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Opinion: The Terran Empire, not strong enough

livinlifejb90#4082 livinlifejb90 Member Posts: 218 Arc User
Was doing Counterpoint and Badlands today and it struck me just how kind of boring they are. Not only that, but they still out there using Star Cruisers and OG Prometheuses. I think they need a little beefing up. Give them more current T6 ships, you know but their versions of them, and if they are not already using their own agony weaponry, they should be. I want to see a Terran Jupiter warp in, I want to have to fight their fighters. Give them Alitas and Guardians, etc. The fact that they are still using ships from like 5+ years ago is shaming. Let's bring them up to snuff. Let's make them a real challenge.

I know there's been talk among the devs of doing more mirror universe stuff in the near or moderately near future. Now is the time for the Terran Empire to be a real power to contend with, because right now, they are just so behind and its laughable.
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Comments

  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 2,659 Bug Hunter
    edited April 2021
    I'd be fine them using a few more modern ships, but adding more resistance and such might be fine for you; yet new players it will turn them off rather than encourage them to play more.

    That's the single hardest thing is getting new players engaged far more, and why phoenix packs came around to encourage more to use them during 2x events to level their gear. I'm not saying they won't do some of the things you suggest, like I do feel Terrans should use at least one Agony Phaser yet caution against too many more.

    Realize like the Vaudwaur in the Delta Quadrant with their Cluster Torpedoes, when your being hit by several ships suddenly you're easily overwhelmed especially when alone or just a single NPC (that sometimes yet not always) is even there to support you at all.

    Many Fleets do what they can to encourage and support their player base, yet the biggest challenge is keeping players engaged often.

    Just an opinion yet I think it's a good one.
    Post edited by strathkin on
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  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,928 Arc User
    I would love to see a scenario where the old (purple!) Terrans with their original ships (STO launch models, ideally a bit touched up) would fight Leeta's (red) Terrans who use more modern ships and the players in the middle.​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    Lets eliminate the one place in the game we can see classic TNG era inspired designs reliably? No thanks.

    This game was founded on that era. It has since become nearly unrecognizable as such.

    By all means, make a new zone for Disco rep with ST:D designs populating it from that era of the MU. I have no problem with that.
  • paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,369 Arc User
    I wouldn't mind if they added Terran Empire Mini-Faction for Feds, where you kill Mirror Taggart and start with a Terran version of the Miranda Class do a couple of missions in MU sector space dealing with the Klingon-Cardassian alliance then get sent to the prime universe as an infiltrator.
  • ussvaliant2#1952 ussvaliant2 Member Posts: 358 Arc User
    They even use the ugly Nova skin from launch. Terrans must be desperate for ships
    https://i.imgur.com/r6F7yxj.jpeg
  • metaliantmetaliant Member Posts: 55 Arc User
    I have similar thoughts as I was playing in the Badlands and playing the Cardassin story arc with my Discovery charactor and just felt that the ships were a bit outdated. Recently I thought about it and do have a question, if Leeta is a Bajoran, then how did she rise so high in the Terran Empire?
    OH MY GOD THEY KILLED JIM KIRK
    YOU TRIBBLE
  • metaliantmetaliant Member Posts: 55 Arc User
    metaliant wrote: »
    I have similar thoughts as I was playing in the Badlands and playing the Cardassin story arc with my Discovery charactor and just felt that the ships were a bit outdated. Recently I thought about it and do have a question, if Leeta is a Bajoran, then how did she rise so high in the Terran Empire?
    Same way Spock managed to become emperor as a Vulcan.

    Those who have the vision to reach for power can achieve power in the Terran Empire, regardless of species. And if you kill enough people... who is left to say no to you taking the position?

    It also helps that, after the player returns the orb to Mirror Bajor, it sets off a series of events that allows Mirror Leeta to make contact with the Pah-Wraiths, and gain some magical powers.

    Didn't really think of that. I did wonder about the orb business as well. I try not to think too much think too much as I get migraines wen I think.
    OH MY GOD THEY KILLED JIM KIRK
    YOU TRIBBLE
  • paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,369 Arc User
    metaliant wrote: »
    I have similar thoughts as I was playing in the Badlands and playing the Cardassin story arc with my Discovery charactor and just felt that the ships were a bit outdated. Recently I thought about it and do have a question, if Leeta is a Bajoran, then how did she rise so high in the Terran Empire?
    Same way Spock managed to become emperor as a Vulcan.

    Those who have the vision to reach for power can achieve power in the Terran Empire, regardless of species. And if you kill enough people... who is left to say no to you taking the position?

    It also helps that, after the player returns the orb to Mirror Bajor, it sets off a series of events that allows Mirror Leeta to make contact with the Pah-Wraiths, and gain some magical powers.

    weird thing is that Bajorans are a newer member of the Terran Empire, while Vulcans been conquered by the Terrans since day 1, the Terrans wouldn't have an empire if it weren't for the Vulcans, also MU Spock is half Terran so it makes more sense that he would quickly be promoted.
  • jrdobbsjr#3264 jrdobbsjr Member Posts: 431 Arc User
    metaliant wrote: »
    I have similar thoughts as I was playing in the Badlands and playing the Cardassin story arc with my Discovery charactor and just felt that the ships were a bit outdated. Recently I thought about it and do have a question, if Leeta is a Bajoran, then how did she rise so high in the Terran Empire?

    I figured the Bajorans backed O'Brien and the other humans when they captured Terok Nor and began the war to retake the Empire...a period in time where the humans desperately needed all the help they could get. Those races astute enough to back the winning horse that early were deemed politically reliable and got rewarded with a place in the reconstituted Empire as more or less "honorary humans". In the various STO plotlines Empire officers tend to honor their perceived obligations even if they are psychotic killers so it makes sense to me.
  • metaliantmetaliant Member Posts: 55 Arc User
    metaliant wrote: »
    I have similar thoughts as I was playing in the Badlands and playing the Cardassin story arc with my Discovery charactor and just felt that the ships were a bit outdated. Recently I thought about it and do have a question, if Leeta is a Bajoran, then how did she rise so high in the Terran Empire?

    I figured the Bajorans backed O'Brien and the other humans when they captured Terok Nor and began the war to retake the Empire...a period in time where the humans desperately needed all the help they could get. Those races astute enough to back the winning horse that early were deemed politically reliable and got rewarded with a place in the reconstituted Empire as more or less "honorary humans". In the various STO plotlines Empire officers tend to honor their perceived obligations even if they are psychotic killers so it makes sense to me.

    Bajorans are/were in an alliance with the Klingons and CArdassins, so it's odd that they would back the Terrans but you never know, things can change in 30 years I suppose.
    OH MY GOD THEY KILLED JIM KIRK
    YOU TRIBBLE
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 56,066 Community Moderator
    Well... their ship building capability is "impressive" to say the least.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 4,494 Arc User
    The mirror universe is one of those things that don't hold up well to close scrutiny, it was rather shaky even as a one-off. The trick is not to think about it much and just go with the flow.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    edited April 2021
    I think they need a little beefing up.

    I totally agree. The only problem is, I have heard several players complain that they avoid the Badlands because they find it too difficult. Compared to the other popular Space BZ (Undine) it's considerably more challenging and it apparently tends to overwhelm some players. I personally agree with you that they need a buff, but I am admittedly out of touch with the plight of the new and under geared player. While some of us would like to see more challenge from the Terrans, I fear that we're not the majority.
    Lets eliminate the one place in the game we can see classic TNG era inspired designs reliably? No thanks.

    Again, I agree. I like that these ships are represented through the Terran Empire, these ships should be plenty powerful and the older designs would not have to be removed in order to make a power boost feasible.
    This game was founded on that era. It has since become nearly unrecognizable as such.

    Disagreed, the game is about the entirety of the Star Trek universe and one of it's strengths is that all the eras are represented. There has never been any mandate that TNG be the dominant representation nor should there be.

    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 56,066 Community Moderator
    The main challenge of the Terran Empire in space is the fact that they have a wider range of abilities to use than most other enemy groups, thanks to the wide range of ship types that they have that have native abilities. Vesta, Intrepid, Armatage, Galaxy, Sovereign, ect.
    Not only do they have some BOff abilities they use against us, they have all those C-Store abilities because they share the same AI as Federation. With so many abilities that are normally NOT aimed at a player, it can be difficult to counter. Also the Torp Spreads hit HARD.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 4,491 Arc User
    I can't see an empire, who scheme against each other, and assassinate each other...and that other stuff, being able to last long.
    dvZq2Aj.jpg
  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 4,491 Arc User
    Was doing Counterpoint and Badlands today and it struck me just how kind of boring they are. Not only that, but they still out there using Star Cruisers and OG Prometheuses. I think they need a little beefing up. Give them more current T6 ships, you know but their versions of them, and if they are not already using their own agony weaponry, they should be. I want to see a Terran Jupiter warp in, I want to have to fight their fighters. Give them Alitas and Guardians, etc. The fact that they are still using ships from like 5+ years ago is shaming. Let's bring them up to snuff. Let's make them a real challenge.

    I know there's been talk among the devs of doing more mirror universe stuff in the near or moderately near future. Now is the time for the Terran Empire to be a real power to contend with, because right now, they are just so behind and its laughable.

    What ship's that in your banny? o.o
    dvZq2Aj.jpg
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    I think they need a little beefing up.

    I totally agree. The only problem is, I have heard several players complain that they avoid the Badlands because they find it too difficult. Compared to the other popular Space BZ (Undine) it's considerably more challenging and it apparently tends to overwhelm some players. I personally agree with you that they need a buff, but I am admittedly out of touch with the plight of the new and under geared player. While some of us would like to see more challenge from the Terrans, I fear that we're not the majority.

    Every science ship runs feedback pulse, a few run some NPC-bonus-powered shield stripping powers, and the escorts have a fairly absurd ability that does a massive amount of damage in a short time (point defense console I think), although that one is far deadlier in advanced queues where Terrans show up. The plasma control stations are also big hitters with a lot of HP, if you have to handle the thing alone, and the other point with the Nebulas we can never stop hearing about are incredibly frustrating to capture solo for the way it moves around while a build that has directional firepower has to awkwardly reposition to try and intercept the constantly spawning ships.

    Those are things I noticed going in on weaker characters, so I imagine they are what give people trouble.
  • paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,369 Arc User
    I wouldn't mind if they added Terran Empire Mini-Faction for Feds, where you kill Mirror Taggart and start with a Terran version of the Miranda Class do a couple of missions in MU sector space dealing with the Klingon-Cardassian alliance then get sent to the prime universe as an infiltrator.

    I still think that making them into a playable Mini-Fed faction, would make the Terran Empire powerful again, seeing as we might get a Terran Empire themed arc after the Klingon civil war.
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,265 Arc User
    I can't see an empire, who scheme against each other, and assassinate each other...and that other stuff, being able to last long.
    That's one of the few things I liked of DSC S3, that the Empire eventually completely collapsed, especially without external help, since it was usually how it managed to get some victories, by getting some help from another era/universe and then resting on their laurels.

    In its ENT-era, it almost got destroyed until the future Defiant showed up and turned the tide for about a century. In its DS9-era, it was flat-out conquered and remained as a resistance until they got themselves an efficient Defiant-class. In the STO-era, it recovered enough, and then became a threat again due to a Prime-Changeling intervention and an Orb, and later an even bigger threat due to future temporal tech, agents and meddling with their entire reality with them.
    But as usual, it seems the Terran Empire is all about taking an opportunity, using it, but NOT improving it or developing from it until they find themselves behind everyone else.

    I could definitely imagine the proto-Terran Empire getting 1940s tech during the Civil War to easily win, and then, they decide to try to invade the Prime Universe with a slightly improved tech from what they got... in 2020, where their forces are easily wiped out by a few drone strikes.
    #TASforSTO
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  • jrdobbsjr#3264 jrdobbsjr Member Posts: 431 Arc User
    > @metaliant said:
    > Bajorans are/were in an alliance with the Klingons and CArdassins, so it's odd that they would back the Terrans but you never know, things can change in 30 years I suppose.

    The Intendant, to me at least, seemed more of a vassal of the Klingon Emperor than an Allied leader. Once she and Worf were deposed, the humans were their best shot at regaining any measure of independence, not to mention staving off Klingon retribution for what happened to Worf. Taking down an Emperor would be a major humiliation for the Klingons...they would want revenge.
  • livinlifejb90#4082 livinlifejb90 Member Posts: 218 Arc User
    edited April 2021
    Was doing Counterpoint and Badlands today and it struck me just how kind of boring they are. Not only that, but they still out there using Star Cruisers and OG Prometheuses. I think they need a little beefing up. Give them more current T6 ships, you know but their versions of them, and if they are not already using their own agony weaponry, they should be. I want to see a Terran Jupiter warp in, I want to have to fight their fighters. Give them Alitas and Guardians, etc. The fact that they are still using ships from like 5+ years ago is shaming. Let's bring them up to snuff. Let's make them a real challenge.

    I know there's been talk among the devs of doing more mirror universe stuff in the near or moderately near future. Now is the time for the Terran Empire to be a real power to contend with, because right now, they are just so behind and its laughable.

    What ship's that in your banny? o.o

    @smokebailey

    It's a Star Cruiser. Kit bashed using the Sentinel saucer. Vanguard pylons, and the Nomad (fleet version) hull and nacelles.
    gQytlm7.jpg
  • livinlifejb90#4082 livinlifejb90 Member Posts: 218 Arc User
    Was doing Counterpoint and Badlands today and it struck me just how kind of boring they are. Not only that, but they still out there using Star Cruisers and OG Prometheuses. I think they need a little beefing up. Give them more current T6 ships, you know but their versions of them, and if they are not already using their own agony weaponry, they should be. I want to see a Terran Jupiter warp in, I want to have to fight their fighters. Give them Alitas and Guardians, etc. The fact that they are still using ships from like 5+ years ago is shaming. Let's bring them up to snuff. Let's make them a real challenge.

    I know there's been talk among the devs of doing more mirror universe stuff in the near or moderately near future. Now is the time for the Terran Empire to be a real power to contend with, because right now, they are just so behind and its laughable.

    What ship's that in your banny? o.o

    @smokebailey

    Hey, its a Star Cruiser kitbash:

    Nomad (fleet) hull
    Nomad nacelles
    Sentinel saucer
    Vanguard pylons
    gQytlm7.jpg
  • therealblackkaostherealblackkaos Member Posts: 121 Arc User
    For The Badlands, the end part where you have to “repel the invasion”, it seems as if they need to scale the amount of ships to those in zone. Increase the number of capital ships. Create a supersized dreadnought for players to sink their teeth into. More of the frigates and escorts to run havoc. It’s obvious that there’s going to be a lot of players at the end so scale it up accordingly. Same for any of the other zones that have these type of “beat them back” missions that suffer from the same problem in my opinion.
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