rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,418Community Moderator
Some people have, in the past, requested a full Season of just Bug Fixes. However they fail to understand that there are people who are NOT Coders working for Cryptic as well. Envionmental Artists, Character Artists, Ship Artists, ex cetera. Are they supposed to just sit on their hands while the Bug Hunters do everything? Its always seen as an either/or situation with those kinds of people. They don't realize that Cryptic CAN DO BOTH at the same time. Not only that, as an MMO, there is no such thing as a Bug Free game. The SECOND you update the game, either with new code or updated code, something somewhere is not going to play well with it. There are always bugs. Scale of bug varies.
That's just how things are with MMOs.
We all wish Cryptic was as big as, say, Square Enix, and fully capable of doing massive things like FF14. But being a smaller company... things might not be as fast or as grand. BUT... we're still here coming up on 14 years now I believe. That's saying something.
STO is fully capable of doing both Bug Fixing and new development. Its not an Either/Or situation. And Bug Hunting is not as easy as you think. Its not a case of "Oh this isn't working right. I'mma gonna flip this switch and problem solved!" No. Its "dear got what bits of code in god knows how many lines of code isn't playing well with each other?"
Bug Hunting takes time. Think of it like looking through a full novel for a single typo or misplaced punctuation mark. Then multiply that by the age of the game at least.
Especially when the players just post THIS is BROKE FIX IT NAO. no screen shot, no description of what you were doing, nothing.
it' like taking your car to the mechanic and saying it's broke fix it. well, is it a flat tire? or a bad spark plug?
In the wise words of Spock, "A joke... is a story with a humorous climax." Simply making a "dooooooommmmm!" statement, and then following it by saying "it was just a joke", fails to achieve humor.
There is nothing in my post about. "DOOOM!" Nowhere does it say the game will end without Cryptic immediately acting on my suggestion. Language is a precision tool and ought to be used as such.
As to, ahem, "A joke... is a story with a humorous climax.". Two things:
1) Hyperbole is a legitimate form of humor. Disappointing to find out in public you're unaware of this.
2) Thank you for helping to prove my point about there being so little sense of fun and joy around here.
So, just for you and vetteguy, and to get back on topic, I'm going to repost my statement. I promise to type slower and use smaller words. I will also remove any and all humor from the post. Ready? Here goes.
I agree with the person who posted about Ground Stuff needing to be better in this game.
Player versus Player part of this game needs to be better.
...what am I saying? Doesn't matter. None of the Devs will ever read this. More than likely, this post will be removed. This will be because I have expressed ideas here which most people do not like. I do not post here very much anymore. I do lurk once in awhile. Just to see what ridiculous things others are posting.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,418Community Moderator
...
I think its more likely that your idea of humor differs, as joking about being modded for an "unpopular opinion" is a bit crass and honestly from my POV, not that funny. It implies that we mods go out of our way to hunt "unpopular opinions" and are heavy handed in our duties. We don't and we're not. In fact its borderline "Discussion of Moderation".
As for PvP... the Devs have tried in the past to generate more interest in it. It was called Competitive Rep. It kinda bombed. PvP as it stands now is way off balance as a lot of high end builds designed to vaporize enemies in PvE, are geared towards dealing with targets with MUCH MORE HP than any player is capable of having. Turn that on a player... they literally divide by 0 ON SIGHT. That is not fun. That is rather frustrating for the player on the recieving end. Especially when its the equivalent of being spawn camped like what can happen in Core Assault. I speak from experience.
As of right now there is no way to balance PvP without a highly extensive and invasive change to the game itself, devoting a lot of time and manpower to that, which could take away from other areas of the game.
Is PvP neglected? Yea I'd say so.
Is it unplayable? Not necessarily. Any open PvP areas or Direct PvP queues can be slanted one way or the other by the presence of a High End Player to the point the opposing team just can't compete at all. However INDIRECT PvP like Twin Tribulations, where the two teams don't come into direct combat with each other, is probably still more evenly matched as its a Mechanics Race, not just pure DPS.
I'd like the game to dump lock boxes. Never have liked 'em. Never will like em. Want over priced stuff from lobi store? First buy overpriced keys and roll your RNG on a lock box. Gambling and the spirit of star trek are a very very very poor fit and always have been. Its been over a decade. For gods sake DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
> @oldkhemaraa said: > I'd like the game to dump lock boxes. Never have liked 'em. Never will like em. Want over priced stuff from lobi store? First buy overpriced keys and roll your RNG on a lock box. Gambling and the spirit of star trek are a very very very poor fit and always have been. Its been over a decade. For gods sake DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
That is not going to happen, lockboxes are their moneymaker. If you don't want to interact with them then don't.
First, you can get lobi as an option from the Event Campaigns and not just lockboxes. Secondly, you can buy keys at regular prices or on sale and sell them on the exchange. Then you can get the ship that you want from the lockboxes and can even buy Lobi Store ships from there as well. You can even buy the lockboxes on the exchange. Keys have even shown up in anniversary giveaways in the past.
With that said, I really wish they would add lockbox keys to the RNG drops and add back the current lockbox that drops during missions, TFOs, and not just from the C-Store. I play a game where they do that.
Edited: Updated post due to additional info received.
Post edited by sthe91 on
Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,418Community Moderator
Actually you can buy Lobi store ships on the Exchange as well for ECs. They're not bind on pickup. Hell for a while the Vengeance was one of the cheepest T6 ships on the Exchange for some reason.
> @rattler2 said: > Actually you can buy Lobi store ships on the Exchange as well for ECs. They're not bind on pickup. Hell for a while the Vengeance was one of the cheepest T6 ships on the Exchange for some reason.
I did not know that! I will update my post. Thanks.
I'd like the game to dump lock boxes. Never have liked 'em. Never will like em. Want over priced stuff from lobi store? First buy overpriced keys and roll your RNG on a lock box. Gambling and the spirit of star trek are a very very very poor fit and always have been. Its been over a decade. For gods sake DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
Lockboxes are both a blessing and a curse (chances of getting anything useful are low but they spread the cost of a ship or gear out into more affordable chunks scattered across the whole key-buying population), but I would rather put up with them instead of the other options like subscription-only or the price of ships going through the roof and double or triple in price or more.
Reading between the lines of dev comments, Mudds was almost certainly the contingency plan if the EU had carried out their threat of outlawing lockboxes in all games. Sure, in Mudds you know exactly what you are getting, but it is a whales-only situation, especially after the FOMO sale period (and I suspect they could not have the repeat sales anywhere near as often as they do now if Mudds was the primary income source instead of the boxes).
My only problem with lock boxes is the chances of getting something good are a little too low. I'm not saying the odds should be super-great or anything, only that managing one ship in six years (Section 31 Intel Science Destroyer, for what it's worth) strikes me as a trifle excessive.
My only problem with lock boxes is the chances of getting something good are a little too low. I'm not saying the odds should be super-great or anything, only that managing one ship in six years (Section 31 Intel Science Destroyer, for what it's worth) strikes me as a trifle excessive.
As I recall, the rate found by folks opening tons of boxes on the test server was around 1.5%. Problem is, that's a new roll every single time you open the box, so no matter how long you keep opening boxes, your odds on the next box are still 1.5% to get a T6 ship.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,418Community Moderator
Yea... that's the downside. It doesn't stack up.
I THINK there's a pity system set up in Neverwinter, but don't quote me on that. I haven't played Neverwinter in years, and last time I played their version of the Dilithium Exchange was in MUCH worse shape than STO's ever got because the demand for Astral Diamonds was an order of magnitude higher and things in their C-Store were more expensive. Like the equivalent of a BOff... was the same price as one of our T6 ships.
But again my knowledge is several years out of date.
Yes, Neverwinter has a pity system. And last it was talked about for STO, Bort said they would look at their data before they would consider implementing something similar. Of course, that's been some time now. Might be worth asking about on the next Livestream.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
I'd like episodes to deal more in environmental story telling and narrative emersion. Ie. things there not just to fill the minimum objective path but optional contact points for lore and the odd reward drop. Last episode I noticed I had to do a bunch of backtracking if an objective wasn't right next to a corresponding dead end because I wasn't being rewarded at all for processing the environment around me. The MU Borg regeneration nodes are a step in this direction but when moving about environments STO could do a LOT better with its format by giving players some worldbuilding dialog on the side (which also helps missions scale to player interest. Don't care? Run on through. Want more meat? Here's stuff to linger with.)
101 advice I'd give from my Foundry days, best thing you can do with this format of gaming. Treat is slightly more like a CRPG/TTRPG and less a shooter. This approach is single handedly responsible for the career I had there and the deeper engagement folks had with my work (the impacts of which still continue this day in our residual subcommunity). STO can already be deeply endearing, but there's a step change in how much players can care if there's just a little more narrative fodder, carefully written to add to the setting.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
...when moving about environments STO could do a LOT better with its format by giving players some worldbuilding dialog on the side (which also helps missions scale to player interest. Don't care? Run on through. Want more meat? Here's stuff to linger with.)
One good example of this comes from the unfairly-maligned Fallout 76 (yes, it was buggy as frak on release, and forced PvP was a huge misstep, but both have been largely corrected now). Wherever you go, there are notes, holotapes, and computer entries on life just before and just after the War (most of the survivors were killed about ten years after the War by the rise of Scorched disease and the rampant attacks by its victims, who were tied into a malevolent hive mind). If you stop to read them, you can learn about things like the battles between the townies, who ruled the streets of Morgantown, and the VTU students who held the upper floors of the buildings and built so many little bridges between them; or the story of how exactly Scorched began running rampant over West Virginia, which also ties into the origin of the Scorchbeasts, huge mutated bats that spread the disease; or the tale of what went wrong in Vault 95, and why everything inside is covered in ice. If you don't, you can still get through the game just fine, as the only sections you need to read or listen to the notes for are when you're rebuilding the warning network the Free Staters developed and when you're tracking down Taggerdy's Thunder, the old Army unit that became the first chapter of the Brotherhood of Steel in Appalachia. There are also a number of minor tragedies told strictly in the environment, like the skeleton found in a bathtub in Grafton with a working radio still in the tub.
I don't know if STO has enough people still working on environmental art to be able to fit things like that in, but it would be cool to find, like, a tricorder aboard an abandoned starship with someone's personal log entries about what that person was going through when whatever happened happened.
Some people have, in the past, requested a full Season of just Bug Fixes. However they fail to understand that there are people who are NOT Coders working for Cryptic as well. Envionmental Artists, Character Artists, Ship Artists, ex cetera. Are they supposed to just sit on their hands while the Bug Hunters do everything?
Well, the other part of the argument about a bug fix season or two (and this was even mentioned by Andre Emmerson just before he moved off the game) is the much-promised revamps of those removed Klingon War missions. It's been over 5 years.
What if, for example, they fired an artist and hired an additional coder? Entrepreneurs constantly tell me that companies always have to be flexible in order to survive in the market?
What if, for example, they fired an artist and hired an additional coder? Entrepreneurs constantly tell me that companies always have to be flexible in order to survive in the market?
The problem come when they need that artist, it's not like they have that many of them to begin with and getting a new one is gonna be very hard. That's not gonna be being flexible that's admitting you're not gonna develop new content. And that's assuming fixing doesn't need artists.
What if, for example, they fired an artist and hired an additional coder? Entrepreneurs constantly tell me that companies always have to be flexible in order to survive in the market?
Hmmm.....Fire an artist, and you'd be lucky if you get 2 episodes a year. They have to strike a balance. No point having a load of 'coders' if there's no art coming through. The art is probably just as labour-intensive as coding.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
smoother gameplay, as for less is more, less Zen for sought after ships would mean more sales. but that will never change. The Dilithium cost for crafting could use a rethink 17k Dil to speed up a 20 hour cycle is gouging imo. Or add a secondary market exchange for Dilithium/Zen. What really blows my mind is that Devs need math for coding and not easy math at that. but toss in some game economics and boom everyone loses there minds.
Perhaps its time I personally take my own advice own up to a very simple Fact. Games don't improve or get updates accordingly to age and technology, I play them on a time investment only and not a wallet investment. This is not just a single game however, its the entire gaming industry, too many newer games get launched then after the hype money dwindles so dose development and consideration to gaming community's who actually spent money to keep the dev teams working. Anyhow, jaded maybe ambitious for something getting done, not likely lol.
Post edited by bcstar on
"bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"
Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,418Community Moderator
Uh... wut?
We have a Dilithium Exchange where DL and Zen can be traded. Yea its currently capped out at 500/1 with several days wait...
As a Trill, I would like to be able to beam to my home world. Humans, Romulans, Klingons, Bejorans, Vulcans, all have planets they can at least beam to. Why can't we or all other playable species?
As a Trill, I would like to be able to beam to my home world. Humans, Romulans, Klingons, Bejorans, Vulcans, all have planets they can at least beam to. Why can't we or all other playable species?
If I'm following the conversation correctly, this is probably because it would require an increase in the number of creating artists. It would also be terrible if your character drowned in a buggy hoobishan bath
Games: the final frontier. These are the episodes of the Star Trek enterprise. Its one-year mission: to encode strange new worlds; to seek out new playstyles and new visualizations; to boldly go where no MMO has gone before!
Back in the day, we had Exploration nebula and Foundry to scratch that "strange new worlds" itch. Now, all new content is in the hands of the devs, and we know it's both expensive and time-consuming to do it that way. What I'd like to see in 2024 is some method of creating a Random TFO (ground or space) that draws from an array of backdrops and setpieces and procedurally generated stuff to create random encounters that aren't just the same every time.
Well, that along with a whole host of things that've been mentioned before, like the long list of "better Dil sink" ideas and slightly more responsive ground combat. Also, can we please please PLEASE change the behavior where whenever a new dialog button pops up, it pushes the existing dialog (that you're trying to click on) out of the way and takes its' place? Because that's really annoying. Just leave any currently displayed interaction button where it is, and add new ones above it.
I would like to see a solution to the vfx and sfx overload spam. Then they can come up with all of the silly abilities and over the top visuals and sound effects they want and i dont have to see or listen to it. Im not gonna hope to much, its been years at this point, the original post that they asked the community to respond to got unpinned in november, is now closed, and four pages back in the general discussion log.
One thing I'd love is a token that can be used to unlock a ship you already have for the whole account. Maybe that could be something for Epic Phoenix tokens to be able to redeem.
Actually, what's in the Epic Phoenix store would be something I'd like to see addressed. Maybe add T6 tokens. As is, an epic token is as hard to get as anything and there isn't much to do with them if you unlocked ships from events.
Comments
That's just how things are with MMOs.
We all wish Cryptic was as big as, say, Square Enix, and fully capable of doing massive things like FF14. But being a smaller company... things might not be as fast or as grand. BUT... we're still here coming up on 14 years now I believe. That's saying something.
Especially when the players just post THIS is BROKE FIX IT NAO. no screen shot, no description of what you were doing, nothing.
it' like taking your car to the mechanic and saying it's broke fix it. well, is it a flat tire? or a bad spark plug?
There is nothing in my post about. "DOOOM!" Nowhere does it say the game will end without Cryptic immediately acting on my suggestion. Language is a precision tool and ought to be used as such.
As to, ahem, "A joke... is a story with a humorous climax.". Two things:
1) Hyperbole is a legitimate form of humor. Disappointing to find out in public you're unaware of this.
2) Thank you for helping to prove my point about there being so little sense of fun and joy around here.
So, just for you and vetteguy, and to get back on topic, I'm going to repost my statement. I promise to type slower and use smaller words. I will also remove any and all humor from the post. Ready? Here goes.
I agree with the person who posted about Ground Stuff needing to be better in this game.
Player versus Player part of this game needs to be better.
...what am I saying? Doesn't matter. None of the Devs will ever read this. More than likely, this post will be removed. This will be because I have expressed ideas here which most people do not like. I do not post here very much anymore. I do lurk once in awhile. Just to see what ridiculous things others are posting.
I think its more likely that your idea of humor differs, as joking about being modded for an "unpopular opinion" is a bit crass and honestly from my POV, not that funny. It implies that we mods go out of our way to hunt "unpopular opinions" and are heavy handed in our duties. We don't and we're not. In fact its borderline "Discussion of Moderation".
As for PvP... the Devs have tried in the past to generate more interest in it. It was called Competitive Rep. It kinda bombed. PvP as it stands now is way off balance as a lot of high end builds designed to vaporize enemies in PvE, are geared towards dealing with targets with MUCH MORE HP than any player is capable of having. Turn that on a player... they literally divide by 0 ON SIGHT. That is not fun. That is rather frustrating for the player on the recieving end. Especially when its the equivalent of being spawn camped like what can happen in Core Assault. I speak from experience.
As of right now there is no way to balance PvP without a highly extensive and invasive change to the game itself, devoting a lot of time and manpower to that, which could take away from other areas of the game.
Is PvP neglected? Yea I'd say so.
Is it unplayable? Not necessarily. Any open PvP areas or Direct PvP queues can be slanted one way or the other by the presence of a High End Player to the point the opposing team just can't compete at all. However INDIRECT PvP like Twin Tribulations, where the two teams don't come into direct combat with each other, is probably still more evenly matched as its a Mechanics Race, not just pure DPS.
> I'd like the game to dump lock boxes. Never have liked 'em. Never will like em. Want over priced stuff from lobi store? First buy overpriced keys and roll your RNG on a lock box. Gambling and the spirit of star trek are a very very very poor fit and always have been. Its been over a decade. For gods sake DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
That is not going to happen, lockboxes are their moneymaker. If you don't want to interact with them then don't.
First, you can get lobi as an option from the Event Campaigns and not just lockboxes. Secondly, you can buy keys at regular prices or on sale and sell them on the exchange. Then you can get the ship that you want from the lockboxes and can even buy Lobi Store ships from there as well. You can even buy the lockboxes on the exchange. Keys have even shown up in anniversary giveaways in the past.
With that said, I really wish they would add lockbox keys to the RNG drops and add back the current lockbox that drops during missions, TFOs, and not just from the C-Store. I play a game where they do that.
Edited: Updated post due to additional info received.
> Actually you can buy Lobi store ships on the Exchange as well for ECs. They're not bind on pickup. Hell for a while the Vengeance was one of the cheepest T6 ships on the Exchange for some reason.
I did not know that! I will update my post. Thanks.
that's the price one pays for F2P
Reading between the lines of dev comments, Mudds was almost certainly the contingency plan if the EU had carried out their threat of outlawing lockboxes in all games. Sure, in Mudds you know exactly what you are getting, but it is a whales-only situation, especially after the FOMO sale period (and I suspect they could not have the repeat sales anywhere near as often as they do now if Mudds was the primary income source instead of the boxes).
I THINK there's a pity system set up in Neverwinter, but don't quote me on that. I haven't played Neverwinter in years, and last time I played their version of the Dilithium Exchange was in MUCH worse shape than STO's ever got because the demand for Astral Diamonds was an order of magnitude higher and things in their C-Store were more expensive. Like the equivalent of a BOff... was the same price as one of our T6 ships.
But again my knowledge is several years out of date.
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101 advice I'd give from my Foundry days, best thing you can do with this format of gaming. Treat is slightly more like a CRPG/TTRPG and less a shooter. This approach is single handedly responsible for the career I had there and the deeper engagement folks had with my work (the impacts of which still continue this day in our residual subcommunity). STO can already be deeply endearing, but there's a step change in how much players can care if there's just a little more narrative fodder, carefully written to add to the setting.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I don't know if STO has enough people still working on environmental art to be able to fit things like that in, but it would be cool to find, like, a tricorder aboard an abandoned starship with someone's personal log entries about what that person was going through when whatever happened happened.
Well, the other part of the argument about a bug fix season or two (and this was even mentioned by Andre Emmerson just before he moved off the game) is the much-promised revamps of those removed Klingon War missions. It's been over 5 years.
The problem come when they need that artist, it's not like they have that many of them to begin with and getting a new one is gonna be very hard. That's not gonna be being flexible that's admitting you're not gonna develop new content. And that's assuming fixing doesn't need artists.
Hmmm.....Fire an artist, and you'd be lucky if you get 2 episodes a year. They have to strike a balance. No point having a load of 'coders' if there's no art coming through. The art is probably just as labour-intensive as coding.
Perhaps its time I personally take my own advice own up to a very simple Fact. Games don't improve or get updates accordingly to age and technology, I play them on a time investment only and not a wallet investment. This is not just a single game however, its the entire gaming industry, too many newer games get launched then after the hype money dwindles so dose development and consideration to gaming community's who actually spent money to keep the dev teams working. Anyhow, jaded maybe ambitious for something getting done, not likely lol.
"bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"
Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
We have a Dilithium Exchange where DL and Zen can be traded. Yea its currently capped out at 500/1 with several days wait...
Also... wut?
If I'm following the conversation correctly, this is probably because it would require an increase in the number of creating artists. It would also be terrible if your character drowned in a buggy hoobishan bath
Back in the day, we had Exploration nebula and Foundry to scratch that "strange new worlds" itch. Now, all new content is in the hands of the devs, and we know it's both expensive and time-consuming to do it that way. What I'd like to see in 2024 is some method of creating a Random TFO (ground or space) that draws from an array of backdrops and setpieces and procedurally generated stuff to create random encounters that aren't just the same every time.
Well, that along with a whole host of things that've been mentioned before, like the long list of "better Dil sink" ideas and slightly more responsive ground combat. Also, can we please please PLEASE change the behavior where whenever a new dialog button pops up, it pushes the existing dialog (that you're trying to click on) out of the way and takes its' place? Because that's really annoying. Just leave any currently displayed interaction button where it is, and add new ones above it.
Actually, what's in the Epic Phoenix store would be something I'd like to see addressed. Maybe add T6 tokens. As is, an epic token is as hard to get as anything and there isn't much to do with them if you unlocked ships from events.