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Phoenix Prize Pack ships???

is there any chanse to get epic ships from Phoenix Prize Pack? becouse after 1000 boxes i am starting to doubt in it. hope it is not buged
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  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 7,172 Arc User
    edited October 17
    is there any chanse to get epic ships from Phoenix Prize Pack? becouse after 1000 boxes i am starting to doubt in it. hope it is not buged

    There is a chance, but the drop rate is ridiculously low for both epic and ultra rare. I bought over 1000 boxes last week (mainly for upgrades) and got one epic and no ultra rares.

    My total pull was roughly 8% very rare, 22% rare, 70% uncommon.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 9,455 Arc User
    Cryptic has never disclosed the rate, but based on many posts like the above we can guess it is somewhere between 1:500 and 1:1,000.

    A 1 in 500 chance would mean that before you open any boxes if you have 1,000 boxes then there is a 13.5% chance that you get nothing, GOOD DAY SIR! A 1 in 1,000 chance means (before you open any) a 36% chance of Mr. Wonka shouting at you.
  • corinthalascorinthalas Member Posts: 1,412 Arc User
    edited October 17
    You can outfit an entire account worth of captains in mkXV gear more readily than you get a single ultra-rare prize token. Heck, you can probably outfit an entire account worth of captains in MKXV UR/Epic more quickly than you can get a single epic prize token. At that rate, they might as well include lobi ships in the phoenix prize packs for all the difference it makes.

    One ship for one captain. What exactly are players going to do with the other 10k+ prize vouchers they'll accumulate trying to get one of those old event ships for all of their captains? Outfit half the game's population in MKXV gear for sh**s and giggles??
  • aftulusaftulus Member Posts: 610 Arc User
    edited October 18
    What if they just make the phoenix ships account unlock because of the rarity. That would be more worth it. Then it would also be logical to add more stuff to it in general as a dil sink. Those ships would be rare account unlocks then. I would both spend more dill on it and upgrade my boffs and other equipment more because of such a change. It would make dill upgrades much more enticing. Half the other stuff in the phoenixes boxes are account unlocks anyway. Is that hard for them to code. If it's easy that is a win win scenario. Or does cryptic only believe in a no win scenario?! ><
  • corinthalascorinthalas Member Posts: 1,412 Arc User
    edited October 18
    aftulus wrote: »
    What if they just make the phoenix ships account unlock because of the rarity. That would be more worth it. Then it would also be logical to add more stuff to it in general as a dil sink. Those ships would be rare account unlocks then. I would both spend more dill on it and upgrade my boffs and other equipment more because of such a change. It would make dill upgrades much more enticing. Half the other stuff in the phoenixes boxes are account unlocks anyway. Is that hard for them to code. If it's easy that is a win win scenario. Or does cryptic only believe in a no win scenario?! ><

    It still has the same problem -- players rapidly exhaust any use they might have for the literal *thousands* of prize vouchers it takes to get them.
  • aftulusaftulus Member Posts: 610 Arc User
    aftulus wrote: »
    What if they just make the phoenix ships account unlock because of the rarity. That would be more worth it. Then it would also be logical to add more stuff to it in general as a dil sink. Those ships would be rare account unlocks then. I would both spend more dill on it and upgrade my boffs and other equipment more because of such a change. It would make dill upgrades much more enticing. Half the other stuff in the phoenixes boxes are account unlocks anyway. Is that hard for them to code. If it's easy that is a win win scenario. Or does cryptic only believe in a no win scenario?! ><

    It still has the same problem -- players rapidly exhaust any use they might have for the literal *thousands* of prize vouchers it takes to get them.

    Yes, but it would make the few you might get go a lot farther.
  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 7,172 Arc User
    aftulus wrote: »
    What if they just make the phoenix ships account unlock because of the rarity. That would be more worth it. Then it would also be logical to add more stuff to it in general as a dil sink. Those ships would be rare account unlocks then. I would both spend more dill on it and upgrade my boffs and other equipment more because of such a change. It would make dill upgrades much more enticing. Half the other stuff in the phoenixes boxes are account unlocks anyway. Is that hard for them to code. If it's easy that is a win win scenario. Or does cryptic only believe in a no win scenario?! ><

    Actually, none of the items in Phoenix are account unlocks, if you get them from Pheonix.

    Almost all of the items - including the ships - are however old event rewards, and are account unlocks if earned from their original event, so I can see the potential confusion...
  • faelon#8433 faelon Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    I think someone once calculated the chances of an Epic Coupon to be the same as a T6 ship from any other box, of somewhere around 0.5%. From what we can tell the odds are somewhat global, not tied to the individual. Which seems to sometimes improve your chances of seeing an Epic Coupon during a Pheonix Box Weekend or an Upgrade Weekend as more people will be opening boxes meaning more chances for the magic number RNJesus to come up for somebody.

    With that said, in the past year since I've been back playing I've pulled 12 Epic Coupons. With maybe around 800-1000 boxes opened on 10 characters. I've got a small stack of them rotting in my bank because I honestly have no real use for them. I wish I could sell them or a ship from them on the Exchange. (looking at my bank I have 2 Epic and 3 UR's, and I just used 2 Epic's on my Temporal recruit about a week ago to get the Bajoran for Domino and the Breen one for Cold Hearted) So yes they do drop. It's all at the whim of the Random Number Generator.
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 2,945 Arc User
    edited October 18
    I remember my first epic popped at the 316th box of my 1007 I was opening. Only got up to 3 epics and 2 ultras.
  • aftulusaftulus Member Posts: 610 Arc User
    westmetals wrote: »
    aftulus wrote: »
    What if they just make the phoenix ships account unlock because of the rarity. That would be more worth it. Then it would also be logical to add more stuff to it in general as a dil sink. Those ships would be rare account unlocks then. I would both spend more dill on it and upgrade my boffs and other equipment more because of such a change. It would make dill upgrades much more enticing. Half the other stuff in the phoenixes boxes are account unlocks anyway. Is that hard for them to code. If it's easy that is a win win scenario. Or does cryptic only believe in a no win scenario?! ><

    Actually, none of the items in Phoenix are account unlocks, if you get them from Pheonix.

    Almost all of the items - including the ships - are however old event rewards, and are account unlocks if earned from their original event, so I can see the potential confusion...

    A bunch of the weapons like and ship items are account unlock. The bajor stuff and the electric gun set and sheild are unlocks along with several other low end parts.
  • robertpinner#5866 robertpinner Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    there is a trade down option to lower prizes packs so there should be a a trade up option. if the drop rate is one in a thousand that is 4 million dil for a ship on one character if there is no charge why not just have them for sale in the dilithium store. its strange that new events ships are put into mudds market but older ships aren't. i would have thought there would be more demand for the older ships.
  • corinthalascorinthalas Member Posts: 1,412 Arc User
    I think someone once calculated the chances of an Epic Coupon to be the same as a T6 ship from any other box, of somewhere around 0.5%. From what we can tell the odds are somewhat global, not tied to the individual. Which seems to sometimes improve your chances of seeing an Epic Coupon during a Pheonix Box Weekend or an Upgrade Weekend as more people will be opening boxes meaning more chances for the magic number RNJesus to come up for somebody.

    With that said, in the past year since I've been back playing I've pulled 12 Epic Coupons. With maybe around 800-1000 boxes opened on 10 characters. I've got a small stack of them rotting in my bank because I honestly have no real use for them. I wish I could sell them or a ship from them on the Exchange. (looking at my bank I have 2 Epic and 3 UR's, and I just used 2 Epic's on my Temporal recruit about a week ago to get the Bajoran for Domino and the Breen one for Cold Hearted) So yes they do drop. It's all at the whim of the Random Number Generator.

    No. The average number of lockboxes for a T6 ship is in the ballpark of 250. The average number of prize packs for an epic token is over a 1000. Even an ultra-rare token is above 1 in 500. This is from many, many, many thousands of samples. Phoenix prize pack odds are nothing like lockboxes.
  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 7,172 Arc User
    edited October 18
    aftulus wrote: »
    westmetals wrote: »
    aftulus wrote: »
    What if they just make the phoenix ships account unlock because of the rarity. That would be more worth it. Then it would also be logical to add more stuff to it in general as a dil sink. Those ships would be rare account unlocks then. I would both spend more dill on it and upgrade my boffs and other equipment more because of such a change. It would make dill upgrades much more enticing. Half the other stuff in the phoenixes boxes are account unlocks anyway. Is that hard for them to code. If it's easy that is a win win scenario. Or does cryptic only believe in a no win scenario?! ><

    Actually, none of the items in Phoenix are account unlocks, if you get them from Pheonix.

    Almost all of the items - including the ships - are however old event rewards, and are account unlocks if earned from their original event, so I can see the potential confusion...

    A bunch of the weapons like and ship items are account unlock. The bajor stuff and the electric gun set and sheild are unlocks along with several other low end parts.

    Please re-read what I wrote.

    Almost everything in Phoenix is old event reward items, and they are account unlocks if you got them from the event - but if you get them from Phoenix, they are not.

    There are a small number of exceptions... but not even everything you listed.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 15,242 Arc User
    edited October 18
    Sadly, the reasoning behind the odds of winning an Epic token being so terrible are blatantly obvious now. Keeping the odds of winning one preposterously low means that the tokens look more attractive when they put them in bundles.
  • gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,061 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Sadly, the reasoning behind the odds of winning an Epic token being so terrible are blatantly obvious now. Keeping the odds of winning one preposterously low means that the tokens look more attractive when they put them in bundles.

    If those where account bound tokens, available only in the bundles.. it would rise its value more... and actually kinda justify the price.
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  • kaosbainkaosbain Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    I've gone through 3000 one time with no epic, I've also gone through 500 and got 3 epic. Random really means random. If you study statistics, these kinds of numbers are common, from dry streaks to clusters of hits.
  • howtorhowtor Member Posts: 186 Arc User
    I personally think they changed the drop rate a year or so ago. I used to get epic and UR a lot. since they started announcing when people get epic like the other rewards i have gotten maybe 2
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 3,733 Arc User
    I have only gotten two epics since the phoenix store came out (and only about four to six UR tokens in that time). And since I am a bit of an altaholic I open a lot of phoenix boxes for upgrades and such.
  • joshmauljoshmaul Member Posts: 436 Arc User
    I've had better luck with the Phoenix boxes (I've gotten two epic tokens out of... nads, I lost count a LONG time ago) than I have with the promo ones, lol.
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  • corinthalascorinthalas Member Posts: 1,412 Arc User
    joshmaul wrote: »
    I've had better luck with the Phoenix boxes (I've gotten two epic tokens out of... nads, I lost count a LONG time ago) than I have with the promo ones, lol.

    Are you suggesting you've opened as many promo packs as you have prize packs?
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,392 Arc User
    I have one, so yes, it is possible: screenshot_2021-10-19-13-54-21.jpg

    I've burned throug around... 500 boxes or so I think...

    Mind you, I never aimed for getting one, it was only for the RnD thingies.
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  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 3,303 Arc User
    i have yet to get one, but then again im not opening as many as yall seem to.
    meh

  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,663 Arc User
    The odds on the Epic Phoenix are frankly ridiculous.

    I am one of those people that builds up every alt, they all have Mark XV Epic Ground and Space.. I have 10 characters, so as you can imagine, I have opened thousands of Phoenix Prize Packs.

    The entire time, I have pulled 2 Epics in all of it. For me, it wasn't a big deal, I have everything in the Epic store, I actually broke down both tokens because there was nothing I could do with them. Still, for those that actually need these things, there is almost no chance of actually getting one.

    The Odds on the Epic tokens are the lowest of all the RnG in the game, and the odds are ridiculously low almost to the point of being insulting.
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  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 9,455 Arc User
    edited October 20
    The entire time, I have pulled 2 Epics in all of it. For me, it wasn't a big deal, I have everything in the Epic store, I actually broke down both tokens because there was nothing I could do with them. Still, for those that actually need these things, there is almost no chance of actually getting one.

    That's the final kick in the...shins. You can't sell them, trade them, gift them to someone else who really really wants one.

    I have all of the event ships too. I've been clinging to my 2 epics for years now in the hope that something good will be added. I'd break them down to UR for ship-X tokens except I know I might never get another epic. About the time I give in, Cryptic might add (( wonderful thing x )) to the Phoenix store.

  • corinthalascorinthalas Member Posts: 1,412 Arc User
    edited October 20
    The odds on the Epic Phoenix are frankly ridiculous.

    I am one of those people that builds up every alt, they all have Mark XV Epic Ground and Space.. I have 10 characters, so as you can imagine, I have opened thousands of Phoenix Prize Packs.

    The entire time, I have pulled 2 Epics in all of it. For me, it wasn't a big deal, I have everything in the Epic store, I actually broke down both tokens because there was nothing I could do with them. Still, for those that actually need these things, there is almost no chance of actually getting one.

    The Odds on the Epic tokens are the lowest of all the RnG in the game, and the odds are ridiculously low almost to the point of being insulting.

    With as rare as those epic tokens are, they could add all of the promo and lockbox ships to the epic prize list and not even make a dent in the potential audience for those ships. On the other hand, that would probably move an obscene amount of dilithium. If they could just add something worthwhile to do with the lower-tier vouchers, too.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 15,242 Arc User
    The odds on the Epic Phoenix are frankly ridiculous.

    I am one of those people that builds up every alt, they all have Mark XV Epic Ground and Space.. I have 10 characters, so as you can imagine, I have opened thousands of Phoenix Prize Packs.

    The entire time, I have pulled 2 Epics in all of it. For me, it wasn't a big deal, I have everything in the Epic store, I actually broke down both tokens because there was nothing I could do with them. Still, for those that actually need these things, there is almost no chance of actually getting one.

    The Odds on the Epic tokens are the lowest of all the RnG in the game, and the odds are ridiculously low almost to the point of being insulting.

    Again, am convinced the reason the odds for the Epic tokens are so abysmal was deliberate - it gives them an excuse to have the tokens as a bundle option despite the actual value of the token being almost impossible to determine.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 9,455 Arc User
    edited October 20
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Again, am convinced the reason the odds for the Epic tokens are so abysmal was deliberate - it gives them an excuse to have the tokens as a bundle option despite the actual value of the token being almost impossible to determine.

    It wouldn't shock me, but wasn't it several years later that bundles with tokens first appeared? I don't give Cryptic credit for being that cunning with their Evil Plans :)

  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 15,242 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Again, am convinced the reason the odds for the Epic tokens are so abysmal was deliberate - it gives them an excuse to have the tokens as a bundle option despite the actual value of the token being almost impossible to determine.

    It wouldn't shock me, but wasn't it several years later that bundles with tokens first appeared? I don't give Cryptic credit for being that cunning with their Evil Plans :)

    Yeah - I think its more the case that they realised the drop rate was abysmal and saw the oportunity to monetise that.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,663 Arc User
    That's the final kick in the...shins. You can't sell them, trade them, gift them to someone else who really really wants one.

    Yeah, that sucks.. it would have been nice to at least be able to gift them. I am sure that will never change though because they don't want them sold on the exchange because.. reasons. :lol:
    With as rare as those epic tokens are, they could add all of the promo and lockbox ships to the epic prize list and not even make a dent in the potential audience for those ships. On the other hand, that would probably move an obscene amount of dilithium. If they could just add something worthwhile to do with the lower-tier vouchers, too.

    That is a good idea and that's your problem. Ideas like this that would actually increase the value of Dilithium are ones that Cryptic has no interest in. Their talk about wanting to fix the exchange is just that.. talk. Empty words backed by nothing.
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Yeah - I think its more the case that they realised the drop rate was abysmal and saw the oportunity to monetise that.

    Hit it right on the head! :smile:
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  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,842 Arc User
    Real money is the only sink they're actively interesting in tapping.
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