. People are bored. And instead of spending time IN THE GAME, they spend time in the forums. We should all be playing, not posting stuff.
The bored masses read the forums... and then it gets to them. Perfectly peaceful people looking for answers are only confronted with complaints in the forum. And in their state of apathy... they adopt the perspectives of the ranters... and start to agree, to find more and more stuff to be upset about. Every complaint in this forum becomes THEIR problem too, even if they didn't even notice it themselves.
Detach yourselves from other peoples opinions and angers. Realize how the game was really for you. Where you that upset before you read all of this? Play for some time. If it's not for you, take a break. DON'T read the forums. Just do something else. Wait for the next patch.
It might be slow, but this game IS getting better. No one wants to be upset. So just. Don't. Be.
Well, unlike a lot of games, at least complaining works here. We know it does because we've seen things change in response to our "forum riots" as one dev put it.
The KDF is getting PvE content only because we rioted on the forums about it. If I remember right, Zinc's remark was something like, "They want Klingon PvE content, who knew?" So as much as the dev-a$$-kissers and yes men might complain about it, Cryptic has shown us that rioting on their forums IS the correct way to go about affecting change. Because it's what works.
If Cryptic doesn't want us rioting on their forums then they need to stop giving in to the rioters and start banning them. Since that's unlikely to happen, then the Cryptic devs need to start acting like adults. They need to quit posting on the forum about how mean the forum meanies are to them, they need to grow up and get over it and move on and do their jobs. Just like real grownup adult type people.
The fact is that STO doesn't have enough content, much of the content that it does have is 'madlib' trash, and the sandbox elements are too few and too limited to keep people's interest for any length of time. If the Season 2 update is anywhere near as big as some of the devs are trying to hint that it is, then STO may finally become a full-fledged MMO. Until then, the Cryptic devs and their forum yes men are going to have to learn with the forum negativity, because at this point it's all that STO and Cryptic deserves.
Well, unlike a lot of games, at least complaining works here. We know it does because we've seen things change in response to our "forum riots" as one dev put it.
The KDF is getting PvE content only because we rioted on the forums about it. If I remember right, Zinc's remark was something like, "They want Klingon PvE content, who knew?" So as much as the dev-a$$-kissers and yes men might complain about it, Cryptic has shown us that rioting on their forums IS the correct way to go about affecting change. Because it's what works.
If Cryptic doesn't want us rioting on their forums then they need to stop giving in to the rioters and start banning them. Since that's unlikely to happen, then the Cryptic devs need to start acting like adults. They need to quit posting on the forum about how mean the forum meanies are to them, they need to grow up and get over it and move on and do their jobs. Just like real grownup adult type people.
The fact is that STO doesn't have enough content, much of the content that it does have is 'madlib' trash, and the sandbox elements are too few and too limited to keep people's interest for any length of time. If the Season 2 update is anywhere near as big as some of the devs are trying to hint that it is, then STO may finally become a full-fledged MMO. Until then, the Cryptic devs and their forum yes men are going to have to learn with the forum negativity, because at this point it's all that STO and Cryptic deserves.
I am... A-MAZED.
Peregrine... I am almost certain, that your posts have more bite than mine now! Becareful, and I mean that sincerely. There is a perceptible move towards silencing, censoring, and discriminating against people who are the least bit critical (even those who are respected here)... and this is not paranoia speaking... these words are coming from the fingers of a very reasonable and level headed individual! If only I could spill the specifics, but we know what would transpire if that were to happen.
In terms of what you say about season 2, and "if its being anywhere as near as big as they are trying to hint that it is..." well... remember how they hyped up the genesis engine, and how they used the "45 day patch" as a marketing tactic. Grain of salt, and "wait and see" is all I have to say.
But as I say again... YIKES! :eek::eek: Regardless, I for one agree with your points.
Read the following carefully:
In comes Atari... known for fledgling finances/deficets in their fiscal reports. They see Cryptic as a cost efficient way to enter the lucrative MMO market. UNFORTUNATELY, there is a "contractual agreement" in place for the Star Trek IP, either imposed by CBS or Atari... no one is clear on this point. I would venture to say that it isn't too far from the truth to contend that it was Atari who imposed the contractual agreement, for most of us are aware of the purported $20million bonus that Cryptic would get if they completed STO within the first quarter of 2010 (or something like that, details hazy, forgive me), and to reach certain undisclosed sales goals.
WARNING: Wall of Text (sorry). Important points highlighted.
Search for "bonus" which appears on page 2. The bonus is actually for out performing revenue targets for CO and STO combined. There's two payout periods, the first scheduled for August of this year. The bonus may have something to do with the contractual launch date but I think it's more than likely CBS since they put up with Perpetual's vaporware for so long.
You're right that Atari acquired Cryptic specifically for their ability to quickly develop a MMO with a reduced budget and reduced resources. Cryptic uses that and their proprietary game engine which facilitates this to market themselves. Jack Emmert also mentioned how quickly STO would be finished in Vegas 2008.
There's nothing really wrong with this business wise... *if* that model fit the demand. What went wrong is CBS, Atari and Cryptic underestimated the response to STO. This is proven during Closed Beta where they simply were overwhelmed by the numbers of people who had access. Plans were changed for CB purchasers so the servers wouldn't be overloaded. Then at open beta the test servers had to be converted into live servers, etc. We know the story.
Cryptic is now the little engine that could. I don't believe they are evil people who don't care about Star Trek and who just want to grab our money so they can go onto their next MMO. They were faced with a difficult situation given their size, the overwhelming demand and the grand scope of the Star Trek IP.
They had to launch under contractual agreement. Simply put... They bit off more than they could chew. It explains everything from no TOS mini skirt at launch to an undone Klingon faction. Everything people have been ranting and raving for they want to do but didn't have the time & resources for.
This "minimal resource required" business model continues. Cryptic has lost plenty of subs (some claim a hemorrhage) over them not being able to meet player demands for features and content. I think it's maybe not a hemorrhage but certainly more than that "it's normal for MMOs to loose subs after launch" argument.
I believe they are doing their very best but most everything has to be implemented on a triage basis. I think they are honestly busting their nuggets not only for us players but also so they can show Atari and CBS that they are up to this challenge. If people understand this maybe they would be more understanding.
That being said, I still understand people who are upset about STO. After all, corners were cut to get the game launched. Advertised features are still not available or were made available much later than anticipated. The irate customer is not at fault here. Some understanding should be given to that angry person too, especially those who are staying to fight for the features they want.
Comments
I think if they add a cloak, that it won't be exclusive to that ship. That cloaking on the fed side will be something that gets added as the game expands. So that ship will just be the teaser of what's to come.
As far as the super phaser cannon wave motion gun death star beam it can shoot?
That will either be a horrible weapon that's forced onto a cruiser that can't use it very well. Or it will be something akin to the red matter device. Either way, it will handicap the ship.
I wouldn't worry if I were you.
Unfortunately ...
If you paid money to purchase this game and play it ... you have already lost your fight.
Ah, I see. I misunderstood you then, and I apologize for that. I see what you were saying.
Perhaps things are changing here. Since being hyper-active on these forums since the end of 2008, I've never once received so much as a warning for anything I've posted... until Phoxe stepped in.
And yes, we can't discuss the specifics, but needless to say... I feel Phoxe is abusing his position, and have sufficient reason to believe so. As for the CO forums... perhaps they needed to be super ban hammeresque... because those forums were FIERY. Can't blame them though, that product was less than stellar from what I have consistently heard/read/seen, not to mention all the fiascos and debacles they went through. Poor them (and poor Cryptic).
After seeing it later it was just in an alternate universe. For less than 30 seconds. They just duplicated the nacelle and pylon. Then welded it to the Enterprise model. Instead of designing a futuristic Enterprise. I really don't see that ship as all that iconic. If it had been in more episodes maybe. That was a good TNG show.
When I first saw the ship. I wanted it. When I saw I had to get 5 players to subscribe for one month. I knew there was no way I could get it. I don't believe because I subscribe to a MMO. I should be entitled to get every item in the game. I can also see why they don't want thousands flying around since it was only in one show for under thirty seconds.
I think the RAF riot went to far.
Us vs. Them? Get away with what they've done? Doing great harm? ...Are you serious about any of that?:rolleyes:
If you like the game subscribe and play it. If you dont, then dont. Its not a war. Its paid entertainment. If you're not entertained, pay for something else instead. But if someone is enjoying the game and continues to subscribe, there's nothing wrong with that.
Category 1 is perceived as "crazies with pitchforks" by those in Category 2.
Category 2 is perceived as "fanboys, dev pets and sycophants" by those in Category 1.
In reality they are both on the same team, trying to make STO better in their own ways. But their approaches and mindsets are so extreme they will almost never recognize this.
Devs, on the other hand, are weary of having to sift through the flames of those in Category 1. You can see this in recent comments by Dstahl who went to bat for us over the Galaxy X (thank you btw!). And now the mods will be filing all feedback about marketing offers into a "special" more "organized" section of the forums. Uh huh...
Although I almost never post against people in Category 1 (because I too am passionate about certain things) I think the over-the-top negativity is starting to take it's toll. Keep fighting for what you believe in but pick your battles and consider how the devs might perceive any irate posts because more than likely they are starting to fall on deaf ears.
This is a bit of a tangent but I hope I have a point ... heh.
So, like I was trying to think about what I would get that emotional or passionate about in terms of a reward put into a system I knew I couldn't achieve.
I admit ... I look at the RAF and think ... yeah, I can't get 5 people to do that. And it's absurd to buy 5 separate accounts.
So there's no way I could achieve that goal. But I look at the reward and am not interested.
How would I feel if it were a reward I wanted?
Well I'm a uniform FREAK! I absolutely go crazy for uniform variations.
I thought what if the reward was the uniform from that future time?
And realized I'd still not bother.
I think it's an ok uni, but I'm not worried I don't have it.
Then I rememberd ... one of the races the devs want to make playable is Deltans.
What if the reward for the RAF were ... the Motion Picture Uniforms?
I found my catalyst.
I'd be freaking out because those I'd want.
Wooooooooooooooo. This!
An us vs. them mentality is almost never a good idea. Rushed mmos that instantly lose their subscriber bases are, amazingly, less productive than ones that keep their sub bases. No mmo ever has gone into production witth the mindset of "We'll get a bunch of money on the box sales to cover our losses and then hope that we keep enough subs to keep the servers up".
The developers want this game to be as good as we do. You think they don't play games? There are a few people there who I know love Mass Effect 2, they've played WoW and other AAA MMOs. If anything it should be us and the developers against Atari. But then it might not even be their fault because they're doing really badly right now and they need every last bit of cash they can get, Atari made some bad choices and now STO is paying for them.
I would have left a long time ago. But with their refusal to give me a refund for my LTS... well... I'll stick around give them the feedback I am entitled too, since I am technically a "paid up customer".
To get that Galaxy X squidheadx... you have to essentially earn Cryptic $220. That is how much the Galaxy X is worth to them [5 boxes @ 40% discount ( 29.99x5) +5 months subs (14.99x5) = roughly $220].
It's not sufficient to me that it be balanced (although the muddled descriptions don't fill me with confidence that it will be, and speculation that it will be is just the same as speculation it won't be). It's selling off gameplay choices. It's indistinct from selling off different BO power options or weapons types or, of course, actual different ship classes rather than skins. The sort of thing to be expected in a game you pay for piecemeal that doesn't have a subscription.
Blunt and to the point while being sane and rational with good advice. I commend you.
I am a uniform freak also. I bought the retail collectors edition for the TNG uniforms. I think all the uniforms should have been offered for free. I don't think that is to much to ask of them. I bought the collectors edition for those. I think uniforms should be free. So players can show support for their favorite show or movie.
The liberated Borg and the Alternate Enterprise should be exclusives. In my opinion they shouldn't be common. Since they were never common in the series.
I don't quite see it the way you do. If they're FORCING a cannon into a forward weapon slot on a cruiser ... that's not selling off a gameplay choice.
That's ...
1- Something you can currently equip.
2- A bad choice. Because it doesn't work well on a cruiser.
3- Not something to be upset over as the superior gameplay choice will be to fly something else.
As far as the rumored cloaking device goes ... if they preview it with this, but then make it available to other ships at that tier or beyond ... then it's moot. It becomes the norm once the game makes it standard. I can live with the paltry few people who have that ship getting this BEFORE me, if it eventually just becomes the norm. And a federation cloak? Is something they'd most likely do that with.
So ... in short ... Cannon ... BAD IDEA, because it's going to suck!
Cloak? Not a worry, because if they give it to one fed ship, they'll give it to the rest.
I wish the standard unis, like TNG and DS9 were free. Or offered in a magazine. Or something like that. Because I agree with the sentiment being expressed in posts like yours. They're unis from the show. So many more players should have access to them.
I am, however a freak. For unis. And bought a CE and now have the TNG, DS9, TOS and Khan uniforms. I do not recommend that path. And would support a much more player friendly path. And oddly enough, since I am aware of my problem, I wouldn't feel resentment if they made TNG unis and DS9 unis easy to get tomorrow or next week or whatever. I'd just be happy to see more folks in them.
We already know the cannon on the Galaxy-X is going to be something distinct from the standard cannon weapons.
You're speculating as much as I am, if not more. All we know is it's going to be something different, and trivial assurances taht could be made to the contrary haven't been.
You keep misspelling my forum name
Yeah, I'm unpleasantly aware of that figure already, which is why I object to the Galaxy-X having unique mechanics.
I'm not entirely certain whether I'd still have been subbing or not up to this point. In all honesty I probably would be, but more due to the RP and personal connections I have in game than being impressed by the changes Cryptic has made so far.
No one told you? They're releasing an exclusive Squidhead-X variant of you. With an extra Nacelle on top of your head.
...but that's not where I'd want an extra nacelle :eek:
I'd be damn snazzy with a cannon tho.
I might be speculating about some things. But I am sure of others.
A phaser lance, a phaser cannon, whatever it is ... will have a limited firing arc. Because those things do in gameplay mechanics. You see it with the weapons. But you also see it with the firing arc on things like science powers. The firing arc on Tyken's Rift, for instance. Or Viral Matrix.
Short of being the mythical "I Win Button" that we all fear, it's not going to mesh well with a cruiser. Because it's firing arc is too restrictive. Because of how the mechanics of the game work.
The only way they can make it work is if they give it a Turret's firing arc. But then ... it's a turret. Which means it's damage is ... stinky.
I think that "We'll rush the game out, deceive people and be extremely secretive all through the development cycle, limit the amount of people that will participate in the betas so the word doesn't spread too fast about just how little is there, get a bunch of money on the box sales and life time subscriptions to cover our development costs, and then try and keep enough subs to make a profit" is what both Cryptic and Atari were thinking all along.
I think the only reason we're seeing any new content at all after release is because of the severe subscription drop off that happened almost immediately once people saw what a shoddy rushed out job they'd done, that they're in danger of not making the revenue quota that gets them their 20 million plus bonus, and they're scrambling to retain the few monthly subscribers they have left and maybe get some back.
I've become convinced that both Cryptic and Atari are equally to blame for this mess that is STO. Cryptic is actually probably more to blame. They were touting this rushed development cycle long before Atari was in the picture.
Why are you going to all the effort to insist that it's going to be an inferior gameplay choice? It shouldn't be. It should be a balanced and useful gameplay choice that is available through playing the game if it exists at all. It's the same reason the drop turret from Steam and the damage-to-EPS converter from D2d anger me - these are game mechanics that could enrich and diversify the gameplay experience (and maybe even retain subscriptions by giving people more options to mess with trying) but they're relegated to silly minor gimmicks.
Read the following carefully:
Unfortunately this is all speculation, but there is the possibility that you may be right. From what I understand, once Cryptic received the rights to the IP, it was a time that wasn't so fabulous for them. Marvel (or DC) comics had pulled out from the super heroes project and they were likely hurting for money at the time.
Hence, the hunt for investors, publishers, and generally any avenue which would help keep them afloat. If you've read their branding... Cryptic has tried to market themselves as "MMO veterans, with a proven technology to cut down on resource cost and development time, in order to capitalize on a streamlined MMO development philosophy and process". That isn't a direct quote. They wanted to sell themselves as a company that can create MMO's quickly and with far less reduced cost than is typical.
In comes Atari... known for fledgling finances/deficets in their fiscal reports. They see Cryptic as a cost efficient way to enter the lucrative MMO market. UNFORTUNATELY, there is a "contractual agreement" in place for the Star Trek IP, either imposed by CBS or Atari... no one is clear on this point. I would venture to say that it isn't too far from the truth to contend that it was Atari who imposed the contractual agreement, for most of us are aware of the purported $20million bonus that Cryptic would get if they completed STO within the first quarter of 2010 (or something like that, details hazy, forgive me), and to reach certain undisclosed sales goals.
The scenario which I feel is likely... is that Atari sets certain sales and profit goals for Cryptic. But it is up to Cryptic to implement actionables which reach these goals. It is Atari's fault for trying to bleed STO to death for the sake of profit, while it is Cryptic's fault for damaging STO and its community by going about it in all the wrong ways.
Bottomline, poor STO was stuck between a rock and a hard place "from day one" LOL. Sorry, I normally don't do that, but consider it an inside joke ;-) If I'm wrong, by all means correct me fellow forum goers, or Cryptic staff.
So Cryptic should just think of all the complaints as tough love.
We love you Cryptic, but we're not afraid to smack you a couple of times if you get outta line!
You're right and wrong at sort of the same time. Smaller companies like Cryptic and Netdevil are moving to the two year development time frame due to the fact that there is little investment capital being invested in longer development times. Take TOR for example, it has already cost EA a great deal of money to invest in Bioware's TOR. So much so, they have canceled some projects in order to devote more money to TOR. In return the minimum to break even for EA and Bioware is a million subs.
So what Cryptic has done, and after talking to some of the devs and others I am almost certain of this. Is to take a skeleton frame work of a MMO get it out the door and then use input from the community to flesh it out. Netdevil is using the same process, albeit a little different in Jumpscape I believe. At least according to the information from the 2009 Game Developers Conference.
Now add in Atari, who is infamous for making bad marketing decisions (Ghostbusters PC) and the fact that Atari is hurting for cash and you see the origins of the situation.
STO itself isn't so bad. And the Referral thing isn't that bad either. The main problem is the lack of content. People are bored. And instead of spending time IN THE GAME, they spend time in the forums. We should all be playing, not posting stuff.
The bored masses read the forums... and then it gets to them. Perfectly peaceful people looking for answers are only confronted with complaints in the forum. And in their state of apathy... they adopt the perspectives of the ranters... and start to agree, to find more and more stuff to be upset about. Every complaint in this forum becomes THEIR problem too, even if they didn't even notice it themselves.
Detach yourselves from other peoples opinions and angers. Realize how the game was really for you. Where you that upset before you read all of this? Play for some time. If it's not for you, take a break. DON'T read the forums. Just do something else. Wait for the next patch.
It might be slow, but this game IS getting better. No one wants to be upset. So just. Don't. Be.
The KDF is getting PvE content only because we rioted on the forums about it. If I remember right, Zinc's remark was something like, "They want Klingon PvE content, who knew?" So as much as the dev-a$$-kissers and yes men might complain about it, Cryptic has shown us that rioting on their forums IS the correct way to go about affecting change. Because it's what works.
If Cryptic doesn't want us rioting on their forums then they need to stop giving in to the rioters and start banning them. Since that's unlikely to happen, then the Cryptic devs need to start acting like adults. They need to quit posting on the forum about how mean the forum meanies are to them, they need to grow up and get over it and move on and do their jobs. Just like real grownup adult type people.
The fact is that STO doesn't have enough content, much of the content that it does have is 'madlib' trash, and the sandbox elements are too few and too limited to keep people's interest for any length of time. If the Season 2 update is anywhere near as big as some of the devs are trying to hint that it is, then STO may finally become a full-fledged MMO. Until then, the Cryptic devs and their forum yes men are going to have to learn with the forum negativity, because at this point it's all that STO and Cryptic deserves.
Peregrine... I am almost certain, that your posts have more bite than mine now! Becareful, and I mean that sincerely. There is a perceptible move towards silencing, censoring, and discriminating against people who are the least bit critical (even those who are respected here)... and this is not paranoia speaking... these words are coming from the fingers of a very reasonable and level headed individual! If only I could spill the specifics, but we know what would transpire if that were to happen.
In terms of what you say about season 2, and "if its being anywhere as near as big as they are trying to hint that it is..." well... remember how they hyped up the genesis engine, and how they used the "45 day patch" as a marketing tactic. Grain of salt, and "wait and see" is all I have to say.
But as I say again... YIKES! :eek::eek:
WARNING: Wall of Text (sorry). Important points highlighted.
Here's a link to the official Atari Memo on acquiring Cryptic.
Search for "bonus" which appears on page 2. The bonus is actually for out performing revenue targets for CO and STO combined. There's two payout periods, the first scheduled for August of this year. The bonus may have something to do with the contractual launch date but I think it's more than likely CBS since they put up with Perpetual's vaporware for so long.
You're right that Atari acquired Cryptic specifically for their ability to quickly develop a MMO with a reduced budget and reduced resources. Cryptic uses that and their proprietary game engine which facilitates this to market themselves. Jack Emmert also mentioned how quickly STO would be finished in Vegas 2008.
There's nothing really wrong with this business wise... *if* that model fit the demand. What went wrong is CBS, Atari and Cryptic underestimated the response to STO. This is proven during Closed Beta where they simply were overwhelmed by the numbers of people who had access. Plans were changed for CB purchasers so the servers wouldn't be overloaded. Then at open beta the test servers had to be converted into live servers, etc. We know the story.
Cryptic is now the little engine that could. I don't believe they are evil people who don't care about Star Trek and who just want to grab our money so they can go onto their next MMO. They were faced with a difficult situation given their size, the overwhelming demand and the grand scope of the Star Trek IP.
They had to launch under contractual agreement. Simply put... They bit off more than they could chew. It explains everything from no TOS mini skirt at launch to an undone Klingon faction. Everything people have been ranting and raving for they want to do but didn't have the time & resources for.
This "minimal resource required" business model continues. Cryptic has lost plenty of subs (some claim a hemorrhage) over them not being able to meet player demands for features and content. I think it's maybe not a hemorrhage but certainly more than that "it's normal for MMOs to loose subs after launch" argument.
I believe they are doing their very best but most everything has to be implemented on a triage basis. I think they are honestly busting their nuggets not only for us players but also so they can show Atari and CBS that they are up to this challenge. If people understand this maybe they would be more understanding.
That being said, I still understand people who are upset about STO. After all, corners were cut to get the game launched. Advertised features are still not available or were made available much later than anticipated. The irate customer is not at fault here. Some understanding should be given to that angry person too, especially those who are staying to fight for the features they want.