I approve of this thread: the Galaxy X was an ugly, overpowered garbage scow. No wait, it shouldn't be hauling garbage. It should be hauled away AS garbage
That said, even if they add it in, I won't fly it and it's less than zero incentive for me to try and sign anyone else up.
But I saw in the other thread about this that they were thinking about giving it a cloaking device. Please don't do that. For the love of God, don't give this monstrosity a cloaking device. It's still a Federation ship, whether or not it should be hauled away as garbage
The Galaxy was superseded in the future. Why would they outfit an old ship in an era of a replacement for that ship. They would simple stick their nose gun and extra engine on a sovereign. As Gene was wont to do, if it's old and the new stuff supersedes and contradicts it then the old stuff is no longer canon.
That's not quite right though. In a DS9 episode, the Defiant was attacked near Earth by the Lakota, a refit of an Excelsior class ship that was still in service. Not only was it a refit of an outdated design, but held it's own against the Defiant and could have won the battle if both sides hadn't backed down. There might be other examples of this, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.
Either way, it doesn't matter. The real issue with the Galaxy-X isn't the design, it's the "extra power" it gets that other ships won't have. Cryptic has said in the past that it won't make things that affect game balance that many players cannot get. That being said, I'm not sure what this extra power could be or if it will be "gamebreaking" or just a neat feature that will be situational at best.
Either way, personally I don't care either way. Would I like to have the ship? Sure, it'd be fun to cruise around in. Will it make or break the game for me? Not in the slightest. If people can get 5 people to subscribe to this game, they have earned that ship Now the EMH BO, that's another story...
I approve of this thread: the Galaxy X was an ugly, overpowered garbage scow. No wait, it shouldn't be hauling garbage. It should be hauled away AS garbage
That said, even if they add it in, I won't fly it and it's less than zero incentive for me to try and sign anyone else up.
But I saw in the other thread about this that they were thinking about giving it a cloaking device. Please don't do that. For the love of God, don't give this monstrosity a cloaking device. It's still a Federation ship, whether or not it should be hauled away as garbage
Geordi La Forge is gonna come up and knock your lights ou...oh who am I kidding, he isn't half the engineer that Montgomery Scott was!
I approve of this thread: the Galaxy X was an ugly, overpowered garbage scow. No wait, it shouldn't be hauling garbage. It should be hauled away AS garbage
That said, even if they add it in, I won't fly it and it's less than zero incentive for me to try and sign anyone else up.
But I saw in the other thread about this that they were thinking about giving it a cloaking device. Please don't do that. For the love of God, don't give this monstrosity a cloaking device. It's still a Federation ship, whether or not it should be hauled away as garbage
Nono! Leave the cloak in! Then you dont have to look at it!
Cryptic has said in the past that it won't make things that affect game balance that many players cannot get.
Actually that's not what they said. What they said was that nothing being sold in the C-Store would affect game balance. Likewise, your example is proven wrong by the multitude of different bonus items that someone can get via buying from different vendors.
I approve of this thread: the Galaxy X was an ugly, overpowered garbage scow. No wait, it shouldn't be hauling garbage. It should be hauled away AS garbage
That said, even if they add it in, I won't fly it and it's less than zero incentive for me to try and sign anyone else up.
But I saw in the other thread about this that they were thinking about giving it a cloaking device. Please don't do that. For the love of God, don't give this monstrosity a cloaking device. It's still a Federation ship, whether or not it should be hauled away as garbage
sorry to burst your bubble but its getting a non combat cloaking device :P
I think he might be referring to a quote directly attributed to gene where he stated "Warp nacelles MUST be in pairs" and "The Franz Joseph Designs single-nacelle ships are not official canon..
This would greatly disappoint me. I keep hopeing they add a sector via a time portal that is all TOS. And that you could actually get and fly the old scout and destroyer designs. And the 3 nacelle Dreadnaught. That would be cool.
Did you know that it is IMPOSSIBLE to travel beyond the speed of sound?
Did you know the Earth is flat?
Yes, Gene said that about the nacelles, about the designs and the requirements. But, like so many things throughout history, they change through time. It used to be that aircraft couldn't pass the speed of sound. Then it used to be they couldn't without making a sonic boom. Now? They can do it like it's nobody's business and be silent about it.
Engineering problems get solved, is what I'm saying. Yeah, maybe in TOS it had to be a certain way, but time's moved on and up. Maybe it doesn't have to be that way anymore.
I just wanted to point out a few instances of "un-even" nacelle counts.
The USS Kelvin in JJ Trek
The instance in Twilight when Enterprise was able to go to warp on 1 nacelle.
The instance in Year of Hell when Voyager was able to do the same.
I want to believe in Roddenberry's laws, but the canon seems to be drifting away from them.
And then there's the instance of the Prometheus's saucer nacelles having 0 line of site.
And the Melbourne having 2 completely different sized nacelles..tho I'm not sure if that matters.
1: Brand new ship even though from early in the timeline. Let's not forget, in JJTrek anything goes.
2: Irrelevant: That's being able to run on 1 engine and has nothing to do with the design stipulation of an even number of nacelles ( which is what Gene said, he did not say "an even number of warp coils" )
3: irrelevant: see 2:
4:: I disagree. 50% visible means across the beam of the ship. Or side on if you will. Prometheus clearly falls within this rule as it does on the forward facing view rule.
5: I'm not sure that matters either. Nobody said anything about equality in size.
Did you know that it is IMPOSSIBLE to travel beyond the speed of sound?
Did you know the Earth is flat?
Yes, Gene said that about the nacelles, about the designs and the requirements. But, like so many things throughout history, they change through time. It used to be that aircraft couldn't pass the speed of sound. Then it used to be they couldn't without making a sonic boom. Now? They can do it like it's nobody's business and be silent about it.
Engineering problems get solved, is what I'm saying. Yeah, maybe in TOS it had to be a certain way, but time's moved on and up. Maybe it doesn't have to be that way anymore.
did you know that you are confusing science with science fiction?
Gene could have made up what he liked, it is after all. make-believe. He chose to set out a certain set of design rules.
That's not quite right though. In a DS9 episode, the Defiant was attacked near Earth by the Lakota, a refit of an Excelsior class ship that was still in service. Not only was it a refit of an outdated design, but held it's own against the Defiant and could have won the battle if both sides hadn't backed down. There might be other examples of this, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.
.
Not true. The Lakota was not a refit. It was a brand new ship commissioned in the same year that the fight with the Defiant occurred. Yes it was an excelsior hull design but nothing about it otherwise was an old Excelsior.
From what I recall, the Prometheus has one pop-up micro-nacelle for the Saucer, and the other hulls getting a pair of the more noticable nacelles.
The 'Alpha' hull of the Prometheus-class (aka the 'Bridge section') has two pop-up micro-nacelles - one dorsal, one ventral. It's hard to spot, but it's there.
I might be a little fuzzy on it, but I do not recall what the Galaxy X looked like enough to warrent like or dislikeing the design..
Also, Just because ONE SHIP was shown to have a cloaking device, does not mean that if some one uses all of the Galaxy X "costume peices" they would automatically get a cloaking device..
I sware every chance some people get they try to find an excuse to give a Federation ship a Cloaking device.. All because Sisko had one I bet.. :rolleyes:
Not true. The Lakota was not a refit. It was a brand new ship commissioned in the same year that the fight with the Defiant occurred. Yes it was an excelsior hull design but nothing about it otherwise was an old Excelsior.
Memory Alpha states it is an Excelsior-Class refit. Perhaps the issue is your definition of refit. I think most consider a refit to be taking an exisiting ship and modifying it with updated technology so-as to make it viable in a new era.
I don't remember where, perhaps Ex Astris Scientia, but on some Star Trek technobabble website I saw a theory that goes a long way to explain this.
The theory states that, as the nacelles technology evolved, somewhere between the TOS Movie era and the TNG era, each Nacelle began having 2 warp coils inside them instead of 1 which explains why they suddenly became so much dramatically wider.
The (admittedly non-canon, but written by those who are primarily involved in the production & 'science') TNG Technical Manual, the TNG ep 'Eye of the Beholder'', and the VGR ep 'Nightingale' seems to disprove this.
did you know that you are confusing science with science fiction?
Gene could have made up what he liked, it is after all. make-believe. He chose to set out a certain set of design rules.
Then he died and people changed those rules. An example being the new trek movie, and some of the other examples that defy said rules.
Gene created Star Trek but it doesn't exist by his mandates.
Memory Alpha states it is an Excelsior-Class refit. Perhaps the issue is your definition of refit. I think most consider a refit to be taking an exisiting ship and modifying it with updated technology so-as to make it viable in a new era.
refit is taking an existing vessel and modifying it with more modern equipment. The Lakota was a brand new ship giving rise to a brand new class. The Lakota refit is the class. Not meaning it's a refitted Excelsior but a new subtype of ship.
It's not relevant to the argument though as despite being 90 years old the excelsior class was still in service ( because there were no films or programs in that timeline to warrant a change )
Not true. The Lakota was not a refit. It was a brand new ship commissioned in the same year that the fight with the Defiant occurred. Yes it was an excelsior hull design but nothing about it otherwise was an old Excelsior.
Just checked the episode: 0:27:30 onwards - states that the Lakota is under-going a refit.
Not true. The Lakota was not a refit. It was a brand new ship commissioned in the same year that the fight with the Defiant occurred. Yes it was an excelsior hull design but nothing about it otherwise was an old Excelsior.
It was a refit. It was an outdated ship that had been given upgraded phasers and quantum torpedos. It doesn't say if any other systems were upgraded or not, but it was a ship that was brought out of service to be used once again. Anyway, I'm getting ready to watch the episode again (this thread got me wanting to watch some DS9!) so I'll let you know what is said exactly in the episode.
Actually that's not what they said. What they said was that nothing being sold in the C-Store would affect game balance. Likewise, your example is proven wrong by the multitude of different bonus items that someone can get via buying from different vendors.
You're only half right. The C-store example you are right on, it had been a while since reading about that. The multitude of different bonus items from different vendors doesn't impact the game balance. The only 2 that are relevant at end game would be the tribble and maybe the Borg BO. Though they certainly don't break game balance.
Either way, offering a ship with a neat cannon shouldn't be too game breaking. Now that cloak they are talking about giving it might be. We'll just have to wait and see I guess.
It was a refit. It was an outdated ship that had been given upgraded phasers and quantum torpedos. It doesn't say if any other systems were upgraded or not, but it was a ship that was brought out of service to be used once again. Anyway, I'm getting ready to watch the episode again (this thread got me wanting to watch some DS9!) so I'll let you know what is said exactly in the episode.
you are wrong. It was commissioned in 2372. Same year as the episode takes place. It was a brand new subtype built for the war. But you can keep calling me a liar as much as you like.
Just checked the episode: 0:27:30 onwards - states that the Lakota is under-going a refit.
Was it not the weapon modifications that you are talking about? The Lakota has no history before that date. It's is officially in the books as commissioned 2372 and destroyed (non-canon) in the badlands 2376
you are wrong. It was commissioned in 2372. Same year as the episode takes place. It was a brand new subtype built for the war. But you can keep calling me a liar as much as you like.
The registry number (NCC-42768) suggests otherwise.
you are wrong. It was commissioned in 2372. Same year as the episode takes place. It was a brand new subtype built for the war. But you can keep calling me a liar as much as you like.
Both the episode script and Memory Alpha disagree with you but we're wrong. OK.
Edit: Memory Beta, the soft-canon source, also calls it an Excelsior Class vessel.
Was it not the weapon modifications that you are talking about? The Lakota has no history before that date. It's is officially in the books as commissioned 2372 and destroyed (non-canon) in the badlands 2376
No. The line is: "The Lakota won't be done with it's refit [...]". No mention of weapon systems until O'Brien's exclamation as the battle commences.
However, as a self-confessed Treknology geek, I have to ask: Which book gives the official commission date?
refit is taking an existing vessel and modifying it with more modern equipment. The Lakota was a brand new ship giving rise to a brand new class. The Lakota refit is the class. Not meaning it's a refitted Excelsior but a new subtype of ship.
It's not relevant to the argument though as despite being 90 years old the excelsior class was still in service ( because there were no films or programs in that timeline to warrant a change )
The Enterprise D was the first of it's kind. Many more were made after that. By the time of All Good Things only around 35-40 years have passed since the Enterprise D was launched. I can't believe that the Excelsior could still be in service after 90 years and the Galaxy wouldn't be after only 40. If you have proof somewhere that the Galaxy isn't in service I'll gladly concede on that point.
Comments
That said, even if they add it in, I won't fly it and it's less than zero incentive for me to try and sign anyone else up.
But I saw in the other thread about this that they were thinking about giving it a cloaking device. Please don't do that. For the love of God, don't give this monstrosity a cloaking device. It's still a Federation ship, whether or not it should be hauled away as garbage
That's not quite right though. In a DS9 episode, the Defiant was attacked near Earth by the Lakota, a refit of an Excelsior class ship that was still in service. Not only was it a refit of an outdated design, but held it's own against the Defiant and could have won the battle if both sides hadn't backed down. There might be other examples of this, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.
Either way, it doesn't matter. The real issue with the Galaxy-X isn't the design, it's the "extra power" it gets that other ships won't have. Cryptic has said in the past that it won't make things that affect game balance that many players cannot get. That being said, I'm not sure what this extra power could be or if it will be "gamebreaking" or just a neat feature that will be situational at best.
Either way, personally I don't care either way. Would I like to have the ship? Sure, it'd be fun to cruise around in. Will it make or break the game for me? Not in the slightest. If people can get 5 people to subscribe to this game, they have earned that ship
Geordi La Forge is gonna come up and knock your lights ou...oh who am I kidding, he isn't half the engineer that Montgomery Scott was!
Nono! Leave the cloak in! Then you dont have to look at it!
sorry to burst your bubble but its getting a non combat cloaking device :P
HAHAHAH OHHH SNAP!
btw why arnt you on my friends list ingame yet
This would greatly disappoint me. I keep hopeing they add a sector via a time portal that is all TOS. And that you could actually get and fly the old scout and destroyer designs. And the 3 nacelle Dreadnaught. That would be cool.
Franz Joseph Designs rock!
Thanks,
Duncan
Did you know that it is IMPOSSIBLE to travel beyond the speed of sound?
Did you know the Earth is flat?
Yes, Gene said that about the nacelles, about the designs and the requirements. But, like so many things throughout history, they change through time. It used to be that aircraft couldn't pass the speed of sound. Then it used to be they couldn't without making a sonic boom. Now? They can do it like it's nobody's business and be silent about it.
Engineering problems get solved, is what I'm saying. Yeah, maybe in TOS it had to be a certain way, but time's moved on and up. Maybe it doesn't have to be that way anymore.
1: Brand new ship even though from early in the timeline. Let's not forget, in JJTrek anything goes.
2: Irrelevant: That's being able to run on 1 engine and has nothing to do with the design stipulation of an even number of nacelles ( which is what Gene said, he did not say "an even number of warp coils" )
3: irrelevant: see 2:
4:: I disagree. 50% visible means across the beam of the ship. Or side on if you will. Prometheus clearly falls within this rule as it does on the forward facing view rule.
5: I'm not sure that matters either. Nobody said anything about equality in size.
did you know that you are confusing science with science fiction?
Gene could have made up what he liked, it is after all. make-believe. He chose to set out a certain set of design rules.
From what I recall, the Prometheus has one pop-up micro-nacelle for the Saucer, and the other hulls getting a pair of the more noticable nacelles.
Not true. The Lakota was not a refit. It was a brand new ship commissioned in the same year that the fight with the Defiant occurred. Yes it was an excelsior hull design but nothing about it otherwise was an old Excelsior.
The 'Alpha' hull of the Prometheus-class (aka the 'Bridge section') has two pop-up micro-nacelles - one dorsal, one ventral. It's hard to spot, but it's there.
Also, Just because ONE SHIP was shown to have a cloaking device, does not mean that if some one uses all of the Galaxy X "costume peices" they would automatically get a cloaking device..
I sware every chance some people get they try to find an excuse to give a Federation ship a Cloaking device.. All because Sisko had one I bet.. :rolleyes:
The (admittedly non-canon, but written by those who are primarily involved in the production & 'science') TNG Technical Manual, the TNG ep 'Eye of the Beholder'', and the VGR ep 'Nightingale' seems to disprove this.
Then he died and people changed those rules. An example being the new trek movie, and some of the other examples that defy said rules.
Gene created Star Trek but it doesn't exist by his mandates.
refit is taking an existing vessel and modifying it with more modern equipment. The Lakota was a brand new ship giving rise to a brand new class. The Lakota refit is the class. Not meaning it's a refitted Excelsior but a new subtype of ship.
It's not relevant to the argument though as despite being 90 years old the excelsior class was still in service ( because there were no films or programs in that timeline to warrant a change )
Just checked the episode: 0:27:30 onwards - states that the Lakota is under-going a refit.
It was a refit. It was an outdated ship that had been given upgraded phasers and quantum torpedos. It doesn't say if any other systems were upgraded or not, but it was a ship that was brought out of service to be used once again. Anyway, I'm getting ready to watch the episode again (this thread got me wanting to watch some DS9!) so I'll let you know what is said exactly in the episode.
You're only half right. The C-store example you are right on, it had been a while since reading about that. The multitude of different bonus items from different vendors doesn't impact the game balance. The only 2 that are relevant at end game would be the tribble and maybe the Borg BO. Though they certainly don't break game balance.
Either way, offering a ship with a neat cannon shouldn't be too game breaking. Now that cloak they are talking about giving it might be. We'll just have to wait and see I guess.
you are wrong. It was commissioned in 2372. Same year as the episode takes place. It was a brand new subtype built for the war. But you can keep calling me a liar as much as you like.
The registry number (NCC-42768) suggests otherwise.
Edit: Memory Beta, the soft-canon source, also calls it an Excelsior Class vessel.
No. The line is: "The Lakota won't be done with it's refit [...]". No mention of weapon systems until O'Brien's exclamation as the battle commences.
However, as a self-confessed Treknology geek, I have to ask: Which book gives the official commission date?
The Enterprise D was the first of it's kind. Many more were made after that. By the time of All Good Things only around 35-40 years have passed since the Enterprise D was launched. I can't believe that the Excelsior could still be in service after 90 years and the Galaxy wouldn't be after only 40. If you have proof somewhere that the Galaxy isn't in service I'll gladly concede on that point.