as far as the "get good," etc. paragraph, i am not certain i understand your reply or how you want it to be understood. it confuses me.
again...agree to disagree.
Definition of agree to disagree
: to agree not to argue anymore about a difference of opinion
Okay. Let me be exceedingly clear, because I very much do not "agree to disagree" about this, because it actually is not a difference of opinion. It's a difference of you thinking that only your opinion is valid.
Regarding the "get good", etc.... both you and (in an earlier post) nixie have been harping on this "but you can't force people to play your way", etcetera, and SPECIFICALLY objected to the whole idea of encouraging people to actually learn the game and be self-sufficient.... by stating that toxic players have said so in insulting ways in the past... and thus implying that we're not allowed to think or say such things because they sometimes have lead to toxicity.
Meanwhile, we're saying those things in full sentences (or more, to the point that you are also insulting the length of our posts), in calm and collected ways.
where you are in error is that NO ONE helps out those who need it. Like Nixie, I have seen far too many Get Good, you suck, stop playing; and NEVER ONCE has anyone reached out after a TFO saying, hey, let me give you some constructive criticism. The simple fact is the toxic players are out there, EN MASS, and the tutors are non-existent. and before you say it, Yes those players can post on the forums, but I was playing for over a year before I even realized the forums were a source of learning.
as for the OP's concept, I seem to remember there are a few episodes/mission that break if you are teamed. maybe they have been fixed or removed?
Darkblade and I have both offered help, in this very thread, and we've both been smacked down because of past toxicity by others.
Yes, there are toxic players out there who spout insults as you're describing. But yes, sorry, there ARE players willing to help, too. But at some point, there needs to be personal responsibility by the rookies to realize that they need the help.
Do you expect us to be online 24/7 and spend our time doing nothing but badgering rookies asking them if they need help, since apparently people can't ask?
Agreed.
Both kind of players exist. Which is why it isn't surprising that some are saying they've only been bullied when struggling, while others claim that players should take more responsibility themselves and show a willingness to learn. Or even accept basic advice.
The truth is probably somewhere in-between those positions.
Years ago, I was playing the Borg ground missions a lot. I was always happy to provide advice or try and steer the team towards the objectives. Some showed a willingness to learn, many just flat-out ignored the chat completely while endlessly trying to figure out what to do. Or even worse, they'd tell me - in a very unfriendly way - to stop 'whining' about optionals and other objectives.
If a player is prepared to get better but only gets dumb replies like 'get good', that's wrong.
If a player doesn't want to get better and feels fine with letting others do the work, earn them their rewards and - simply put - not trying to contribute effectively themselves, that's also wrong.
Team missions with certain objectives put a responsibility on all members of the team. That means helping and teaching those who need it - and for the other ones to be receptive to these things to get the most out of the team, together.
Do you expect us to be online 24/7 and spend our time doing nothing but badgering rookies asking them if they need help, since apparently people can't ask?
Not at all, but do not try to take a moral high ground, when there is NO evidence that you DO reach out to new players who you see struggling in a tfo. and I'm ending my part of the hijack of the OP's thread. OP, nice idea, but far to hard to make happen where it's not a trolling tool/exploit tool.
Not at all, but do not try to take a moral high ground, when there is NO evidence that you DO reach out to new players who you see struggling in a tfo. and I'm ending my part of the hijack of the OP's thread. OP, nice idea, but far to hard to make happen where it's not a trolling tool/exploit tool.
If you're going to resort to that logic, there's no evidence you would actually answer the distress calls even though you may say you might either. No hijack is going on here save in the minds of certain people. Certain people have said this system would be a good tool and cited certain reasons. Folks like myself are saying that while the tool will function it's nothing more than a band-aid solution that doesn't address WHY people are getting stuck to start with. You're free to advocate for it just as myself and others are free to advocate against it. Simply because you're supporting said system doesn't grant you any kind of moral high ground either.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,572Community Moderator
Ok guys... I regret to inform you that, by request of the OP...
Comments
Agreed.
Both kind of players exist. Which is why it isn't surprising that some are saying they've only been bullied when struggling, while others claim that players should take more responsibility themselves and show a willingness to learn. Or even accept basic advice.
The truth is probably somewhere in-between those positions.
Years ago, I was playing the Borg ground missions a lot. I was always happy to provide advice or try and steer the team towards the objectives. Some showed a willingness to learn, many just flat-out ignored the chat completely while endlessly trying to figure out what to do. Or even worse, they'd tell me - in a very unfriendly way - to stop 'whining' about optionals and other objectives.
If a player is prepared to get better but only gets dumb replies like 'get good', that's wrong.
If a player doesn't want to get better and feels fine with letting others do the work, earn them their rewards and - simply put - not trying to contribute effectively themselves, that's also wrong.
Team missions with certain objectives put a responsibility on all members of the team. That means helping and teaching those who need it - and for the other ones to be receptive to these things to get the most out of the team, together.
Not at all, but do not try to take a moral high ground, when there is NO evidence that you DO reach out to new players who you see struggling in a tfo. and I'm ending my part of the hijack of the OP's thread. OP, nice idea, but far to hard to make happen where it's not a trolling tool/exploit tool.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
This thread is now closed.