> @coldnapalm said: > (Quote) > > I do it sometimes for the fun of it and not even run a combatlog. Sometimes blowing up helpless borg is just what you wanna do.
Exactly. Still the same joy from back at the day when we had no parsers around.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I usually do not leave, because even tho I hate these queues, it wouldn't be fair to the other members of my team - of course, from time to time it happens that 3 people leave and at that point there's really no point in trying to finish it.
What seems clear here is that, once again, people see time-gated, repetitive and infinite-wave queues as having "mechanics" and think that having a "DPS check" equals dining with the evil incarnate. When in reality, neither of those things are true.
These people should go do some serious raiding in any of the many MMORPGs that actually *have* raids. They'd learn a thing or two, but I guess it's easy to just go into every thread and TRIBBLE on people that think TRIBBLE like "Defense of Starbase 1" is actually a queue that requires team work... and that's just one example of MANY.
Hell, this new STF is just more time-gated afking drivel.
The problem though is that when there is something with actual mechanics... some just see enemy mobs and go "we just need to pew pew and win". I once took part in the ground competetive queue, and got stuck over the FIRST mechanic because the rest of my team was content to just shoot the infinitely spawning enemies on the other side of the chasm as if it would solve everything. I even tried to tell them to push the button so I could cross... but nope. Kill all the things and leave me standing on an invisible path with no way to cheese the system myself. Suffice to say... my team never even beat the FIRST puzzle that run. And it was the classic invisible floor puzzle too! Apparently no one knew how to push a button!
Its probably easier sometimes to see this in Core Assault or Twin Tribulations, where some may elect to just fight rather than do the mechanic in order to progress.
I'm not saying that's not the case because, obviously, it is. Another good example is Assault on Terok Nor - particularly, the fight against Leeta at the end.
But the solution is not, or shouldn't be, to simply produce more idiotic queues where team work is not required, the enemies just spawn in wave after wave until an invisible timer runs it course and the queue is over.
People must be educated on how to follow mechanics by using the appropriate tactics - yes, more than one tactic if the queue is done well enough to accomodate for more than a single team composition - not just fed more "pew pew pew, done" drivel.
But that is not happening. And after awhile, when people end up always in the same queues doing nothing more than "pew pew pew, done"... you think they're gonna believe there's anything more to be done in ANY other queue, if they happen do find themselves in them?
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
I usually do not leave, because even tho I hate these queues, it wouldn't be fair to the other members of my team - of course, from time to time it happens that 3 people leave and at that point there's really no point in trying to finish it.
What seems clear here is that, once again, people see time-gated, repetitive and infinite-wave queues as having "mechanics" and think that having a "DPS check" equals dining with the evil incarnate. When in reality, neither of those things are true.
These people should go do some serious raiding in any of the many MMORPGs that actually *have* raids. They'd learn a thing or two, but I guess it's easy to just go into every thread and TRIBBLE on people that think TRIBBLE like "Defense of Starbase 1" is actually a queue that requires team work... and that's just one example of MANY.
Hell, this new STF is just more time-gated afking drivel.
The problem though is that when there is something with actual mechanics... some just see enemy mobs and go "we just need to pew pew and win". I once took part in the ground competetive queue, and got stuck over the FIRST mechanic because the rest of my team was content to just shoot the infinitely spawning enemies on the other side of the chasm as if it would solve everything. I even tried to tell them to push the button so I could cross... but nope. Kill all the things and leave me standing on an invisible path with no way to cheese the system myself. Suffice to say... my team never even beat the FIRST puzzle that run. And it was the classic invisible floor puzzle too! Apparently no one knew how to push a button!
Its probably easier sometimes to see this in Core Assault or Twin Tribulations, where some may elect to just fight rather than do the mechanic in order to progress.
I'm not saying that's not the case because, obviously, it is. Another good example is Assault on Terok Nor - particularly, the fight against Leeta at the end.
But the solution is not, or shouldn't be, to simply produce more idiotic queues where team work is not required, the enemies just spawn in wave after wave until an invisible timer runs it course and the queue is over.
People must be educated on how to follow mechanics by using the appropriate tactics - yes, more than one tactic if the queue is done well enough to accomodate for more than a single team composition - not just fed more "pew pew pew, done" drivel.
But that is not happening. And after awhile, when people end up always in the same queues doing nothing more than "pew pew pew, done"... you think they're gonna believe there's anything more to be done in ANY other queue, if they happen do find themselves in them?
Frankly, it is too late for the STO player base to be taught about this thing called "game mechanics". The problem is that there are no mechanics in the story missions. For the most people, they learn how to play the game by playing through the story missions, and in most, all you have to do is run around some map (ground or space) and kill groups of enemies with the occasional "interact" objective. Thus when new players start playing TFOs, that is all they know how to do: run around and pew pew.
At this point, if Crypic made a new TFO with actual mechanics, it would be a huge flop because the vast majority of the players don't know how to deal with game mechanics, nor do they have the patience to learn how.
> @garaffe said: > (Quote) > > Frankly, it is too late for the STO player base to be taught about this thing called "game mechanics". The problem is that there are no mechanics in the story missions. For the most people, they learn how to play the game by playing through the story missions, and in most, all you have to do is run around some map (ground or space) and kill groups of enemies with the occasional "interact" objective. Thus when new players start playing TFOs, that is all they know how to do: run around and pew pew. > > At this point, if Crypic made a new TFO with actual mechanics, it would be a huge flop because the vast majority of the players don't know how to deal with game mechanics, nor do they have the patience to learn how.
You are certainly right with what you are saying but it could be easily adjusted by the rewards handed out. If they are depended on individual contribution instead of the teams‘ sum I suspect we find lots of fast learners. Works splendid in other games.
„Oh you were the only one in gravity transporting hawking particles? Well good for you!“ You get five times the reward while the rest leaves empty handed. Problem solved.
I assure you, will happen to them once, not twice.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
> @garaffe said:
> (Quote)
>
> Frankly, it is too late for the STO player base to be taught about this thing called "game mechanics". The problem is that there are no mechanics in the story missions. For the most people, they learn how to play the game by playing through the story missions, and in most, all you have to do is run around some map (ground or space) and kill groups of enemies with the occasional "interact" objective. Thus when new players start playing TFOs, that is all they know how to do: run around and pew pew.
>
> At this point, if Crypic made a new TFO with actual mechanics, it would be a huge flop because the vast majority of the players don't know how to deal with game mechanics, nor do they have the patience to learn how.
You are certainly right with what you are saying but it could be easily adjusted by the rewards handed out. If they are depended on individual contribution instead of the teams‘ sum I suspect we find lots of fast learners. Works splendid in other games.
„Oh you were the only one in gravity transporting hawking particles? Well good for you!“ You get five times the reward while the rest leaves empty handed. Problem solved.
I assure you, will happen to them once, not twice.
You may be right, but I don't think Cryptic can be bothered with such an effort. It seems very clear that they have no desire to teach their player base about mechanics one way or another. Plus, any kind of reward payout change would be a very hard sell to the player base because the majority of the players want to get rewards for just flying around pew-pewing. Those players would be enraged if all of a sudden they stopped getting full rewards.
Frankly, it is too late for the STO player base to be taught about this thing called "game mechanics". The problem is that there are no mechanics in the story missions. For the most people, they learn how to play the game by playing through the story missions, and in most, all you have to do is run around some map (ground or space) and kill groups of enemies with the occasional "interact" objective. Thus when new players start playing TFOs, that is all they know how to do: run around and pew pew.
At this point, if Crypic made a new TFO with actual mechanics, it would be a huge flop because the vast majority of the players don't know how to deal with game mechanics, nor do they have the patience to learn how.
I don't really buy this argument.
When it comes to various TFOs with mechanics, be they TFOs like Pahvo Dissension requiring you to split into 2/3 groups to cover all the lanes in time/protect the roots, or something like Operation Ripsote, or Best served Cold, where you need to protect three transport/starbases, while also chasing down incoming missiles/fleeing transports, the majority of teams I run into are perfectly able to split up and cover everything like they should. Yes, there are sometimes when you get a team of dunces who all just stack up on one station and don't bother, but that tends to be the minority.
Most people are perfectly capable to learning basic team mechanics, so long as they are properly telegraphed.
Let's be real here. The only TFOs in this game that actually have any sort of challenging team mechanics are the Omega Ground TFOs, Nukara Ground TFOs, and Competitive TFOs. Of course, those Borg Ground TFOs suffer from maps that take 10 minutes just to traverse and enemies that are too easy to kill.
Cryptic tried to include mechanics with the Borg Ground TFOs, but they were very unpopular with the player base, except for a handful of folks that enjoy that sort of thing. After that they stopped making TFOs where you actually have to work as a team to accomplish the goal until the Competitive TFOs that flopped because people hated the PVP aspect of them.
If you want team mechanics, this is not the game for you, and it never will be.
I admit my fleet used to do "Sword Runs" of Cure Ground. Was entertaining.
I think what's going on with the Mechanics thing is that we're getting mixed messages. In some cases there are mechanics, but they can be effectively ignored because of sheer DPS or seem to really have no effect on the TFO one way or the other. A big example of this I believe is in Counterpoint. Phase 2 has you ferrying strike teams over to Terok Nor from DS9 while defending DS9 and attacking Terok Nor.
I honestly don't even know what the point of sending strike teams over is. Doesn't seem to have any impact on Terok Nor's performance no matter how many teams you send over. 1 or 10... seems to have no effect.
With the Competetive TFOs, those are very obvious mechanics, but I have seen some people outright ignore them in favor of shooting all the things. In some cases another player who knows the mechanics has to explain what to do, which can be kinda hard with text only, and assuming the rest of the team actually has their chat windows open.
However one TFO that does seem to have mechanics that matter is Mirror Invasion. Closing portals, which is actually faster with Science Ships, means less enemy ships to deal with. And powering up the power stations to power up the main station, which is faster with Cruisers, means more and more things to help against the enemy ships.
Some of us Veterans know the mechanics, and many actually do the mechanics. But we've got this DPS over Mechanics mentality in a lot of the TFOs that... frankly... can be a detriment because "why bother actually doing things when you can just shoot things to win?" Even when its very obvious that is not the solution, people still do it. Either because of the whole bystander mentality of Let Someone Else Handle It or just a simple belief that All You Need is DPS... I don't know.
I agree with rattler. In most cases, the mechanics (if any) of the TFO can be easily overcome by DPS alone.
There are not very many TFOs where you literally cannot advance as a solo player, the Borg ground TFO are a great example. The only one that can be done solo is Hive ground. The rest have some mechanic that requires at least two players. I cannot think of any other TFO that cannot be completed by a solo player. Sure, a solo player won't do well in Counterpoint or Colony Defense, but the TFO will eventually complete and the player will get some minimal reward.
My point is, just giving players more objectives to complete is not the same as adding meaningful mechanics. Adding more objectives only serves to lengthen the TFO, not make it more of a challenge unless mechanics are added. Requiring the team to split up to protect multiple satelites is not a very challenging mechanic.
My point is, just giving players more objectives to complete is not the same as adding meaningful mechanics. Adding more objectives only serves to lengthen the TFO, not make it more of a challenge unless mechanics are added. Requiring the team to split up to protect multiple satelites is not a very challenging mechanic.
Especially if one of the team is coming in with a Megawell. Best strategy would be to have 2 on each side, and the Megawell in the middle. Megawell can solo the middle sat just fine.
> @garaffe said:
Requiring the team to split up to protect multiple satelites is not a very challenging mechanic.
Of course not! Unfortunately players around here consider splitting up and doing stuff individually the highest form of teamplay imaginable.
Ok... what gives! The same peep(s) want longer TFOs, just not the borg ground ones as they are too long.
The problem is we need Engaging long STFs. Like actual dungeons. You go to Swtor and you play a flashpoint, some of them are faster than others, and while all of them boil down to kill enemies in different ways they're far more engaging. There's story to the flashpoints, there's reasons behind the conflict, and the enemies are fairly unique and fun to fight most of the time.
But in STO? All of their STF's their equivalent to "dungeon" content is all super quick, or so brain dead easy it can't really be engaging. STO needs more meaningful STFs or a new form of content similar to "Dungeons". Hell STO could probably benefit from Raids. Give use some content that's long, and rewarding, maybe unique gear again.
> @garaffe said:
Requiring the team to split up to protect multiple satelites is not a very challenging mechanic.
Of course not! Unfortunately players around here consider splitting up and doing stuff individually the highest form of teamplay imaginable.
Ok... what gives! The same peep(s) want longer TFOs, just not the borg ground ones as they are too long.
The problem is we need Engaging long STFs. Like actual dungeons. You go to Swtor and you play a flashpoint, some of them are faster than others, and while all of them boil down to kill enemies in different ways they're far more engaging. There's story to the flashpoints, there's reasons behind the conflict, and the enemies are fairly unique and fun to fight most of the time.
But in STO? All of their STF's their equivalent to "dungeon" content is all super quick, or so brain dead easy it can't really be engaging. STO needs more meaningful STFs or a new form of content similar to "Dungeons". Hell STO could probably benefit from Raids. Give use some content that's long, and rewarding, maybe unique gear again.
While I agree in many things, raids, apart that they are losing in popularity(take SWTOR again as example, what % of playerbase goes for Operations and how often), due to elitism around them and the difficulty to setup, they would be hard to queue here due to population. Cause you dont need just players, but you need players in the elite side of performance so it wouldnt be to find each time 10+ players that got enough free time for a lenghty run.(only Raid I remember that wasnt lengthy was a WoW one in burning crusade which was one megaboss and nothing else). Consider also all these games based on trinity of Tank, Healer and DPS(some got Support type too) roles whereas STO had screwed that part horribly. In STO there is Weapon DPS(Tac), Space Magic DPS(Sci), and Meatsbags That Barely Can Taunt(Engineers).
While it is true that in space the trinity is pretty much bunk, its a lot more noticable on the ground. Tacs are more DPS and team buff, Sci can go "magic" DPS, Support, or Heal, and Engies can basically either spam drones, set up static turrets and generators, or actively debuff support. Sci can HP tank if set up as a healer, and Engie can Shield Tank.
I know Shield Tanking is a thing because one time I had to do it as the last man standing against Manus, as an Engie backed agaisnt a wall. Had 3 shield heals and was spamming them every chance I got, and took down Manus. I think this was just before F2P. I remember having a set Kit at the time, with I think full MACO gear, and really just the Borg STFs. I also remember being in total panic mode praying that the rest of the room didn't see me in my hidey hole while I was actively fighting Manus.
Especially if one of the team is coming in with a Megawell. Best strategy would be to have 2 on each side, and the Megawell in the middle. Megawell can solo the middle sat just fine.
All I could think of at this point when you mention "Megawell" was The Office when Dwight says "I need more Megadesk!"
I see two types of teamates on tfo's. One is the player or players that really do not know what they are doing (They don't know the game mechanics) and there has been so many examples of that in prior posts that it's not needed here. Those I can forgive and even from time to time I will try to let them know what to do so we don't all fail the mission which is not always an easy thing since you're typing and trying to stay alive at the same time.
The other is the ones that just wait in the wings doing absolutely nothing. It doesn't get me angry because I try to reason that maybe some rl issue came up just at a lousy time, it's happened to me and I understand but there are some folks that do this just so they don;t have to put any work for the mission. Worse still are the ones that purposefully try to tank the mission just to get their kicks and those I really can't abide by, it would have been better if they just left the tfo. You got those that are instant experts or cannot manage to control their frustration because somehow everyone but that player failed or didn't do 1000% in dps so we get the equivalent of their "parse report card" showing how much less dps were doing and a reprimand and or insult.
Pugging is a gamble and thankfully these types are not in every mission. Ignorance is forgivable , rudeness is less so.
J
"There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men. The words of Ten Bears carries the same iron of life and death. It is good that warriors such as we meet in the struggle of life... or death. It shall be life." - Ten Bears (Will Sampson)
The trinity system is the worst, and laziest, gameplay design system one can do. Guild Wars 2, and most other modern MMOs, got rid of it entirely, and their gameplay has been massively improved because of it.
All the trinity does is create the "looking for healer" problem where you become stuck waiting for hours for healer classes to come around to start playing.
IF STO had embraced a sandbox design along with horizontal progression mainly(I played too many sandboxes), then I would agree with you. The way things are it stands in between the systems without doing it right
I usually do not leave, because even tho I hate these queues, it wouldn't be fair to the other members of my team - of course, from time to time it happens that 3 people leave and at that point there's really no point in trying to finish it.
What seems clear here is that, once again, people see time-gated, repetitive and infinite-wave queues as having "mechanics" and think that having a "DPS check" equals dining with the evil incarnate. When in reality, neither of those things are true.
These people should go do some serious raiding in any of the many MMORPGs that actually *have* raids. They'd learn a thing or two, but I guess it's easy to just go into every thread and TRIBBLE on people that think TRIBBLE like "Defense of Starbase 1" is actually a queue that requires team work... and that's just one example of MANY.
Hell, this new STF is just more time-gated afking drivel.
The problem though is that when there is something with actual mechanics... some just see enemy mobs and go "we just need to pew pew and win". I once took part in the ground competetive queue, and got stuck over the FIRST mechanic because the rest of my team was content to just shoot the infinitely spawning enemies on the other side of the chasm as if it would solve everything. I even tried to tell them to push the button so I could cross... but nope. Kill all the things and leave me standing on an invisible path with no way to cheese the system myself. Suffice to say... my team never even beat the FIRST puzzle that run. And it was the classic invisible floor puzzle too! Apparently no one knew how to push a button!
Its probably easier sometimes to see this in Core Assault or Twin Tribulations, where some may elect to just fight rather than do the mechanic in order to progress.
I'm not saying that's not the case because, obviously, it is. Another good example is Assault on Terok Nor - particularly, the fight against Leeta at the end.
But the solution is not, or shouldn't be, to simply produce more idiotic queues where team work is not required, the enemies just spawn in wave after wave until an invisible timer runs it course and the queue is over.
People must be educated on how to follow mechanics by using the appropriate tactics - yes, more than one tactic if the queue is done well enough to accomodate for more than a single team composition - not just fed more "pew pew pew, done" drivel.
But that is not happening. And after awhile, when people end up always in the same queues doing nothing more than "pew pew pew, done"... you think they're gonna believe there's anything more to be done in ANY other queue, if they happen do find themselves in them?
Frankly, it is too late for the STO player base to be taught about this thing called "game mechanics". The problem is that there are no mechanics in the story missions. For the most people, they learn how to play the game by playing through the story missions, and in most, all you have to do is run around some map (ground or space) and kill groups of enemies with the occasional "interact" objective. Thus when new players start playing TFOs, that is all they know how to do: run around and pew pew.
At this point, if Crypic made a new TFO with actual mechanics, it would be a huge flop because the vast majority of the players don't know how to deal with game mechanics, nor do they have the patience to learn how.
Nah, see? I do not agree with this: story missions are supposed to be easy - tho the less recicled assets there are, the better - so that everyone can do them without going crazy. Of course, they should get progressively more difficult and challenging the higher the level requirement is.
It's on endgame content that the mechanics should really, truly be implemented... and maintained!
I'll give you a concrete example: in SWTOR there are a couple of Operations - Eternity Vault and Karagga's Palace - where the highest difficulty (Master Mode, or Nightmare as it was once called) has been removed a long time ago. Why? Because it was so idiotic that it didn't justify being classified as such.
Even now, you could go for them both with the instance set for 16 men in Veteran Mode (or Hard Mode) and you'll be able to complete it with only 8 people. They are still incredibly, stupidly easy.
And STILL, there *are* mechanics involved that requires the use of the appropriate tactics. And teams that go in there with no idea what to do - or people that don't listen when someone is explaining - will not go much further than the first couple of trash groups.
So, you see? Content can still be simple enough to allow even the most inexperienced people to play it, but challenging enough to still require teamwork and the use of appropriate tactics.
I do agree with you on your last sentences, tho: "the vast majority of players don't know how to deal with game mechanics, nor do they have the patience to learn how."
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
While it is true that in space the trinity is pretty much bunk, its a lot more noticable on the ground. Tacs are more DPS and team buff, Sci can go "magic" DPS, Support, or Heal, and Engies can basically either spam drones, set up static turrets and generators, or actively debuff support. Sci can HP tank if set up as a healer, and Engie can Shield Tank.
This might have been true 5 years ago, but now-a-days, everyone on ground is super, mega DPS running around with various event reward drones buzzing after them, and the obligatory Solar Gateway. There are so many universal kit mods that career path doesn't mean a thing unless you specifically set yourself use only career kit mods for RP purposes.
No, it can be set up as a support, because none of this can truly compare with a SCI properly specced and equipped.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Sure they can. Stack up on traits that lets them heal based on damage or hitting and heal by killing things at an obscene rate. It's been a while...but I do have a tact captain that does that.
That's not being a healer. That's pretty much passive self healing. I mean kit modules so you can heal others.
Comments
> (Quote)
>
> You really get off on spoiling people's fun, don't you?
Oh yep. Still waiting for the day he realizes peeps could be playing Infected Space just for fun as it is now and always has been.
The final score in some combatlog is such a small part of it all. 😏
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
> (Quote)
>
> I do it sometimes for the fun of it and not even run a combatlog. Sometimes blowing up helpless borg is just what you wanna do.
Exactly. Still the same joy from back at the day when we had no parsers around.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I'm not saying that's not the case because, obviously, it is. Another good example is Assault on Terok Nor - particularly, the fight against Leeta at the end.
But the solution is not, or shouldn't be, to simply produce more idiotic queues where team work is not required, the enemies just spawn in wave after wave until an invisible timer runs it course and the queue is over.
People must be educated on how to follow mechanics by using the appropriate tactics - yes, more than one tactic if the queue is done well enough to accomodate for more than a single team composition - not just fed more "pew pew pew, done" drivel.
But that is not happening. And after awhile, when people end up always in the same queues doing nothing more than "pew pew pew, done"... you think they're gonna believe there's anything more to be done in ANY other queue, if they happen do find themselves in them?
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Frankly, it is too late for the STO player base to be taught about this thing called "game mechanics". The problem is that there are no mechanics in the story missions. For the most people, they learn how to play the game by playing through the story missions, and in most, all you have to do is run around some map (ground or space) and kill groups of enemies with the occasional "interact" objective. Thus when new players start playing TFOs, that is all they know how to do: run around and pew pew.
At this point, if Crypic made a new TFO with actual mechanics, it would be a huge flop because the vast majority of the players don't know how to deal with game mechanics, nor do they have the patience to learn how.
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> Frankly, it is too late for the STO player base to be taught about this thing called "game mechanics". The problem is that there are no mechanics in the story missions. For the most people, they learn how to play the game by playing through the story missions, and in most, all you have to do is run around some map (ground or space) and kill groups of enemies with the occasional "interact" objective. Thus when new players start playing TFOs, that is all they know how to do: run around and pew pew.
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> At this point, if Crypic made a new TFO with actual mechanics, it would be a huge flop because the vast majority of the players don't know how to deal with game mechanics, nor do they have the patience to learn how.
You are certainly right with what you are saying but it could be easily adjusted by the rewards handed out. If they are depended on individual contribution instead of the teams‘ sum I suspect we find lots of fast learners. Works splendid in other games.
„Oh you were the only one in gravity transporting hawking particles? Well good for you!“ You get five times the reward while the rest leaves empty handed. Problem solved.
I assure you, will happen to them once, not twice.
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You may be right, but I don't think Cryptic can be bothered with such an effort. It seems very clear that they have no desire to teach their player base about mechanics one way or another. Plus, any kind of reward payout change would be a very hard sell to the player base because the majority of the players want to get rewards for just flying around pew-pewing. Those players would be enraged if all of a sudden they stopped getting full rewards.
Let's be real here. The only TFOs in this game that actually have any sort of challenging team mechanics are the Omega Ground TFOs, Nukara Ground TFOs, and Competitive TFOs. Of course, those Borg Ground TFOs suffer from maps that take 10 minutes just to traverse and enemies that are too easy to kill.
Cryptic tried to include mechanics with the Borg Ground TFOs, but they were very unpopular with the player base, except for a handful of folks that enjoy that sort of thing. After that they stopped making TFOs where you actually have to work as a team to accomplish the goal until the Competitive TFOs that flopped because people hated the PVP aspect of them.
If you want team mechanics, this is not the game for you, and it never will be.
I think what's going on with the Mechanics thing is that we're getting mixed messages. In some cases there are mechanics, but they can be effectively ignored because of sheer DPS or seem to really have no effect on the TFO one way or the other. A big example of this I believe is in Counterpoint. Phase 2 has you ferrying strike teams over to Terok Nor from DS9 while defending DS9 and attacking Terok Nor.
I honestly don't even know what the point of sending strike teams over is. Doesn't seem to have any impact on Terok Nor's performance no matter how many teams you send over. 1 or 10... seems to have no effect.
With the Competetive TFOs, those are very obvious mechanics, but I have seen some people outright ignore them in favor of shooting all the things. In some cases another player who knows the mechanics has to explain what to do, which can be kinda hard with text only, and assuming the rest of the team actually has their chat windows open.
However one TFO that does seem to have mechanics that matter is Mirror Invasion. Closing portals, which is actually faster with Science Ships, means less enemy ships to deal with. And powering up the power stations to power up the main station, which is faster with Cruisers, means more and more things to help against the enemy ships.
Some of us Veterans know the mechanics, and many actually do the mechanics. But we've got this DPS over Mechanics mentality in a lot of the TFOs that... frankly... can be a detriment because "why bother actually doing things when you can just shoot things to win?" Even when its very obvious that is not the solution, people still do it. Either because of the whole bystander mentality of Let Someone Else Handle It or just a simple belief that All You Need is DPS... I don't know.
There are not very many TFOs where you literally cannot advance as a solo player, the Borg ground TFO are a great example. The only one that can be done solo is Hive ground. The rest have some mechanic that requires at least two players. I cannot think of any other TFO that cannot be completed by a solo player. Sure, a solo player won't do well in Counterpoint or Colony Defense, but the TFO will eventually complete and the player will get some minimal reward.
My point is, just giving players more objectives to complete is not the same as adding meaningful mechanics. Adding more objectives only serves to lengthen the TFO, not make it more of a challenge unless mechanics are added. Requiring the team to split up to protect multiple satelites is not a very challenging mechanic.
Especially if one of the team is coming in with a Megawell. Best strategy would be to have 2 on each side, and the Megawell in the middle. Megawell can solo the middle sat just fine.
Requiring the team to split up to protect multiple satelites is not a very challenging mechanic.
Of course not! Unfortunately players around here consider splitting up and doing stuff individually the highest form of teamplay imaginable.
Ok... what gives! The same peep(s) want longer TFOs, just not the borg ground ones as they are too long.
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The problem is we need Engaging long STFs. Like actual dungeons. You go to Swtor and you play a flashpoint, some of them are faster than others, and while all of them boil down to kill enemies in different ways they're far more engaging. There's story to the flashpoints, there's reasons behind the conflict, and the enemies are fairly unique and fun to fight most of the time.
But in STO? All of their STF's their equivalent to "dungeon" content is all super quick, or so brain dead easy it can't really be engaging. STO needs more meaningful STFs or a new form of content similar to "Dungeons". Hell STO could probably benefit from Raids. Give use some content that's long, and rewarding, maybe unique gear again.
While I agree in many things, raids, apart that they are losing in popularity(take SWTOR again as example, what % of playerbase goes for Operations and how often), due to elitism around them and the difficulty to setup, they would be hard to queue here due to population. Cause you dont need just players, but you need players in the elite side of performance so it wouldnt be to find each time 10+ players that got enough free time for a lenghty run.(only Raid I remember that wasnt lengthy was a WoW one in burning crusade which was one megaboss and nothing else). Consider also all these games based on trinity of Tank, Healer and DPS(some got Support type too) roles whereas STO had screwed that part horribly. In STO there is Weapon DPS(Tac), Space Magic DPS(Sci), and Meatsbags That Barely Can Taunt(Engineers).
I know Shield Tanking is a thing because one time I had to do it as the last man standing against Manus, as an Engie backed agaisnt a wall. Had 3 shield heals and was spamming them every chance I got, and took down Manus. I think this was just before F2P. I remember having a set Kit at the time, with I think full MACO gear, and really just the Borg STFs. I also remember being in total panic mode praying that the rest of the room didn't see me in my hidey hole while I was actively fighting Manus.
All I could think of at this point when you mention "Megawell" was The Office when Dwight says "I need more Megadesk!"
I see two types of teamates on tfo's. One is the player or players that really do not know what they are doing (They don't know the game mechanics) and there has been so many examples of that in prior posts that it's not needed here. Those I can forgive and even from time to time I will try to let them know what to do so we don't all fail the mission which is not always an easy thing since you're typing and trying to stay alive at the same time.
The other is the ones that just wait in the wings doing absolutely nothing. It doesn't get me angry because I try to reason that maybe some rl issue came up just at a lousy time, it's happened to me and I understand but there are some folks that do this just so they don;t have to put any work for the mission. Worse still are the ones that purposefully try to tank the mission just to get their kicks and those I really can't abide by, it would have been better if they just left the tfo. You got those that are instant experts or cannot manage to control their frustration because somehow everyone but that player failed or didn't do 1000% in dps so we get the equivalent of their "parse report card" showing how much less dps were doing and a reprimand and or insult.
Pugging is a gamble and thankfully these types are not in every mission. Ignorance is forgivable , rudeness is less so.
J
IF STO had embraced a sandbox design along with horizontal progression mainly(I played too many sandboxes), then I would agree with you. The way things are it stands in between the systems without doing it right
Nah, see? I do not agree with this: story missions are supposed to be easy - tho the less recicled assets there are, the better - so that everyone can do them without going crazy. Of course, they should get progressively more difficult and challenging the higher the level requirement is.
It's on endgame content that the mechanics should really, truly be implemented... and maintained!
I'll give you a concrete example: in SWTOR there are a couple of Operations - Eternity Vault and Karagga's Palace - where the highest difficulty (Master Mode, or Nightmare as it was once called) has been removed a long time ago. Why? Because it was so idiotic that it didn't justify being classified as such.
Even now, you could go for them both with the instance set for 16 men in Veteran Mode (or Hard Mode) and you'll be able to complete it with only 8 people. They are still incredibly, stupidly easy.
And STILL, there *are* mechanics involved that requires the use of the appropriate tactics. And teams that go in there with no idea what to do - or people that don't listen when someone is explaining - will not go much further than the first couple of trash groups.
So, you see? Content can still be simple enough to allow even the most inexperienced people to play it, but challenging enough to still require teamwork and the use of appropriate tactics.
I do agree with you on your last sentences, tho: "the vast majority of players don't know how to deal with game mechanics, nor do they have the patience to learn how."
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
This might have been true 5 years ago, but now-a-days, everyone on ground is super, mega DPS running around with various event reward drones buzzing after them, and the obligatory Solar Gateway. There are so many universal kit mods that career path doesn't mean a thing unless you specifically set yourself use only career kit mods for RP purposes.
Hmmm... Let's see. There are the following Kit modules exclusive to Tactical players:
- Rally Cry which gives the team a heal over time.
- Motivation which which gives the team on-hit healing.
Going into specializations, we have the following kit modules:- Throw Regenerative Nanite Canister (Miracle Worker), a heal over time grenade.
- Harmonized Shields (Miracle Worker), a PBAoE shield heal over time + damage resistance.
- Overwhelm Shields (Command) which gives shield healing to those who attack the marked target.
Therefore, Tactical can be set up as a healer.Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
That's not being a healer. That's pretty much passive self healing. I mean kit modules so you can heal others.