If only they applied this design philosophy to full Carriers. There is no trade off, there is no choice, full carriers are just flat out worse in every single way with no special features over FDC’s. Its always a no brainer leads to STO being a no brainer for carriers.
I fully agree with the philosophy but it feels like the devs abandoned that philosophy when making support and full carriers.
Plus need need more 5 rear weapon ships.
That's directly because the FDC's originally only had one hangar (as a tradeoff): they were upgraded to having two, while the existing two-hangar carriers were left unchanged.
It wasn't that they "abandoned the philosophy" in designing the other carriers, it's that they broke the philosophy by giving the FDC's the second hangar after those other carriers already existed.
Then they brought out the big CStore Support Carriers pack and abandoned the philosophy yet again. Then they said they are aware of the problem and Carriers would be looked at end of last year which appears to have been abandoned. That big Cstore carrier release was the perfect time to fix carriers and instead they continued with the same old poor design philosophy they are following while talking on twitter about a completely different design philosophy then what they apear to be putting into practice.
Getting back on topic thought, I also mostly agree with him Borticus regarding the Legendary Ships too, simply as the D'deridex has:
Hull Modifier: 1.55
Shield Modifier: 1.15
I believe many would RETHINK not only these Ships, many older T5 Ships/Consoles if they added a passive ability to older T5 Consoles! Just to enhance them slightly, based on the ship!
> @smokebailey said: > Yep, my virtual me character uses, mainly the t6 Miranda, along with others, and I got it where the miranda can take a MEGA beating, and give a pretty mega beating as well....since I focus on staying alive, not mega, uber DPS, and I got plans for my AoY when it starts this year. Probably gonna use the Ranger.
If you ever need a Miranda sister ship to be your wingman, let me know. I fly with same concept. I will cover your Six as we take out the bad guys!
Ranger is a good ship. I am thinking of that or a Perseus for my AoY recruit for this year. I have not made up my mind yet.
I agree that tradeoffs are good, and that highly specialized ships are good. Both add variety.
The problem I see currently is when things like 2-hangar destroyers completely outclass carriers. They make at least tac carriers an example of shooting yourself in the foot, or fighting with one beam array un-equipped.
Pure carriers badly need a buff. Something like an extra +25% to pet health and damage (to pick a number at random), +50% to hangar recharge speed (much less useful to frigates though), or an extra hangar bay.
I really think many would RETHINK not only the Ships, yet also many of the older Consoles if they revisit and updated many older T5 Consoles to enhance them slightly. Doesn't need to be a lot, just something!
Also a good idea. Using console sets adds more variety to the game.
Pure carriers badly need a buff. Something like an extra +25% to pet health and damage (to pick a number at random), +50% to hangar recharge speed (much less useful to frigates though), or an extra hangar bay.
Perhaps not with the right traits. I would be happy to see +50% to Hangar recharge for Frigates. That would mean Frigates would benefit more from the Scrambled Fighters trait. Though without that trait it would be less useful to frigates.
If only they applied this design philosophy to full Carriers. There is no trade off, there is no choice, full carriers are just flat out worse in every single way with no special features over FDC’s. Its always a no brainer leads to STO being a no brainer for carriers.
I fully agree with the philosophy but it feels like the devs abandoned that philosophy when making support and full carriers.
Plus need need more 5 rear weapon ships.
That's directly because the FDC's originally only had one hangar (as a tradeoff): they were upgraded to having two, while the existing two-hangar carriers were left unchanged.
It wasn't that they "abandoned the philosophy" in designing the other carriers, it's that they broke the philosophy by giving the FDC's the second hangar after those other carriers already existed.
Then they brought out the big CStore Support Carriers pack and abandoned the philosophy yet again. Then they said they are aware of the problem and Carriers would be looked at end of last year which appears to have been abandoned. That big Cstore carrier release was the perfect time to fix carriers and instead they continued with the same old poor design philosophy they are following while talking on twitter about a completely different design philosophy then what they apear to be putting into practice.
I don't think the solution is particularly hard, you do it in two part update.
Part 1 : just make carriers all of them have 8 weapons. This will hurt tactical dreadnoughts so I suggest making them all dreadnought carriers. Warships I'm not sure what to do except remove the whole juggernaut subtype make them warships and give all warships a special weapon inbuilt weapon or ability, there aren't a ton of them so I don't think it be too hard.
Then after longer term development Part 2 : make a special full carrier pet buff or special attack commands (like the vanguard commands that effects all launched pets) make like 3 of them, with the basic engineer tactical science full carriers get all of them, ones like fight deck should only get 1 or 2 for having cruiser commands.
I'm in support to improve full/normal carriers in some way whether it be: a third hangar, another weapon slot, some innate ability that improves that carrier's pets et cetera just something that improves true-carrier experience & focused intent.
Towards the "special" ships remark I think it's all subjective & a constant balancing act & regardless of a ship's status if I think a ship or ships are worth the price I'll buy it, if not then I won't buy it.
With how I like to buy things though Cryptic likes to cram filler items/services into bundles to justify a higher price, it's marketing, so if I already have "X" amount of the filler up to a threshold I have no desire to buy something twice. I wonder why Cryptic don't offer options in these Legend bundles like the Mudd bundles, probably too much effort. At least then when buying I might have a choice I'd prefer over something I already have.
I think these Legos, DD & Scimi, look real nice. The added stats to the DD is good, not great or "legendary" but good, & to me the Scimi is a bit flat. The Scimi isn't bad by any means but is it worth the price of buying another if it isn't that much better than the normal T6 Scimi? To each their own on that decision.
I'm in support to improve full/normal carriers in some way whether it be: a third hangar, another weapon slot, some innate ability that improves that carrier's pets et cetera just something that improves true-carrier experience & focused intent.
Towards the "special" ships remark I think it's all subjective & a constant balancing act & regardless of a ship's status if I think a ship or ships are worth the price I'll buy it, if not then I won't buy it.
With how I like to buy things though Cryptic likes to cram filler items/services into bundles to justify a higher price, it's marketing, so if I already have "X" amount of the filler up to a threshold I have no desire to buy something twice. I wonder why Cryptic don't offer options in these Legend bundles like the Mudd bundles, probably too much effort. At least then when buying I might have a choice I'd prefer over something I already have.
I think these Legos, DD & Scimi, look real nice. The added stats to the DD is good, not great or "legendary" but good, & to me the Scimi is a bit flat. The Scimi isn't bad by any means but is it worth the price of buying another if it isn't that much better than the normal T6 Scimi? To each their own on that decision.
As much as I would love to see a 3rd hangar it could possibly be overpowered due to various trait interactions. Without traits it should be find.
My favorite idea so far is to create something like a secondary deflector slot only call it Communications Array. This Coms Array can either come in a version that boosts pets only or a half sci version that gives a smaller pet boost and half a secondary deflector boost for the sci/carriers.
. . . Oh, I'm sure people will buy it. But will they fly it. How often do you see a D'D in a TFO? I don't think I've ever seen one. That might change after this pack, but it won't change for long because the stats are so underwhelming and the ship is so unmaneuverable.
I actually see them quite often (maybe 20% of the time or more), and surprisingly most are not the basic T5s that people with no T6 ships might be stuck with. So people actually are deliberately getting and flying the fleet D'D, the D'Khellra (this is the most commonly used from I have seen), and the D'ridthau classes. And the D'Khellra has the same slug-slow turn rate as the T5s.
Personally, I am not a fan of the things (my favorite so far is the Faeht), or the other massive lumbering ships like the Fe'rang but that is just a matter of personal playstyle. I know people who like to plop down in the middle of the action and fight in every direction at once that use those kind of ships all the time. There is more to the game than just meta-compliant play.
A legendary ship with legendary pricing to match should absolutely be special, especially when in this pack both ships included are canon hero/villain ships shown on screen to be absolutely menacing.
Having choices and trade-offs would work if this game had an actual team strategy, and elite level content that isn't a literal DPS measuring stick demanding "do minimum 100K hull DPS or fail."
The game is about chase the DPS meta to access elite level content, in an environment constantly and rapidly "obsoleting" what you worked VERY hard ($$$) to earn in the first place. It's not about team play, coordination, healing, tanking, strategy, epic long engaging quests or any of the stuff that make MMOs function as massive multiplayer games.
Devs have always been completely out of touch with this half-broken casino, cause to them, it's functioning as designed and intended, even if the original game was not.
Devs: Provide the option to Turn OFF full screen flashes from enemy ship explosions
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A legendary ship with legendary pricing to match should absolutely be special, especially when in this pack both ships included are canon hero/villain ships shown on screen to be absolutely menacing.
Having choices and trade-offs would work if this game had an actual team strategy, and elite level content that isn't a literal DPS measuring stick demanding "do minimum 100K hull DPS or fail."
The game is about chase the DPS meta to access elite level content, in an environment constantly and rapidly "obsoleting" what you worked VERY hard ($$$) to earn in the first place. It's not about team play, coordination, healing, tanking, strategy, epic long engaging quests or any of the stuff that make MMOs function as massive multiplayer games.
Devs have always been completely out of touch with this half-broken casino, cause to them, it's functioning as designed and intended, even if the original game was not.
If they had more support of these two styles of play support and tanking, with stuff that increased the dps of dps chasers. Two things that would help tanking, increase damage and control abilities of elite mobs and make increasing agro items and abilities to be much more effective. Support needs more ways of buffing the whole party, and making it so control abilities increase dps more effectively then DPRM and another dps chaser to the whole group. To do this they probably with have to nerf quite a few things,as well as buff alot of things. This is delicate work and you know, much of the dps community would get pissed if DPRM was nerfed. But you need to nerf dps surviveability for sure, while increasing the ability for lower damage tanking ship to maintain aggro even outside of 10kms.
While rather blunt, I think @trekfangrrrl#6910 makes some very legitimate points in her response.
No she didn't. She didn't really say anything but whine. It sounds like an entitled child complaining. So because a ship pack is supposedly "expensive" or "inflated" to someone, they are entitled to decide how powerful the ships are? What relevance is price on the ships? Why should an "expensive" ship be more powerful than a "non expensive" ship? Doesn't the term Legendary apply to just the design itself? Or are people misinterpreting that as in terms of item level? Aren't these packs really for those of us with extra money to burn? For the purpose of vanity? Who said these packs are intended to give you an edge in combat? Why do some people think they should give you an edge combat wise? Because they are "expensive"?
I don't agree with everything she said but I can appreciate some of the sentiment. I'll stick with; When someone offers to sell me something, "legendary" my expectation extends, rightfully beyond, "mediocrity". I have been pleased with the quality of the legendary offerings to this point but the D'Dederidex fails to meet expectations either by precedent set by existing legendary ships, or as an improvement upon the existing ships it was copy pasted from. The crowning achievement that was a bit much was a passive aggressive rebuke/design lesson that seemed a contradiction of precisely what it justified.
Finally, you are not the only person on the forum with, "extra money" and you don't need to buy a ship to demonstrate your vanity. You're doing fine just doing you. If it makes you feel better keep flashing your imaginary wad around. You're a, "Legend". Some interpretations of what that entails may vary.
Everything @""trekfangrrrl#6910" said is 100% true. She is my new STO hero.
I hope this means that the player base is waking up what cryptic has done to this game the last 3 years. As far as I'm concerned since season 13 this game has self destructed. Bad decision after bad decision.
Lets go over a few:
1) Their strategy of making items super OP then nerfing them 6 months later after everybody has spent money creating builds around a console, ship and/or ship trait. The latest one was the trait that made carrier pets actually worthwhile to play. They nerfed the trait almost a year later and now carriers are meh again. TY.
2) Mudd's Scam Store. Selling items from 7 years ago that are absolutely useless for hundreds of dollars. Shameful. Even more so, they are now asking US for ideas for a new dilithium sink. LMFAO. Seriously???
3) X Upgrades (which is really just a albeit creative way of making T7 ships) is an obvious 10 dollar tax. IF THEY THINK THAT CURRENT SHIPS ARE TOO STRONG THEN WHY THE "X" UPGRADE? Why the endevours that give you all that extra crit and turn rate... at this point the HONEST TRUTH is that most elite players can get 400 DPS on T5 ships, even T4 if they wanted a challenge.
4) Legendary ship scams. Clearly they are just re-selling us the same old ships that are no better that the original T5s. Hilarious.
They are a complete waste of money. The Year of the Klingon legendary pack was a huge fail and I can roll my eyes when I see players wearing the ROBE OF SHAME.
5) Cryptic's hate for TORPS and PvP. The person behind this hate should be moved to another game. It makes no sense. Intel Tean and Exitus has ruined what is left of PvP. The Red Gravwell from the Fed Legendary pack is ridiculous, way too much Placate. Who wants to play a game when you can't fire your weapons? This is what Cryptic has made. They have made a game where you can't lock on weapons. But of course it is ok that all Intel ships can cloak and fire all weapons and have 99% intel team cloak uptime so that they basically are unbeatable. WAY TO GO CRYPTIC! That makes sense.
And now they say they want to sell us crappy ships?
I love it. You know, with the recent FX upgrades they have made the game unplayable for most Nvidia cards, They have lost the casual Grandpa players that were able to enjoy the game on their laptops. They do zero play testing so every time there is a new lockbox 95% of the stuff in it is junk and sijnce they don't play test it the stuff ends up breaking tthe game... sigh.
I just hope that the majority of the player base is finally waking up.
A legendary ship with legendary pricing to match should absolutely be special, especially when in this pack both ships included are canon hero/villain ships shown on screen to be absolutely menacing.
Having choices and trade-offs would work if this game had an actual team strategy, and elite level content that isn't a literal DPS measuring stick demanding "do minimum 100K hull DPS or fail."
The game is about chase the DPS meta to access elite level content, in an environment constantly and rapidly "obsoleting" what you worked VERY hard ($$$) to earn in the first place. It's not about team play, coordination, healing, tanking, strategy, epic long engaging quests or any of the stuff that make MMOs function as massive multiplayer games.
Devs have always been completely out of touch with this half-broken casino, cause to them, it's functioning as designed and intended, even if the original game was not.
THIS 100% *applause*
but after reading this tthread I don't see anything every going to change. The devs are the problem. This Borakus person is the problem. He needs to be moved to another game. Honestly this game is too broken. They have created a game, like you said is built around DPS and they have spent the last 3 years (since season 13) trying to destroy it while at the (this is the funny part) same time they are adding X upgrades, endeavours that add insane amount of skill points... nothing makes sense. The new game director wants to increase sales and yet this Borakus guy wants to sell more junk...
Players that just want rainbow vanity builds are the biggest problem, they play alone in between their own ears and dont want to get better or improve. They are here to sit at ESD and talk politics sigh. Young players join and leave this game because if they want to build a elite DPS/PvP ship it will cost them 2500 dollars LOL.
Fleets are pointless, event after event after event... yawn, just sign in for 15 mins, do your event and sign off to play other games... this is the reality.
I have a good idea for a dil sink they desperately want. Close the mudd's Scam sstore and put all of it in the phoenix box DUHHH!
They won't do it, they will more likely charge players dilithium to play TFOs )
I mean... make whatever ships you want, but don't expect them to sell. It's all very well and good to say you don't want power creep, or "pay to win" or whatever else, but most people aren't going to pay for something worse than what they've already got and won't rush to pay for more of what they've already got.
Right now the devs don't particularly build their ships around generating sales or making things interesting to the people who aren't paying. I'm not sure what they imagine they're doing, but hey.. saves some of us a lot of money to have them release undesirable trash.
You can show a minimum amount of respect by not using a wrong name when talking about someone.
And when everything that counts is top DPS, there is already a optimum choice in the game. When the new ship is better at it, there will be complaints that the devs power creep. There's no winners in this fight.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
You can show a minimum amount of respect by not using a wrong name when talking about someone.
And when everything that counts is top DPS, there is already a optimum choice in the game. When the new ship is better at it, there will be complaints that the devs power creep. There's no winners in this fight.
well clearly you have no idea what this thread is about. It is not about winning or losing, it is about solving problems.
2) Mudd's Scam Store. Selling items from 7 years ago that are absolutely useless for hundreds of dollars. Shameful. Even more so, they are now asking US for ideas for a new dilithium sink. LMFAO. Seriously???
4) Legendary ship scams. Clearly they are just re-selling us the same old ships that are no better that the original T5s. Hilarious.
They are a complete waste of money. The Year of the Klingon legendary pack was a huge fail and I can roll my eyes when I see players wearing the ROBE OF SHAME.
On average, it costs anywhere from $200 to $250 worth of keys to get a ship out of a lockbox. R&D pack ships are even more expensive. These ships are also only for a single character, and can't be reclaimed if discarded.
On the other hand, a full priced single Mudd's store ship costs $170, is account wide, and endlessly reclaimable. Even then, the full price is not the price Cryptic expects you to buy it at(they have even said so themselves). At a 50% discount that $170 goes down to only $85, anywhere from a 57% -> 66% discount of the original price from the locbkox. More if its an R&D ship. And again, its account wide and endlessly reclaimable, making it much more of a savings compared to the single character lockbox pulls.
Not only is it a significantly better deal, its also something people were asking for years for. I can't count how many times I saw people saying they would gladly pay 100+ dollars for account wide versions of these ships, especially big ones like the Connie, and now we get them with Mudd's and the Legendary ship packs. Which is probably why they keep doing so well that they can justify making more of them.
3) X Upgrades (which is really just a albeit creative way of making T7 ships) is an obvious 10 dollar tax. IF THEY THINK THAT CURRENT SHIPS ARE TOO STRONG THEN WHY THE "X" UPGRADE? Why the endevours that give you all that extra crit and turn rate... at this point the HONEST TRUTH is that most elite players can get 400 DPS on T5 ships, even T4 if they wanted a challenge.
X upgrades are by no means anywhere close to a T7 ship. A Proper T7 ship would have new/improved BOFF seating, extra HP/shields, other improved/changed stats, and new mechanics, none of which comes with an X upgrade. X upgrades are about as much of a T7 ship as the T5-Us were to a proper T6.
Endeavors exist because people like progression systems like reputations, since they give something for people to work for, but people have complained about there being too many reputations as is, and not wanting more. Endeavors are essentially an ultra long term reputation system replacement. Also, the vast majority of people who play MMOs are casuals, who only log on a few days a week, and aren't obsessively logging in to do endeavors every single day. I see far more people with endeavor rankings in the 100s then I do in the 500+. So a good chunk of the playerbase hasn't done enough of them to really get a lot of +crit and all that. Especially since what you can upgrade is randomized.
5) Cryptic's hate for TORPS and PvP. The person behind this hate should be moved to another game. It makes no sense. Intel Tean and Exitus has ruined what is left of PvP. The Red Gravwell from the Fed Legendary pack is ridiculous, way too much Placate. Who wants to play a game when you can't fire your weapons? This is what Cryptic has made. They have made a game where you can't lock on weapons. But of course it is ok that all Intel ships can cloak and fire all weapons and have 99% intel team cloak uptime so that they basically are unbeatable. WAY TO GO CRYPTIC! That makes sense.
PVP was dead long before the Intel spec was introduced. Mainly because the vast majority of the playerbase never cared for PVP in the first place, even when the game launched, since that isn't what Star trek is about. Cryptic was OK with adding those things because PVP was already dead, so they knew it would matter to a game mode pretty much no one played already. Cryptic doesn't hate PVP, the playerbase does. Cryptic just ignores PVP because the playerbase hates it.
Everything @""trekfangrrrl#6910" said is 100% true. She is my new STO hero.
I hope this means that the player base is waking up what cryptic has done to this game the last 3 years. As far as I'm concerned since season 13 this game has self destructed. Bad decision after bad decision...
And now they say they want to sell us crappy ships?
I love it. You know, with the recent FX upgrades they have made the game unplayable for most Nvidia cards, They have lost the casual Grandpa players that were able to enjoy the game on their laptops. They do zero play testing so every time there is a new lockbox 95% of the stuff in it is junk and sijnce they don't play test it the stuff ends up breaking tthe game... sigh.
I just hope that the majority of the player base is finally waking up.
From everything we have heard/been told not only has the DSC content bought in more people then even ViL, which itself was breaking records in that regards, the last three years have also been some of the game's most profitable.
So, if anything, it shows an already known trend in gaming in general, that forums are disproportionately filled with people who want to complain, whereas most of the playerbase who has no real issues with the game says nothing.
your point on the price of ships I can accept that argument and point of view... but honestly who does that? Who buys keys to open boxes with those type of low winning odds? Much cheaper is to just buy keys and sell on exchange for EC and buy the ship on exchange. So while you spend 2-300 dollars from Mudd's Scam store I'll spend 80% less and buy from the exchange thank you.
Also I wasn't speaking about ships. I clearly said they were selling ITEMS like consoles for 70 dollars and other useless items for hundreds of dollars. It is a complete rip off. Besides the stuff is USELESS! USELESS! Like the Cane from season 2 andf the boffs that come with it... seriously it is a rip off. They are selling stuff there that were FREE in the game, and that is ok of the prce was 5 or 10 dollars... but 70 to 130 dollars for garbage LMAOAOA
So yeah, I disagree with you. Mudd's Scam store is the biggest slap in the face but heh, if you like it then go crazy. I have an oil well to sell you in California.
While rather blunt, I think @trekfangrrrl#6910 makes some very legitimate points in her response.
No she didn't. She didn't really say anything but whine.
Completely disagree. I don't personally like the tone, but the actual points themselves are completely valid:
1: this is, by design, a combat focused game. That logically means people want their ships to be really good at what the game is, by design, focused on.
2: legendary bundles are very expensive, and partially because they include filler items that many people don't want or wouldn't choose to buy if they had the option to get the ships without the extra items. Because of the price, people logically expect the performance of the ships to justify the cost.
Side point: some people are trying to argue that "legendary" is not about performance but about a ship's status in the lore. My response is this: we already have T6 versions of most of these ships in game. We already have T6 versions of both the DD and Scimitar. So if it's just about the lore, they were already in game and already "legendary" enough as it was. The only motivation a person would have to buy yet another version of the same ship they already have is for a noticeable performance increase.
3: if the devs/Borticus think that not every ship needs to stand out and be special, that's fine. I understand the argument he's making. But he totally picked the wrong time/example to make it. Because if items 1 and 2 above, people logically and justifiably expect these high priced "legendary" ships to be high performers. They absolutely should be "special" and stand out. So if he/the devs want to design less impressive ships that's completely their prerogative, but they also can't expect them to be worth as much either.
So yeah, I would have expressed the points differently (as I did above), but the core points are all the same and I am in complete agreement.
So if he/the devs want to design less impressive ships that's completely their prerogative, but they also can't expect them to be worth as much either.
But they are special. Maybe not in the ways you deem 'acceptable,' but they *ARE* special.
You may not be aware, but Borticus is the one who suggested that not every ships should be "special":
2) Mudd's Scam Store. Selling items from 7 years ago that are absolutely useless for hundreds of dollars. Shameful. Even more so, they are now asking US for ideas for a new dilithium sink. LMFAO. Seriously???
4) Legendary ship scams. Clearly they are just re-selling us the same old ships that are no better that the original T5s. Hilarious.
They are a complete waste of money. The Year of the Klingon legendary pack was a huge fail and I can roll my eyes when I see players wearing the ROBE OF SHAME.
On average, it costs anywhere from $200 to $250 worth of keys to get a ship out of a lockbox. R&D pack ships are even more expensive. These ships are also only for a single character, and can't be reclaimed if discarded.
On the other hand, a full priced single Mudd's store ship costs $170, is account wide, and endlessly reclaimable. Even then, the full price is not the price Cryptic expects you to buy it at(they have even said so themselves). At a 50% discount that $170 goes down to only $85, anywhere from a 57% -> 66% discount of the original price from the locbkox. More if its an R&D ship. And again, its account wide and endlessly reclaimable, making it much more of a savings compared to the single character lockbox pulls.
Not only is it a significantly better deal, its also something people were asking for years for. I can't count how many times I saw people saying they would gladly pay 100+ dollars for account wide versions of these ships, especially big ones like the Connie, and now we get them with Mudd's and the Legendary ship packs. Which is probably why they keep doing so well that they can justify making more of them.
3) X Upgrades (which is really just a albeit creative way of making T7 ships) is an obvious 10 dollar tax. IF THEY THINK THAT CURRENT SHIPS ARE TOO STRONG THEN WHY THE "X" UPGRADE? Why the endevours that give you all that extra crit and turn rate... at this point the HONEST TRUTH is that most elite players can get 400 DPS on T5 ships, even T4 if they wanted a challenge.
X upgrades are by no means anywhere close to a T7 ship. A Proper T7 ship would have new/improved BOFF seating, extra HP/shields, other improved/changed stats, and new mechanics, none of which comes with an X upgrade. X upgrades are about as much of a T7 ship as the T5-Us were to a proper T6.
Endeavors exist because people like progression systems like reputations, since they give something for people to work for, but people have complained about there being too many reputations as is, and not wanting more. Endeavors are essentially an ultra long term reputation system replacement. Also, the vast majority of people who play MMOs are casuals, who only log on a few days a week, and aren't obsessively logging in to do endeavors every single day. I see far more people with endeavor rankings in the 100s then I do in the 500+. So a good chunk of the playerbase hasn't done enough of them to really get a lot of +crit and all that. Especially since what you can upgrade is randomized.
5) Cryptic's hate for TORPS and PvP. The person behind this hate should be moved to another game. It makes no sense. Intel Tean and Exitus has ruined what is left of PvP. The Red Gravwell from the Fed Legendary pack is ridiculous, way too much Placate. Who wants to play a game when you can't fire your weapons? This is what Cryptic has made. They have made a game where you can't lock on weapons. But of course it is ok that all Intel ships can cloak and fire all weapons and have 99% intel team cloak uptime so that they basically are unbeatable. WAY TO GO CRYPTIC! That makes sense.
PVP was dead long before the Intel spec was introduced. Mainly because the vast majority of the playerbase never cared for PVP in the first place, even when the game launched, since that isn't what Star trek is about. Cryptic was OK with adding those things because PVP was already dead, so they knew it would matter to a game mode pretty much no one played already. Cryptic doesn't hate PVP, the playerbase does. Cryptic just ignores PVP because the playerbase hates it.
Everything @""trekfangrrrl#6910" said is 100% true. She is my new STO hero.
I hope this means that the player base is waking up what cryptic has done to this game the last 3 years. As far as I'm concerned since season 13 this game has self destructed. Bad decision after bad decision...
And now they say they want to sell us crappy ships?
I love it. You know, with the recent FX upgrades they have made the game unplayable for most Nvidia cards, They have lost the casual Grandpa players that were able to enjoy the game on their laptops. They do zero play testing so every time there is a new lockbox 95% of the stuff in it is junk and sijnce they don't play test it the stuff ends up breaking tthe game... sigh.
I just hope that the majority of the player base is finally waking up.
From everything we have heard/been told not only has the DSC content bought in more people then even ViL, which itself was breaking records in that regards, the last three years have also been some of the game's most profitable.
So, if anything, it shows an already known trend in gaming in general, that forums are disproportionately filled with people who want to complain, whereas most of the playerbase who has no real issues with the game says nothing.
your point on the price of ships I can accept that argument and point of view... but honestly who does that? Who buys keys to open boxes with those type of low winning odds? Much cheaper is to just buy keys and sell on exchange for EC and buy the ship on exchange. So while you spend 2-300 dollars from Mudd's Scam store I'll spend 80% less and buy from the exchange thank you.
Also I wasn't speaking about ships. I clearly said they were selling ITEMS like consoles for 70 dollars and other useless items for hundreds of dollars. It is a complete rip off. Besides the stuff is USELESS! USELESS! Like the Cane from season 2 andf the boffs that come with it... seriously it is a rip off. They are selling stuff there that were FREE in the game, and that is ok of the prce was 5 or 10 dollars... but 70 to 130 dollars for garbage LMAOAOA
So yeah, I disagree with you. Mudd's Scam store is the biggest slap in the face but heh, if you like it then go crazy. I have an oil well to sell you in California.
Actually, a lot of people do buy keys and open those boxes or there would not be anything from them on the exchange to buy. It is a whale aspect of the game, just like Mudds that is not primarily for the majority of the playerbase, it is for the whales who for years called for a way to buy those old event and lockbox ships and didn't care too much what it cost as long as they could get the ships they wanted. If I had the money to burn (or the price was more reasonable to non-whales like me) I would get the Benthan cruiser since it was one of very few VOY ships I like, but Mudds is meant for whales not the average player.
The items, like the Ophidian Cane, are often rather niche (though not useless, I use the Cane I got from the event quite a bit since it fits the character's motif and it does work though either a buff or cooldown reduction would be nice since it has not kept up with power creep), but the bundles are meant more for OCD completionist whales than regular players so that niche utility is not much of a factor. Again, I would like it if they were more reasonably priced on sale but it is what it is.
As for the oil well in California, you must not know much about that state if you think oil wells are a thing of the past there. It is still a major oil producer, and in fact there are hundreds of wells right in the middle of downtown Los Angeles, the oil companies there are just really good at hiding the wells in plain sight. Ever hear of the la brea tar pits? Tar is one of the heaviest forms of crude oil so that is big clue to how much oil is there. This video shows some of the ways they have hidden the wells and how they figure into the economy:
Comments
Getting back on topic thought, I also mostly agree with him Borticus regarding the Legendary Ships too, simply as the D'deridex has:
I believe many would RETHINK not only these Ships, many older T5 Ships/Consoles if they added a passive ability to older T5 Consoles! Just to enhance them slightly, based on the ship!
Doesn't need to be a lot, just something!
> Yep, my virtual me character uses, mainly the t6 Miranda, along with others, and I got it where the miranda can take a MEGA beating, and give a pretty mega beating as well....since I focus on staying alive, not mega, uber DPS, and I got plans for my AoY when it starts this year. Probably gonna use the Ranger.
If you ever need a Miranda sister ship to be your wingman, let me know. I fly with same concept. I will cover your Six as we take out the bad guys!
Ranger is a good ship. I am thinking of that or a Perseus for my AoY recruit for this year. I have not made up my mind yet.
The problem I see currently is when things like 2-hangar destroyers completely outclass carriers. They make at least tac carriers an example of shooting yourself in the foot, or fighting with one beam array un-equipped.
Pure carriers badly need a buff. Something like an extra +25% to pet health and damage (to pick a number at random), +50% to hangar recharge speed (much less useful to frigates though), or an extra hangar bay.
Also a good idea. Using console sets adds more variety to the game.
I don't think the solution is particularly hard, you do it in two part update.
Part 1 : just make carriers all of them have 8 weapons. This will hurt tactical dreadnoughts so I suggest making them all dreadnought carriers. Warships I'm not sure what to do except remove the whole juggernaut subtype make them warships and give all warships a special weapon inbuilt weapon or ability, there aren't a ton of them so I don't think it be too hard.
Then after longer term development Part 2 : make a special full carrier pet buff or special attack commands (like the vanguard commands that effects all launched pets) make like 3 of them, with the basic engineer tactical science full carriers get all of them, ones like fight deck should only get 1 or 2 for having cruiser commands.
Towards the "special" ships remark I think it's all subjective & a constant balancing act & regardless of a ship's status if I think a ship or ships are worth the price I'll buy it, if not then I won't buy it.
With how I like to buy things though Cryptic likes to cram filler items/services into bundles to justify a higher price, it's marketing, so if I already have "X" amount of the filler up to a threshold I have no desire to buy something twice. I wonder why Cryptic don't offer options in these Legend bundles like the Mudd bundles, probably too much effort. At least then when buying I might have a choice I'd prefer over something I already have.
I think these Legos, DD & Scimi, look real nice. The added stats to the DD is good, not great or "legendary" but good, & to me the Scimi is a bit flat. The Scimi isn't bad by any means but is it worth the price of buying another if it isn't that much better than the normal T6 Scimi? To each their own on that decision.
My favorite idea so far is to create something like a secondary deflector slot only call it Communications Array. This Coms Array can either come in a version that boosts pets only or a half sci version that gives a smaller pet boost and half a secondary deflector boost for the sci/carriers.
I actually see them quite often (maybe 20% of the time or more), and surprisingly most are not the basic T5s that people with no T6 ships might be stuck with. So people actually are deliberately getting and flying the fleet D'D, the D'Khellra (this is the most commonly used from I have seen), and the D'ridthau classes. And the D'Khellra has the same slug-slow turn rate as the T5s.
Personally, I am not a fan of the things (my favorite so far is the Faeht), or the other massive lumbering ships like the Fe'rang but that is just a matter of personal playstyle. I know people who like to plop down in the middle of the action and fight in every direction at once that use those kind of ships all the time. There is more to the game than just meta-compliant play.
Having choices and trade-offs would work if this game had an actual team strategy, and elite level content that isn't a literal DPS measuring stick demanding "do minimum 100K hull DPS or fail."
The game is about chase the DPS meta to access elite level content, in an environment constantly and rapidly "obsoleting" what you worked VERY hard ($$$) to earn in the first place. It's not about team play, coordination, healing, tanking, strategy, epic long engaging quests or any of the stuff that make MMOs function as massive multiplayer games.
Devs have always been completely out of touch with this half-broken casino, cause to them, it's functioning as designed and intended, even if the original game was not.
No she didn't. She didn't really say anything but whine. It sounds like an entitled child complaining. So because a ship pack is supposedly "expensive" or "inflated" to someone, they are entitled to decide how powerful the ships are? What relevance is price on the ships? Why should an "expensive" ship be more powerful than a "non expensive" ship? Doesn't the term Legendary apply to just the design itself? Or are people misinterpreting that as in terms of item level? Aren't these packs really for those of us with extra money to burn? For the purpose of vanity? Who said these packs are intended to give you an edge in combat? Why do some people think they should give you an edge combat wise? Because they are "expensive"?
I don't agree with everything she said but I can appreciate some of the sentiment. I'll stick with; When someone offers to sell me something, "legendary" my expectation extends, rightfully beyond, "mediocrity". I have been pleased with the quality of the legendary offerings to this point but the D'Dederidex fails to meet expectations either by precedent set by existing legendary ships, or as an improvement upon the existing ships it was copy pasted from. The crowning achievement that was a bit much was a passive aggressive rebuke/design lesson that seemed a contradiction of precisely what it justified.
Finally, you are not the only person on the forum with, "extra money" and you don't need to buy a ship to demonstrate your vanity. You're doing fine just doing you. If it makes you feel better keep flashing your imaginary wad around. You're a, "Legend". Some interpretations of what that entails may vary.
Everything @""trekfangrrrl#6910" said is 100% true. She is my new STO hero.
I hope this means that the player base is waking up what cryptic has done to this game the last 3 years. As far as I'm concerned since season 13 this game has self destructed. Bad decision after bad decision.
Lets go over a few:
1) Their strategy of making items super OP then nerfing them 6 months later after everybody has spent money creating builds around a console, ship and/or ship trait. The latest one was the trait that made carrier pets actually worthwhile to play. They nerfed the trait almost a year later and now carriers are meh again. TY.
2) Mudd's Scam Store. Selling items from 7 years ago that are absolutely useless for hundreds of dollars. Shameful. Even more so, they are now asking US for ideas for a new dilithium sink. LMFAO. Seriously???
3) X Upgrades (which is really just a albeit creative way of making T7 ships) is an obvious 10 dollar tax. IF THEY THINK THAT CURRENT SHIPS ARE TOO STRONG THEN WHY THE "X" UPGRADE? Why the endevours that give you all that extra crit and turn rate... at this point the HONEST TRUTH is that most elite players can get 400 DPS on T5 ships, even T4 if they wanted a challenge.
4) Legendary ship scams. Clearly they are just re-selling us the same old ships that are no better that the original T5s. Hilarious.
They are a complete waste of money. The Year of the Klingon legendary pack was a huge fail and I can roll my eyes when I see players wearing the ROBE OF SHAME.
5) Cryptic's hate for TORPS and PvP. The person behind this hate should be moved to another game. It makes no sense. Intel Tean and Exitus has ruined what is left of PvP. The Red Gravwell from the Fed Legendary pack is ridiculous, way too much Placate. Who wants to play a game when you can't fire your weapons? This is what Cryptic has made. They have made a game where you can't lock on weapons. But of course it is ok that all Intel ships can cloak and fire all weapons and have 99% intel team cloak uptime so that they basically are unbeatable. WAY TO GO CRYPTIC! That makes sense.
And now they say they want to sell us crappy ships?
I love it. You know, with the recent FX upgrades they have made the game unplayable for most Nvidia cards, They have lost the casual Grandpa players that were able to enjoy the game on their laptops. They do zero play testing so every time there is a new lockbox 95% of the stuff in it is junk and sijnce they don't play test it the stuff ends up breaking tthe game... sigh.
I just hope that the majority of the player base is finally waking up.
THIS 100% *applause*
but after reading this tthread I don't see anything every going to change. The devs are the problem. This Borakus person is the problem. He needs to be moved to another game. Honestly this game is too broken. They have created a game, like you said is built around DPS and they have spent the last 3 years (since season 13) trying to destroy it while at the (this is the funny part) same time they are adding X upgrades, endeavours that add insane amount of skill points... nothing makes sense. The new game director wants to increase sales and yet this Borakus guy wants to sell more junk...
Players that just want rainbow vanity builds are the biggest problem, they play alone in between their own ears and dont want to get better or improve. They are here to sit at ESD and talk politics sigh. Young players join and leave this game because if they want to build a elite DPS/PvP ship it will cost them 2500 dollars LOL.
Fleets are pointless, event after event after event... yawn, just sign in for 15 mins, do your event and sign off to play other games... this is the reality.
I have a good idea for a dil sink they desperately want. Close the mudd's Scam sstore and put all of it in the phoenix box DUHHH!
They won't do it, they will more likely charge players dilithium to play TFOs
Right now the devs don't particularly build their ships around generating sales or making things interesting to the people who aren't paying. I'm not sure what they imagine they're doing, but hey.. saves some of us a lot of money to have them release undesirable trash.
And when everything that counts is top DPS, there is already a optimum choice in the game. When the new ship is better at it, there will be complaints that the devs power creep. There's no winners in this fight.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
well clearly you have no idea what this thread is about. It is not about winning or losing, it is about solving problems.
your point on the price of ships I can accept that argument and point of view... but honestly who does that? Who buys keys to open boxes with those type of low winning odds? Much cheaper is to just buy keys and sell on exchange for EC and buy the ship on exchange. So while you spend 2-300 dollars from Mudd's Scam store I'll spend 80% less and buy from the exchange thank you.
Also I wasn't speaking about ships. I clearly said they were selling ITEMS like consoles for 70 dollars and other useless items for hundreds of dollars. It is a complete rip off. Besides the stuff is USELESS! USELESS! Like the Cane from season 2 andf the boffs that come with it... seriously it is a rip off. They are selling stuff there that were FREE in the game, and that is ok of the prce was 5 or 10 dollars... but 70 to 130 dollars for garbage LMAOAOA
So yeah, I disagree with you. Mudd's Scam store is the biggest slap in the face but heh, if you like it then go crazy. I have an oil well to sell you in California.
Completely disagree. I don't personally like the tone, but the actual points themselves are completely valid:
1: this is, by design, a combat focused game. That logically means people want their ships to be really good at what the game is, by design, focused on.
2: legendary bundles are very expensive, and partially because they include filler items that many people don't want or wouldn't choose to buy if they had the option to get the ships without the extra items. Because of the price, people logically expect the performance of the ships to justify the cost.
Side point: some people are trying to argue that "legendary" is not about performance but about a ship's status in the lore. My response is this: we already have T6 versions of most of these ships in game. We already have T6 versions of both the DD and Scimitar. So if it's just about the lore, they were already in game and already "legendary" enough as it was. The only motivation a person would have to buy yet another version of the same ship they already have is for a noticeable performance increase.
3: if the devs/Borticus think that not every ship needs to stand out and be special, that's fine. I understand the argument he's making. But he totally picked the wrong time/example to make it. Because if items 1 and 2 above, people logically and justifiably expect these high priced "legendary" ships to be high performers. They absolutely should be "special" and stand out. So if he/the devs want to design less impressive ships that's completely their prerogative, but they also can't expect them to be worth as much either.
So yeah, I would have expressed the points differently (as I did above), but the core points are all the same and I am in complete agreement.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
You may not be aware, but Borticus is the one who suggested that not every ships should be "special":
Note his last sentence. He is clearly suggesting every ship should not be "special", otherwise none are.
So if you want to argue that every ship is in fact "special" in it's own way, then it's him you want to argue with, not me.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Actually, a lot of people do buy keys and open those boxes or there would not be anything from them on the exchange to buy. It is a whale aspect of the game, just like Mudds that is not primarily for the majority of the playerbase, it is for the whales who for years called for a way to buy those old event and lockbox ships and didn't care too much what it cost as long as they could get the ships they wanted. If I had the money to burn (or the price was more reasonable to non-whales like me) I would get the Benthan cruiser since it was one of very few VOY ships I like, but Mudds is meant for whales not the average player.
The items, like the Ophidian Cane, are often rather niche (though not useless, I use the Cane I got from the event quite a bit since it fits the character's motif and it does work though either a buff or cooldown reduction would be nice since it has not kept up with power creep), but the bundles are meant more for OCD completionist whales than regular players so that niche utility is not much of a factor. Again, I would like it if they were more reasonably priced on sale but it is what it is.
As for the oil well in California, you must not know much about that state if you think oil wells are a thing of the past there. It is still a major oil producer, and in fact there are hundreds of wells right in the middle of downtown Los Angeles, the oil companies there are just really good at hiding the wells in plain sight. Ever hear of the la brea tar pits? Tar is one of the heaviest forms of crude oil so that is big clue to how much oil is there. This video shows some of the ways they have hidden the wells and how they figure into the economy: