to play devil's advocate here, but is a distress call really necessary? you have 2 devices and a captains power that brings in reinforcements, and if you are science, you have photonic fleet. that should be enough to get you through any Delta mission
whats wrong with having fun and/or asking for help as a general rule? nothing. there is also nothing wrong with this proposal, as it engages people to be more trek like and help out a fellow CPT in need. but given your reply, it seems fun is out of the question.
edited for removal of a statement and added sentence after.
If I am "condescending" in this instance it's because I'm tired of seeing certain arguments every single time myself or someone else dares suggest people do a little leg work or prep work on their own to overcome issues. I'm tired of seeing certain arguments every time someone complains about having issues and I dare suggest they need to alter their build and/or tactics. I'm tired of every time people complain about difficulties in game, it's always the game's fault and NEVER that they the player are at fault. I'm tired of every time people complain about issues and people like myself or others try to help them in good faith, they throw it back in our faces and call us every name under the sun. I'm tired of those people who complain about issues then try to hide behind the "i'm just trying to have fun" excuse as to why any advice given goes in one ear and out the other. I'm tired of people who have no desire to learn and improve coming on here, whining about the game and how hard of a time they're having, then wasting the time of other people who are actually trying to help them.
Sorry but truth hurts. Sometimes people need to hear that their build is objectively bad for what they're trying to do, because sometimes it is objectively bad. Sometimes people need to hear that their tactics are bad, because sometimes their tactics are objectively bad. Sometimes people need to be told they are not ready for certain content because they're not. If a team is going into an Infected Space Elite and all the team meets the minimum DPS requirement, but the 5th guy is only pulling 2k DPS and dying every other second, I'm sorry but that guy has no business in that queue as they're not ready for that content. One day they will be but that day isn't today. Being new, having a subpar build, or having bad tactics doesn't make one a bad player. What makes one a bad player is refusing to learn and get better and overcome those issues. When people refuse to learn and get better when by their own admissions they're having issues, it wastes their time and everyone else around them, including any TFO teams unfortunate enough to get grouped with those people.
I am not now nor have I ever been opposed to people having fun, so please don't try to put words in my mouth. Part of why we play games is to have fun. One can deal great damage and survive while still having fun. One can also have a respectable amount of output that contributes to team runs while still having fun. The concepts aren't mutually exclusive. I'm all for folks having fun so long as that fun isn't at the expense of other people. Prime example is the one I gave above of the ISE and guy doing only 2k DPS. Dude isn't contributing anything to that run and is hindering his team. Finally I am not opposed to people helping other folks in this game. So long as people are willing to learn and get better and the person offering the help is genuine, it's something I'm glad to see.
What I am telling you is that while I am not opposed to this proposal on principle, I'm opposed to it because of how easy it would be to abuse, and because it doesn't address WHY those people are dying over and over to start with. This proposal is the equivalent of handing the controller over to an older sibling and asking them to beat the fight for you. Will it get you through the level in that particular instance, sure it will. But what happens if they need to play that level again and the older sibling isn't around? The older sibling isn't always going to be around to help and at some point the younger sibling is going to have to stand on their own two feet.
Lastly there is a very big thing I'm surprised none has brought up. What happens if someone goes to answer said distress call of another player, but that person can't beat it either? What happens then? Does another distress call go out? What do you do then? Ultimately this proposal would be nothing but a band-aid that never addresses the root problem of the issues to start with.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
If I am "condescending" in this instance it's because I'm tired of seeing certain arguments every single time myself or someone else dares suggest people do a little leg work or prep work on their own to overcome issues. I'm tired of seeing certain arguments every time someone complains about having issues and I dare suggest they need to alter their build and/or tactics.
Sorry but truth hurts. Sometimes people need to hear that their build is objectively bad for what they're trying to do, because sometimes it is objectively bad. Sometimes people need to hear that their tactics are bad, because sometimes their tactics are objectively bad. Sometimes people need to be told they are not ready for certain content because they're not.
What you say is fair enough BUT, the WAY it it is said is FAR more important. when I tried to do TFOs, and the very few times I thought I was ready for advanced, I never got some one saying, Hey, lets talk about your build/tactics/whatever. what I got was "you suck stop playing this game" "Git Gud" and don't try to tell me that doesn't happen, it does, more often than not, and I have sent screenshots to GMs and customer service over it. Thankfully a certain fleet that is no longer in the game was a large part of it but some of those "L33t" players are still out there, like some cancer waiting to strike. I like the OPs idea but it's going to talke far too many resources to implement, and any sort of reward would be exploited, and the whole mechanic could be used to do nothing but troll less capable players.
I see it as too problematic. to give a reward to the rescuer would be far to easy to exploit, and TBH, I don't think there are that many good Samaritans who would do it gratis
another wall of text. if you feel so much against it, then dont answer the calls. stop belittling other players just because you have a grip on the game and they might not.
you can always iggy bin anyone who doesnt match your standards.
The part in bold right there is your problem. As you've done plenty of times before you're jumping to conclusions by assuming that criticism of one's build or tactics automatically means they're trying to belittle a person. Or in this case criticizing the idea. You need to understand that just because someone criticizes something it doesn't automatically mean they're belittling something or hate the person. In this instance I am criticizing the idea because it doesn't address WHY those people got into a situation to need something like this to start with. You ever hear the old saying "give a man a fish you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish you feed him for a lifetime"?
This idea is the equivalent of giving a man a fish. Sure this may help that person get past a particular encounter they've having issues with in that moment. At the same time it doesn't address WHY they found it difficult to start with. All you've done is skipped our person ahead without addressing why they needed to be skipped ahead to start with. When you step back and give people resources to know what everything does, such as a STO equivalent of a dungeon journal, that also explains some basic concepts, you give them the knowledge they can use to figure out things for themselves and in turn you get better players. Thus by addressing WHY they got stuck to start with, you've taught the person to fish and fed them for the lifetime of their STO career. To reiterate the point I am NOT, I repeat am NOT OPPOSED TO HELPING PEOPLE WHO NEED IT. I am opposed to band-aid solutions that don't address the actual problem.
As another already pointed out, putting people on the ignore list doesn't keep me from being grouped with them. As said above it has nothing to do with my standards, but everything to do with addressing the actual problem instead of applying band aid solutions.
as for the rebuttal after that...there have been many threads/posts about those TFO peeps that are less than stellar, afk, and more. its also been impressed that many just move on and dont care about them since the time frame is somewhere from 13 seconds to 3 mins, based on replies from players (aside from getting rewards for being afk).
but this is about distress calls for missions, not TFOs. so you could iggy them and not see them asking for assistance.
Regardless of whether it's a single player mission or a TFO, people should have the basic performance to get through the content in a reasonable timeframe and not take 20 years to get one mission completed or die every 5 seconds. If it's team based content again they shouldn't be dying every 5 seconds and should have enough basic performance to contribute to their team. It doesn't have to be top 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the game, but if a TFO requires a minimum of 20k from everyone on the team, they should at least be able to pull that 20k.
Lastly in regards to rewards, if the goal is to help people out, you send the wrong message by offering a reward for it. Because what's going to happen is people are going to hop in, grab the rewards, then bounce. Then you're right back to square one of that person still being stuck. I've seen it plenty of times. All of this also assumes of course the person using the feature actually WANTS help and isn't just looking for someone to beat the mission for them. Point being however if you truly want to help people as you seem to indicate you want to do, then you will be far more effective by addressing WHY they would need a system like this to start with, vs applying the system as a band-aid solution.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
and yet another wall of text to prove what? that you dislike the idea. we get it mate. we are not talking TFOs, so why do you keep bringing them up? this is a game mechanic desired to assist CPTs in times of need, outside of TFOs. yes i read your details, but it has nothing to do with the requested option the OP is discussing.
sorry, but my problem is not what you say it is. that is your interpretation. i have already agreed that wests' post and yours, albeit condescending, are not off the mark. but you do approach it as belittling players since they dont play the game the way you do.
on one hand you express dislike for players who cant take time to learn and then express a tiny bit of empathy for people who need help, and say so in caps.
At this point I would step back and agree to disagree, this will be an exception to that. I'm not letting you twist what I said, because once again you're trying to put words in my mouth.
First up I find it funny that you try to bash me for a "wall of text" then you post one of your own by that same logic. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, single player missions, patrols, and TFOs all operate using the same mechanics and principles and invariably are linked. the only difference is in the scale various mechanics take place. If a player is having issues in normal mode episode missions they're going to have those same issues in TFOs and team based content. It's like having issues playing a guitar on your own but suddenly trying to join a band expecting that magically your issues will disappear. What I said has everything to do with what is being requested. I know full well the OP intends this to be a help to people. What I am telling you is that it's not the right kind of help. It's a band-aid solution doesn't actually address the problem. Much like putting a bucket under a leak in your roof stops the floor from getting wet, but doesn't fix the leak.
Second, get this through your head, it has NOTHING to do with folks not playing the way I do, but everything to do with actually addressing the issue of why they would need to utilize a system like this to start with. Dying should be uncommon to rare for people in this game, especially on normal mode anything. If someone is dying so much that they need a system like this, then they have some serious issues that need to be addressed. Unless the person has ran into a bug or has internet issues, dying over and over again on normal modes is 100% something they're doing/not doing. Meaning they have issues with their tactics or build, sometimes both. That doesn't make them a bad player, it means what they're doing isn't working and they need to change something.
As for your line I highlighted in bold, that is NOT what I said and I will thank you to stop trying to put words in my mouth. Quote the exact line you believe I said that. What I actually said was I have no problems helping those who need it that actually want the help. What I won't do is waste my time on the lazy who refuse to learn and get better. There is a HUGE difference between someone who wants to learn but is having a hard time grasping things, and someone who just flat out refuses to learn. The first group are people who want to improve and are trying, which I will work with as long as they need it and I'm able. The second group I have no time for because no amount of help I could give will change a thing for them.
i dont see the tldr explanations you offer as anything but a view of mistrust in other players to learn the game.
as far as the fish analogy...way off mate. not how i see it, but i can see thats how you do. again, if this idea is so off the mark for you, dont do it. myself...i think this would be fun to do. regardless of player level of knowledge. i get to help a fellow CPT in need, and it cost me what? maybe 20 mins max of my time? probably less.
as you probably do, i play a cpl other games, and in these games, people are happy to help out, no questions asked, not have i once come across anyone presenting the way you do. ive never in the other games seen anyone say, "get good," "learn to play." its been more of "sure man, let me help you out, what do you need help with?" and at times they have offered tips, to which i take hold of and learn from. maybe its a STO thing...dunno. I dont play too many other games anymore. my reflexes are not what they used to be, so i find solace in enjoying the game.
If I display a "mistrust in other players to learn the game" did you stop to consider that maybe it's because I've been given reason to mistrust? Plenty of times I've seen people posting here on the forums talking about issues with the game, yet when folks offer help such as build changes or tactics changes, it gets thrown back in our face and they double down on blaming the game. Prime examples being the threads that come around every time Red Alert events are going on where folks complain about "DPSers killing things before I can even load in or get to a target" and wanting everyone nerfed. I've also PMed people plenty of times after TFOs when I've noticed they've had an issue staying alive and said "i noticed you seemed to have a hard time in that TFO right then, is there anything I can help you out with" only for them to throw it back in my face and call me everything but a milk cow. Just like you say you have issues with folks saying "git good", you should also have issues with people calling folks an elitist because they dared offer to help. It goes both ways.
If you enjoy helping other people and are able to get them help they need to improve, then good on you, keep doing that. The issue has never been whether any of us having issues helping folks. The issue is whether this system offers the right kind of help to address an issue.
As to the fish analogy, are you really suggesting that it's better to let people keep struggling instead of addressing why they're struggling to start with? I'll give you credit, that one actually made me sit back in my chair and do a double take. You're free to think this distress call thing is a good idea, and for that matter I'm not opposed to it in principle. If folks want to help others out in a manor like this by all means. The difference between the two of us in this instance is I would rather cure the disease vs just treating the symptoms. Giving people a resource such as a dungeon journal where they can learn different basic concepts is alot less work intensive than something like this system would ever be and is much more likely to happen than a system like this.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
and yet another wall of text to prove what? that you dislike the idea. we get it mate. we are not talking TFOs, so why do you keep bringing them up? this is a game mechanic desired to assist CPTs in times of need, outside of TFOs. yes i read your details, but it has nothing to do with the requested option the OP is discussing.
sorry, but my problem is not what you say it is. that is your interpretation. i have already agreed that wests' post and yours, albeit condescending, are not off the mark. but you do approach it as belittling players since they dont play the game the way you do.
on one hand you express dislike for players who cant take time to learn and then express a tiny bit of empathy for people who need help, and say so in caps.
At this point I would step back and agree to disagree, this will be an exception to that. I'm not letting you twist what I said, because once again you're trying to put words in my mouth.
First up I find it funny that you try to bash me for a "wall of text" then you post one of your own by that same logic. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, single player missions, patrols, and TFOs all operate using the same mechanics and principles and invariably are linked. the only difference is in the scale various mechanics take place. If a player is having issues in normal mode episode missions they're going to have those same issues in TFOs and team based content. It's like having issues playing a guitar on your own but suddenly trying to join a band expecting that magically your issues will disappear. What I said has everything to do with what is being requested. I know full well the OP intends this to be a help to people. What I am telling you is that it's not the right kind of help. It's a band-aid solution doesn't actually address the problem. Much like putting a bucket under a leak in your roof stops the floor from getting wet, but doesn't fix the leak.
Second, get this through your head, it has NOTHING to do with folks not playing the way I do, but everything to do with actually addressing the issue of why they would need to utilize a system like this to start with. Dying should be uncommon to rare for people in this game, especially on normal mode anything. If someone is dying so much that they need a system like this, then they have some serious issues that need to be addressed. Unless the person has ran into a bug or has internet issues, dying over and over again on normal modes is 100% something they're doing/not doing. Meaning they have issues with their tactics or build, sometimes both. That doesn't make them a bad player, it means what they're doing isn't working and they need to change something.
As for your line I highlighted in bold, that is NOT what I said and I will thank you to stop trying to put words in my mouth. Quote the exact line you believe I said that. What I actually said was I have no problems helping those who need it that actually want the help. What I won't do is waste my time on the lazy who refuse to learn and get better. There is a HUGE difference between someone who wants to learn but is having a hard time grasping things, and someone who just flat out refuses to learn. The first group are people who want to improve and are trying, which I will work with as long as they need it and I'm able. The second group I have no time for because no amount of help I could give will change a thing for them.
i dont see the tldr explanations you offer as anything but a view of mistrust in other players to learn the game.
as far as the fish analogy...way off mate. not how i see it, but i can see thats how you do. again, if this idea is so off the mark for you, dont do it. myself...i think this would be fun to do. regardless of player level of knowledge. i get to help a fellow CPT in need, and it cost me what? maybe 20 mins max of my time? probably less.
as you probably do, i play a cpl other games, and in these games, people are happy to help out, no questions asked, not have i once come across anyone presenting the way you do. ive never in the other games seen anyone say, "get good," "learn to play." its been more of "sure man, let me help you out, what do you need help with?" and at times they have offered tips, to which i take hold of and learn from. maybe its a STO thing...dunno. I dont play too many other games anymore. my reflexes are not what they used to be, so i find solace in enjoying the game.
If I display a "mistrust in other players to learn the game" did you stop to consider that maybe it's because I've been given reason to mistrust? Plenty of times I've seen people posting here on the forums talking about issues with the game, yet when folks offer help such as build changes or tactics changes, it gets thrown back in our face and they double down on blaming the game. Prime examples being the threads that come around every time Red Alert events are going on where folks complain about "DPSers killing things before I can even load in or get to a target" and wanting everyone nerfed. I've also PMed people plenty of times after TFOs when I've noticed they've had an issue staying alive and said "i noticed you seemed to have a hard time in that TFO right then, is there anything I can help you out with" only for them to throw it back in my face and call me everything but a milk cow. Just like you say you have issues with folks saying "git good", you should also have issues with people calling folks an elitist because they dared offer to help. It goes both ways.
If you enjoy helping other people and are able to get them help they need to improve, then good on you, keep doing that. The issue has never been whether any of us having issues helping folks. The issue is whether this system offers the right kind of help to address an issue.
As to the fish analogy, are you really suggesting that it's better to let people keep struggling instead of addressing why they're struggling to start with? I'll give you credit, that one actually made me sit back in my chair and do a double take. You're free to think this distress call thing is a good idea, and for that matter I'm not opposed to it in principle. If folks want to help others out in a manor like this by all means. The difference between the two of us in this instance is I would rather cure the disease vs just treating the symptoms. Giving people a resource such as a dungeon journal where they can learn different basic concepts is alot less work intensive than something like this system would ever be and is much more likely to happen than a system like this.
(Emphasis added)
To be honest, Red Alerts are problematic. There just aren't enough hit points on the map if there's a (or more) capable player on the team who can vaporise everything before someone else has even finished loading the mission or flying towards an objective.
That's also why I wrote the things I did in my previous post: I don't believe that STO is a game where too many people really are struggling. At least not sufficiently so that they'll remain stuck in content often, as there will usually already be someone else present who can finish it for them.
Or the mission just finishes by itself, like many pieces of content do nowadays.
as far as the "get good," etc. paragraph, i am not certain i understand your reply or how you want it to be understood. it confuses me.
again...agree to disagree.
Definition of agree to disagree
: to agree not to argue anymore about a difference of opinion
Okay. Let me be exceedingly clear, because I very much do not "agree to disagree" about this, because it actually is not a difference of opinion. It's a difference of you thinking that only your opinion is valid.
Regarding the "get good", etc.... both you and (in an earlier post) nixie have been harping on this "but you can't force people to play your way", etcetera, and SPECIFICALLY objected to the whole idea of encouraging people to actually learn the game and be self-sufficient.... by stating that toxic players have said so in insulting ways in the past... and thus implying that we're not allowed to think or say such things because they sometimes have lead to toxicity.
Meanwhile, we're saying those things in full sentences (or more, to the point that you are also insulting the length of our posts), in calm and collected ways.
where you are in error is that NO ONE helps out those who need it. Like Nixie, I have seen far too many Get Good, you suck, stop playing; and NEVER ONCE has anyone reached out after a TFO saying, hey, let me give you some constructive criticism. The simple fact is the toxic players are out there, EN MASS, and the tutors are non-existent. and before you say it, Yes those players can post on the forums, but I was playing for over a year before I even realized the forums were a source of learning.
as for the OP's concept, I seem to remember there are a few episodes/mission that break if you are teamed. maybe they have been fixed or removed?
Comments
If I am "condescending" in this instance it's because I'm tired of seeing certain arguments every single time myself or someone else dares suggest people do a little leg work or prep work on their own to overcome issues. I'm tired of seeing certain arguments every time someone complains about having issues and I dare suggest they need to alter their build and/or tactics. I'm tired of every time people complain about difficulties in game, it's always the game's fault and NEVER that they the player are at fault. I'm tired of every time people complain about issues and people like myself or others try to help them in good faith, they throw it back in our faces and call us every name under the sun. I'm tired of those people who complain about issues then try to hide behind the "i'm just trying to have fun" excuse as to why any advice given goes in one ear and out the other. I'm tired of people who have no desire to learn and improve coming on here, whining about the game and how hard of a time they're having, then wasting the time of other people who are actually trying to help them.
Sorry but truth hurts. Sometimes people need to hear that their build is objectively bad for what they're trying to do, because sometimes it is objectively bad. Sometimes people need to hear that their tactics are bad, because sometimes their tactics are objectively bad. Sometimes people need to be told they are not ready for certain content because they're not. If a team is going into an Infected Space Elite and all the team meets the minimum DPS requirement, but the 5th guy is only pulling 2k DPS and dying every other second, I'm sorry but that guy has no business in that queue as they're not ready for that content. One day they will be but that day isn't today. Being new, having a subpar build, or having bad tactics doesn't make one a bad player. What makes one a bad player is refusing to learn and get better and overcome those issues. When people refuse to learn and get better when by their own admissions they're having issues, it wastes their time and everyone else around them, including any TFO teams unfortunate enough to get grouped with those people.
I am not now nor have I ever been opposed to people having fun, so please don't try to put words in my mouth. Part of why we play games is to have fun. One can deal great damage and survive while still having fun. One can also have a respectable amount of output that contributes to team runs while still having fun. The concepts aren't mutually exclusive. I'm all for folks having fun so long as that fun isn't at the expense of other people. Prime example is the one I gave above of the ISE and guy doing only 2k DPS. Dude isn't contributing anything to that run and is hindering his team. Finally I am not opposed to people helping other folks in this game. So long as people are willing to learn and get better and the person offering the help is genuine, it's something I'm glad to see.
What I am telling you is that while I am not opposed to this proposal on principle, I'm opposed to it because of how easy it would be to abuse, and because it doesn't address WHY those people are dying over and over to start with. This proposal is the equivalent of handing the controller over to an older sibling and asking them to beat the fight for you. Will it get you through the level in that particular instance, sure it will. But what happens if they need to play that level again and the older sibling isn't around? The older sibling isn't always going to be around to help and at some point the younger sibling is going to have to stand on their own two feet.
Lastly there is a very big thing I'm surprised none has brought up. What happens if someone goes to answer said distress call of another player, but that person can't beat it either? What happens then? Does another distress call go out? What do you do then? Ultimately this proposal would be nothing but a band-aid that never addresses the root problem of the issues to start with.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
What you say is fair enough BUT, the WAY it it is said is FAR more important. when I tried to do TFOs, and the very few times I thought I was ready for advanced, I never got some one saying, Hey, lets talk about your build/tactics/whatever. what I got was "you suck stop playing this game" "Git Gud" and don't try to tell me that doesn't happen, it does, more often than not, and I have sent screenshots to GMs and customer service over it. Thankfully a certain fleet that is no longer in the game was a large part of it but some of those "L33t" players are still out there, like some cancer waiting to strike. I like the OPs idea but it's going to talke far too many resources to implement, and any sort of reward would be exploited, and the whole mechanic could be used to do nothing but troll less capable players.
The part in bold right there is your problem. As you've done plenty of times before you're jumping to conclusions by assuming that criticism of one's build or tactics automatically means they're trying to belittle a person. Or in this case criticizing the idea. You need to understand that just because someone criticizes something it doesn't automatically mean they're belittling something or hate the person. In this instance I am criticizing the idea because it doesn't address WHY those people got into a situation to need something like this to start with. You ever hear the old saying "give a man a fish you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish you feed him for a lifetime"?
This idea is the equivalent of giving a man a fish. Sure this may help that person get past a particular encounter they've having issues with in that moment. At the same time it doesn't address WHY they found it difficult to start with. All you've done is skipped our person ahead without addressing why they needed to be skipped ahead to start with. When you step back and give people resources to know what everything does, such as a STO equivalent of a dungeon journal, that also explains some basic concepts, you give them the knowledge they can use to figure out things for themselves and in turn you get better players. Thus by addressing WHY they got stuck to start with, you've taught the person to fish and fed them for the lifetime of their STO career. To reiterate the point I am NOT, I repeat am NOT OPPOSED TO HELPING PEOPLE WHO NEED IT. I am opposed to band-aid solutions that don't address the actual problem.
As another already pointed out, putting people on the ignore list doesn't keep me from being grouped with them. As said above it has nothing to do with my standards, but everything to do with addressing the actual problem instead of applying band aid solutions.
Regardless of whether it's a single player mission or a TFO, people should have the basic performance to get through the content in a reasonable timeframe and not take 20 years to get one mission completed or die every 5 seconds. If it's team based content again they shouldn't be dying every 5 seconds and should have enough basic performance to contribute to their team. It doesn't have to be top 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the game, but if a TFO requires a minimum of 20k from everyone on the team, they should at least be able to pull that 20k.
Lastly in regards to rewards, if the goal is to help people out, you send the wrong message by offering a reward for it. Because what's going to happen is people are going to hop in, grab the rewards, then bounce. Then you're right back to square one of that person still being stuck. I've seen it plenty of times. All of this also assumes of course the person using the feature actually WANTS help and isn't just looking for someone to beat the mission for them. Point being however if you truly want to help people as you seem to indicate you want to do, then you will be far more effective by addressing WHY they would need a system like this to start with, vs applying the system as a band-aid solution.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
First up I find it funny that you try to bash me for a "wall of text" then you post one of your own by that same logic. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, single player missions, patrols, and TFOs all operate using the same mechanics and principles and invariably are linked. the only difference is in the scale various mechanics take place. If a player is having issues in normal mode episode missions they're going to have those same issues in TFOs and team based content. It's like having issues playing a guitar on your own but suddenly trying to join a band expecting that magically your issues will disappear. What I said has everything to do with what is being requested. I know full well the OP intends this to be a help to people. What I am telling you is that it's not the right kind of help. It's a band-aid solution doesn't actually address the problem. Much like putting a bucket under a leak in your roof stops the floor from getting wet, but doesn't fix the leak.
Second, get this through your head, it has NOTHING to do with folks not playing the way I do, but everything to do with actually addressing the issue of why they would need to utilize a system like this to start with. Dying should be uncommon to rare for people in this game, especially on normal mode anything. If someone is dying so much that they need a system like this, then they have some serious issues that need to be addressed. Unless the person has ran into a bug or has internet issues, dying over and over again on normal modes is 100% something they're doing/not doing. Meaning they have issues with their tactics or build, sometimes both. That doesn't make them a bad player, it means what they're doing isn't working and they need to change something.
As for your line I highlighted in bold, that is NOT what I said and I will thank you to stop trying to put words in my mouth. Quote the exact line you believe I said that. What I actually said was I have no problems helping those who need it that actually want the help. What I won't do is waste my time on the lazy who refuse to learn and get better. There is a HUGE difference between someone who wants to learn but is having a hard time grasping things, and someone who just flat out refuses to learn. The first group are people who want to improve and are trying, which I will work with as long as they need it and I'm able. The second group I have no time for because no amount of help I could give will change a thing for them.
If I display a "mistrust in other players to learn the game" did you stop to consider that maybe it's because I've been given reason to mistrust? Plenty of times I've seen people posting here on the forums talking about issues with the game, yet when folks offer help such as build changes or tactics changes, it gets thrown back in our face and they double down on blaming the game. Prime examples being the threads that come around every time Red Alert events are going on where folks complain about "DPSers killing things before I can even load in or get to a target" and wanting everyone nerfed. I've also PMed people plenty of times after TFOs when I've noticed they've had an issue staying alive and said "i noticed you seemed to have a hard time in that TFO right then, is there anything I can help you out with" only for them to throw it back in my face and call me everything but a milk cow. Just like you say you have issues with folks saying "git good", you should also have issues with people calling folks an elitist because they dared offer to help. It goes both ways.
If you enjoy helping other people and are able to get them help they need to improve, then good on you, keep doing that. The issue has never been whether any of us having issues helping folks. The issue is whether this system offers the right kind of help to address an issue.
As to the fish analogy, are you really suggesting that it's better to let people keep struggling instead of addressing why they're struggling to start with? I'll give you credit, that one actually made me sit back in my chair and do a double take. You're free to think this distress call thing is a good idea, and for that matter I'm not opposed to it in principle. If folks want to help others out in a manor like this by all means. The difference between the two of us in this instance is I would rather cure the disease vs just treating the symptoms. Giving people a resource such as a dungeon journal where they can learn different basic concepts is alot less work intensive than something like this system would ever be and is much more likely to happen than a system like this.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
(Emphasis added)
To be honest, Red Alerts are problematic. There just aren't enough hit points on the map if there's a (or more) capable player on the team who can vaporise everything before someone else has even finished loading the mission or flying towards an objective.
That's also why I wrote the things I did in my previous post: I don't believe that STO is a game where too many people really are struggling. At least not sufficiently so that they'll remain stuck in content often, as there will usually already be someone else present who can finish it for them.
Or the mission just finishes by itself, like many pieces of content do nowadays.
where you are in error is that NO ONE helps out those who need it. Like Nixie, I have seen far too many Get Good, you suck, stop playing; and NEVER ONCE has anyone reached out after a TFO saying, hey, let me give you some constructive criticism. The simple fact is the toxic players are out there, EN MASS, and the tutors are non-existent. and before you say it, Yes those players can post on the forums, but I was playing for over a year before I even realized the forums were a source of learning.
as for the OP's concept, I seem to remember there are a few episodes/mission that break if you are teamed. maybe they have been fixed or removed?