> @sthe91 said:
> I don't why Cryptic did not hire the actor who played Reginald Barclay but if the reason was political that is a lame excuse. I understand why Jennifer Lien will never be hired to voice Kes.
It most certainly is political. The developers are San-franscicans and tend to be pretty liberal. Sure they could probably play nicely with Dwight Schultz, but I think they would rather not. I don’t blame them. I wouldn’t want to talk politics with that guy either.
I'm assuming by political reasons we're talking more about going off the rails crazy talk sort of thing than actual political affiliation or voting a certain way. At least I hope this is the case, as if it isn't thats getting into potentially dangerous and unethical territory for alot of reasons. Not the least of which is that california is one of two states in the US where political affiliation is explicitly protected under state anti discrimination civil rights laws, so you really don't want to put yourself in a situation where it remotely looks like you're showing bias against a hire, or anyone else for that matter because of their politics. So if we're talking about an oil-water situation its probably best not to reach out at all, lest somebody say or do the wrong thing and give anybody a reason to start trouble for everyone involved. Not that anybody should be discussing politics in such a situation anyway, especially where something like VO is involved. You show up, do the VO work and leave
The other half of the equation is that people went out and spent money on these things because they were so powerful so they have to figure out the balance there, how to to make people feel like they got their money's worth, but not wanting there to be one item in the game thats just so much more powerful then anything else.
and therein lies the problem. Its a big sticking point as the reason many people buy alot of the ships that they do isn't even just for the ships themselves but the consoles or unique weapons a particular ship might have. Hell its the only reason most people even still buy T5 ships at all, let alone T6's. So really there are only three practical ways to deal with that issue: leave it as is, nerf them and make the people that bought those ships displeased or leave them as they are and enable some of the consoles to be obtained in another manner, like the phoenix store, lobi store or mudds store. I'm not sure about the practicality of the last option as things tend to be so overpriced there that it would be cheaper to just buy the ship normally. Plus its more for things you can't get any other way
Kael made a passionate case in the leads meeting a few weeks ago about getting the removed Klingon War missions back. There was a question on if players would play a season of just remastering the old Klingon War missions, with no new content, and responses seemed pretty positive. So there's talks about possibly doing a season with just that.
While i'd like to see them back, i'm not so sure thats a good idea. Thats a long time to go without new content and advancing the story, only to get something we've already done. At this point they've been gone so long i'm not even sure there is any point to bringing them back. Especially if doing so involves holding back other things
A good guy Terran Faction is also doable, just make the PC a defector or a spy or a transporter duplicate of the Inquisitor like Thomas Riker and then have them serve Starfleet simply because their goals align.
....Then it wouldn't really be a terran faction by definition. Terrans don't really operate that way
Even better: emperor Neelix. Worked his way up by poisoning his enemies with leola root stew
The funny thing is I can actually see that kind of working, other than the whole he isn't human thing. Kind of reminds me of how putins grandfather was stalins personal chef. Though they'd have to include some hilarious cutscene where neelix poisons the previous emperor, only to reveal it wasn't poisoned at all and he's just so awful at cooking in that universe that his leola root stew kills anyone who eats it through sheer taste alone. Maybe have the whole storyline be good neelix trying to reform evil neelix and make him a competent cook, only to hire him after the player defeats him.....leading to a scene at the victory party held in the mess hall on voyager where tuvok walks in to get something to eat, sees two neelix's working in the kitchen, gives a hell no expression and quietly leaves......or thats his breaking point and he finally strangles what he thought was terran neelix only to find out it was the wrong one...leading to everyone in the room turning around and clapping and raising toasts.....only to have tuvok suddenly wake up and realize the entire mission was a dream
If it is easy to fail the team on purpose, then it will not be liked because it WILL be abused. We've seen it in the past.
Indeed. The golden rule for those sorts of situations is the assumption that if it can be abused it will be abused and to consider the ways a given system could be abused and how you'd do it before even considering implementing it. That isn't to say you'll ever be able to prevent it 100% of the time but you should do whatever you can to minimize the possibilities of abuse whenever you can
Even better: emperor Neelix. Worked his way up by poisoning his enemies with leola root stew
The funny thing is I can actually see that kind of working, other than the whole he isn't human thing. Kind of reminds me of how putins grandfather was stalins personal chef. Though they'd have to include some hilarious cutscene where neelix poisons the previous emperor, only to reveal it wasn't poisoned at all and he's just so awful at cooking in that universe that his leola root stew kills anyone who eats it through sheer taste alone. Maybe have the whole storyline be good neelix trying to reform evil neelix and make him a competent cook, only to hire him after the player defeats him.....leading to a scene at the victory party held in the mess hall on voyager where tuvok walks in to get something to eat, sees two neelix's working in the kitchen, gives a hell no expression and quietly leaves......or thats his breaking point and he finally strangles what he thought was terran neelix only to find out it was the wrong one...leading to everyone in the room turning around and clapping and raising toasts.....only to have tuvok suddenly wake up and realize the entire mission was a dream
I feel like Marshal Janeway would have kept Tuvix, keeping them as Tuvix seemed like your stereotypical Terran Punishment plus no point in having a Vulcan who could logically plot against her, like she would've learned what not to do after what happened between Kirk and Emperor Spock, Tuvix's mere existence essentially kills two birds with one stone, instead of dealing with 2 enemies she now has to deal with 1.
As for STO being "in its own Universe/Timeline"...I have a feeling Picard S3 will take care of that issue for them. (Hell S2 added a number of Borg incongruities already. And ESD in the Picard S3 promo has some exterior additions/updates that seem to be missing from STO's ESD of 10 years or so later.)
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,660Community Moderator
I thought he did alright with the evil. And apparently he played a pretty convincing antagonist in Dark Matter. He may not be as active in acting as others, but he's better than he used to be back in TNG, and they gave him better material to work with.
Will he still take flak for how Wesley was written in TNG? Probably. But I'm not judging him now on how he was back then. I'm judging him now on what he's doing now.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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But I'm not judging him now on how he was back then. I'm judging him now on what he's doing now.
Neither am I. They could give him the best written material ever put to page and he still would could not act his way out of a wet paper bag.
He actually does villains and not-quite-villain antagonists rather well. While he is not believable as the traditional hard-as-nails power-villain type, he can do a great creepy and annoying vibe that plotter-type villains (and obstructionist antagonists like the "overbearing-jerk boss" type) have which sets him up well for the deadly-serious version of "evil nerd" trope parts.
Ok, val, we get it. You don't like Wil Wheaton/Wesley Crusher.
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But I'm not judging him now on how he was back then. I'm judging him now on what he's doing now.
Neither am I. They could give him the best written material ever put to page and he still would could not act his way out of a wet paper bag.
He actually does villains and not-quite-villain antagonists rather well. While he is not believable as the traditional hard-as-nails power-villain type, he can do a great creepy and annoying vibe that plotter-type villains (and obstructionist antagonists like the "overbearing-jerk boss" type) have which sets him up well for the deadly-serious version of "evil nerd" trope parts.
Like Lex Luthor?, That nerd turned to villainy because of his baldness, also stole 40 cakes and suffers from Kryptonite induced Cancer, and... yes Kryptonite is just as deadly on Humans as it is on Kryptonians, it just affects humans at a much slower rate.
Ok, val, we get it. You don't like Wil Wheaton/Wesley Crusher.
I am sure he is a very nice person in real life.
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Hell S2 added a number of Borg incongruities already.
Not really, it did introduce a new Borg faction but it would be easy to either explain their absence in Delta Rising or retcon STOs Cooperative to include them. The Collective still exists and was not altered by the events of Picard S2.
You do realise that you're coming across as an irrational troll by this point, yeah?
Finding humor in a post complimenting the acting talent of someone whom I am of the opinion has absolutely zero acting talent is not trolling nor irrational. You are more than welcome to disagree and if you enjoy Will Wheaton's and his work, good for you! I am happy for you.
Can you and @baddmoonrizin get a room and settle your differences, it's kind of interupting the flow of this thread.
You do realise that you're coming across as an irrational troll by this point, yeah?
Finding humor in a post complimenting the acting talent of someone whom I am of the opinion has absolutely zero acting talent is not trolling nor irrational. You are more than welcome to disagree and if you enjoy Will Wheaton's and his work, good for you! I am happy for you.
No, but posting pretty much the same comment in every thread which even slightly mentions him is.
Hell S2 added a number of Borg incongruities already.
Not really, it did introduce a new Borg faction but it would be easy to either explain their absence in Delta Rising or retcon STOs Cooperative to include them. The Collective still exists and was not altered by the events of Picard S2.
Just like how Picard's season 1 Romulan Free State doesn't contradict anything in STO, it's just same Romulan Star Empire under a different name and a slightly different paint job (Red instead of Green).
You do realise that you're coming across as an irrational troll by this point, yeah?
Finding humor in a post complimenting the acting talent of someone whom I am of the opinion has absolutely zero acting talent is not trolling nor irrational. You are more than welcome to disagree and if you enjoy Will Wheaton's and his work, good for you! I am happy for you.
Can you and @baddmoonrizin get a room and settle your differences, it's kind of interupting the flow of this thread.
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Unlikely to get Terran faction since most people don't like playing villains.
IDK Romulans, Klingons, Borg and DS9's Spoonhead Lizard Space Germans all seem very popular villains among Trekkies.
Yes, but seeing a villain in a movie or tv show is one thing. Playing as one and carrying out villainous actions yourself is something different.
Cardassians are generally perceived as being well-written, nuanced and deep characters by those who like them.
The Klingon culture is appreciated for its strength, courage and their people being prepared to do what must be done.
Romulans for their plotting and scheming (and probably their ale).
The Borg for being... Overwhelming I guess?
They're interesting antagonists - also because most of them aren't evil just for the purpose of being evil, but because there were complex developments that influenced their cultures. Klingons became the way they are because of aliens invading their world. Cardassians because of ecological destruction. Romulans because they weren't Vulcans.
It's those things - but also (in most cases) their gradual 'redemption', their willingness to shed the most negative parts of their cultures and show a sort of 'character' development - that make them interesting.
But I'm not judging him now on how he was back then. I'm judging him now on what he's doing now.
Neither am I. They could give him the best written material ever put to page and he still could not act his way out of a wet paper bag.
Why are you so down on Garret Wang's acting (to be fair so was the VOY writing staff as why else was the character never promoted?)
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
You do realise that you're coming across as an irrational troll by this point, yeah?
Finding humor in a post complimenting the acting talent of someone whom I am of the opinion has absolutely zero acting talent is not trolling nor irrational. You are more than welcome to disagree and if you enjoy Will Wheaton's and his work, good for you! I am happy for you.
What makes you think I was complementing his acting ability? He is a bit of a one-trick pony (a lot of actors are) which is not something that I consider a particularly good thing for an actor, but it does not make him any worse (or better) than other relatively narrow-range actors. It does not help his popularity that his nich tends towards annoying characters, but the industry literally needs all kinds of characters.
What I did was point out that the type he does do well at is one that is quite workable for the villain in this season's arc.
As for the Borg, PIC didn't change anything that would invalidate the Borg in STO though, depending on how CBS handles them in the future, it might conflict with the Borg Cooperative in Voyager.
Personally, I think Jurati kept the new composite queen away from things that would cause too much paradox, which would mean everything except the beam eruption incident would be the same anyway, which gives STO enough wiggle room to treat the Delta Cooperative and the new Federation-based Cooperative as essentially the same.
In fact, they could be the ones building the fugly but powerful Borg dreadnaughts the Alliance has been fielding in the game lately. Caution would justify the lack of integration between them and Starfleet in the years between PIC and STO, with the extreme stress of the Iconian war being the catalyst that finally overcomes the distrust and unites them against a common enemy, leading to accepting some Borg into Starfleet and other Alliance forces as seen in the game.
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I'm assuming by political reasons we're talking more about going off the rails crazy talk sort of thing than actual political affiliation or voting a certain way. At least I hope this is the case, as if it isn't thats getting into potentially dangerous and unethical territory for alot of reasons. Not the least of which is that california is one of two states in the US where political affiliation is explicitly protected under state anti discrimination civil rights laws, so you really don't want to put yourself in a situation where it remotely looks like you're showing bias against a hire, or anyone else for that matter because of their politics. So if we're talking about an oil-water situation its probably best not to reach out at all, lest somebody say or do the wrong thing and give anybody a reason to start trouble for everyone involved. Not that anybody should be discussing politics in such a situation anyway, especially where something like VO is involved. You show up, do the VO work and leave
and therein lies the problem. Its a big sticking point as the reason many people buy alot of the ships that they do isn't even just for the ships themselves but the consoles or unique weapons a particular ship might have. Hell its the only reason most people even still buy T5 ships at all, let alone T6's. So really there are only three practical ways to deal with that issue: leave it as is, nerf them and make the people that bought those ships displeased or leave them as they are and enable some of the consoles to be obtained in another manner, like the phoenix store, lobi store or mudds store. I'm not sure about the practicality of the last option as things tend to be so overpriced there that it would be cheaper to just buy the ship normally. Plus its more for things you can't get any other way
While i'd like to see them back, i'm not so sure thats a good idea. Thats a long time to go without new content and advancing the story, only to get something we've already done. At this point they've been gone so long i'm not even sure there is any point to bringing them back. Especially if doing so involves holding back other things
....Then it wouldn't really be a terran faction by definition. Terrans don't really operate that way
The funny thing is I can actually see that kind of working, other than the whole he isn't human thing. Kind of reminds me of how putins grandfather was stalins personal chef. Though they'd have to include some hilarious cutscene where neelix poisons the previous emperor, only to reveal it wasn't poisoned at all and he's just so awful at cooking in that universe that his leola root stew kills anyone who eats it through sheer taste alone. Maybe have the whole storyline be good neelix trying to reform evil neelix and make him a competent cook, only to hire him after the player defeats him.....leading to a scene at the victory party held in the mess hall on voyager where tuvok walks in to get something to eat, sees two neelix's working in the kitchen, gives a hell no expression and quietly leaves......or thats his breaking point and he finally strangles what he thought was terran neelix only to find out it was the wrong one...leading to everyone in the room turning around and clapping and raising toasts.....only to have tuvok suddenly wake up and realize the entire mission was a dream
Indeed. The golden rule for those sorts of situations is the assumption that if it can be abused it will be abused and to consider the ways a given system could be abused and how you'd do it before even considering implementing it. That isn't to say you'll ever be able to prevent it 100% of the time but you should do whatever you can to minimize the possibilities of abuse whenever you can
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Will he still take flak for how Wesley was written in TNG? Probably. But I'm not judging him now on how he was back then. I'm judging him now on what he's doing now.
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He actually does villains and not-quite-villain antagonists rather well. While he is not believable as the traditional hard-as-nails power-villain type, he can do a great creepy and annoying vibe that plotter-type villains (and obstructionist antagonists like the "overbearing-jerk boss" type) have which sets him up well for the deadly-serious version of "evil nerd" trope parts.
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Like Lex Luthor?, That nerd turned to villainy because of his baldness, also stole 40 cakes and suffers from Kryptonite induced Cancer, and... yes Kryptonite is just as deadly on Humans as it is on Kryptonians, it just affects humans at a much slower rate.
IDK Romulans, Klingons, Borg and DS9's Spoonhead Lizard Space Germans all seem very popular villains among Trekkies.
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Not really, it did introduce a new Borg faction but it would be easy to either explain their absence in Delta Rising or retcon STOs Cooperative to include them. The Collective still exists and was not altered by the events of Picard S2.
You do realise that you're coming across as an irrational troll by this point, yeah?
Can you and @baddmoonrizin get a room and settle your differences, it's kind of interupting the flow of this thread.
No, but posting pretty much the same comment in every thread which even slightly mentions him is.
Just like how Picard's season 1 Romulan Free State doesn't contradict anything in STO, it's just same Romulan Star Empire under a different name and a slightly different paint job (Red instead of Green).
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Yes, but seeing a villain in a movie or tv show is one thing. Playing as one and carrying out villainous actions yourself is something different.
Cardassians are generally perceived as being well-written, nuanced and deep characters by those who like them.
The Klingon culture is appreciated for its strength, courage and their people being prepared to do what must be done.
Romulans for their plotting and scheming (and probably their ale).
The Borg for being... Overwhelming I guess?
They're interesting antagonists - also because most of them aren't evil just for the purpose of being evil, but because there were complex developments that influenced their cultures. Klingons became the way they are because of aliens invading their world. Cardassians because of ecological destruction. Romulans because they weren't Vulcans.
It's those things - but also (in most cases) their gradual 'redemption', their willingness to shed the most negative parts of their cultures and show a sort of 'character' development - that make them interesting.
And good story telling devices.
Why are you so down on Garret Wang's acting (to be fair so was the VOY writing staff as why else was the character never promoted?)
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
What makes you think I was complementing his acting ability? He is a bit of a one-trick pony (a lot of actors are) which is not something that I consider a particularly good thing for an actor, but it does not make him any worse (or better) than other relatively narrow-range actors. It does not help his popularity that his nich tends towards annoying characters, but the industry literally needs all kinds of characters.
What I did was point out that the type he does do well at is one that is quite workable for the villain in this season's arc.
As for the Borg, PIC didn't change anything that would invalidate the Borg in STO though, depending on how CBS handles them in the future, it might conflict with the Borg Cooperative in Voyager.
In fact, they could be the ones building the fugly but powerful Borg dreadnaughts the Alliance has been fielding in the game lately. Caution would justify the lack of integration between them and Starfleet in the years between PIC and STO, with the extreme stress of the Iconian war being the catalyst that finally overcomes the distrust and unites them against a common enemy, leading to accepting some Borg into Starfleet and other Alliance forces as seen in the game.