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Vovin Obelisk Carrier - Discussion
questerius
Member Posts: 8,487 Arc User
The long awaited info on the carrier is up.
https://www.playstartrekonline.com/en/news/article/11569808
I'll leave it to others to discuss how it looks.
I find the console the most interesting part:
Console - Universal - Subspace Fracture Tunneling Field
We are not sure how this Ancient civilization managed to apply the principles of Subspace Travel to such a precise degree as to enable them to use it in battle. By creating a Subspace Fracture, the ship can "tunnel" towards a target traversing a vast distance in what appears to be instantaneous movement due to the differences in spacetime density between dimensions. What we do know is that this technology should not fall into the wrong hands.
This console provides a substantial passive bonus to Hull Regeneration.
https://www.playstartrekonline.com/en/news/article/11569808
I'll leave it to others to discuss how it looks.
I find the console the most interesting part:
Console - Universal - Subspace Fracture Tunneling Field
We are not sure how this Ancient civilization managed to apply the principles of Subspace Travel to such a precise degree as to enable them to use it in battle. By creating a Subspace Fracture, the ship can "tunnel" towards a target traversing a vast distance in what appears to be instantaneous movement due to the differences in spacetime density between dimensions. What we do know is that this technology should not fall into the wrong hands.
This console provides a substantial passive bonus to Hull Regeneration.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Comments
It's a carrier so tactical is almost useless on it. Sounds like an easy choice for science and control.
I've flown several dedicated carriers before--the Rynkodan, the Fe'rang, the Jarok, the Jem'Hadar Vanguard Carrier, a brief stint in the Gok'tad. Not a one of them forced me to choose between having decent Tac options or decent Sci. Never been much of a fan of pure Sci builds, and I don't trust pets to survive long enough. If I can't have a minimum of LT Sci and LTC Tac, I'm not flying her.
The only thing missing is there really should have been Obelisk Swarmers squadrons. If anything what calling out for Squadrons it was Swarmer's.
Not sure about the trait but overall the devs have done a great job on this one.
I have a few carrier toons. One is flying the Briostrys, another one the Compiler dread... I've been looking for a carrier that looks more like it could be a Starfleet-built ship. I think this new ship is interesting in that regard. I mean, we had ships like the Jupiter but to me that always looked like a big cruiser, and ships like the Monitor - well, I just don't associate a Nebula variant with being a real carrier. It doesn't really work in my mind. This new ship might fit better in that sense.
Ok, this was already possible to some extent with traits like Hive defenses, the console from the Rex escort, consoles like Defensive Drone Guardians etc.
But only with Hive defenses could you get permanent 'hangar' ships without having a hangar. Now, having up to 8 additional swarmers will be a great addition for those who want to fly non-carrier 'carriers'.
Just like how I never could see the Monitor as a carrier, there are ships that don't have hangar capacities when everything about the ship just screams that they should. Like that very long Ba'ul ship, or the S31 battlecruiser. It helps that they're both ships that have either antiproton weapons and consoles, or phasers that look a lot like Ba'ul AP weapons (if I remember the last episodes from DIS S2 well).
It will be nice to have the option of letting these ships behave like carriers.
My opinion on the carrier is Thank Q its a Command Spec. I never understood making Intel carriers because to me Intel powers don't synergize very well with carrier operations. For me Command makes more sense as Suppression Barrage + FAW = easier for hanger pets to hit.
Also honestly I never got into Temporal spec powers because of needing to have so many abilities to make the most out of the full mechanic.
Such an odd BOff layout, why would you want Miracle Worker on a 3/3 Carrier? MW is great to use as a force multiplier of the main ship, but you're missing a quarter of the weapons of Flight Deck Carrier, so it can't multiply much... Command is cool, though it's on many other carriers as at least a Lt. Comm and a small number at Commander.
Bumping up the stats of the hull modifier to 1.65 (tied for third highest hull mod) and the turnrate up to 8 is novel, but nothing that will take me out of any of my current carriers for any length of time.
Starship Trait - Reconstructive Conversion Wave
"Activating any Hull Healing Bridge Officer Ability or any Command Bridge Officer Ability causes your ship to emit a 5km wave of Antiproton Damage. For each Foe damaged by this wave, you and your pets will be granted a temporary heal-over-time effect that restores a small percentage of your max health while active."
That is basically two past Event carriers' traits stapled together, Fiery Entrance from the Fe'rang and Reactive Repair Nanites from the Sarr Theln. Better than nothing and possibly amusing, I guess, unless the numbers are way higher than I expect for damage and healing.
For looks, I'll have to see it in game before deciding.
For the way I build it's either make the Lt Cmdr seat a sci and have 4 sci powers and 2 tac, which means FAW/overload and an attack pattern only and having more sci powers than I really need. Or alternatively I make it a tac seat meaning 5 tac powers and 1 sci, which means only a hazard emitters and as a tank if I get hit with subnuc spam from iconians or similar I'm up the creek. the ensign seat being career locked is a deal breaker for me and knocks the ship out of being a daily driver so to speak. Can it be made to work, it most certainly can. Any ship in game that's t6 can be made to work and deal great damage. However that ensign seat being locked forces a false choice on people they shouldn't have to make. I would almost rather the Lt Cmdr seat be career locked and then the ensign and LT seats be universal over what we have now.
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It's an easy choice for torpedo builds (via mix armament synergy and concentrate firepower). 3 is plenty for most firing cycles and it's buffed by command to boot. I've built torpedo carriers before and they can be deadly splitting the power with EPG. Here with an ENG focus you have more opportunity to max out the carrier aspect with advanced hangar consoles instead of sci magic. You can still try for that with the lt.cmdr. universal if you want to, but it's an easier ship to build as an ENG/TAC carrier.
This is far, far from a bad layout. And of bad layouts, you can still make something like a Excelsior work well with the least bit of imagination (ie. spamming single target exotic ENG abilities, for which there is now plenty to fill that ENG monster with.) STO is not a game that requires min-max damage potential like we're playing Shadow of the Erdtree in ISA. Something not ideal? Take that as a build challenge to get the most performance out of it anyway. That's a rich target for compelling gameplay and iteration along build paths less traveled. See. torpedo carriers or team buff ships that can make a difference in the playtime of low level randoms (for which MW-Cmd with heavier ENG could also play to).
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Negativity aside, this is something that I can build on and make it an effective pet-spam build.
I am hoping that in the near future, the Advanced Obelisk in the Lobi store is moved to become an Epic Phoenix Pack selection. That 4th console for the set that the Lobi Obelisk has is going to get expensive if I decide to have more of my toons use that ship and that set. Other than the console, I don't see a reason to shell out 800 Lobi for a T5 ship.
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Repeating my self a bit here a quick copy and past from Discord I made
"This looks super strong to me for pet builds. EPtW for pets, Inspiration to trigger Kodai Command to spam more torps and out DPS and out torpedo Valkyries. It has all the critical pet triggers to max out pet damage. Needs of the Many which is essential for top end pet builds, CF3, +20Aux for faster bay to trigger more Scramble Fighters. Miracle Worker which is essential for Align Shield Frequencie to stack up that 100% damage boost and 30% firing haste (trait triggers)"
As a carrier pilot the Obelisk is going straight within the top spots of my lists of strongest carriers in game.
Obviously i will get it and level it, but i do not appreciate the visual style.
Console might be useful, but more geared towards PVP.
Trait is situational.
Boff layout is decent enough for a full carrier, but i very rarely play full carriers.
When i do it is usually with a thematic build. A themed build with swarmers is a road preferably not taken for me.
The Original Obelisk was one of the more visually interesting ships in the game when it was introduced. At first i loved the ship & enjoyed playing with it. But it was soon outpaced & overshadowed by by the unending stream of better ships. It simply wasn't sustainable as a main ship in the evolving meta.
It had been my hope an update would fix many of its deficiencies.
This is not so. While there are many improvements over the Original Obelisk, they feel far "too little, too late" to impress anyone. "Underwhelming" & "Not impressed" is what i hear YouTubers say about the BOff Layout echoing what CasualSAB & Stu1701 have said.
It saddens me to only see a small handful of players enthusiastic for it while the majority plan to scrap it once they've ripped the Console out.
I know it won't be made into a Flight Deck Carrier, or get the BOff Layout improved.
The following changes will help to close the gap without breaking the meta but will go a long way toward making the Vovin Obelisk more flexible & viable as a main ship. Build options are as important as the 'ship Barbie' if not more.
🔹 Squadron version of the Obelisk Swarmer pets
🔹 4/4 Weapons Layout
These changes will help to deliver on the hype/backstory of being more advanced & powerful ships. i look at it like the Original Obelisk is STO's analog to the first generation carrier prototypes of the early 1900s, & the T6 Vovin Obelisk should be comparably more advanced, akin to modern carriers of 1990s-2020s.
Additionally, ALL CARRIERS should have a Spotter mechanic, whereby the Carrier's Weapons get Range, Accuracy & Damage bonuses when they target enemies engaged by their pets.
Engineering Carriers should have Hull & Hull Regen buff/bonus on its pets.
Thank you for designing a beautiful ship, and have a nice weekend!
The Borg Assimilator
Live Long and Prosper.🖖[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
At least with consoles you can add 2 universal for whatever and for a directed energy build you have the option to add +damage to advanced hangar consoles in the engineering slots.
One thing to keep in mind.
The youtubers you mentioned are not specialized full carrier players, but rather focused on energy builds.
If you go for energy weapon damage then anything with less than a 5/3 layout (let alone a 3/3) will feel underwhelming.
Personally i can see the value of the boff layout for a full carrier build, but i find hybrid builds a bit more enjoyable.
All the talk about bad boff layout more from Stu1701 goes to show how little he knows about high end carrier builds. Commander Command with low rank MW is the best and strongest options from Carriers yet Stu1701 was downplaying how bad that is and how it should be something else. That because they are looking at it as an Energy or Torp boat point of view and not looking at it as a Carrier for Carrier builds point of view.
Neither of them mentioned its advantages over other Carriers, neither of them talked about the amazing new options for Carrier builds or really dived into the stuff like effectively having 3 and half bays of pets with EPtW boosting them. It was just an unimpressed pass away comment because they are not taking into account Carrier builds only there energy and torp boats.
Did you know due to Inspiration and Command Kodai the Obelisk can use stronger Fed pets then most other carriers can use and pump out more pet torpedoes by a large amount then most other Carriers? This is the type of thing that has been missed because Stu1701 and CasualSAB don't run high end carrier builds.
Spot on, neither of them are specialized Carrier players. Both are great when it comes to Energy or Torp boats but I am not as keen on there Carrier content.
Just because 2 players can make a video and post it on YouTube, it doesn't make them an authority on what constitutes a 'good' ship. In STO, it literally is 'each to their own' when it comes to ships. What might be 'poor' to one person might be 'heaven-sent' to another. You give an example of players who will only like a ship if it's a 5/3, and that's it.
As for your 'recommendations'.
As far as I remember, there was mention of no more squadrons on a live stream some months back, but it would nice to have a squadron of swarmers. However, they absolutely will not go the 4/4 route. I don't think they have ever changed the weapons hardpoints on an announced ship, like ever.
Spotter mechanic sounds good, BUT, should only apply to 3/3 full carriers, and ONLY accuracy/crit-h would apply. There's no logical reason for there to be a damage bonus just because you have better targeting data. Range is a different beast, and I don't think there is a persuasive argument from increasing range just for Carriers, especially as it could be argued that more tactically focused ships should have the same range because that was what they are built for.
The throwaway comment at the end of 'Engineering careers' should be extended to ALL 3/3 careers depending on their 'track'.
Finally, don't get hung up on 'the evolving meta' because it is dependent on the person's playstyle, not what they are flying to a point. Just because a ship is 3/3 doesn't mean it is not competitive. I fly alot of Sci and Carrier ships, and can tear ships asunder without resorting to the copy/paste meta. I have my own builds that do just fine in all scenarios, and I have fun playing in the many different ships I have, and despite having plenty of 5/3 and 4/4 bruisers, I enjoy Sci-based fun better.
Yea that is true.
On the bright side if you were so inclined to do so you'd be getting 1500 or so with the Event Campaign I believe. So its kind of a mixed bag IMO.
The 4th part of the set is a problem. 800 lobi for a console is obscene. And the ship is no longer useful, so you are paying only for the console. They should either move it to the Phoenix pack store as already suggested, or break it out and sell it separately. 200 lobi for the console, which is the standard price for other consoles, would be reasonable. But however you get it, the 4th part of the set would make the antiproton buzz saw even stronger.
There are many other interesting antiproton options thanks to all the fancy procs available. I lean towards the Crystalline Energy Torpedo. But the Delphic and Herald weapons could give some nice offensive bonuses and the Radiant antiproton weapons could add some nice defense bonuses. There are also some other good consoles like the Polymorphic Probe Array or the Crystalline Absorption Matrix that give more antiproton weapon damage boost as well as other useful effects.
I haven't even begun to think about which traits to use. Holographic Mirage Decoys seems like a good start, since the swarmers are small and tend to attack at close range, 'swarmer' is the right name for them...
The way I look at that isn't FOMO (eg. if I don't have it, I need to get it). It's something nice for folks who've *already* bought the ship over the years, just for a higher grade of Obelisk. Eg. super fans of the ship. A set bonus like this isn't going to make or break a build, and no one should make an "obscene" purchase just for the minor nicety it represents. But if you've already gone off the deep end at Tier 5 for the love of the thing (there's not much else drawing players to a fleet-grade Obelisk) and stand to have that very expensive ship obsoleted by a much more accessible T6 version with dual specs, then here's a bit of compensation. Your super fandom still has a token to carry over.
It's more of a codified memento than a realistic hard sell.
If anyone feels tempted, despite all reason, to spend significant money to buy the Lobi Obelisk just to complete the set, seek help from whatever support structure you have to overcome addictive, self-destructive impulse buys (which regardless of what Cryptic does here is going to manifest in innumerable other ways in STO. Ex. any and potentially every other ship sold in the game, regardless of loot box or c-store.)
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For crying out loud, it is a Tier 5 ship from 2013
Low because T5 ships aren't marketable and not enough people engage with the standard c-store (preferring instead the FOMO/gambling) with real cash to make it a juggernaut of the STO economy. You're offering up very marginal sales for very marginal sales and while you can argue it would make folks happier who want the ship now, it's also coming at a sizable economic blow to the super fans who've bought the ship already. Now they're being charged again for account access, and a pittance at that...unless you want to try marketing T5 in Mudd's (a venture that is practically doomed) to offset that buyer's regret, particularly recent if someone blew a stockpile of existing lobi this week for the ship. Eg. the time for a reasonable update may have already passed.
It's just something that should have been addressed back with the original ship (just following the then fresh Oddy/Bort model, to hell with making a weird off-faction ship generally accessible [a hard rule at the time]) and now exists as legacy jank. Call it a very weird grinding/event campaign target for interested folks, functioning mostly as a very odd bobble folks can play for once they run out of other more sensible white whales to hunt. We have sensible carriers in the c-store. We have sensible solanae-themed vessels in the c-store with the Dyson ships. Keep some of the old madness around for that to manifest in (healthy) funny ways. Wanna get something really stupid to make into a dread machine? Here you go.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!