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Alex Kurtzman And CBS Planning Star Trek TV Through 2027, Including More ‘Discovery’ Seasons
lordgyor
Member Posts: 2,820 Arc User
in Ten Forward
lordgyor
Member Posts: 2,820 Arc User
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This is how Hollywood works, now. Get fired for wrecking a series, and keep the same job, or get a better one.
Politicians, weather forecasters and bad TV/Movie producers are those folks who never seem to get fired for TRIBBLE up.
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> This is how Hollywood works, now. Get fired for wrecking a series, and keep the same job, or get a better one.
> Politicians, weather forecasters and bad TV/Movie producers are those folks who never seem to get fired for TRIBBLE up.
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You missed the point, its clear Star Trek is thriving and the forecasts of doom were BS.
What "forecasts of doom"? Except for Angrytarg's joke no one said anything about doom and gloom in the thread so far.
Probably from sources like Doomcock and Midnight's Edge on YouTube. The usual suspects who like to claim they have insider knowledge but are just so blatantly biased to the point they wish doom on anything they don't like.
That's why I prefer YouTubers who actually state that their views are their own opinions and not word of god truth. Because the doomsayers are only doing it for clicks and probably just to rile people up for their own amusement. Either that or they just love the attention it gets them.
Actually Kurtzman does say that Star Trek was too intellectual, just a few weeks ago while rummaging around YouTube and other video sources I saw a behind the scenes clip where he said it. Like Abrams, Kurtzman is more for action, eye candy, and simple linear plots that highlight the stunts and SFX.
To be fair, Kurtzman is not the first person to make that complaint, NBC executives said exactly the same thing numerous times about TOS during its run and pushed for more fights (and movie critics later made the same criticism about TMP). They wanted it to be more like a "wild west" show despite the fact that Wagon Train, the most popular western of the time (and the one Roddenberry used to sell NBC on Star Trek in the first place) had the least amount of gratuitous violence and bar fights of any of the westerns airing around that time.
That said, CBS turning Star Trek into a shallow diet version of action movies like Fast and Furious (or the Kelvin Trek stuff) and either ignoring or misunderstanding the older Treks (Kurtzman does both at various times, and even talks about "you have to ignore the old to make something good" or words to that effect) is not the way you add to a story that has been going on for fifty years. It is no wonder that fans of the older shows often see Discovery as a kind of back-door reboot (and even a slap in the face in the case of the purists), and why people say Moonves ordered a Star Trek series meant for people who hate Star Trek.
Look up video interviews of Kurtzman and watch his body language as he talks. It is plain that he does not understand Star Trek and does not really know why the core Trek fans have so many problems with DSC. And to properly change something you really do need to understand it first.
Also, contrast DSC with Lower Decks where the creative staff do understand it, there is a huge difference.
and WEATHER FORCASTORS, crappy producers like Kurtzman don't get fired for messing up things.
THAT is what I said.
THANK YOU!
And yes, Kurtzman DID say that. *sticks tongue out at jonsiles* When the producer of a show, or series, says, right at you, that what he or she is now the head of was TOO INTELLIGENT for him and her.....WHY have him or her BE the producer? And one does NOT need to TRIBBLE all over something fans have loved for many years, just to reign in new fans from the 'average joe' and 'plain jane' brigades, who only care, as said above, for action, eye candy, and simple plots and overused CG.
The Lord of the Rings films shown one can cater to BOTH, just takes a some hard work, creativity and, most importantly, LOVE for what you are making. I found Disco and Picard rubbish....Lower Decks, apart from Beyond, is the first official Trek I actually ENJOYED since 2005.
Stop with the McDonald's mentality of making shows and films, as in pumping out tons of cheap rubbish....quantity over quality seems to be the new normal, which is not good.
Hence why I am a big supporter of fan films and so on.
Hollywood, on the whole, has convinced themselves that anyone who doesn't like the smell of their droppings is a troll and should not only be ignored but disrespected, while they meanwhile can't do anything new at all, just rehash and retell old stories that were better told the first time.
Y'all keep treating your opinions not merely as fact, but as Holy Writ, immune from any challenge whatsoever. And the "original Star Trek" that you appeal to in your purism is a myth. I grew up watching TOS, first on NBC then later in syndication. I love the show. It informs my character and life to this day. But it was far from the Perfect Show to which people appeal - plenty of intra-Starfleet conflict, especially when a flag officer boarded the Enterprise (the beginning of All Admirals Are Evil). The first season or so of TNG had some issues, IMO, but most can be dismissed as growing pains (and the real clinkers, like "Justice" or "Code of Honor", are at least no worse than "Spock's Brain" or "The Omega Glory"). DS9's first season seemed a bit clunky at first, but in retrospect only felt that way because the gears were shifting - IMO, it's still overall the best that Trek has done yet.
And both PIC and DSC are, in my opinion, examples of "hopepunk" - starting from a pretty screwed-up world, they demonstrate that hope is not hopeless, that it's still possible to reach the light and that golden future. Yeah, the very first episode of DSC started with a mutiny - for which the mutineer was punished; she was "rescued" only by someone who wanted to use her to his own ends, and in the end she rejected his machinations, finishing out the season with a speech worthy of Kirk (not quite Picard-level, but then Sonequa Martin-Green doesn't quite have the inherent gravitas of Sir Patrick Stewart, at least not yet). And speaking of Sir Pat, if you managed to actually follow the story of PIC (there's a reason the season was so short, it was only telling the one story), you'll note that in the end, in true Picard fashion, they headed off violence with speeches. (Yes, Riker got his Bearded Badass moment, but without the Picard Speech that stopped the synths, it would have been just another moment of braggadocio). You might also have noted that when the Federation realized that the issue with the synths wasn't "rebellion" but hacking, all was forgiven very nearly immediately, in true Trek style.
I mean, sure, in order to get to those conclusions you need to actually pay attention for more than 48 minutes, but longer-term attention can be quite rewarding. Did you give up on Avengers: Endgame because Thor started off as a self-pitying slob, without seeing him rise to the occasion later? Can someone even get the ending of Return of the Jedi, and why it's a Big Damn Heroes moment for Anakin, if they can't recall what happened in A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back?
Now, it's possible to understand all this and still not find a given series to your liking; personally, I find VOY to be an endless expanse of missed opportunities, cringeworthy "science", and incredibly bad world-building. But I'm not going to dismiss VOY as "not really Star Trek", nor its existence as evidence that "they" don't care about the complaints of "real fans" like me. To me, the essence of the "real Trek fan" is contained in the philosophy of IDIC - Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations. Sometimes those combinations will seem dissonant to some. That doesn't make them "bad", just not for you.
And I would also like to point out that any "No True Scotsman" arguments of "If you're a True Fan you would support x opinion" doesn't apply at all to Trek. You can be a Fan and say... like Star Trek V over Star Trek II. The fact remains that it is Star Trek. And EVERY fan will have an opinion that may differ from another's. Doesn't mean their opinion isn't valid because they like something that others don't.
Star Trek Discovery is different. But that doesn't mean its any less Trek than Deep Space Nine.
Star Trek Picard is different. But that doesn't make it any less Trek than The Next Generation.
Instead of looking at what they aren't... why not look at what they add to the universe as a whole? Discovery added new ship designs to an era that pretty much only had one canon design (Connie) and multiple non canon designs based on her. We wouldn't have ships like the Cardenas or Shepard without Discovery.
Picard gave us a look at the Trek Universe from a perspective outside of Starfleet, and how one event actually had lasting effects on not only a species (Romulans), but an individual as well (Picard).
Star Trek is big enough to try new things. Not everything has to be carbon copies of TOS. It can have something for everyone. Not just the old school superfans.
And word is that Strange New Worlds will be more like TOS in terms of format, being episodic rather than have an overall arc. And frankly Anson Mount hit it out of the park as Captain Pike. We wouldn't have that without Discovery.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Its pretty much tradition that it takes a Trek series a season or two in order to find its footing. Was true with DS9, Voyager, and maybe even Enterprise.
I do enjoy Star Trek Discovery, and I love both Star Trek Picard and Star Trek Lower Decks, and I'm looking forward to Star Trek Strange New Worlds, they're not perfect, but neither has any Star Trek series before, and like rattler2 said, I don't judge them on what they aren't, for not being perfect or measuring up to my idea of perfection, but I take them for that they are and what they add to Star Trek, and I like to see how they can improve themselves and be better.
- Jean-Luc Picard
I was fine with most of season 1.
And Lower Deck's NAILED it the first season.
There are always exceptions, and some may disagree with your assessment of Lower Decks for their own reasons. As I have not seen it, only a few scenes on YouTube, I am neutral. However others may object simply on the grounds of Animated = Garbage, or they feel that certain characters should be driven out of Starfleet, or some other explanation they can come up with.
But the fact remains that history shows that for the most part its always taken a Star Trek series 1-2 seasons to get its footing. Happened with TNG, DS9, and Voyager. Enterprise probably 1-2 depending on who you ask.
One of the main criticizms of DSC s1 was the look of the Klingons. Now look at s2. They not only smoothed out L'Rell's features, brought in the iconic D7, and they gave the Klingons their hair back. And wow... they look more like TNG style, which would fit in with the Augment Virus NOT affecting the entire Empire. And it is entirely possible that we will see TOS style Klingons in SNW. And s2 ep1 was very much Trek. Anson Mount nailed it as Pike, and brought in something that was missing with Lorca.
Was it absolutely perfect? No. But nothing is perfect really. There will always be something that someone doesn't like. But at the end of the day... it doesn't matter if its perfect or not. We're not here for absolute perfection. We're here because we enjoy Star Trek. We may not agree on certain aspects, but overall we like Trek.
DSC and PIC are a different story for me. I watched the episodes for both shows all the way through. It never caught on with me and felt like a sort of agony to get through them. While watching them, I never felt I was watching Star Trek, but a new sci-fi show. It also appears to want to re-write or change what was done in the past and create something different in the process.
I like Lower Decks right from the beginning and feel its place right along with TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT. It feels connected with all of these. I feel DSC and PIC are totally different shows.
All of these are just my feelings and opinions. I have hope Lower Decks keeps going on the path it is going and the new Capt Pike show brings back the essence of the shows prior to DSC.
This is the same effect that has impacted most current comic books and other big film franchises such as Star Wars. The nostalgia wave is not always the same for everyone, and there are many popular creators like Kurtzman who also never understood or "got" what made fans love the original properties. So, Alex and many others trade upon the established name of something for the glamor or glory of it all, but clearly wished to do almost anything but the property itself. That is fine. It is a different day, a different era, and frankly things never quite stay the same as is.
What bugs me, is the disingenuity Alex and his peers manifest when their efforts split fandom, like I said, I get that he didn't care for much of the original and wanted to chart his own course; but why pretend that he is confused over why few others share his high regard for his own spin on things?
Discovery may run additional seasons, but I actually could not care less for that show if I tried. Disco is for somebody else other than me, and may they enjoy it.
No you don't understand. That's fine. If most people like nuTrek, great. Good for them. They should make as much of it as they can afford to.
The key word in what I said was "respect." People don't like it, voice their dissent, and get utterly disrespected, or even worse they have claimed some part of their shows are there to denigrate people based on who they voted for IRL. There is some absolutely disgusting infection in the entertainment industry with a total lack of respect for the people that are buying their product and voicing their opinions on it if they aren't in lockstep with the creators or "professional" critics.
I was taught if someone came into your business and even if they were angry and ranting about how bad your product was, even if they were completely wrong, you were expected to be polite and professional to them, not to smear and slander them or even just get into a shouting match.
If you go into McDonald's and you don't care for their latest food item, is it on offer because McDonald's doesn't respect their customers and is willing to absorb the losses just to spite them? Or is it because enough other people enjoy it that they'll keep it on the menu? (The fate of the McLean Deluxe might be instructive in this regard.)
Nobody's dissing you for disliking the new series, only for insisting that yours is the only "correct" viewpoint on the matter, and that the "real" Trekkies all agree with you. And no, contrary to what some folks insist, the creators of the new Trek don't "hate" old Trek. Storytelling styles have shifted over the past half-century, is all - particularly with streaming and binging making season-long storylines more practical. SNW will see if the days of the "one-and-done" episodic series are over with, or if there's still a future for that style (I hope it works, personally), but the existence of one type of story doesn't invalidate the existence of others, just as the existence of novels doesn't automatically invalidate the concept of the short story and vice versa.
Also, don't confuse "not bowing to my whims" with "a lack of respect". You're a consumer, not a customer. Besides, anyone who parrots the phrase "the customer is always right" clearly never worked a day in customer service - frequently, the customer is dead wrong, wants things that can't be gotten, and gets upset because reality interferes with desire. (Cf https://notalwaysright.com/.)
As far as DS9, there's just about every plot line involving Kira, Weyoun, Brunt, etc. You get recurring characters every half-dozen episodes, seemingly!
But short little "mini-arcs", even in the background, just help the universe feel more real, the characters more relatable, etc. If Strange New Worlds can do that, that would be fantastic.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
We may have at least one that is in the background for the whole series, Pike knowing his ultimate fate and how he moves forward with that knowledge. How that will play into other things, we'll have to see.
What are you replying to? Its clearly not a reply to what I wrote.
Where did I insist I was right about nuTrek? Where did I claim anything about how many people agree with me or say anything disparaging about people who disagree? Where did I claim anything invalidates anything else? Where did I say the customer is always right?
I'll give you a pass on the respect thing because I was vague about it, but coldnapalm understood what I was saying. No I wasn't talking about anyone here disrespecting me, I was talking about the people involved in the show itself and the disrespect shown to fans who aren't happy about the direction they've taken Trek. Its not about continuing to make a product they don't like, its about treating them like trash.
For instance, do you remember the Discovery interview where they said something about the nuKlingons being based on Orange Man supporters? It didn't even make sense, number one, but it was a completely unwarranted jab at a large group of people for no reason whatsoever! What kind of clown insults 60m potential customers?
No if I go in to McDs and tell them I don't like their food, they will say, "Sorry you don't like it, please tell us what you don't like! We value your feedback." They aren't going to say "F*** off [1930s socialist] ****phobe!"
Not a single episode is available to stream anywhere either, cause of region restrictions..
Seems just like most of the Star Trek Online contests, new Star Trek is for North America only...
However, I can see that both of you really enjoy moving the goalposts in your hatred of the new, so yeah, enjoy your echo chamber, it's time for me to check out of this particular convo (there's enough in reality to raise my blood pressure, I don't need to have it happen in cyberspace too).
My 2 ECs on that. Ready to move on.