Change to Standard Stance?

vorwoda

Was there a stealth change to standard stance animations recently? IIRC, it used to be much more formal/military/less casual. Now there's yawning, stretching, chin scratching and leg-lifting. It looks WAY less disciplined than the old style, and very inappropriate to many species.

It would have been much better if they had simply made a new stance, rather than changing the default after so many years. At least give us the option to get the old Standard back.

protoneous

Yes, it appears that something has changed. Noticed the new behavior yesterday, Thursday Sept 22.

rattler2

I think they did add new idle animations.

krisxr400

I had noticed it a week ago, or more I think, and I liked it. Seemed much more natural, more real. Different posses while holding a weapon also.

jameswillie

Nothing like a Captain looking like they really really gotta go pee.

vorwoda

It would have been nice if added as a new choice (more choice = good)! But to change every captain's default from disciplined military officer to undisciplined squirmy human civilian - regardless of whether they might be a stoic Vulcan, Gorn, Klingon, Romulan, or Borg, for example - and to do so without any warning after over 12 years, is a very uncool way of doing things.

baddmoonrizin

Several of my toons use the "Stern" stance and I've noticed no change to it, so this must be to one of the other stances. I'd love to see some new ones added as well, though.

fleetcaptain5

rattler2 wrote: »

I think they did add new idle animations.

It's not really idle though, even when managing bank business my toons make the new animations with some stances.

I also didn't notice any change to the stern stance.

Also agreed with the OP that any change should be made into a new stance, if possible. I hope they also do that with the new rifle stance animations. The current ones seem a bit too relaxed / not alert enough for - even between - combat situations.

rattler2

I never viewed standard as "alert". Just... I'm standing around. To me the new animations feel fine, and make the character feel less rigid and robotic.

I don't mind if my characters stretch or shift around, because it makes them feel more alive.

And I wouldn't underestimate any military officer in any branch on their ability to "switch to alert mode" quickly. Its just like how firefighters can be playing cards one minute, and scrambling to gear up when the alarm goes off the next.

Another example from Stargate is in one episode Col. O'Neill tells his team to "go to ground, boots on, no fire". They're basically setting camp without setting camp. Relax, but be ready to move. And of course they always have at least one member on watch.

ltminns

They probably wanted to match the idiot NPCs on DS9 that have no control over their continual twitching about.

rattler2

ltminns wrote: »

They probably wanted to match the idiot NPCs on DS9 that have no control over their continual twitching about.

I'd be more concerned about the gravity defying NPCs that go between the upper and lower levels by walking on air. There's some weird shtako goin' on aboard DS9.

bjorjlen

Yeah, as I tend to give all the character I am playing and his/her Boff's different stances from each other, I am in full agreement that new stances would be nice to have...

Peace...

vorwoda

baddmoonrizin wrote: »

Several of my toons use the "Stern" stance and I've noticed no change to it, so this must be to one of the other stances. I'd love to see some new ones added as well, though.

Thanks! Stern and Swagger both seem free of the new animations, so I've gone through and switched each my captains to one or the other of them. Now to do all the BOFFS that I had not already switched from Standard.

shrimphead2015

I would like the choice of idle animations. I'm not too crazy about the new ones , especially the one with the rifle resting on the shoulder. It looks too relaxed for my taste.

baddmoonrizin

shrimphead2015 wrote: »

I would like the choice of idle animations. I'm not too crazy about the new ones , especially the one with the rifle resting on the shoulder. It looks too relaxed for my taste.

Plus, no actual soldier would do that.

rattler2

Modern soldiers perhaps, but we have seen Starfleet Officers do so several times, but mostly when they're not in a firefight. Usually when they're in a field briefing or not in immediate danger. I think even The Sisko himself has done it during the Dominion War.


May not look professional, but there is precident for Starfleet Officers to do so. Seen on screen.

shrimphead2015

I would still like the choice to make my officers animation the way I want them to animate , not have it forced upon me.

baddmoonrizin

rattler2 wrote: »

Modern soldiers perhaps, but we have seen Starfleet Officers do so several times, but mostly when they're not in a firefight. Usually when they're in a field briefing or not in immediate danger. I think even The Sisko himself has done it during the Dominion War.


May not look professional, but there is precident for Starfleet Officers to do so. Seen on screen.

Well, that's some Hollywood BS right there.

phoenixc

The gun over the shoulder thing is not a modern military stance, it comes from civilian gunfighters and "buffalo hunters" in the old west. You see that kind of thing a lot in old photographs.

I have heard that it was mostly because longarms back then were not particularly well balanced and usually lacked carry grips like a modern assault rifle has, along with the fact that the old heavy barrels retained heat more and were therefor unpleasantly warm for a while after use, so they would rest the barrel on their coat shoulder.

I haven't looked into it in any depth though so it may just be some nonsense made up for western pulps by writers looking at the old photos (and the photographers may have just posed them like that for style reasons). On the other hand, often soldiers would march with theirs rifles or muskets over their shoulder and it may have seemed more practical to the gunfighters to hold them closer to the trigger(s) rather than at the end of the stock (proper marching position) or something.

rattler2

Nowadays it might just be a holdover as well as a pop culture thing, but if you think about it... its still a bit in a ready position, especially if its one you can sling across your shoulder. It would take less time to bring the rifle down off your shoulder, than it would to pull it off your back when slung.

So in a practical sense... its kind of an in between posture. I'm alert, but I'm not active. Kinda like the "go to ground, boots on, no fire" line from Stargate. Relaxed, but not TOO relaxed.

And professional looking or not, I wouldn't be surprised to see some modern RL soldiers do something like this, especially in a long deployment or something. Human nature being what it is, trained or not. And in a firefight... the seconds it takes to bring the rifle off your shoulder vs pulling it off your back could make all the difference. I'd estimate 2-3 seconds maybe from the shoulder rest vs maybe 7+ taking it off your back. (just guessing but realistically it would be faster to just drop the business end into your other hand)

And at least with modern firearms... having the barrel elevated like that means you're not getting dirt or anything in it.

So... it can really go in any direction. Practical, personal comfort, just looks badass cool...
There are some things that we humans do that used to have a purpose, but don't anymore due to technology. We still do them anyways. Why? Because why not?

dragon

rattler2 wrote: »

Modern soldiers perhaps, but we have seen Starfleet Officers do so several times, but mostly when they're not in a firefight. Usually when they're in a field briefing or not in immediate danger. I think even The Sisko himself has done it during the Dominion War.


May not look professional, but there is precident for Starfleet Officers to do so. Seen on screen.

What it looks like is it violates several gun safety standards, though admittedly it isn't the worst I've seen in Star Trek.

baddmoonrizin

rattler2 wrote: »

Nowadays it might just be a holdover as well as a pop culture thing, but if you think about it... its still a bit in a ready position, especially if its one you can sling across your shoulder. It would take less time to bring the rifle down off your shoulder, than it would to pull it off your back when slung.

So in a practical sense... its kind of an in between posture. I'm alert, but I'm not active. Kinda like the "go to ground, boots on, no fire" line from Stargate. Relaxed, but not TOO relaxed.

And professional looking or not, I wouldn't be surprised to see some modern RL soldiers do something like this, especially in a long deployment or something. Human nature being what it is, trained or not. And in a firefight... the seconds it takes to bring the rifle off your shoulder vs pulling it off your back could make all the difference. I'd estimate 2-3 seconds maybe from the shoulder rest vs maybe 7+ taking it off your back. (just guessing but realistically it would be faster to just drop the business end into your other hand)

And at least with modern firearms... having the barrel elevated like that means you're not getting dirt or anything in it.

So... it can really go in any direction. Practical, personal comfort, just looks badass cool...
There are some things that we humans do that used to have a purpose, but don't anymore due to technology. We still do them anyways. Why? Because why not?

Well, as a retired, professional soldier, this is just a no-go. Modern RL soldiers do not do this. "Professional" looking or not, it's just not SAFE. Big safety rule in the military: don't flag your buddy. The barrel is not straight up-and-down for one, so you could end up accidently shooting someone in the face. In a "long deployment," which I assume you mean a "ruck march," no, you wouldn't do this either, because you could end up in a firefight at any given moment. And if you're going into a firefight or think you might, you're going to have your weapon at the ready and not slung across your shoulder. That 2-3 seconds you think it would take to get it into firing position from the shoulder, is all it would take to get dead. And taking it off your back? Nobody even does that. When your moving with your weapon, it's in your hands. Always.

shrimphead2015

baddmoonrizin wrote: »

Well, as a retired, professional soldier, this is just a no-go. Modern RL soldiers do not do this. "Professional" looking or not, it's just not SAFE. Big safety rule in the military: don't flag your buddy. The barrel is not straight up-and-down for one, so you could end up accidently shooting someone in the face. In a "long deployment," which I assume you mean a "ruck march," no, you wouldn't do this either, because you could end up in a firefight at any given moment. And if you're going into a firefight or think you might, you're going to have your weapon at the ready and not slung across your shoulder. That 2-3 seconds you think it would take to get it into firing position from the shoulder, is all it would take to get dead. And taking it off your back? Nobody even does that. When your moving with your weapon, it's in your hands. Always.

I totally agree with this statement . Any firearms instructor would freak out if he or she would catch one of their shooters holding the weapon that way.

As far as the game goes. I have no problem if anyone wants and likes these animations but I would like it more if I had the choice to use which idle animations I like. That is my only problem game-wise I have with this.

phoenixc

To be fair, while it is not a great practice for safety the targeting AI (it has been shown many times that the weapons seem lock on and will fire slightly off-axis to hit the target if need be) probably would keep a phaser rifle (or SMG in that thing's case) from firing if it is improperly held. It is still sloppy and unprofessional looking though.

fleetcaptain5

shrimphead2015 wrote: »

baddmoonrizin wrote: »

Well, as a retired, professional soldier, this is just a no-go. Modern RL soldiers do not do this. "Professional" looking or not, it's just not SAFE. Big safety rule in the military: don't flag your buddy. The barrel is not straight up-and-down for one, so you could end up accidently shooting someone in the face. In a "long deployment," which I assume you mean a "ruck march," no, you wouldn't do this either, because you could end up in a firefight at any given moment. And if you're going into a firefight or think you might, you're going to have your weapon at the ready and not slung across your shoulder. That 2-3 seconds you think it would take to get it into firing position from the shoulder, is all it would take to get dead. And taking it off your back? Nobody even does that. When your moving with your weapon, it's in your hands. Always.

I totally agree with this statement . Any firearms instructor would freak out if he or she would catch one of their shooters holding the weapon that way.

As far as the game goes. I have no problem if anyone wants and likes these animations but I would like it more if I had the choice to use which idle animations I like. That is my only problem game-wise I have with this.

Making it a choice would be best indeed.

It's worth to note though: they've been making multiple changes recently, also to some other animations. Like those of Voth spec ops, who will charge noticably differently at players - to give just one example. So who knows, maybe it'll be changed again in a few weeks. It seems they're also trying out some new things, mostly.


Oh, and they should also check which NPCs are using the new animations. Earlier today, I saw Borg do the somewhat exasperated shrugging thing on Defera (not sure how to describe it, I just hope you guys know what I mean).
I hope we can at least all agree that Borg drones and newly assimilated Deferi shouldn't act too casual.