> @pottsey5g said:
> The 26th ships are more then essentially the same or pretty average. The Romulan Carrier is arguably the strongest carrier in game. Its the best Carrier to use drone ships on. Its not just a novelty of a big ship it performance is top notch. I find it way more outstanding then the overrated DPRM.
I agree there are Cstore and event ships that are better then the KDF or Fed Universe. But the Valkis is leaps and bounds beyond the KDF or Fed Universe ships. Apart from a T'Laru I cannot think of any other carriers that comes close to the Valkis for Frigate and battleship Carrier builds. The Friendship class is the next nearest but that can only really do fighter builds and needs expensive traits just to catch up to the base level of the Valkis without traits.
I am curious.
In your opinion, how does it compare to the Vo'Devwl-class Support Carrier with Qaw'Dun Birds-of-Prey pets?
If you put on Droneships its something like triple to quadruple the pet damage output if not higher. More so if you use Wingmate trait. Its base pets from memory are around the level of Qaw'Dun Birds-of-Prey. I am not at home right now with access to my notebook to double check.
Can the Drone ships also be equipped on the Thrai?
The description says "Any Dreadnought Warbird" but descriptions have been inaccurate in the past.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
> @pottsey5g said: No I am not kidding about best pets. As I said before it can take Droneships the best pets in game which are massively more powerful then Valkyries, Alliance Fighters, Type 7 shuttles, Mirror Shuttle craft, Scorpions and even Peregrines. The Valkis is going to be doing something like 300% more pet damage with Droneships then a Donnie with those pets you listed.
Objectively I can say its the best carrier ingame as for builds based around pet damage its right at the top. Given its massively high pet damage output I don't see how it can be listed as just an average carrier. Its one of the top meta carriers for full carrier builds. The Valkis is also massively cheaper to get high pet damage out of it then a Donni. Not only is the Valkis a better carrier for pet damage its better for new carrier pilots who don't have expensive traits.
As for not being in any of the top 10 lists if you happen to be talking about various streamers I find many of them are not that great Carrier pilots and don't really know how to fly full carrier builds. Many of them are great at energy and torpedo boats but but fall short when talking about carrier builds. So I don't agree with there top 10 lists for good reason. Assuming we are talking about the same streamers and same top 10 lists.
The way I see it is if you want a hybrid energy boat/pet build you go for something like a Donnie. If you want a full carrier build based around max pet damage you go for something like a Valkis. Due to that I would pick a Valkis for carrier style gameplay over a Donnie any day of the week. Why would I pick a Donnie over a Valkis when building around carrier pet damage style of gameplay?
OK, I'll answer this then leave it as it is drifting off topic.
The normal To'Duj Fighter Squadrons (with SAD and nothing else) have an average DPS of 42,500. The droneships couldn't get anywhere near that. And that is with a clean slate, no consoles. Droneships are just average, like the Valkis. A full complement of Valkyries with SAD would vastly outperform them. There are parses to show this as evidence, it's not an opinion. Check out STO Better for the results.
I have zero idea where you get 300% better from. There is nothing you can put on the Valkis that you can't put on, say, the Donnie. In fact (ignoring that the Donnie has better stats, seating, console layout, specialisation, stats and weapons config) it can vitally have two more Hanger transmission power consoles! TWO! That's massive! Also, Temporal is probably the worse spec for a carrier, better only than pilot. The seating is average, you can work with it but it excels at nothing (average) the console layout has nothing maxed (jack of all trades, master of none).
I would love hear from anyone else who holds the ship in the same (franky baffling) high regard.
The Valk can do absolutely nothing that the Donnie cannot (except carry frigates which are (forgive me) just, OK.
It is not as powerful as a Juggernaut and not as versatile as a Flight Deck Carrier (Which are OP to be honest). It is better than a Science carrier though. So I would say it is an average ship overall and an average carrier overall.
OK, I'll answer this then leave it as it is drifting off topic.
The normal To'Duj Fighter Squadrons (with SAD and nothing else) have an average DPS of 42,500. The droneships couldn't get anywhere near that. And that is with a clean slate, no consoles. Droneships are just average, like the Valkis. A full complement of Valkyries with SAD would vastly outperform them. There are parses to show this as evidence, it's not an opinion. Check out STO Better for the results.
I have zero idea where you get 300% better from. There is nothing you can put on the Valkis that you can't put on, say, the Donnie. In fact (ignoring that the Donnie has better stats, seating, console layout, specialisation, stats and weapons config) it can vitally have two more Hanger transmission power consoles! TWO! That's massive! Also, Temporal is probably the worse spec for a carrier, better only than pilot. The seating is average, you can work with it but it excels at nothing (average) the console layout has nothing maxed (jack of all trades, master of none).
I would love hear from anyone else who holds the ship in the same (franky baffling) high regard.
The Valk can do absolutely nothing that the Donnie cannot (except carry frigates which are (forgive me) just, OK.
It is not as powerful as a Juggernaut and not as versatile as a Flight Deck Carrier (Which are OP to be honest). It is better than a Science carrier though. So I would say it is an average ship overall and an average carrier overall.
Once again though, it is pretty.
Not sure who told you droneships cannot get near that, who ever said that is wrong. A single droneship with Wingmate and no SAD should be doing around 100k DPS or at the very least way more then 42k and that's a single droneship not the entire bay which should be doing over150k+DPS or at the very least over 100k. That's without SAD so 1 bay of droneships is doing more DPS then 2 bays of To'duj with SAD. Once I start adding in starships traits and consoles my Valkis combined pet damage goes up to something like 600k DPS. Temporal is not the worse spec its one of the top specs for the procs although not the best.
All this is provable with parses and evidence which as you say is not opinion. So I don't understand what you mean by saying droneships are average or beaten by a Donnie. I have never manged to get a Donnie anywhere near the 600k ish pet DPS I can get out of Valkis on my full carrier pet build. In short I hold the Valkis in high regard as 600k ish Pet DPS is the best out of my many, many carrier builds.
The 300% is because you where talking about different pets before not To'duj. 300% against the pets listed in your other post, not 300% better then To'duj.
If you prefer the Donnie that's fine and I can see how its better for hybrid energy boats, but I don't see based on the evidence how anyone can call Droneships just ok and the Valkis with Droneships just average.
We are on topic and talking about performance and builds which might factor into people buying the carrier related to this thread so I am sure people wont mind if we continue this, assuming you want to. I love carriers and am happy to keep talking about them if you like.
If you don't want to continue that's fine, we don't have to agree. My stance is the Valkis is not just average and neither are droneships. Correctly setup its one of the meta carriers doing extremely high levels of Pet dps without requiring 500millon on SAD or what ever that trait is going for these days. Making the Valkis a top end carrier and a amazing carrier for pilots who don't have SAD. Fit droneshops on it and the Wingmate trait and you are good to go as the base level. Which is why I recommend buying this pack. (Pack does not unlock droneships only the carrier)
"There is nothing you can put on the Valkis that you can't put on, say, the Donnie."
Yes there is, the Valkis boosts the weapon, shield and engine power of its pets which the Donnie cannot do. On top of that the Valkis can fit Droneships which are stronger pets then the best pet you can fit in the Donnie.
* I used ish above as I am on my laptop without access to my raw data on my main PC.
Can the Drone ships also be equipped on the Thrai?
The description says "Any Dreadnought Warbird" but descriptions have been inaccurate in the past.
It should work but I cannot remember testing that one out. If you like I can do a test and find out though its likely going to be a week before I have some free time for a proper STO session.
"Yes there is, the Valkis boosts the weapon, shield and engine power of its pets"
How? What inbuilt trait or exclusive console is that?
I think that you are arguing that you can power up your pets more with the Valk. That may be true (still not sure how). But pets represent a fraction of your overall damage. The analogy would be that I have a mint .44 magnum and a functioning peashooter but you have a malfunctioning .44 with an excellent peashooter.
In otherwords, you like excellent peashooters over mint .44's which is, as I said from the beginning, Space Barbie! And that is absolutely fine!
"Yes there is, the Valkis boosts the weapon, shield and engine power of its pets"
How? What inbuilt trait or exclusive console is that?
I think that you are arguing that you can power up your pets more with the Valk. That may be true (still not sure how). But pets represent a fraction of your overall damage. The analogy would be that I have a mint .44 magnum and a functioning peashooter but you have a malfunctioning .44 with an excellent peashooter.
In otherwords, you like excellent peashooters over mint .44's which is, as I said from the beginning, Space Barbie! And that is absolutely fine!
Some ships have inbuilt passive powers in the case of all 3 of these dreadnoughts they have Power Energy Distribution to pets and allies. Another good one is the Hur'q Dreadnought with its passive shields immune to damage trigger.
Not sure that analogy fully works. Pets on a full carrier build are making up around 80% of total ship damage output a much higher fraction of total ship damage then main weapons. So I am arguing that on full carrier builds based around pet damage Frigate carrier builds like droneships do massively more pet DPS output then fighters and when built correctly are not Peashooters.
It sounds like you are talking about a Space Barbie Donni carrier build while I am talking about a Valkis meta Carrier build.
Like I said before I don't know where you are getting your information from, I can only guess its one of the streamers who isn't experienced and isn't given out the best advice. Who ever told you Droneships are average and the Valkis is average or didn't list them in the top 10 carriers clearly isn't an experienced Carrier pilot and/or doesn't know how to build high end full carrier builds. I am happy to back up everything I am saying with data and evidence.
If you want some low end pet damage Space Barbie build that's fine. A lot of people like that. For me its about full Carrier builds doing high pet damage output over main weapons. For that its a Valkis over a Donni. Frigates over Fighters.
> @pottsey5g said: > Not sure who > @pottsey5g said: > Some ships have inbuilt passive powers in the case of all 3 of these dreadnoughts they have Power Energy Distribution to pets and allies. Another good one is the Hur'q Dreadnought with its passive shields immune to damage trigger. > > Not sure that analogy fully works. Pets on a full carrier build are making up around 80% of total ship damage output a much higher fraction of total ship damage then main weapons. So I am arguing that on full carrier builds based around pet damage Frigate carrier builds like droneships do massively more pet DPS output then fighters and when built correctly are not Peashooters. > > It sounds like you are talking about a Space Barbie Donni carrier build while I am talking about a Valkis meta Carrier build. > > Like I said before I don't know where you are getting your information from, I can only guess its one of the streamers who isn't experienced and isn't given out the best advice. Who ever told you Droneships are average and the Valkis is average or didn't list them in the top 10 carriers clearly isn't an experienced Carrier pilot and/or doesn't know how to build high end full carrier builds. I am happy to back up everything I am saying with data and evidence. > > If you want some low end pet damage Space Barbie build that's fine. A lot of people like that. For me its about full Carrier builds doing high pet damage output over main weapons. For that its a Valkis over a Donni. Frigates over Fighters.
If 80% of your damage is coming from your pets then you must be flying a Ford Fiesta. And are you seriously saying that a passive ability is better than two full elite hanger pet consoles? I'm guessing you play on normal?
Your ship is first, your pets are support. You are doing things the other way around, which is cool. I'd love to have you in a TFO as support. Providing you survive long enough...
> @pottsey5g said:
> Not sure who
> @pottsey5g said:
> Some ships have inbuilt passive powers in the case of all 3 of these dreadnoughts they have Power Energy Distribution to pets and allies. Another good one is the Hur'q Dreadnought with its passive shields immune to damage trigger.
>
> Not sure that analogy fully works. Pets on a full carrier build are making up around 80% of total ship damage output a much higher fraction of total ship damage then main weapons. So I am arguing that on full carrier builds based around pet damage Frigate carrier builds like droneships do massively more pet DPS output then fighters and when built correctly are not Peashooters.
>
> It sounds like you are talking about a Space Barbie Donni carrier build while I am talking about a Valkis meta Carrier build.
>
> Like I said before I don't know where you are getting your information from, I can only guess its one of the streamers who isn't experienced and isn't given out the best advice. Who ever told you Droneships are average and the Valkis is average or didn't list them in the top 10 carriers clearly isn't an experienced Carrier pilot and/or doesn't know how to build high end full carrier builds. I am happy to back up everything I am saying with data and evidence.
>
> If you want some low end pet damage Space Barbie build that's fine. A lot of people like that. For me its about full Carrier builds doing high pet damage output over main weapons. For that its a Valkis over a Donni. Frigates over Fighters.
If 80% of your damage is coming from your pets then you must be flying a Ford Fiesta. And are you seriously saying that a passive ability is better than two full elite hanger pet consoles? I'm guessing you play on normal?
Your ship is first, your pets are support. You are doing things the other way around, which is cool. I'd love to have you in a TFO as support. Providing you survive long enough...
That's not how full carrier builds work. A full carrier build is pets first and I run Elite as default with enough pet damage to solo Elite with ease just from the pets.
I am saying Droneships with the passive ability is extremely high damage way better from the sounds of it then your low pet DPS Donni carrier. You mentioned 42k before so from the sounds of it my 1 single frigate without SAD not even 1 bay is doing more damage then your entire two bays with SAD. Just how much or should that be how little pet damage are you doing in your Donni?
So yes I am saying in terms of pet damage the Valkis with Droneships and Wingmate is seriously far, far better then a Donni with 2 extra elite hanger consoles. A 50k Frigate with Wingmate is now doing 100k and that's before stacking on 30% pet crit chance and everything else. 200% bonus damage, then add on hangar consoles, then boost crit chance to spikes of 50%+ and you don't have a peashooter. You have pets that do high levels of damage.
Just because you appear to choose to play Space Barbie and use Peashooter carrier builds in terms of pet damage, it doesn't mean that is all we as players are limited to. While there is nothing wrong with Space Barbie or peashooter pet builds or theme builds that is not how full carrier builds function. A well designed carrier built around pet damage is more like a Sports Car not a Ford Fiesta.
It sounds like you have never played a high pet damage full carrier build and are incorrectly acting like Carriers pets can only do peashooter pet damage. What level of DPS is acceptable for you to not be a peashooter? Why do main weapons have to do more damage then pets? Its a carrier, to me that's about running a fleet and having the fleet do the work not the main ship weapons. I know some people like to do what I call hybrid builds with main weapons but I personally don't class that as a full carrier build.
> @pottsey5g said: > That's not how full carrier builds work. A full carrier build is pets first and I run Elite as default with enough pet damage to solo Elite with ease just from the pets. > > I am saying Droneships with the passive ability is extremely high damage way better from the sounds of it then your low pet DPS Donni carrier. You mentioned 42k before so from the sounds of it my 1 single frigate without SAD not even 1 bay is doing more damage then your entire two bays with SAD. Just how much or should that be how little pet damage are you doing in your Donni? > > So yes I am saying in terms of pet damage the Valkis with Droneships and Wingmate is seriously far, far better then a Donni with 2 extra elite hanger consoles. A 50k Frigate with Wingmate is now doing 100k and that's before stacking on 30% pet crit chance and everything else. 200% bonus damage, then add on hangar consoles, then boost crit chance to spikes of 50%+ and you don't have a peashooter. You have pets that do high levels of damage. > > Just because you appear to choose to play Space Barbie and use Peashooter carrier builds in terms of pet damage, it doesn't mean that is all we as players are limited to. While there is nothing wrong with Space Barbie or peashooter pet builds or theme builds that is not how full carrier builds function. A well designed carrier built around pet damage is more like a Sports Car not a Ford Fiesta. > > It sounds like you have never played a high pet damage full carrier build and are incorrectly acting like Carriers pets can only do peashooter pet damage. What level of DPS is acceptable for you to not be a peashooter? Why do main weapons have to do more damage then pets? Its a carrier, to me that's about running a fleet and having the fleet do the work not the main ship weapons. I know some people like to do what I call hybrid builds with main weapons but I personally don't class that as a full carrier build.
Love to see a screenshot of your parsed DPS. (You won't of course). And thank you for referring to my Donnie as Space Barbie (she is actually). Promo donnie with mirror donnie hull and legendary donnie saucer, cost me a Boody fortune, but worth every EC!
> @pottsey5g said:
> That's not how full carrier builds work. A full carrier build is pets first and I run Elite as default with enough pet damage to solo Elite with ease just from the pets.
>
> I am saying Droneships with the passive ability is extremely high damage way better from the sounds of it then your low pet DPS Donni carrier. You mentioned 42k before so from the sounds of it my 1 single frigate without SAD not even 1 bay is doing more damage then your entire two bays with SAD. Just how much or should that be how little pet damage are you doing in your Donni?
>
> So yes I am saying in terms of pet damage the Valkis with Droneships and Wingmate is seriously far, far better then a Donni with 2 extra elite hanger consoles. A 50k Frigate with Wingmate is now doing 100k and that's before stacking on 30% pet crit chance and everything else. 200% bonus damage, then add on hangar consoles, then boost crit chance to spikes of 50%+ and you don't have a peashooter. You have pets that do high levels of damage.
>
> Just because you appear to choose to play Space Barbie and use Peashooter carrier builds in terms of pet damage, it doesn't mean that is all we as players are limited to. While there is nothing wrong with Space Barbie or peashooter pet builds or theme builds that is not how full carrier builds function. A well designed carrier built around pet damage is more like a Sports Car not a Ford Fiesta.
>
> It sounds like you have never played a high pet damage full carrier build and are incorrectly acting like Carriers pets can only do peashooter pet damage. What level of DPS is acceptable for you to not be a peashooter? Why do main weapons have to do more damage then pets? Its a carrier, to me that's about running a fleet and having the fleet do the work not the main ship weapons. I know some people like to do what I call hybrid builds with main weapons but I personally don't class that as a full carrier build.
Love to see a screenshot of your parsed DPS. (You won't of course). And thank you for referring to my Donnie as Space Barbie (she is actually). Promo donnie with mirror donnie hull and legendary donnie saucer, cost me a Boody fortune, but worth every EC!
Why wouldn't I post evidence I already offered to post? Granted I am still on my laptop without access to my main PC which limits what I can post for now. To prove I am telling the truth here is my old parse data from years back that I have posted before without the new hangar bay consoles and without the pet crit chance consoles.
that is one bay only, without the new consoles doing 140k. Add in the 2nd bay, add in the new crit consoles and new hangar consoles and its clear I am telling the truth.
If this isn't enough evidence I am happy to post more when I can access my main PC again on Sunday.
On top of the 2 bays of droneships I also tend to do an additional 200k ish from summons. So pet Summons + Droneships mean pets are doing 80%+ of my overall damage.
In short 140k from bay 1, 100k ish from bay 2, 200k from summons. 450k ish pet DPS without new consoles and without SAD. My current build has an additional 50% pet crit chance and a full set of the new hangar consoles. Screenshots for all that are on my main PC which I should be up and running again this Sunday.
Firstly, thanks for that. I trust your numbers in the parse so let's work with them and my To'duj (also with no bonuses other than SAD).
Aren't you missing the elephant in the room? You can run 4 droneships (90,000 dps x4 = 360,000 DPS). I can run 12 To'duj (42,500 x12 = 510,000 DPS).
I am not following your numbers. 42.5k as far as I am aware is not the average per To'Duj individual fighter that's the average per entire fighter squadron. So 6 fighters or 1 bay = 42.5k on average so two bays made up of 12 fighters is 85k dps total which is less DPS then 1 single droneship or half a bay of droneships. Plus you are using SAD which is only something like a 500million EC trait while the droneships without SAD are doing way more then those those To'Duj with SAD. Making a Valkis with droneships far better for carrier pilots without access to the SAD trait.
To borrow your phrase I think you are missing the elephant in the room that it appears as though 1 droneship without SAD is doing more DPS then your 12 To'duj Fighters and I can take 4 droneships.
We are talking baseline right? Without consoles to boost damage or crit chance. I don't see how its possible to get 510k from To'duj like that. When you do your parse in your donni with To'Duj without consoles what DPS do you get? Is it really 510k parse without consoles, I would like to see the parse please and how you did it. If you get 510k without the consoles what do you get with the consoles? My droneship data above is near baseline without consoles and without starship traits.
I am not at home right now but it looks like the parcel just arrived that I have been waiting for to get my main PC back up and running. Tomorrow I am busy, so all being well I will post a full modern carrier parse with all consoles on a Valkis this Sunday. Pretty sure I can show a total of 500k to 600k ish pet DPS on the Valkis. What is your real life pet DPS on your donni on runs?
No idea, I play on console. My DPS stats come from STO better etc.
What about the console on the Ahwahnee? Up to 125% haste for 35 seconds? That will affect 12 Fighters but only 4 frigates. Effectively over doubling their current massive damage?
I suppose at the end of the day, why does nobody else rate this shp? Why isn't it here?
No idea, I play on console. My DPS stats come from STO better etc.
What about the console on the Ahwahnee? Up to 125% haste for 35 seconds? That will affect 12 Fighters but only 4 frigates. Effectively over doubling their current massive damage?
I suppose at the end of the day, why does nobody else rate this shp? Why isn't it here?
Why does it not get at least an honorable mention if it is just a fraction as good as you claim it to be? That's what I don't understand.
My guess would be possibly because it is an older 4/4 design but probably more because the person who made the video seems to dislike singularity core powered ships judging by his comments on the Sillik where he praised it for having the Romulan battle cloak coupled with a standard warp core instead of a singularity core. Also, it only has four engineering console slots and he said that was a negative feature on one of the other ships.
It is also quite possible that he never flew a Valkis and does not know much about it. The ship seems to be something of a sleeper from what I have heard, not too impressive looking systems-wise on paper but can perform surprisingly well. Also, I see them around fairly often, so they seem to be reasonably popular, or at least on PC anyway.
As for why people don't rate it, you have to look way back for that for the most part, most of the reviews of it are from six years ago. There is a recent one though, it was rated as one of the best Romulan ships by "Augmented Dictator Games" in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAgPv_-Z9Lw
The Valkis part starts at around 12:49.
No idea, I play on console. My DPS stats come from STO better etc.
What about the console on the Ahwahnee? Up to 125% haste for 35 seconds? That will affect 12 Fighters but only 4 frigates. Effectively over doubling their current massive damage?
I suppose at the end of the day, why does nobody else rate this shp? Why isn't it here?
Why does it not get at least an honorable mention if it is just a fraction as good as you claim it to be? That's what I don't understand.
As far as I can see Augmented is not an experienced Carrier pilot. From what I have seen they do not do high end full carrier builds based around high pet damage. The past few videos of his I watched had poorly designed carriers in terms of maxing out pet damage and not one single full carrier build at least by how I define full carrier builds. They only did hybrid carriers with limit pet damage. Very often he did low pet damage often 150k - 200k ish.
Augmented it fantastic when it comes to Energy boats, Torpedo boats or Science builds but I don’t think he has mastered carriers like he has the other builds hence why I don’t agree with his top 10 list.
Take a look at this Valkis screenshot https://ibb.co/9Z587p6 Even though my piloting was shockingly poor I got a total of 563k pet damage. This proves what I have been saying is correct. When it comes to Science or Energy boat builds takes Augmented advice over mine any day of the week. When it comes to full Carrier builds I am showing you Droneships are not weak, not peashooters and the Valkis is one of the meta carriers.
As for “My DPS stats come from STO better etc.” I think you might be misreading the spreadsheet and you might want to check my name against there spreadsheet database. A decent amount of that STO better hangar pet data is based off my pet testing. STO Better pet ranking doesn’t factor in Wingmate which doubles Frigate damage which is massively better then doubling fighter damage. Which brings me onto
“What about the console on the Ahwahnee? Up to 125% haste for 35 seconds? That will affect 12 Fighters but only 4 frigates. Effectively over doubling their current massive damage?”
Which is better 125% haste applied to 12 fighters doing 84k or 125% haste applied to 4 frigates doing 300k?
Also which is better Wingmate 200% to 1 fighter doubling its 5k damage to 10k. Or 200% to 1 frigate doubling its 50k damage to 100k?
For myself I prefer the Frigate build over fighter build.
“I suppose at the end of the day, why does nobody else rate this shp? Why isn't it here?”
My guess is they are not top end Carrier pilots and don’t know any better when it comes to full carrier pet builds. As I said before many of the steamers while great to watch are not always the best when it comes to Carriers. I have yet to see a high end pet damage full carrier build from any steamer.
Pretty much all of them take energy or torpedo boats then call it a carrier build even though they are getting more damage from main weapons then pets as they are not maxing out pet damage. That to me is a hybrid build not a full carrier build. See my Valkis screenshot to prove pets can do high damage when fully focused on pets instead of main weapons.
Since there are very few Full Carrier (not Hybrid) up-to-date tutorials, which trait/ pet/console combination would you recommend?
Preferably without Lobi ships/consoles.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Since there are very few Full Carrier (not Hybrid) up-to-date tutorials, which trait/ pet/console combination would you recommend?
Preferably without Lobi ships/consoles.
My guideline rules are ideally 5 to 8 Eng pet consoles (Advanced Engineering - Hangar Craft Power) with many people saying 6 is the sweat spot but really as many as you can fit along with Swarmer Matrix.
For a budget full carrier that has good performance: Friends in Unusual places + Fleet Support + Superior Command Frequency + Frequency Transponder, Independent Wingmate, Feel the Weight of our Presence, Into the Breach.
If you have enough activated carrier consoles like High-Energy Network. Then Unconventional Systems to boost the console recharge rate.
Friends in Unusual places + Fleet Support + Superior Command Frequency + Frequency Transponder this combo with a little bit of Captain Recharge Cooldown like Intelligence Agent Attache will give you an extra 4 or 5 battleships and 3 extra Frigates on top of the hangar bays.
Scramble Fighters and Cooperation is the Domianant Strategy are two of the strongest Starship traits when built around them but are not cheap.
I'll put this besides my current build on a tellerite FDC to see what can be improved upon.
P.s. I think that the nanite dispenser event reward is also quite useful on a carrier build.
Post edited by questerius on
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
> @pottsey5g said: > My guideline rules are ideally 5 to 8 Eng pet consoles (Advanced Engineering - Hangar Craft Power) with many people saying 6 is the sweat spot but really as many as you can fit along with Swarmer Matrix. > > For a budget full carrier that has good performance: Friends in Unusual places + Fleet Support + Superior Command Frequency + Frequency Transponder, Independent Wingmate, Feel the Weight of our Presence, Into the Breach. > > If you have enough activated carrier consoles like High-Energy Network. Then Unconventional Systems to boost the console recharge rate. > > Friends in Unusual places + Fleet Support + Superior Command Frequency + Frequency Transponder this combo with a little bit of Captain Recharge Cooldown like Intelligence Agent Attache will give you an extra 4 or 5 battleships and 3 extra Frigates on top of the hangar bays. > > Scramble Fighters and Cooperation is the Domianant Strategy are two of the strongest Starship traits when built around them but are not cheap.
I've been looking further at drone ships, and they are indeed much better than I thought. I'm still doing much more damage on my legendary Scimitar with one hanger bay than my Valk with two though. The Valk/drone build is a hell of a lot of fun though.
Rpg wise, I like the idea of pilots over Romulans pressing buttons. That's not my idea of a carrier. I'm still doing much more overall damage with my Donnie/Valkyrie build but I have to admit, if you want the most pet damage, you are right.
Nice looking ship, excellent drones. But still average.
> @pottsey5g said:
> My guideline rules are ideally 5 to 8 Eng pet consoles (Advanced Engineering - Hangar Craft Power) with many people saying 6 is the sweat spot but really as many as you can fit along with Swarmer Matrix.
>
> For a budget full carrier that has good performance: Friends in Unusual places + Fleet Support + Superior Command Frequency + Frequency Transponder, Independent Wingmate, Feel the Weight of our Presence, Into the Breach.
>
> If you have enough activated carrier consoles like High-Energy Network. Then Unconventional Systems to boost the console recharge rate.
>
> Friends in Unusual places + Fleet Support + Superior Command Frequency + Frequency Transponder this combo with a little bit of Captain Recharge Cooldown like Intelligence Agent Attache will give you an extra 4 or 5 battleships and 3 extra Frigates on top of the hangar bays.
>
> Scramble Fighters and Cooperation is the Domianant Strategy are two of the strongest Starship traits when built around them but are not cheap.
I've been looking further at drone ships, and they are indeed much better than I thought. I'm still doing much more damage on my legendary Scimitar with one hanger bay than my Valk with two though. The Valk/drone build is a hell of a lot of fun though.
Rpg wise, I like the idea of pilots over Romulans pressing buttons. That's not my idea of a carrier. I'm still doing much more overall damage with my Donnie/Valkyrie build but I have to admit, if you want the most pet damage, you are right.
Nice looking ship, excellent drones. But still average.
Fluff-wise, Romulan droneships are not piloted like a realworld drone, according to the show they came from (ENT) they are piloted by telepaths astral projecting into the drones, sort of like a photonic pilot but without an actual physical manifestation of holomatter or whatever, just a sort of virtual presence in the system like Picard did with the Enterprise computers in one episode. In ENT they had to use a kidnapped Einar for a pilot (possibly because they have that psionic awareness instead of physical sight), apparently by the 25th century they are able to use less powerful telepaths like Romulans to pilot them.
Comments
The description says "Any Dreadnought Warbird" but descriptions have been inaccurate in the past.
All this is provable with parses and evidence which as you say is not opinion. So I don't understand what you mean by saying droneships are average or beaten by a Donnie. I have never manged to get a Donnie anywhere near the 600k ish pet DPS I can get out of Valkis on my full carrier pet build. In short I hold the Valkis in high regard as 600k ish Pet DPS is the best out of my many, many carrier builds.
The 300% is because you where talking about different pets before not To'duj. 300% against the pets listed in your other post, not 300% better then To'duj.
If you prefer the Donnie that's fine and I can see how its better for hybrid energy boats, but I don't see based on the evidence how anyone can call Droneships just ok and the Valkis with Droneships just average.
We are on topic and talking about performance and builds which might factor into people buying the carrier related to this thread so I am sure people wont mind if we continue this, assuming you want to. I love carriers and am happy to keep talking about them if you like.
If you don't want to continue that's fine, we don't have to agree. My stance is the Valkis is not just average and neither are droneships. Correctly setup its one of the meta carriers doing extremely high levels of Pet dps without requiring 500millon on SAD or what ever that trait is going for these days. Making the Valkis a top end carrier and a amazing carrier for pilots who don't have SAD. Fit droneshops on it and the Wingmate trait and you are good to go as the base level. Which is why I recommend buying this pack. (Pack does not unlock droneships only the carrier)
"There is nothing you can put on the Valkis that you can't put on, say, the Donnie."
Yes there is, the Valkis boosts the weapon, shield and engine power of its pets which the Donnie cannot do. On top of that the Valkis can fit Droneships which are stronger pets then the best pet you can fit in the Donnie.
* I used ish above as I am on my laptop without access to my raw data on my main PC.
How? What inbuilt trait or exclusive console is that?
I think that you are arguing that you can power up your pets more with the Valk. That may be true (still not sure how). But pets represent a fraction of your overall damage. The analogy would be that I have a mint .44 magnum and a functioning peashooter but you have a malfunctioning .44 with an excellent peashooter.
In otherwords, you like excellent peashooters over mint .44's which is, as I said from the beginning, Space Barbie! And that is absolutely fine!
Not sure that analogy fully works. Pets on a full carrier build are making up around 80% of total ship damage output a much higher fraction of total ship damage then main weapons. So I am arguing that on full carrier builds based around pet damage Frigate carrier builds like droneships do massively more pet DPS output then fighters and when built correctly are not Peashooters.
It sounds like you are talking about a Space Barbie Donni carrier build while I am talking about a Valkis meta Carrier build.
Like I said before I don't know where you are getting your information from, I can only guess its one of the streamers who isn't experienced and isn't given out the best advice. Who ever told you Droneships are average and the Valkis is average or didn't list them in the top 10 carriers clearly isn't an experienced Carrier pilot and/or doesn't know how to build high end full carrier builds. I am happy to back up everything I am saying with data and evidence.
If you want some low end pet damage Space Barbie build that's fine. A lot of people like that. For me its about full Carrier builds doing high pet damage output over main weapons. For that its a Valkis over a Donni. Frigates over Fighters.
> Not sure who
> @pottsey5g said:
> Some ships have inbuilt passive powers in the case of all 3 of these dreadnoughts they have Power Energy Distribution to pets and allies. Another good one is the Hur'q Dreadnought with its passive shields immune to damage trigger.
>
> Not sure that analogy fully works. Pets on a full carrier build are making up around 80% of total ship damage output a much higher fraction of total ship damage then main weapons. So I am arguing that on full carrier builds based around pet damage Frigate carrier builds like droneships do massively more pet DPS output then fighters and when built correctly are not Peashooters.
>
> It sounds like you are talking about a Space Barbie Donni carrier build while I am talking about a Valkis meta Carrier build.
>
> Like I said before I don't know where you are getting your information from, I can only guess its one of the streamers who isn't experienced and isn't given out the best advice. Who ever told you Droneships are average and the Valkis is average or didn't list them in the top 10 carriers clearly isn't an experienced Carrier pilot and/or doesn't know how to build high end full carrier builds. I am happy to back up everything I am saying with data and evidence.
>
> If you want some low end pet damage Space Barbie build that's fine. A lot of people like that. For me its about full Carrier builds doing high pet damage output over main weapons. For that its a Valkis over a Donni. Frigates over Fighters.
If 80% of your damage is coming from your pets then you must be flying a Ford Fiesta. And are you seriously saying that a passive ability is better than two full elite hanger pet consoles? I'm guessing you play on normal?
Your ship is first, your pets are support. You are doing things the other way around, which is cool. I'd love to have you in a TFO as support. Providing you survive long enough...
I am saying Droneships with the passive ability is extremely high damage way better from the sounds of it then your low pet DPS Donni carrier. You mentioned 42k before so from the sounds of it my 1 single frigate without SAD not even 1 bay is doing more damage then your entire two bays with SAD. Just how much or should that be how little pet damage are you doing in your Donni?
So yes I am saying in terms of pet damage the Valkis with Droneships and Wingmate is seriously far, far better then a Donni with 2 extra elite hanger consoles. A 50k Frigate with Wingmate is now doing 100k and that's before stacking on 30% pet crit chance and everything else. 200% bonus damage, then add on hangar consoles, then boost crit chance to spikes of 50%+ and you don't have a peashooter. You have pets that do high levels of damage.
Just because you appear to choose to play Space Barbie and use Peashooter carrier builds in terms of pet damage, it doesn't mean that is all we as players are limited to. While there is nothing wrong with Space Barbie or peashooter pet builds or theme builds that is not how full carrier builds function. A well designed carrier built around pet damage is more like a Sports Car not a Ford Fiesta.
It sounds like you have never played a high pet damage full carrier build and are incorrectly acting like Carriers pets can only do peashooter pet damage. What level of DPS is acceptable for you to not be a peashooter? Why do main weapons have to do more damage then pets? Its a carrier, to me that's about running a fleet and having the fleet do the work not the main ship weapons. I know some people like to do what I call hybrid builds with main weapons but I personally don't class that as a full carrier build.
> That's not how full carrier builds work. A full carrier build is pets first and I run Elite as default with enough pet damage to solo Elite with ease just from the pets.
>
> I am saying Droneships with the passive ability is extremely high damage way better from the sounds of it then your low pet DPS Donni carrier. You mentioned 42k before so from the sounds of it my 1 single frigate without SAD not even 1 bay is doing more damage then your entire two bays with SAD. Just how much or should that be how little pet damage are you doing in your Donni?
>
> So yes I am saying in terms of pet damage the Valkis with Droneships and Wingmate is seriously far, far better then a Donni with 2 extra elite hanger consoles. A 50k Frigate with Wingmate is now doing 100k and that's before stacking on 30% pet crit chance and everything else. 200% bonus damage, then add on hangar consoles, then boost crit chance to spikes of 50%+ and you don't have a peashooter. You have pets that do high levels of damage.
>
> Just because you appear to choose to play Space Barbie and use Peashooter carrier builds in terms of pet damage, it doesn't mean that is all we as players are limited to. While there is nothing wrong with Space Barbie or peashooter pet builds or theme builds that is not how full carrier builds function. A well designed carrier built around pet damage is more like a Sports Car not a Ford Fiesta.
>
> It sounds like you have never played a high pet damage full carrier build and are incorrectly acting like Carriers pets can only do peashooter pet damage. What level of DPS is acceptable for you to not be a peashooter? Why do main weapons have to do more damage then pets? Its a carrier, to me that's about running a fleet and having the fleet do the work not the main ship weapons. I know some people like to do what I call hybrid builds with main weapons but I personally don't class that as a full carrier build.
Love to see a screenshot of your parsed DPS. (You won't of course). And thank you for referring to my Donnie as Space Barbie (she is actually). Promo donnie with mirror donnie hull and legendary donnie saucer, cost me a Boody fortune, but worth every EC!
If this isn't enough evidence I am happy to post more when I can access my main PC again on Sunday.
On top of the 2 bays of droneships I also tend to do an additional 200k ish from summons. So pet Summons + Droneships mean pets are doing 80%+ of my overall damage.
https://imgbb.com/PC2gxfT again old phase data before the new hangar pet consoles.
In short 140k from bay 1, 100k ish from bay 2, 200k from summons. 450k ish pet DPS without new consoles and without SAD. My current build has an additional 50% pet crit chance and a full set of the new hangar consoles. Screenshots for all that are on my main PC which I should be up and running again this Sunday.
Aren't you missing the elephant in the room? You can run 4 droneships (90,000 dps x4 = 360,000 DPS). I can run 12 To'duj (42,500 x12 = 510,000 DPS).
To borrow your phrase I think you are missing the elephant in the room that it appears as though 1 droneship without SAD is doing more DPS then your 12 To'duj Fighters and I can take 4 droneships.
We are talking baseline right? Without consoles to boost damage or crit chance. I don't see how its possible to get 510k from To'duj like that. When you do your parse in your donni with To'Duj without consoles what DPS do you get? Is it really 510k parse without consoles, I would like to see the parse please and how you did it. If you get 510k without the consoles what do you get with the consoles? My droneship data above is near baseline without consoles and without starship traits.
I am not at home right now but it looks like the parcel just arrived that I have been waiting for to get my main PC back up and running. Tomorrow I am busy, so all being well I will post a full modern carrier parse with all consoles on a Valkis this Sunday. Pretty sure I can show a total of 500k to 600k ish pet DPS on the Valkis. What is your real life pet DPS on your donni on runs?
What about the console on the Ahwahnee? Up to 125% haste for 35 seconds? That will affect 12 Fighters but only 4 frigates. Effectively over doubling their current massive damage?
I suppose at the end of the day, why does nobody else rate this shp? Why isn't it here?
Why does it not get at least an honorable mention if it is just a fraction as good as you claim it to be? That's what I don't understand.
My guess would be possibly because it is an older 4/4 design but probably more because the person who made the video seems to dislike singularity core powered ships judging by his comments on the Sillik where he praised it for having the Romulan battle cloak coupled with a standard warp core instead of a singularity core. Also, it only has four engineering console slots and he said that was a negative feature on one of the other ships.
It is also quite possible that he never flew a Valkis and does not know much about it. The ship seems to be something of a sleeper from what I have heard, not too impressive looking systems-wise on paper but can perform surprisingly well. Also, I see them around fairly often, so they seem to be reasonably popular, or at least on PC anyway.
As for why people don't rate it, you have to look way back for that for the most part, most of the reviews of it are from six years ago. There is a recent one though, it was rated as one of the best Romulan ships by "Augmented Dictator Games" in this video:
The Valkis part starts at around 12:49.
Augmented it fantastic when it comes to Energy boats, Torpedo boats or Science builds but I don’t think he has mastered carriers like he has the other builds hence why I don’t agree with his top 10 list.
Take a look at this Valkis screenshot https://ibb.co/9Z587p6 Even though my piloting was shockingly poor I got a total of 563k pet damage. This proves what I have been saying is correct. When it comes to Science or Energy boat builds takes Augmented advice over mine any day of the week. When it comes to full Carrier builds I am showing you Droneships are not weak, not peashooters and the Valkis is one of the meta carriers.
As for “My DPS stats come from STO better etc.” I think you might be misreading the spreadsheet and you might want to check my name against there spreadsheet database. A decent amount of that STO better hangar pet data is based off my pet testing. STO Better pet ranking doesn’t factor in Wingmate which doubles Frigate damage which is massively better then doubling fighter damage. Which brings me onto
Which is better 125% haste applied to 12 fighters doing 84k or 125% haste applied to 4 frigates doing 300k?
Also which is better Wingmate 200% to 1 fighter doubling its 5k damage to 10k. Or 200% to 1 frigate doubling its 50k damage to 100k?
For myself I prefer the Frigate build over fighter build.
My guess is they are not top end Carrier pilots and don’t know any better when it comes to full carrier pet builds. As I said before many of the steamers while great to watch are not always the best when it comes to Carriers. I have yet to see a high end pet damage full carrier build from any steamer.
Pretty much all of them take energy or torpedo boats then call it a carrier build even though they are getting more damage from main weapons then pets as they are not maxing out pet damage. That to me is a hybrid build not a full carrier build. See my Valkis screenshot to prove pets can do high damage when fully focused on pets instead of main weapons.
Preferably without Lobi ships/consoles.
For a budget full carrier that has good performance: Friends in Unusual places + Fleet Support + Superior Command Frequency + Frequency Transponder, Independent Wingmate, Feel the Weight of our Presence, Into the Breach.
If you have enough activated carrier consoles like High-Energy Network. Then Unconventional Systems to boost the console recharge rate.
Friends in Unusual places + Fleet Support + Superior Command Frequency + Frequency Transponder this combo with a little bit of Captain Recharge Cooldown like Intelligence Agent Attache will give you an extra 4 or 5 battleships and 3 extra Frigates on top of the hangar bays.
Scramble Fighters and Cooperation is the Domianant Strategy are two of the strongest Starship traits when built around them but are not cheap.
P.s. I think that the nanite dispenser event reward is also quite useful on a carrier build.
> My guideline rules are ideally 5 to 8 Eng pet consoles (Advanced Engineering - Hangar Craft Power) with many people saying 6 is the sweat spot but really as many as you can fit along with Swarmer Matrix.
>
> For a budget full carrier that has good performance: Friends in Unusual places + Fleet Support + Superior Command Frequency + Frequency Transponder, Independent Wingmate, Feel the Weight of our Presence, Into the Breach.
>
> If you have enough activated carrier consoles like High-Energy Network. Then Unconventional Systems to boost the console recharge rate.
>
> Friends in Unusual places + Fleet Support + Superior Command Frequency + Frequency Transponder this combo with a little bit of Captain Recharge Cooldown like Intelligence Agent Attache will give you an extra 4 or 5 battleships and 3 extra Frigates on top of the hangar bays.
>
> Scramble Fighters and Cooperation is the Domianant Strategy are two of the strongest Starship traits when built around them but are not cheap.
I've been looking further at drone ships, and they are indeed much better than I thought. I'm still doing much more damage on my legendary Scimitar with one hanger bay than my Valk with two though. The Valk/drone build is a hell of a lot of fun though.
Rpg wise, I like the idea of pilots over Romulans pressing buttons. That's not my idea of a carrier. I'm still doing much more overall damage with my Donnie/Valkyrie build but I have to admit, if you want the most pet damage, you are right.
Nice looking ship, excellent drones. But still average.
Fluff-wise, Romulan droneships are not piloted like a realworld drone, according to the show they came from (ENT) they are piloted by telepaths astral projecting into the drones, sort of like a photonic pilot but without an actual physical manifestation of holomatter or whatever, just a sort of virtual presence in the system like Picard did with the Enterprise computers in one episode. In ENT they had to use a kidnapped Einar for a pilot (possibly because they have that psionic awareness instead of physical sight), apparently by the 25th century they are able to use less powerful telepaths like Romulans to pilot them.