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bjorjlen
Member Posts: 132 Arc User
First off I wanted to thank everyone who posted replies and gave info & advice in my thread "Best Carrier Starships...". I learned a lot from you all and you all rock. 
However, being the ever curious old man that I am, I now have some questions about Science Starships and EPG Science builds as well. I have never dived into them before, but having seen them being played in game I am impressed by them big time. They seem quite fun and powerful to play, and I would like to know more about them, in the hopes that maybe I can make one myself. As such I have some general and specific questions in regards to them, starting with...
1) What would you all consider to be the "best" Science Starships in the game? Like the top 3 or 5 of them. I do know that pure science ships have a secondary deflector, a universal console slot, and focus more on Science Bridge Officer abilities and Starship powers that deal EPG damage or control/debuff. However there are so many in the game, and most of them Federation to boot, that it is a bit difficult for me to sift threw which are generally the best out of the lot.
2) Next, as I really like damage builds the most, and even one's that cause chaos many times amongst the enemies, I was wondering what EPG and Console abilities are generally the best. For example, I have seen (and have used) Gravity Well many times, and I like it a lot, but I have also seen such powers as Plasma Storm (which looks so epic in my mind lol) and to a lesser extent, Subspace Vortex in play before. But are there other abilities/powers that are similar in a visible "epic" sense, and deal great damage as well?
So yeah, those are a couple of my questions I have atm (I am sure I am forgetting some though). Personally if/when I create my own Science style Ship/Build (maybe), I would want it to have as much of the following as possible...
* A 2nd Deflector...
* 2 Science Boff's, including a Universal or two Boff as well...
* A Experimental Slot...
* The highest Hull rating possible...
* A great turn rate and possibly flight speed...
* 1 or 2 Hangar bays, as I still love my pets lol...
* Plasma Storm, Gravity Well, Subspace Vortex, and similar epic looking & damage dealing abilities/powers...
* A non-Federation Starship if possible (as I tend to like using the more "unique" looking ships), though some of them look great too...
* As much recharge ability so as to be able to use the above EPG powers as often as possible...
So, with those criteria are there any Starships and EPG Builds that would fit the bill so to speak (or at least come close to)? I know it might be asking a lot, especially from someone who doesn't know squat about Science Starships/Builds, but as my Father used to say "A closed mouth doesn't get fed", so I figured I would ask and write up my "wish list" as it were and ask you all what you think. Any and all assistance would be great, and as always...
Peace...
However, being the ever curious old man that I am, I now have some questions about Science Starships and EPG Science builds as well. I have never dived into them before, but having seen them being played in game I am impressed by them big time. They seem quite fun and powerful to play, and I would like to know more about them, in the hopes that maybe I can make one myself. As such I have some general and specific questions in regards to them, starting with...1) What would you all consider to be the "best" Science Starships in the game? Like the top 3 or 5 of them. I do know that pure science ships have a secondary deflector, a universal console slot, and focus more on Science Bridge Officer abilities and Starship powers that deal EPG damage or control/debuff. However there are so many in the game, and most of them Federation to boot, that it is a bit difficult for me to sift threw which are generally the best out of the lot.
2) Next, as I really like damage builds the most, and even one's that cause chaos many times amongst the enemies, I was wondering what EPG and Console abilities are generally the best. For example, I have seen (and have used) Gravity Well many times, and I like it a lot, but I have also seen such powers as Plasma Storm (which looks so epic in my mind lol) and to a lesser extent, Subspace Vortex in play before. But are there other abilities/powers that are similar in a visible "epic" sense, and deal great damage as well?
So yeah, those are a couple of my questions I have atm (I am sure I am forgetting some though). Personally if/when I create my own Science style Ship/Build (maybe), I would want it to have as much of the following as possible...
* A 2nd Deflector...
* 2 Science Boff's, including a Universal or two Boff as well...
* A Experimental Slot...
* The highest Hull rating possible...
* A great turn rate and possibly flight speed...
* 1 or 2 Hangar bays, as I still love my pets lol...
* Plasma Storm, Gravity Well, Subspace Vortex, and similar epic looking & damage dealing abilities/powers...
* A non-Federation Starship if possible (as I tend to like using the more "unique" looking ships), though some of them look great too...
* As much recharge ability so as to be able to use the above EPG powers as often as possible...
So, with those criteria are there any Starships and EPG Builds that would fit the bill so to speak (or at least come close to)? I know it might be asking a lot, especially from someone who doesn't know squat about Science Starships/Builds, but as my Father used to say "A closed mouth doesn't get fed", so I figured I would ask and write up my "wish list" as it were and ask you all what you think. Any and all assistance would be great, and as always...
Peace...
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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And of course we have the Vesta variants and the Titan Science Destroyer.
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Eternal_Temporal_Multi-Mission_Science_Vessel
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Nautilus_Temporal_Science_Vessel
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Titan_Science_Destroyer
Vesta variants:
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Palatine_Multi-Mission_Reconnaissance_Explorer
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Esquiline_Multi-Mission_Strategic_Explorer
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Brigid_Multi-Mission_Surveillance_Explorer
I will note that the Vesta variants and the Temporal Multi Mission also have a hanger.
Out of the lockbox, one of my favorites is actually the Crossfield. She's got more firepower, and a pretty well balanced set up in my opinion.
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Crossfield_Science_Spearhead
Overall though... best is subjective based on what your playstyle is and what you want to do with her. I'll just leave this here for future research.
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Playable_starship
If you want non fed looking the best section would be cross-faction, however most of those are either lockbox, lobi, or event. Outside of that it would be the Temporal Multi Mission.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
To be fair though, that sixth slot is hardly required, so any ship with at least 5 slots will do - most Sci ships have at least that number and I'd say that 5 sci slots is optimal regarding the trade-off between maximising console slots and limiting the options available.
Personally I don't care about specialisation seatings at all, because there are enough Sci powers available to fill up even the ships with 8 or 9 Sci (and universal) boff seatings.
2)
Regarding visible, 'epic' things: the trait from the Somerville is a good one because it causes damage dealing mycelial shockwaves to appear from every anomaly that's active whenever you activate a Sci power (for example: activating Sci team or Hazard Emitters while there's an active Gravity well created by you, will trigger such a shockwave).
For cooldown reduction, you may want to get the Boilmer trait from the lobi store. It's expensive, but it's also the easiest way to drastically reduce your cooldowns.
Alternative ways are getting Krenim Bridge officers from a Fleet that has a completed research lab, the All hands on Deck trait from the Presidio (and its Romulan and Klingon counterparts) or the trait of the Vonph. I'd say that those are, together, even more expensive though.
Lastly,
An helpful list of ships, organised by sci consoles can be found here:
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_starships_by_Science_console_slots
Vesta!
(I had to say this.)
I only have the T5s myself. After I get the 12th Anniversary Bundle I'm planning on going for the Legendary.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
The Verne Temporal Science Vessel is certainly a one of the top choices.
Two science ships I'm using are the Eternal Temporal Multi-Mission Science Vessel and Lukari Dranuur Scout Ship. For me the Eternal has been a good platform (and good value) over the years. Having a Temporal seat means more anomalies to play with.
Your Ba'ul Sentry Vessel is a science ship.
Just use Photonic Officer to reduce the cool down of your bridge officer abilities. It's free
This starship trait seems to be #1 for getting more damage out of anomalies Spore Infused Anomalies
This personal space trait (exchange) can reduce the cool down of clickies (universal consoles) Unconventional Systems
I use the starship mastery trait off the Gagarin Miracle Worker Battlecruiser along with the 3 piece storyline Morphogenic Armaments set to get lots of torpedo spreads out along with the set's stacking buff. It might sound odd but using BFAW and CSV for torpedo spreads works great. Possible synergy here for a mixed build with your Ba'ul or other ships ?
Pet and energy weapon damage will usually be pretty small compared to exotic damage and proc-ing the secondary deflector.
Theory crafting can be a lot of fun but getting started in-game is actually pretty easy without any fancy stuff.
Large gravity well -> Exotic (i.e. Gravimetric) torp spread -> more science abuse and proc-ing the secdef -> most bad guys won't be around
On the League link above click on the ship named Boomerang to zoom in. I'm finding that particular weapons setup works very nicely for me and is easy on the pocket book.
Front:
Dsc Reputation - Lorca's Ambition dual beam bank with console for 2 piece bonus.
Dyson Reputation - Protonic Arsenal Gravimetric Torpedo
Crafted (exchange) - Particle Emission Plasma Torpedo Launcher
Rear:
Story line - Morphogenic Armaments Torpedo and weapon with console slotted for 3 pc set bonus (needs Gagarin trait to work)
Reputation - Dyson Proton weapon for 2 pc bonus with the Gravimetric torpedo
Other easy to get items that work well from story line rewards...
Bajor Defense Deflector Array (re-engineer for Control X and EPG)
Temporally Shielded Datacore
Temporal Disentanglement Suite Console
Chronometric Capacitor
It can get boring. I've actually replaced my torpedoes with regular phasers and removed Spore infused anomalies from my main's Vesta - because I simply
- didn't see my ship enough and
- preferred to see it firing beam weapons instead of torpedoes that sometimes seem to appear out of thin air (or, technically, a vacuum
In my opinion, energy weapons are visually more pleasing to look at. But that's very subjective of course.
Mixed builds on the right ship can be a lot of fun. Mixing things up helps to keep things fresh. Something with a 4/3 weapons layout works for me i.e. Fek'Ihri Gok'tad Carrier
Having done some more research into the matter, I can say that creating a viable EPG build is quite the involved process, and one that might just take a bit of time for me to do (at least fully), but one that I am actually undertaking. I have copied a lot of your info down, and even have written down a ton of notes from things like YouTube in the hopes of figuring out a build to use that is both interesting, fun, and effective. And besides the Ba'ul Sentry Vessel, I am also looking at using the other ships I have for a EPG build, some of which are not Science Ships at all.
For instance, using the Jem'Hadar Vanguard Carrier for a pseudo EPG build sounds very interesting to me. It is such a effective powerful ship on it's own, with its many pets, that backing them up with a mix of a EPG and straight Torpedo's might not only be cool as heck, but also even more of a killer than it already is. And so far, out of all my ships, the Vanguard is the one that is able to survive nearly everything the Kobayashi Maru event has to offer (some of my other ships sorta... die once during it if I am unlucky lol), so here is my tentative plan atm.
Last night I got the Maquis Raider for the Universal Console - Plasma Storm Module (which I love the look of), and combining that with abilities/powers such as Gravity Well, Hazard Emitters, Tachyon Beam, and the like, along with things that reduce the cooldown time of all of them (such as Photonic Officer, and Unconventional Systems - IF I can get that one), and Torpedo's that Proc damage (such as the Dark Matter Torp & Gravimetric Photon Torp for example), along with the seven pets the Vanguard has, should make for a rather cool TRIBBLE powerful build & little ship. 😁
My only question though is in regards to the Deteriorating Secondary Deflector. Is it really needed with EPG builds generally speaking (only), or is it mostly for "pure" EPG builds, as from what I can see, it only has any real benefit and effect on abilities/powers such as Tachyon Beam, Tyken's Rift, and the like, and not on ones such as Gravity Well and Plasma Storm. As my first EPG build might not be a "pure" one (for now), can I do without one and still make for a effective EPG pseudo ship build using the Vanguard Carrier?
I ask because I certainly don't want to gimp myself at all, or even too much really if it happens. With all of my other Starships I tend to use beam weapons and Beam Overload, and just broadside the enemies into oblivion. As such it can get a little "boring" and be a bit of a "one trick pony" for me too, which is why I asked about Torpedo Builds in my other post; to just do and have something different to play with. And with this mix of Torp/EPG/Carrier type build, using the Vanguard ship, it might be different enough to be quite interesting and fun to play.
So I am wondering what you all think of my idea in this regards? Is it viable? Can it make for a effective powerful ship? Heck, has it been done before even? In either case, I should let you all go for now... I wouldn't want you all to read a book after all (too late! lol Sorry about that). Please let me know what you think, and if you have any more suggestions or thoughts on the matter, as I find all your info & replies to be very, very informative.
Peace...
P.S: Btw @protoneous, what do you mean when you said "On the League link above click on the ship named Boomerang to zoom in. I'm finding that particular weapons setup works very nicely for me and is easy on the pocket book."? What League link exactly? I ask, because I don't see anything like that here at all.
For science ships triggering the secondary deflector is really worthwhile as it's a huge source of damage. Secdefs do scale with their mark so upgrading them helps. Science ships have secdefs because they're not really ideal platforms for energy damage.
The link from my previous post shows one possible setup that works great for me with respect to the weapons loadout (there's lots of options to fill console slots)..
Using a couple of exotic damage torpedo's just seems to blend so nicely with the rest of things on a science ship. I think Sci-torp builds are definitely worth checking out and there's a lot of synergies there as compared to trying to do energy damage with a science ship.
One example of a synergy is not needing any weapons power. The front dual beam bank is just there for it's set bonus.
Another example would be the science heavy skill tree that's set up to buff exotic damage boff abilities also buffs the two front torpedo's damage so another win-win there.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Absolutely. The weapons sets depicted above are 100% reputation and mission reward gear with one crafted torpedo which is why I suggested "they're easy on the pocketbook". There's lots of alternative storyline gear suggestions in the post above that one.
As a player who FINALLY got a few Lobi consoles via event rewards earlier this year after playing for over a decade I'm a big believer in doing things as cheaply as possible.
Here's a photo of one of my own ships.
100% mission, event reward, reputation, crafted, and fleet stuff with only two exchange purchases (the Delphic Tear Generator & Constriction Anchor)
Am going to try and scrape together a couple million EC for some damage clickies one of these days but for now it seems to work pretty well even as a budget build without all the "fancy" stuff.
A nice quote from another one of the League Links
In addition, I have also heard in game that there is a trait, skill, or item that can allow one to have multiple Gravity Wells appear at the same time with just one application of the power. Likewise with Plasma Storm above, would anyone know what might be by chance? If I could get both, I think that would rock! You know, having 5 Plasma Storms & Gravity Wells all appearing at once to wreck havoc on your enemies (as well as our eyes too lol). Though come to think of it, if people could do that, I am sure most would do it already with their EPG builds.
Anywho, please let me know if anyone has a clue what can do these things.
Peace...
A single very rare Gravimetric Scientist - Gravity Well variant slotted on active duty (space) should do the trick for multiple aftershock Gravity Wells.
If you'd like to extend the duration of your Gravity Well try the trait Improved Gravity Well.
As far as I know you only get one Plasma Storm but Unconventional Systems can cool it and other damage clickies down for use more often.
Peace...
I think it's worth pointing out that no Science vessel comes with ...as that's a feature for an Escort/Raider.
Saying that, some transforming vessels such as the Titan Science Destroyer does have one. However, it's only activated when the vessel is in Tactical mode, which disables a lot of its' Science abilities and turns the ship into something more akin to an Escort.
The one science character I play uses Tetryon weapons, including the set from the mission "Butterfly". I have stumbled upon a reasonably good build based on the Scryer Intel ship, but I must admit that due to my preferred Tactical-oriented playstyle, I'm flying it more like an Escort than a Science ship and likely I am missing out on a lot of the power that Science ships have.
It is a bit ungainly (not as bad as the D'Deridex though) but with its 5/3 weapons layout it can pack a punch with sci-torps and it's trait enhances both exotic damage and torpedo damage.
in addition to the ship you are building 2 must haves are the Glenn (crossfield variant) for Temporal anchor (additional radiation damage) and more importantly, one of theses pilot escorts
Chimesh Andorian Pilot Escort [T6]
Nemosin Lethean Pilot Escort [T6]
Ikkabar Dewan Pilot Escort [T6]
for the improved Gravity Well trait. is essentially allows you 100% up time on GW. also you should try to get Subspace Vortex, Preferably level 3. some like overload cascade but it can push targets out of the well. I believe Anne is playing with Very Cold In Space, which is another damage type. I do not think it scales with EPG. I uses structural analysis I believe it procs the secondary deflector. also tachyon beam will proc it. Do you need a Deteriorating? it's subject to discussion and is covered in Wey's guide.
the first 2 weapons you need are the gravimetric torpedo in a TS spread you are going to generate lots of gravimetric rifts and is a big DPS bump. the second is the Particle Emission Plasma Torpedo. it created clouds which scale in damage with EPG and is moar DPS. if you can, slot TS3 AND TS2. in an intrepid you can only do TS2 x2 but it's more than enough.
I like the Chronometric Calculations Set 3 pc, the beam, the omni and the tac console
Set 2: Cyclical Auxiliary Circuits
+3.6 Auxiliary Power Setting
+3.8 Auxiliary Power Setting (Bonus Increase at low power)
Set 3: Chronometric Energy Converter icon (Federation).png Chronometric Energy Converter
Targets Self
2 min Recharge
to Self +8% Exotic Damage for 15 Seconds (scales with weapons power: +32.5% at 125)
to Self +8% Energy Weapon Damage for 15 Seconds (scales with auxiliary power: +32.5% at 125)
I also like the Delta alliance ordinance set, Neutronic torpedo, Bioneural gel pack and Advanced Thoron Infused Beam Arraythe weapons are ok, you really won't have any power to energy weapons anyway, but it give you the Isokinetic Cannon, and it can be devastating.
On Anne's ship above, she is running the mo'kai 2 pc and i think the Temporal 2 pc. I use the Bajoran deflector, you can reenigneer it for the most boosts, i believe. I run the Mo'kai WC because of the EPG boost but you want the 2 pc temporal Defense Initiative Starship Technologies for the 25% additional damage from DOTs
Morphogenic Armaments can be a good storyline reward set for a sci-torp when using Entwined Tactical Matrices. Cycling BFAW and CSV stacks CrtH & CrtD while giving a torpedo spread from each. It also reduces the recharge time of BFAW and CSV so all together is a nice 3 piece package. The torpedo and weapon just sit in the rear to provide the set bonus.
As I said earlier, when I have "fine-tuned" my ship enough, I was going to post the results here for all of you to see and possibly critique, and so without further adu, here it is (in picture form)...
Now I have tried my best to design this build using the great suggestions you have all given, limited by the funds I have of course, and while nowhere near perfect, I believe it is coming along very, very nicely. I have teamed with a couple of people in game, doing runs and all, and when I asked them how my ship did overall, they all said (generally speaking) that it was a beast.
In addition, I would love to get Spore Infused Anomalies, but atm there is no way I can afford it as it costs so much to get on the market.
Peace...
It looks very nice.
One thing that stands out a bit is the use so many engineering resist and science shield emitter amplifier consoles. It's a bit of a journey and all about finding a balance that works for you but given diminishing returns a single engineering resist console works can work almost as good as several.
For science consoles you might be able to drop a couple of the shield emitter amplifiers and use the space to increase Control Expertise for more pull on a Gravity Well.
On the LtC Science Intel bridge officer there's a bunch of Intel boff abilities to experiment with that can expand the fun you have with NPC's (offense) or even provide some more defense.
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Bridge_officer_and_kit_abilities
It is actually a blend @nixie50, between a Tank (Hull & Shield both), a EPG ship, a Torpedo build, and of course a Carrier. And while not being a "master" at any one of them, it is a "jack of all trades" so to speak. As one who is very used to playing Scrappers & Tanks in games, that has sorta "corrupted" my way of thinking and building things at times lol. I would make it more of a EPG build (with exotic particle generators), but as one can only get ability recharge rates down by only so much, I chose not to do that atm. And while certainly not unkillable (or perfect either as I said), my little ship can definitely take a pounding and keep on ticking.
Oh, and one more thing I forgot to mention... One of the things that sorta annoyed me a bit was doing Deep Space Encounters, and upon getting in it, there was some other players on better/more powerful ships, flying threw it killing everything before I could even get to them. Now however, with the build I have, more often than not it is me who kills everything before anyone else can and only the fastest players/ships now destroy things like before. And while I can appreciate the irony, sometimes I do feel bad about it in the end... at least until my next encounter lol...
Peace...
Peace...