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Been rewatching, and I'm confused.

livinlifejb90#4082 livinlifejb90 Member Posts: 218 Arc User
Where does this game stand in terms of canon?

Clearly it's content must be approved. I ask because of Hobus.

Hobus is never named on screen. And now Picard has retconned Hobus's very existence and instead it's the Romulan sun that goes supernova. So then why is Hobus not reconned in the game? Or is Hobus meant to be "the Romulan sun"? Except it's implied that Hobus and the Romulan sun are two different stars.

They have removed npc's from the game because they died on screen. So clearly they don't avoid editing the game when the tv/movie canon changes something.

So why does Hobus still exist in game, and named as the star that kills Romulus? Seems like a big discrepancy, unless the game is its own different reality where Hobus exists and did what it did.
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Comments

  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 9,997 Arc User
    STO is not itself canon.

    STO follows canon at the time that episodes are created. I've never heard Cryptic staff say that all existing episodes must be updated immediately to match the recon of the week.

    Episodes being re-worked might be changed to match current canon, or not.

    Re-working episodes takes time, time that could be spent on creating new content.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 4,493 Arc User
    The name "Hobus" came from Paramount as part of the Kelvin timeline movie. While the name itself isn't mentioned in dialog it was originally in the script and was used in the official tie-in comic "Countdown". Technically PIC doesn't actually change that since they don't name the star that went supernova, they just say it was a "Romulan Star", not specifically their home system star.

    PIC did have the opportunity to eliminate the nonsense since the timing would have worked perfectly well had the capital system's star been a distant binary with the stars several light months away from each other, but they apparently chose to go the silly B-grade movie route with the FTL supernova so Hobus is as good as any.
  • vanhyovanhyo Member Posts: 195 Arc User
    movies are mess too, even within the same series

  • lordmalak1lordmalak1 Member Posts: 4,673 Arc User
    Ya, STO cannot be canon since the Klingon homeworld still exists where the Romulan one doesn't. In the game Praxis never exploded (per mainline canon) and Romulus is gone via the Iconians instead of the Romulan sun going nova (kelvin timeline canon).
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    It's not canon because it's not a film, TV show, or web series. That's all there is to it.

    In terms of continuity it mainly follows the TV/film continuity up until 'Nemesis' then presents an alternate future that doesn't match the KT or PIC.
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    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    SImple answer.. Star Trek Online is what’s referred to as ‘Soft Canon.’

    Simply put, it’s canon until an official source like a show or movie over rides it. People will nit pick and complain because it’s what they do.. but rather they like it or not, it’s canon until an actual canon source says otherwise. In the case of a Movie or TV Show vs the game.. the Show/Movie story is the accepted canon.
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    SImple answer.. Star Trek Online is what’s referred to as ‘Soft Canon.’

    Simply put, it’s canon until an official source like a show or movie over rides it. People will nit pick and complain because it’s what they do.. but rather they like it or not, it’s canon until an actual canon source says otherwise. In the case of a Movie or TV Show vs the game.. the Show/Movie story is the accepted canon.

    It's not canon in the slightest no matter if it's overridden or not. It's a game not a film, TV show, or Web series. There is not soft or hard canon in Trek. There's the canonical works then every other licenced product that's not canon.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    edited March 2021
    artan42 wrote: »
    SImple answer.. Star Trek Online is what’s referred to as ‘Soft Canon.’

    Simply put, it’s canon until an official source like a show or movie over rides it. People will nit pick and complain because it’s what they do.. but rather they like it or not, it’s canon until an actual canon source says otherwise. In the case of a Movie or TV Show vs the game.. the Show/Movie story is the accepted canon.

    It's not canon in the slightest no matter if it's overridden or not. It's a game not a film, TV show, or Web series. There is not soft or hard canon in Trek. There's the canonical works then every other licenced product that's not canon.

    Sure, they write this stuff using a license from CBS and close coordination with the writers.. but hey.. some guy on a web forum says it’s not canon so that over rides everything. :lol:

    When you’re done here, why don’t you lecture us all on what is and isn’t ‘Trek,’ since apparently.. you’re the authority on everything.
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    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    artan42 wrote: »
    SImple answer.. Star Trek Online is what’s referred to as ‘Soft Canon.’

    Simply put, it’s canon until an official source like a show or movie over rides it. People will nit pick and complain because it’s what they do.. but rather they like it or not, it’s canon until an actual canon source says otherwise. In the case of a Movie or TV Show vs the game.. the Show/Movie story is the accepted canon.

    It's not canon in the slightest no matter if it's overridden or not. It's a game not a film, TV show, or Web series. There is not soft or hard canon in Trek. There's the canonical works then every other licenced product that's not canon.

    Sure, they write this stuff using a license from CBS and close coordination with the writers.. but hey.. some guy on a web forum says it’s not canon so that over rides everything. :lol:

    When you’re done here, why don’t you lecture us all on what is and isn’t ‘Trek,’ since apparently.. you’re the authority on everything.

    All you had to say was that you don't know what canon means and leave it at that. There was no need the then go on further explaining that you don't have a clue.

    I suggest you go look it up as you think you know better than CBS as to how they manage their own product.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    edited March 2021
    Right, allow me to correct myself then for the OP..

    Canon is completely dictated by what random people on a web forum say. When there is a case of two posters that have different opinions, the person with the higher post count determines canon. :lol:

    All jokes aside.. one thing that will be universally accepted.. what you see on your screen, rather it's a show or a movie is always the accepted 'canon.' Everything else is debatable.. at best.
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    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,861 Arc User
    lordmalak1 wrote: »
    Ya, STO cannot be canon since the Klingon homeworld still exists where the Romulan one doesn't. In the game Praxis never exploded (per mainline canon) and Romulus is gone via the Iconians instead of the Romulan sun going nova (kelvin timeline canon).
    Qo'noS was not "destroyed" when Praxis exploded, due to the actions of the Excelsior in providing emergency relief. (Praxis is quite gone in STO, as that's the source of the asteroids orbiting Qo'noS today.)

    Romulus was, according to the '09 movie, destroyed by a massive wavefront from the supernova of the star known as Hobus, a wavefront that endangered the entire quadrant until Spock managed to stop it with a red-matter singularity. How a supernova can be a threat more than a few lightyears away, and how a single singularity (say that five times fast with marbles in your mouth, and you'll never need a dentist again!) could stop it, were not explained in canon. (STO explains the wavefront by blaming it on a device created by the Iconians, and used by their agent Hakeev.) The Iconians did not directly destroy Romulus, as this happened during the period when they were still lying low and working through agents and simulated ships, trying to pit the various forces in the Alpha and Beta quadrants against one another so they'd be weaker when the Heralds struck.

    Did you watch the movies, or just read synopses? For that matter, did you play through the relevant story in the Romulan Mystery arc, where you go to Hobus to investigate?
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  • vanhyovanhyo Member Posts: 195 Arc User
    ok but can you explain the torpedo count ?
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 56,066 Community Moderator
    Voyager originally left with that amount of torpedos. They figured out how to replicate the components to make more, and probably traded for any parts they couldn't replicate easily. If they can build the Delta Flyer, and her replacement, by themselves... they can make new torpedos just fine.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,861 Arc User
    edited March 2021
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Voyager originally left with that amount of torpedos. They figured out how to replicate the components to make more, and probably traded for any parts they couldn't replicate easily. If they can build the Delta Flyer, and her replacement, by themselves... they can make new torpedos just fine.
    Which would be fine - if Janeway hadn't specifically stated that they had "no way to make more" in the pilot, and never mentioned it again (not even a throwaway line about "how's that new replicator lab going? Can they make torpedoes yet?").

    According to an interview with Ron Moore, who was a writer for VOY at the time, this was a choice on the part of Berman and Braga as showrunners. He cited as his reason for leaving the time he brought them a pitch explaining how the crew started making replacements for "irreplaceable" parts, only to be told that this is Star Trek, and he wasn't to worry about such things. (This also explains why when Ron was executive-producing the Battlestar Galactica reboot, he addressed scarcities, and had episodes about how they were dealt with - which generally led down the line to repercussions and developments, like the water shortage from "Water" leading to using convicted criminals as water miners on ice-rich planetoids, which in turn led to former political terrorist Tom Zarek being elected President.)
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 56,066 Community Moderator
    Perhaps. But in the meantime we'll just have to say they figured it out off screen, just like they repair the ship off screen every week.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • truewarpertruewarper Member Posts: 910 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    lordmalak1 wrote: »
    Ya, STO cannot be canon since the Klingon homeworld still exists where the Romulan one doesn't. In the game Praxis never exploded (per mainline canon) and Romulus is gone via the Iconians instead of the Romulan sun going nova (kelvin timeline canon).
    Qo'noS was not "destroyed" when Praxis exploded, due to the actions of the Excelsior in providing emergency relief. (Praxis is quite gone in STO, as that's the source of the asteroids orbiting Qo'noS today.)

    Romulus was, according to the '09 movie, destroyed by a massive wavefront from the supernova of the star known as Hobus, a wavefront that endangered the entire quadrant until Spock managed to stop it with a red-matter singularity. How a supernova can be a threat more than a few lightyears away, and how a single singularity (say that five times fast with marbles in your mouth, and you'll never need a dentist again!) could stop it, were not explained in canon. (STO explains the wavefront by blaming it on a device created by the Iconians, and used by their agent Hakeev.) The Iconians did not directly destroy Romulus, as this happened during the period when they were still lying low and working through agents and simulated ships, trying to pit the various forces in the Alpha and Beta quadrants against one another so they'd be weaker when the Heralds struck.

    Did you watch the movies, or just read synopses? For that matter, did you play through the relevant story in the Romulan Mystery arc, where you go to Hobus to investigate?

    Ah, the suppose destruction of the Beta Quadrant, first thrown around from Bad Robot supposedly (they wanted to have their own universe outright, and haver no more reference to the old), but that was corrected by CBS supposedly to a star's system sun.

    As BR got the film license to use an alternate form of TREK, they were not licensed to redo from scratch of their own making.

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  • nrobbiecnrobbiec Member Posts: 917 Arc User
    It's possible Eisn was pending going nova which the evacuation was for and then the Iconians detonated Hobus with their unexpected and unnatural subspace supernova to catch everyone by surprise.
  • ozwynozwyn Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    Since Voyager kept running into species with torpedos, it would not be impossible to assume they traded for them, or even scavenged parts from any ships they fought and destroyed. Maybe Janeway had a little inner pirate sneaking out when the cameras were off..
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,861 Arc User
    ozwyn wrote: »
    Since Voyager kept running into species with torpedos, it would not be impossible to assume they traded for them, or even scavenged parts from any ships they fought and destroyed. Maybe Janeway had a little inner pirate sneaking out when the cameras were off..
    It would not be impossible, no. My point, however, is that onscreen they contradicted their "canon", leaving us to fanwank explanations. Lot of that going on in Star Trek as a whole, so any time anyone claims something "contradicts canon", I drink. (Coffee. I don't do stronger intoxicants.)
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  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 2,659 Bug Hunter
    edited March 2021
    jonsills wrote: »
    My point, however, is that onscreen they contradicted their "canon", leaving us to fanwank explanations. Lot of that going on in Star Trek as a whole, so any time anyone claims something "contradicts canon", I drink. (Coffee. I don't do stronger intoxicants.)

    Yea, and I think they sometimes do that to leave a little mystery behind it, although I didn't think every fight they used Torp's; but yes they certainly did some of the time. Though several times we did see them trading of exchanging various components, perhaps not weapons directly, yet it's possible Science and Engineering place priorities on items that help them replenish or make the required components or items.

    As for your last comment, hopefully you enjoy the Elven kind, made by Vulcan's, though I've heard Romulan's sometimes make a a few more powerful light roast blend. Vulcan's seem to enjoy the Dark variety, I think cause it cuts down on the Caffeine. :)
    Post edited by strathkin on
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  • paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,368 Arc User
    edited March 2021
    jonsills wrote: »
    ozwyn wrote: »
    Since Voyager kept running into species with torpedos, it would not be impossible to assume they traded for them, or even scavenged parts from any ships they fought and destroyed. Maybe Janeway had a little inner pirate sneaking out when the cameras were off..
    It would not be impossible, no. My point, however, is that onscreen they contradicted their "canon", leaving us to fanwank explanations. Lot of that going on in Star Trek as a whole, so any time anyone claims something "contradicts canon", I drink. (Coffee. I don't do stronger intoxicants.)

    Like often wrong Spock, the later shows seem to contradict him a lot, still waiting for Romulans to be savage and warlike, also the fact about Romulan emotions being not as explosive as Captain Kirk's despite Romulans aka Emotional Vulcans refusing to give up their passions and Vulcans claiming that their emotion are more extreme than an average human, to this day I have yet to see a Romulan that can give Kirk a run for his money.
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