Role Playing a Terran is one thing, but ACUTALLY playing a Terran (and everything that comes with it) is another.
Semantic nonsense, in my opinion. If people who were so against evil characters were so, no one would play Sith/Dark Jedi/etc. in Star Wars games, no one would play dark sorcerers (warlocks, necromancers, etc.)...
Sith and Dark Jedi are probably not the best example since Star Wars, (in its expanded universe version) has shown that not all Sith or Dark Jedi are necessarily evil with characters such Mara Jade (who was a Hand, basically a type of Inquisitor), Darth Gravid who believed in altruism and empathy, Sith and Dark Jedi who still had a core of good (even Darth Vader had that) and who (like Darth Revan) found their way to the light, and other similar characters I forget the names of at the moment.
Even some of the Nightsisters gave lip service to the dark but actually followed the light in many things (for instance they worshiped the Winged Goddess, who was also known as The Daughter, the avatar of the light side), until General Grievous wiped out Talzin's faction.
A lot of players do like to play those conflicted characters who are light at heart but are of the Sith or other dark organizations and often rebel against their evil sponsors and go their own way. That sort of rising from a dark past is a part of the draw of playing Romulans, Dominion, and other similar characters too but it is far different from wanting to play an actual, actively evil villain.
Starkiller was a sith that found his way into the light and even became a Jedi, hell I still consider him to be more a canonical Star Wars character than Rey Palpatine, I still think pulling down a stardestroyer with the force is more plausible and less OP than doing a complete TRIBBLE pull like becoming all the Jedi, "can you please just hold on a minute grandpa Palpatine, just going to become every Jedi without any training like a complete mary stu, feeling cute might commit Identity Theft later by stealing the last name of someone who didn't adopt me" sorry I'm trying but I just can't accept poorly written characters as canon, sorry for my rant and I know it's off topic.
[Rant]Sure. Let's have a Terran Faction. And a Tal Shiar Faction. And an Iconian Faction. And a Sona'a faction. And a H'urq Faction. Then, let's have Recruit Events for all of them. So the forums can fill with endless threads about how the Event is broken because reasons. And we can also have threads about "Real" Terrans versus how Cryptic isn't doing it right. Because there is a two point seven five second video clip somewheres on the InterWebs which "proves conclusively" how "Real" Terrans would do blah blah blah. Next someone can start threads about how the Terran Faction weapons are nerfed. Right along with the complaints about having to do part of the Recruit Event TWO WHOLE TIMES! (OMG!) Because this is Cryptic making the entire thing into a grindfest. Because it is a grindfest, " everyone knows" it is just another way for Cryptic to monetize everything.
Lastly, let's have threads about Terran Faction Lockboxes being unfair and pay-to-win. Because Gramma gave me a whole five dollars for my birthday and that Terran Intel/Miracle Worker/Raider SuperDreadnought with the MkXXV Mega Oblivion Beams should be on sale for One Zen. [/Rant]
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
[Rant]Sure. Let's have a Terran Faction. And a Tal Shiar Faction. And an Iconian Faction. And a Sona'a faction. And a H'urq Faction. Then, let's have Recruit Events for all of them. So the forums can fill with endless threads about how the Event is broken because reasons. And we can also have threads about "Real" Terrans versus how Cryptic isn't doing it right. Because there is a two point seven five second video clip somewheres on the InterWebs which "proves conclusively" how "Real" Terrans would do blah blah blah. Next someone can start threads about how the Terran Faction weapons are nerfed. Right along with the complaints about having to do part of the Recruit Event TWO WHOLE TIMES! (OMG!) Because this is Cryptic making the entire thing into a grindfest. Because it is a grindfest, " everyone knows" it is just another way for Cryptic to monetize everything.
Lastly, let's have threads about Terran Faction Lockboxes being unfair and pay-to-win. Because Gramma gave me a whole five dollars for my birthday and that Terran Intel/Miracle Worker/Raider SuperDreadnought with the MkXXV Mega Oblivion Beams should be on sale for One Zen. [/Rant]
Cryptic is doing fine with the Terrans, I just wish they got the Federation correctly, the UFP never goes into contact with other species guns phasers blazing, that's the Terran Empire's approach to things, the Federation is more about using diplomacy to de-escalate situations, sure gameplay wise that would be boring to some but at least it wouldn't break character, I just have to say that not every Starfleet Captain has to be a Sisko, Cryptic.
[Rant]Sure. Let's have a Tal Shiar Faction. Then, let's have Recruit Events for all of them. So the forums can fill with endless threads about how the Event is broken because reasons.[/Rant]
As for the Tal Shiar, they can be rebuilt in the Shadows, I would still have them as villains but reform them a bit, remove the whole attacking fellow Romulans and sparking a civil war part especially when there are bigger fish to fry like the Federation, the Klingon Empire, the Iconians and the Borg, there are already threats to the Romulan people without fellow Romulans adding more fuel to the fire.
So we've established Vulcomulans get to have beards.
The ones in the Mirror universe are playing with the mustache twirling evil thing AND we all know men with goatee beards are nefarious evil doers in real life too (don't lie, you know you are and we do too).
At most it might prove that some small subset of Vulcans can grow beards, as other examples like the crew of the Seleya, who were in no condition to be able to shave for a significant period of time before Enterprise came across them and none of them had beards, show.
The main thing that makes a mirror Terran faction a waste of time is that the are, by definition, mostly the same as the Federation in almost every way except attitude, and that is more appropriate for the character bio function than as a faction with or without a recruitment event. That is especially true considering that after the tutorial/pick up the transponder scenario they would be immediately dumped into the overwhelmingly Fed-centric main content of the game.
[Rant]Sure. Let's have a Terran Faction. And a Tal Shiar Faction. And an Iconian Faction. And a Sona'a faction. And a H'urq Faction. Then, let's have Recruit Events for all of them. So the forums can fill with endless threads about how the Event is broken because reasons. And we can also have threads about "Real" Terrans versus how Cryptic isn't doing it right. Because there is a two point seven five second video clip somewheres on the InterWebs which "proves conclusively" how "Real" Terrans would do blah blah blah. Next someone can start threads about how the Terran Faction weapons are nerfed. Right along with the complaints about having to do part of the Recruit Event TWO WHOLE TIMES! (OMG!) Because this is Cryptic making the entire thing into a grindfest. Because it is a grindfest, " everyone knows" it is just another way for Cryptic to monetize everything.
Lastly, let's have threads about Terran Faction Lockboxes being unfair and pay-to-win. Because Gramma gave me a whole five dollars for my birthday and that Terran Intel/Miracle Worker/Raider SuperDreadnought with the MkXXV Mega Oblivion Beams should be on sale for One Zen. [/Rant]
Cryptic is doing fine with the Terrans, I just wish they got the Federation correctly, the UFP never goes into contact with other species guns phasers blazing, that's the Terran Empire's approach to things, the Federation is more about using diplomacy to de-escalate situations, sure gameplay wise that would be boring to some but at least it wouldn't break character, I just have to say that not every Starfleet Captain has to be a Sisko, Cryptic.
Except sometimes even the Federation has to start shooting.
I think the Renegade's Regret issue is part of the 'I want to use MY toon I spent hours and hundreds of resources making' sentiment.
People want to play evil but don't want their own toons sidelined.
Though I appreciate they can't go too hard on Terran representation, Klingon's general MO was probably pushing it. A rating elevation would murder this game.
Nope. I'm one of those folks who after running the mission in question once, will never run it on any of my toons again. Why? I found it disgusting to play - and even more disgusting that they have Geordie being sympathetic to her afterwards. I don't care to play disgustingly evil characters; and the mission made a character I created do something so morally disgusting - yeah, it's a mission I'd stop playing - and skip like I've done with this mission after playing it once.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I think the Renegade's Regret issue is part of the 'I want to use MY toon I spent hours and hundreds of resources making' sentiment.
People want to play evil but don't want their own toons sidelined.
Though I appreciate they can't go too hard on Terran representation, Klingon's general MO was probably pushing it. A rating elevation would murder this game.
Nope. I'm one of those folks who after running the mission in question once, will never run it on any of my toons again. Why? I found it disgusting to play - and even more disgusting that they have Geordie being sympathetic to her afterwards. I don't care to play disgustingly evil characters; and the mission made a character I created do something so morally disgusting - yeah, it's a mission I'd stop playing - and skip like I've done with this mission after playing it once.
What can you say Neth Parr is a Sympathetic character, of course Geordie would feel sorry for her, I even felt sorry for her, having a black and white morality isn't good for your mental health BTW, various shades of grey can exist, for example Benjamin Sisko is considered a hero of the Federation despite also being a war criminal, sometimes in war you have to get your hands dirty, Renegade's Regret is no different than that time Sisko poisoned an entire planet, the main difference is that Neth Parr was one of the badguys, it's like some people these days can't fathom the concept of a redemption arc.
I think the Renegade's Regret issue is part of the 'I want to use MY toon I spent hours and hundreds of resources making' sentiment.
People want to play evil but don't want their own toons sidelined.
Though I appreciate they can't go too hard on Terran representation, Klingon's general MO was probably pushing it. A rating elevation would murder this game.
Nope. I'm one of those folks who after running the mission in question once, will never run it on any of my toons again. Why? I found it disgusting to play - and even more disgusting that they have Geordie being sympathetic to her afterwards. I don't care to play disgustingly evil characters; and the mission made a character I created do something so morally disgusting - yeah, it's a mission I'd stop playing - and skip like I've done with this mission after playing it once.
What can you say Neth Parr is a Sympathetic character, of course Geordie would feel sorry for her, I even felt sorry for her, having a black and white morality isn't good for your mental health BTW, various shades of grey can exist, for example Benjamin Sisko is considered a hero of the Federation despite also being a war criminal, sometimes in war you have to get your hands dirty, Renegade's Regret is no different than that time Sisko poisoned an entire planet, the main difference is that Neth Parr was one of the badguys, it's like some people these days can't fathom the concept of a redemption arc.
In my opinion what they had her do made her irredeemable. She should have stopped WAY before the [point she did; so yeah, sorry, I have zero sympathy for said character. There's 'clearly wrong' in addition to 'shades of grey' and the former was clear in the story (IMO).
But yeah, for a game kliek STO - I don't care to be involved with those kinds of characters or missions myself. YMMV.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I think the Renegade's Regret issue is part of the 'I want to use MY toon I spent hours and hundreds of resources making' sentiment.
People want to play evil but don't want their own toons sidelined.
Though I appreciate they can't go too hard on Terran representation, Klingon's general MO was probably pushing it. A rating elevation would murder this game.
Nope. I'm one of those folks who after running the mission in question once, will never run it on any of my toons again. Why? I found it disgusting to play - and even more disgusting that they have Geordie being sympathetic to her afterwards. I don't care to play disgustingly evil characters; and the mission made a character I created do something so morally disgusting - yeah, it's a mission I'd stop playing - and skip like I've done with this mission after playing it once.
That's you.
I was at Kosovo during the "unpleasantness", following that Afghanistan. So you may say I'm a little desensitized to the horror humanity can get up to.
Anyway, my point is I have trouble playing good guys or at least straight laced diplomatic types. It's why I have 5 KDF alligned toons, and at best they could be described as anti-heroes.
If this game was Star Trek in it's idealistic Roddenberry form I wouldn't play it at all.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,667Community Moderator
In my opinion what they had her do made her irredeemable. She should have stopped WAY before the [point she did; so yeah, sorry, I have zero sympathy for said character. There's 'clearly wrong' in addition to 'shades of grey' and the former was clear in the story (IMO).
But yeah, for a game kliek STO - I don't care to be involved with those kinds of characters or missions myself. YMMV.
From my perspective, she was a rookie Captain, JUST earned her first command, and eager to prove herself to the Coalition. At first it was seen as an honor for her to join the Admiral's taskforce and try and fight against this massive threat.
Then she was forced to leave members of her crew behind when they could have been saved.
Then she was forced to murder innocents out of paranoia from the Admiral.
Then she was forced to attack a planet that tried to save itself by offering what the Tzenkethi wanted, only for the Admiral to turn around and hit the planet anyways "to be sure they aren't lying".
It was one thing after another that made her turn against the Admiral. Sometimes it takes time and many things stacking up before someone finally says enough. It wouldn't make sense to earn a command, then INSTANTLY say no to a superior officer. That's not character development.
She started as an eager rookie, and had her belief in the Coalition's just cause shattered by her own CO's brutality. She didn't know the lengths the Admiral was willing to go until she got slapped in the face with it.
From a storytelling perspective... she learned the truth the hard way, and over time.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
As I have said in some of the other "Mirror Universe Faction" threads that have popped up, a full faction is one of the safest "no" bets I can think of in this game, but a tutorial? A "Mirror Captain"? That I can see.
You are assigned to a ship. The Captain likes you. He's not an entirely evil type, and maybe he was a family friend or something. He can't offer you First Officer, but he can get you in his command and try to watch out for you.
Now, you are fighting Mirror Klingons or whatever on your maiden voyage and suddenly the First Officer makes his move, killing the Captain and assuming command.
The thing is, the former First Officer, the new Captain? They were not at all Captain material. They manipulated and backstabbed their way up the chain of command, but they have no skill at battle strategy and tactics so the fight suddenly goes south.
You manage to save the day and, when the new Captain decides to take you out because they fear the crew maybe backing you? You kill them and assume command yourself.
Of course, with your friend, something of a father-figure dead because of Mirror politics, it weakens your already less than enthusiastic support of the system, and this will be reflected in the dialogue with your BOFFs and various NPCs as you go.
The story continues with your first assignment being to track down some rebel cells but you actually choose to ally with them, and so now you are fighting against the Mirror Univers Powers-That-Be from now on.
In the end, the rebels plan to open a portal to the main universe but an overwhelming force of Mirror Ships shows up to stop them. Fight, fight, fight, maybe get some ground combat in there like with the TOS tutorial, fight a little more, and in the end the lead rebel ship with the portal device tells you that you have to survive, they open the portal right on top of you, and you are sent through.
The Federation takes you in, you are now a "Mirror Captain" in the same way there are TOS and Disco Captains, and you go do Stranded In Space after a quick tour of ESD.
At no point are you killing "good guys" in that story.
You kill evil Klingons and Mirror Universe baddies.
As I have said in some of the other "Mirror Universe Faction" threads that have popped up, a full faction is one of the safest "no" bets I can think of in this game, but a tutorial? A "Mirror Captain"? That I can see.
You are assigned to a ship. The Captain likes you. He's not an entirely evil type, and maybe he was a family friend or something. He can't offer you First Officer, but he can get you in his command and try to watch out for you.
Now, you are fighting Mirror Klingons or whatever on your maiden voyage and suddenly the First Officer makes his move, killing the Captain and assuming command.
The thing is, the former First Officer, the new Captain? They were not at all Captain material. They manipulated and backstabbed their way up the chain of command, but they have no skill at battle strategy and tactics so the fight suddenly goes south.
You manage to save the day and, when the new Captain decides to take you out because they fear the crew maybe backing you? You kill them and assume command yourself.
Of course, with your friend, something of a father-figure dead because of Mirror politics, it weakens your already less than enthusiastic support of the system, and this will be reflected in the dialogue with your BOFFs and various NPCs as you go.
The story continues with your first assignment being to track down some rebel cells but you actually choose to ally with them, and so now you are fighting against the Mirror Univers Powers-That-Be from now on.
In the end, the rebels plan to open a portal to the main universe but an overwhelming force of Mirror Ships shows up to stop them. Fight, fight, fight, maybe get some ground combat in there like with the TOS tutorial, fight a little more, and in the end the lead rebel ship with the portal device tells you that you have to survive, they open the portal right on top of you, and you are sent through.
The Federation takes you in, you are now a "Mirror Captain" in the same way there are TOS and Disco Captains, and you go do Stranded In Space after a quick tour of ESD.
At no point are you killing "good guys" in that story.
You kill evil Klingons and Mirror Universe baddies.
The family friend angle might work for a Terran (race) PC, but it doesn't quite work with non-human Terran (Faction) PCs, the Terrans (Race/Faction) themselves are xenophobic, besides Mirror Klingons are the "good guys" of the mirror universe, Most the Rebellions against the Terran Empire are either caused or inspired by the Mirror Klingons themselves.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,667Community Moderator
Interesting and very well thought out.
The only hitch in it is... the existence of our mirror counterpart in the current storyline.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Interesting and very well thought out.
The only hitch in it is... the existence of our mirror counterpart in the current storyline.
Actually, that has possibilities of its own if the ending of the mirror arc has a Spock-like (or Neth Parr like) faceturn in store for the mirror version of our characters. If that is the case a mirror tutorial could just be some basic move and fire instruction followed by automatically dumping into the mirror arc (with perhaps a cutscene or two to stich it together and lead out to the main universe more smoothly).
If the devs wanted to really go crazy they could put something like a limited transponder in to get people to play some of the already existing stuff (like Borg ground) more and award some mirror-motif gear for doing so.
Still, I am not sure even that amount of dev time, effort and expense would be worth it since the difference is mostly just attitude and different uniforms.
Interesting and very well thought out.
The only hitch in it is... the existence of our mirror counterpart in the current storyline.
Transporter Duplicate works as well, I mean we already have 2 Rikers in the Prime universe, who says that a similar situation couldn't happen in the Mirror Universe.
Interesting and very well thought out.
The only hitch in it is... the existence of our mirror counterpart in the current storyline.
Transporter Duplicate works as well, I mean we already have 2 Rikers in the Prime universe, who says that a similar situation couldn't happen in the Mirror Universe.
A variant could be that the gateway was unstable and blew up when the player's ship entered the interspace and a copy was thrown clear on each side. Something vaguely like that already happened in VOY, the difference would be that the duplication process succeeded in two viable ships and crews.
That could have even had a slight polarization effect that mildly enhanced the cooperative aspects of the one that landed in Prime and the aggressive selfish tendencies of the one that ended up back in Mirror.
...it doesn't quite work with non-human Terran (Faction) PCs, the Terrans (Race/Faction) themselves are xenophobic...
There are a number of issues with this, but that's not really one of them. The Terran Empire is more distrustful of nonhumans than outright xenophobic; heck, the first officer of ISS Enterprise NCC-1701 was half-alien! Now, the Coalition of Earth - they're pretty doggone xenophobic.
As I have said in some of the other "Mirror Universe Faction" threads that have popped up, a full faction is one of the safest "no" bets I can think of in this game, but a tutorial? A "Mirror Captain"? That I can see.
You are assigned to a ship. The Captain likes you. He's not an entirely evil type, and maybe he was a family friend or something. He can't offer you First Officer, but he can get you in his command and try to watch out for you.
Now, you are fighting Mirror Klingons or whatever on your maiden voyage and suddenly the First Officer makes his move, killing the Captain and assuming command.
The thing is, the former First Officer, the new Captain? They were not at all Captain material. They manipulated and backstabbed their way up the chain of command, but they have no skill at battle strategy and tactics so the fight suddenly goes south.
You manage to save the day and, when the new Captain decides to take you out because they fear the crew maybe backing you? You kill them and assume command yourself.
Of course, with your friend, something of a father-figure dead because of Mirror politics, it weakens your already less than enthusiastic support of the system, and this will be reflected in the dialogue with your BOFFs and various NPCs as you go.
The story continues with your first assignment being to track down some rebel cells but you actually choose to ally with them, and so now you are fighting against the Mirror Univers Powers-That-Be from now on.
In the end, the rebels plan to open a portal to the main universe but an overwhelming force of Mirror Ships shows up to stop them. Fight, fight, fight, maybe get some ground combat in there like with the TOS tutorial, fight a little more, and in the end the lead rebel ship with the portal device tells you that you have to survive, they open the portal right on top of you, and you are sent through.
The Federation takes you in, you are now a "Mirror Captain" in the same way there are TOS and Disco Captains, and you go do Stranded In Space after a quick tour of ESD.
At no point are you killing "good guys" in that story.
You kill evil Klingons and Mirror Universe baddies.
The family friend angle might work for a Terran (race) PC, but it doesn't quite work with non-human Terran (Faction) PCs, the Terrans (Race/Faction) themselves are xenophobic, besides Mirror Klingons are the "good guys" of the mirror universe, Most the Rebellions against the Terran Empire are either caused or inspired by the Mirror Klingons themselves.
Well, there are multiple high-ranking aliens in the game-version of the Mirror Universe, so I don't know why that would have to be a disqualifier. If Leeta can be an Admiral then my Mirror Bajoran Captain's family should be able to have a Human family friend.
But yeah, I wasn't thinking about the Inquisitor when I came up with that plotline, so...
Interesting and very well thought out.
The only hitch in it is... the existence of our mirror counterpart in the current storyline.
... This becomes a problem.
But I came up with that on the fly as I was typing. They want to pay me I am sure I could add a line about "broken mirrors reflecting the same thing from multiple angles" , "a mirror reflecting another mirror to create infinite reflections:, and throw in some technobabble to try and justify it.
Besides, my Inquisitor doesn't even look like me.
I am an Andorian, and while the Inquisitor may share some strong facial similarities and blue skin, he doesn't have antenna (and I wouldn't be caught dead being romantically involved with Tilly in the Mirror or any other universe. "Less talky, more shooty"? I don't take advantage of the mentally impaired).
As I have said in some of the other "Mirror Universe Faction" threads that have popped up, a full faction is one of the safest "no" bets I can think of in this game, but a tutorial? A "Mirror Captain"? That I can see.
You are assigned to a ship. The Captain likes you. He's not an entirely evil type, and maybe he was a family friend or something. He can't offer you First Officer, but he can get you in his command and try to watch out for you.
Now, you are fighting Mirror Klingons or whatever on your maiden voyage and suddenly the First Officer makes his move, killing the Captain and assuming command.
The thing is, the former First Officer, the new Captain? They were not at all Captain material. They manipulated and backstabbed their way up the chain of command, but they have no skill at battle strategy and tactics so the fight suddenly goes south.
You manage to save the day and, when the new Captain decides to take you out because they fear the crew maybe backing you? You kill them and assume command yourself.
Of course, with your friend, something of a father-figure dead because of Mirror politics, it weakens your already less than enthusiastic support of the system, and this will be reflected in the dialogue with your BOFFs and various NPCs as you go.
The story continues with your first assignment being to track down some rebel cells but you actually choose to ally with them, and so now you are fighting against the Mirror Univers Powers-That-Be from now on.
In the end, the rebels plan to open a portal to the main universe but an overwhelming force of Mirror Ships shows up to stop them. Fight, fight, fight, maybe get some ground combat in there like with the TOS tutorial, fight a little more, and in the end the lead rebel ship with the portal device tells you that you have to survive, they open the portal right on top of you, and you are sent through.
The Federation takes you in, you are now a "Mirror Captain" in the same way there are TOS and Disco Captains, and you go do Stranded In Space after a quick tour of ESD.
At no point are you killing "good guys" in that story.
You kill evil Klingons and Mirror Universe baddies.
The family friend angle might work for a Terran (race) PC, but it doesn't quite work with non-human Terran (Faction) PCs, the Terrans (Race/Faction) themselves are xenophobic, besides Mirror Klingons are the "good guys" of the mirror universe, Most the Rebellions against the Terran Empire are either caused or inspired by the Mirror Klingons themselves.
Well, there are multiple high-ranking aliens in the game-version of the Mirror Universe, so I don't know why that would have to be a disqualifier. If Leeta can be an Admiral then my Mirror Bajoran Captain's family should be able to have a Human family friend.
But yeah, I wasn't thinking about the Inquisitor when I came up with that plotline, so...
Interesting and very well thought out.
The only hitch in it is... the existence of our mirror counterpart in the current storyline.
... This becomes a problem.
But I came up with that on the fly as I was typing. They want to pay me I am sure I could add a line about "broken mirrors reflecting the same thing from multiple angles" , "a mirror reflecting another mirror to create infinite reflections:, and throw in some technobabble to try and justify it.
Besides, my Inquisitor doesn't even look like me.
I am an Andorian, and while the Inquisitor may share some strong facial similarities and blue skin, he doesn't have antenna (and I wouldn't be caught dead being romantically involved with Tilly in the Mirror or any other universe. "Less talky, more shooty"? I don't take advantage of the mentally impaired).
I'll write the Antenna bug off as the Inquisitor losing them in the same fight that also gave them a voice box, Besides ENT made it so that Andorians can regrow their antennas, Don't know if Ryn the one antenna Andorian from Discovery knew about the whole regrowing antenna thing or if 32nd Andorians lost that ability.
They've also pointed to the negative feedback they got from Renegade's Regret as well. Most people don't want to play evil, even if its morally questioned by the "character" involved, like how Captain Parr questioned orders as they got more and more questionable until she finally decided she had enough.
Role Playing a Terran is one thing, but ACUTALLY playing a Terran (and everything that comes with it) is another.
I don't quite get it...the devs can be sure they don't make any of the missions particularly evil, and the fact that even as the "good guys" we kills thousands every day...we rarely try to negotiate, go into pretty much almost everything with phasers hot
I'm just a lowly rp'er and I've come up with ideas that can justify Terrans without them mustache twirling villains
actually, a terran arc would be pretty easy to do and still be palatable. it would be no different than the Romulan arc, where you are fighting the evil (Tal Shiar) you could be a cadet being recruited by the Mirror S31, to find you have a chance to cross over
As I have said in some of the other "Mirror Universe Faction" threads that have popped up, a full faction is one of the safest "no" bets I can think of in this game, but a tutorial? A "Mirror Captain"? That I can see.
You are assigned to a ship. The Captain likes you. He's not an entirely evil type, and maybe he was a family friend or something. He can't offer you First Officer, but he can get you in his command and try to watch out for you.
Now, you are fighting Mirror Klingons or whatever on your maiden voyage and suddenly the First Officer makes his move, killing the Captain and assuming command.
The thing is, the former First Officer, the new Captain? They were not at all Captain material. They manipulated and backstabbed their way up the chain of command, but they have no skill at battle strategy and tactics so the fight suddenly goes south.
You manage to save the day and, when the new Captain decides to take you out because they fear the crew maybe backing you? You kill them and assume command yourself.
Of course, with your friend, something of a father-figure dead because of Mirror politics, it weakens your already less than enthusiastic support of the system, and this will be reflected in the dialogue with your BOFFs and various NPCs as you go.
The story continues with your first assignment being to track down some rebel cells but you actually choose to ally with them, and so now you are fighting against the Mirror Univers Powers-That-Be from now on.
In the end, the rebels plan to open a portal to the main universe but an overwhelming force of Mirror Ships shows up to stop them. Fight, fight, fight, maybe get some ground combat in there like with the TOS tutorial, fight a little more, and in the end the lead rebel ship with the portal device tells you that you have to survive, they open the portal right on top of you, and you are sent through.
The Federation takes you in, you are now a "Mirror Captain" in the same way there are TOS and Disco Captains, and you go do Stranded In Space after a quick tour of ESD.
At no point are you killing "good guys" in that story.
You kill evil Klingons and Mirror Universe baddies.
The family friend angle might work for a Terran (race) PC, but it doesn't quite work with non-human Terran (Faction) PCs, the Terrans (Race/Faction) themselves are xenophobic, besides Mirror Klingons are the "good guys" of the mirror universe, Most the Rebellions against the Terran Empire are either caused or inspired by the Mirror Klingons themselves.
Well, there are multiple high-ranking aliens in the game-version of the Mirror Universe, so I don't know why that would have to be a disqualifier. If Leeta can be an Admiral then my Mirror Bajoran Captain's family should be able to have a Human family friend.
But yeah, I wasn't thinking about the Inquisitor when I came up with that plotline, so...
Interesting and very well thought out.
The only hitch in it is... the existence of our mirror counterpart in the current storyline.
... This becomes a problem.
But I came up with that on the fly as I was typing. They want to pay me I am sure I could add a line about "broken mirrors reflecting the same thing from multiple angles" , "a mirror reflecting another mirror to create infinite reflections:, and throw in some technobabble to try and justify it.
Besides, my Inquisitor doesn't even look like me.
I am an Andorian, and while the Inquisitor may share some strong facial similarities and blue skin, he doesn't have antenna (and I wouldn't be caught dead being romantically involved with Tilly in the Mirror or any other universe. "Less talky, more shooty"? I don't take advantage of the mentally impaired).
I'll write the Antenna bug off as the Inquisitor losing them in the same fight that also gave them a voice box, Besides ENT made it so that Andorians can regrow their antennas, Don't know if Ryn the one antenna Andorian from Discovery knew about the whole regrowing antenna thing or if 32nd Andorians lost that ability.
The Emerald Chain burned Ryn's antennae off so that they couldn't regrow. It was mentioned.
I don't want a faction where a potential char I make is magically transformed into someone who used to be bad but is now viewed as good because now all he/she/they do is kill other bad guys. While I appreciate Cryptic is fleshing out parts of Star Trek which others have ignored, in this case I hope they have the good sense to leave well enough alone.
I am opposed to a Terran Empire Faction because there is already enough evil in this world. And I get to watch it live if I choose to do so. I come to STO to play and forget my worries and cares for awhile. If I wanted to be evil and morally bankrupt, I can accomplish this easily enough IRL.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,667Community Moderator
They've already said they're not doing a Terran Faction anyways.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
They've already said they're not doing a Terran Faction anyways.
I know, I know... But it's a real shame too, I feel like a Terran Faction could make "Good" Terrans a thing, technically not good but enough so that their Goals align with the Federation at least, like Mirror Spock and Mirror Georgiou.
They've already said they're not doing a Terran Faction anyways.
I know, I know... But it's a real shame too, I feel like a Terran Faction could make "Good" Terrans a thing, technically not good but enough so that their Goals align with the Federation at least, like Mirror Spock and Mirror Georgiou.
.... we could get a Terran Recruit like how last year we had the Klingon Recruit. I remember someone mentioned Cryptic did not have any interest to create a Terran Faction, but I figured a Recruit is a good enough compromise.
No. Just no. Less Terran stuff please, not more.
The best Star Trek series (in my view, obviously) - TNG and Voyager. Neither of which had any lazy mirror universe nonsense (I'm not counting the weird Warship Voyager holodeck episode). It stood up under what passed as sci-fi in the 1960s but it doesn't pass muster today.
Just say no to DS9's lazy biphobia and sex shaming.
Just say no to having some goatee-wearing barmaid screeching "Make repairs!" at you every ten seconds.
Just say no to any more 21st century millennial snark and literal eye-rolling in boob tubes.
Interesting and very well thought out.
The only hitch in it is... the existence of our mirror counterpart in the current storyline.
No hitch - who's to say that our counterpart in the prime universe wasn't actually somewhat insane. They undergo all kinds of terror in their youth and grow up with secret grudges to make it through Starfleet with the idea of someday having revenge. On a diplomatic mission they think that it would be better to show force and have revenge so they mutiny. They knock out the captain and order the crew to fire using some made up reason - during the ensuing battle the ship is disabled and in a weird confluence of accidents the ship is pulled to the mirror universe as yours teleports to the prime universe.
Your prime counterpart excels in the mirror universe just as much as you excel in the prime universe. Eventually they become the Inquisitor.
Comments
Starkiller was a sith that found his way into the light and even became a Jedi, hell I still consider him to be more a canonical Star Wars character than Rey Palpatine, I still think pulling down a stardestroyer with the force is more plausible and less OP than doing a complete TRIBBLE pull like becoming all the Jedi, "can you please just hold on a minute grandpa Palpatine, just going to become every Jedi without any training like a complete mary stu, feeling cute might commit Identity Theft later by stealing the last name of someone who didn't adopt me" sorry I'm trying but I just can't accept poorly written characters as canon, sorry for my rant and I know it's off topic.
Lastly, let's have threads about Terran Faction Lockboxes being unfair and pay-to-win. Because Gramma gave me a whole five dollars for my birthday and that Terran Intel/Miracle Worker/Raider SuperDreadnought with the MkXXV Mega Oblivion Beams should be on sale for One Zen. [/Rant]
Cryptic is doing fine with the Terrans, I just wish they got the Federation correctly, the UFP never goes into contact with other species guns phasers blazing, that's the Terran Empire's approach to things, the Federation is more about using diplomacy to de-escalate situations, sure gameplay wise that would be boring to some but at least it wouldn't break character, I just have to say that not every Starfleet Captain has to be a Sisko, Cryptic.
As for the Tal Shiar, they can be rebuilt in the Shadows, I would still have them as villains but reform them a bit, remove the whole attacking fellow Romulans and sparking a civil war part especially when there are bigger fish to fry like the Federation, the Klingon Empire, the Iconians and the Borg, there are already threats to the Romulan people without fellow Romulans adding more fuel to the fire.
At most it might prove that some small subset of Vulcans can grow beards, as other examples like the crew of the Seleya, who were in no condition to be able to shave for a significant period of time before Enterprise came across them and none of them had beards, show.
The main thing that makes a mirror Terran faction a waste of time is that the are, by definition, mostly the same as the Federation in almost every way except attitude, and that is more appropriate for the character bio function than as a faction with or without a recruitment event. That is especially true considering that after the tutorial/pick up the transponder scenario they would be immediately dumped into the overwhelmingly Fed-centric main content of the game.
It'd be difficult to stretch that out for a full campaign. I get sick of Leeta after 2 minutes.
Apparently exposed midriffs are all the rage there too but only on the hot chicks.
Except sometimes even the Federation has to start shooting.
Nope. I'm one of those folks who after running the mission in question once, will never run it on any of my toons again. Why? I found it disgusting to play - and even more disgusting that they have Geordie being sympathetic to her afterwards. I don't care to play disgustingly evil characters; and the mission made a character I created do something so morally disgusting - yeah, it's a mission I'd stop playing - and skip like I've done with this mission after playing it once.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
What can you say Neth Parr is a Sympathetic character, of course Geordie would feel sorry for her, I even felt sorry for her, having a black and white morality isn't good for your mental health BTW, various shades of grey can exist, for example Benjamin Sisko is considered a hero of the Federation despite also being a war criminal, sometimes in war you have to get your hands dirty, Renegade's Regret is no different than that time Sisko poisoned an entire planet, the main difference is that Neth Parr was one of the badguys, it's like some people these days can't fathom the concept of a redemption arc.
In my opinion what they had her do made her irredeemable. She should have stopped WAY before the [point she did; so yeah, sorry, I have zero sympathy for said character. There's 'clearly wrong' in addition to 'shades of grey' and the former was clear in the story (IMO).
But yeah, for a game kliek STO - I don't care to be involved with those kinds of characters or missions myself. YMMV.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
That's you.
I was at Kosovo during the "unpleasantness", following that Afghanistan. So you may say I'm a little desensitized to the horror humanity can get up to.
Anyway, my point is I have trouble playing good guys or at least straight laced diplomatic types. It's why I have 5 KDF alligned toons, and at best they could be described as anti-heroes.
If this game was Star Trek in it's idealistic Roddenberry form I wouldn't play it at all.
From my perspective, she was a rookie Captain, JUST earned her first command, and eager to prove herself to the Coalition. At first it was seen as an honor for her to join the Admiral's taskforce and try and fight against this massive threat.
Then she was forced to leave members of her crew behind when they could have been saved.
Then she was forced to murder innocents out of paranoia from the Admiral.
Then she was forced to attack a planet that tried to save itself by offering what the Tzenkethi wanted, only for the Admiral to turn around and hit the planet anyways "to be sure they aren't lying".
It was one thing after another that made her turn against the Admiral. Sometimes it takes time and many things stacking up before someone finally says enough. It wouldn't make sense to earn a command, then INSTANTLY say no to a superior officer. That's not character development.
She started as an eager rookie, and had her belief in the Coalition's just cause shattered by her own CO's brutality. She didn't know the lengths the Admiral was willing to go until she got slapped in the face with it.
From a storytelling perspective... she learned the truth the hard way, and over time.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
You are assigned to a ship. The Captain likes you. He's not an entirely evil type, and maybe he was a family friend or something. He can't offer you First Officer, but he can get you in his command and try to watch out for you.
Now, you are fighting Mirror Klingons or whatever on your maiden voyage and suddenly the First Officer makes his move, killing the Captain and assuming command.
The thing is, the former First Officer, the new Captain? They were not at all Captain material. They manipulated and backstabbed their way up the chain of command, but they have no skill at battle strategy and tactics so the fight suddenly goes south.
You manage to save the day and, when the new Captain decides to take you out because they fear the crew maybe backing you? You kill them and assume command yourself.
Of course, with your friend, something of a father-figure dead because of Mirror politics, it weakens your already less than enthusiastic support of the system, and this will be reflected in the dialogue with your BOFFs and various NPCs as you go.
The story continues with your first assignment being to track down some rebel cells but you actually choose to ally with them, and so now you are fighting against the Mirror Univers Powers-That-Be from now on.
In the end, the rebels plan to open a portal to the main universe but an overwhelming force of Mirror Ships shows up to stop them. Fight, fight, fight, maybe get some ground combat in there like with the TOS tutorial, fight a little more, and in the end the lead rebel ship with the portal device tells you that you have to survive, they open the portal right on top of you, and you are sent through.
The Federation takes you in, you are now a "Mirror Captain" in the same way there are TOS and Disco Captains, and you go do Stranded In Space after a quick tour of ESD.
At no point are you killing "good guys" in that story.
You kill evil Klingons and Mirror Universe baddies.
The family friend angle might work for a Terran (race) PC, but it doesn't quite work with non-human Terran (Faction) PCs, the Terrans (Race/Faction) themselves are xenophobic, besides Mirror Klingons are the "good guys" of the mirror universe, Most the Rebellions against the Terran Empire are either caused or inspired by the Mirror Klingons themselves.
The only hitch in it is... the existence of our mirror counterpart in the current storyline.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Actually, that has possibilities of its own if the ending of the mirror arc has a Spock-like (or Neth Parr like) faceturn in store for the mirror version of our characters. If that is the case a mirror tutorial could just be some basic move and fire instruction followed by automatically dumping into the mirror arc (with perhaps a cutscene or two to stich it together and lead out to the main universe more smoothly).
If the devs wanted to really go crazy they could put something like a limited transponder in to get people to play some of the already existing stuff (like Borg ground) more and award some mirror-motif gear for doing so.
Still, I am not sure even that amount of dev time, effort and expense would be worth it since the difference is mostly just attitude and different uniforms.
Transporter Duplicate works as well, I mean we already have 2 Rikers in the Prime universe, who says that a similar situation couldn't happen in the Mirror Universe.
A variant could be that the gateway was unstable and blew up when the player's ship entered the interspace and a copy was thrown clear on each side. Something vaguely like that already happened in VOY, the difference would be that the duplication process succeeded in two viable ships and crews.
That could have even had a slight polarization effect that mildly enhanced the cooperative aspects of the one that landed in Prime and the aggressive selfish tendencies of the one that ended up back in Mirror.
Well, there are multiple high-ranking aliens in the game-version of the Mirror Universe, so I don't know why that would have to be a disqualifier. If Leeta can be an Admiral then my Mirror Bajoran Captain's family should be able to have a Human family friend.
But yeah, I wasn't thinking about the Inquisitor when I came up with that plotline, so...
... This becomes a problem.
But I came up with that on the fly as I was typing. They want to pay me I am sure I could add a line about "broken mirrors reflecting the same thing from multiple angles" , "a mirror reflecting another mirror to create infinite reflections:, and throw in some technobabble to try and justify it.
Besides, my Inquisitor doesn't even look like me.
I am an Andorian, and while the Inquisitor may share some strong facial similarities and blue skin, he doesn't have antenna (and I wouldn't be caught dead being romantically involved with Tilly in the Mirror or any other universe. "Less talky, more shooty"? I don't take advantage of the mentally impaired).
I'll write the Antenna bug off as the Inquisitor losing them in the same fight that also gave them a voice box, Besides ENT made it so that Andorians can regrow their antennas, Don't know if Ryn the one antenna Andorian from Discovery knew about the whole regrowing antenna thing or if 32nd Andorians lost that ability.
actually, a terran arc would be pretty easy to do and still be palatable. it would be no different than the Romulan arc, where you are fighting the evil (Tal Shiar) you could be a cadet being recruited by the Mirror S31, to find you have a chance to cross over
I am opposed to a Terran Empire Faction because there is already enough evil in this world. And I get to watch it live if I choose to do so. I come to STO to play and forget my worries and cares for awhile. If I wanted to be evil and morally bankrupt, I can accomplish this easily enough IRL.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
I know, I know... But it's a real shame too, I feel like a Terran Faction could make "Good" Terrans a thing, technically not good but enough so that their Goals align with the Federation at least, like Mirror Spock and Mirror Georgiou.
No! We don't need any defecting Terrans!
No. Just no. Less Terran stuff please, not more.
The best Star Trek series (in my view, obviously) - TNG and Voyager. Neither of which had any lazy mirror universe nonsense (I'm not counting the weird Warship Voyager holodeck episode). It stood up under what passed as sci-fi in the 1960s but it doesn't pass muster today.
Just say no to DS9's lazy biphobia and sex shaming.
Just say no to having some goatee-wearing barmaid screeching "Make repairs!" at you every ten seconds.
Just say no to any more 21st century millennial snark and literal eye-rolling in boob tubes.
No hitch - who's to say that our counterpart in the prime universe wasn't actually somewhat insane. They undergo all kinds of terror in their youth and grow up with secret grudges to make it through Starfleet with the idea of someday having revenge. On a diplomatic mission they think that it would be better to show force and have revenge so they mutiny. They knock out the captain and order the crew to fire using some made up reason - during the ensuing battle the ship is disabled and in a weird confluence of accidents the ship is pulled to the mirror universe as yours teleports to the prime universe.
Your prime counterpart excels in the mirror universe just as much as you excel in the prime universe. Eventually they become the Inquisitor.