it would suck for a lot of people, but they could start with raising the 8k/day to say, 10k/ per account inclusive of all alts, so if you are new, with a couple alts, you get 10K and not impacted that badly. if you are a farmer, that's where the pain is, b ut it would reduce the supply of dilithium
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,666Community Moderator
It doesn't deal with the core issue, which is Demand. Yea supply will go down, but Demand will stay low as well.
And honestly I kinda don't like a 10k account wide cap. Kinda punishes people with more than one alt. And some people probably do use that farming to support alts instead of trading for Zen. Takes a lot of Dilithium to get Fleet gear and Phoenix Upgrades. It doesn't generate any Demand either.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
it would suck for a lot of people, but they could start with raising the 8k/day to say, 10k/ per account inclusive of all alts, so if you are new, with a couple alts, you get 10K and not impacted that badly. if you are a farmer, that's where the pain is, b ut it would reduce the supply of dilithium
Feels like everyone has covered this one. Raising supply isn't a solution. Raising the amount generated... or raising the limit on its real world $ value, solves nothing.
The only solution is more things in game to spend Purple rock on. If it is super optional it doesn't solve much either. It has to be something people really really want, or require. Its nice to add... speed up this crafting thing type spends. Those are however too optional to have any real effect. Now they can't start selling us bullets or whatever trek thing they would want to call a such a thing. It does have to be something people willing want to burn it on. The idea of player housing is a good one... the only draw back being your then asking DECA to do a bunch of work with zero Zen price tags attached which might be a hard sell. Then again considering they are taking over... want to build some good will, and their owners might be more willing to listen to a list that says "This is what we need to spend to stabilize the game for a long milk cycle".
IMO its probably the best time to ask for a new system like player housing 100% funded though player generated currency. (Purple rock) No Zen buys... 100% dill. Later on DECA could do things like throw housing bits as add on things in Legendary bundles or whatever they are selling in the future. The core systems though should be powered by Dill. The housing does not need to be complicated months of Dev time affair. Something simple... with BOONs that can be purchased with Dill. Think about the fleet what is it that eats the most fleet marks? Combat bonuses. Fleets keep their combat bonuses up every week. Do the same in a housing setup. Have different personal bonus projects. Feed a project 25k Dill, some EC (might as well sink some EC as well) maybe a few skill points or R&D bits... and grant a week long account wide combat bonus. (That becomes an instant sink everyone runs) Add other ones... a week long account wide crafting bonus 20% extra crafting crit chance, price that at 10k Dill or something. They could think of multiple week long bonuses we could turn on through the housing system. People will continue upping the ones they are using. They will pop the crafting bonuses before crafting events.
How about a WEEK long double event points. Which costs Purple rock. Make it so we can burn purple rock to do an event in half the time... price it out so that it is say 20% cheaper then buying an event out at the half way mark. People still play half the event, they burn some purple rock instead of Zen..... but it takes that rock out of the ->Zen pool and makes DECA money that way.
I guess they could implement that stuff without housing... but I agree that housing would be a big deal in STO. I'm not much into playing barbie but I have played enough MMOs to know that in MMO with housing it is always a popular sink. Tie it in with some combat bonus type sinks and I think that could level out the exchange pretty fast. To a point were some RP players would drop $ specifically convert to rock for housing.
It doesn't deal with the core issue, which is Demand. Yea supply will go down, but Demand will stay low as well.
And honestly I kinda don't like a 10k account wide cap. Kinda punishes people with more than one alt. And some people probably do use that farming to support alts instead of trading for Zen. Takes a lot of Dilithium to get Fleet gear and Phoenix Upgrades. It doesn't generate any Demand either.
Yep, I just used about 300,000 dil on phoenix upgrades and re-engineering to gear up a new alt on console over the upgrade weekend. That does help the exchange indirectly by reducing the supply since dil spend on characters means the dil can't be traded for zen. Not that I bother to farm since my day job pays pretty well. If I need zen I can just buy it. I don't buy dil because I get enough playing the game.
Having a cap of something like 25K a day wouldn't bother me since I don't play enough to ever earn that much outside of completing events which is a one-time 20K.
Will Arc and/or Cryptic ever fix/adjust the dillithium-zen exchange in the PC version of STO? I mean, the "sell Zen" tab shows that there are people offering to sell their Zen, but the "buy Zen" tab doesn't reflect it. One have to input an offer and wait forever until someone agrees with the offer and transfer the Zen. The Playstation version is more dynamic: the top exchange offers are there and the transaction is immediant and without delay. I'm just asking if you can standarize that. Thank you in advance
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Will Arc and/or Cryptic ever fix/adjust the dillithium-zen exchange in the PC version of STO? I mean, the "sell Zen" tab shows that there are people offering to sell their Zen, but the "buy Zen" tab doesn't reflect it. One have to input an offer and wait forever until someone agrees with the offer and transfer the Zen. The Playstation version is more dynamic: the top exchange offers are there and the transaction is immediant and without delay. I'm just asking if you can standarize that. Thank you in advance
The system works the same way across all platforms. However unlike the Playstation, PC's economy is a bit more... problematic. We don't have the Demand for Dilithium, which means we do have to wait for people who want to buy Dilithium for Zen. And even when it does go through, its at the cap of 500/1.
The fact that Playstation's DL Economy is in a healthier state is interesting, but its also a much newer iteration, whereas PC has had time to work through all of the big sinks and now... well... here we are.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
The fact that Playstation's DL Economy is in a healthier state is interesting, but its also a much newer iteration, whereas PC has had time to work through all of the big sinks and now... well... here we are.
You mean its more difficult to milk 60chars admiralty with a joystick
Will Arc and/or Cryptic ever fix/adjust the dillithium-zen exchange in the PC version of STO? I mean, the "sell Zen" tab shows that there are people offering to sell their Zen, but the "buy Zen" tab doesn't reflect it. One have to input an offer and wait forever until someone agrees with the offer and transfer the Zen. The Playstation version is more dynamic: the top exchange offers are there and the transaction is immediant and without delay. I'm just asking if you can standarize that. Thank you in advance
You have it backwards in your understanding.
The tab with all the offers in are offers to buy Zen, not sell it, i.e. Zen sellers go to that tab to see offers for their Zen from those selling Dil.
The Dil stores on both consoles operate exactly the same as PC. The PC Dil-Ex is not broken and is WIA. When the consoles get to a place where people are not creating as many fleets, those markets will also end up in the same situation as PC.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
The fact that Playstation's DL Economy is in a healthier state is interesting, but its also a much newer iteration, whereas PC has had time to work through all of the big sinks and now... well... here we are.
You mean its more difficult to milk 60chars admiralty with a joystick
Nope, it's actually just as easy as PC.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
You mean its more difficult to milk 60chars admiralty with a joystick
No. Console probably still has all the big fleets working on their Fleet Holdings, thust providing Demand, thus keeping the Exchange prices down more. It could also be a population thing as well, as Playstation alone may not be as large as PC. We PC players... all the big fleets 100% finished their holdings years ago, which was one of the biggest Demand generating sinks in the game. By now Console is probably catching up on that front, but I think Console also had all the Holdings released in one go, spreading out the focus, whereas PC had them given to us one at a time starting with the Starbase long before Console was even an option to play.
It has nothing to do with being harder to work Admiralty or not, as other than the UI, the systems should be exactly the same across both PC and Console. So I don't know where that idea even came from.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
I suspect that most of the posters here see a problem because of how long they've been playing. I've been playing since Jun (TOS Temporal Agent event) and aren't going to run out of things to spend dil on for a very long time.
What you're ultimately discussing is what happens to every online game that lasts more an a year or two: The available in-game currency ends up exceeding supply/usage need, and new players aren't burning off that excess. As such, people can suggest currency sinks until the Internet crashes; but any solution is going to be a temporary one.
As for myself...I'm expecting to need Phoenix boxes forever and my gear isn't anywhere near leveled (nevermind Epic). The "problem" that I'm having is that I'm sitting on over 250k in unrefined dil; and as a long term MMO player, I find the limit to how much dil you can refine in a day to be a bit .... silly. I'm sure that there are reasons that are considered valid; but I'm not understanding them.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,666Community Moderator
As for myself...I'm expecting to need Phoenix boxes forever and my gear isn't anywhere near leveled (nevermind Epic). The "problem" that I'm having is that I'm sitting on over 250k in unrefined dil; and as a long term MMO player, I find the limit to how much dil you can refine in a day to be a bit .... silly. I'm sure that there are reasons that are considered valid; but I'm not understanding them.
The refine limit is there to keep the market from getting flooded. If we didn't have that, the Exchange would have capped out long before it did, and we'd probably have wait times upwards of maybe a year for an order to go through. Neverwinter's Astral Diamond Exchange is in far worse shape than STO's Dilithium Exchange. Another forumite actually said the wait time in Neverwinter is around six months or so at least.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
As for myself...I'm expecting to need Phoenix boxes forever and my gear isn't anywhere near leveled (nevermind Epic). The "problem" that I'm having is that I'm sitting on over 250k in unrefined dil; and as a long term MMO player, I find the limit to how much dil you can refine in a day to be a bit .... silly. I'm sure that there are reasons that are considered valid; but I'm not understanding them.
250,000 Unrefined dil isn't that much really - only a month's worth of refining. If it's a problem, you might like to spread your time across new characters each of which will give you an additional 8,000 refining allowance. That helps prevent amassing millions of ore on just the one character. I had around 5 million unrefined ore on my main before I went multi-toon. Only now, six years later has it gradually come down to my last 100,000 on that character.
As for upgrading, be careful of using a sub-optimum method. It's very easy to waste upgrade tokens and not get the best out of them. Different upgrade tokens are more efficient if used on certain kinds and levels of gear and at the right time. There are a variety of content creator videos out there offering tips on that.
As for upgrading, be careful of using a sub-optimum method. It's very easy to waste upgrade tokens and not get the best out of them. Different upgrade tokens are more efficient if used on certain kinds and levels of gear and at the right time. There are a variety of content creator videos out there offering tips on that.
Best Tech Upgrades in game short of an Ultimate is the Phoenix Upgrades. Worth the DL to get if there's nothing in the Phoenix Store you want.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Best Tech Upgrades in game short of an Ultimate is the Phoenix Upgrades. Worth the DL to get if there's nothing in the Phoenix Store you want.
For increasing the mark level yes, by and large Phoenix upgrades are best combined with being easy to obtain. And using accelerators with them help make your stash go further.
For rarity though, there are better options in some circumstances. For example, if you have an abundance of Salvaged Technology, crafting and using Experimental Tech Upgrades offer a higher chance of a rarity increase on low mark items than a Phoenix Upgrade. I've recently used one each of these on my stock of Very Rare Mark II Isomag consoles which has resulted in lots of Epics and Ultra Rares without using a single Phoenix Upgrade. However, using Experimentals on a high mark item would be a waste as they have little to no effect at that point. With an already high mark item, using Phoenix would be better.
There are lots of ifs and buts around the upgrade system to make the most efficient use of the different upgrade tokens you have access to.
Comments
And honestly I kinda don't like a 10k account wide cap. Kinda punishes people with more than one alt. And some people probably do use that farming to support alts instead of trading for Zen. Takes a lot of Dilithium to get Fleet gear and Phoenix Upgrades. It doesn't generate any Demand either.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Feels like everyone has covered this one. Raising supply isn't a solution. Raising the amount generated... or raising the limit on its real world $ value, solves nothing.
The only solution is more things in game to spend Purple rock on. If it is super optional it doesn't solve much either. It has to be something people really really want, or require. Its nice to add... speed up this crafting thing type spends. Those are however too optional to have any real effect. Now they can't start selling us bullets or whatever trek thing they would want to call a such a thing. It does have to be something people willing want to burn it on. The idea of player housing is a good one... the only draw back being your then asking DECA to do a bunch of work with zero Zen price tags attached which might be a hard sell. Then again considering they are taking over... want to build some good will, and their owners might be more willing to listen to a list that says "This is what we need to spend to stabilize the game for a long milk cycle".
IMO its probably the best time to ask for a new system like player housing 100% funded though player generated currency. (Purple rock) No Zen buys... 100% dill. Later on DECA could do things like throw housing bits as add on things in Legendary bundles or whatever they are selling in the future. The core systems though should be powered by Dill. The housing does not need to be complicated months of Dev time affair. Something simple... with BOONs that can be purchased with Dill. Think about the fleet what is it that eats the most fleet marks? Combat bonuses. Fleets keep their combat bonuses up every week. Do the same in a housing setup. Have different personal bonus projects. Feed a project 25k Dill, some EC (might as well sink some EC as well) maybe a few skill points or R&D bits... and grant a week long account wide combat bonus. (That becomes an instant sink everyone runs) Add other ones... a week long account wide crafting bonus 20% extra crafting crit chance, price that at 10k Dill or something. They could think of multiple week long bonuses we could turn on through the housing system. People will continue upping the ones they are using. They will pop the crafting bonuses before crafting events.
How about a WEEK long double event points. Which costs Purple rock. Make it so we can burn purple rock to do an event in half the time... price it out so that it is say 20% cheaper then buying an event out at the half way mark. People still play half the event, they burn some purple rock instead of Zen..... but it takes that rock out of the ->Zen pool and makes DECA money that way.
I guess they could implement that stuff without housing... but I agree that housing would be a big deal in STO. I'm not much into playing barbie but I have played enough MMOs to know that in MMO with housing it is always a popular sink. Tie it in with some combat bonus type sinks and I think that could level out the exchange pretty fast. To a point were some RP players would drop $ specifically convert to rock for housing.
Yep, I just used about 300,000 dil on phoenix upgrades and re-engineering to gear up a new alt on console over the upgrade weekend. That does help the exchange indirectly by reducing the supply since dil spend on characters means the dil can't be traded for zen. Not that I bother to farm since my day job pays pretty well. If I need zen I can just buy it. I don't buy dil because I get enough playing the game.
Having a cap of something like 25K a day wouldn't bother me since I don't play enough to ever earn that much outside of completing events which is a one-time 20K.
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The system works the same way across all platforms. However unlike the Playstation, PC's economy is a bit more... problematic. We don't have the Demand for Dilithium, which means we do have to wait for people who want to buy Dilithium for Zen. And even when it does go through, its at the cap of 500/1.
The fact that Playstation's DL Economy is in a healthier state is interesting, but its also a much newer iteration, whereas PC has had time to work through all of the big sinks and now... well... here we are.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
You mean its more difficult to milk 60chars admiralty with a joystick
You have it backwards in your understanding.
The tab with all the offers in are offers to buy Zen, not sell it, i.e. Zen sellers go to that tab to see offers for their Zen from those selling Dil.
The Dil stores on both consoles operate exactly the same as PC. The PC Dil-Ex is not broken and is WIA. When the consoles get to a place where people are not creating as many fleets, those markets will also end up in the same situation as PC.
Nope, it's actually just as easy as PC.
No. Console probably still has all the big fleets working on their Fleet Holdings, thust providing Demand, thus keeping the Exchange prices down more. It could also be a population thing as well, as Playstation alone may not be as large as PC. We PC players... all the big fleets 100% finished their holdings years ago, which was one of the biggest Demand generating sinks in the game. By now Console is probably catching up on that front, but I think Console also had all the Holdings released in one go, spreading out the focus, whereas PC had them given to us one at a time starting with the Starbase long before Console was even an option to play.
It has nothing to do with being harder to work Admiralty or not, as other than the UI, the systems should be exactly the same across both PC and Console. So I don't know where that idea even came from.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
What you're ultimately discussing is what happens to every online game that lasts more an a year or two: The available in-game currency ends up exceeding supply/usage need, and new players aren't burning off that excess. As such, people can suggest currency sinks until the Internet crashes; but any solution is going to be a temporary one.
As for myself...I'm expecting to need Phoenix boxes forever and my gear isn't anywhere near leveled (nevermind Epic). The "problem" that I'm having is that I'm sitting on over 250k in unrefined dil; and as a long term MMO player, I find the limit to how much dil you can refine in a day to be a bit .... silly. I'm sure that there are reasons that are considered valid; but I'm not understanding them.
The refine limit is there to keep the market from getting flooded. If we didn't have that, the Exchange would have capped out long before it did, and we'd probably have wait times upwards of maybe a year for an order to go through. Neverwinter's Astral Diamond Exchange is in far worse shape than STO's Dilithium Exchange. Another forumite actually said the wait time in Neverwinter is around six months or so at least.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
As for upgrading, be careful of using a sub-optimum method. It's very easy to waste upgrade tokens and not get the best out of them. Different upgrade tokens are more efficient if used on certain kinds and levels of gear and at the right time. There are a variety of content creator videos out there offering tips on that.
Best Tech Upgrades in game short of an Ultimate is the Phoenix Upgrades. Worth the DL to get if there's nothing in the Phoenix Store you want.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
For increasing the mark level yes, by and large Phoenix upgrades are best combined with being easy to obtain. And using accelerators with them help make your stash go further.
For rarity though, there are better options in some circumstances. For example, if you have an abundance of Salvaged Technology, crafting and using Experimental Tech Upgrades offer a higher chance of a rarity increase on low mark items than a Phoenix Upgrade. I've recently used one each of these on my stock of Very Rare Mark II Isomag consoles which has resulted in lots of Epics and Ultra Rares without using a single Phoenix Upgrade. However, using Experimentals on a high mark item would be a waste as they have little to no effect at that point. With an already high mark item, using Phoenix would be better.
There are lots of ifs and buts around the upgrade system to make the most efficient use of the different upgrade tokens you have access to.