How about something for us Klinks... a new tier 5 ship would be great... or how about a mission?! I will not recruit 5 people for a stinking fed ship which i will never use... Kingon love please... All we have is pvp...
Any item, ship or power that's made available for promotions should also at least be made available in the C-Store to purchase.
That should be a no brainer on Cryptic's part.
This is a carrot. For referrals.
If they made the carrot attainable through an easier means, like the C-Store ... the carrot loses its value. It is no longer an incentive for referrals.
If they made the carrot attainable through an easier means, like the C-Store ... the carrot loses its value. It is no longer an incentive for referrals.
there is no incentive for the referred people to play the game either.
If they made the carrot attainable through an easier means, like the C-Store ... the carrot loses its value. It is no longer an incentive for referrals.
I'd still personally like to see it as a reward for EITHER bulk of referrals or retention of any one referral.
Ie. get 5 friends to resub an extra month (the current model) or get one friend to sub for 5 additional months (6 total, including the boxed gametime). Having two criteria would make it more attainable and I think the longterm healthier approach would be to encourage each of us to get one friend who will stick around than to get 5 who may not.
I'd still personally like to see it as a reward for EITHER bulk of referrals or retention of any one referral.
Ie. get 5 friends to resub an extra month (the current model) or get one friend to sub for 5 additional months (6 total, including the boxed gametime). Having two criteria would make it more attainable and I think the longterm healthier approach would be to encourage each of us to get one friend who will stick around than to get 5 who may not.
That's been one of the better ideas I've seen come out of this discussion. It addresses the complaint of 5 referrals being too many. But then still keeps to the core of the idea. Having one player sub for 6 months. You do the game a service. Mathematically their sub fees equal the effort of 5 friends. But you give the game a sub with some retention value.
I like that idea.
I find the suggestion to put this ship directly into the C-Store is a cop out. It does not consider the intent of the referral program and really only serves to fill players "wants" with no real consideration of what the company is trying to do.
I find your idea actually works within the framework of what the company is trying to do. While still making it easier to obtain the item. Since most of us interested in the thing can probably find one really close friend to go through 6 months of subscribing. Where finding 5 friends is ... less likely.
That's been one of the better ideas I've seen come out of this discussion. It addresses the complaint of 5 referrals being too many. But then still keeps to the core of the idea. Having one player sub for 6 months. You do the game a service. Mathematically their sub fees equal the effort of 5 friends. But you give the game a sub with some retention value.
I like that idea.
I find the suggestion to put this ship directly into the C-Store is a cop out. It does not consider the intent of the referral program and really only serves to fill players "wants" with no real consideration of what the company is trying to do.
I find your idea actually works within the framework of what the company is trying to do. While still making it easier to obtain the item. Since most of us interested in the thing can probably find one really close friend to go through 6 months of subscribing. Where finding 5 friends is ... less likely.
I disagree completely. By putting incredibly sought after items as a referral only ploy, you alienate a large percentage of the player base by putting the item out of their reach. The only friends I have that would be remotely interested in playing STO already bought the game. We were all there since closed beta. Out of those 12, only myself and one other are still playing and that's only due to my having lifetime and his having a year long membership. the others stopped playing less than 2 months after launch. That's why they're going for the 5 friends with one month payed for approach, they probably don't think they can get but 5% of those who buy in to remain more than one month so they think getting 5 "suckers" to buy in for a month will net them more cash.
They're better off making it for sale in the C-Store and make the cash they can from there as well and avoid ****ing of the those who are loyal c-store spenders.
I disagree completely. By putting incredibly sought after items as a referral only ploy, you alienate a large percentage of the player base by putting the item out of their reach.
It's a carrot. On a stick. It's supposed to be just out of your reach. If you really want this item, you can go get it.
Your suggestion ruins the incentive of the referral program. For what? So you can get this ship? That's not the goal of the referral program.
They're better off making it for sale in the C-Store and make the cash they can from there as well and avoid ****ing of the those who are loyal c-store spenders.
The C-Store will have other things in it. That people will pay money for. The more hype and more posts threads like this get ... the more likely Cryptic gets the message that this is the perfect carrot for the referral program. All you people want this ship so badly, you know how you can get it.
I think I've got a viable solution for Cryptic concerning how to make the Galaxy X functional and fair in-game.
Cryptic has stated before that they would have to make the big cannon functional if they made it but that seems unfair at first. This is how you do it.
First, The Galaxy X should be a tier 5 cruiser. Sell it in the C-Store for 1000 credits. Give it 4 rear slots and only 3 standard front slots with an auxiliary slot for 1 single beam array of any energy type. Place a special button for the use of that slot on the hud. When used, the big cannon would fire a blast similar to Beam Overload 3. The off-set would be a 2-fold. After using the big cannon, it sets all energy weapons on a 20 second cool down and places the use of the big cannon on a 2 minute cool down.
So after use, you would have only torpedoes for a 20 second count. The other off-set would be that you only have 3 standard forward slots since your trading up 1 for big cannon use only. As far as I can tell, the trade offs puts it on equal footing with other Tier 5 cruisers, adds something cool to the game and does so without adding an unfair advantage.
Thoughts?
I'm with you on all counts except the cooldown: halve that. Tricobalts only take a minute to cool down, and they're insta-kill buttons all the way up to a pretty close-level opponent (at least in PvE). And for PvPs and STFs, 20 seconds is a long time to go without active defenses.
The plan is for 5 subscribers for at least one month. That equates to;
~$20 for game purchase (5 x $20 = $100) + ~15$ for a 1 month subscription (5 x $15 = $75) = ~$175
Why would they put this in the C-Store for $10 or $20?
Just curious about the thinking there...
Just as a math adjustment:
At $20 a piece, Atari isn't seeing any money off those sold boxed copies unless you buy them from the Atari store or consider retailers ordering more copies to replace them.
Someone who gets five successful referrals also gets 2000 Cryptic points, a $25 value.
So, in theory, it might be worth putting it up for $50 to calm people down, if it would work, because that amount wouldn't conflict too heavily with the existing model and would retain RAF as the preferred way to go given the other bonuses. But do you think a $50 C-Store option (4000 Cryptic Points) would make things better or worse?
If they're intending this to be an item obtained by bringing in at least $175 to $200 (5 game purchases + at least 5 1 month subs), why put in it the C-Store for $12?
The plan is for 5 subscribers for at least one month. That equates to;
~$20 for game purchase (5 x $20 = $100) + ~15$ for a 1 month subscription (5 x $15 = $75) = ~$175
Why would they put this in the C-Store for $10 or $20?
Just curious about the thinking there...
I can answer that. How many people do you really think Cryptic will get to be able to actually complete that magical 5 player sign up with 1 month played? Probably as many as will actually just buy 5 more copies of the game them selves and pay for a month of service for each just for the Galaxy X. I bet you no more than 20 - 30 people will actually pull it off, if that.
30 x 175 = $5250
No I can imagine that even at only 10 bucks a pop that they could sell between 2000 and 5000 at the C-store.
10 x 2000 = $20000
10 x 5000 = $50000
Even if they only sold 1000 copies, they would still end up with twice what they would make with it as referral only. Hell, sell 500 copies at 20 bucks and you do the same.
As for complainers, sure, there will always be those who thinks they should just get it all for free. I don't count those fanatics in my numbers. Cryptic wants money and I'm happy to give them some, but I can't get 5 other clowns to do the same and I'm not crazy enough to spend 175 bucks to do it myself.
... the more likely Cryptic gets the message that this is the perfect carrot for the referral program. All you people want this ship so badly, you know how you can get it.
Except that no matter how much we want it, we can't pull friends who want to play STO out of our collective asses if they don't exist.
There needs to be an alternative for those of us with Star Trek and MMO loving friends whom Cryptic has already alienated with an STO purchase.
I can answer that. How many people do you really think Cryptic will get to be able to actually complete that magical 5 player sign up with 1 month played?
I have no idea how many, and neither do you or anyone else. You're guessing at how successful the program will be. You've not the slightest clue whether it will work or not.
Probably as many as will actually just buy 5 more copies of the game them selves and pay for a month of service for each just for the Galaxy X. I bet you no more than 20 - 30 people will actually pull it off, if that.
What actual real data are you basing this on?
People who are able/want to buy 5 more copies of the game and 5 more monthly subs for a month just to get the ship is no difference in income for them than 1 person inviting 5 friends to do the same. It's still ~$175 to $200 of income vs. $12. That's simple math.
As for "only" 20 to 30 people buying those 5 copies etc., you're guessing.
Except that no matter how much we want it, we can't pull friends who want to play STO out of our collective asses if they don't exist.
Then don't pull friends. Get strangers. Go to the local mall. Or gaming shop. Solicit. Go door to door. Run your own contest through your own website. Come up with a plan.
Cryptic just wants you to get them people. They don't have to be your close personal friends.
Then don't pull friends. Get strangers. Go to the local mall. Or gaming shop. Solicit. Go door to door. Run your own contest through your own website. Come up with a plan.
Cryptic just wants you to get them people. They don't have to be your close personal friends.
You are truly cracked man. Fine, you go out and ring yourself some door bells, I'm going to continue going up Cryptic's TRIBBLE until this makes it in the C-Store. Don't get me wrong, I understand Cryptic's reasoning in doing this and why you think its smart business sense on their part, but not why you're defending the idea like it will personally benefit you in some way if it stays recruitment only. Why do you care if people have the option to buy it from the c-store? Does it negative effect you in some way?
...and no Shard-Warrior, I have nothing to base those figures on what-so-ever. Nobody has anything "real" to base any calculations on. Its just a guess based on how the game has done so far and how I've seen it perceived in the gaming community over the last 2 months. I guess we'll all see in the end. Either way, I'll continue to push for it's release in the C-store.
Why do you care if people have the option to buy it from the c-store? Does it negative effect you in some way?
Well, for starters, if he is willing to go out and do the legwork and find 5 other subscribers whereas you can just buy it cheap, then yes it has a negative effect on him. You got the same thing he did without doing the work to get it.
There are a great number of "exclusive item mongers" who would also have issue with "exclusives" being dumped into the C-Store for everyone to buy.
You are truly cracked man. Fine, you go out and ring yourself some door bells, I'm going to continue going up Cryptic's TRIBBLE until this makes it in the C-Store.
I don't want the ship.
You do.
That's the difference.
There's no need for them to put this in the C-Store. They want you to bring referrals to the game. And have provided a carrot. You are going about this the wrong way.
Don't get me wrong, I understand Cryptic's reasoning in doing this and why you think its smart business sense on their part,
It's not that I think it's smart business sense. I merely think your logic is faulty. And you are walking into a brick wall here. You want the ship. They've given you a way to get the ship. If they put it in the C-Store, they ruin the entire point of their referral program. You're argument isn't going to sway them. Because it doesn't take into account the reason why they're doing this program.
Why do you care if people have the option to buy it from the c-store?
I don't care. I just think that your entire premise is going nowhere. If you want this ship as badly as you seem to, you have options to get it. You just don't like those options.
You have a choice. Get the ship. Or don't.
They put this in the C-Store and they cut their nose to spite their face. It won't work. It's not part of their plan. It's not "smart business" ... it's just business.
If they put it in the C-Store, they ruin the entire point of their referral program.
That's definitely the point he isn't getting. The goal of the marketing plan is to bring in new customers and subscribers. Just dumping into the C-Store does not accomplish that.
That's definitely the point he isn't getting. The goal of the marketing plan is to bring in new customers and subscribers. Just dumping into the C-Store does not accomplish that.
Why not give out C-store points as a reward for recruiting people?
Give people who bring someone new into the game who subscribes the equivalent of $15 worth of C-Store points for each person they recruit.
As thin as the content and options already are in this game, we need to STOP making more exclusive stuff. We need more general content, and putting the ship in the C-Store is a lot better option than making it yet another exclusive that will make it rare (and thus, the Dev time spent on it a waste of effort).
My logic is fine. The ship isn't the only thing you get out of the referral offer and the people who can will still go the referral way rather than spend 20 bucks in the C-Store, you would be stupid to do other wise. Why would anyone spend 20 buck when they could do it for free. I get the logic, I just think its crappy logic.
They're offing a very prized ship among many for something that not everyone is capable of doing. The only people who will go for this game no matter how hard you push would be Trek fans and MMO players, both of which are more than likely fully aware of this game by now and have either already bought it or have no interest in doing so. Telling people that if they want it they'll find a way is pure and total bull **** and you know it.
The ship isn't the only thing you get out of the referral offer and the people who can will still go the referral way rather than spend 20 bucks in the C-Store, you would be stupid to do other wise. Why would anyone spend 20 buck when they could do it for free. I get the logic, I just think its crappy logic.
You're still not getting it. This is not about spending money for an in-game item in the C-Store. The overall goal is to bring in new subscribers and to reward those customers who help achieve that goal. How does putting this ship into the C-Store accomplish that?
Telling people that if they want it they'll find a way is pure and total bull **** and you know it.
I disagree. If you want anything bad enough, the onus is on you to do what is necessary to get it.
I get it fine. It will not work. They will make more money from the C-Store and **** off less customers.
My opinion.
Thanks for derailing my thread about how to make the Galaxy X function fairly in game, a thread which was not created to discuss the logic of the referral program.
I disagree. If you want anything bad enough, the onus is on you to do what is necessary to get it.
It seems YOU don't get it, because you're buying into the cynical situation Cryptic have created without even thinking about it.
"Ooooh if you want the Galaxy X so bad then why don't you go and get 5 peope to subcribe!"
Nevermind the fact that most of us are simply incapable of getting 5 people even interested in STO, let alone subscribe. The fact is Cryptic are attempting to force us to do their job for them (marketing) by using something they KNOW we all want.
Comments
That should be a no brainer on Cryptic's part.
This is a carrot. For referrals.
If they made the carrot attainable through an easier means, like the C-Store ... the carrot loses its value. It is no longer an incentive for referrals.
there is no incentive for the referred people to play the game either.
Then don't bother with the referral program?
I'd still personally like to see it as a reward for EITHER bulk of referrals or retention of any one referral.
Ie. get 5 friends to resub an extra month (the current model) or get one friend to sub for 5 additional months (6 total, including the boxed gametime). Having two criteria would make it more attainable and I think the longterm healthier approach would be to encourage each of us to get one friend who will stick around than to get 5 who may not.
That's been one of the better ideas I've seen come out of this discussion. It addresses the complaint of 5 referrals being too many. But then still keeps to the core of the idea. Having one player sub for 6 months. You do the game a service. Mathematically their sub fees equal the effort of 5 friends. But you give the game a sub with some retention value.
I like that idea.
I find the suggestion to put this ship directly into the C-Store is a cop out. It does not consider the intent of the referral program and really only serves to fill players "wants" with no real consideration of what the company is trying to do.
I find your idea actually works within the framework of what the company is trying to do. While still making it easier to obtain the item. Since most of us interested in the thing can probably find one really close friend to go through 6 months of subscribing. Where finding 5 friends is ... less likely.
I disagree completely. By putting incredibly sought after items as a referral only ploy, you alienate a large percentage of the player base by putting the item out of their reach. The only friends I have that would be remotely interested in playing STO already bought the game. We were all there since closed beta. Out of those 12, only myself and one other are still playing and that's only due to my having lifetime and his having a year long membership. the others stopped playing less than 2 months after launch. That's why they're going for the 5 friends with one month payed for approach, they probably don't think they can get but 5% of those who buy in to remain more than one month so they think getting 5 "suckers" to buy in for a month will net them more cash.
They're better off making it for sale in the C-Store and make the cash they can from there as well and avoid ****ing of the those who are loyal c-store spenders.
For how much?
The plan is for 5 subscribers for at least one month. That equates to;
~$20 for game purchase (5 x $20 = $100) + ~15$ for a 1 month subscription (5 x $15 = $75) = ~$175
Why would they put this in the C-Store for $10 or $20?
Just curious about the thinking there...
It's a carrot. On a stick. It's supposed to be just out of your reach. If you really want this item, you can go get it.
Your suggestion ruins the incentive of the referral program. For what? So you can get this ship? That's not the goal of the referral program.
The C-Store will have other things in it. That people will pay money for. The more hype and more posts threads like this get ... the more likely Cryptic gets the message that this is the perfect carrot for the referral program. All you people want this ship so badly, you know how you can get it.
I'm with you on all counts except the cooldown: halve that. Tricobalts only take a minute to cool down, and they're insta-kill buttons all the way up to a pretty close-level opponent (at least in PvE). And for PvPs and STFs, 20 seconds is a long time to go without active defenses.
Just as a math adjustment:
At $20 a piece, Atari isn't seeing any money off those sold boxed copies unless you buy them from the Atari store or consider retailers ordering more copies to replace them.
Someone who gets five successful referrals also gets 2000 Cryptic points, a $25 value.
So, in theory, it might be worth putting it up for $50 to calm people down, if it would work, because that amount wouldn't conflict too heavily with the existing model and would retain RAF as the preferred way to go given the other bonuses. But do you think a $50 C-Store option (4000 Cryptic Points) would make things better or worse?
If they're intending this to be an item obtained by bringing in at least $175 to $200 (5 game purchases + at least 5 1 month subs), why put in it the C-Store for $12?
I recommend a social experiment. Make it cost 10,000 cryptic points. Make the referral path the easier path.
See how people react.
It'll be fun.
You could put it in the C-Store for 50 cents and you'd still have people complaining they have to buy it.
I can answer that. How many people do you really think Cryptic will get to be able to actually complete that magical 5 player sign up with 1 month played? Probably as many as will actually just buy 5 more copies of the game them selves and pay for a month of service for each just for the Galaxy X. I bet you no more than 20 - 30 people will actually pull it off, if that.
30 x 175 = $5250
No I can imagine that even at only 10 bucks a pop that they could sell between 2000 and 5000 at the C-store.
10 x 2000 = $20000
10 x 5000 = $50000
Even if they only sold 1000 copies, they would still end up with twice what they would make with it as referral only. Hell, sell 500 copies at 20 bucks and you do the same.
As for complainers, sure, there will always be those who thinks they should just get it all for free. I don't count those fanatics in my numbers. Cryptic wants money and I'm happy to give them some, but I can't get 5 other clowns to do the same and I'm not crazy enough to spend 175 bucks to do it myself.
Except that no matter how much we want it, we can't pull friends who want to play STO out of our collective asses if they don't exist.
There needs to be an alternative for those of us with Star Trek and MMO loving friends whom Cryptic has already alienated with an STO purchase.
I have no idea how many, and neither do you or anyone else. You're guessing at how successful the program will be. You've not the slightest clue whether it will work or not.
What actual real data are you basing this on?
People who are able/want to buy 5 more copies of the game and 5 more monthly subs for a month just to get the ship is no difference in income for them than 1 person inviting 5 friends to do the same. It's still ~$175 to $200 of income vs. $12. That's simple math.
As for "only" 20 to 30 people buying those 5 copies etc., you're guessing.
Then don't pull friends. Get strangers. Go to the local mall. Or gaming shop. Solicit. Go door to door. Run your own contest through your own website. Come up with a plan.
Cryptic just wants you to get them people. They don't have to be your close personal friends.
You are truly cracked man. Fine, you go out and ring yourself some door bells, I'm going to continue going up Cryptic's TRIBBLE until this makes it in the C-Store. Don't get me wrong, I understand Cryptic's reasoning in doing this and why you think its smart business sense on their part, but not why you're defending the idea like it will personally benefit you in some way if it stays recruitment only. Why do you care if people have the option to buy it from the c-store? Does it negative effect you in some way?
...and no Shard-Warrior, I have nothing to base those figures on what-so-ever. Nobody has anything "real" to base any calculations on. Its just a guess based on how the game has done so far and how I've seen it perceived in the gaming community over the last 2 months. I guess we'll all see in the end. Either way, I'll continue to push for it's release in the C-store.
Well, for starters, if he is willing to go out and do the legwork and find 5 other subscribers whereas you can just buy it cheap, then yes it has a negative effect on him. You got the same thing he did without doing the work to get it.
There are a great number of "exclusive item mongers" who would also have issue with "exclusives" being dumped into the C-Store for everyone to buy.
I don't want the ship.
You do.
That's the difference.
There's no need for them to put this in the C-Store. They want you to bring referrals to the game. And have provided a carrot. You are going about this the wrong way.
It's not that I think it's smart business sense. I merely think your logic is faulty. And you are walking into a brick wall here. You want the ship. They've given you a way to get the ship. If they put it in the C-Store, they ruin the entire point of their referral program. You're argument isn't going to sway them. Because it doesn't take into account the reason why they're doing this program.
I don't care. I just think that your entire premise is going nowhere. If you want this ship as badly as you seem to, you have options to get it. You just don't like those options.
You have a choice. Get the ship. Or don't.
They put this in the C-Store and they cut their nose to spite their face. It won't work. It's not part of their plan. It's not "smart business" ... it's just business.
Right, so ultimately you're just complaining.
That's definitely the point he isn't getting. The goal of the marketing plan is to bring in new customers and subscribers. Just dumping into the C-Store does not accomplish that.
Why not give out C-store points as a reward for recruiting people?
Give people who bring someone new into the game who subscribes the equivalent of $15 worth of C-Store points for each person they recruit.
As thin as the content and options already are in this game, we need to STOP making more exclusive stuff. We need more general content, and putting the ship in the C-Store is a lot better option than making it yet another exclusive that will make it rare (and thus, the Dev time spent on it a waste of effort).
They are. Read what the program offers (so far).
My logic is fine. The ship isn't the only thing you get out of the referral offer and the people who can will still go the referral way rather than spend 20 bucks in the C-Store, you would be stupid to do other wise. Why would anyone spend 20 buck when they could do it for free. I get the logic, I just think its crappy logic.
They're offing a very prized ship among many for something that not everyone is capable of doing. The only people who will go for this game no matter how hard you push would be Trek fans and MMO players, both of which are more than likely fully aware of this game by now and have either already bought it or have no interest in doing so. Telling people that if they want it they'll find a way is pure and total bull **** and you know it.
But it isn't. You still don't see it.
You're still not getting it. This is not about spending money for an in-game item in the C-Store. The overall goal is to bring in new subscribers and to reward those customers who help achieve that goal. How does putting this ship into the C-Store accomplish that?
I disagree. If you want anything bad enough, the onus is on you to do what is necessary to get it.
My opinion.
Thanks for derailing my thread about how to make the Galaxy X function fairly in game, a thread which was not created to discuss the logic of the referral program.
It seems YOU don't get it, because you're buying into the cynical situation Cryptic have created without even thinking about it.
"Ooooh if you want the Galaxy X so bad then why don't you go and get 5 peope to subcribe!"
Nevermind the fact that most of us are simply incapable of getting 5 people even interested in STO, let alone subscribe. The fact is Cryptic are attempting to force us to do their job for them (marketing) by using something they KNOW we all want.
That's despicable.